L. Randolph interview recording, 1994 July 12

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Paul Ortiz	Mr. Randolph, can you tell me when and where you were born and a little bit about the area that you grew up in?	0:02
L.M. Randolph	I was born in Bullock County, Alabama. Grew up in Hurtsboro, Alabama. Now Bullock County, the community was Guerryton, G-U-E-R-R-Y-T-O-N. Little town of Guerryton. It's a community, really.	0:11
Paul Ortiz	What was it like to grow up in Guerryton?	0:31
L.M. Randolph	Well, I didn't grow up in Guerryton. I was born there. I left there when I was about four or five. We lived on a plantation, basically with my grandmother.	0:35
Paul Ortiz	Do you have brothers and sisters?	0:48
L.M. Randolph	No, I don't. On my mother's side, none. But on my father's side, I have three.	1:00
Paul Ortiz	What was the plantation like? Were there other families that lived there?	1:10
L.M. Randolph	Oh, yes. I guess it was about 10 or 12 different families on that plantation.	1:15
Paul Ortiz	How were the relations with the owner?	1:25
L.M. Randolph	Well, I guess you would say casual, but he had someone to ride over the plantation, see that work was going on. I guess you'll call that an overseer. I think that's what they call them, overseers.	1:31
Paul Ortiz	And now this was in Guerryton?	1:47
L.M. Randolph	Guerryton. I soon left there, but I remember that much.	1:49
Paul Ortiz	What kinds of crops were—	1:55
L.M. Randolph	Yes, cotton, corn, peas, peanuts, potatoes, rice, and a little tobacco.	1:58
Paul Ortiz	Were you able to grow some of these things for your own consumption?	2:17
L.M. Randolph	Oh, yes. I believe the first year, we had independent farming really. But we had to pay so much for tilling, using the land. I think we paid a bale of cotton. But the rest of the stuff—	2:24
Paul Ortiz	Did your grandmother own a mule?	2:44
L.M. Randolph	Yes.	2:47
Paul Ortiz	Now you mentioned the overseer. Was the overseer armed?	2:52
L.M. Randolph	No, he was not armed.	2:59
Paul Ortiz	Do you have memories of him? Was he particularly a rough person?	3:06
L.M. Randolph	No, he would just come by and see if you were working and if the crops were clean, anything of that nature. As I recall, fairly decent person.	3:12
Paul Ortiz	Were there cases where people had trouble growing crops or might might've gotten behind the payments?	3:30
L.M. Randolph	Well, no. There were years, as my grandmother said after we left there, that if the cotton didn't make enough cotton for the next year, you would still be in debt going on over. Some never got out of debt, even though it didn't matter how much they made. (laughs) You almost made it, he would say, you almost got out of it. You work a little harder next year, you make it. (laughs) And that was hysterical.	3:42
Paul Ortiz	Looking back on that, do you think that there was some questionable techniques used to basically to settle up with the landlord?	4:14
L.M. Randolph	Well, he kept the record. You had no record. So he kept it and he always would come up, a few got out of debt each year, but very few.	4:29
Paul Ortiz	So he would keep the record.	4:44
L.M. Randolph	Right.	4:46
Paul Ortiz	Did you know of anybody or hear of anybody in Guerryton or during your childhood who said, "This doesn't seem right. I made more than you're telling me." Or may have questioned.	4:46
L.M. Randolph	Well, some really questioned. Really just questioned it. Some really questioned it, and he would get a little angry. I remember I had an uncle he made to move because of his questioning.	5:01
Paul Ortiz	So if you questioned, you were—	5:18
L.M. Randolph	Well, I imagine you were evicted or run off, so to speak.	5:24
Paul Ortiz	How would people be run off?	5:28
L.M. Randolph	Well, you had to go.	5:31
Paul Ortiz	I see. What kinds of values did your grandmother instill in you when you were growing up?	5:32
L.M. Randolph	Well, when we moved to Hurtsboro, I started to school, my mother and my grandmother always said—There was an old man, let me back up a minute. Before we left Guerryton, there was old man called Albertus Thomas, who, let me see how my grandma put it, he was one of the fellas in the big house. He was taught to read and write, and he taught all the boss's children. He would always tell me, he'd say, "Son, learn to read and write when you grow up, because someday you hear people talking and if you can't read and write, you won't know what they're talking about." I never will forget that.	5:48
Paul Ortiz	And he was Black?	6:35
L.M. Randolph	Yes, he was. Today, I imagine you would call that a butler. He was a butler.	6:36
Paul Ortiz	What was medical care like in Guerryton on a plantation? Say if you got sick or came down with fever.	6:49
L.M. Randolph	Well, basically there were so many home remedies in those days. There was a couple doctors in Hurtsboro you could go to, which is about four or five miles away. The doctor would come through sometime.	7:00
Paul Ortiz	Would your grandmother prepare home remedies?	7:18
L.M. Randolph	Oh yes. Oh yes.	7:20
Paul Ortiz	What kinds of remedies would she—	7:22
L.M. Randolph	Well, she knew just about every area in the book. I don't know any of them, but she knew them and most of them were effective. I think basically we're going to some of those now.	7:25
Paul Ortiz	Mm-hmm. Kind of turning back to them.	7:36
L.M. Randolph	Yeah.	7:40
Paul Ortiz	Was there ever occasions or special events or celebrations in Guerryton that would bring people together?	7:43
L.M. Randolph	Oh, well, every Sunday there was a church meeting, and then we had picnics on Saturday afternoon, ball games of that nature. There were a revival meeting at the two churches. There were two churches in the community, two Black churches in the community, had revival every year. That's two weeks, each one had two weeks of revival.	7:53
Paul Ortiz	Do you remember the names of those churches?	8:16
L.M. Randolph	St. Mark AME and Calvary Missionary Baptist.	8:25
Paul Ortiz	And your family went to?	8:43
L.M. Randolph	St. Mark.	8:45
Paul Ortiz	St. Mark. Was there any difference in the congregations? Was it just a matter of the distance and getting to church?	8:46
L.M. Randolph	Well, just different churches. One Methodist and one Baptist. But we'd alternate. Our church had a meeting twice a month. The Baptists had once a month. And so wherever the meeting was, that's where the people went.	8:56
Paul Ortiz	Oh, okay. So you'd go back and forth.	9:08
L.M. Randolph	Right.	9:08
Paul Ortiz	I see. As a young boy, do you remember any particular revival as being more exciting or maybe a visiting speaker that came that was more—?	9:18
L.M. Randolph	Oh yes. I remember the Reverend O.E. Folson. My grandma said he could preach horns off the billy goat. Doesn't matter where he would come, you couldn't hardly get near the church. He just got that kind of a crowd draw.	9:27
Paul Ortiz	I see. What were some of your earliest childhood memories in Guerryton? Or perhaps even [indistinct 00:10:10]?	9:50
L.M. Randolph	Well, not too many in Guerryton, but as I say, I grew up in Hurtsboro, where I went to school till I finished high school in Hurtsboro.	10:09
Paul Ortiz	So you moved to Hurtsboro when you were—	10:20
L.M. Randolph	About five, I guess.	10:21
Paul Ortiz	Five. Okay. What was the neighborhood like that you moved into?	10:30
L.M. Randolph	Very nice. Black as usual, but it's in an area where Blacks had really tried to do things. Everybody owned land over there.	10:33
Paul Ortiz	Oh, really? Did your grandmother own land?	10:50
L.M. Randolph	Right.	10:52
Paul Ortiz	Okay. So was this an area that was considered, it was considered to be kind of an upwardly mobile community?	10:52
L.M. Randolph	Right.	11:00
Paul Ortiz	Were there businesses?	11:01
L.M. Randolph	Yes, both Black and White business. We had cafes, barber shops, cleaning establishment, shoe establishment, clothing establishment. Surprisingly, but we did.	11:02
Paul Ortiz	Were there Black organizations, fraternal lodges?	11:13
L.M. Randolph	We had the Eastern Star for women and the Masons for men.	11:26
Paul Ortiz	Okay.	11:35
L.M. Randolph	And there's the York Rite, which is an arm of the Mason. York Rite, which is arm of the Mason.	11:36
Paul Ortiz	Can you tell me a little bit about your school that you attended? Was this a public school?	11:49
L.M. Randolph	Yes, it was.	11:56
Paul Ortiz	Okay. How many months out of year would you attend school?	12:03
L.M. Randolph	To begin with it was about five months a year. In fact at that time there were two schools, two Black schools, one on the north side on the south side. I lived on the south side. In 1927 the people got together, the two sides got together to consolidate the schools. They raised money from every source they possibly could. There was a Mr. M. H. Griffin of Montgomery who was in charge of the Rosenwald Fund at that time, Rosenwald Fund. Raised enough money that we built the Rosenwald School, became the consolidated school. All those kids all over the little town went to that one school. That started in 19, I believe that was 1928.	12:19
Paul Ortiz	1928. So you were in second grade?	13:11
L.M. Randolph	No, I was about fifth grade.	13:20
Paul Ortiz	Oh, fifth grade.	13:22
L.M. Randolph	It was about fifth grade, fifth or sixth grade, somewhere along in there. Because I finished there in '36. In 1929 became the Russell County Training School.	13:24
Paul Ortiz	How would you get your books for school?	13:42
L.M. Randolph	We had to buy them.	13:45
Paul Ortiz	What were the teachers like? Were they teachers from the North or were they teachers from the South?	13:57
L.M. Randolph	Local.	14:02
Paul Ortiz	Local teachers.	14:02
L.M. Randolph	Local teachers. I say local, but from—area, they're in the area. Because one one from Union Spring, which is in Bullock County, one from Phenix City, one from Montgomery, I remember. When we consolidated, Professor Griffin was from Tuskegee. He was consolidating principal.	14:03
Paul Ortiz	Okay. Were these teachers who would've graduated perhaps from Alabama State Normal?	14:27
L.M. Randolph	No, Alabama, what do they call it, State Normal I believe at that time. It was basically a high school, first-class high school and junior college. I remember the teacher would go each summer, they would go down there and spend eight weeks in summer school upgrading their skills each summer.	14:36
Paul Ortiz	What were your favorite subjects in school?	15:03
