Lillie Fincher interview recording, 1994 June 16

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Lillie Mae Harris Fincher	Well, now, if you go to Clark Atlanta, and you're doing this for Duke—	0:07
Stacey Scales	Right, this is a internship for Duke, for the summer. I'll start off by just asking you your name. I guess, when did you come to Birmingham? The area of Birmingham?	0:14
Lillie Mae Harris Fincher	Okay, my name is Lillie M. Harris Fincher. I was born in the metropolitan city of Birmingham almost 61 years ago. I've been here all of my life, except for about five or six years when I was away.	0:27
Stacey Scales	Really?	0:44
Lillie Mae Harris Fincher	Yes.	0:44
Stacey Scales	So you were born here?	0:45
Lillie Mae Harris Fincher	Yes, born in the general area in which I still live. They tore down my house and now they will never be able to say, "This is where Lillie Fincher was born."	0:49
Stacey Scales	What area was that where you—	0:58
Lillie Mae Harris Fincher	I was born in Titusville.	1:00
Stacey Scales	Titusville?	1:01
Lillie Mae Harris Fincher	Yeah. T-I-T-T-U-S-V-I-L-L-E. Although, in the 1990s, they took one of the Ts out. But that's where I was born. It's in the southwestern section of Birmingham.	1:02
Stacey Scales	Does that place still exist?	1:15
Lillie Mae Harris Fincher	Of course, it does. I live in Titusville now.	1:17
Stacey Scales	Oh, okay. I didn't know.	1:19
Lillie Mae Harris Fincher	That's okay.	1:21
Stacey Scales	Okay. So do you remember the Jim Crow period? And what could you tell me about it?	1:23
Lillie Mae Harris Fincher	I am 60-plus years old. I remember the Jim Crow period in Birmingham. I envision Jim Crowism as being a period when Whites definitely despised Blacks, but that's the way I remember it. And having gone to a school way back then where all of my teachers were White, I have a perception of those teachers with the Whites in the outer world, the secular. So I know exactly, I think, where you're coming from at this point. My teachers were nuns, okay?	1:30
Stacey Scales	So you went to a Catholic—	2:20
Lillie Mae Harris Fincher	Yeah, but I had to live after I left the environs of that White teacher. They too were prejudiced, don't get me wrong. They were missionaries, but they too were prejudiced, as I look back on it. And I had an opportunity to tell them that this past weekend. But yeah, I know what it's like.	2:21
Stacey Scales	What was the name of your school?	2:43
Lillie Mae Harris Fincher	It was Immaculata, I-M-M-A-C-U-L-A-T-A, High School. It was what we refer to today as a K-12 school. Yeah.	2:45
Stacey Scales	So you went from kindergarten?	2:57
Lillie Mae Harris Fincher	I went from 1st grade to 12th grade. And as I told them the other day when they had that reunion, I don't wear blue and I don't buy those little stupid white blouses.	3:01
Stacey Scales	Do you remember your grandparents?	3:14
Lillie Mae Harris Fincher	Of course, I remember my grandparents.	3:15
Stacey Scales	Could you tell me about them?	3:18
Lillie Mae Harris Fincher	Okay, let's take my grandparents on my father's side. I'm named for my grandmother. His father, my father's father, was dead when I was born. So I don't know too much about him. But his grandfather was living. And this is really nice because I had an opportunity to know my great-grandfather all of my growing-up years.	3:22
Lillie Mae Harris Fincher	And to picture him in the back of my mind and to listen to the things that he had to say, it was wonderful. Because I used that part of the baggage that I got from him. I use that today. And I remember my great-grandmother on my mother's side. One thing she used to say all of the time was, "All work is honest work."	3:49
Stacey Scales	What was their occupation? What did they do?	4:21
Lillie Mae Harris Fincher	My grandfather worked for Whites. My great-grandfather worked for Whites in Birmingham. And my great-grandmother on my mother's side was a midwife.	4:23
Stacey Scales	What did—	4:35
Lillie Mae Harris Fincher	And it's amazing when we go back to the family reunion, all these White people come up and say, "You know, so-and-so delivered me." And I'm looking at them and saying, "My great-grandmother delivered this White person."	4:36
Stacey Scales	So you said he worked for Whites?	4:51
Lillie Mae Harris Fincher	Yeah, he worked for Whites. Yard work, whatever they wanted him to do. And I remember my great-grandfather having a cow. And where Loveman Village is today was a golf course and pasture. My grandfather would walk through Loveman Village, stake his cow out in the morning, and go and work for the White folk who lived in West End. And he'd pick it up on his way home. And then—	4:54
Stacey Scales	Yeah, in Loveman Village?	5:23
Lillie Mae Harris Fincher	Loveman Village now occupies what was a golf course and pasture. That's a government project.	5:26
Stacey Scales	Village. So he lived in the same place?	5:39
