Lena Bass interview recording, 1995 August 15

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Mary Hebert	Full name and where you was born, that's to do a sound check on the machine, make sure it's working okay.	0:03
Lena Baker Bass	Mm-hmm. Lena Byrd Baker Bass. I was born in Williamsburg, Virginia.	0:07
Mary Hebert	What were your parents' names?	0:22
Lena Baker Bass	William H. And Clara B. Baker.	0:27
Mary Hebert	What did they do for a living?	0:32
Lena Baker Bass	My mother was a teacher. My father was the tourist guide and caretaker at Bruton Parish Episcopal Church.	0:34
Mary Hebert	Did y'all live on the church grounds?	0:51
Lena Baker Bass	No.	0:52
Mary Hebert	What area of Williamsburg did you live in?	0:54
Lena Baker Bass	We lived right in the middle of the restored area. Our home was adjacent to the property on which the Colonial Williamsburg Hotel is built, on Francis Street.	0:57
Mary Hebert	Were you living there when they started the renovations?	1:12
Lena Baker Bass	We were one of the first families that was relocated. Mm-hmm. They started in 1926, I think. We moved in 1928. Dr. Goodwin was the rector of the church at that time, and my father worked at the church so I suppose that's why we were some of the first that were moved.	1:16
Mary Hebert	Did they pay you for your home?	1:44
Lena Baker Bass	Yes, they paid for the home.	1:45
Mary Hebert	Your parents bought another home?	1:47
Lena Baker Bass	Yes. Mm-hmm.	1:49
Mary Hebert	Still in Williamsburg?	1:49
Lena Baker Bass	Yes. You moved from Francis Street just about two blocks over to Nicholson Street.	1:51
Mary Hebert	How did your family feel about having to move?	1:57
Lena Baker Bass	Well, I guess we had been told what was going to happen. We were—Well, the first families in that area was relocated, but I suppose the fact that Papa worked up there and had talked to Dr. Goodwin and all might—And of course Papa came home and talked to Mama. So I guess that's, that sort of prepared us for it. It wasn't a bad move I don't think.	2:02
Mary Hebert	Were you a child when that happened?	2:27
Lena Baker Bass	Oh, yes. Let me see. I was born 1911. We moved in 1926. Yeah, 1926.	2:29
Mary Hebert	You were a teenager?	2:42
Lena Baker Bass	Yeah. Mm-hmm.	2:43
Mary Hebert	Where did you go to school?	2:46
Lena Baker Bass	I finished what was then James City County Training School in Williamsburg, that was elementary and high school.	2:48
Mary Hebert	Did your mother teach there?	3:00
Lena Baker Bass	Yes.	3:01
Mary Hebert	Did she ever teach you?	3:07
Lena Baker Bass	No. She didn't start—My mother went back teaching after my youngest brother was old enough to go to school.	3:08
Mary Hebert	So while you were growing up, she was basically in the home?	3:15
Lena Baker Bass	She was in the home until—Oh, let's see, I was about 10 years old, I guess, when she started teaching again.	3:19
Mary Hebert	And she taught grade school?	3:31
Lena Baker Bass	Yes. Mm-hmm.	3:33
Mary Hebert	Did your parents stress the importance of education for you?	3:36
Lena Baker Bass	Very much. Mm-hmm. In fact, the, there's a school that was built and named for my mother in just 1989.	3:39
Mary Hebert	In Williamsburg?	3:56
Lena Baker Bass	Mm-hmm.	3:57
Mary Hebert	So she was a very well respected, well-liked teacher?	4:00
Lena Baker Bass	Yes, mm-hmm, very well respected. Not only was she involved in the school's work, but she was a community worker. Mama was behind the scene person and most of the things, I don't say most of them, but a number of things that happened in Williamsburg.	4:04
Mary Hebert	What kind of organizations did she belong to? Can you recall some of them?	4:23
Lena Baker Bass	Well, I know she organized—Wait a minute, I had something—Thinking of something here will help me. Look—I'm sorry.	4:29
Mary Hebert	I'll just keep the recording—	4:33
Lena Baker Bass	Her scrapbook, National Council of Negro Women was one that she had and that's in red. What is this? Oh, no, that's ours.	4:41
Mary Hebert	Is that your mother?	4:45
Lena Baker Bass	That's my mother. Mm-hmm. That's when she left home, the city gave her retirement. She left to come to live with me. She lived last 12 years with us. Let's see, she was one of the first Negro women voters. They say she was the first, but she said she doesn't say she wasn't first, she was one of the first	5:12
Mary Hebert	In the 1950s? 1952 red, top of the page.	5:35
Lena Baker Bass	1930—Yeah, 1952. So she has here—Let me see. I'm trying to think of when that was. I know it tells it in here somewhere.	5:44
Mary Hebert	So your parents' photo, that was important to them then?	5:52
Lena Baker Bass	Yeah. Yes, it was very important to them. Yeah.	5:56
Mary Hebert	Did you recall her voting as being in the '30s?	6:04
Lena Baker Bass	When she was one of the first—As I said, they said she was the first, but she was one of the first, she says, to vote when women were allowed to vote.	6:10
Mary Hebert	So after the amendment was passed, she registered to vote?	6:27
Lena Baker Bass	Yes, mm-hmm, mm-hmm. Here's what hee here—This lists her affiliations, besides being extra active in First Baptist Church. She's director of the Foreign Groups. The Virginia Council on Human Relations. The Virginia State Alumni Association. League of Women Voters. She continued that activity when she was here. Williamsburg Area Recreation Association. League of Women Voters, I said that?	6:32
Mary Hebert	Mm-hmm.	7:17
Lena Baker Bass	Williamsburg Area Recreation Association. National Council of Negro Women. Heritage Girl Scout Council. I think that was an area thing. Political League. NAACP. And Virginia Teachers Association.	7:19
Mary Hebert	Did she encourage you to join the same kinds of organizations and still do civic—	7:53
Lena Baker Bass	No. What happened was that after I finished school, see, I wasn't back at home, one of those sort of things. But when she came here, she affiliated with the League of Women Voters and this alumni association, that sort of thing. But I never got caught up into it like she did.	7:58
Mary Hebert	Was politics something that was talked about in your home as you were growing up?	8:21
Lena Baker Bass	Uh-huh. Politics wasn't talked about, uh-huh.	8:25
Mary Hebert	But both of your parents did vote?	8:29
Lena Baker Bass	Yeah. Mm-hmm.	8:30
Mary Hebert	And did you register to vote when you turned 21?	8:33
Lena Baker Bass	Yes. Mm-hmm.	8:35
Mary Hebert	Did you have to pay a poll tax?	8:35
Lena Baker Bass	Yes, we did. What was it? Dollar and a half, I believe. Yeah. But we had to pay a poll tax.	8:40
Mary Hebert	Was there any kind of test attached to the poll tax?	8:49
Lena Baker Bass	No, not when I did it. I think it somewhere in here it says Mama started voting in 1920.	8:52
Mary Hebert	So right after the 19th Amendment was passed?	9:02
Lena Baker Bass	Yeah. Mm-hmm.	9:09
Mary Hebert	Did they grow up in the Williamsburg area, your parents?	9:10