L.M. Randolph	History and math.	15:07
Paul Ortiz	Were there any particular historical figures or people or events that you became well-versed in or people you admired?	15:11
L.M. Randolph	Well, I like to always think of Richard Allen, W.E.B. Dubois. Those two of my favorite. There was several more, but those come to mind immediately. Walter White, he was president of the NAACP at that time. I guess you called it president. Director of the NAACP Walter White.	15:24
Paul Ortiz	Was there any a chapter of the NAACP in Hurtsboro?	15:55
L.M. Randolph	Hurtsboro, yes. The school organized one for the kids. Right.	15:59
Paul Ortiz	Oh, the kids organized one.	16:04
L.M. Randolph	Mm-hmm. And the adults got in it, too. See, we prescribed just a quarter to be in it. Just one quarter.	16:07
Paul Ortiz	What year did you organize that?	16:16
L.M. Randolph	Well, I believe that was about '32.	16:18
Paul Ortiz	So you were in about eighth grade or you were in—	16:22
L.M. Randolph	Right.	16:24
Paul Ortiz	Okay. Now what led up to this? This is—	16:27
L.M. Randolph	Well, there were several events that happened in, I never forget one incident that happened in North Carolina. It was in the paper. A young Black was standing on the street. He looked across the street, and he saw a White girl. They arrested him. They said they knew what he was thinking just from one across the street to the other. That was in the Montgomery Advertiser. I read that then. A few other incidents like that. One incident happened in Hurtsboro, that they tried to lynch a young man.	16:30
L.M. Randolph	Of course, we blocked it by getting together ourselves. Then we decided that we needed a strong organization to help. I'm trying to think who came to Hurtsboro. I can't—A young man, I don't know his name now, but he had a paper called The Emancipator. He said, "I saw it in The Emancipator." He came in, I can't even think of, I wish I could think of his name, but he came.	17:06
Paul Ortiz	Now the Whites in that area actually tried to lynch somebody.	17:47
L.M. Randolph	Oh yes. Tried to beat him up.	17:51
Paul Ortiz	Was this a student?	17:55
L.M. Randolph	No, he was a young man. He wasn't a student. I guess he's about 20 years old.	17:56
Paul Ortiz	Had he been accused of any particular incident?	18:03
L.M. Randolph	I can't remember what the—I know the boy's name, we called him Heath, what it was. I don't think Heath had done anything. One young man left, went to Chicago. In those days they had this crank share telephone. And he called his girlfriend in Chicago, and he was talking. He kept saying, "Sugar," this that and the other, on his girlfriend. There was a White girl who was operating telephone at that time. She told her people he was calling her sugar on the phone. He's on the phone talking to his girlfriend in Chicago. They tried to get him, but he got out town, went on to Chicago. I remember that quite well. Because he was in school with me at the time. He was a couple of grades higher.	18:08
Paul Ortiz	Now you said that you were able to block this attempt at lynching.	19:02
L.M. Randolph	Right.	19:06
Paul Ortiz	How were you able to do that?	19:07
L.M. Randolph	Well, all the Blacks got together. We knew where the, we went to his house, got the guns, and went to his house. There's always someone who tell it what's going to happen. They were told that the niggers had got together. They started up there, but they turned around and went back.	19:09
Paul Ortiz	And this was basically protecting this person named Heath.	19:37
L.M. Randolph	Right.	19:41
Paul Ortiz	Were you involved in that?	19:42
L.M. Randolph	No, but I knew about it.	19:44
Paul Ortiz	This would've been like older people, adults, involved in that.	19:47
L.M. Randolph	Right. And young teenagers involved in it.	19:49
Paul Ortiz	Do you know if there's any, I don't suppose there would have been any kind of newspaper coverage of that event?	19:54
L.M. Randolph	No, none. No newspaper coverage at all. I guess we started getting the Chicago Defender and the Pittsburgh Courier about '30, '32. But none of that appeared in that. We started using Pittsburgh Courier and the Chicago Defender, two Black newspapers.	20:01
Paul Ortiz	Were you reading those papers as a young man?	20:30
L.M. Randolph	Yes, I was selling them.	20:33
Paul Ortiz	Okay. So you would sell them and maybe perhaps read?	20:37
L.M. Randolph	Oh, yes, I'd read.	20:40
Paul Ortiz	Were there any writers or editors that you remember particularly enjoying?	20:40
L.M. Randolph	Well, Oscar DePriest would have an article in the Chicago Defender, and he finally became a congressman from Chicago First District.	20:50
Paul Ortiz	What were the themes in those papers that struck you the most or that impressed you?	20:59
L.M. Randolph	Well, they have always impressed upon us to study and be men of sound repute, and know the line or demarcation and try to know the law and stay within it.	21:06
Paul Ortiz	So you organized the local chapter of NAACP around 1932.	21:41
L.M. Randolph	Right.	21:52
Paul Ortiz	You said that it was really younger people or students that took the lead.	21:55
L.M. Randolph	Right. Took the lead in that.	21:59
Paul Ortiz	Were you corresponding with the national office?	22:00
L.M. Randolph	Walter White, who was, what did we call it? Executive secretary, I believe it was.	22:05
Paul Ortiz	Well, let me back up. I probably asked one question too far. Did you first, I mean, basically was it a group of people that got together and decided this? Or was it an individual who maybe contacted the state office?	22:15
L.M. Randolph	I believe Mr. George Washington Russell Wilburforce Wellborn, my boss, who was a graduate of Tuskegee Institute, spearheaded that. George Wellborn, just say George W. Wellborn.	22:32
Paul Ortiz	And he got in contact with the state office.	22:48
L.M. Randolph	Right.	22:50
Paul Ortiz	So did you have dealings with people like say E.D. Nixon over in Montgomery?	22:58
L.M. Randolph	Oh yes. When that started in Montgomery, I was in the graduate school over at Alabama State at the time. That's when the boycott started.	23:04
Paul Ortiz	Oh, okay. But back in '32, when you organized the chapter, was that considered controversial in the Black community? Were there some people that said, "This is too radical"?	23:23
L.M. Randolph	Well, no. One thing about it, at that time, we knew who to put in and who to pull out or to keep out. See, that's the thing you have to study.	23:34
Paul Ortiz	So it was a local operation.	23:55
L.M. Randolph	Right.	23:57
Paul Ortiz	I see. It was a rather interesting period of time in terms of politics. This is in the early thirties now. Did you have a recollection of the Scottsboro case?	24:03
L.M. Randolph	Yes, I read that because I was reading the Montgomery Advertiser at that time. Of course, I started working in the café when I was finished with sixth grade.	24:19
Paul Ortiz	Okay.	24:32
L.M. Randolph	I was reading the Montgomery Advertiser, and I remember that case quite well.	24:32
Paul Ortiz	Did your chapter in Hurtsboro do any kinds of activities around the Scottsboro case?	24:42
L.M. Randolph	Well, we raised a few nickels, so to speak, to help in the defense.	24:48
Paul Ortiz	Now the Montgomery Advertiser, that was in the Black newspaper?	24:58
L.M. Randolph	No, it was just one newspaper. Montgomery Advertiser.	25:06
Paul Ortiz	Oh, that's when it's still around.	25:09
L.M. Randolph	Right.	25:11
Paul Ortiz	Okay. Do you know if there was a Black newspaper around the Montgomery area during that time?	25:11
L.M. Randolph	I don't recall. There may have been one. We did have one out of Atlanta called Atlanta Daily World that we read. I think it's still in operation, the Atlanta Daily World, I think.	25:20
Paul Ortiz	It is. Because I bought a copy of it when I was in Atlanta. In high school now, did you have any ideas of what kind of career you wanted to pursue? Or did you even think in those terms of a particular goal that you had in mind?	25:43
L.M. Randolph	I've always wanted to be a teacher. I ended up teaching for 40 years. I guess back to Albertus Thomas when I was four or five years old, he said, "Son," he always called me son, said, "When you get up, always go to school, learn to read and write because you hear people talking. If you can't read and write, you won't know what they're talking about." I never will forget that. I kept that foremost in my mind to learn as much as I possibly could.	26:28
Paul Ortiz	Who were your friends in Hurtsboro? Where did you make friends at?	27:06
L.M. Randolph	Well, all the friends of mine in Hurtsboro, there were the Hurts, the Wellborns, the Robinsons, and the Bates, all those friends of mine. The Cobbs, all young friends around there, and the senior citizen who was guiding us.	27:07
Paul Ortiz	Did you meet them through school or church?	27:32
L.M. Randolph	School and church. School and church. See, there were three churches in Hurtsboro. St. Paul AME, Ross Chapel AME Zion, and First Baptist. St. Paul had third Sunday, AME Zion had first and fourth, and Missionary Baptist had second. So it's mixed up.	27:40
Paul Ortiz	Okay. Now you mentioned there was an attempted lynching in Hurtsboro?	28:16
L.M. Randolph	Right.	28:23
Paul Ortiz	Were there other cases like that, cases of discrimination or problems in race relations in general?	28:24
L.M. Randolph	Well, no real incident, but I remember once—On Saturday you couldn't walk the streets, they were so packed. A young Black man, oh, he wasn't no young man, I guess he's in his thirties. He happened to, street was so packed that I guess he touched a White lady's foot and she hollered. He had apologized and he's seven foot tall. He said, "I told you excuse me, I didn't try to step on your foot." They all ran out, but they were afraid to attack him. So he kept on going. I remember that quite well, because it was about the next block from where I was working.	28:35
Paul Ortiz	Was Saturday a day that Black people would go downtown?	29:27
L.M. Randolph	Right. That's where they did their shopping on Saturdays. For miles around, I guess five, six miles, people come into Hurtsboro to do their shopping.	29:31
Paul Ortiz	How about the rest of the time? Was that area off limits to Black people?	29:41
L.M. Randolph	No. Anytime you wanted to go, you could go. But Saturday was basically, because they're working on the farm, or on the saw mill.	29:46