Lillie Mae Harris Fincher	He lived in the same place. It's amazing. Because of transportation, most people did live in the same place. My great-grandfather lived in Titusville. My grandmother lived in Titusville. Both of them, maternal and paternal. And I was born into Titusville. So yeah, they did that.	5:40
Stacey Scales	So do you remember them telling any old stories about their experiences with maybe—	6:07
Lillie Mae Harris Fincher	Oh yeah. We used to sit on the porch. And I used to hear my maternal grandmother tell stories. But the one thing that I remember most was when my great-grandmother was working. She worked in the laundry. And every day she would come home saying what her boss had said, who was White. And it got to the point, I remember this so very vividly, that she said one evening when we were eating dinner, because I lived there with her until I was 14.	6:13
Lillie Mae Harris Fincher	We were eating dinner. She said, "I don't have to take this from him. I'm going to find me another job." That was that evening. That next day, she left LaDame Cleaners where she was working.	6:45
Stacey Scales	How do you spell that?	7:02
Lillie Mae Harris Fincher	L-A, capital D, A-M-E, LaDame Cleaners, where she was working on her lunch period. And walked seven or eight blocks to another cleaners called Perfection and got a job from which she retired. And she always told us that, "You don't have to be humble, but you do have to be mannerable.	7:03
Stacey Scales	Right.	7:27
Lillie Mae Harris Fincher	Yeah. "You don't have to be humble, but you have to be mannerable."	7:28
Stacey Scales	So would you say that was her way of protesting?	7:33
Lillie Mae Harris Fincher	That was her way of protesting. She was not a violent woman. She did not leave so that Whites would sort of pick on her children who were coming behind her. Because my mother was working at LaDame also. And she didn't want the boss to pick on my mother who was working there. But she just left. It's amazing.	7:35
Stacey Scales	What did your family do for entertainment or to get out if you couldn't go to the places where—	8:17
Lillie Mae Harris Fincher	Well, let me tell you what I used to do when I was a kid, okay. There's the Alabama Theatre and there's a Carver Theatre. And the Carver Theatre was for Blacks and the Alabama Theatre was for Whites. And then there was a Lyric Theatre. There was no way possible for a person of color to go to the Alabama Theatre, but we could go to the Lyric Theatre. And we would walk up the steps, up the steps, and up the steps, and sit in the balcony. We paid the same fee as the Whites. But we had to walk so far up in the back.	8:17
Lillie Mae Harris Fincher	Not knowing any better, my girlfriend and I would go to the Lyric Theatre every Sunday. That was our little thing that we saved up for during the week to go to the Lyric Theatre. Sometimes when the Carver opened, we would go to the Carver Theatre. Now, as for family entertainment, it was what you call just that, family entertainment. Everybody would come to my grandmama's house, they would play music, they would dance, they would tell stories, and they would eat, okay. And this would be on Friday nights or Saturdays.	8:55
Lillie Mae Harris Fincher	But on Sundays, you had to go to church. I mean, there was no ifs, ands, and buts. You had to go to church. Not Baptist church or Methodist Church, or what have you, had to go to church of your choice. I went to Catholic church. In fact, I'm the first Catholic in my family. And I was six years old, going to Catholic church. I don't care how late you stayed up, you had to go to church. I don't care how many— And most of the people like to come to my grandmother's house to have the parties, you know?	9:36
Stacey Scales	Yeah.	10:09
Lillie Mae Harris Fincher	And you'd be up until 11:00 and 12:00. But she got you up bright and early.	10:11
Stacey Scales	Do you ever remember any hard times in the community where—	10:16
Lillie Mae Harris Fincher	People talk about hard times. But when this is all that you have and you are happy, you don't know that these are hard times. I listen now to my mother saying she made 50 cents a day.	10:23
Stacey Scales	Right.	10:36
Lillie Mae Harris Fincher	Yeah. 50 cents a day when she was working in the laundry. And she said, "I never dreamed that I would make $100 a day." She said, "I never even dreamed that part." So on that 50 cents a day, $2.50 a week, we lived. I went to parochial schools on that salary that she had. So if the times were hard, I don't know about it, because if you don't have, you can't miss what you never had, can you?	10:36
Stacey Scales	No.	11:16
Lillie Mae Harris Fincher	All right then. So whether they were hard or not—	11:16
Stacey Scales	Who made the decisions in your family?	11:21