Lena Baker Bass	Yes, both of them were born there. Mm-hmm.	9:12
Mary Hebert	Did you ever get to know your grandparents? Were they still alive?	9:17
Lena Baker Bass	I knew my father's mother, Eliza Baker. My father's mother was a slave.	9:18
Mary Hebert	Did she ever tell you any stories?	9:37
Lena Baker Bass	No, she never told us anything about that.	9:40
Mary Hebert	How did your education compare to your parents' educations?	9:46
Lena Baker Bass	Fortunately, both my mother and father were able to attend school. Papa, he was a carpenter by trade. He had a—What was Virginia? I guess it was Virginia—It wasn't Virginia Normal School, but it is now Virginia State University. My mother has her degree had her degree from Virginia State University.	9:52
Mary Hebert	And is that where you went to school, also?	10:25
Lena Baker Bass	All three of my brothers and I, all four of us went to Virginia State.	10:26
Mary Hebert	Was sending you to college a financial burden for your family?	10:33
Lena Baker Bass	I guess it was, but it was one of those things that, you know when you grow up, you don't know that you're poor?	10:36
Mary Hebert	Mm-hmm.	10:44
Lena Baker Bass	Well, it was just one of those sort of things, I think. Mama used to say that she got her check, deposited it in the bank, and sent our tuitions. She said there wasn't enough left for her to do anything with. But Papa carried on the things, took care of things at home and she—	10:45
Mary Hebert	Were you all in school at the same time?	11:09
Lena Baker Bass	Three of us were. Mm-hmm.	11:12
Mary Hebert	And there were four of you?	11:13
Lena Baker Bass	Mm-hmm.	11:14
Mary Hebert	That was Virginia State at Petersburg?	11:17
Lena Baker Bass	Virginia State. Well, my oldest brother finished Virginia State, he finished his high school at Virginia State, but he went at University of Pittsburgh for college.	11:18
Mary Hebert	Okay. And you stayed in Williamsburg for high school?	11:30
Lena Baker Bass	Yes. Mm-hmm.	11:36
Mary Hebert	What did you major in in college?	11:37
Lena Baker Bass	Elementary Ed.	11:39
Mary Hebert	How did you choose that?	11:44
Lena Baker Bass	Well, at that time, if we as Negroes were to do anything, you either got the school system as a teacher, an insurance office as a clerk, or a nurse. I mean, those were the avenues that were open to us at that time.	11:46
Mary Hebert	To women? To Black women?	12:07
Lena Baker Bass	To Black women, mm-hmm. So I chose teaching. And I guess Mama's being a teacher had a lot to do with that too.	12:08
Mary Hebert	Did you have any teachers while you were in school that influenced you and were special to you?	12:17
Lena Baker Bass	Yes, we did. There was a—Her name was Olive Scott, at that time she was Olive Hill. She was from Petersburg. Our first high school teachers—We were graduates, at least I was, graduate of the first graduating class from the high school, just [indistinct 00:12:45] high school at that time. And Ms. Hill, I think, had more influence on us in that class than anybody else.	12:23
Mary Hebert	Did you look up to teachers, were they role models for you?	12:52
Lena Baker Bass	Yes. Mm-hmm. We had, as I said, Ms. Hill in the elementary school that—This was really my first grade teacher. But I thought there was nothing that she said they could be wrong or anything. Her name was Mrs. Tate.	12:56
Mary Hebert	You mentioned that your class was the first class to graduate from the high school. What grade did they go up to prior to that?	13:20
Lena Baker Bass	Well, they went through the seventh grade and then they—I guess it must have been, let me see. We finished our graduating class in 1926. So it must have been '22 when they started that class.	13:27
Mary Hebert	To have a high school?	13:43
Lena Baker Bass	Huh?	13:43
Mary Hebert	To have a high school?	13:43
Lena Baker Bass	Yes, they increased it to high school. Until that time, we had no high school there.	13:44
Mary Hebert	So children like your brother would have to go away to—	13:51
Lena Baker Bass	They went away to high school. Mm-hmm.	13:55
Mary Hebert	Were many families able to do that, to send their children?	13:58
Lena Baker Bass	Some were, I can think of probably five or six. Not a whole lot, but some of them did.	14:01
Mary Hebert	Did the Black community lobby for a high school?	14:18
Lena Baker Bass	I don't know. I really don't know much about that. I'll tell you when we were in the grades, but we had a new principal to come in and Mr. Hayes immediately started trying to build a high school. Now, I don't know whether he was brought there for that or not, but when he came there, he immediately began to work on that. And I don't think he'd been there—I think he'd probably been there a year before we started this high school.	14:21
Mary Hebert	What was the elementary school like? Did it have classrooms?	14:55
Lena Baker Bass	Yeah.	14:59
Mary Hebert	It wasn't a bunch of different grades in one room?	14:59
Lena Baker Bass	No, no, no. Uh-huh? No. They had regular classrooms. Mm-hmm. I think each grade has it had its own classroom. I know my mother did. My mother taught first grade, so I do—She was at the end of the building.	15:03
Mary Hebert	How was it heated? Did it have—	15:21
Lena Baker Bass	It had central heating.	15:22
Mary Hebert	—central heating? Was it a brick building?	15:26
Lena Baker Bass	Yes. Mm-hmm.	15:27
Mary Hebert	Did you have a library?	15:31
Lena Baker Bass	Yes.	15:33
Mary Hebert	Did you have to walk to school?	15:39
Lena Baker Bass	Yeah, but see, I live about two blocks here. Yeah, we walked to school. They did get a bus or way late, but that brought students from the other end of the county.	15:42
Mary Hebert	Was it the only Black school in the county?	15:57
Lena Baker Bass	Only Black high school.	15:59
Mary Hebert	High school.	16:00
Lena Baker Bass	Yeah. Mm-hmm.	16:01
Mary Hebert	I've driven up to the Williamsburg area. I'm not sure what kinds of crops they grew in that area. Did the crops influence the school year time?	16:07
Lena Baker Bass	Uh-huh. No, no. They didn't have anything out there.	16:18
Mary Hebert	It wasn't a big agricultural area?	16:20
Lena Baker Bass	No. Uh-huh, not a big agricultural area.	16:20
Mary Hebert	And you went to Virginia State at Petersburg when you went college?	16:29
Lena Baker Bass	Mm-hmm.	16:33
Mary Hebert	Were you active in high school clubs and our organizations?	16:34
Lena Baker Bass	As much as we had, we didn't have very much in that I didn't play basketball, they played basketball. But like this chorus, school chorus, I was active in that. And you didn't have very much, other than that.	16:37
Mary Hebert	Did y'all have school dances?	16:58
Lena Baker Bass	No, uh-huh.	17:00
Mary Hebert	What did teenagers do for fun on the weekends?	17:02
Lena Baker Bass	I guess what we did, we had parties now and then from one house to the other. But no, now they got to have halls and all. At that time, we just went from one house to another and your mother said that everybody's going to be out of here by such and such time (laughs) so that was what happened.	17:05