Paul Ortiz	Looking back on your experience in high school, do you think that you were, that high school—What was the name of that high school?	30:06
L.M. Randolph	Russell County Training School.	30:15
Paul Ortiz	Russell County. In your opinion, were you well prepared as a result of your experiences at Russell County?	30:17
L.M. Randolph	Well, I won't say the very best, but I tried to apply myself. It wasn't the very best because we had a few teachers, I remember my math teacher, for three years, all he did was talk about Tennessee where he came from rather than teaching math. I missed out on some of those kind of things. But when I went to A&M in Huntsville, Alabama A&M in Huntsville, there were some dedicated teachers. They would, even on Saturday, let you come to their room or they'd come to the building and work with you and bring you out of those kinks that you were in.	30:28
Paul Ortiz	I see. So you graduated in 1936?	31:06
L.M. Randolph	Right.	31:22
Paul Ortiz	And then you went to—	31:23
L.M. Randolph	Alabama A&M.	31:24
Paul Ortiz	Alabama A&M.	31:25
L.M. Randolph	And that's in Huntsville, in case you don't know.	31:29
Paul Ortiz	Was your grandmother working outside of the home during this time when you were in high school?	31:37
L.M. Randolph	Very little. She took in some washing, if you can call that. Washing and ironing, they called it at that time.	31:43
Paul Ortiz	Did you have other relatives in Hurtsboro?	31:58
L.M. Randolph	Yes, I had an aunt there. I had two aunts, really. Two aunts in Hurtsboro. A lot of other distant relatives around Hurtsboro.	32:12
Paul Ortiz	Do you remember any, you mentioned one story or saying that really influenced you from the gentleman who worked on the plantation.	32:24
L.M. Randolph	Albertus Thomas.	32:37
Paul Ortiz	Albertus Thomas. Now do you remember perhaps similar kinds of sayings or truisms or stories that your grandmother would tell you? Or particular ethics that she—	32:42
L.M. Randolph	There's an old thing that Mrs. [indistinct 00:33:02] said, "Keep on keeping on. Never look back. If you look back, you're simply looking, just see how far you've come. But never stop to reminisce about the back. Just keep moving forward."	33:00
Paul Ortiz	Would she ever talk about her childhood or her upbringing?	33:20
L.M. Randolph	No, not too much.	33:25
Paul Ortiz	Now, during the time that you're living with your grandmother, were you able to get back in contact with your parents?	33:36
L.M. Randolph	Oh yes. My mother was always in and out. She worked in Birmingham, which she provided the finances.	33:45
Paul Ortiz	Do you know what she was doing in Birmingham?	33:53
L.M. Randolph	Domestic.	33:59
Paul Ortiz	Oh, one question that I should have asked earlier. Now, you helped organize the NAACP chapter in 1932. Were there attempts at that time to register to vote, with Black people? Trying to—	34:19
L.M. Randolph	No, there wasn't any push for that at all. We talked about it, but there was no push for it. I never get, I have a pastor, Reverend T.J. Stewart, said—I'm trying to see how he put that. "Education in the head, Christianity in the heart, money in your pocket, land on your feet, and the battle's in your hand." He said, "It may be a long way for the battle, but keep thinking about it because that's where the power is." That's Reverend T.J., that was years, a small boy, but I'll never forget that.	34:36
Paul Ortiz	As a young man, though, you told me that you were very influenced by W.E.B. Dubois.	35:34
L.M. Randolph	Right.	35:42
Paul Ortiz	What it seems that the pastor was saying was kind of a mix of perhaps Booker T. Washington's teachings with—	35:44
L.M. Randolph	And William Hooper Councill, who was the founder of Alabama A&M, who founded Alabama A&M before Tuskegee was founded.	35:48
Paul Ortiz	What other kinds of things would you—Now you said that you would talk about voting in NAACP meetings. What other kinds of strategies or tactics or things would you go over?	36:04
L.M. Randolph	Well, one thing about it, I guess we were trying to keep youngsters in school instead of dropping out. They were dropping out so fast, and we tried to work on that angle of it because we realized that was the key. Education was the key. So we worked on that. We had programs designed to encourage them to do that.	36:21
Paul Ortiz	So it was very much that the chapter was very much involved in programs of mutual aid.	36:52
L.M. Randolph	Right.	36:59
Paul Ortiz	Self-help and so forth. So it must have been quite a big step in your life, going to a Huntsville?	37:00
L.M. Randolph	Yes. I got up and went to Huntsville. My boss, who I had worked for six years from sixth to 12th grade, gave me, it was $30 for the first quarter. I had saved the train fare. Believe it or not, it was $4 from Hurtsboro to Huntsville at that time on the train.	37:18
Paul Ortiz	Now you said your boss. What kind of work were you doing before you left?	37:44
L.M. Randolph	In the café. I was a cook and clerk, janitor, you name it.	37:55
Paul Ortiz	And this was for the school?	38:01
L.M. Randolph	No, that was for this little café. George Washington Wellborn's café, Wellborn's Café.	38:03
Paul Ortiz	Mr. Wellborn was your boss?	38:10
L.M. Randolph	Right.	38:10
Paul Ortiz	He gave you $30, and basically you were off to Huntsville. Now did you major in secondary or elementary?	38:18
L.M. Randolph	Secondary.	38:31
Paul Ortiz	What was the campus like at Alabama A&M during those years, late thirties?	38:37
L.M. Randolph	It was a unified campus, ragged. But everybody knew everybody. And everybody was for everybody. It was 300 students there, but they were all united.	38:46
Paul Ortiz	Were there any teachers that stood out in your memory? Any favorite teachers that you had?	39:05
L.M. Randolph	Well, let's see. Miss Thigpen, P.E. Thigpen. And Professor Ernest F. Hamilton.	39:13
Paul Ortiz	Were they history instructors?	39:29
L.M. Randolph	Hamilton was biology teacher, Miss Thigpen was education teacher. All of them were good. But I think about those because they always took time. If I needed to see them after school on Saturday, I could, for help. They never were too busy to help me.	39:31
Paul Ortiz	Were you involved in campus activities at A&M?	39:56
L.M. Randolph	I was superintendent of the Sunday school. We had Sunday school in those days. I was president of the debate club. They called it J.F. Drake Forensic Society, J.F. Drake Forensic Society.	40:08
Paul Ortiz	Now, as a student at A&M, would you get out to the greater Huntsville area much, or was it more of an insulated—	40:35
L.M. Randolph	Well, we would go to town on Saturdays whenever we wanted to. We had to walk or either thumb. We would go. There was no transportation, no buses, no transportation. And no student had cars.	40:45
Paul Ortiz	Did you find Huntsville to be a strange new town or was it—	41:10
L.M. Randolph	No, it was really, I don't know, they seemed to cater to the students. They did, because a lot of the young men work at the Russel Erskine Hotel down in Huntsville on Saturdays. I never worked there, but a lot of them did. Because I worked on the campus.	41:16
Paul Ortiz	What were the issues—Now you mentioned that the campus was, there's a sense of unity on the campus. Given that, what were some of the issues, perhaps local, perhaps national, that students at Alabama A&M would discuss?	41:42
L.M. Randolph	Well, there was not too many things to really discuss. Oh, who's this? Well, we were, I believe we organized a Normalite Club for the National Normalite Club also, which we took in students from all over the country that had attended A&M many years ago. We got that organized. So we were focusing on improving the college itself along with Dr. Drake, who was the president who's worked hard to build and got rid of all the rat traps on those building, destroyed all those and built new ones. So we were concerned, we worked. There was not too many pressing issues as such except to try to do the best you could.	42:05
Paul Ortiz	How many years were you at A&M?	43:09
L.M. Randolph	The first time was two years. I went back. After the war broke out, went in the service. I went back and spent the last year and a half, to get my B.S.	43:12
Paul Ortiz	Did you go into the Army or—?	43:21
L.M. Randolph	Navy.	43:27
Paul Ortiz	What year did you go into the Navy?	43:31
L.M. Randolph	'44.	43:33
Paul Ortiz	'44. And were you drafted?	43:34
L.M. Randolph	Yes, I was drafted. I had worked with the draft board at Russell County until about over, about through with it. They said, "Well, I guess we better let him go now." I laughed about that. I said, "Well, all that free work." The year, when you're registered for the draft, overall registration at the school that I was working at. We worked all night long, getting people registered. Then I worked with the draft board, helping them along with the school. Of course, they tried to make me a lieutenant in the Army and I didn't want to go in the Army for some reason or another. So I went on, when they finally drafted me, I went in the Navy.	43:40
Paul Ortiz	You were in the Navy for two years?	44:30
L.M. Randolph	Two and a half.	44:31
Paul Ortiz	Which outfit or I mean what was your duty station?	44:33
L.M. Randolph	I went to boot camp at Great Lakes. Specialized training at Hampton Institute, it's now Hampton University.	44:37
Paul Ortiz	What was your training at Hampton?	44:47
L.M. Randolph	Boatswain mate.	44:48
Paul Ortiz	I didn't realize that they had that kind training there during those years.	44:55
L.M. Randolph	Well, it was specialized. They set it up special for that at Hampton, for Blacks.	44:58
Paul Ortiz	For Blacks. Okay. So you were in the service during the days when it was still very much a segregated service.	45:04
L.M. Randolph	Oh yeah. Everything was segregated.	45:21
Paul Ortiz	What was that experience like?	45:23
L.M. Randolph	Well, you didn't come in contact with it. I guess this one of those things that you've always lived with. I met lot of the fellas, and I met one fella now in the hospital, when I went to [indistinct 00:45:45] Naval Hospital. I met fella named George Deco. We got to be great friends and we were together. So I made friends, but we were not in our unit, period.	45:27
Paul Ortiz	Did you go overseas?	45:59
L.M. Randolph	No, I went up and down the West Coast from San Diego to San Francisco. I was supposed to have gone on the USS Alabama, but I ran the captains—	46:01

