JoAnn Johnson interview recording, 1995 June 20

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Doris Dixon	Mrs. Johnson—	0:03
JoAnn Anderson Johnson	Mm-hmm.	0:04
Doris Dixon	—could you state your full name and date of birth, please?	0:04
JoAnn Anderson Johnson	JoAnn Johnson, birth is 1909, August the 9th.	0:10
Doris Dixon	And, Mrs. Johnson, you say you were born near Somerville, Tennessee?	0:20
JoAnn Anderson Johnson	Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.	0:24
Doris Dixon	What are your first memories of growing up in Somerville, or growing up in Fayette County, Tennessee?	0:25
JoAnn Anderson Johnson	Oh, I loved to go to school. Because, when we'd have, we'd both, we get out there to the railroad track and we just walked up there to school every day.	0:32
Doris Dixon	Mm-hmm.	0:41
JoAnn Anderson Johnson	Mm-hmm, have a good time and come back.	0:42
Doris Dixon	Mm-hmm.	0:43
JoAnn Anderson Johnson	Mm-hmm.	0:44
Doris Dixon	Can you describe your school, what it looked like? You're talking about grade school?	0:46
JoAnn Anderson Johnson	Mm-hmm.	0:51
Doris Dixon	Mm-hmm.	0:51
JoAnn Anderson Johnson	Mm-hmm. Well, it's just like in other schools, just classrooms and our teacher, she was real nice, Miss Norman.	0:52
Doris Dixon	Miss Norma. How many teachers did you have?	1:07
JoAnn Anderson Johnson	I can remember Miss Norman.	1:10
Doris Dixon	Mm-hmm.	1:10
JoAnn Anderson Johnson	Uh-huh.	1:10
Doris Dixon	In one year, how many teachers would be in that school building?	1:10
JoAnn Anderson Johnson	It'd be about, let's see, Miss Norman and— Who else? I don't, I can't remember now.	1:12
Doris Dixon	Okay.	1:13
JoAnn Anderson Johnson	Mm-hmm.	1:13
Doris Dixon	Do you remember how many students there might be?	1:21
JoAnn Anderson Johnson	How many students?	1:22
Doris Dixon	That might be in the classroom.	1:22
JoAnn Anderson Johnson	Oh, about 12, about 12.	1:26
Doris Dixon	Mm-hmm.	1:29
JoAnn Anderson Johnson	Mm-hmm.	1:29
Doris Dixon	Were they all the same grade?	1:32
JoAnn Anderson Johnson	Mm-hmm.	1:34
Doris Dixon	And what did your father do? Were you farmers?	1:39
JoAnn Anderson Johnson	He was a farmer, mm-hmm.	1:42
Doris Dixon	Did you sharecrop or did you rent, or—?	1:44
JoAnn Anderson Johnson	He sharecropped, mm-hmm.	1:46
Doris Dixon	Mm-hmm. What exactly did that involve? Could you tell me about the settling up?	1:49
JoAnn Anderson Johnson	Oh, settling up. See, he was a farmer but he would rent and he start renting his land, and he just settled on whatever he'd make, it'd be here.	1:54
Doris Dixon	Mm-hmm.	2:04
JoAnn Anderson Johnson	Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.	2:04
Doris Dixon	Did you help him on the farm?	2:14
JoAnn Anderson Johnson	Uh-huh.	2:15
Doris Dixon	What kind of work did you do?	2:17
JoAnn Anderson Johnson	Chop cotton and pick cotton.	2:19
Doris Dixon	Mm-hmm.	2:20
JoAnn Anderson Johnson	Mm-hmm.	2:20
Doris Dixon	Mm-hmm. Did you like doing?	2:27
JoAnn Anderson Johnson	Mm-mm.	2:27
Doris Dixon	What would you have preferred to do? What would you have liked to do other than that?	2:30
JoAnn Anderson Johnson	I would just rather just went on and try to finish school, mm-hmm.	2:37
Doris Dixon	Mm-hmm.	2:39
JoAnn Anderson Johnson	But I couldn't do it, because a certain season you had to be, had to come out of the school, I mean, I had to, and go to work in the field.	2:40
Doris Dixon	Mm-hmm.	2:52
JoAnn Anderson Johnson	Mm-hmm.	2:52
Doris Dixon	How often, how long during the day would you have to spend in the field?	2:54
JoAnn Anderson Johnson	From— about eight hour.	2:56
Doris Dixon	Mm-hmm.	2:56
JoAnn Anderson Johnson	Mm-hmm.	2:56
Doris Dixon	From sun up to—	2:56
JoAnn Anderson Johnson	Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.	2:56
Doris Dixon	So, was it, you said you didn't get a chance to finish school because you had to pick and chop cotton?	3:11
JoAnn Anderson Johnson	Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.	3:14
Doris Dixon	Was that pretty common for people not to do that?	3:16
JoAnn Anderson Johnson	I'd say it was pretty common.	3:19
Doris Dixon	Mm-hmm.	3:20
JoAnn Anderson Johnson	Mm-hmm. Back in those days.	3:20
Doris Dixon	Mm-hmm.	3:20
JoAnn Anderson Johnson	Mm-hmm.	3:20
Doris Dixon	Did you get to go to town much?	3:25
JoAnn Anderson Johnson	Go where?	3:26
Doris Dixon	Go into the neighboring towns?	3:28
JoAnn Anderson Johnson	Mm-hmm.	3:29
Doris Dixon	Mm-hmm.	3:32
JoAnn Anderson Johnson	On down to Somerville and Whiteville.	3:32
Doris Dixon	Mm-hmm.	3:33
JoAnn Anderson Johnson	Mm-hmm.	3:38
Doris Dixon	And, did you ever go to the stores?	3:38
JoAnn Anderson Johnson	Mm-hmm.	3:39
Doris Dixon	Can you tell me something about shopping in those?	3:42
JoAnn Anderson Johnson	Well, see, we always buy the clothes at Mr. Morris because I would always get our groceries and stuff. We'd go there and shop.	4:00
Doris Dixon	Mm-hmm.	4:00
JoAnn Anderson Johnson	Mm-hmm.	4:00
Doris Dixon	How were you treated?	4:04
JoAnn Anderson Johnson	They treat us real nice.	4:06
Doris Dixon	Mm-hmm.	4:07
JoAnn Anderson Johnson	Mm-hmm. Because we didn't have no trouble with him.	4:09
Doris Dixon	Was he White or Black?	4:13
JoAnn Anderson Johnson	He was White.	4:14
Doris Dixon	Mm-hmm.	4:14
JoAnn Anderson Johnson	Uh-huh.	4:14
Doris Dixon	But he didn't make a difference between White and Black?	4:15