Lillie Mae Harris Fincher	I'm from a strong matriarchal family. A very strong matriarchal family that exists to this present day. Perhaps this affected my own personal children. But my great-grandmother, who was a midwife, was a strong person. Her husband died in a fishing accident. My great-grandfather died in a fishing accident. So Sophronia never married again. But being a midwife and a mother of 11 children, she reared those children, she helped those children, and she taught them so that they could do well.	11:24
Lillie Mae Harris Fincher	I remember my great-grandmother saying that, "If a girl has a baby in the family, I will take the first one. If one of my girls have a baby, that's not married, I will take the first one. But she will be responsible for the rest of her life." And surprisingly, out of 9 girls to live and 1 boy, because she had 18 children all total, she only had 2 girls to have children out of wedlock. And she reared those children as her own. She was really a strong woman. She accumulated property.	12:06
Stacey Scales	Really?	12:53
Lillie Mae Harris Fincher	Yeah, she accumulated property in Talladega County.	12:54
Stacey Scales	So what did she own? Houses?	13:03
Lillie Mae Harris Fincher	Not houses, land. Farming property. People paid my great-grandmother sometimes in land. They paid her in vegetables. They paid her in cows. They paid her in goats, and that kind of thing. Because she was the best midwife at that time in that place. All right. Yeah.	13:04
Stacey Scales	Could you explain your neighborhood? What type of neighborhood it was that you grew up in?	13:31
Lillie Mae Harris Fincher	It was all Black, of course. Oh, no, at that time, it was all Negro. And my street, the street where I grew up was not paved until the mid '40s. Therefore, it was a red mud street. And when it rained, it was impossible to get up that street by all mud and so forth. So my neighborhood had family houses. The house I grew up in had six rooms. That was okay at that particular time. And the neighborhood looks pretty good today because the people were homeowners and not renters.	13:36
Stacey Scales	So most of the people in your neighborhood—	14:36
Lillie Mae Harris Fincher	Everybody on my block owned a home. There was not a rented house on my block. Everybody was a homeowner. I just remember when they paved the streets, "Hey, we didn't know we had this much yard." Because from the steps to across the street, that was where we played with the little— running right here. But when they paved the streets, they paved this. So yeah.	14:36
Stacey Scales	Okay. Were there any places that you weren't allowed to go?	15:00
Lillie Mae Harris Fincher	If I did, I didn't know it, coming up.	15:09
Stacey Scales	No?	15:12
Lillie Mae Harris Fincher	Other than Alabama Theatre, I knew I wasn't allowed to go there. But I was 13 and 14 years old at that time. I do know I can remember things in Birmingham in my teen years when I am becoming aware of other things. In my teen years, I remember going to a Woolworth store, and a girl— I was standing at the counter. And you see I'm very dark, right?	15:13
Stacey Scales	Right.	15:36
Lillie Mae Harris Fincher	So the White girl came here and she says, "What can I help you with?" I said, "I want some lipsticks." She said, "What color do you want? Black?" And there was no black lipstick at that time, okay. So she was being facetious. And I said, "Yes, may I see it?" And the heifer walked away because she was being facetious. And I latched right onto that at that time, okay.	15:37
Lillie Mae Harris Fincher	She was perhaps thrown off on my being, at that time, a Negro, and because of the color of my skin. "What color do you want? Black?" And when I said "Yes," that threw her for a loop. I don't think she ever did that. But I can imagine what she said when she went home. I can remember during my teen years, wanting to buy a dress at Adorable shop. And they told me I could buy it, but I couldn't try it on. They told me that I could buy it but—	16:09
Lillie Mae Harris Fincher	And I remember that day just like it was yesterday. There were a lot of shops downtown, but Adorable was the shop. So I walked around and I finally found the dress that I wanted. And I told the lady, I said, "I like this dress but I don't know whether it would fit. May I take it home?" And she said, "Oh, no, you can try it on here." Saving grace for the rest of the White folk downtown.	16:46
Stacey Scales	So about how old were you when that happened?	17:24
Lillie Mae Harris Fincher	I was 16. I was 16. I bought that dress because she let me try it on. But Adorable would not let people of my color try on dresses at that time. And those kinds of things sticks in my mind. I remember coming back here after I'd been away and—	17:28
Stacey Scales	Where did you go?	17:53
Lillie Mae Harris Fincher	Just away. But I had sort of an accent because I'd been away for five years. I was in school and I was teaching and so forth. And I came back here to register to vote. That's the key. That's why I asked you about Mr. Patton. I went down to the courthouse to register to vote. Flippant but not disrespectful. And they gave me a test. They gave me a test and I took that test. I never shall forget, the very next day—	17:55