Mary Hebert	Was your mother's strict?	17:28
Lena Baker Bass	Yes and no. What she said she meant, she didn't take it back. Whatever she said we were going to do what we were going do. But she was not strick in this respect: she was the type of person, the girls, your parents didn't allow you to be going out to different things late without a chaperone, but mama was always a choice of the folks to take us places.	17:31
Mary Hebert	I've heard a lot about the community being important in child rearing during this time where if a child misbehaved somewhere else in the community, another parent—	18:06
Lena Baker Bass	Mm-hmm.	18:15
Mary Hebert	That's what it was like?	18:16
Lena Baker Bass	Yes, ma'am. If I misbehave, I knew the other person could have punished me, but I knew I was going to be punished again, and she told mama.	18:18
Mary Hebert	So the parents found out eventually?	18:31
Lena Baker Bass	Right. Mm-hmm.	18:33
Mary Hebert	Were you active in clubs and organizations at Virginia State?	18:34
Lena Baker Bass	Not too much, uh-huh. A little bit shy. I was young to have been in college. I was in college at 14.	18:43
Mary Hebert	At 14?	18:51
Lena Baker Bass	Mm-hmm. And that had to do with their trying to get this high school in Williamsburg—And let see, I went to college, I say 14, was it 15? I was 14. I was 15 in July and I went there. Yes. Yeah, I was 15 years. I was 15 when I left. But they took the students, they took three of us who were at the top of the school and doubled your grade that you—For instance, I went in the fifth grade and I came out the seventh, that sort of thing.	18:53
Mary Hebert	[indistinct 00:19:41].	19:39
Lena Baker Bass	You miss a lot like that.	19:40
Mary Hebert	—15.	19:42
Lena Baker Bass	Yeah. Yeah, I was 15 that summer.	19:44
Mary Hebert	Where did you live when you went to Petersburg?	19:45
Lena Baker Bass	On the campus.	19:49
Mary Hebert	In a dorm?	19:49
Lena Baker Bass	Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.	19:49
Mary Hebert	Were you one of the youngest people on campus?	19:49
Lena Baker Bass	I'm sure I was, mm-hmm. I had a brother there who looked out for me—	19:54
Mary Hebert	Looked after you?	20:03
Lena Baker Bass	—who made sure I was where I was supposed to be.	20:07
Mary Hebert	You mentioned your mother was involved in scouting. Were you a Girl Scout?	20:10
Lena Baker Bass	No, I wasn't. When I was at home, we did not have the troop there then.	20:14
Mary Hebert	So that came along later?	20:22
Lena Baker Bass	Yeah, mm-hmm. See, I left home in 1926, that's a long time.	20:23
Mary Hebert	And did you start teaching when you graduated from college?	20:32
Lena Baker Bass	Yes, I did.	20:34
Mary Hebert	So you were 18?	20:34
Lena Baker Bass	I was 19.	20:35
Mary Hebert	19?	20:35
Lena Baker Bass	Mm-hmm.	20:35
Mary Hebert	Where was your first job?	20:40
Lena Baker Bass	York County Training School, I taught first grade. And in addition had to—At that time, you taught everything, I had to teach all the music in the school and I couldn't play, you couldn't play a page or anything there hardly. But I had all the girls' chorus, everything that was done at the school and used to do a lot of—We had to raise so much money as you always have to put on programs all year round.	20:42
Mary Hebert	So you would direct the programs?	21:22
Lena Baker Bass	I didn't direct the programs, but I had charge the music.	21:24
Mary Hebert	Oh, so you were in charge of the music?	21:27
Lena Baker Bass	Oh, I had no musical training. When you get out of school, you had to do all that. I mean, we had to do them then, they don't do that now.	21:31
Mary Hebert	So you'd never had taken piano lessons?	21:38
Lena Baker Bass	Well, I had taken piano lessons, mm-hmm. But I just could take for myself, one of those sort of things.	21:40
Mary Hebert	But you weren't trained in college and how to teach music?	21:47
Lena Baker Bass	No, uh-huh.	21:49
Mary Hebert	Was that a school with classrooms like the one you had attended?	21:52
Lena Baker Bass	Oh, yes. Yeah, it was—	21:54
Mary Hebert	One of the few schools in the county?	21:58
Lena Baker Bass	It was the only Black high school. I mean, I had had grade school and a high school too, it's just like a school I went to.	22:00
Mary Hebert	So it was the only Black high school in York County?	22:07
Lena Baker Bass	Yeah, mm-hmm. Yorktown, I don't know what it—It's not on the site now. I don't know where—I mean, the school is not on the site that was in, I don't even know where it is.	22:13
Mary Hebert	It's Yorktown?	22:29
Lena Baker Bass	Yeah, it was in Yorktown.	22:31
Mary Hebert	Okay.	22:31
Lena Baker Bass	Mm-hmm.	22:31
Mary Hebert	I wrote county. Did you have your own apartment or did you board?	22:35
Lena Baker Bass	No, I boarded. Mm-hmm.	22:37
Mary Hebert	Was it a teacher? Did you board with another teacher?	22:44
Lena Baker Bass	No, uh-huh. No. Well, another teacher and I boarded at the same house. But there was doctor in the county who was a lifelong resident and we worked with him and his wife, Dr. And Mrs. McNamara.	22:46
Mary Hebert	So they had a large house?	23:12
Lena Baker Bass	Yes, they did.	23:14
Mary Hebert	And when did you come to the Norfolk area?	23:19
Lena Baker Bass	In 1939, I married and came here, married in Norfolk. Yes.	23:22
Mary Hebert	How did the Depression affect the area that you were living in?	23:33
Lena Baker Bass	In Williamsburg?	23:36
Mary Hebert	Williamsburg?	23:36
Lena Baker Bass	I never saw or heard of food lines. I never saw that then. I understand there was, but I never saw it. I think the area probably where it was, was an area that I didn't know much about. But I'm sure it affected all of us.	23:41
Lena Baker Bass	It happened that Mama had a regular check coming in, Papa had a regular check coming in. In addition, my father, as I said, he was a tourist guide and he got tips on his job, which, really, I think mattered more than his salary. But we knew it was that there and I think his tips were low at that time. But we never really suffered, as I knew of. As I said, my mom and father were very good at keeping—I mean, letting us think that we had, not a lot, but I mean they saw that we had what we needed.	24:05
Mary Hebert	Did they dress you up and were you always in starched clothes and—	24:50
Lena Baker Bass	No, not always. My mother sew. So when I went to school, I didn't have a dress that mama didn't make.	24:54
Mary Hebert	So your mother sewed all of your clothes for you?	25:06
Lena Baker Bass	Yes. She made all of my clothes. Even when I went to school, she made my coat. She made all my clothes.	25:07
Mary Hebert	Did she teach you how to sew?	25:15
Lena Baker Bass	I used to be able to sew a little. Yeah, she taught me how to sew.	25:17
Mary Hebert	Did she do all the cooking for the family?	25:21
