Cyrus Jackson interview recording, 1994 August 10

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Michele Mitchell	We need to back up to the point where you're talking about taking the students.	0:01
Cyrus Victor Jackson	Taking the students to unload some corn at this Hall Grain company. Was owned by Mr. Hall. And later turned out to be the New Iberia Commission Company, now, I believe. This old man went there with those students, and rather than call him Mister, and he was a little bitty man, but talk about he had guts, they walked up to him, "Uncle?" They had about five or six of those children. Said, "Uncle, are all of these your children?" That's the way he—	0:03
Michele Mitchell	Oh, God.	0:44
Cyrus Victor Jackson	That's what he— "Yes. Yes, Nephew. All of these are your first cousins." It embarrassed him.	0:45
Cyrus Victor Jackson	Another time he went by, they did him something, and he told them. He said, "If you put your hands on me, I'll kill you." And he meant it, too. He wouldn't call you— You remember they used to, I don't know if you— They'd tell you to call you uncle. Rather than call you mister, they'd call you uncle. And if they had children, little old bitty teenagers, if you were working for them, they'd tell you, "Go in the house and tell Miss so-and-so." And they're much younger than you. "I want you to call him Mr. and Mrs., or Ms. and Miss."	1:01
Cyrus Victor Jackson	So He told me that one day. I said, "Now, look Mr. So-and-so." I said, "Do you call Harold Mr. Harold?" He said, "I'm older than Harold." And he has a store right now, on the corner, a feed store on the corner of Hopkins. If you see Abad feeds, the food?	1:46
Michele Mitchell	Oh yeah.	2:11
Cyrus Victor Jackson	You see that place? The man who owns it, his named Harold. And he and I came up, I used to work for his daddy. And I walked in his store the other day to get something. And there was some Black people in there and the people who worked for him. And he looked up, my nickname was Shoo. Shoo-we. And when I walked in the store, he said, "Shoo, I haven't seen you in a long time." I said, "Harold, how are you doing?" See, all the rest of the Black people working around, they call him Mr. Abad, I call him Harold.	2:12
Cyrus Victor Jackson	And one of the fellas stopped dead in his tracks. Some of the old people used to come, call him, Black people, "Mister," you see? And when I said Howard, this young man, Black man, stopped dead in his tracks. And we just kept on talking, talking. "How many children you have, Harold?" And he would tell me. "How many? Good." And he's talking about his children, [indistinct 00:03:12]. "Okay, sure is good to see you." I said, "Okay, Harold." His brother used to live right across there.	2:51
Michele Mitchell	Where?	3:18
Cyrus Victor Jackson	Right across there. And he died sometime. His name was Donald, but we used to call him Fatty. And when I became pastor here, all the time, he used to call me Shoo, a nickname. But when I became pastor here, he said Reverend. And I'd go and talk with him sometime. I said, "Look, Donald. I'm still Cyrus." He said, "But Cyrus, I have to respect your title." And when he died, he was friendly to Blacks, when he died, Blacks flooded out at the funeral home. And she knew that I knew him, because he had told her we had come up together. And when he died, when I went to offer condolences, she just grabbed me.	3:20
Cyrus Victor Jackson	So that's the way I live with all the people. I've had some hard times. Nigger this. They didn't mind calling you nigger. Uncle. Addy. Just had, since the Supreme Court decide calling him Mr. And Mrs. And if you had an account at some of these stores and they knew who you were, they wouldn't Mr. or Mrs. when they send you bills. Just put your name there. Cyrus Jackson, that's— But now it's Reverend. Sometimes I get one that is Cyrus.	4:13
Cyrus Victor Jackson	Baby, you'd be surprised what we went through. You young people didn't have to go through that. And when I went through school, I thinking I might have been a junior or senior in high school, that's when they started getting free textbooks. We had to buy all of our books. Paper, pencil. Had to buy all our books.	5:01
Cyrus Victor Jackson	And in my day, the janitor, you're not going to believe this, the janitor at the White high school, that was the White high school there, right across the street, was being paid more than the principal at the Black high school. When I was in the teaching profession, Whites were paid more than Blacks. I had degrees and some of these people didn't have, just had—	5:30
Michele Mitchell	How much more?	6:04
Cyrus Victor Jackson	Well, I can't remember how much more. But they were paid more. So we start challenging them. And a lot of them said, "When a nigger going to make as much money as I make, then I'm going to quit teaching." But when they start paying them according to their degrees and their training, it turned out that more Blacks had degrees than Whites, and they all had to go back to school. Can you find some [indistinct 00:06:35] the White janitor at the White high schools being paid more than a Black principal at the Black high school? Right where RPTS was, it was Johnson Street Elementary School. Right where RPTS. You know how the school got to be there? The Blacks had to get together and buy the property.	6:05
Cyrus Victor Jackson	Nigger this, nigger that. And they didn't mind it. They didn't mind calling you nigger. That's what we had to go through. And after integration, that's when it sucked. That's when it really hit the fan. Teachers. See, some of our teachers have come to become too complacent. They're too complacent. And we have such a terrible turnover now. And sometimes you can't blame [indistinct 00:08:08]. Can't blame our teachers for not wanting to get out. Some of our best teachers are getting out of the system. If some of them had better opportunities, more so, a lot of them would be out.	7:13
Cyrus Victor Jackson	When I was in school, you knew who your teacher was going to be from year to year. I used to make my assignments in the summer, just from my roll, I knew who's going to be there. When I went to the roll, I could tell where's so and so. I'd make my assignments for each teacher. I've had two second grade teachers, I'd divide the children. On the first day of school here, this is your roll. At the end of the month, first month report, where's so and so? I could pinpoint them.	8:23