Lillie Mae Harris Fincher	Oh, after I took the test, you have to come into a room similar to this. And there were three White men sitting there. And they asked you questions. They asked me all kinds of personal questions. Did I have a boyfriend? Was I married? Did I have had children? Where did I come from? How come my voice sounded like that? And the very next day in the mail, I got a letter saying I had failed the exam. A basic exam on the Constitution.	18:42
Lillie Mae Harris Fincher	I have a master's degree in education, a bachelor's degree in social studies. I had taught the Constitution to immigrants in New York for two years, and I failed that test. So I took that letter to Emory Jackson, who is now deceased. But Emory called Mr. Patton, and they handled it. It was on the eve though of a new Civil Rights Movement when I got back here.	19:17
Lillie Mae Harris Fincher	But can you imagine that I failed a test on the Constitution where I had been teaching the Constitution to immigrants who were trying to get their citizenship? And most of the people in my immigrant class passed, but I could not pass that literacy test in Birmingham.	19:52
Stacey Scales	So how would you say that your education differed from your parents and grandparents?	20:17
Lillie Mae Harris Fincher	Well, my grandparents did not get any further than elementary school, okay. All four of them. My great-grandparents, my great-grandfather and great-grandmother, didn't get that far. Third or fourth grade. But my education is different because, number one, it was parochial. But my mother went to Washington School. It's still Washington School. And they went a half day because there was one school, few teachers, and a lot of children. So someone in the morning session, someone in the afternoon session.	20:21
Lillie Mae Harris Fincher	And they achieved under those circumstances. I went to school all day, but I went to a school where you had first grade on one side of the room and second grade on other side of the room. So it was similar. I guess it was different. If I had gone to public schools, like my mother, is that we would've gone all day. We would've had lunches given to us and that kind of thing where my mom and her sister and brother did not have that. They went a half day.	21:17
Lillie Mae Harris Fincher	But my people have always been for education. My great-grandmama used to say, "Listen to the children. They have been to school. Listen to the children. They have been to school." And she was right. She believed in education. And she used to say, "When they go to school, they don't go to play. They go to learn." She used to say that all the time. "You don't go to play. You go to learn." And she told us that.	21:54
Stacey Scales	This was your grandmother?	22:36
Lillie Mae Harris Fincher	My great-grandmother.	22:36
Stacey Scales	Great-grandmother.	22:37
Lillie Mae Harris Fincher	Yeah. And my grandmother had a saying. We love this one. "You don't have to get A's and B's in all your subjects, because God gives you your talents. But I'm telling you to keep your mouth closed and bring your A in conduct." And yeah, I used to say, "Well, oh, God, these things—." I don't have a report card from my senior high school year. Because when I saw that C in conduct, I tore it up. I was not going to take that card home. A C in conduct. And my grandmama told you what?	22:38
Stacey Scales	So she established the value?	23:24
Lillie Mae Harris Fincher	She established that value. "God gave you your talents. You may not make all A's and B's in your subject matter. But I am telling you to keep your mouth closed and obey those teachers." But yeah. But you need to know my mother has a PhD degree now. And I don't have one.	23:28
Stacey Scales	But she's—	23:54
Lillie Mae Harris Fincher	Yeah, my mother is the first Black woman in Birmingham to have a PhD degree.	23:54
Stacey Scales	What's her name?	24:03
Lillie Mae Harris Fincher	Gertrude C Sanders. Yeah. So education was— Well, the importance of education was given to us by that strong matriarchal Sophronia. It was enhanced by my grandmother, Mabel.	24:06
Stacey Scales	Mabel.	24:23
Lillie Mae Harris Fincher	These are maternal people. And my mother just saw that there was a need for it.	24:26
Stacey Scales	Who disciplined the children?	24:34
Lillie Mae Harris Fincher	My momma, my grandmother. But that's a funny thing that they never said anything twice. Never said anything. I remember once I was getting ready to go to the basketball game in 1949, '47. Anyway, I was ready. I had made my little thing at school what we were going to do and who we were going to meet. And I noticed that the Sunday before, she had been talking to the priest. They were talking, talking, talking. So yeah.	24:38
