Aquilina Howell interview recording, 1994 August 03

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Aquilina Howell	[indistinct 00:00:10] the question you asked me when I was born.	0:00
Stacey Scales	How long have you been in either Tallahassee or—	0:00
Aquilina Howell	I was born in Frenchtown. I was born right there, just in that house there. Did you see the houses here on Georgia Street and—	0:12
Stacey Scales	You were born in this house?	0:18
Aquilina Howell	Mm-hmm. That's the one we're trying to fill.	0:18
Tywanna Whorley	[indistinct 00:00:35]	0:18
Aquilina Howell	Well, it had a living room, a hallway, and the hallway was rather wide and the stairs were in the hallway you entered. There used to be a front, a porch, downstairs and upstairs, two porches, and there was, when you left the front porch, you entered into a sort of alcove area with the stairs. It was broad enough to, I remember, we keep trunks under the stairs, and then it was a little end table on either side.	0:36
Aquilina Howell	Then to the right was the living room, the parlor, they used to call it, and then behind that was the dining room. And across the hall, there was a hallway that was almost room size. There was a kitchen, and then the bathroom after we had indoor started, and then the front bedroom, you could enter this bedroom from the porch. My grandmother lived there, and then a bedroom behind that one. Then upstairs was this bedroom.	1:21
Stacey Scales	Growing up here, were there places around the area that you didn't know?	2:05
Aquilina Howell	Well, in the Frenchtown, in the district where they had cafes, etc., that you didn't go unless you were there for a special reason, like going to the cafe. Then there was a Knights of Pythias Hall. They used to have dances, and some of the Lionel Hamptons, some of the, uh-huh, would appear. There was a minstrel show, Silas Greens from New Orleans, who used to come, but they were down on what we call Fishers Green. They had tents down there, south side, down in that area.	2:08
Aquilina Howell	Then we had the fairs would come, the carnivals and circuses. But to answer your question, you didn't go in the, they used to call them juke joints. They were really little bars and food, and what we go to now.	2:56
Stacey Scales	[indistinct 00:03:20] would Blacks be able to—	3:19
Aquilina Howell	Yeah, Blacks and the Whites had their country clubs and larger places and all, but Blacks had the small owner, the cafes. I remember one famous one in Frenchtown was the Red Bird Cafe, and Mr. McKinnis ran that one. They called him Cap McKinnis, and each restaurant had specialties that they dealt with. He had soul food primarily.	3:24
Aquilina Howell	Then on Virginia Street there was a cafe, Ed Ford's cafe, and he had, in addition to soul food, he had specialties like bread puddings and desserts and ice cream. In fact, one of the bread puddings, they called Ed Ford's Special. It had raisins, had anything you could think of. It was delicious though.	3:58
Aquilina Howell	And then right down the street from us, another lady had a cafe, Miss Hadie Jackson. She sold fish and she made homemade ice cream, and Frenchtown was really an entrepreneurial section. And then the Nims, you taping in there?	4:31
Stacey Scales	Yes.	4:58
Aquilina Howell	The Nims Brothers had grocery stores. One had a grocery store downtown on South Adams Street, because that section, there were Black businesses in that section, small cafes again. I remember one cafe or a lady named Miss Lizzie Douglas ran that one, and across the street was Nims Meat Market and grocery store.	4:58
Aquilina Howell	But he was primarily meat market because at that time they butchered. You didn't have as much meats being brought in by railroad car. The local men would butcher their own meats and all. There were a lot of White boarding houses, and because you didn't have large hotels and what you call them, motels. So usually these were family dwellings, like what we call the bread and breakfast now, and they rented rooms to people.	5:37
Aquilina Howell	Sometimes the roomers were year-round people and then they rented rooms to people traveling. He used to furnish meats for certain houses that they traded with him because there weren't many meat markets, because you had to go to the slaughterhouses to buy meats, and this market was down. It was a very nice, in fact, my mother kept books for the Nims market.	6:21
Aquilina Howell	Let's see what, oh, and there was a shoe factory, a Black entrepreneur, Jiles Shoe Factory, and they were, let's see, what's there now? Across from Park Avenue down on the Monroe? No, they on the South Adams Street side, and they have in the archives of pictures of the shoe factory. I think he was Jamaican, and he actually made shoes and sold them. Then you could get shoes cleaned and polished and repaired.	7:02
Aquilina Howell	In Frenchtown, there was also another shoe repair, Sikes Shoe Repair on Virginia Street, and all along the streets. Then down the street from Lincoln High School, another Nims brother ran a grocery store, and in fact, I think that store is still open. It's across the street from, you know where the [indistinct 00:08:18] restaurant is?	7:47
Tywanna Whorley	Which is?	8:23
Aquilina Howell	On the corner, there's a store on the corner that's still there.	8:24
Tywanna Whorley	Step back a little bit from the sidewalk and [indistinct 00:08:32].	8:25
Aquilina Howell	In other words, Frenchtown was a self-contained neighborhood. You had everything, and then on Virginia Street, Dr. Campbell, AO Campbell, had a home there, and his practice was downtown in the same building section with the shoe factory.	8:39
Aquilina Howell	Of course, they served predominantly the Black neighborhoods and all, and doctors made home visits and that sort of thing. And then another business was the funeral parlors, JRD Laster was one of the oldest funeral parlors here, and now we have Strong-Jones. But Laster served all the old families, because he was one of the first ones.	9:03
Tywanna Whorley	[indistinct 00:09:31]	9:28
Aquilina Howell	About that time they were going out of business-like. But then Strong-Jones, right down by the park, you know the Frenchtown Park and everything?	9:36
Stacey Scales	Did you ever go to the White side of Tallahassee to shop?	9:44
Aquilina Howell	Yeah, we'd go downtown.	9:50
Stacey Scales	How were you treated?	9:56