Cyrus Victor Jackson	And I didn't have a secretary. I knew the teachers and I knew the parents. And I knew the children. It wasn't too hard for me because a lot of those children, I went to school with their parents, and later on the grandparents. You heard the lady who came in here a while ago. She said she has grandchildren. I didn't know her, she remembered me.	8:58
Cyrus Victor Jackson	I called one's house last night by mistake. And when I told her who I was, "No, Reverend Jackson, this is the [indistinct 00:09:34] so and so." So I said, "Who is this?" "Lillian." I said, "Lillian who?" "Lillian Miller. You don't remember me, all the trouble I used to give you?" "Let's see. Yeah, Lillian. How many children?" "Rev, I got grandchildren now." It's been enjoyable, a lot of people I meet. See, I don't know if anybody told about Judge Porter?	9:26
Michele Mitchell	Heard about him, yeah.	10:01
Cyrus Victor Jackson	Heard about him. Well, that's my ex-student. He's the first Black district attorney. We have two judges in this 16th judicial district, and he's one of them. There's pictures of us, or there's picture of that somewhere. All of my students.	10:01
Cyrus Victor Jackson	Washington Junior, who is an outstanding physician in Lafayette. Incidentally, I got to call now to go see, check me, and when I'll go. When Medicare pays, that's all he takes. He won't send me a bill or nothing. I had a serious problem and I couldn't get to see a doctor for about at least six or seven weeks. And I called him, he told me, "You sit there. You'll get a call." He had a friend, a urologist in Baton Rouge. Just said, "Sit there and somebody going to call you." In less than an hour, I got a call. Gave me an appointment in next three days. Finally, I had to go to surgery and I went over there and I haven't had any problems since. It's been almost four years.	10:28
Cyrus Victor Jackson	But you see, those are my students, ex-students, and they treat me like a king, most of them, when they see me. I've touched the lives of a whole lot of people, touched the lives of [indistinct 00:11:52], especially in the field of education. And I've tried to be on the level with them. Tell them the truth. I'm trying to be truthful with everybody.	11:30
Cyrus Victor Jackson	This is Porter. I was both his principal and his wife's principal. Gemmy K, is his wife. His father and I were close. His father is dead. Jake Porter. I walked in the meat market the other day. Soon as I walked in, the young man said, "Well, look at Rev." This White fella. Said, "Rev, how have you been?" I said, "I've been fine." He said, "You don't remember me." I said, "No." He said, "I'm David."	12:15
Michele Mitchell	[indistinct 00:13:13].	13:10
Cyrus Victor Jackson	Come in.	13:12
Janna	How are you?	13:12
Cyrus Victor Jackson	Here I am. He said, "I'm David." I'm in the finance room. I said, "I'm David." Huh? Come on. Hello. Come in baby. That's Janna.	13:12
Janna	Hi.	13:35
Michele Mitchell	How you doing?	13:35
Janna	All right.	13:35
Cyrus Victor Jackson	It's my gran— You said where's your mama? Who is that?	13:35
Cyrus Victor Jackson	[indistinct 00:13:39] go to church. Tell your mama to come here. That's Cheryl's daughter. [indistinct 00:13:45] one day, she's about six years old. I threatened to spank her. This being recorded?	13:39

Michele Mitchell	Right about now is fine.	0:02
Cyrus Victor Jackson	My name is Cyrus Victor Jackson. I was born January the 25th, 1915 in the Fifth Ward of Iberia Parish. I'm in Parish, Louisiana.	0:04
Michele Mitchell	Perfect. First sir, I think I'd like to know not being from here, where is the Fifth district of Iberia Parish?	0:25
Cyrus Victor Jackson	Parish? When the Fifth Parish is?	0:33
Michele Mitchell	Fifth Ward.	0:35
Cyrus Victor Jackson	Fifth Ward is in, oh, the Southwestern section of the parish. See, the parishes is divided into wards. And the Fifth Ward is Southwesterly direction. Okay, what else?	0:36
Michele Mitchell	And what was it like out there? What did your parents do?	1:08
Cyrus Victor Jackson	Well, my parents were sharecroppers. I was born on the same plantation that my father was born. My grandfather worked as a blacksmith on the Hamilton Derouen, H-A-M-I-L-T-O-N D-E-R-O-U-E-N, Derouen Plantation. And my father was drafted in World War I when I was three years old. And we moved, my mother, younger brother, and sister and I moved to the city of New Iberia. And my sister, no, just a brother and I. Sister was born, well, she was born three months after my daddy went to the army, World War I. And this incident that she's here now, she lives in South Carolina. She's visiting with us now.	1:12
Michele Mitchell	Yes.	2:35
Cyrus Victor Jackson	All right.	2:36
Michele Mitchell	Yes. And this is Derouen Plantation?	2:37
Cyrus Victor Jackson	Derouen plantation. My father was born there. My grandfather served as a blacksmith on that plantation. Of course, my mother was born in the adjoining parish, Lafayette Parish, which is in the same general direction, location rather. My mother's maiden name was Gilliam, G-I-L-L-I-A-M.	2:45
Michele Mitchell	And what was her first name?	3:18
Cyrus Victor Jackson	Mary. M-A-R-Y.	3:19
Michele Mitchell	And your father's name?	3:25
Cyrus Victor Jackson	My father's name was Victor Jackson.	3:26
Michele Mitchell	What do you remember about your parents?	3:32
Cyrus Victor Jackson	Oh, I remember a lot about my parents. I was a grandfather on both pressed. Forgot what year my mother passed in, but she was 86 years old. Subtract 80 from 26. From 80. From 80. Oh, let's see, I was 20 years old. She was 20 years older than I. Exactly 20 years. She's exactly 20 years older than I. And she was born in on the 15th of January. And I came on the 25th of January, nine days after. All right. What else you want on my mother?	3:35
Cyrus Victor Jackson	By trade, my father was a barber. He did that until he passed. He had another trade, he was a shoe cobbler. He passed in the Veterans, I can't remember the year. I should have brought that. I can't remember. In the Veteran's Hospital in Alexandria. He was a veteran of World War I. My mother was a housewife when she did domestic work for different families. She did washing and iron and I remember time having to deliver clothes on horseback or in a buggy. And she really held that family together. She could not read and write, but she believed vehemently in education and she sacrificed a lot to get us through. I'm the oldest of eight children.	4:22