Lena Baker Bass	Mm-hmm. She did all the cooking. I didn't tell you that, she sewed while she was home with us, that's what she did. She took in sewing. When she first started teaching, she would be sewing and teaching, one of those things.	25:25
Mary Hebert	So she'd do sewing for women in the community?	25:48
Lena Baker Bass	Yeah. Mm-hmm.	25:48
Mary Hebert	Was it mostly White women that she'd sew for? Was it—	25:49
Lena Baker Bass	Both.	25:52
Mary Hebert	Both?	25:52
Lena Baker Bass	Mm-hmm.	25:52
Mary Hebert	Now your father was a tour guide for the church?	25:55
Lena Baker Bass	Yes.	25:58
Mary Hebert	Were most of the tourists White tourists that were coming and would tip him?	26:04
Lena Baker Bass	Yes, most of them were. Mm-hmm. They still had asked him up there.	26:07
Mary Hebert	Were you required to do certain chores when you were—	26:11
Lena Baker Bass	At home?	26:19
Mary Hebert	Yes.	26:20
Lena Baker Bass	Being the only girl, yes. My mother used to go to summer school, for instance, and I was always in—I had to do cooking, washing, ironing, which we did have a lady come in and help us.	26:21
Mary Hebert	So she'd come in? Would she come in every day?	26:39
Lena Baker Bass	No, uh-huh. She come in about twice a week. She would see that the cleaning was done and did a lot of the washing and ironing. Mm-hmm.	26:41
Mary Hebert	Did you ever have a job while you were in school?	26:51
Lena Baker Bass	No, I didn't. Uh-huh.	26:54
Mary Hebert	Once you started working as a teacher, would you send part of your salary home to your parents?	26:58
Lena Baker Bass	I didn't send part, no. I didn't send part to a salary home. I used to buy her things. For instance, I remember, I guess I'd been teaching about five years then, I bought Mama said china. I mean, I would do things like that, but I didn't send a—	27:02
Mary Hebert	How you meet your husband?	27:23
Lena Baker Bass	He came to Williamsburg to work at one of the restoration buildings. My younger brother was in school with him and Bernard brought him home to meet us, and I met him too there.	27:27
Mary Hebert	So he wasn't working as a photographer then?	27:50
Lena Baker Bass	Not at that point, uh-huh.	27:52
Mary Hebert	Was it some kind of WPA work or CCC work?	27:55
Lena Baker Bass	No.Colonial Williamsburg has its own setup and he worked at one of the food taverns. He had been working down here at Virginia Beach, and when the season ended, he came up there.	27:59
Mary Hebert	So at that point they had the taverns and the same kind of thing that they have now?	28:16
Lena Baker Bass	Yeah. Mm-hmm. I think the tavern he worked for is still there, Travis House.	28:24
Mary Hebert	When you were dating, was your mother—Did she still require a chaperone to go along with you when you were—	28:25
Lena Baker Bass	Not a chaperone, but I brought my brother. My brother was going along with us.	28:40
Mary Hebert	Did you go to movies and things like that?	28:48
Lena Baker Bass	We didn't have movies in Williamsburg. Tried it two or three times and didn't work out so we didn't do that. We used to go to Newport News and Hampton Institute and things. Mama used to take us to Hampton Institute to a lot of the stuff going on down there, plays and games, all of that.	28:50
Mary Hebert	So your family had a car, right?	29:10
Lena Baker Bass	Yeah, we had a car. Then we got our first car in 1924.	29:13
Mary Hebert	Were you one of the first families to get a car?	29:21
Lena Baker Bass	I think we were the second.	29:24
Mary Hebert	Was your family considering one of the leading families among the Black community in Williamsburg?	29:29
Lena Baker Bass	I would imagine that not as far as wealth or anything was concerned, we were very average. But I suppose what was contributed to the community from that, from our family, probably was. And my mother, she was very outgoing, all of that. Papa was very happy to stay home, doing those sort of things, he was like that.	29:37
Mary Hebert	So your mother was the one who was out and in clubs—?	30:06
Lena Baker Bass	Yeah, into things like that.	30:06
Mary Hebert	Who made the decisions in your home, say, about money and discipline and those kinds of things?	30:11
Lena Baker Bass	Mama. Papa worked. We were laughing, when he brought his tips in, he used to—Mama had a chaise lounge in her bedroom. Under that mattress on the chaise lounge was where Papa used to put his tips. Papa never knew, it never occurred to him I don't think, to count to see what was under there. And all of us knew it was there. We could take a dollar or so, Papa would never know or anything. We used to tell him, tell him we got such and such a thing or we got such thing.	30:17
Mary Hebert	Would you tell your mother how much you were taking?	30:53
Lena Baker Bass	Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. That's our thing. Nothing was ever put out of our reach, nothing was ever hid from us. We were always aware of everything that was around and knew what to expect if they weren't there when they came back, that sort of thing.	30:54
Mary Hebert	Do you think they tried to shield you from the system of segregation and the legal aspects of it?	31:14
Lena Baker Bass	I don't think they tried to shield us, no, I don't think so. In fact, I think we were very well aware of what was going on.	31:27
Mary Hebert	Did Williamsburg have the traditional things that went along with the Jim Crow laws, like the White only signs?	31:32
Lena Baker Bass	Yeah, mm-hmm. They had it.	31:38
Mary Hebert	Were you allowed to try on clothes and clothing stores in Williamsburg?	31:40
Lena Baker Bass	Yeah, as far as I know we were.	31:45
Mary Hebert	But your mother made most of your clothes?	31:45
Lena Baker Bass	Yeah, she made—But I think as I think about it, when I married, the buyer in Casey's, I was our only department store—When I married, I remember Miss Borkham was in charge of buying for the remnants department. Mama told her she needed to get this wedding dress. She went to New York when she went for her buying, she brought back four dresses and I was allowed to try them all on, right there in the store.	31:48
Mary Hebert	Did you have a big wedding?	32:38
Lena Baker Bass	Oh, yeah, I had a wedding. There is it.	32:39
Mary Hebert	Oh.	32:50
Lena Baker Bass	Hairdresser.	32:50
Mary Hebert	Did you get married—	32:50
Lena Baker Bass	That's in the yard, in our yard.	32:51
Mary Hebert	You got married in your yard?	32:53
Lena Baker Bass	Mm-hmm.	32:54
Mary Hebert	Oh. Beautiful dress.	32:54
Lena Baker Bass	The dress I liked was too much to it and I didn't.	33:02
Mary Hebert	Yeah, this one's a straight dress.	33:08
Lena Baker Bass	Yeah. This was just a train to it. Mm-hmm.	33:13
Lena Baker Bass	Yeah, that was taken in 1939 and this one was taken in 1989. Let's see.	33:14
Mary Hebert	So y'all had a 50 year anniversary?	33:18