L.M. Randolph	Peter Harbor to Catalina Island. I taught B12 kids. I mostly made it there, but sea duty, no. Finally, about two years after I got out, they sent me a check for sea duty.	0:01
Paul Ortiz	Did you see cases of discrimination against Black people in the Navy?	0:22
L.M. Randolph	Well, we didn't see. Since you were by yourself, there was nothing to be really seen. You had a few high officers, and most of them were fairly decent. Captain Mecklenberg was about as nice a person as you'd ever want to meet. I imagine you had some but I didn't run into many of them.	0:28
Paul Ortiz	From the Navy, now you were discharged what, about 1946?	1:01
L.M. Randolph	'46.	1:06
Paul Ortiz	'46. Did you go back to A&M at that point?	1:09
L.M. Randolph	Yes, I did. In the spring and March, I got out and then went straight on back to A&M.	1:10
Paul Ortiz	Where was your first teaching assignment?	1:23
L.M. Randolph	Little place called Harrow. That was the name of the school, is Harrow. This is Russell County.	1:23
Paul Ortiz	Okay. Was it a rural school?	1:31
L.M. Randolph	A one teacher rural school.	1:38
Paul Ortiz	That must have been quite a challenge.	1:42
L.M. Randolph	It was. I had 100 kids in that one school by myself. I worked from the time I got there until I left, and I hate to say it, but I think that's the best year I ever had in my life because I enjoyed working with those kids. They were so eager to learn. They were so eager to learn.	1:45
Paul Ortiz	And that was for an entire year?	2:04
L.M. Randolph	Right.	2:06
Paul Ortiz	Were these primarily children of farmers?	2:09
L.M. Randolph	All farmers.	2:12
Paul Ortiz	All farmers?	2:14
L.M. Randolph	All farmers.	2:14
Paul Ortiz	What were the relations like with the administration? Did you have an administration? A board?	2:19
L.M. Randolph	We had what we called a trustee board. All they did was try to keep us some wood there. In those days, you had to furnish your own wood and fuel. So, they kept wood there and stuff. Other than that, bought a few, a little crayon. We had to buy your own crayons because the board of education buys nothing really. Oh, the first year though, they started furnishing books. The state started furnishing books.	2:27
Paul Ortiz	Were there White landlords or people on the power structure at Russell County that didn't care to see Black children educated? Or felt—	3:02
L.M. Randolph	Well, I'm sure they did because our school term is half of what the Whites were. Exactly half. Eight and four. We had four and they had eight.	3:16
Paul Ortiz	Is this something that you chaffed oat as a young teacher? Or was this beyond your control?	3:29
L.M. Randolph	Well, what I did, most Black teachers got the trustees to raise money to extend the school year. That's the way we did it.	3:41
Paul Ortiz	Okay. So, there were other teachers that helped you with this project?	3:53
L.M. Randolph	Right. The salaries and the school term were equalized in 1947 under Governor James E. "Big Jim" Folsom.	3:55
Paul Ortiz	Okay, I've heard his name quite often here.	4:23
L.M. Randolph	It's his son as governor. He equalized the salaries and the terms while he was governor.	4:31
Paul Ortiz	So, you were—	4:53
L.M. Randolph	I never forget he made this statement. I was in California at the time, but "If you want segregation, you got to pay for it."	4:54
Paul Ortiz	That's funny.	5:01
L.M. Randolph	"If you want segregation, you got to pay for it."	5:06
Paul Ortiz	Well, this is a question that I didn't ask earlier, but relating to your military career now. Going to California in the forties, that must have been a new, well, obviously a new experience for you. Did you see anything that stood out in your mind? Did you notice the difference in the climate?	5:13
L.M. Randolph	Well, yes, the climate was different. It started raining in November until April, and after that water was gone. But I didn't get around too much. I stayed basically on the base. I was in charge of the boat pool. On weekends, I could go but sometimes I just stayed on the base. I went to one or two clubs. I went to one club called, I can't think of it now. And fella almost got killed and I didn't go back anymore.	5:38
Paul Ortiz	Did you notice differences, say, in terms of how you were coming from a region, highly segregated and then going California, did you notice those kinds of—	6:15
L.M. Randolph	Well, let me tell you about California at that time. Everywhere I went was in a segregated place.	6:35
Paul Ortiz	In California?	6:42
L.M. Randolph	In California. A couple of hotels. I tried a few things. They always were packed full. One other thing, when I went back to Great Lake after I had family bootcamp and went back to be reassigned, we got to Chicago at night and couldn't get back out to the base. We went to the YMCA on the north side. We were close to the north side and they told, there was about 30 of us there, that they didn't have any space. But there was a butler there who told us they had space. They sent us on the south side, all the way across town to sleep in the Quantum House. That was in Chicago. That's right. That was in Chicago. So, it's always been a strange thing.	6:43
L.M. Randolph	Another incident happened when we left Great Lake, going to Hampton. We got to Wheeling, West Virginia. I had the tickets for food. There was some prisoners of war on that train, German prisoners of war. They carried them in the cafe to eat and they were going to bring us ours, put them on one of those little [indistinct 00:08:06], you know? You're too young to remember those things. Those flats they had out to bring out bags and things on a tray?	7:40
Paul Ortiz	Uh-huh.	8:11
L.M. Randolph	They were going to bring our food out there and I refused to sign the chits. I said, "We're going to Hampton and until we get to Hampton, eat."	8:13
Paul Ortiz	Just refuse to do it?	8:21
L.M. Randolph	Mm-hmm.	8:22
Paul Ortiz	Were there other Black sailors who were—	8:25
L.M. Randolph	There were 30 of us in that group.	8:29
Paul Ortiz	So, this was particularly enraging.	8:32
L.M. Randolph	There was Wheeling, West Virginia and never forget it. Wheeling, West Virginia.	8:35
Paul Ortiz	Uh-huh. It seemed like the train—	8:40
L.M. Randolph	They got angry at me because I wouldn't sign those chits for them. I said, "No, we aren't going to sign these chits." If those prisoners or war can go in there and eat, and I'm fighting them and I can't go in there, we aren't going to sign these chits. I'll just stay hungry until I get to Hampton." And we did.	8:44
Paul Ortiz	It was as if the German POWs were being treated better.	8:57
L.M. Randolph	That's right. That's right.	9:04
Paul Ortiz	Did this incident and other incidents cause you, and maybe the climate in World War II, because World War II there was a lot of political propaganda. There was a lot of talk about a war for democracy. Were you thinking of politics during this period of time in terms of—	9:13
L.M. Randolph	Well, I remember what A. Philip Randolph said about that. He got this bill passed in Congress during President Roosevelt's time. I'm trying to think of what that number.	9:36
Paul Ortiz	The FEPC?	9:46
L.M. Randolph	Yeah. A. Philip Randolph worked on that for years, and he got that thing straight. That's when it started coming down some. He was the president of sleeping car porters at that time. He worked hard on that.	9:48
Paul Ortiz	All right. Did you keep up with other events such as the March on Washington movement?	10:08
L.M. Randolph	Yes, I kept up with that. Kept up with that.	10:24
Paul Ortiz	So, once out of the service, now did you attempt to register to vote in the 40s and 50s?	10:36
L.M. Randolph	I registered, I believe it was in '50. 1950.	10:41
Paul Ortiz	And now, you had moved from Russell County at this point?	10:51
L.M. Randolph	I had moved here.	10:53
Paul Ortiz	Oh, you were here in Tuskegee?	10:55
L.M. Randolph	Mm-hmm.	10:55
Paul Ortiz	Oh.	10:55