Aquilina Howell	Well, it depended if you were—Some families that people knew you for through the years, but you still, they had separate dressing rooms and sometimes some stores would allow you to take clothing home and try and then—	10:00
Stacey Scales	Is that [indistinct 00:10:19]?	10:18
Aquilina Howell	Yeah.	10:18
Aquilina Howell	Oh my God. (laughs)	10:18
Tywanna Whorley	Hey.	10:18
Aquilina Howell	Hey.	10:18
Tywanna Whorley	[INTERRUPTION 00:10:19].	10:19
Tywanna Whorley	One of the places I wanted to ask you about right now is the community [indistinct 00:10:49]	10:19
Aquilina Howell	It was a very viable community. I mean, because of the segregation of the middle class and everybody lived in the same community. There was not the strict caste lines but you were very friendly, because for instance, our house was considered one of the nicer houses in the community.	10:53
Aquilina Howell	In fact, there were only about two, two-story houses in that section. But we all went to school together and the—	11:22
Tywanna Whorley	[indistinct 00:11:39].	11:35
Aquilina Howell	You trying to decide how—	11:40
Tywanna Whorley	[indistinct 00:11:42].	11:42
Aquilina Howell	I warned them that I had all my junk out.	11:42
Tywanna Whorley	That was Thursday. [indistinct 00:11:52] working. [indistinct 00:11:53]	11:48
Aquilina Howell	But two others, and most of the houses were single family dwellings and then the stores and cafes and tended to be clustered on Macomb Street. That was the business street, if you could call it that.	12:04
Tywanna Whorley	I heard about Macomb.	12:38
Aquilina Howell	Macomb, huh.	12:38
Tywanna Whorley	[indistinct 00:12:39]	12:38
Aquilina Howell	Well, that's where the Knights of Pythias Hall Lodge, was a Knights of Pythias Lodge there, and they had meeting rooms. Then downstairs, they had a large conference-type room, an open room where they had dances and his orchestra would go and play.	12:40
Aquilina Howell	In fact, my husband, he was a manager of an insurance company, so he worked with the fellow who booked the dances and they had White booking agents really, and then they had Blacks who [indistinct 00:13:25], and the Lincoln High School Auditorium was like a civic center because all the meetings and the—Does that look fat on me?	13:00
Aquilina Howell	All the meetings, civic meetings, and I remember, there were several times when churches were being built, and they had to move out, their congregations out there would have church at Lincoln High. In fact, Lincoln High School was like a community center.	13:40
Tywanna Whorley	[indistinct 00:14:04]	14:02
Aquilina Howell	Uh-huh, because it had a large auditorium and plays and different entertainment things were scheduled there. There was no other place to have them.	14:04
Tywanna Whorley	The next question I was going to ask you was on the recreation, what would you say Black communities [indistinct 00:14:24]?	14:15
Aquilina Howell	Well, they did a lot of hunting and fishing, and we had sandlot baseball teams and the schools, the football and basketball teams were very popular as the sort of way of, and then Lincoln High School campus, the playground equipment was used by the community.	14:25
Aquilina Howell	Oh, we had a theater. Let's see, Capital Theater, I think, a Black woman ran, her name was Maggie Yellowhair, and she was supposed to have some Indian blood. Then finally they built a theater on Tennessee Street that was—And they would have them.	14:54
Tywanna Whorley	How close was that—	15:28
Aquilina Howell	Now, at one time, the churches used to have religious films. I remember there was a Black man named, what was his name? Something Hawk, who used to go around to the communities and show pictures of like the Resurrection of Christ. They were kind of, well, I won't call them crude, but very basic-type movies.	15:28
Aquilina Howell	Then there was a theater down near the railroad track called The Fan Theater. And it was called The Fan because—The building is still on there across from the Civic Center, that little area. I think there are some electrical companies or something are down there. And if you notice on one of the facade of the building that is shaped like fans, it's a stucco building, and they called it the Fan Theater.	16:02
Aquilina Howell	I remember that the music was played by—They had piano music and between the acts and even during the time of the film, they were silent films, and I remember it was a big fat, he looked like Chubby Checker. He used to play a—Found his name was Ham, they called him Ham Coleman, because his brother used to be the postman. He was Sam Coleman. The Coleman Library is named for him, because he was a family around here.	16:38
Stacey Scales	[indistinct 00:17:17]	17:17
Aquilina Howell	In fact, my sister belongs to it.	17:17
Stacey Scales	Could you tell something about it?	17:25
Aquilina Howell	Well, I'm going to let her tell you.	17:29
Stacey Scales	But she said she going talk to me.	17:33
Aquilina Howell	You talked to her?	17:33
Stacey Scales	I thought said yeah.	17:34
Aquilina Howell	She told me when I—	17:35
Stacey Scales	How did you know all that she would say?	17:36
Aquilina Howell	Let me see if she's two on here. She lives in Woodgate, and her husband collected antique cars. Did you know Herbert had a family?	17:39
Tywanna Whorley	Oh, is that your sister?	17:57
Aquilina Howell	Yes.	17:57
Tywanna Whorley	Oh, Nina?	17:57
Aquilina Howell	Yeah, yeah.	17:57
Tywanna Whorley	[indistinct 00:18:06]	17:57
Aquilina Howell	You don't know. She teaches at FSU. She's in the nursing department. Oh, he was just, and he would listen to me—	18:07
Aquilina Howell	Turn off that machine. Turn off that machine and talk to me. I said, turn off that machine and talk to me. Call me immediately. She has a machine on.	18:14
Tywanna Whorley	Older sister, huh?	18:31
Aquilina Howell	That's what she says. But I'm not, I'm the kindest thing that's ever happened to her.	18:33
Tywanna Whorley	The kindest thing.	18:45
Aquilina Howell	See, there were two girls and two boys, and I was the oldest, but I wasn't bossy. I just [indistinct 00:19:00] more.	18:46
Stacey Scales	Do you remember the separate water fountains?	19:00
Aquilina Howell	Yes, very well. I remember they had separate water fountains in PW Wilson. That was one of the old clothing stores. It was a department store, really, and I'd take my children shopping and they had a fountain, White and Colored, they called it. And we used to kid and say, "It had colored water." (laughs)	19:03