JoAnn Anderson Johnson	Mm-mm, mm-mm.	4:16
Doris Dixon	You said you bought your clothes there?	4:19
JoAnn Anderson Johnson	Uh-huh, got all the clothes there and everything.	4:20
Doris Dixon	So, your mother didn't sew your, make your clothes?	4:25
JoAnn Anderson Johnson	Yeah, she'd make, she was a seamstress. She, uh-huh, made my own clothes.	4:29
Doris Dixon	Mm-hmm.	4:29
JoAnn Anderson Johnson	Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.	4:30
Doris Dixon	But you bought some of them too?	4:31
JoAnn Anderson Johnson	Mm-hmm.	4:32
Doris Dixon	Like what kinds of things would you buy?	4:33
JoAnn Anderson Johnson	Buy? Cloth.	4:34
Doris Dixon	Mm-hmm.	4:34
JoAnn Anderson Johnson	Mm-hmm.	4:34
Doris Dixon	Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. And so, you bought cloth or groceries?	4:43
JoAnn Anderson Johnson	Mm-hmm.	4:45
Doris Dixon	Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. And you said Mr. Morris was pretty, treated you pretty well?	4:46
JoAnn Anderson Johnson	Uh-huh, mm-hmm.	4:49
Doris Dixon	Mm-hmm. What about for fun, what'd you do for fun?	4:55
JoAnn Anderson Johnson	Oh. Oh, in the summer time, we'd go and picnic, and laid back. Uh-huh, picnicking. Mm-hmm. And, go to town and around on the bikes, and on Saturdays go to town.	5:02
Doris Dixon	Mm-hmm.	5:09
JoAnn Anderson Johnson	Mm-hmm.	5:09
Doris Dixon	And, what would you do when you got into town on Saturday?	5:23
JoAnn Anderson Johnson	Saturday, just walk around and meet the people. Uh-huh, uh-huh, uh-huh.	5:26
Doris Dixon	Who do you remember? Are there particular people that you think about a lot?	5:28
JoAnn Anderson Johnson	Huh?	5:28
Doris Dixon	Are there particular people or are there certain people that you think about a lot?	5:38
JoAnn Anderson Johnson	Oh, a lot of my friends out there. They all are, my sister-in-law, and in-laws. Because they used to, we always used to meet up in town, we'd go to town, and socialize.	5:46
Doris Dixon	Mm-hmm.	5:58
JoAnn Anderson Johnson	Mm-hmm. I'd say that's about—	5:58
Doris Dixon	Mm-hmm. Do you remember the picnics?	5:58
JoAnn Anderson Johnson	Uh-huh.	5:58
Doris Dixon	What kinds of things did you do on the picnic?	5:58
JoAnn Anderson Johnson	The picnic, we just sat and played games. Mm-hmm, played a lot of games unless they had a baseball.	6:27
Doris Dixon	Mm-hmm.	6:27
JoAnn Anderson Johnson	Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.	6:27
Doris Dixon	What kind of games did you play?	6:27
JoAnn Anderson Johnson	Huh?	6:27
Doris Dixon	What games did you play?	6:27
JoAnn Anderson Johnson	I just played baseball.	6:27
Doris Dixon	Oh, really?	6:27
JoAnn Anderson Johnson	Uh-huh.	6:27
Doris Dixon	Tell me about that.	6:27
JoAnn Anderson Johnson	That is, you know it's fun then. Get out there and catch the ball, and pitch, everything. That's all that you needed.	6:27
Doris Dixon	Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.	6:27
JoAnn Anderson Johnson	It was good. So, it was just fun. Anything to, you know, have fun.	6:27
Doris Dixon	What other games did you play?	6:27
JoAnn Anderson Johnson	That's about all.	6:27
Doris Dixon	Mm-hmm.	6:27
JoAnn Anderson Johnson	Uh-huh, uh-huh, uh-huh.	6:27
Doris Dixon	Did you ever play checkers?	6:27
JoAnn Anderson Johnson	Oh yeah. I played, I used to play cards, we used to play cards.	6:27
Doris Dixon	Back in the Fayette County or when you came to Memphis?	6:27
JoAnn Anderson Johnson	Back in Fayette County, uh-huh. Five Up and Pit Pat.	6:27
Doris Dixon	Where would you play cards?	6:27
JoAnn Anderson Johnson	At the house.	6:27
Doris Dixon	Mm-hmm.	6:27
JoAnn Anderson Johnson	Uh-huh, where I lived at. Mm-hmm.	6:27
Doris Dixon	And people would come over?	6:27
JoAnn Anderson Johnson	Uh-huh. Mm-hmm.	6:27
Doris Dixon	And what kinds of things would you talk about?	6:27
JoAnn Anderson Johnson	Huh?	6:27
Doris Dixon	What kinds of things would you talk about?	6:27
JoAnn Anderson Johnson	Oh, we just talk about everything. We'd just have a good time. I remember we used to, we'd bake a cake. Whatever we— And just have that for the, whoever win the game will get the cake and either chicken, or just anything.	7:40
Doris Dixon	Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.	7:53
JoAnn Anderson Johnson	Mm-hmm, like that, you know?	7:54
Doris Dixon	Mm-hmm.	7:54
JoAnn Anderson Johnson	Uh-huh.	7:54
Doris Dixon	How many people might be over there at one time?	7:56
JoAnn Anderson Johnson	It'd be about four of us, I think.	7:57
Doris Dixon	Mm-hmm.	8:12
JoAnn Anderson Johnson	Mm-hmm.	8:12
Doris Dixon	And who would make the cake?	8:12
JoAnn Anderson Johnson	I would.	8:12
Doris Dixon	Did you ever win your own cake?	8:12
JoAnn Anderson Johnson	Uh-uh. Uh-uh. I sure didn't. Somebody else would win it.	8:12
Doris Dixon	Mm-hmm.	8:13
JoAnn Anderson Johnson	Mm-hmm. So, I'd say that was the fun part, somebody else win the cake and you had to, we just have, put, I mean, bake a chicken and put it up. Mm-hmm.	8:13
Doris Dixon	Do you remember any times that weren't so fun?	8:29
JoAnn Anderson Johnson	Hm?	8:33
Doris Dixon	Any times, things that happened that weren't so fun, that, some of the bad things that might've happened?	8:34
JoAnn Anderson Johnson	Oh, let's see. Bad things— No.	8:42
Doris Dixon	Mm-hmm.	8:51
JoAnn Anderson Johnson	I don't think so, mm-mm.	8:53
Doris Dixon	Did you have any friends or family that ever got hurt?	8:56