Michele Mitchell	You're the oldest of eight?	5:43
Cyrus Victor Jackson	Oldest of eight. And she saw to it that five of the eight were educated.	5:44
Michele Mitchell	Oh, that's something.	5:57
Cyrus Victor Jackson	Five of the eight that were educated, four of us have advanced degrees. And one, my baby's sister passed. She was a fifth baby child. I know out the five that were high school, finished college and did graduate. Three of us became principals. I'm using personal pronoun, but I was fortunate to write in this city alone, to be principal of three different schools for Florence Pemilton, A. B. Simon, and Jonas Henderson Junior High School.	5:57
Michele Mitchell	Being that you grew up here in New Iberia, you said that you moved to New Iberia.	6:56
Cyrus Victor Jackson	I was three years old.	7:02
Michele Mitchell	And you were three years old. What did you do? Your mother sounds like she worked really hard to make sure that you get your education. What did you do for your education?	7:05
Cyrus Victor Jackson	Well, I worked on the farm as a youngster. Then when I finished high school and I was out of school, high school for two years. Two and a half years and actually amounted to three years, and I went back to high school at my mother's insistence and I graduated from high school as the oldest one in my class, 21 years old. And unbeknowing to me, my mother was gathering under clothes and other paraphernalia for me to go to school. I had a good friend to whom I was very close, and the two of them got together unbeknowing to me, and they were getting those things together for me. And when time came for me to go to school, she had everything for him. She hit them in a trunk and I didn't even know right there in the house. And with tears in eyes on Sunday afternoon, she called me, told me what she had done and everything. And she said, here is $17. You go to school. That's all mama has. She gave me every penny she had.	7:13
Cyrus Victor Jackson	And my baby brother with a wheelbarrow brought my trunk to the highway, just one highway out, in and out of [indistinct 00:08:59]. And I hitchhiked from here to Baton Rouge with a trunk. And when I got to the campus, I had 16 and a half dollars. Leland College at Baker, Louisiana. And when it came time for registration, I went into the president with my friend and he was actually paving away. His name was Daniel W. Haley. He now resides in Seattle, Washington. And I told the president, that's all I had. And he asked me what could I do? I told him I was a farm boy and the school was located on a 245 acre farm. And because I had come off the farm, I knew a lot about the farm and I immediately got a job on the farm, which paid half of my schooling. And guess what the tuition was at that time?	8:44
Michele Mitchell	What was it?	10:20
Cyrus Victor Jackson	$17 and 50 cents a month to board. And the reason why we paid 50 cents extra because the girls used to take our shirts, wash our clothes in the laundry, and the girls paid $17. We paid 50 cents more because the girls had to do our laundry and some of the girls worked in the laundry. And later on, I went to janitor in what we call a practice school. And then from there, I assisted the librarian. And then in my senior year, I taught that high school on the same campus. I taught PE, and the last quarter, we weren't semesters, we were in quarters, three quarters. I did my student teaching in French. And when I finished my student teaching, I was through with all of the requirements and I was getting ready to come home. I found out later that if I had gotten here that Sunday, I had a job waiting for me that Monday.	10:21
Cyrus Victor Jackson	But Leland had been very kind to me and they reminded me of that. And the French class was overcrowded and they asked me to stay on the rest of the year to teach that section of the French, and that's what I did. I came back home and I immediately got a job at the same school that I had finished from. But it was fifth grade, we were one through 12 then when I finished high school. You were a senior in the 11th grade, you were freshman in eighth grade. Things have changed though. Then the second year, I taught math and social studies. That was my major, social studies. And I was there two years, well, a year and a half.	12:08
Cyrus Victor Jackson	I was drafted into the army. I stayed in the army from February '42 to December '48, almost seven years. I got out of the army. I was discharged from the army, honorably of the rank of Sergeant First Class and of course, the last charge I got the call to the gospel of ministry. And immediately after discharge, I enrolled in J. J. Stark School of Religion in Columbia, South Carolina. I was there for two years. I moved back here in, the family and I moved back in 1950 August. And by time we moved back, all the teaching slots had been filled. But I knew personally some of the principals and I knew the superintendent of education very well. I knew him personally because when I was a student, I was a runner for the school and he knew me from then. And I went to the principals and I don't think I was out of work more than week that every time when sometimes I couldn't go to this and they gave me substitute work.	13:23
Cyrus Victor Jackson	And that summer '50, '51, I went to Southern to certify in elementary education. Of course, September '50, '51. Yeah, September '51 I was assigned to the same school, teaching the same grade, and in the same room. That was after 10 years. And I went back to Southern and shifted two to complete my requirements in summer '52. But while I was in summer school, A. B. Simon retired. And that was Mr. Joseph Kelly, who was now deceased, at what is now [indistinct 00:16:39] Elementary School, was [indistinct 00:16:41] Colored Elementary. And while I was at Southern that summer, they moved him to A. B. Simon School where A. B. Simon had retired from and assigned to me to replace him at what is now Lee Street. Oh, I said five years. They sent me, well, Mr. Kelly got out the system.	15:14
Cyrus Victor Jackson	They sent me back to A. B. Simon as principal, and I was right here trying to get out as my second year here. I was trying to, we were getting ready for dedication and they called my house looking for them and my wife told them I was right around, school board office used to be about three blocks. Well, they built to two new high schools. What is now Freshman High was Jonas Henderson Senior High and what is New Iberia Senior High was New Iberia Senior high then. But during integration, they took all of the names from school. They was very vindictive. And I'd say knowing the powers that be, now this is the truth. Say the niggas want integration, but they're going to have integration on our terms.	17:13