Lena Baker Bass	50th anniversary. Mm-hmm. Now that's my family. This was at the family [indistinct 00:33:46]. And a friend of ours gave us this book as our anniversary gift. He took all the pictures. There we are. That's in the chair that's upstairs now.	33:27
Mary Hebert	Did you move to Norfolk immediately after you married?	33:59
Lena Baker Bass	Yes, mm-hmm.	34:04
Mary Hebert	What neighborhood did you move to?	34:05
Lena Baker Bass	Lindenwood. 2608 Middle Street.	34:06
Mary Hebert	Did y'all rent at first?	34:09
Lena Baker Bass	Yes.	34:10
Mary Hebert	And you taught here in Norfolk?	34:13
Lena Baker Bass	I didn't teach for long time. When I came here, married teachers were not being employed. And I went to work at that time, at first I went to the guide, but I didn't stay at the guide. My husband was working there and it didn't work out with both of our being there. And the little thing that ruffled me, I'd go to him and that was bad. So I quit and went to the HC Young Press, the job printing part of the Journal and Guide was sold and I went with the first person who bought it, Mr. HC Young, I went with them and I started off as a receptionist and work to be the receptionist, the proofreader, and then to become the secretary of corporation.	34:15
Mary Hebert	So your husband started working for the Journal and Guide immediately?	35:17
Lena Baker Bass	He started working with Journal and Guide in '36.	35:22
Mary Hebert	Oh, okay.	35:22
Lena Baker Bass	Mm-hmm.	35:23
Mary Hebert	As a photographer?	35:27
Lena Baker Bass	He started as a photographer, yes. Then they sent him to Springfield, Missouri. I think it was [indistinct 00:35:37], where he took photo engraving. They started the photo engraving plant here, he had to do that and some of the photography, they had another photographer, too. But I think photo engraving to do it, one, at that particular, one plant, proved to be too expensive. So Salazar was put back into photography altogether, they just discontinued that and he—	35:28
Mary Hebert	Did he do any reporting along with the photography?	36:10
Lena Baker Bass	At one time, at the beginning he did, but he didn't do that very long. He used to do a column called Inquiring Reporter, in which he took pictures, I would think six persons for an addition, and he did that.	36:17
Mary Hebert	Would he travel around to do—	36:45
Lena Baker Bass	Yes. He didn't travel long distances. He traveled. They'd go down to North Carolina, distances that, I mean, just a day. He wouldn't be gone very long. Once or twice he'd probably gone, but not too much.	36:47
Mary Hebert	So he wasn't one of the photographers for the Guide who'd go into the Deep South taking photos?	37:03
Lena Baker Bass	No. Uh-huh. Uh-huh.	37:06
Mary Hebert	I interviewed another photographer with the Guide—Oh, I can't remember his name. I'll remember. He's in Darrow. Alex Rivera.	37:09
Lena Baker Bass	Oh, is Alex still there?	37:20
Mary Hebert	Yeah.	37:22
Lena Baker Bass	1712 Federal Street.	37:24
Mary Hebert	Is that where he lived?	37:26
Lena Baker Bass	He was a good friend of Salazar's. But when Salazar passed, he called, he wanted to come up. That's been four years ago. His wife said that she wanted to bring—First, she said he would come, she said, but she was afraid he couldn't stand the trip. So I don't know. I hadn't been in touch with him. I had said I was going to call down there, but I hadn't called. But I'm glad you told me.	37:32
Mary Hebert	Well, I talk to him, interviewed him in June.	37:54
Lena Baker Bass	Oh, I'm going to call him. I certainly will. Because I've been thinking about he and Alex's first wife in South Holland, I used to be very friendly with, and she died. I don't know this wife as well. I had met her, but I don't know. This one's Fay. I don't know her as well.	37:57
Mary Hebert	Well, you mentioned you socialized with the Riveras.	38:19
Lena Baker Bass	Mm-hmm.	38:24
Mary Hebert	Did y'all go to some of the ballrooms on Church Street?	38:26
Lena Baker Bass	Yeah. Mm-hmm.	38:29
Mary Hebert	What was the ballroom called?	38:30
Lena Baker Bass	Palais Royal. I'm trying to think, was Alex here during much of Palais Royal?	38:36
Mary Hebert	He was here during World War II maybe, and after that. But he did move back to Durham at some point.	38:42
Lena Baker Bass	Yeah, he moved back, but he wasn't here—I know when they came here, I mean, we were here before they were. I'm trying to think. I hadn't been here too long before they came because they were living around the street from us.	38:49
Mary Hebert	What kind of neighborhood did you live in when you first moved here? Was it a middle class neighborhood?	39:08
Lena Baker Bass	Yeah, mm-hmm.	39:12
Mary Hebert	And you mentioned that married women weren't allowed to teach?	39:16
Lena Baker Bass	Uh-huh. They weren't hired. If they're already in the system, they were teaching, but they had been in there for years. I don't know why that crazy law was in effect. But it wasn't just here, it used to be different places.	39:20
Mary Hebert	So if you got married while you were teaching, you could keep your job?	39:33
Lena Baker Bass	No, no, you couldn't, you lost your job.	39:36
Mary Hebert	You lost your job?	39:46
Lena Baker Bass	Mm-hmm. But if you were already in the system—before they made the system—which, if you were married, you lost your job. And the funniest thing, you were getting announcements when they lift there, every time mail was delivered, here was another announcement somebody had gotten married.	39:47
Mary Hebert	That must have been hard for a lot of these women. Do you think some of them hid their marriages?	40:01
Lena Baker Bass	I know they did. I have two, three friends that did. (laughs)	40:05
Mary Hebert	You do much shopping along Church Street? Was that somewhere that you went?	40:12
Lena Baker Bass	Not too much on Church Street used to buy from—What was it, Snyder's, and Also's. They were there on shopping. I bought some things there. Particularly when I had my son, they had a good children's department at Snyder's and I used to buy everything for him there.	40:18
Mary Hebert	Your husband, was he drafted for World War II?	40:43
Lena Baker Bass	No, he wasn't. I think his worker newspaper saved him that. Mm-hmm.	40:47
Mary Hebert	How did World War II impact the Norfolk area?	40:54
Lena Baker Bass	Norfolk was run over really with World War II, with all the military personnel that was here. They profited, I'm sure, from it. And feeling effects of down there, everything that they're doing now, they're really feeling it here.	41:00
Mary Hebert	Were there airway drills and things like that?	41:31
Lena Baker Bass	Yes, there were. I don't remember too much about them. But I was looking in the paper yesterday, they had a whole section about the 50th anniversary of the ending of the war. They showed in their pictures of an air raid, people on Church Street going into the—I don't mean Church Street—Grander Street, going into the stores.	41:33
Mary Hebert	I need to flip this over—	42:04