Lillie Mae Harris Fincher	But anyway, to make a long story short, she knew I was going to meet these folk. I got ready to go to the basketball game. My new skirt, my new shoes, my new sweater. And she said, "You can't go to the basketball game. So you may as well help me grade these papers." I just stood and looked at her. I knew not to say, "What? Why? What? Who? How come?" I bet you I stood there for 20 minutes, tears lapping. She never said another word except put the papers on the table. And I graded papers and I missed that basketball game. And I missed seeing that little man that I was going to see. But she never said it twice.	25:23
Lillie Mae Harris Fincher	Now I notice that parents tell children things two and three times. Even me. Even my children. I had to tell them two or three times. But my grandmother and my mother never said things twice. And my grandmother on my father's side was saying that— She worked for a White family. She took in washing and ironing at home. That's another thing. I'd go by her house and I remember ironing a pillow slip for her 10 times. And she gave me a nickel. I almost died.	26:23
Stacey Scales	Your mother?	27:04
Lillie Mae Harris Fincher	My grandmother on my daddy's side, she worked for those Boozerliners and those other folk. And then she'd bring the washing and ironing home. She'd work all day cleaning their house and bring their washing and ironing home. Then, she'd wash all evening and iron half the night. Then, get back and go to the Boozerliners. Yeah.	27:05
Stacey Scales	Was that big business? Was a lot of people doing that?	27:27
Lillie Mae Harris Fincher	I have no idea whether a lot of people were doing that. But I know my great-grandmother did that on my dad's side. I know my grandmother on my father's side did that. I know that my grandmother worked in a laundry. She would, on her lunch period, use that man's laundry to press shirts for a White businessman that lived in West End. I do—	27:30
Stacey Scales	So you said she would bring them home. How would she get all of that home?	27:57
Lillie Mae Harris Fincher	On the bus, honey, or either walk. These people walked. My grandmother on my father's side who worked for the Boozerliners—	28:01
Stacey Scales	Boozerliners. Could you spell that?	28:09
Lillie Mae Harris Fincher	I can't. No, I can't. But I'll show it to you in the telephone book.	28:10
Stacey Scales	Oh, they're still around?	28:15
Lillie Mae Harris Fincher	Yeah. Yeah. The Boozerliners still around. They call me now. Walter, one of the Boozerliners' children, would bring my grandmother home sometimes if she had a lot to bring home. Otherwise, she had to ride the bus, transfer in town, and then come home. Because two buses would come home. But my grandmother could carry that basket clothes on her head and walk 20, 30 blocks. She could. She really could. And my grandmother would've been alive today. But she got burned up in her house. Somebody set her house on fire.	28:15
Stacey Scales	Somebody said her house fire? Really?	28:59
Lillie Mae Harris Fincher	Accidentally, I think, with a cigarette. That's what the fire department said, that this man, as she was— They used to have prayer sessions. And this was just about four years ago. She would've been 94 now.	28:59
Stacey Scales	How did people get the news?	29:15
Lillie Mae Harris Fincher	Radio. Radio.	29:18
Stacey Scales	Really?	29:21
Lillie Mae Harris Fincher	Yes, radio. Let's take World War II. My one uncle, I only have one uncle from all the other, my one uncle was in the service. I remember the day he left. Blacks had to catch the train down at the end while the White folk catching the train on— but that was good because if anything happened to the train, they would've been the first to die. But that's okay.	29:21
Lillie Mae Harris Fincher	During the war, when my uncle went overseas, we always had to stay up until 10:00 to listen to the news, the war news. And this radio. My grandmother would turn it on and would sit there and listen to the news. But we also listened to other things on that radio as a family. The war news was most devastating to her. She always had this map. My uncle was in France in the war. And we always had this world map.	29:50
Lillie Mae Harris Fincher	And every day my grandmother would come and look at the map and she'd say, "TC is right here." When he had to go to Germany, she said, "Well, he's gone right over here." I don't know whether that played in a bearing on my going into history or what have you. But we always had that. We kept that map up until he came home, so we could locate him. But we listened to the news. We also listened to Joe Louis and his fights on the radio. The men would be betting and it would be dark outside. To a kid, night is dark, right?	30:27
Stacey Scales	Right.	31:11
Lillie Mae Harris Fincher	And everybody's radio would be on, if you had one. Listen, poor— we were probably dirt poor, probably. But we had a radio. And we'd open the doors and the windows, pull the radio as far to the porch as we can. Because there were several people on my block who didn't have a radio. And especially when Joe Louis was fighting.	31:13