Cyrus Victor Jackson	Consequently, they got rid of all of the Black principals, and assigned White principals and made some of the Black principals assistant to some of the Whites. And I was scheduled to go across the street. That was a high school then. I was scheduled, no, where I was scheduled? No, I wasn't scheduled to go across the street. Yeah, I was scheduled to come. I became a junior high. I was scheduled to go across the street as an assistant to young man who might have been 25 or 30 years of my junior. So to make changes so fast until when it got to me, oh no, we can't send him there. We're going to bring him into the office, central office as a visiting teacher, which is supervisor of attendance. And they changed the name of it. I call it child welfare and all that.	18:31
Cyrus Victor Jackson	And because of that assignment, I became a first Black visiting teacher in the Parish. I worked at that for five years. I took a sabbatical. And while I was on sabbatical, that job, that position was discontinued. And I was slated to go back to Jonas Henderson Junior High School, back as principal again. But because of my experiences with the system under the new principals, especially the White principals, we didn't have any Black. And because the schools were integrated, the White principal, White parents would just come into school, just go in the room. And I wasn't going to stand for that. And I knew either I was going to go to jail or the cemetery, one of those places so I chose to get out by seven more years to go. I chose to get out. So I've been out since 1975.	19:45
Cyrus Victor Jackson	Subsequent to that, I applied for a position as social science teacher at Catholic High, which was then an all boys school— Thinking that the disciplinary problems were not as severe as in the public school system, but boy was I mistaken. I stayed there one semester, and I threw in the towels. And since then, I have substituted in the public school. I was sent to for long term sub at one of the elementary schools. And I think there were 31 or 32 teachers and superintendent at that time. Then superintendent and I were pretty close because both of us had been appointed principals for the junior high schools at the same time. And he brother very well. And this principal's going to the hospital. And he called in and he knew that I was at the school. He said, "Well, you tell Rev, I said to take over and you come out of the hospital." I'm just a substitute.	21:36
Cyrus Victor Jackson	And well, that was the end of my career. I have not had, of course, now what else you want to know about my pastoral ship? I was called to the church in the same Fifth Ward, August 1951. In September the 21st, 1951, I was ordained public, ordained to the ministry. I stayed there from '51 to '58. I was pastor in this church in [indistinct 00:24:05] at the same time simultaneously.	23:07
Michele Mitchell	The church out in the Fifth Ward.	24:08
Cyrus Victor Jackson	Fifth Ward.	24:09
Michele Mitchell	What was it called?	24:09
Cyrus Victor Jackson	Mt. Olive Baptist Church in Freetown.	24:10
Michele Mitchell	Oh yeah, right on Chastant Road?	24:13
Cyrus Victor Jackson	Yeah, Chastant Road. And the trouble at that church was up until I left, every pastor there was from out there. If he were not from out there, his relatives were. And in my case, on both sides, on both of my sides, the relatives out there, as a matter of fact, the chairman of the deacon board when I went out there was my daddy's first cousin. The treasurer was my mother's first cousin. And all those who were not related to me, were related to my wife so it made kind of difficult. I came here in '56, July, this Sunday before last marked my 38th year as pastor of this church. I have served as a, I was working as a youngster in this district.	24:23
Cyrus Victor Jackson	I was telling my union six district, as a youngster, I was a member of what we call the BYP, Baptist Young People's Union. Then they changed the name to, let's see, BTU, Baptist Training Union. And when I became an ordained minister, I led that department for our district for a number of years, and then I became the executive secretary. And when I became president, there were only three older persons, and one was younger than I. And the other, that one passed, and another one who is older than I still lives, but he's senile, he doesn't know where he is over time. In consequent, he and I are the oldest survivor in the district.	25:47
Cyrus Victor Jackson	And recently the new president, we were here at the meeting last night, he asked me to serve as the chairperson in writing the history of this association. I hope I got time to write. I served as a car salesman for about three years, the Buick and Pontiac franchise. I was the first Black appointed to Acadiana Regional Airport Authority. And during the days of integration, the mayor appointed the Human Relations Council and I served as his first secretary. Then I moved up to chairman of that group who had alternating chairman. Oh, let me see some other thing. Our nine in the state convention, Baptist State Convention, we have just celebrated the 10th year, 10th anniversary of the Congress of Christian Education for the state. When Dr. T. J. Jimison was, I know him personally.	27:05
Michele Mitchell	You do?	29:05
Cyrus Victor Jackson	Yeah, I know him personally. On first name basis. And he appointed a committee. And when I looked around, I happened to have been the oldest on that committee to set up what is now our Congress of Christian education, which is the largest International Baptist Convention, USA Incorporated. And I now served associate dean to Harry Blake, who is the dean. He's been here several times. When I was installed as president or moderator of the association, he came, he did the installation for us and when I became president, or moderator, in fact, I'm using them interchangeably, moderator of this association.	29:09