Aquilina Howell	And I remember when the kids would go, "Mama, can we have some water?" And I said "mm-hmm," and they'd drink at the White fountain. I wasn't even paying attention to them, I just wouldn't say anything, because it was nearly [indistinct 00:19:41], but they were nice, because we—	19:26
Stacey Scales	Was there a difference between the two fountains?	19:43
Aquilina Howell	Location.	19:47
Tywanna Whorley	Not quality?	19:50
Aquilina Howell	Huh?	19:51
Tywanna Whorley	It was the same?	19:52
Aquilina Howell	More or less, but not really.	19:52
Tywanna Whorley	That's weird.	19:52
Aquilina Howell	It's weird?	19:52
Tywanna Whorley	It's weird. [indistinct 00:20:01] I lived in Miami. Miami wasn't like that.	19:52
Aquilina Howell	Well, Miami was a-	20:04
Tywanna Whorley	City.	20:06
Aquilina Howell	—city and a recently built one, and so then the population was different. The thing about it, the weird thing about it was that they were White. Because see, I was in the school system during integration, and being a Black woman, you would expect antagonistic attitudes. But the people were nice.	20:06
Aquilina Howell	Well, I was nice too, but soon, and I found out that people, the more insecure people are, the more they tend to want to be over you.	20:33
Tywanna Whorley	They're insecure. It's like, "Oh great, I have to be the [indistinct 00:21:02]."	21:02
Aquilina Howell	Exactly. I also know that people tended to fear coming to school, because they never came unless it was a problem. We always tried to have some sort of outreach-type things, and I remember during integration when we, well, the edict or whatever it was that segregation would no longer be tolerated.	21:02
Aquilina Howell	We used to meet separately, the White administrators and the Black administrators. We met at Vaughn School, and I'm looking wide.	21:39
Stacey Scales	[indistinct 00:21:59]	21:50
Aquilina Howell	I don't mind how I look, but the size. I look like Buddha.	22:01
Aquilina Howell	And we met separately. We would meet at the second and something, two thirds was at—Don't let me get too specific about those data, sound like the Whitewater hearing. Did you see Bentsen today? Did you see him being interviewed, Secretary of Treasury Bentsen?	22:04
Tywanna Whorley	[indistinct 00:22:41]	22:37
Aquilina Howell	I'm talking tomorrow because [indistinct 00:22:42]	22:40
Tywanna Whorley	[indistinct 00:22:42]	22:41
Aquilina Howell	Yes.	22:41
Tywanna Whorley	Oh, I'm sorry. How's it going?	22:41
Aquilina Howell	They are something, honestly. But he handled it. He said, "Do you remember that?" He said, "Well, I cannot say that I remember. I recall, but I don't remember details," some sort of way, antics with semantics, the words, you can't pin me down.	22:46
Aquilina Howell	But then I remember the day that we met, we used to meet as a group, a total group. The superintendent would have meetings, especially if it were something that concerned a federal law or whatever, and that day the question came up as to how we were going to handle integration. In fact, if we were going to, and so he said, "Yes. Well, I don't think we need to ponder the question. We just decide how it's to be done."	23:02
Aquilina Howell	That was Freeman Ashmore. He was the superintendent then, and then we had to integrate the teachers. So you had to get the total number of teachers, and what subjects they taught and then placed them in various schools. Of course, the White principals, some of the teachers, they knew by reputation. They said, "Well, I'll take Miss [indistinct 00:24:19]."	23:48
Aquilina Howell	I said, "No, we won't take all of them," because they were trying to get what they thought was the better teachers." I said, "All of them are good teachers." And I remember one time, the county staff, by that time I was on the county staff. I was counselor at old Lincoln High School, and then I was made secondary supervisor over Black schools, and then we'd meet.	24:19
Aquilina Howell	So this day we were trying to integrate the junior high schools then. We had a list of the teachers, and they were not familiar with all the teachers, so we designed a little systems. I'll tell you what, the Black teachers will make an X or check or whatever, so then you know. So when they would call, "Is this teacher Black or White?" It's X, check, X or whatever.	24:53
Aquilina Howell	The teacher lives down the street. She was extremely fair. She looked fair, had nice hair and everything, Carrie Johnson. And so when they were asking, "Aquilina, Carrie Johnson, what is she?" Pretty sure I said, "X check," and it's now, "Which one now? She's either X or a check." I said, "She's an X check." (laughs)	25:26
Aquilina Howell	Because I always, whenever people were very serious, I never could be serious, but very practical and very, whatever I had to do, I did it well.	25:53
Stacey Scales	The education that you received, have things changed very much between that education and the one more recently?	26:06
Aquilina Howell	Well, actually, I think education depends upon the individual, not so much what institution. If you have parents who are interested in their children, how they learn and what they, because say for instance, my grandmother, I guess, she went to about fifth grade, but my grandfather was a teacher and he was very dignified.	26:23
Aquilina Howell	In fact, he was one who, an entrepreneur too, because he made gold jewelry, the wire, the gold wire. He'd make pins and earrings and all. Then he used to go downtown and he had a folding stool with his jewelry. And he'd go downtown on what we call the Front Street, that was Monroe Street and sell. On Saturdays, a lot of the farmers would come in down to what they call the farmer's market, but they called it the Rascal's Yard, down near the Civic Center where the Civic Center is now.	26:50
Aquilina Howell	They would put up there carts and you've seen vendors on the street. That's what they would do, and he used to sell downtown. And he also took orders for clothing, men's suit. In fact, they were manufacturers in Chicago. I think the company that he worked for was in Chicago, and they would send what they call samplers.	27:36
Aquilina Howell	That's the swatches of material, and it was hooked together so you could go through and look at, and then you had pictures of the suits that could be made. And he had to take the measurement. He was very meticulous. He was good at that kind of thing. Then you'd send it away, and they'd make the suit and then send it back to you, because I'm sure they had standard sizes, if they would just compare and send that. He did that for years.	28:10