Stacey Scales	What's the name of your block?	31:38
Lillie Mae Harris Fincher	I lived on 4th Avenue Southwest. It's still 4th Avenue Southwest.	31:39
Stacey Scales	And everyone would listen to the—	31:48
Lillie Mae Harris Fincher	They would be listening to the radio. You'd hear a radio, say, at my house. Then, you'd hear a radio, maybe four houses up the hill, three or four houses down the hill. But they would all be listening to Joe Louis fight. And I remember that night, just as vague. It was dark. They were listening to it.	31:49
Lillie Mae Harris Fincher	And every time when he knocked down the man, Schmeling I believe it was. I'm not sure. I think that's what it was. Everybody on the block started screaming. Because here we have a Negro who just became boxing champion of the world. And I think that was one of the proudest moments on my block. I remember that real real well, okay. All right. We got 10 more minutes. I got to let you—	32:10
Stacey Scales	We got 10 minutes. Well we have a biographical form to fill out. And—	32:52
Lillie Mae Harris Fincher	Go ahead and fill it out.	32:59
Stacey Scales	And a release sheet. I'll ask you some questions about your family.	33:01
Lillie Mae Harris Fincher	Oh, I got two children.	33:05
Stacey Scales	Let's see. Okay. First name, last name, and middle name.	33:11
Lillie Mae Harris Fincher	My first name is Lillie, L-I-L-L-I-E. My middle name is Mae, M-A-E. My married last name is Fincher, F-I-N-C-H-E-R.	33:22
Stacey Scales	And your maiden name?	33:37
Lillie Mae Harris Fincher	Is Harris.	33:39
Stacey Scales	And your current address?	33:44
Lillie Mae Harris Fincher	861 Goldwire, G-O-L-D-W-I-R-E, Street Southwest. That's in Birmingham. You might like to know we still own that house that I grew up in, that kind of stuff.	33:45
Stacey Scales	Right. Okay.	34:04
Lillie Mae Harris Fincher	35211. Area code 205-323-2957. Area code 205-583-4678.	34:08
Stacey Scales	Do you have any names other than Lillie Mae Fincher that go by? Nickname or anything?	34:27
Lillie Mae Harris Fincher	Only in the Catholic church, and we don't need those.	34:34
Stacey Scales	Okay. Your date of birth?	34:36
Lillie Mae Harris Fincher	8/13/1933.	34:41
Stacey Scales	And your place of birth?	34:46
Lillie Mae Harris Fincher	Birmingham, Alabama.	34:48
Stacey Scales	Current marital status?	34:56
Lillie Mae Harris Fincher	Divorced.	34:58
Stacey Scales	Divorced.	34:58
Lillie Mae Harris Fincher	I mean, if you weren't born in Birmingham and went through the trials and tribulations that we went through, you'll never get to heaven.	35:02
Stacey Scales	All right. Your mother's name? First, middle, and last.	35:09
Lillie Mae Harris Fincher	Gertrude, G-E-R-T-R-U-D-E. No Middle, Sanders. S-A-N-D-E-R-S.	35:12
Stacey Scales	And her maiden name?	35:26
Lillie Mae Harris Fincher	Crum, C-R-U-M.	35:28
Stacey Scales	Do you know the day she passed?	35:28
Lillie Mae Harris Fincher	My mother is alive and well and doing wonderful. And going to meet her in the next 20 minutes.	35:33
Stacey Scales	I'm sorry. Her place of birth is Birmingham too?	35:41
Lillie Mae Harris Fincher	No, she was born in Talladega County. T-A-L-L-A-D-E-G-A.	35:44
Stacey Scales	Talladega County. Do you know what town?	35:48
Lillie Mae Harris Fincher	Lincoln, L-I-N-C-O-L-N. Yeah, right.	36:01
Stacey Scales	Her occupation?	36:04
Lillie Mae Harris Fincher	She's a professor of psychology, retired.	36:05
Stacey Scales	Your father's name?	36:16
Lillie Mae Harris Fincher	Samuel.	36:16
Stacey Scales	Samuel?	36:16
Lillie Mae Harris Fincher	Harris.	36:16
Stacey Scales	Harris. Did he have a middle name?	36:22
Lillie Mae Harris Fincher	No.	36:25
Stacey Scales	Okay. His date of birth?	36:25
Lillie Mae Harris Fincher	I don't know his date of birth, but he is dead. Very much dead. He died in 1962. I want to say he was 55 years old. And so must have been 1917.	36:29
Stacey Scales	Do you remember your mother's date of birth?	36:43
Lillie Mae Harris Fincher	Of course. July 2nd, 1916 I think.	36:50
Stacey Scales	Your father's place at birth?	37:07
Lillie Mae Harris Fincher	I don't know.	37:12
Stacey Scales	Okay. And his occupation? You mentioned he did odd jobs.	37:12
Lillie Mae Harris Fincher	That was my grandfather and my great-grandfather. I didn't mention my father at all. I don't know what he did. He was an iceman when I was born. The iceman rings twice.	37:19
Stacey Scales	All right. Sisters and brothers? Their birth and their place of birth.	37:36
Lillie Mae Harris Fincher	Thank God for small favors. I don't have any.	37:43
Stacey Scales	None? Children?	37:53
Lillie Mae Harris Fincher	My children?	37:53
Stacey Scales	Yeah.	37:53
Lillie Mae Harris Fincher	I have two wonderful children. I need to write that myself because it'll take you to spell that full name. Her name is Cherrye Poinsettia. Her married name?	37:54
Stacey Scales	That's fine. You can add that.	38:18