Cyrus Victor Jackson	I don't mind saying we had $32 in the treasury. You can write it if you want. And after I'd been in office for a year, three years rather, I organized what you call a committee, a new building fund committee, new building fund committee. And during the five years, we were able to purchase two pieces of property right adjoining the property we had for 42,707 to some dollar. And when I stepped down as president in that moderator, in all that front alone, he had $30,000.	30:14
Michele Mitchell	How did you manage that?	31:18
Cyrus Victor Jackson	Well, I tell you what, when people distrust other people, and if you want to have them prod, what are you? Baptist? Or whatever you.	31:20
Michele Mitchell	Baptist.	31:30
Cyrus Victor Jackson	Baptist. Well, you know what I'm about to say about that. The first thing they say about Baptist, that they're stealing the money, you know that, huh?	31:31
Michele Mitchell	Mm-hmm.	31:42
Cyrus Victor Jackson	And if you notice, I said the new building fund project and I turned it over. It just was, this young woman that I coached, I coached basketball, both boys and girls from one time to another. And there was a young woman who was very aggressive and she was on my team and she got out and started teaching and she and I couldn't see eye to eye for some time. And she was right, but she couldn't understand what I was trying to do. Now she had been with that previous administration, she would've given them. So when I got ready to set up this new building fund project, she was the first name. Her name was the first name I called in a quarterly board meeting. She jumped up. This is what she did. She put her, "You mean me?"	31:43
Cyrus Victor Jackson	I said, "Yeah, I mean you." "You really mean me?" I said, "Yeah, I know you. I taught you and I know who you are and everything. Know your parents." And also she couldn't believe. So after the Benediction Academy, she, "Sorry, she really mean me?" I said, "Sure, Isabelle, I mean you." And she did a bang up job and now they're trying to take it away from her. And she is a stickler when it comes to records. And if she has a belief, you can't shake it. And I'm going to prove for her that where she's going in October, she's running for position on the school board. And if to get her, she's going to shake things up.	32:41
Michele Mitchell	Is this the woman whose, I've seen her name on the signs?	33:31
Cyrus Victor Jackson	Isabella Carlos?	33:34
Michele Mitchell	Uh-huh.	33:35
Cyrus Victor Jackson	That's it. She has a voice. Sounds like she's fussing all the time. But she's not fussing now. Now she and I couldn't see eye to eye for a long time, until one time somebody told her, "You better leave Cyrus alone." And I just used to laugh and she see, "I don't know. I tried everything." Got you angry but you don't— I said, "I don't anger easily." I'm not boasting but I usually know where I'm going and I know how to get there. See, I've been dealing with loud people since I was 24 years old and I know them. And I, during my tenure in office, I established a congress of Christian education. We meet a week the last week in June, and our attendance has run as high as 700 a day. And we in the process now trying to get our teach classes and got it organized and was a young man by the name of Arthur Lee Jones. He's the one who twin. His twin generated upside down.	33:36
Michele Mitchell	Oh yes.	35:01
Cyrus Victor Jackson	He was here last night and I asked him to head this congress of Christian education and he's done a bang up job too. And that's about, I'm enjoying a pretty nice fellowship, and a nice, pretty nice relationship. It doesn't matter, even though I've been here 38 years, there's some rough moments. Just all right, there's some rough moments. And I was telling one of my students, he's a good mechanic. There's a son who was taken care of. I needed to get one of my cars inspected and I needed to get some light bugs and headlights so.	35:02
Cyrus Victor Jackson	Hey. Hey sweetie, come in.	35:54
Donald James	How y'all doing?	35:56
Michele Mitchell	How are you today?	35:56
Donald James	I'm tired.	36:00
Michele Mitchell	Little hot outside.	36:02
Donald James	Ooh lord. Yes, ma'am.	36:03
Cyrus Victor Jackson	You with her? Or you with, what's your name?	36:04
Donald James	Donald James.	36:07
Cyrus Victor Jackson	Huh?	36:07
Donald James	Donald James. I was a Xeno Parker when I was one at A. B. Simon, you talking.	36:08
Cyrus Victor Jackson	You see? Nah, but for who? You looking for somebody sweetie?	36:16
Donald James	No, I come see if you could help me.	36:18
Cyrus Victor Jackson	Let's see. The lady who's in charge of this right here, she's out of town. I'm sorry. Yeah, Thelma Parker.	36:20
Donald James	Yeah?	36:28
Cyrus Victor Jackson	What's your sister's name?	36:29
Donald James	Alma Parker.	36:30
Cyrus Victor Jackson	And your mama passed not too long ago, huh? I'm sorry. She won't be in until Monday, baby. And nothing I can, did you try the service center on the corner?	36:32
Donald James	They say they ain't have no more funds.	36:45
Cyrus Victor Jackson	Yeah well, the person who handles that went on a two weeks vacation. She won't be here until Monday. And I don't know where else I can send any other than that place over there.	36:46
Donald James	Another little baby, that's one of my babies I got.	36:58
Cyrus Victor Jackson	Wait a minute.	37:00
Donald James	Got four grandchildren.	37:03
Cyrus Victor Jackson	Get out of here, girl.	37:04
Donald James	Mother just had another.	37:04
Cyrus Victor Jackson	Oh, Lord!. I'm sorry, I'm sorry. I can't help you Donald. Really, what we usually do, we send them over there because we usually send funds over there to help. Okay, I'm sorry I can't help you sweetie.	37:06
Donald James	Okay.	37:18
Cyrus Victor Jackson	All right baby. I'm glad you made me know who you, you Xeno?	37:19
Donald James	Yeah.	37:23
Cyrus Victor Jackson	Yeah, go ahead. That's all.	37:24
Donald James	See you all.	37:25
Cyrus Victor Jackson	All right sweetie. Bye there. You see, they remember me. I get that all the time. I hate to because sometimes I had to put my car between these.	37:26
Michele Mitchell	You must be called out into the community for things.	37:44
Cyrus Victor Jackson	Well, would you believe I just got a call or got a call yesterday? It's a man, you might have read the paper where this man from [indistinct 00:37:52] was killed in Ozark in Arkansas and they had his funeral tomorrow at 10 o'clock at the big Catholic Church over here. And they want our choir to sing, but our people working at this time and they can't get off. That's the problem. Of course, did call me to speak a lot. I broke the color line first to help perform a marriage ceremony in this big church on St. Peter Catholic Church.	37:44