JoAnn Anderson Johnson	No. I know. Yeah, my sister, the one, Netty, when she was about 13, 14 years old.	9:00
Doris Dixon	Mm-hmm.	9:11
JoAnn Anderson Johnson	We had to moved to Champaign, Illinois, and she got shot.	9:16
Doris Dixon	You moved to where?	9:21
JoAnn Anderson Johnson	We had moved up into Illinois.	9:23
Doris Dixon	Okay.	9:23
JoAnn Anderson Johnson	Uh-huh. And, she got shot.	9:25
Doris Dixon	What happened?	9:31
JoAnn Anderson Johnson	The man just shot her.	9:32
Doris Dixon	Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.	9:33
JoAnn Anderson Johnson	And just all— set all off, mm-hmm. He just, they said he'd just rest up over— You used to keep your gun up on the door.	9:40
Doris Dixon	Mm-hmm.	9:40
JoAnn Anderson Johnson	And he was resting, then got the gun, and just blazed away.	9:48
Doris Dixon	Mm-hmm, mm-hmm, mm-hmm. And she— he killed her?	9:48
JoAnn Anderson Johnson	Uh-huh.	9:48
Doris Dixon	Okay. What was her name?	9:48
JoAnn Anderson Johnson	Netty Belle.	9:48
Doris Dixon	Netty Belle.	9:48
JoAnn Anderson Johnson	Mm-hmm.	9:57
Doris Dixon	And, when did you all move up there?	9:57
JoAnn Anderson Johnson	When Champaign?	9:58
Doris Dixon	Mm-hmm.	9:58
JoAnn Anderson Johnson	That was in the '40s.	9:58
Doris Dixon	Okay.	9:58
JoAnn Anderson Johnson	Mm-hmm.	9:58
Doris Dixon	So, your whole family?	10:05
JoAnn Anderson Johnson	Uh-huh, uh-huh. Because we stayed up in Champaign, Illinois for about three years.	10:06
Doris Dixon	Mm-hmm.	10:11
JoAnn Anderson Johnson	Uh-huh. And I was always— See, my uncle lived in St. Louis.	10:11
Doris Dixon	Mm-hmm.	10:21
JoAnn Anderson Johnson	And I was— I had gone on the train that morning going over to see them. And got there, and that's the news I got that my sister had got shot.	10:21
Doris Dixon	You had gone to St. Louis?	10:26
JoAnn Anderson Johnson	Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. And so, my daddy went down there but when he got there, at that time, they wasn't embalming too many people.	10:26
Doris Dixon	Mm-hmm.	10:26
JoAnn Anderson Johnson	Mm-hmm, so they—	10:26
Doris Dixon	There wasn't any what?	10:32
JoAnn Anderson Johnson	Wasn't embalming too many—	10:42
Doris Dixon	Oh, okay, embalming, right, right.	10:44
JoAnn Anderson Johnson	Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.	10:44
Doris Dixon	So, what'd they do with the bodies?	10:45
JoAnn Anderson Johnson	They'd just go ahead, get right on the burial.	10:47
Doris Dixon	Mm-hmm.	10:50
JoAnn Anderson Johnson	Mm-hmm, mm-hmm, mm-hmm. Yeah, that was just something that couldn't be helped.	10:50
Doris Dixon	Mm-hmm.	10:50
JoAnn Anderson Johnson	They didn't do nothing with the young man that shot her. Her husband figured it was accident. Mm-hmm.	10:58
Doris Dixon	But you know better?	11:10
JoAnn Anderson Johnson	I know, that's right, I knew better.	11:10
Doris Dixon	What do you think happened?	11:12
JoAnn Anderson Johnson	I think, I don't know what he was— In them time of days, if you be messing on a man and a man don't like it, he'll just up and kill you.	11:14
Doris Dixon	Mm-hmm.	11:30
JoAnn Anderson Johnson	Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.	11:30
Doris Dixon	If you do what to a man?	11:30
JoAnn Anderson Johnson	I mean, if he had, just like if you was going with a man—	11:30
Doris Dixon	Mm-hmm.	11:30
JoAnn Anderson Johnson	—and he don't like what you're doing, it wasn't quite natural, he going get rid of you.	11:31
Doris Dixon	Right, right.	11:34
JoAnn Anderson Johnson	Uh-huh, uh-huh.	11:35
Doris Dixon	Did that happen to anybody else you know?	11:36
JoAnn Anderson Johnson	No, uh-uh.	11:38
Doris Dixon	Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. Tell us more about the way men and women got along in those days.	11:39
JoAnn Anderson Johnson	In those days? Well, they got along pretty good. But you know how the men went, men is.	11:48
Doris Dixon	Mm-hmm.	11:52
JoAnn Anderson Johnson	Some—	11:52
Doris Dixon	How are men? I don't know.	11:52
JoAnn Anderson Johnson	Huh?	11:52
Doris Dixon	Tell me, I don't know.	11:56
JoAnn Anderson Johnson	You don't know?	11:59
Doris Dixon	Uh-uh.	11:59
JoAnn Anderson Johnson	Well, they got along pretty good, some of them did and some of them didn't.	12:02
Doris Dixon	Mm-hmm.	12:05
JoAnn Anderson Johnson	Mm-hmm, mm-hmm, mm-hmm. Because I know just like, some men and women, some would stay together and some would separate, and all like that.	12:06
Doris Dixon	Mm-hmm.	12:19
JoAnn Anderson Johnson	Mm-hmm.	12:19
Doris Dixon	Do you remember some of the ones that separated?	12:21
JoAnn Anderson Johnson	Mm-hmm. Because, I know my mother and dad, they separated when they was kind of getting up in age too.	12:23
Doris Dixon	Mm-hmm.	12:32
JoAnn Anderson Johnson	Mm-hmm. Because, my mother lived with me until my daddy died.	12:37
Doris Dixon	Mm-hmm.	12:40
JoAnn Anderson Johnson	Mm-hmm.	12:40
Doris Dixon	Mm-hmm.	12:41
JoAnn Anderson Johnson	Because I had her in the house with me and my daddy was, lived there too, but he lived in a separate room.	12:43
Doris Dixon	Okay.	12:53
JoAnn Anderson Johnson	And so, he had that stroke that morning, so he lived about two days and he passed.	12:53
Doris Dixon	Mm-hmm.	12:58
JoAnn Anderson Johnson	Mm-hmm.	12:58
Doris Dixon	And you said they were separated?	13:00
JoAnn Anderson Johnson	Mm-hmm.	13:06