Tywanna Whorley	[indistinct 00:28:51]	28:48
Aquilina Howell	No, he had a little black suitcase. He'd go around and then you'd call if you wanted to get a measurement for the suit, and then sometimes people would come to the house. I'm just remembering all of this. He also sold the Crisis magazine, the Crisis NAACP, the Crisis.	28:51
Aquilina Howell	I remember one year he went over to Quincy, and he was selling, had his clothes and his jewelry and stuff, and then he was selling Crisis and the authorities, because at that time you really couldn't belong to the NAACP.	29:16
Tywanna Whorley	[indistinct 00:29:39]	29:35
Stacey Scales	Was it [indistinct 00:29:43]?	29:41
Aquilina Howell	I used to see the Ku Klux Klan. They used to march. Every so often, they would march in the Black neighborhoods. But my grandmother, our family was always very, well, strong-willed, and the women, they taught you that you were as good as anybody and that you didn't—My grandmother had 13 children. Some of them died in infancy.	29:48
Aquilina Howell	We were taught to, you worked hard, you kept the house and the yard clean, but you went to school. Everybody went to school. I went to Florida A&M and my mother did too and her sisters, and all of them were teachers except three. One moved to Chicago, and she was a cateress. She did catering at wealthy homes. She was an excellent cook and baker, and that's other, and they would call up, it's just catering now, and say that, "I'm having a party, will you, da, da, da?" And then she sold well too.	30:18
Aquilina Howell	She would go in homes and make curtains, drapery, altar clothing for the children. Because I remember she used to send large boxes of clothing that some of her clients, because they were wealthy. I mean, I think change clothes, and I remember they used to get things from Marshall Field, that was a big department store in Chicago.	31:03
Tywanna Whorley	[indistinct 00:31:34]	31:30
Aquilina Howell	But to get back to schooling, Florida A&M always had a history of excellence. They may not have called it excellence then, but you were taught to do well, whatever you were going to do. I remember we used to have vespers every Sunday afternoon and we wore uniforms. You had to, blue skirts and white blouses, a navy blue coat suit.	31:34
Aquilina Howell	That was standard when you came to college. You had to have that for the Wednesday march and then on Sundays. We had Line of March and you'd march, and the band playing and take your seats in the auditorium. After I got my BS degree, you couldn't go to Florida State because it was not integrated. But the—	32:06
Tywanna Whorley	Oh really? You couldn't go to Florida State?	32:33
Aquilina Howell	No, you couldn't go to Florida State, you couldn't go to Florida State. But the Board of Regents gave you what they call an out-of-state scholarship, and they would give you money. You could go to a northern university.	32:37
Tywanna Whorley	[indistinct 00:32:51]	32:49
Aquilina Howell	Yeah, you couldn't. But I went to Boston University because my uncle lived there. Then, after I got married, my husband's people lived in New York, so I transferred to NYU, and that's where I got my degree.	32:51
Tywanna Whorley	Really?	33:10
Aquilina Howell	Mm-hmm.	33:11
Tywanna Whorley	Can you [indistinct 00:33:15]?	33:11
Aquilina Howell	Oh yeah. When I went to the registrar's office, I had sent, you know how you were always meticulous about doing things on time, and I had my money in and my registration and everything. When I got to the registrar's office, they would call your name out, whatever, to come to the table to complete your registration.	33:17
Aquilina Howell	So this woman, Miss Raine, Bessie Raine. I never shall forget her name. She was a little short, pleasant looking woman. She said, "Aquilina Casanas?" I said, "No, Aquilina Casañas." "From Tallahassee, Florida?" I said, "Yes, I am." And she kept hesitating, so I said, "I sent my registration in early now." So she said, "Aquilina Casañas from Florida."	33:43
Aquilina Howell	I said, "Yes, I bet you expected some exotic Spanish beauty, but I'm afraid I'm it." (laughs)	34:16
Aquilina Howell	I don't know why, but I always—My sister said, "Will you please be serious?" I said, "Of course, I'm serious." And so she started laughing.	34:27
Tywanna Whorley	[indistinct 00:34:42]	34:40
Aquilina Howell	And I read her mind because she could not stop laughing, and I read people very well. I'm not so bright, but that's one strength that I have. I read people.	34:45
Tywanna Whorley	[indistinct 00:34:59] a lot of people.	34:58
Aquilina Howell	But that's my karma. That's my Cuban heritage. You do have to deal with a lot of people. I was a Daddy's girl. I really was. I was the oldest child.	35:03
Tywanna Whorley	[indistinct 00:35:17] first one.	35:18
Aquilina Howell	First one, and he taught me Spanish. In fact, when I came to Florida A&M, I knew Spanish already because he had taught me at home, and that was one of my minors. I majored in English and history and minored in Spanish. But I didn't have any problems in grad school or away.	35:19
Aquilina Howell	Well, if you're disciplined, and well, I loved books. I loved reading, as far as [indistinct 00:35:53] a junkie like it is.	35:50
Tywanna Whorley	So when did you go to NYU, in what year?	35:52
Aquilina Howell	'50, when did I finish? '50, you don't remember, do you? '56, not '57, see, I went summers.	36:02
Tywanna Whorley	What happened [indistinct 00:36:20]	36:19
Aquilina Howell	It was a funny thing about Tallahassee, and I think, well, I remember Governor Collins. He was very, although he was Southern, well, you know the history of it, in fact, we named the library from, I was on that board too, to select the site, because at one time they wanted to put it out. I said, "No, we need to put it right in." They said, "Well, it's certainly a high crime there."	36:24
Aquilina Howell	I said, "There's two cemeteries between," and I said, "People in Frenchtown are not gossipy. Besides, we need to get the—" I was always, well, not outspoken, but I just couldn't stand. I couldn't stand being—But nice, nice.	36:49
Aquilina Howell	But he was responsible a lot for the attitude and atmosphere. Now, not all, because people in Tallahassee, they were more or less, the races, the certain classes, there was only the newcomers, and then sometimes you find the economic situation triggered discord. A lot of times people at different economic levels would do this in order for them to maintain their power.	37:09