Michele Mitchell	When did that happen?	38:25
Cyrus Victor Jackson	Oh that, not too long. Well, some years ago, the young man who got married is an MD now in Lafayette. He came up in this church and I was his principal at Lee Street. His mother was on my faculty. In fact, I taught her in high school. And when I went to A. B. Simon, his wife was a student over there at A. B. Simon and both of them went to New Orleans. He went to Tulane and I think she went to Tulane School of Nursing. And they got together and they got married. And when they got married, he's brazen, the fella. Told the priest he'd like to have his pastor come and help us sitting there. I priest. I said, "Who was your spouse?" He said, "Reverend Jackson." Oh yeah, tell Rev. Jackson to come. He wasn't hard.	38:27
Cyrus Victor Jackson	Well, I've been able to do, I don't say too much about it because a lot of time people think that, people think you're trying to boastful but I've been a private person. I don't like to say it too much. One of the young lady made me, reminded me of some things I did during the integration. We had a meeting every, we tried to network with our people, the churches. And that Sunday morning I told my congregation that there are things I can say in my pulpit that a White Baptist preacher you can't say. And I'll keep reminding that the last bastion of defense for Black people is the Black church. Some of them don't believe it. It's hard. It's hard to lead our people. And somebody asked me, how can you smile through it? Well, if the Lord is with you, who can be against you?	39:16
Michele Mitchell	It's true.	40:11
Cyrus Victor Jackson	And I believe vehemently that the Lord has sustained me all these years. When I tell people I be 80 years old, I spoke to the banquet for Jemison, the other one of the speakers. Two weeks ago, be two weeks tomorrow at the Hilton Hotel, Hilton Ballroom in Baton Rouge. We were our annual session. And when I told by the time the next annual session rolls around, I'll be 80 years old, I could hear all over, "Oh, 80 years old?" Say if you don't believe, I'll show you my driver's license.	40:13
Michele Mitchell	Yes.	40:46
Cyrus Victor Jackson	But, well I tell you sister, my Lord has been good to me, that I'm very grateful.	40:48
Michele Mitchell	It sounds like that's the story that you told me about going to Leland. That that's something else. How did you go to, I mean was it?	41:01
Cyrus Victor Jackson	It just was.	41:05
Michele Mitchell	You had to go far when you were little going to school here in New Iberia?	41:11
Cyrus Victor Jackson	No, I didn't. I didn't have to go far. I live in proximity. Very close to A. B. Simon and [indistinct 00:41:22] Elementary and high school, A. B. Simon. Now Leland is out from Baton Rouge. What would happen, my father-in-law, well, he wasn't my father-in-law then. Jonas Henderson Senior was principal at Higher Institute. He went to Leland. A. B. Simon's principal at one time was the only Black male in the system. He went to Leland. And then I spent two years in high school in Lake Charles. I went, moved with my uncle and I went to Second Ward High School.	41:15
Cyrus Victor Jackson	And my principal there was Clifton Reynold who was originally from here. He went to Leland. Most of the people around here went to Howard and Leland. And a lot of us got to, would you believe at one time, out of all the Black schools before integration, all of the principals were from Leland with exception of one, and he was from Straight, which is non Dillard. See, Dillard, Straight, and NOU merged.	41:58
Michele Mitchell	Must be J. B. Henderson.	42:27
Cyrus Victor Jackson	No, J. B. Henderson went to Leland too.	42:29
Michele Mitchell	That's true.	42:31
Cyrus Victor Jackson	J. B. Henderson is the baby son of Jonas Henderson.	42:32
Michele Mitchell	That's true.	42:37
Cyrus Victor Jackson	You took, had a chance to talk with him?	42:39
Michele Mitchell	Yep.	42:40
Cyrus Victor Jackson	Where you met him? At his house?	42:42
Michele Mitchell	Uh-huh.	42:42
Cyrus Victor Jackson	I live on the next block.	42:43
Michele Mitchell	That's true.	42:46
Cyrus Victor Jackson	If I had known it was been by yourself, I would've invited you to the house. My wife mentioned it, but I didn't know. She could have made some carpet or something.	42:47
Michele Mitchell	This is fun, this is nice.	42:57
Cyrus Victor Jackson	And Marla, there are five children in my wife's family, and all of them finished from Leland. All of them finished from Leland except one. And he passed a few weeks, few months ago. And they brought, they cremated his body and brought it back to [indistinct 00:43:26], and I deposited the remains in Freetown. This is Mt. Olive Baptist Church. That's what most of my people are. That's how Leland got to be famous you see.	42:59
Cyrus Victor Jackson	I talked to a young man the other day whose father was in my school at one time, Livingston. And I asked him, he's much taller than his dad, heavier than his dad. I said, "What's your weight?" He said, "210." I said, "You play football." He said he has. He said, "I played for Grambling. I'm a senior at Grambling." And I remembered he was free safety in a Livingston. Brian Livingston, his grandfather on both sides and I came up together. So when he said he played football at Grambling, I said, "I'll tell you." I said, "Well, you tell Coach Rob you saw one of his pulling guards." "You know Coach Rob?" I said, "Sure," and his father's all excited. I said, sure. We all went to school. In fact, I left Leland the year before his father left.	43:35
Michele Mitchell	So what was it like at Leland?	44:25
Cyrus Victor Jackson	Good.	44:26
Michele Mitchell	Yeah?	44:26
Cyrus Victor Jackson	Just like a family. Those people, the people who went to Leland during my day, that was such a close relationship. If I went to Alexandria, I didn't have to worry about a thing at a place to stay and a place to eat. I tell you who was another one of our schoolmates, do you know Gardner C. Taylor?	44:28
Michele Mitchell	Heard of him, oh yes.	44:57
Cyrus Victor Jackson	Now that was my school mate, my teammate too. Concord Baptist session in Brooklyn, New York.	44:57
Michele Mitchell	Oh.	45:03
Cyrus Victor Jackson	Yeah, he's past emeritus. We were together about six weeks ago, I introduced him in [indistinct 00:45:15]. He has credentials two pages long, legal size, and I told him I wasn't going to read all that. I just told him one or two things and I even cracked on him. Told him about. You recording this?	45:04