L.M. Randolph	Moved here in 1950. The restoration had started in Russell County. I was going to register there. The mayor in Phenix City had said that one of my students was shining shoes at his barbershop and he was telling them, he said, "Now, we going to have to let some register. So, what we going to do? We'll let the teachers and the ministers register." The boy came back and told me what he was saying. He said, "Mayor Cobb. His name is Mayor Cobb said that. Said we're going to do something about it so we're going let the preachers and their ministers register." That was in, I think, what? '47 I believe it was. And they started letting them register.	10:58
Paul Ortiz	Were you thinking about it at this point?	11:48
L.M. Randolph	Oh, yes. We had talked about it. We had one pioneer at that time in Phenix City, a Mr. Austin Sumbry. He would really stick his neck out for justice and right.	11:49
Paul Ortiz	Oh really? Sumbry, S-U—	12:06
L.M. Randolph	Austin Sumbry. S-U-M-B-R-Y.	12:09
Paul Ortiz	And Phenix City is in Russell County?	12:12
L.M. Randolph	That's right.	12:13
Paul Ortiz	Okay.	12:13
L.M. Randolph	In Russell. I'll never forget one thing. May not be important, but I want to say this about him.	12:13
Paul Ortiz	Okay.	12:22
L.M. Randolph	They had spent $10,000 on band equipment for the White high school. And our high school, which is South Girard High School, we were raising the money to buy our equipment. But it just so happened in the Phenix City Herald, it came out what they were doing. I got a copy of the Phenix Herald and I carried it to Sumbry and showed it to him. He looked at it, he said, "Is that true?" So, we went to the mayor and showed him the paper. Said, "Now, listen here. You're spending $10,000 on uniforms and band equipment for the White high school and nothing for us. What you going to do about it?" That same day, the mayor provides the money for the Black high school.	12:22
Paul Ortiz	In '48.	13:03
L.M. Randolph	That's right. Never forget that.	13:07
Paul Ortiz	Now, earlier you said that we were talking about voting or registering and things like that. Now when you say we, was there any kind of organization?	13:14
L.M. Randolph	It really wasn't an inauguration as such. The Phenix Teachers Association thought about it. There was a Black Teachers Association at that time. They had two associations, the Black. We talked about it. So, I guess that's why the mayor decided after things were changing in Washington that they'd have to do something about it locally before they were forced to do it.	13:26
Paul Ortiz	So, what precipitated your move to Tuskegee?	13:52
L.M. Randolph	Well, a friend of mine, who was supervisor of instruction here, I was present at that time of the District Seven of Teachers Association. He heard me speak and then he said, "Boy, I want you to come to Tuskegee," and said, "The first time there's a vacancy for a principal, I want you to have it." And he did. That's why I'm here.	13:57
Paul Ortiz	So, you became the principal of the local—	14:30
L.M. Randolph	Louis Adams Elementary School. Louis Adams, grades one through eight. Louis Adam Elementary School it was called. That's 1958.	14:33
Paul Ortiz	1958. So, between 1948 and 1958?	14:52
L.M. Randolph	I was a principal in Phenix City.	14:52
Paul Ortiz	Okay, principle in Phenix City. Did you have difficulties registering? You said you registered in 1950?	14:53
L.M. Randolph	No, I did not. I had a friend, who had registered here, and at that time you had to ask when to vouch for you, and he did.	15:11
Paul Ortiz	You had to have a White person vouch for you?	15:21
L.M. Randolph	No, this was a Black one.	15:26
Paul Ortiz	Okay.	15:26
L.M. Randolph	Prior to that they had to have White, but enough had registered. A William P. Mitchell. He was a member of our church. Oh, he was a go-getter and he got that thing going, and just about broke that having to have the White ups.	15:29
Paul Ortiz	In Phenix City?	15:51
L.M. Randolph	No, this is here.	15:51
Paul Ortiz	Oh, this is here?	15:51
L.M. Randolph	Yes, sir. This is here.	15:51
Paul Ortiz	Oh, okay, so you first registered to vote here.	15:51
L.M. Randolph	Here. Right, 1950.	15:53
Paul Ortiz	1950. Oh, so you were working as a teacher in Phenix City and then you registered to vote?	15:58
L.M. Randolph	Here. I came here in '58.	16:04
Paul Ortiz	'58. Okay, but you first registered to vote in '50.	16:08
L.M. Randolph	In '50.	16:09
Paul Ortiz	Okay.	16:09
L.M. Randolph	Yeah, see, I had moved here.	16:09
Paul Ortiz	Oh, okay. I see.	16:09
L.M. Randolph	See, this was government property here and I was able to buy it.	16:23
Paul Ortiz	Oh, okay.	16:26
L.M. Randolph	See, the air base, this was a part of the air base property at that time, the all Black Air Force. And it was very reasonable. A friend of mine knew about it, and so I was able to buy this place.	16:28
Paul Ortiz	In '58?	16:45
L.M. Randolph	No, '40, let me see. '49. 1949.	16:46
Paul Ortiz	I see. So, you mentioned William Mitchell is a person who is a go-getter.	16:50
L.M. Randolph	Yes.	17:01
Paul Ortiz	Do you know other people who were along those same lines?	17:03
L.M. Randolph	Daniel L. Beasley, Dr. Charles G. Gomillion. I'm sure you've heard of him. He's still living in Washington. He's in Washington now. He was here about a month ago.	17:06
Paul Ortiz	That's right. That's what I heard. We missed him.	17:21
L.M. Randolph	Dr. Charles G. Gomillion. Let me see, who else? A Mrs. Bueller C. Johnson. Oh.	17:27
Paul Ortiz	So, which church were you attending during this time?	17:34
L.M. Randolph	I joined St. Paul AME Church in Harrisburg in 1930. Then when I came here in Tuskegee, I joined Washington Chapel Union Church in 1950.	17:42
Paul Ortiz	1950. You said William P. Mitchell went to that church?	18:02
L.M. Randolph	Yes.	18:19
Paul Ortiz	Now, did any other people that you named, Charles Gomillion, Daniel Beasley, did they go to that church here?	18:19
L.M. Randolph	Gomillion did.	18:19
Paul Ortiz	Oh, Gomillion?	18:19
L.M. Randolph	Dan went to Chehaw AME Zion Church right up here.	18:19
Paul Ortiz	Okay.	18:19
L.M. Randolph	Bueller C. Johnson was the name of that church.	18:22
Paul Ortiz	Okay. Did you get involved in civic life and in this area during that time?	18:26
L.M. Randolph	I was president in the AC, President of Tuskegee Civic Association. President of Stewart Board of Washington Chapel, Superintendent of Sunday School, Chairman of the Budget Committee.	18:34
Paul Ortiz	Okay. And that was during the fifties?	18:51
L.M. Randolph	Well, '50 on until I left. I didn't leave here until I started pastoring in '50, what was it? '68. I stayed on until '70. '60? I'm going to see if I get it right. No, '80. Right, '80. When you get old, your memory gets bad.	18:53
Paul Ortiz	Did you know people who had been involved in the founding of the local NAACP chapter here?	19:14
L.M. Randolph	I believe that was Mitchell, Beasley and Johnson, and Dr. Gomillion.	19:25
Paul Ortiz	Now, had they done that by the late forties? Was that before you came?	19:35
L.M. Randolph	Yeah, that was before I came, right.	19:39
Paul Ortiz	Okay. How many notes I got here. So, in the fifties, so far it sounded, people that I've talked with in this area, it sounds like that was quite an electrifying time to be involved in groups such as the civics commission.	19:59
L.M. Randolph	So, we had a boycott here, you know? I guess you know about that.	20:11
Paul Ortiz	I've heard a little bit about it.	20:14
L.M. Randolph	Yes, we had a boycott here.	20:15
Paul Ortiz	How do you come about deciding to carry out that strategy?	20:17
L.M. Randolph	The TCA under Dr. Gomillion and William P. Mitchell. Because at that time, Sam Engelhart, who was representative, gerrymandered every Black person out of the city of Tuskegee except three. And that's what caused the boycott here.	20:21
Paul Ortiz	Now, that was in early sixties? Was that?	20:41
L.M. Randolph	I believe late, early sixties or late fifties. Might have been the late fifties. I'm not too sure about that. I think it might have been the late fifties.	20:52