Doris Dixon	Why was that?	13:07
JoAnn Anderson Johnson	I don't know, something come up between them.	13:07
Doris Dixon	Mm-hmm.	13:07
JoAnn Anderson Johnson	Mm-hmm. Never did explain to us, you know.	13:08
Doris Dixon	Mm-hmm. So now, where were you all living then?	13:09
JoAnn Anderson Johnson	We were living up in near Whiteville, Tennessee.	13:14
Doris Dixon	Okay.	13:19
JoAnn Anderson Johnson	Uh-huh.	13:19
Doris Dixon	Okay. Let me see if I got it all straight. You were born in Fayette County.	13:22
JoAnn Anderson Johnson	Mm-hmm.	13:28
Doris Dixon	And then, somewhere in the '40s you moved to Champaign, Illinois.	13:28
JoAnn Anderson Johnson	Mm-hmm.	13:30
Doris Dixon	Then, you came to Memphis when?	13:34
JoAnn Anderson Johnson	In— Wait, now let me see if I can get that straight.	13:35
Doris Dixon	Okay, let's try.	13:42
JoAnn Anderson Johnson	'43— It was later than that though.	13:44
Doris Dixon	Mm-hmm.	13:49
JoAnn Anderson Johnson	Because I would be just guessing in the '40s.	13:49
Doris Dixon	Mm-hmm.	13:49
JoAnn Anderson Johnson	Mm-hmm.	13:49
Doris Dixon	Mm-hmm.	13:49
JoAnn Anderson Johnson	It's been a long time ago, ain't it?	13:59
Doris Dixon	Mm-hmm.	13:59
JoAnn Anderson Johnson	Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yes, in the '40s that would be, I'm guessing.	14:04
Doris Dixon	So you were already in Memphis by then?	14:05
JoAnn Anderson Johnson	Uh-huh, mm-hmm, mm-hmm.	14:05
Doris Dixon	Okay. Did you ever live anywhere else other than Illinois and Tennessee?	14:10
JoAnn Anderson Johnson	Mm-mm. That's all, Illinois and Tennessee.	14:12
Doris Dixon	Did you ever go to Chicago?	14:12
JoAnn Anderson Johnson	Mm-mm. I've been visiting but I never lived up there.	14:20
Doris Dixon	Okay.	14:22
JoAnn Anderson Johnson	Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.	14:22
Doris Dixon	Do you remember what'd you think when you went about Illinois in comparison to Tennessee?	14:26
JoAnn Anderson Johnson	Oh, Illinois was a nice place to go because I went to school up there.	14:31
Doris Dixon	Mm-hmm.	14:36
JoAnn Anderson Johnson	Mm-hmm. We'd go, White and Black went to school together. Mm-hmm.	14:36
Doris Dixon	And that didn't happen in Tennessee?	14:40
JoAnn Anderson Johnson	Mm-mm, mm-mm, mm-mm. White and Black went to school together, it didn't make any difference.	14:41
Doris Dixon	Mm-hmm.	14:50
JoAnn Anderson Johnson	Mm-mm.	14:51
Doris Dixon	How old were you?	14:52
JoAnn Anderson Johnson	Oh, I was about 18 or 19.	14:54
Doris Dixon	Mm-hmm. And, what kind of school was it?	15:06
JoAnn Anderson Johnson	Huh?	15:07
Doris Dixon	What kind of school?	15:09
JoAnn Anderson Johnson	What kind of school? That was from the 5th to the 6th.	15:10
Doris Dixon	Mm-hmm.	15:17
JoAnn Anderson Johnson	Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.	15:17
Doris Dixon	And you were 18 to 19—	15:17
JoAnn Anderson Johnson	No, I wasn't that old because we, I had been in the 5th grade, I had to be around about—	15:28
Doris Dixon	I was just waiting.	15:29
JoAnn Anderson Johnson	I couldn't have been over six or seven years old.	15:38
Doris Dixon	Mm-hmm.	15:42
JoAnn Anderson Johnson	Mm-hmm, mm-hmm, mm-hmm. Because that was in the early part of it.	15:42
Doris Dixon	Mm-hmm.	15:44
JoAnn Anderson Johnson	You know, it's been so long now because it's just, because I'll be, if I live to be 'til August the 9th, I'd be 55, I'll be 85 years old.	15:55
Doris Dixon	Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.	16:03
JoAnn Anderson Johnson	That's getting on up there.	16:05
Doris Dixon	Yes, it really is.	16:12
JoAnn Anderson Johnson	Uh-huh, mm-hmm, if I live to see the 9th of August.	16:12
Doris Dixon	Wow.	16:12
JoAnn Anderson Johnson	Uh-huh.	16:12
Doris Dixon	Are you going to do anything special?	16:12
JoAnn Anderson Johnson	Mm-mm.	16:12
Doris Dixon	How would you celebrate when you were living in Fayette County, how did they celebrate holidays and birthdays?	16:16
JoAnn Anderson Johnson	Oh, how did they celebrate them?	16:21
Doris Dixon	Mm-hmm.	16:32
JoAnn Anderson Johnson	Oh, they just, I don't, just have a birthday dinner or something like that, uh-huh.	16:32
Doris Dixon	Mm-hmm. And, how far away do you think you were from your nearest neighbors back in those days?	16:35
JoAnn Anderson Johnson	Back in those days? About as far from here, it wasn't too far, about hollering distance.	16:42
Doris Dixon	Mm-hmm.	16:46
JoAnn Anderson Johnson	Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.	16:46
Doris Dixon	So you could actually see their houses?	16:46
JoAnn Anderson Johnson	Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.	16:46
Doris Dixon	Did you all, was it like a— You were a sharecropper, was it like a plantation?	16:56
JoAnn Anderson Johnson	Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.	17:01
Doris Dixon	Mm-hmm. And how many families do you think might've been on a particular plantation?	17:02
JoAnn Anderson Johnson	There may have been four or five. Mm-hmm.	17:05
Doris Dixon	Do you remember the owner's name?	17:10
JoAnn Anderson Johnson	Mm-mm.	17:18
Doris Dixon	And did you ever, you lived on the same plantation the whole time or did you move around?	17:18
JoAnn Anderson Johnson	We moved around.	17:22
Doris Dixon	Mm-hmm.	17:22
JoAnn Anderson Johnson	Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.	17:24