Aquilina Howell	Well, you've read this history of after slavery, that the rich planters and so forth would tell the poor White farmers and so forth that Blacks were taking your—	38:03
Tywanna Whorley	[indistinct 00:38:18] taking your land.	38:19
Aquilina Howell	Yeah, taking your land.	38:20
Tywanna Whorley	You better watch it.	38:20
Aquilina Howell	You better watch it. You better watch them.	38:20
Tywanna Whorley	[indistinct 00:38:23]	38:22
Aquilina Howell	[indistinct 00:38:23], and this was true. But we were taught, in addition to being taught that you were as good as anybody, you were taught to be fair. And since Daddy was Cuban, the White community accepted him. Well, I won't say they, well, there were not many foreigners in town, I remember.	38:22
Tywanna Whorley	[indistinct 00:38:51]	38:49
Aquilina Howell	There isn't, especially in this area. I remember there was one Chinese family downtown, where the Sheraton is, and they had ran a laundry and Daddy used to wear the detachable collars and cuffs that they iron.	38:52
Aquilina Howell	You've seen them with the collar buttons, because I remember, "I need my collar buttons, [indistinct 00:39:16] dropped the [indistinct 00:39:16]," and I'd be down looking for the collar button, because the shirts had a little flip back there. Then you put the collar buttons in, and then put it in the—	39:10
Tywanna Whorley	And the collar [indistinct 00:39:26].	39:25
Aquilina Howell	That's right, and they say—	39:25
Tywanna Whorley	[indistinct 00:39:26]	39:25
Aquilina Howell	Then I used to have to go up sometimes and take the collars and pick them up. Well, let me, do a lot of things that a lot of girls wouldn't do. Did you read the article where I said that when I first got this job, I was not as intimidated about it in terms of being a woman, because I was very comfortable with men, because Daddy used to—	39:26
Aquilina Howell	See, he worked at Chevrolet Place, at Ford Motor Company. He did not have a, I guess, he went about the eighth grade, but he read a lot, and he talked to you, like he played—There's his mandolin. I'd sit it down there and then.	40:06
Aquilina Howell	He played the mandolin, he played the guitar, but he preferred the mandolin, and he played a clarinet. You see this picture? That's my husband there, behind on a short table, and he loved literature. I remember when we went to Spain, a lot of the places that he talked about, and he read Cervantes and Don Quixote de La Mancha, all the Spanish literature.	40:27
Aquilina Howell	He knew Spanish literature, he knew English literature. He knew a lot about Cuban history. He knew a lot about science. Honestly, he was just a versatile, well, he read a lot and encouraged me to read. So talking about education, when you leave home, if you have a certain background and a love for learning, it comes easy. I didn't ever feel a deficit.	41:09
Tywanna Whorley	[indistinct 00:41:43]	41:39
Aquilina Howell	As a Black, no, because they were important. In fact, I was named for his mother and for his sister, [indistinct 00:42:02]. I don't know, I think the fact that he taught me Spanish, and I used to hold the light for him to repair cars, and all the neighborhood boys used to come down because he'd help them make kites.	41:46
Aquilina Howell	I was always around a lot of bars and heating the glue for the flags, because at that time you had to, the glue came in sheets and you put it in, it looked like a double boiler, a pot, and then you put it on water and then you heat it. Then they had soldering irons. I used to have to heat the soldering irons. In fact, Daddy made a wood house for me because I used to saw wood, and so he made this wood house. I remember he put—You know what a wood house is?	42:19
Stacey Scales	Yes, ma'am.	43:04
Aquilina Howell	You do? Well, they-	43:04
Tywanna Whorley	[indistinct 00:43:07]	43:04
Aquilina Howell	You know the little—Well, they used to just have two cross pieces on either side, but Daddy sliced, where they welded it and put a heavy screws and put a third piece there so it wouldn't be rickety. I used to make my brother and sister sit on the thing while I sawed.	43:07
Aquilina Howell	I didn't have to do it, and that's why they said I was bossy. They used to tell me, we always had to scrub the floors and all that. I said, "Well, all right, today we are going to have to scrub." And they said, "She just like a sergeant, said she can't stop talking about what we go do then give us the mop."	43:25
Stacey Scales	[indistinct 00:43:54]	43:50
Aquilina Howell	So I never had any feelings about a woman now. Whatever a woman does, she must do twice as well to be thought half as good. But fortunately, it's not difficult. Have you seen that sign? I had one up in my office, because—	43:55
Tywanna Whorley	[indistinct 00:44:06] every woman has to do, she must do twice.	44:05
Aquilina Howell	She must do twice as, yeah, to be thought half as good as a man. But fortunately, that's not difficult.	44:06
Tywanna Whorley	That's true. When did you first become aware that there was that separation [indistinct 00:44:40]?	44:28
Aquilina Howell	Oh, you knew that. I mean, you grew up but you weren't intimidated by it. Because see, I started out by telling you Daddy was Cuban and there were a lot of Syrians, the Capelutos, but he was very friendly with. Do you know any Capelutos?	44:43
Aquilina Howell	I think Capelutos ran an exterminator place, and the Deans, now, they were really good family friends. In fact, they are now, because Kent, and I remember when Kent was born, and in fact, my sister babysat for Kent, his mother was a nurse. Charlie and Mike, in fact, Charlie built this house.	44:57
Aquilina Howell	So that sort of relationship was—I was around Whites a lot because of Daddy, and Daddy took me everywhere. I remember he worked down at a blacksmith shop. I tell you, he was versatile. He could do almost anything. You've seen people who just catch on.	45:37
Stacey Scales	He ran a blacksmith shop?	46:01
Aquilina Howell	Mm-hmm, it's where you go down and help a friend of ours who, well, he was what they call a farrier. He used to shoe the horses for the plantations, Buster Edwards. But Daddy knew how to use a foundry and all like that. But he didn't consider himself a Blacksmith, but he did something, anything you could think of. He had a lot of hobbies.	46:01
Aquilina Howell	I remember when the new cars would come out, they always had a big company like General Motors and all that had what they—	46:37