Michele Mitchell	Oh. Oh my God.	45:32
Cyrus Victor Jackson	No recorder, no, go stop it right then.	45:33
Michele Mitchell	Oh.	45:36

Michele Mitchell	You were in the Army—	0:01
Cyrus Victor Jackson	Six years, nine months and a few days. I tell people seven, round it off seven years. Six years, nine months.	0:03
Michele Mitchell	I guess what I'd like to ask is just a couple of things about maybe going to the National Baptist Convention. Did you do that a lot?	0:20
Cyrus Victor Jackson	Oh, yes. After they integrated the school and I worked in the central office, I worked the way I wanted to work then because the two people who were in there knew me because they were visiting teachers, and they were upset because Mr. Henderson and I were displaced. We were considered the best disciplinarians in the parish among the Blacks. I don't think I sent two children home in all the time I was principal. I know I didn't send a child to the office when I was a classroom teacher. I took care of all that myself.	0:33
Michele Mitchell	When you had baptisms, when you first started out, would that be in the bayou or in the tank?	1:24
Cyrus Victor Jackson	Oh, no. I was baptized in the pool on Week Street. I came out of that other church on Week Street's Mount Calvary. See, I was in Mount Calvary when I went to the Army. I was in Mount Calvary. I came back after I was a licensed minister. I came back and went to Mount Calvary. Then from there I went to Mount Olive. I still have not moved my membership from Mount Olive. I've been here 38 years. I guess I'll have to reunite because that's where I plan for them to put my remains when I go out there, all my people are out there.	1:25
Michele Mitchell	Did you ever hear about the riot that happened out at Freetown growing up?	2:15
Cyrus Victor Jackson	Yeah. I saw some of the brother. The man who lives in the house now is a good friend of mine. We came up together. Did you get out there?	2:19
Michele Mitchell	I went out there. Yes, I did.	2:25
Cyrus Victor Jackson	Did you go to the house?	2:28
Michele Mitchell	Mm-hmm.	2:28
Cyrus Victor Jackson	I talked to the little lady at the house this morning.	2:28
Michele Mitchell	It's a beautiful little church across the way, too.	2:32
Cyrus Victor Jackson	That's the first church I pastored. It wasn't that way when I went there in 1951. They didn't have electricity, and I got it for the whole community.	2:36
Michele Mitchell	Really?	2:49
Cyrus Victor Jackson	Yeah. You saw the bullet holes? My wife's grandfather was killed in it. Her grandfather was killed in that riot.	2:54
Michele Mitchell	It just sounds like the way that they just shot that whole side up.	3:15
Cyrus Victor Jackson	The man who lived and his son Joseph North, Jr. and I came up together. I was blessed in that church. His father blessed me. We call it christening, but I don't like to refer to it. I call it Catholicism Christian and they call it baptism, but I call it— Y'all know all about that history out there?	3:21
Michele Mitchell	I don't know all about it. I just know some about it.	3:58
Cyrus Victor Jackson	Some of it? I know most of it. It takes a long time to tell.	4:02
Michele Mitchell	Do you have a little time to tell it?	4:05
Cyrus Victor Jackson	But what happened, if I can recall it now, the Blacks had assembled there for some reason for something. As it was, I think one Black slipped out and told the Whites where they were. Rather than come out, they just start shooting. Some Whites were killed, too. They just started shooting. Of course, they still refer to that 5th Ward as the Bloody 5th.	4:07
Michele Mitchell	Really?	4:58
Cyrus Victor Jackson	Still referred to it as the Bloody 5th. It's a funny thing on that committee that I was the first Black to be appointed the Killiana Regional Authority. We were going to— The Chairman of the Committee was an ex Army general air pilot. He was a Air Force general and he used to pilot these planes. He told me that they got rid of him and his plane. He had a small four-engine, little single-engine plane was parked out there, and we decided we're going to go to a meeting in Alexandria. The director had gone the day before in one of the little van, so we decided we going to fly over. It wasn't about 25 or 30 minutes flight, not that long, and he was piloting the plane and there were four of us, and when we looked around, all of us were born in the 5th ward. All of us were born in the 5th ward. I know you found out you're from— How long you been in this area?	5:00
Michele Mitchell	Probably a couple weeks.	6:29
Cyrus Victor Jackson	A couple of weeks? You going to find out there a lot of Blacks with the same names as Whites. Have you noticed that?	6:29
Michele Mitchell	Yeah.	6:38
Cyrus Victor Jackson	A lot of names in there, Hampton, and they're related. You got to like— Unless you know the people, if I told it John Dudware and if you didn't know John Dudware, you may think he's a White man, but he would be a Black man. I remember when I was principal at AAB Simons some young students like you're doing now, but they were White students going through the— They had certain areas assigned to them. They would sell magazines. You see? And get so much credit. I don't know. I don't know if they still do it.	6:41
Cyrus Victor Jackson	And I was in my office one day, and one of the young ladies interviewing me just talking with me, but she had taken subscriptions for a magazine, and a little girl came in. She was just as White as any White child. A teacher sent her to me to my office with a lunch report, and when the child walked out, she looked at the child and the child walked out. I never shall forget that girl's name. She name Bernardine. "How are you, Rev?"	7:27
Cyrus Victor Jackson	I said, "Fine, Bernie. How you feeling?" "Yep. Here's the report," and when she walked out, the White young lady said, "You know, Mr. Jackson, I didn't know the schools were integrated in the south." All I told her, I said, "It's hard to tell some of us sometimes. Isn't it?" And I never liked that, and she was a Dudware, and another time I had a Bootie to come to my office, and she was real fair. It was the same incident, and I had a boy in my school by the name of John Bootie, and I got on my PA system. I knew him. From one to eight and I knew him by name at one time. Begin with the fourth grade. This child could have been about the fifth grade. One of the teachers I sent, she has since passed, Conway. She was on another wing.	8:09