Doris Dixon	Why would you move?	17:26
JoAnn Anderson Johnson	Because we, if my daddy sharecrop here this year, maybe next year he may move somewhere else.	17:29
Doris Dixon	Mm-hmm.	17:32
JoAnn Anderson Johnson	Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.	17:33
Doris Dixon	But did you know why he moved?	17:35
JoAnn Anderson Johnson	Mm-mm.	17:36
Doris Dixon	And so, he didn't tell you?	17:36
JoAnn Anderson Johnson	Mm-mm, mm-mm.	17:36
Doris Dixon	Mm-hmm. What about your mother? What do you remember about your mother?	17:53
JoAnn Anderson Johnson	My mother?	17:57
Doris Dixon	Mm-hmm.	18:05
JoAnn Anderson Johnson	She was a nice, quiet person.	18:07
Doris Dixon	Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.	18:07
JoAnn Anderson Johnson	Mm-hmm.	18:07
Doris Dixon	Did she go to church?	18:07
JoAnn Anderson Johnson	Mm-hmm, yeah, because I remember when we was little, she used to hitch up the horse and buggy, and we'd go to church. Uh-huh. Old then, mm-hmm.	18:07
Doris Dixon	Did you go to church every Sunday?	18:24
JoAnn Anderson Johnson	Mm-hmm.	18:55
Doris Dixon	Was there a preacher every Sunday?	18:55
JoAnn Anderson Johnson	Mm-hmm.	18:55
Doris Dixon	Mm-hmm.	18:55
JoAnn Anderson Johnson	Mm-hmm.	18:55
Doris Dixon	Or, was there a preacher or did sometimes you just, you'd go to Sunday school?	18:55
JoAnn Anderson Johnson	See, we'd go to Sunday school in the church, mm-hmm, mm-hmm.	18:55
Doris Dixon	Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.	18:55
JoAnn Anderson Johnson	Uh-huh. So, I was raised up in the church because after I got up some size, I was down in the nursery bowl.	18:55
Doris Dixon	Mm-hmm.	18:55
JoAnn Anderson Johnson	And then, from that to the choir.	18:55
Doris Dixon	Mm-hmm.	18:55
JoAnn Anderson Johnson	Uh-huh. Mm-hmm. Then, I was secretary of the Sunday school. I didn't have Sunday school. So, we just, I just worked all around in the church.	19:06
Doris Dixon	Mm-hmm. All around doing what?	19:26
JoAnn Anderson Johnson	Huh?	19:26
Doris Dixon	Doing what? You said you worked all around in the church?	19:26
JoAnn Anderson Johnson	Uh-huh, from the nursery bowl to the choir, the Sunday choir. And then, that's about it.	19:28
Doris Dixon	Mm-hmm, mm-hmm, mm-hmm. Tell me what, did you come to Memphis from Illinois or from Tennessee?	19:42
JoAnn Anderson Johnson	From Tennessee.	19:47
Doris Dixon	So you had moved back from Illinois to Fayette County?	19:48
JoAnn Anderson Johnson	Uh-huh, uh-huh.	19:52
Doris Dixon	And came into Memphis, but you don't, somewhere in the, what decade you think? Was it during a war—	19:52
JoAnn Anderson Johnson	No.	19:59
Doris Dixon	— or Depression maybe?	19:59
JoAnn Anderson Johnson	No, it was before the Depression.	19:59
Doris Dixon	Uh-huh.	19:59
JoAnn Anderson Johnson	Mm-hmm, yeah. At the time, that high water was— What year was that? '37?	20:10
Doris Dixon	I think it was '37.	20:10
JoAnn Anderson Johnson	'37 when—	20:11
Doris Dixon	When West Arkansas—	20:14
JoAnn Anderson Johnson	Uh-huh, uh-huh. Mm-hmm, around that time. Uh-huh, no, in that time, because I remember my mother was over in Arkansas somewhere when that.	20:19
Doris Dixon	Mm-hmm.	20:25
JoAnn Anderson Johnson	Mm-hmm. She was with some people though that when she came, she got back over here before the high water got up. Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.	20:27
Doris Dixon	What was she doing for them? What kind of work was she doing?	20:34
JoAnn Anderson Johnson	She was just a maid or— Mm-hmm.	20:44
Doris Dixon	Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. And then, she got back to Memphis?	20:44
JoAnn Anderson Johnson	Mm-hmm.	20:46
Doris Dixon	So, you were in Memphis by then?	20:46
JoAnn Anderson Johnson	Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.	20:47
Doris Dixon	Okay, okay. Tell me about working in John Gaston.	20:47
JoAnn Anderson Johnson	Oh, that was— Ooh, I worked there until I had a nervous breakdown. It was just, I'll tell you, see, we would clean up the patient—	20:57
Doris Dixon	Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.	21:03
JoAnn Anderson Johnson	— and go get the food, and give them their breakfast, and everything, and their dinner.	21:07
Doris Dixon	Right.	21:11
JoAnn Anderson Johnson	Mm-hmm. And, I'd clean up the floor.	21:14
Doris Dixon	Mm-hmm.	21:16
JoAnn Anderson Johnson	Mm-hmm. Because, in that time I worked on the fourth floor and that was the cleanest ward in the hospital there, because we kept that floor scrubbed and everything.	21:20
Doris Dixon	Mm-hmm.	21:28
JoAnn Anderson Johnson	Uh-huh, uh-huh. It was hard work. It wasn't making but about $15 dollars every two weeks.	21:31
Doris Dixon	Oh, wow.	21:31
JoAnn Anderson Johnson	In two weeks and it was hard work. Mm-hmm.	21:34
Doris Dixon	Was it just Black people doing that?	21:34
JoAnn Anderson Johnson	Uh-huh. Mm-hmm.	21:39
Doris Dixon	What kind of things did White people do at the hospital?	21:45
JoAnn Anderson Johnson	Oh, there were just your supervisor. Mm-hmm. Uh-huh.	21:49
Doris Dixon	Were you involved in the unions?	22:00
JoAnn Anderson Johnson	Huh?	22:00
Doris Dixon	Was there a union?	22:00
JoAnn Anderson Johnson	Union? Uh-uh. Mm-mm, mm-mm, no union.	22:00
Doris Dixon	What about what would you all do when something, somebody had a problem, when one of the workers had a problem, how would you handle it?	22:09