Aquilina Howell	—a lot of times they would send Daddy, which was kind of unusual, send a Black. And I remember one trip when he went to Jacksonville, he brought me a book called The Boy's Book of Astronomy.	0:01
Tywanna Whorley	The Boy's Book [indistinct 00:00:17].	0:16
Aquilina Howell	Uh-huh. Oh, he loved astronomy too. And we used to go outside at night and he identified all the constellations.	0:17
Tywanna Whorley	[indistinct 00:00:36].	0:29
Aquilina Howell	Yes. A lot of simulations. And we'd go outside sometimes and look at the clouds and decide what sort of—the cumulus and they—What's the name of those clouds? But they would form figures and Daddy said, "Look at it. It look like a dragon." He used to hunt and fish a lot, and he would drag us down to the Shell Point. Have you ever been to Shell Point?	0:36
Tywanna Whorley	[indistinct 00:01:09].	1:07
Aquilina Howell	Uh-huh.	1:09
Tywanna Whorley	[indistinct 00:01:11].	1:09
Aquilina Howell	And we used to catch fiddler crabs and bring them back, and we always had something, pets and that sort of thing in the house.	1:11
Tywanna Whorley	[indistinct 00:01:28].	1:23
Aquilina Howell	Now, my husband, by that time I had married and he was manager of an insurance company. My father had died, but Sam was almost like a second father to the family. In fact, you should have heard what Herbert said about him when we had our 50th anniversary. He said how much Sam was like a member—Give me that. The second. No, the second album. No, not that one. Mm-hmm.	1:32
Tywanna Whorley	Oh, the second album, not the second [indistinct 00:02:14].	2:11
Aquilina Howell	They piled up here. This is my husband and Sam and Herbert. She knows Herbert. At his birthday party, they gave toasts and things about him and all, and that was one of the things that Herbert said, that it was just like a father.	2:13
Tywanna Whorley	[indistinct 00:02:45]?	2:44
Aquilina Howell	Uh-huh. Here's Herbert now, and this is our grandson. They gave tributes to him and they were just saying how—And that's Jim Bailey with my husband.	2:45
Tywanna Whorley	[indistinct 00:02:57]	2:57
Aquilina Howell	Oh, dear. Oh, which one?	2:57
Tywanna Whorley	[indistinct 00:03:20].	3:17
Aquilina Howell	With Herbert and my grandson. Oh, dear. Now, I have talked enough. Bye. (laughs)	3:21
Tywanna Whorley	You're tired?	3:34
Aquilina Howell	No, I'm not tired. You all are tired.	3:36
Tywanna Whorley	[indistinct 00:03:43].	3:36
Aquilina Howell	Oh. Well, see, tuition was not as high as it is now, and I walked to school. I used to walk. But your senior year in high school—	3:45
Aquilina Howell	Did you see the retirement pictures? Show 'em to her. It might be something somebody want.	3:56
Aquilina Howell	The senior year in college, you had to board. You had to stay on campus.	3:56
Aquilina Howell	No, the bottom one.	4:20
Aquilina Howell	There was so much going on that you needed to be there for the various clubs, and they used to have a lot of speakers coming in and different affairs related to you.	4:21
Stacey Scales	[indistinct 00:04:41].	4:39
Aquilina Howell	Mm-hmm. Then they moved them. I'm not that old.	4:39
Stacey Scales	[indistinct 00:05:01].	4:39
Aquilina Howell	It should be in the Black archives. They should have a accurate history of it. And then they moved it because Old Lincoln High School used to be—You know where the music building is on FSU's campus. It was there and then they moved it to the site in the Black neighborhood. That was what they said, was they moved.	5:03
Tywanna Whorley	[indistinct 00:05:35].	5:31
Aquilina Howell	That was the ironic thing about moving out here. This is really one of the more something locations, the hill and the—	5:34
Aquilina Howell	Did you see the civil rights report? Didn't I give you a copy of civil rights report? Yeah. The civil rights. They said that we were cited as one of the—was it 13 areas? You brought it back then? Now, you know that I'm going to remember everything, don't you? I have a memory like a—I know you want to say elephant. (laughs)	6:03
Aquilina Howell	Aren't y'all through with me yet?	6:45
Stacey Scales	I can give you a couple more questions.	6:54
Tywanna Whorley	Yeah. It's still on. Also, I wanted to get a picture of you sitting in this chair so I could get the plants in the background.	6:54
Stacey Scales	All right.	7:02
Aquilina Howell	Those were plants that people sent when my husband passed.	7:10
Tywanna Whorley	[indistinct 00:07:11].	7:10
Aquilina Howell	I don't know. And those are outside too, that's planted out there.	7:10
Tywanna Whorley	[indistinct 00:07:16].	7:14
Aquilina Howell	No. No. I was just saying that they were ones that they sent when he died.	7:16
Tywanna Whorley	[indistinct 00:07:19].	7:19
Aquilina Howell	Yeah.	7:19
Tywanna Whorley	[indistinct 00:07:39].	7:19
Aquilina Howell	Well, they were in different locales but you kept up with it. [indistinct 00:07:44] and Black groups and all of them, they were—In fact, Reverend Steele was our minister. CK Steele, you've heard of him? Did you see a statue in the—	7:38
Tywanna Whorley	Mm-hmm.	7:55
Aquilina Howell	And Herbert was his [indistinct 00:08:05] he sort of trained him.	7:55
Tywanna Whorley	[indistinct 00:08:09]?	7:55
Aquilina Howell	Oh, yeah.	8:08
Tywanna Whorley	[Indistinct 00:08:15] Black community, were they afraid that things were getting worse in Florida?	8:08
Aquilina Howell	Well, those things ebb and flow. When incidents happen, there are always those who, "Oh, woe is me," and then there are those who come together and try to diffuse feelings and all. Because I remember when the Ku Klux Klan used to march, they would just silently walk down the street, intimidation. And I never shall forget my grandma, she said, "I wish they would come in here." She had a gun about as old as a musket, and she'd sit up there with this gun, with her shotgun. And we were not—	8:18
Aquilina Howell	Well, not passive but not troublemakers either. But we weren't going to stand for just any treatment. And I remember they used to come to churches and just come in, silently, and sit and no disruption, just sit. And I remember grandma said, "I saw—" I forgot he was an insurance agent, and she said, "I saw him because I could tell by his shoes and the pants he had." He had on his regalia.	9:07
Aquilina Howell	I think that communicates itself and people find that you are not afraid of them, and yet you are not belligerent and not submissive either. And we were always interested in trying to better our conditions and trying to be good citizens, and so people knew this. Because even now, I remember people used say, "Are you Casañas daughter?" Well, they knew him as a careful craftsman who tried to do good work. In fact, he'd tell you, "Anything worth doing is worth doing well," and he didn't tolerate shabbiness.	9:51
Aquilina Howell	And this is my aunt. This is his sister and that's her husband. He was from Spain. In fact, the only cousins that we have now, those who live in [indistinct 00:11:08], because my grandmother had 13 children but only two of them had children, my mother and an aunt.	10:47
Aquilina Howell	[indistinct 00:11:20] Chicago. And that cousin was a nurse, and she died. Let me show you. This, she is my age. These are [indistinct 00:11:31]. In fact, my niece's named—she's a doctor in [indistinct 00:11:36]. And her son—Well, this is my husband when he was in the nursing home.	11:19
Aquilina Howell	And her son was a translator in Jamaica, in one of the hotels at Ocho Rios in Ocho Rios, Jamaica. And my daughter and I, the three of us went down because he'd never seen us. But he called. I think I told you this. He called. Here he is. That's [indistinct 00:12:14] son. He called and said that—That's her son—He kept leaving messages. So when I called, I said, "Esto es el niño de mi prima?" He said, "Cousin [indistinct 00:12:33], you ought to practice your Spanish. I speak English."	11:45
Aquilina Howell	So when we got down there, they said—Sans Souci is a part of a hotel. It's a very luxurious hotel and rates are extremely high. In fact, they forbid tipping. No tipping. Everything is paid for and the terraces, each room has a balcony. It's really nice. And they gave him a rate, so we were able to go. But when we got there, the manager said, "Well, we really wanted to see y'all because he has talked about you all ever since we found out." But then he had to go back to Cuba because they can't leave.	12:40
Tywanna Whorley	[indistinct 00:13:30]?	13:28
Aquilina Howell	Yeah. Her other son is a musician, and he was in Canada and wrote me and asked me to send him a part to go to his—She writes me all the time and call at for Mother's Day. I don't know why she would write me Mother's Day, but she does. Would you believe that this is what he looks like now? And this is her other son. He was an attorney. But in a Communist country like that, they don't have much chance to practice and all that.	13:30