Lena Baker Bass	Barely.	0:02
Mary Hebert	Do you remember the rationing that went on?	0:04
Lena Baker Bass	Oh yeah. We sold our car because we couldn't get any tires, I think, so I would remember that.	0:05
Mary Hebert	Did you ever have trouble getting food?	0:19
Lena Baker Bass	No, I haven't had trouble getting food.	0:19
Mary Hebert	You were given ration stamps, or cards?	0:24
Lena Baker Bass	Not for food, no.	0:26
Mary Hebert	For gasoline?	0:28
Lena Baker Bass	Yes, gasoline and for four things. Whiskey.	0:29
Mary Hebert	Whiskey?	0:33
Lena Baker Bass	Whiskey was rationed. Neither of us drank, but we used the coupons because our friends would come here.	0:36
Mary Hebert	You used it for entertainment?	0:48
Lena Baker Bass	Used it for entertainment.	0:48
Mary Hebert	Was your house one where you had a lot of people coming in?	0:50
Lena Baker Bass	A lot of young folks.	0:54
Mary Hebert	People who worked for the journal and guide?	0:56
Lena Baker Bass	Lots of them. Then there were other folks who—This is the South, I was home, so there were a lot of people here. South, I had no family here now, but he used to have a lot of friends coming in.	0:58
Mary Hebert	Did he go to Booker T Washington High?	1:15
Lena Baker Bass	Yes, he graduated from Booker T.	1:17
Mary Hebert	Did his family come from here originally?	1:23
Lena Baker Bass	His father was from Portsmouth. His father was a pharmacist. His mother is from Columbia, South Carolina. She came here, I think. She didn't teach in Norfolk. I think she came to Hampton Institute in the summer. I think that's how his father met her.	1:26
Mary Hebert	She was from North Carolina, you said?	1:50
Lena Baker Bass	South Carolina. I think his mother's pretty.	1:52
Mary Hebert	How did Norfolk differ from Williamsburg? Was it much different?	1:59
Lena Baker Bass	Yes and no. Well, having reared in Williamsburg where everybody knew everybody. See, Williamsburg is a small town. It was much smaller then, than it is now. And everybody knew just about everybody else. It was a little different in that she come in contact with a lot of folks every time you went out that she'd never seen before. To me it was like that. But Norfolk's people are very friendly. You'd never feel that—Well, I never was made to feel that I was a stranger at all. My husband was very outgoing person, and could have been that that had a lot to do with it.	2:08
Mary Hebert	You mentioned that you did a lot of entertaining in home and you went to the Palais Royale. Did y'all do other things like that for fun? Movies?	2:57
Lena Baker Bass	Yeah. Well, we went to the movies about twice a week. 25 cents, you go to the movies. But yes, we went to the movies a lot.	3:05
Mary Hebert	Which ones? Did you go to the ones on Church Street?The Booker T Washington.	3:17
Lena Baker Bass	Yeah, it's Booker Washington. Yeah.	3:24
Mary Hebert	Did you get involved in Norfolk Society at all? Some of the social events that was going on?	3:30
Lena Baker Bass	Yeah, some of them. Southaw belonged to or three clubs. He belonged to the Bachelor Benedicts, the Hiawathas, and I think some club. It used to be, there was was another club, but I've forgotten that one. But that one out of the existence. And he belonged to the Masons.	3:36
Mary Hebert	Did you belong to any organizations?	3:59
Lena Baker Bass	I belonged to a few social clubs. I belonged to the women's club of Norfolk. I belonged to Girlfriends Incorporated. That's a national organization. Let me see, the Melders is a local club.	3:59
Mary Hebert	What's the name of it?	4:19
Lena Baker Bass	Melders, M-E-L-D-E-R-S. Trousiers is a local club. That's about it.	4:20
Mary Hebert	Were they social clubs where you could have parties?	4:29
Lena Baker Bass	For the most part. The women's club is not. That's more of a civic club. But the others are more or less social clubs. And Girlfriends a national organization which undertakes things on a national scale. Your local chapters contribute to it.	4:34
Mary Hebert	Who were some of the people that you associated with? Were they doctors and teachers and those kinds of people?	4:56
Lena Baker Bass	Some of them. Not too many of them. I guess I would call them the upper class of folks, and we were probably middle class if they were to be said. I guess that's what you do.	5:04
Mary Hebert	When did you move into this neighborhood?	5:31
Lena Baker Bass	1963.	5:31
Mary Hebert	Was it—	5:31
Lena Baker Bass	The day before President Kennedy was assassinated. I remember we were unpacking the thing then and we laid right on that floor and stayed all day. We had moved about several times, but this was a—Where we finally—We had thought we were settled over there by the college, but then college took the property, so we came out here then. I didn't want to come out here.	5:34
Mary Hebert	Did the college buy the property from you?	6:05
Lena Baker Bass	Yes.	6:05
Mary Hebert	You wanted to stay in Norfolk? You didn't want to move to Virginia Beach?	6:05
Lena Baker Bass	I didn't. No. What happened was we owed $172 on that house and I didn't want to get under this thing of building another—Having a thing for the house. But when we found out we were going to have to leave, we came out here.	6:06
Mary Hebert	Did you build this house?	6:23
Lena Baker Bass	Yes, we built it.	6:28
Mary Hebert	Was it when this subdivision or neighborhood was being built? I've heard that this neighborhood, families can pass the houses onto their children.	6:30
Lena Baker Bass	Well, I guess we would. We talk about that a lot. The neighborhood has been kept up very well, I think, because there's no rental property. Everybody out here owns his property.	6:40
Lena Baker Bass	Recently, strangely enough—See, this was all Black. We have two White families out here now. But somebody died, the property was sold, and they brought out here. I had a friend that I—A White girl I taught with, that I positively told not to come out here. And my reason for it was I told her she and I would get along, but her friends weren't going to come out here. And she couldn't see. Well see, we were building a house at the time that she was coming out here with me to see it. And I would tell her, I said there's no reasoning, it's just thing. She said, "Could not buy a lot right up here?" I said, "I don't know." I said, "But I would not do it if I were you." So she didn't. And she was from upstate New York, so they had moved back up to up there in New York state, now. She retired. She was teaching law and history and he retired from the Navy.	6:53
Mary Hebert	And they moved back to—	7:59
Lena Baker Bass	They moved back. Yeah. Yeah.	8:00
Mary Hebert	Did you have many White friends in the—and she was one of your friends that you had?	8:02
Lena Baker Bass	I have had not a whole lot. In my home in Williamsburg, we were in the middle of White people, so I was accustomed to being around them. There weren't a whole lot of children, but there were some. Mrs. Graves, the lady who used to go to Richmond to shop, and whenever she went to Richmond, she always brought me back my ribbon for the season. That's all to say.	8:07
Mary Hebert	So your family was friendly with them?	8:34
Lena Baker Bass	Friendly with them.	8:36
Mary Hebert	Y'all were never treated badly by them.	8:36
Lena Baker Bass	Mm-mmm.	8:38
Mary Hebert	Did you ever feel as if you were treated as a second class citizen because of the system of segregation?	8:44
Lena Baker Bass	Yes, you felt it. There were certain things you couldn't do. And it's strange, I had trouble. My grandson that cooks doesn't know it and my son couldn't understand. I was telling him how he had to go to the back on the street cars when we had them. And then when the buses came, we were ushered to the back. They couldn't understand that.	8:51
Mary Hebert	Did you do much traveling?	9:16
Lena Baker Bass	Not a lot. When we did, we drove. You drove for more reasons than one.	9:19
Mary Hebert	Did you pack your lunch in the car or pack food in the car along with—	9:27