JoAnn Anderson Johnson	Just we went up, I mean, go to the head lady and let her know.	22:19
Doris Dixon	Mm-hmm.	22:24
JoAnn Anderson Johnson	And if she could solve it, she would solve it. But then, just—	22:24
Doris Dixon	Just go with it?	22:24
JoAnn Anderson Johnson	Mm-hmm.	22:24
Doris Dixon	Mm-hmm.	22:24
JoAnn Anderson Johnson	Mm-hmm. Because I know I was working that, one day I wanted to, it was snowing I think and I had to have some goulashes. And I just stayed over, I said, "Shoot, I'm old." See— seeing by myself. But she didn't like it, but there wasn't nothing she could do about it.	22:36
Doris Dixon	Mm-hmm.	22:48
JoAnn Anderson Johnson	Uh-huh. So I just stayed off and went on got to the mopping, and got me some so I could take care of myself.	22:49
Doris Dixon	Right.	22:55
JoAnn Anderson Johnson	Mm-hmm, mm-hmm, mm-hmm.	22:55
Doris Dixon	Right, right, right. What else do you remember?	23:04
JoAnn Anderson Johnson	Huh?	23:04
Doris Dixon	What else about that time at John Gaston?	23:04
JoAnn Anderson Johnson	In John Gaston? It was a nice place to work, but then still it just wasn't paying enough. And I, let me see, I think it was in that same year in 1937, '38— '38. I went into the hospital—	23:08
Doris Dixon	Mm-hmm.	23:21
JoAnn Anderson Johnson	— over there in John Gaston and I had a, what you call a cyst on your arm. Mm-hmm. And I had that removed. And then, after then I went— Where did I go then from there? I don't know. It'd be somewhere other than that. You know when John Gaston built that new wing over, out there over—	23:26
Doris Dixon	Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.	24:14
JoAnn Anderson Johnson	— when they built that new hospital at John Gaston?	24:16
Doris Dixon	I don't know.	24:18
JoAnn Anderson Johnson	I mean, no, no, no, you wouldn't. You wouldn't believe with me. But anyway, I was the first patient in that.	24:20
Doris Dixon	The new wing?	24:28
JoAnn Anderson Johnson	Uh-huh, uh-huh. Because I was a patient out there then, mm-hmm. And I stayed out there for about a year or more.	24:30
Doris Dixon	Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.	24:38
JoAnn Anderson Johnson	And then, I moved from there, when I left there I went— the thing go to the University of Tennessee.	24:44
Doris Dixon	Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.	24:50
JoAnn Anderson Johnson	I worked for a doctor over there. I used to clean up slides and those, everything like that, clean them up. I worked for him for a while.	24:50
Doris Dixon	Mm-hmm.	25:02
JoAnn Anderson Johnson	Mm-hmm. So—	25:05
Doris Dixon	Where did you live in Tennessee?	25:09
JoAnn Anderson Johnson	I lived out on campus.	25:13
Doris Dixon	Mm-hmm.	25:20
JoAnn Anderson Johnson	Mm-hmm. Campus would be in Olley Flat.	25:20
Doris Dixon	In what?	25:20
JoAnn Anderson Johnson	They called it Olley Flat.	25:20
Doris Dixon	Olley Flat?	25:21
JoAnn Anderson Johnson	Mm-hmm.	25:22
Doris Dixon	That was the name of the neighborhood?	25:22
JoAnn Anderson Johnson	Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. Olley Flat.	25:24
Doris Dixon	Olley Flat.	25:24
JoAnn Anderson Johnson	Mm-hmm.	25:27
Doris Dixon	What part of town was that in?	25:29
JoAnn Anderson Johnson	That was in, you see, that's in, that's right off of Florida Street.	25:34
Doris Dixon	Mm-hmm.	25:36
JoAnn Anderson Johnson	Down from the Florida Street School.	25:37
Doris Dixon	Mm-hmm.	25:38
JoAnn Anderson Johnson	Uh-huh, mm-hmm.	25:39
Doris Dixon	Was there any Black, any businesses over there?	25:46
JoAnn Anderson Johnson	Uh-huh, stores and shops, and things.	25:49
Doris Dixon	Mm-hmm.	25:49
JoAnn Anderson Johnson	Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.	25:49
Doris Dixon	Were any of them owned by Blacks?	25:49
JoAnn Anderson Johnson	Huh?	25:49
Doris Dixon	Were any of them owned by Black people?	25:49
JoAnn Anderson Johnson	No, most White. Mm-hmm.	25:58
Doris Dixon	No, most White.	26:00
JoAnn Anderson Johnson	You know where Clancy Street school is?	26:00
Doris Dixon	I think so.	26:00
JoAnn Anderson Johnson	No. Uh-huh.	26:00
Doris Dixon	I think so.	26:00
JoAnn Anderson Johnson	Uh-huh. Because I used to live not far right there in front before they tore them houses down.	26:00
Doris Dixon	Mm-hmm.	26:00
JoAnn Anderson Johnson	Uh-huh.	26:00
Doris Dixon	Before they tore what down?	26:00
JoAnn Anderson Johnson	There used to be some houses along there on Clancy Street.	26:00
Doris Dixon	Okay. I didn't know that.	26:00
JoAnn Anderson Johnson	Uh-huh, uh-huh. Now there's three apartments there now, mm-hmm.	26:00
Doris Dixon	So you lived over there too?	26:00
JoAnn Anderson Johnson	Uh-huh.	26:00
Doris Dixon	Where else did you live in Memphis? So you lived off of Florida?	26:00
JoAnn Anderson Johnson	Mm-hmm.	26:00
Doris Dixon	This was the same place, or?	26:00
JoAnn Anderson Johnson	No. And then see, I first, when I first moved to Memphis, I lived on Main, I mean, North Main, out there at Bocci Brother's houses, mm-hmm.	26:30
Doris Dixon	Mm-hmm.	26:38
JoAnn Anderson Johnson	Mm-hmm. And from there, I went down on Person, yeah, and then back on back to—	26:38
Doris Dixon	Back huh?	26:56
JoAnn Anderson Johnson	— back to Clancy.	26:56
Doris Dixon	Okay.	26:56
JoAnn Anderson Johnson	Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.	26:56
Doris Dixon	Where is Person?	27:01