Aquilina Howell	So he had a van. I had somebody laughing. I said, "He didn't have go to school to be a lawyer and learn to be a mambo king. But he had a van and they'd let them go to Canada, and I think they could go to Spain but for short periods. And she wrote me. Her husband had a stroke.	14:30
Tywanna Whorley	[indistinct 00:15:16].	14:58
Aquilina Howell	The the paper is so whatever, because it's a recent letter. And this is my grandson.	15:16
Aquilina Howell	And she wrote and asked me to send things like Peroxide. And her husband had a stroke, slight stroke, but my daughter was able to—Sometimes you can get through on the telephone instead of [indistinct 00:15:57]. I had the international code and the number and everything. But first thing, "We're sorry. The circuits are busy."	15:25
Tywanna Whorley	Always.	16:12
Aquilina Howell	Yeah, always. "Please try again later. We're sorry. The circuits are busy." And when you get them, you almost don't know what to say.	16:12
Aquilina Howell	(dial tone)	16:15
Aquilina Howell	The machine isn't even coming on now. I have the feeling—Hey, how you doing? It's like a dormitory here because my grandson [indistinct 00:16:50].	16:15
Tywanna Whorley	[indistinct 00:16:50]. No, I'm not.	16:50
Aquilina Howell	Huh?	16:50
Tywanna Whorley	[indistinct 00:16:56].	16:50
Aquilina Howell	Uh-huh. Will you please call me? And I know that [indistinct 00:17:07] that machine on because she said that I was going to call her like I'm doing.	17:03
Tywanna Whorley	[indistinct 00:17:39].	17:38
Aquilina Howell	I'm an eternal optimist.	17:38
Tywanna Whorley	Really?	17:38
Aquilina Howell	Yeah. Because that's the only way you can—	17:38
Aquilina Howell	In fact, I teach the women's Bible class, and this is what I say, that the things that you experienced and now racial disharmony and crime, and so that has been going on since the world began. And where you have cultural differences and economic concerns, really, people tend to fight, to freeze up on you, like you said, territory, at more than just enmity, because you got a lot. You share, but after a while—	17:38
Aquilina Howell	Because I remember when my son-in-law finished the School of Business, they were asking, almost begging, the young Black men to get into the corporate world. And after a while you had so many, then it became difficult, and difficult even for Whites at certain levels. Did you read about the conference in Atlanta with Unity, with Hispanics?	18:31
Stacey Scales	Yes.	19:08
Tywanna Whorley	My friend [indistinct 00:19:12] works there.	19:08
Aquilina Howell	Oh, they did. Is [indistinct 00:19:16] still there? Is she with the Constitution?	19:11
Tywanna Whorley	Last time I heard is that [indistinct 00:19:18].	19:16
Aquilina Howell	Atlanta Constitution? You know I get it every Sunday.	19:18
Tywanna Whorley	Yeah. I think she's still there.	19:24
Aquilina Howell	She's still there? Uh-uh. A very vocal one was an Indian journalist, and he talked about the racial—well, they're things that become ingrained. He said using the term, "The vanishing America," to describe the American Indians. And at one point, this was perhaps applicable, but sometimes people will think of it as a race that's disintegrating or that's not viable. On your Black advisory committee, you remember when it was first formed?	19:25
Tywanna Whorley	I remember.	20:16
Aquilina Howell	And we started saying that—you report crimes in Frenchtown. I remember they ran a series on drugs in Tallahassee. And so every time you turn around, there was the drug runners. And so I called, and group of us said, "Well, you're talking about the street runners, the demand down here. Where did they get the drugs?"	20:18
Aquilina Howell	Whites are bringing them in, Hispanics, and the Colombian cartel. And, yet, only thing you see is that—and in Frenchtown. And then you have to sympathize with journalists because they sell—The reason the Inquirer and the Globe and all that can flourish because it's angelic people who read it. (Tywanna laughs)	20:46
Aquilina Howell	[indistinct 00:21:15] issue and you are remembering the Biblical story about the Samaritan passing on the other side of the street and if people—Well, look at the world today with Haiti. In fact, you talked to Ms. Matthew? You talked to Ms. Matthew?	21:12
Stacey Scales	[indistinct 00:21:39].	21:37
Aquilina Howell	Well, I call her my godmother. Well, her husband was my godfather.	21:39
Stacey Scales	[indistinct 00:21:48]?	21:46
Aquilina Howell	No, he was American, but he was a linguist, really. He spoke Portuguese, Spanish, French fluently, and he was a writer. And when Daddy first came to Tallahassee, he was a professor at the college.	21:48
Aquilina Howell	And he again, like I said, there were so few foreigners in town and then he couldn't speak English that well. Because, see, my mother went down to visit some relatives in Tampa, and he had just come. He was a young man, in his twenties, 25 something, and he came over with two cousins who came from Cuba and Tampa. And then they met my mother and came up here later on, and they got married. That's what happened. There was no other way that she would've met him, just by chance. And everybody asked me, "Was he in tobacco?" But no, he was not. Well, when he took me back to Cuba, there was a man who lived next door who was a cigar-maker. Most of Cubans in here are cigar-makers. You ever been Ybor City?	22:11
Tywanna Whorley	[indistinct 00:23:24].	23:23
Aquilina Howell	Ybor City in Tampa?	23:23
Tywanna Whorley	No.	23:24
Aquilina Howell	Well, that was more or less French—I mean Cuban. Yeah.	23:24
Tywanna Whorley	[indistinct 00:23:32].	23:32
Aquilina Howell	[indistinct 00:23:32], Tampa. That's right. And they still have the big halls where they used to—the cigar-makers. It was a very meticulous craft, because they have to know the tobacco and then they were hand-twisted. There was a balcony around kind of a huge hall, and they would be at the various tables working and all that. They would have men, they called them lectores. They were readers, and they would read the news and read novels to keep them entertained. You've read about that?	23:32
Tywanna Whorley	[indistinct 00:24:20].	24:17
Aquilina Howell	To keep them entertained and read in Spanish, because a lot of them came over and they could not speak Spanish. They settled in Key West and Tampa and in that area, then finally came to Miami.	24:19
Tywanna Whorley	[indistinct 00:24:37].	24:33
Aquilina Howell	Oh, yeah. Yeah. Are you Hispanic?	24:36
Tywanna Whorley	No. I'm Jewish.	24:41
Aquilina Howell	You're Jewish? Well, that's great. So we have Black, Jewish, Norwegian.	24:41
Tywanna Whorley	[indistinct 00:24:47]. Irish.	24:46
Aquilina Howell	Irish. Irish. Yeah. That's why I say we so much alike that it's so crazy to be erecting walls. Oh. And my godfather went to Haiti. In fact, Toussaint Louverture, I got some pictures. I don't want to dig them up.	24:50
Stacey Scales	You got pictures [indistinct 00:25:14]?	25:12
Aquilina Howell	Uh-uh, of his trip in Haiti and of the statue of Toussaint Louverture. Because he was a camera buff like my daddy. Daddy took a lot of pictures. That's why I got so many pictures. Give me that.	25:14
Tywanna Whorley	The big one?	25:25
Aquilina Howell	The big one under the bottom.	25:33
Tywanna Whorley	[indistinct 00:25:38]?	25:33
Aquilina Howell	Mm-hmm. See, I keep piling this stuff up, saying that I'm going organize it and put it in. Now, this was when I was in college, and this is my—Oh, here they are. This is my daddy's half sister. You saw the picture I showed you of—I told you my father's sister's husband from Spain. Well, that's what he looked like after he got older, and this is their wedding, and this is my niña. In fact, I think she knew something about Santeria. And these are my cousins, and here they are here. Now, they married.	25:37
Tywanna Whorley	[indistinct 00:26:41].	26:38
Aquilina Howell	The girls married stonemasons. Oh, here's my grandma right back in here. I really need to have these things developed.	26:41
Tywanna Whorley	[indistinct 00:27:01].	26:57
Aquilina Howell	Mm-hmm. That's my college graduation pass on the back. Oh, here's my father.	27:04
Stacey Scales	Now, this is you right here?	27:09
Aquilina Howell	Uh-huh. That was in front of the old gym.	27:19
Tywanna Whorley	[indistinct 00:27:26] on the back of these [indistinct 00:27:26].	27:25
Aquilina Howell	Yeah, that's right. My daughter, the one in Atlanta, she shoot everything. When she makes a picture, as soon as she get [indistinct 00:27:46].	27:26
Tywanna Whorley	[indistinct 00:27:46] looking at that [indistinct 00:27:47].	27:45
Aquilina Howell	Now let me write his name.	27:47
Tywanna Whorley	Can I get you to—because I got to get [indistinct 00:27:51]—	27:48