Lena Baker Bass	Sometimes. It depended on where we were going. Sometimes we just went. We did that, we knew we would have plenty of time to eat like that. Sometimes you plan, just go and spend a day and do that. But then as things opened up, we stopped it because you could stop at the restaurants on the road and you could go into a lot of them then. They were beginning to open up and you could go and get whatever you wanted on the road.	9:32
Mary Hebert	What about places to stay along the road? Did you ever take really long trips where you had to spend the night somewhere?	10:03
Lena Baker Bass	Not too often. We took trips, like to Atlanta, but we would go all the way. The two of us drove, so we would just take the trip in one day. You could make it in 10 hours.	10:09
Mary Hebert	And alternate driving?	10:26
Lena Baker Bass	Yeah.	10:27
Mary Hebert	Did you have problems stopping for gasoline along the way?	10:29
Lena Baker Bass	No. Never had that. But there were certain places we knew we weren't going to stop.	10:32
Mary Hebert	And that was just something that you knew in advance, that you wouldn't stop in a certain town?	10:43
Lena Baker Bass	Certain town, certain places in town, but you still wouldn't stop.	10:47
Mary Hebert	Did you ever fear for your husband's life when he was traveling to other places? Or he didn't travel that far?	10:54
Lena Baker Bass	No, he didn't travel that far. I never feared for his life.	10:59
Mary Hebert	So unlike Mr. Rivera who covered the lynchings in the-	11:03
Lena Baker Bass	Yeah, well now see, Eric—What's the name? Alec did more of that than Southaw did. And Alec did more traveling for the guy. What happened was that Alec was from down that way and he had all these contacts and when he heard of things, he would get down there and get them. And the papers would, I mean, they would take whatever he brought back.	11:06
Mary Hebert	But your husband didn't have to do that?	11:34
Lena Baker Bass	No, he didn't have to do that. I say he would go as far as North Carolina sometimes, but that was it.	11:36
Mary Hebert	Did y'all spend much time out at the beach?	11:45
Lena Baker Bass	I'm not a beach person, no.	11:47
Mary Hebert	Well, you looked at that photo and thought it may have been more of your husband. I was just wondering.	11:50
Lena Baker Bass	Oh.	11:54
Mary Hebert	Did he go out to the beach and take photographs?	11:54
Lena Baker Bass	Yeah, he did that sometimes.	11:56
Mary Hebert	What kinds of photos would he take? Was it—	11:59
Lena Baker Bass	Any kind.	12:01
Mary Hebert	Any kind?	12:03
Lena Baker Bass	Yeah. Well, for the newspaper he had to take whatever they sent. But when he retired and was on his own, I would say that principal work he did was with—He had the ILA organization here in Norfolk, and that was one of his—Well, that was his best account, I think.	12:04
Mary Hebert	That's a union?	12:32
Lena Baker Bass	Yes. International Longshoreman Association. I said this is a—What is this? Not call it regional, but in here, it served this whole area. Dad was probably—Well, that's groups of people, different groups, wherever they meet and all that sort of thing. If there is a particular incident that's going on, is any ships that come in, he'd have to take that. He'd had churches, weddings, parties, anything like that.	12:33
Mary Hebert	That was after he retired or while he was working?	13:11
Lena Baker Bass	Yeah. He had retired from that but was working for himself.	13:23
Mary Hebert	Is there anything that you'd like to talk about that we haven't covered in this?	13:27
Lena Baker Bass	I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I think he made, growing up, a contribution to the area. He was, I think, regarded as perhaps the best photographer in the area. And when people wanted things that they thought nobody else could get, they would call him. And I have not gone through his negatives, but I have been asked recently, I'm going to do it, to go through and see what he has of the—For instance, Attics Theater, the Booker T Theater that's here, that's being rebuilt. And they're wondering if he has pictures, had album. I mean, if I had any negatives. And also, not only of the building, but of things that went on there. Well, it's going to be difficult because I don't know how they would be—I know I could find the years because he has them filed in the years.	13:38
Mary Hebert	But you don't know—	14:39
Lena Baker Bass	But I don't know what to look for. I had a lady that called me, I guess it's been two or three weeks ago, very recently, and gave me her name and told me, she says she was calling me for one thing. I said what? She said, "I want you to look back into Mr. Bass's files and get a negative for me." I said, "In a negative?" I said, "You know how long it's been since the negative has been put there?" She wanted me to go back to 1958.	14:40
Lena Baker Bass	I told her, "There's no way in the world that I could find something in 1958." So then she wanted to know, well what had I done with this negative? I said, "I've done with everybody who's trying to tear out something that you know you're not going to use." I said, "I have tried to go through some of them that I thought there might be a call for." I said, "But not for any family pictures." I said to people that I just don't keep those. So she wants to come and get the rest of the negatives. I told her I was sorry that I wasn't going to have a thing, the rest of his negatives. But that's the sort of thing. I think he made a contribution and I think everybody respects them as such.	15:12
Mary Hebert	Did you go back to teaching eventually?	15:55
Lena Baker Bass	I taught. I retired in 1976.	15:59
Mary Hebert	And where'd you teach?	16:03
Lena Baker Bass	Well, I taught here in Norfolk. I taught in Norfolk. Not Virginia Beach. In Norfolk.	16:03
Mary Hebert	Did you teach in any of the integrated schools once they—	16:15
Lena Baker Bass	Yeah, I was moved when the schools were integrated in 1966. That's when they were integrated here. Yeah, I was moved then. I was one of the first that was moved. I went to Norview. I was at Tucker and I went to Norview Elementary.	16:19
Mary Hebert	Did your son attend an integrated school?	16:38
Lena Baker Bass	Yeah. He attended—Where was it? Betty Williams and then he went to Bayside High School. Then he finished Virginia Wesleyan.	16:42
Mary Hebert	Do you recall when, in the '58, when they closed the schools in Norfolk, did they close all of the schools or just the White schools?	16:58
Lena Baker Bass	Let's see now. Well, okay. I don't recall, but I think they closed them all. Yeah, they must have because they have a group of Black students that—What did they call them? The lost class. Anyhow, they've gotten back together now and they reach—No, I don't remember what they called them.	17:09
Mary Hebert	How did the civil rights movement impact Norfolk? Do you have many memories of that?	17:40
Lena Baker Bass	Yes. I remember some of the—Well, I remember for instance, when Martin Luther King came here, you couldn't get into what was the arena at that time. It was packed. And they had several rallies, they called them. I don't know a number of the people, but the NAACP took the lead and took lead of those sort of things.	17:49
Mary Hebert	Were you a member?	18:20
Lena Baker Bass	Yeah, I was a member of NAACP.	18:22
Mary Hebert	And your husband was, also?	18:22
Lena Baker Bass	Yeah.	18:22
Mary Hebert	Were y'all active in—	18:23
Lena Baker Bass	I won't say particularly active. We contributed to, but we weren't that active.	18:34
Mary Hebert	Those are all the questions I have, unless there's something else you want to add.	18:39
Lena Baker Bass	I don't know. This is a—You said it's going to be in the library at—	18:45
Mary Hebert	Norfolk State.	18:51
Lena Baker Bass	Norfolk State. Just a minute.	18:52
Mary Hebert	It's okay if I stop this now?	19:10
Lena Baker Bass	Yeah.	19:11