JoAnn Anderson Johnson	Person? That's down in there about the riverside back in there. Uh-huh, mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.	27:03
Doris Dixon	So did you always live pretty close to the river?	27:08
JoAnn Anderson Johnson	Not too close, but pretty close there. Mm-hmm.	27:12
Doris Dixon	Mm-hmm.	27:14
JoAnn Anderson Johnson	Mm-hmm.	27:14
Doris Dixon	Do you remember Beale Street?	27:14
JoAnn Anderson Johnson	Uh-huh, uh-huh, uh-huh. You know, we have good people from Beale Street.	27:14
Doris Dixon	Mm-hmm.	27:24
JoAnn Anderson Johnson	Mm-hmm. But I never went down onto Beale Street to see the famous.	27:24
Doris Dixon	Mm-hmm.	27:29
JoAnn Anderson Johnson	Uh-huh, uh-huh.	27:29
Doris Dixon	Why was it famous?	27:29
JoAnn Anderson Johnson	Huh? Famous, you know where all the stars used to be.	27:33
Doris Dixon	Mm-hmm, like who?	27:43
JoAnn Anderson Johnson	Count Bass and Galloway, and all of them used to—	27:49
Doris Dixon	Mm-hmm.	27:50
JoAnn Anderson Johnson	Mm-hmm.	27:50
Doris Dixon	Did you ever see any of them?	27:50
JoAnn Anderson Johnson	Mm-hmm.	27:50
Doris Dixon	Who did you see?	27:50
JoAnn Anderson Johnson	Count Bass and what the other man name? I don't know, there's a lot of them, but there's a lot of them I can't even name now.	27:50
Doris Dixon	Mm-hmm.	28:03
JoAnn Anderson Johnson	Mm-hmm.	28:07
Doris Dixon	Did you ever go to the Malco Theater?	28:07
JoAnn Anderson Johnson	Uh-huh, mm-hmm.	28:09
Doris Dixon	What door do you, how did you get in there?	28:09
JoAnn Anderson Johnson	How I'd get in there? Oh, we'd just pay our fares and go in.	28:10
Doris Dixon	Mm-hmm.	28:14
JoAnn Anderson Johnson	Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.	28:14
Doris Dixon	But did you have to, did you go through the same door as the Whites?	28:16
JoAnn Anderson Johnson	Uh-huh, mm-hmm.	28:18
Doris Dixon	Okay.	28:18
JoAnn Anderson Johnson	Mm-hmm.	28:18
Doris Dixon	What other theaters are down there?	28:23
JoAnn Anderson Johnson	Hm?	28:27
Doris Dixon	What other theaters are down there?	28:27
JoAnn Anderson Johnson	Palace.	28:27
Doris Dixon	Mm-hmm.	28:27
JoAnn Anderson Johnson	Palace too, mm-hmm. In them days, Theater and Palace.	28:30
Doris Dixon	Mm-hmm.	28:30
JoAnn Anderson Johnson	Uh-huh.	28:31
Doris Dixon	Do you remember the Church Auditorium?	28:36
JoAnn Anderson Johnson	Huh?	28:43
Doris Dixon	Do you remember Church Auditorium? Church Auditorium?	28:45
JoAnn Anderson Johnson	Oh, Church Auditorium. Uh-huh, mm-hmm.	28:50
Doris Dixon	Did you ever go there?	28:50
JoAnn Anderson Johnson	Uh-huh, we went there too. Mm-hmm.	28:55
Doris Dixon	For what?	28:55
JoAnn Anderson Johnson	Huh?	28:55
Doris Dixon	What kinds of things do you go there for?	28:56
JoAnn Anderson Johnson	We've been to plays and things. Mm-hmm, mm-hmm, put on plays and things.	28:59
Doris Dixon	Mm-hmm.	28:59
JoAnn Anderson Johnson	Mm-hmm.	28:59
Doris Dixon	Who were your friends in those days?	28:59
JoAnn Anderson Johnson	Oh, oh. Can't name them.	28:59
Doris Dixon	But you can see them?	28:59
JoAnn Anderson Johnson	Uh-huh, uh-huh, mm-hmm.	28:59
Doris Dixon	What kinds of things do you all do for fun?	29:19
JoAnn Anderson Johnson	Oh, fun. Oh, we'd go to shows and, uh-huh, like that. Sometimes we'd go to a dance. Mm-hmm.	29:20
Doris Dixon	Did you play cards?	29:27
JoAnn Anderson Johnson	Mm-hmm.	29:30
Doris Dixon	What'd you play?	29:31
JoAnn Anderson Johnson	We played Five Up and, I mean, Five Up and Blackjack, and all of that there.	29:32
Doris Dixon	And, were these people you worked with?	29:46
JoAnn Anderson Johnson	Huh? Did I—	29:46
Doris Dixon	Did you work with these people? Where'd you meet your friends?	29:49
JoAnn Anderson Johnson	Oh, we'd just meet different places. Mm-hmm, mm-hmm, mm-hmm.	29:51
Doris Dixon	Did you ever go out with any people you worked with?	29:57
JoAnn Anderson Johnson	Uh-huh, mm-hmm. Yeah, mm-hmm. So, we just went about doing things, different things.	29:59
Doris Dixon	Can you remember anything about your family?	29:59
JoAnn Anderson Johnson	No. It's been so long and a lot of them I done forgot.	30:09
Doris Dixon	Yeah.	30:31
JoAnn Anderson Johnson	Uh-huh, uh-huh. And then, four uncles, 1980s, 1985, back there, back there. Because I remember my daddy used to raise tobacco.	30:31
Doris Dixon	Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.	30:42
JoAnn Anderson Johnson	That's when I started smoking and that's been a long time.	30:43
Doris Dixon	Yeah, yeah.	30:49
JoAnn Anderson Johnson	Uh-huh, uh-huh. Mm-hmm. But now, I don't do too much other than that. Just every once in a while after that maybe I'd get a cigarette and things.	30:56
Doris Dixon	Mm-hmm.	30:58
JoAnn Anderson Johnson	Uh-huh, uh-huh.	30:58
Doris Dixon	So you smoked? Did you roll your own?	30:58
JoAnn Anderson Johnson	Mm-hmm, mm-hmm, mm-hmm.	30:58
Doris Dixon	Did you have dip snuff?	30:58
JoAnn Anderson Johnson	Mm-mm.	30:58
Doris Dixon	Just a cigarette.	30:58
JoAnn Anderson Johnson	Mm-hmm.	30:58
Doris Dixon	What about your mother?	30:58
JoAnn Anderson Johnson	She dipped snuff. But I never. Mm-hmm. Yeah, just one of those things.	30:58
Doris Dixon	Yeah.	30:58
JoAnn Anderson Johnson	Mm-hmm.	30:58
Doris Dixon	Thank you.	30:58
JoAnn Anderson Johnson	Mm-hmm.	30:58
Doris Dixon	I'm going to go ahead and turn the tape recorder off.	30:59
JoAnn Anderson Johnson	Okay.	31:26