Item Info

Title:

Aquilina Howell interview recording, 1994 August 03

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https://idn.duke.edu/ark:/87924/r40g3v74f

Date:

August 3, 1994

Creator:

Howell, Aquilina

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Description:

Name: Aquilina Howell; Date of birth: 1917-05-03; Place of birth: Tallahassee, FL; Occupation(s): educator; administrator; Residence: Tallahassee, FL
Informant ID: 414; Interviewed by: Stacey Scales and Tywanna Whorley.

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RL00170-CS-1531
7a44cb74-35b6-45d6-8e3e-2668248fd6ca
behindtheveil
304b67a6-b20e-440f-837e-2587ec500288
ark:/87924/r40g3v74f
304b67a6-b20e-440f-837e-2587ec500288

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Behind the Veil

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Behind the Veil: Documenting African American Life in the Jim Crow South interviews, photographs, and project records, circa 1864-2011, bulk 1990-2004

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The David M. Rubenstein Rare Book and Manuscript Library acquired the Records of the Behind the Veil Oral History Project from the Duke University Center for Documentary Studies in 1997, 1998, 2000, and 2002.

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Aquilina Howell interview recording, 1994 August 03

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1. Aquilina Howell administrative file, 1994 (1 of 2)

2. Aquilina Howell administrative file, 1994 (2 of 2)

John Hope Franklin Research Center

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