Paul Ortiz	Now, earlier you mentioned that you had some acquaintance with E.D. Nixon and the Montgomery Bus Boycott.	20:53
L.M. Randolph	Oh yeah, he was tied with the school and all over there at that time. He worked with Dr. Treman and Pierce and all them, so we worked together.	21:01
Paul Ortiz	Was there any connection between the Montgomery NAACP or political organizations and Montgomery with the TCA?	21:11
L.M. Randolph	Not with the TCA, the NAACP, but they worked together as units because they got that training under Dr. Comedian mostly.	21:22
Paul Ortiz	Oh, both chapters did?	21:30
L.M. Randolph	Right. Dr. Gomillion, E.D. Nixon and Professor Pierce and some other I can't recall at this time. Professor Pierce from over at Montgomery and E.D. Nixon, oh, I don't know. I see the faces, I can't recall the names right now.	21:31
Paul Ortiz	Would those people from Montgomery ever come over here to Tuskegee to talk?	21:53
L.M. Randolph	Oh, yes. They would come over and be speakers for some of our events.	22:01
Paul Ortiz	Would Nixon come over?	22:09
L.M. Randolph	Yes, Dr. Nixon came over, and Pierce and several others.	22:10
Paul Ortiz	Was this before you organized the boycott here?	22:18
L.M. Randolph	After. I think mainly after.	22:22
Paul Ortiz	It must have been a tough decision to organize a boycott. Do you remember, you mentioned that the gerrymandering, it was a pretty grotesque case of discrimination, but where that—	22:24
L.M. Randolph	Well, the reason for that gerrymandering was there were enough Blacks who were voting to put Black officials in. That's why Representative Engelhart gerrymandered the town.	22:51
Paul Ortiz	So, it was a very cynical maneuver.	23:03
L.M. Randolph	Yeah, it was political in nature, what happened. That's why he did that.	23:12
Paul Ortiz	Were there people that had second thoughts about calling a boycott at that point?	23:15
L.M. Randolph	Well, there were a few who didn't really take part in it, but very few. I'm trying to think of this man whose son was a speaker. What's his name, because his boys were the goats for going down to Tuskegee Public Schools for integrated. What's this man name? Actually, wait, I can't think of his name. His sons were the goats, so to speak, to go down there. Cut that off a minute.	23:22
L.M. Randolph	His name is Detroit Lee.	24:11
Paul Ortiz	And he was one of the people who was arguing against the boycott?	24:16
L.M. Randolph	For it.	24:20
Paul Ortiz	Oh, for it.	24:21
L.M. Randolph	He had his kids to enter the school down there, try to enter the school.	24:21
Paul Ortiz	And he still lives in Tuskegee?	24:26
L.M. Randolph	He still lives here. He still lives here. He's retired and he still lives here.	24:31
Paul Ortiz	I see. How would you make decisions in the Tuskegee Civic Association? Would you have a debate on the board?	24:35
L.M. Randolph	We'd have a discussion and then a vote.	24:48
Paul Ortiz	Were there any particular partisan groups within the TCA split, say, between professionals or people in the camps of Tuskegee?	25:04
L.M. Randolph	Well, those who would would usually be with it. Now, those who were against it stayed at home most time.	25:16
Paul Ortiz	Oh, okay, so that was the split. Do you remember the early, I've heard a little bit about the early mass meetings where a lot of people would show up?	25:23
L.M. Randolph	Oh, thousands would show up, really.	25:40
Paul Ortiz	How would you recruit people for those?	25:44
L.M. Randolph	It was announced in each church. All over the county, all over the county, and they would come from here, there, everywhere to be there.	25:53
Paul Ortiz	Now, being active, you were also active in the NAACP at this point in time.	25:59
L.M. Randolph	Right.	26:29
Paul Ortiz	In your view, was there an overlap between what the NAACP was trying to accomplish and what the TCA was accomplishing?	26:29
L.M. Randolph	They combined their strength. They unified because, see, one head and one of the others, they were all friends. Mitchell was a TCA and Gomillion, then that was Bueller with the NAACP, and all of them got tied together. So, there wasn't any friction between the two organizations as such.	26:40
Paul Ortiz	I see. Now, at this point, moving more to family life. Were you married at this time?	26:59
L.M. Randolph	Yes, I was. Yes, yes.	27:28
Paul Ortiz	When did you meet your wife?	27:29
L.M. Randolph	In high school.	27:31
Paul Ortiz	In high school.	27:32
L.M. Randolph	Really, elementary school too.	27:33
Paul Ortiz	Oh, okay. So, you grew up together, more or less.	27:34
L.M. Randolph	Right, right.	27:37
Paul Ortiz	You married after you got out of the service?	27:43
L.M. Randolph	No, before.	27:45
Paul Ortiz	Before. Was your wife also a teacher?	27:45
L.M. Randolph	Yes.	27:55
Paul Ortiz	Okay. Was she able to get a job in this area when you were assigned?	27:57
L.M. Randolph	She came here before I did.	28:02
Paul Ortiz	Oh.	28:03
L.M. Randolph	Yeah, she was able to get here before I did.	28:06
Paul Ortiz	Now, in your capacity as a principal, it must have been sightly, you had a slightly different relationship to your school board as a principal perhaps than you did as a teacher.	28:33
L.M. Randolph	Well, we had a good relationship with the superintendent. At that time, your board members delegated all the authority to the superintendent. And I had an excellent relationship with each superintendent that I worked under. Excellent. The only thing that one of them didn't do was help me get the school of graduate, but I got it anyway.	28:52
Paul Ortiz	Oh. This was the grammar school?	29:18
L.M. Randolph	Right.	29:18
Paul Ortiz	Okay. How did you go about doing that?	29:18
L.M. Randolph	Well, I got all my information from the State Department of Education and from the Southern Station of Colleges and School. We got the state accreditation first, then we worked on the southern. The lady out of University of Alabama came and the man from the State Department, lives over here in Reed Temple. They were all White but they came and helped and spearheaded and got us going, and we got the state accreditation. Then we got the Southern Association. Let's see, when was that? Oh. Oh, I'm sorry. We got the state accreditation in 1968 and the Southern Association 1970.	29:26
Paul Ortiz	So, was that a long road to get accreditation?	30:19
L.M. Randolph	Well, we worked two, three years on each one of them.	30:21
Paul Ortiz	Now, in terms of getting accreditation, are these things such as the quality of text, libraries?	30:33
L.M. Randolph	Libraries. The key was library and faculty. Your faculty had to be teaching in the area of training and have to have so many books in your library. And has the number of teachers per class.	30:40
Paul Ortiz	You began thinking about the accreditation process in the fifties?	31:02
L.M. Randolph	Well, yes, I'm trying to think what happened. I was just reading some magazine about accreditation and different things and I started on— I thought about it before I left Phenix City, but I didn't go to work on it until I got here. I started getting it up, getting it organized and started working on the library. We got our library set up first. Then I started assigning teachers to the area in which they were trained to teach. Then went to work from there.	31:21
Paul Ortiz	Where were you able to get the books from? Were you able to—	32:07
L.M. Randolph	Well, we had a strong PTA and we had lot of donors from the VA hospital.	32:13
Paul Ortiz	So, you knew people at the VA hospital.	32:34
L.M. Randolph	And the university. The institute at that time.	32:40
Paul Ortiz	And they basically helped you acquire the books.	32:43
L.M. Randolph	Right. Right.	32:45
Paul Ortiz	And this at?	32:52
L.M. Randolph	This was '68 here when I finished this one.	32:52
Paul Ortiz	Okay.	32:56
L.M. Randolph	And Southern was '70.	32:56
Paul Ortiz	And that's at Louis Adams.	32:58
L.M. Randolph	Right.	32:58
Paul Ortiz	That's says Tuskegee Institute. Is that for the address purposes?	33:06
L.M. Randolph	That's it. Tuskegee Institute, Alabama.	33:08