Lillie Mae Harris Fincher	Parker. She was born 12/26/59, Birmingham.	38:19
Stacey Scales	Christmas present.	38:34
Lillie Mae Harris Fincher	Oh yeah. Cassandra Pamela. And her married name is, what? And she was born July 26, '67. Number of grandchildren? Yes. How many? One. Her name is Jasmine A Fells.	38:35
Stacey Scales	Yeah. All right. The places that you've lived?	39:17
Lillie Mae Harris Fincher	Places I have lived?	39:23
Stacey Scales	Yes.	39:23
Lillie Mae Harris Fincher	Birmingham, Alabama. That should be obvious. Charleston, West Virginia. I lived there for a while. I also went to school there.	39:28
Stacey Scales	About how long did you live there? Or what dates?	39:44
Lillie Mae Harris Fincher	What do you mean, "What dates?" I still live in Birmingham.	39:51
Stacey Scales	No, Charleston, West Virginia.	39:53
Lillie Mae Harris Fincher	'51 to '53. It's not only did I go to school there, but I was living there. I lived in New York City.	39:57
Stacey Scales	How long?	40:05
Lillie Mae Harris Fincher	'53 to '54. And I had to go back. I lived in Annapolis, Maryland. I didn't realize when I was in Annapolis what a historic place it was. But I do know that Blacks could not go to the Naval Academy. We could not do anything but ride through there.	40:06
Stacey Scales	How long?	40:38
Lillie Mae Harris Fincher	I stayed that from '53 to '56.	40:39
Stacey Scales	1953 to 1956.	40:45
Lillie Mae Harris Fincher	Right.	40:45
Stacey Scales	Okay. How long did you stay in New York City?	40:45
Lillie Mae Harris Fincher	A year.	40:52
Stacey Scales	So here we have New York City, 1953 to '54. But Annapolis—	40:53
Lillie Mae Harris Fincher	1950— No, you got New York— Where's '4? New York City to '50—	41:01
Stacey Scales	'4.	41:06
Lillie Mae Harris Fincher	I didn't say '54. '54. Okay, '54.	41:08
Stacey Scales	To '56?	41:13
Lillie Mae Harris Fincher	Yeah. '54, '55, '55, '56. That's right.	41:14
Stacey Scales	And the places that you went to school, you have your degree completed?	41:23
Lillie Mae Harris Fincher	Let me write that. I went to Immaculata High in Birmingham 1950. I went to Talladega. That's in Talladega. You can write this over.	41:29
Stacey Scales	Okay.	41:57
Lillie Mae Harris Fincher	Oh, God, one, nine, seven— Okay. What else you want to know?	41:57
Stacey Scales	Your current and most important previous jobs?	43:04
Lillie Mae Harris Fincher	My current job is program specialist. Every job that I have had is important. My great-grandmama said, "All work is good work as long as it's honest work."	43:09
Stacey Scales	And program specialist?	43:20
Lillie Mae Harris Fincher	Birmingham Public Schools.	43:24
Stacey Scales	Any others that you'd like to mention?	43:33
Lillie Mae Harris Fincher	Mm-mm. I have been a teacher all my life. I haven't done any other work. Yes, I did. One summer I was a camp counselor.	43:36
Stacey Scales	Okay, where?	43:50
Lillie Mae Harris Fincher	That was in Alabama. I sure did. And I was a Head Start person. I have no idea the year, but I did those two things. That's all I've ever done. I was a really lazy person.	43:50
Stacey Scales	Have you ever—	44:09
Lillie Mae Harris Fincher	It's how come I'm poor. Huh?	44:10
Stacey Scales	Have you ever received any awards or honors? Any honors?	44:13
Lillie Mae Harris Fincher	I'm not going to go through that. Just put down some.	44:17
Stacey Scales	Some. Current religious denomination? Catholic?	44:21
Lillie Mae Harris Fincher	Catholic. That assures me a place in Heaven.	44:29
Stacey Scales	Current church affiliation?	44:31
Lillie Mae Harris Fincher	Our Lady of Fatima, F-A-T-I-M-A.	44:33
Stacey Scales	Any other churches you would like to mention that you previously belonged to? Previous members—	44:38
Lillie Mae Harris Fincher	I never belonged to another one. That's the only one I ever belonged to. It changed its name.	44:47
Stacey Scales	Oh, really? From what?	44:53
Lillie Mae Harris Fincher	Immaculate Conception. It used to be called Immaculate Conception, but it's the same church.	44:55
Stacey Scales	Okay. Any organizations that you belong to?	45:10
Lillie Mae Harris Fincher	I mean, you want my resume?	45:12
Stacey Scales	You belonged to—	45:19
Lillie Mae Harris Fincher	I belonged to a lot of organizations.	45:20
Stacey Scales	You could just give me a few.	45:22
Lillie Mae Harris Fincher	Okay. I belong to Phi Delta Kappa. I like to give that one because I belong also to the National Sorority of Phi Delta Kappa. That's two different organizations. I like that. People say "What?" I say, "Yeah." Okay, I belong to Top Ladies of Distinction. What else do I belong to? I belong to the BEA. Just put BEA-AEA NEA. I'm a life member of the NEA. I belong to NAACP. I belong to Delta Sigma Theta.	45:28
Stacey Scales	I can tell. That's fine if you want to put that. Any other activities?	46:33
Lillie Mae Harris Fincher	I belong to the National Council of Social Studies. That's where I work. C-O-U-N-C-I-L for Social Studies. I mean, if I don't belong to that. I belong to—	46:47