Item Info

Title:

JoAnn Johnson interview recording, 1995 June 20

Date:

June 20, 1995

Creator:

Johnson, JoAnn Anderson

Contributor:

Dixon, Doris

Description:

Name: JoAnn Anderson Johnson; Date of birth: 1909-08-09; Place of birth: Fayette Co., TN; Occupation(s): laundress; day laborer; hospital worker; Residence: Memphis, TN
Informant ID: 895; Interviewed by: Doris Dixon.

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Language:

English

Digital Collection:

Behind the Veil

Source Collection:

Behind the Veil: Documenting African American Life in the Jim Crow South interviews, photographs, and project records, circa 1864-2011, bulk 1990-2004

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Related Resources:

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Provenance:

The David M. Rubenstein Rare Book and Manuscript Library acquired the Records of the Behind the Veil Oral History Project from the Duke University Center for Documentary Studies in 1997, 1998, 2000, and 2002.

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Limited Re-Use

CC BY-NC 4.0

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Copyright for content created by the Behind the Veil project is held by Duke University and made available to the public using a Creative Commons Attribution / Non-commercial (CC-BY-NC) license.

Identifier:

RL00170-CS-0863
4f3ea5e5-7eec-41be-a5b8-10f7ad0b4da1
behindtheveil
1b7ba358-d00b-4f1c-a9cf-ff7a3c4de3b3
ark:/87924/r4q243832
1b7ba358-d00b-4f1c-a9cf-ff7a3c4de3b3

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JoAnn Johnson interview recording, 1995 June 20

Transcript

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1. JoAnn Johnson administrative file, 1995

John Hope Franklin Research Center

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JoAnn Johnson interview recording, 1995 June 20

Transcript

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John Hope Franklin Research Center

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