Item Info

Title:

Lena Bass interview recording, 1995 August 15

Date:

August 15, 1995

Creator:

Bass, Lena Baker

Contributor:

Hebert, Mary

Description:

Name: Lena Baker Bass; Date of birth: 1911-07-09; Place of birth: Williamsburg, VA; Occupation(s): educator; school teacher; Residence: Virginia Beach, VA
Informant ID: 951; Interviewed by: Mary Hebert.

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Language:

English

Digital Collection:

Behind the Veil

Source Collection:

Behind the Veil: Documenting African American Life in the Jim Crow South interviews, photographs, and project records, circa 1864-2011, bulk 1990-2004

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Provenance:

The David M. Rubenstein Rare Book and Manuscript Library acquired the Records of the Behind the Veil Oral History Project from the Duke University Center for Documentary Studies in 1997, 1998, 2000, and 2002.

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Limited Re-Use

CC BY-NC 4.0

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Copyright for content created by the Behind the Veil project is held by Duke University and made available to the public using a Creative Commons Attribution / Non-commercial (CC-BY-NC) license.

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RL00170-CS-1281
85f2535a-7206-4d01-b6f6-ee6b92a4bc31
behindtheveil
259e2524-4c12-4be5-8eca-275e77cc79cd
ark:/87924/r4k078929
259e2524-4c12-4be5-8eca-275e77cc79cd

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Lena Bass interview recording, 1995 August 15

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1. Lena Bass administrative file, 1995

John Hope Franklin Research Center

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Lena Bass interview recording, 1995 August 15

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John Hope Franklin Research Center

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