Item Info

Title:

Lillie Fincher interview recording, 1994 June 16

Date:

June 16, 1994

Creator:

Fincher, Lillie Mae

Contributor:

Scales, Mausiki Stacey

Description:

Name: Lillie Mae Fincher; Date of birth: 1933-08-13; Place of birth: Birmingham, AL; Occupation(s): educator; teacher; counselor; Residence: Birmingham, AL
Informant ID: 728; Interviewed by: Stacey Scales.

Occupation:

Location:

Format:

Language:

English

Digital Collection:

Behind the Veil

Source Collection:

Behind the Veil: Documenting African American Life in the Jim Crow South interviews, photographs, and project records, circa 1864-2011, bulk 1990-2004

Series:

Related Resources:

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Provenance:

The David M. Rubenstein Rare Book and Manuscript Library acquired the Records of the Behind the Veil Oral History Project from the Duke University Center for Documentary Studies in 1997, 1998, 2000, and 2002.

Rights:

Limited Re-Use

CC BY-NC 4.0

Rights Note:

Copyright for content created by the Behind the Veil project is held by Duke University and made available to the public using a Creative Commons Attribution / Non-commercial (CC-BY-NC) license.

Identifier:

RL00170-CS-0287
4e192f22-d6a0-4914-ab8d-a5296b6456b9
behindtheveil
2944b88a-2ad9-4dba-bf80-c9d93b0c9a41
ark:/87924/r4pn98q2x
2944b88a-2ad9-4dba-bf80-c9d93b0c9a41

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Lillie Fincher interview recording, 1994 June 16

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1. Lillie Fincher administrative file, 1994

John Hope Franklin Research Center

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Lillie Fincher interview recording, 1994 June 16

Transcript

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John Hope Franklin Research Center

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