Paul Ortiz	Okay. Now, was that school considered to be on the campus?	33:18
L.M. Randolph	Yes. Have you been by that cemetery over there?	33:19
Paul Ortiz	Yeah.	33:21
L.M. Randolph	You see that school just above the cemetery? That's Louis Adams.	33:22
Paul Ortiz	Oh, okay. All right. So, as an administrator there, you would've had almost day to day relationships with administration of the institute.	33:31
L.M. Randolph	Right.	33:38
Paul Ortiz	Now, were you considered to be on staff at the institute?	33:38
L.M. Randolph	No, no, no, no. I was County Board of Education.	33:49
Paul Ortiz	County board.	33:51
L.M. Randolph	The state school period. State and county school. A lot of our teacher, practice teachers, came there to do that intern to Louis Adams. We had a great relationship with them with that, so we did all that, mostly intern right there because it's close by. The kids could walk out there.	33:52
Paul Ortiz	What was community life like in those years at the institute?	34:08
L.M. Randolph	Well, I guess it was fair. I didn't try to do anything but work with them. I didn't try to fraternize with them, just work. That was it.	34:25
Paul Ortiz	Were you involved in any other kinds of social life, fraternity?	34:42
L.M. Randolph	No, I never joined the fraternity. I was a part of— one of them. I'm trying to think of it. Now I can't even think of it. Which was kind of an organization for teachers, organization for both male and female. I can't think of the name of it now. I was a part of that, and in fact I'm still a member of that one. But I can't think of the name of it because I don't ever attend the meeting. Just pay my dues.	34:48
Paul Ortiz	So, as a principal, you were in a very unique position perhaps to view the transition of schools and of the quality of education for Black children. During the period of segregation and then during the so-called period of integration, what kinds of changes did you see? Gains? Losses?	35:21
L.M. Randolph	Well, basically when they went integrated, see, Tuskegee Public was the only White school at that time downtown. That was the only White school. As long as they had a White principal down there, they did fairly well integrating. Once they moved the White principal, all the Whites left. Then they set up to make an academy.	35:50
Paul Ortiz	Oh, okay. I heard a little bit about that.	36:24
L.M. Randolph	It's down the highway going to a Union Springs on 29. The only one that's integrated effectively is in Notasulga. Notasulga High School. Now, it's really integrated.	36:25
Paul Ortiz	Oh, that's where I was talking with Mrs. Hooten, and she taught there?	36:41
L.M. Randolph	She worked at the Block School, what we called the Block School in Notasulga. It wasn't at the high school.	36:46
Paul Ortiz	Okay. Now, where did Louis Adams go during that period of time? How did it evolve?	36:56
L.M. Randolph	Well, we stayed as we were because we got three or four White kids to come there during the integration period.	37:01
Paul Ortiz	Were they recruited there?	37:12
L.M. Randolph	No, no, no. One or two came to work at the VA, I believe it was, and they brought theirs there.	37:14
Paul Ortiz	I see.	37:21
L.M. Randolph	And they stayed till they finished. I don't think we have too many more.	37:24
Paul Ortiz	Did you have to deal with any kinds of tensions in the school over their attendance? Or did it—	37:33
L.M. Randolph	No, there were so few of them so they were lost in the crowd. The few were there was lost. The kids were really nice to them. Because as my job to make sure that they were.	37:45
Paul Ortiz	What were some of the biggest changes in education that you've seen since your days as a young teacher to a principal administrator?	38:25
L.M. Randolph	Well, let's see. I can't hardly figure it out. I feel that we have slipped a bit academically. I really do. I really feel we've slipped a bit academically. There are those who don't know how to handle money and that's a problem. Yeah, I see that as a key problem, knowing how to handle money. Because it doesn't matter if my grandmother would say, "You can throw more out of the window with a teaspoon than you can throw in the front door of the shovel." And that's what we're doing.	38:45
Paul Ortiz	Now, I have to ask you this question because early on you told me that W.E.B. Du Bois is one of your perhaps role models [crosstalk 00:40:02].	39:35
L.M. Randolph	Well, I liked his reading, I like his stand and he stood up for what he believed in.	40:02
Paul Ortiz	Now, and then coming to Tuskegee—	40:09
L.M. Randolph	And Richard Allen, he's the founder of our church.	40:12
Paul Ortiz	Coming to Tuskegee, did you see, perhaps as a philosophical question or perhaps I'm just splitting hairs here, but did you see any kind of difference between Du Bois's approach and, say, Booker T. Washington's approach in the institution here at Tuskegee? Or did you see those?	40:20
L.M. Randolph	Well, Booker Washington had an excellent idea, which I hate they got away from it. Training the head, hand and heart. We lost something there. Because time we closed out all the trades at the Tuskegee, the state set up all these trade schools. So, we lost out there. Du Bois believed in that mind, and we got to have a trained mind. I agree with that and I like that approach. I had to carry both together. Both together.	40:41
Paul Ortiz	You see them as complimentary rather than at odds.	41:22
L.M. Randolph	Right. Right. What do you call it, competent teaching?	41:30
Paul Ortiz	Uh-huh. If you had to sum up your life and your experiences as a teacher, as a principal, as a person growing up in the South and seeing so many changes, where would you begin? Or what would you say were the things that really stuck out in your mind?	41:32
L.M. Randolph	Well, having traveled the world over just about, and having gone to Chicago during segregation and all my friends going to Chicago would come back with those big cars and blowing off. When I went there to the World's Fair in 1930 and went to their houses and went to that club, they were still going to segregated clubs. It was as segregated as everything else. And those houses, had to come down three or four flights of stairs to get to the bathroom. I at least had— So, I don't know. I guess I'm weird when it comes to that. I'd rather had what I had, to be honest with you.	42:06
Paul Ortiz	Yeah.	42:58
L.M. Randolph	At least I had my own.	42:58
Paul Ortiz	Right. I see. Let's see if I have— Oh, I know. I neglected to ask you, now the NAACP chapter in Hunts—	43:00
L.M. Randolph	Hurtsboro, H-U-R-T-S-B-O-R-O.	43:32
Paul Ortiz	Hurtsboro.	43:42
L.M. Randolph	I don't think they have a chapter now. I don't think. I got to check on that. Check my system. I don't think they have a chapter there. No.	43:42
Paul Ortiz	Do you remember the officers, the founding officers of that organization in Hurtsboro?	43:50
L.M. Randolph	For the senior citizens, George Weldon, Walter Hurt, Tom Davis and Sanford Banks Jr.	43:58
Paul Ortiz	Okay. And that was the senior branch?	44:28
L.M. Randolph	Right.	44:28
Paul Ortiz	Then you had a junior branch?	44:32
L.M. Randolph	Right.	44:33
Paul Ortiz	Did you have a youth secretary or youth advisor?	44:34
L.M. Randolph	Oh, the secretary was for the lady, for our organization, Mrs. Jenny L. Robinson. Mrs. Jenny L. Robinson, deceased.	44:37
Paul Ortiz	Okay. Did you have officers?	44:46
L.M. Randolph	David Banks, Charles Manley, Louise Talbut, Lucy Cosby. All deceased now.	45:01
Paul Ortiz	Okay. Now, did any of these men and women that you mentioned, did any of them go on to continue in the NAACP structure?	45:23
L.M. Randolph	Yes, throughout their life they were still with it until they died. Course, some of them died early, because like Louise died early. Charles Manley went in the service. Louise Carver died about 15, 20 years ago. All of them been dead a long time. But as long as they living, they were active.	45:38
Paul Ortiz	Okay. Well, let's see. I—	46:20

Item Info

Title:

L. Randolph interview recording, 1994 July 12

Date:

July 12, 1994

Creator:

Randolph, L. M.

Contributor:

Ortiz, Paul

Description:

Name: L. M. Randolph; Date of Birth: unknown; Place of Birth: Guerryton, AL; Occupation(s): educator; principal/teacher; Residence: Tuskegee, AL
Informant ID: 686; Interviewed by: Paul Ortiz.

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Language:

English

Digital Collection:

Behind the Veil

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Behind the Veil: Documenting African American Life in the Jim Crow South interviews, photographs, and project records, circa 1864-2011, bulk 1990-2004

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Provenance:

The David M. Rubenstein Rare Book and Manuscript Library acquired the Records of the Behind the Veil Oral History Project from the Duke University Center for Documentary Studies in 1997, 1998, 2000, and 2002.

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Copyright for content created by the Behind the Veil project is held by Duke University and made available to the public using a Creative Commons Attribution / Non-commercial (CC-BY-NC) license.

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9181ec22-2fe8-4869-9dc6-ef5f791b24b7
behindtheveil
3f0bed91-7f35-403f-95de-04433b0bf648
ark:/87924/r4p84g54h
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L. Randolph interview recording, 1994 July 12

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1. L. Randolph administrative file, 1994

John Hope Franklin Research Center

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L. Randolph interview recording, 1994 July 12

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