Cyrus Victor Jackson	I said, "Ms. Conway, send so-and-so here Send John," whatever Bootie was, send that Bootie, and when he left out of my room, the girl who was just like a White girl, she was a Bootie, and when I sent for the other Bootie, he's about to color my shoes. I said, "I'm going to show you the difference. I'm going to show you two Booties." Oh, we had problems with integration when we integrated, and I don't think I have [indistinct 00:09:54] anymore since that day. When we were forcing their hands, the bank, let's tell us, and there's a section out here we call Grand Mary.	9:19
Michele Mitchell	Oh, yeah.	10:09
Cyrus Victor Jackson	You heard about that?	10:10
Michele Mitchell	I have heard about that.	10:10
Cyrus Victor Jackson	Yeah. Well, Grand Mary's, of course, they're different now. Grand Mary's a section. If you were not of a certain color, you couldn't go there. You couldn't go there, and they were all intermarried and intermingled with each other, and consequently, you had a few weak ones in there, retarded ones in there, and they went out in the country. Some of them went out there and they got a few of those mulattoes, trained them, and put them on as cashiers. Well, saying if we thought that we were going to accept that, and I don't believe I cursed, either. I cussing so much and told them, you can't tell whether they're White or Black. I said, "Dammit, we want like me on that front line, like me so they don't have to make any mistakes like you and me," and they did it. That was interesting. It was interesting.	10:12
Cyrus Victor Jackson	Would you believe I didn't receive one threat from a White person? A lot of my threats came from my Black people. Would you believe that these dumb people— You put this on record, if you want, on the tape. Put this on tape. You going to put it on? Oh, you been taping all this?	11:28
Michele Mitchell	No. We won't part of it.	11:55
Cyrus Victor Jackson	Huh?	11:55
Michele Mitchell	We're only taping the part from when you told me about the Army.	11:57
Cyrus Victor Jackson	All right. Now, you tape that. You screen tape now?	11:59
Michele Mitchell	Mm-hmm.	12:03
Cyrus Victor Jackson	All right. When it really first started, it started having a problem with integration. The Mayor came to see me, and he wanted my support, and the only thing I told him, "I'll support you if you give employment to Black people. At that time they had one Black man employed and he was at the sewer plant. I knew him because he was a member of the church out in the country, Willie Human. So he said, "Reverend, I promise you I'll go give employment to some Blacks," and all of the garbage collections collectors were White, and that morning when he hired two Blacks, and it so happened the Black he hired was my wife's first cousin and the other Black he hired was my wife's first cousin's husband, so talk about crazy. Some old, crazy cracker got a gun and pulled him off of the truck, pulled him off the garbage truck and I was in bed. It was a Saturday morning.	12:03
Cyrus Victor Jackson	I know what I was looking at TV or something. I still hadn't dressed, and boy they called me, and I went up to the courthouse. It was on Main Street and people were, "Oh." I mean, talk about furious. Stop everything. Stop the whole works. He used to pick up garbage on the Saturdays, and I went in there. When I walked in, they were trying to calm him down. When I walked in, the Mayor saw me and he said, "Reverend Jackson, come up here," so I stood up and I told him, see after his promise, and he's fulfilling his promise, even though this was the garbage truck. You know why they took those Black men off of there? Because that was a White man's job, collecting garbage. When I found that out, I said, "Come on." I said, "I'm going to take these men back."	13:33
Cyrus Victor Jackson	Main Street was a two-way street, and I couldn't. It was so it crowded, I couldn't find a parking space close to the courthouse. I left my car right in the middle of the street, right in front of the courthouse, and walked in, left the keys in it and everything. I mean, talk about upset, and the rookie policeman came up to pick up to go move. Oh, he's going to ticket the car, so one of the older policemen who knew me knew my car. "Oh, no. Don't put a ticket. You find a place to park. That Reverend Jackson's car," and I went and I said, "Now I'm going to take those men back to the barn," and stopped everything, and I told the Chief of Police and the Mayor. "I want a motorcycle cop trailing that truck that these two men are on," and even the barn, everything had stopped. The whole shebang had stopped, so I drove right into the barn.	14:27
Cyrus Victor Jackson	Some of them didn't like it, with those two men with me, and the police on motorcycles. They're waiting for me when I got there, and I drove in a place where private cars wasn't supposed to have gone, but I was there, and they followed those men, and after that it was a pretty easy transition. Then I got a letter from the man who perpetrated the thing apologizing. He was White and put my life on the line for that. Don't you know some of my people called me Uncle Tom? What changed their ideas about me? A lot of things I couldn't come out and tell them, but I could work behind the scenes sometimes better. You see, I found it easier to work with a small group than it is to work with a big group.	15:31
Michele Mitchell	Oh, yeah.	16:25
Cyrus Victor Jackson	Small, you can manipulate. It's more wielding, so I said— and right after that, that's when the Mayor appointed this committee, Human Relations Council, and don't you know people calling me Uncle Tom, and then I got on there. Soon as I was in Baton Rouge when they handed down the— I think it was in '34 when they handed down that. '40 what? The Supreme Court when it did away with segregation.	16:26
Michele Mitchell	'54?	17:05
Cyrus Victor Jackson	54, that's right. That was the year before I was at New York. I was at New York. I was down in Times Square. If you've been to New York the Times Square building, you know the [indistinct 00:17:15] the light that would flash into the air, but I was there. I haven't have been there now.	17:06
Michele Mitchell	Wow.	17:20
Cyrus Victor Jackson	So I told them, I said when I came back, I said, "Wait a minute," and soon as they got running here, running there. They can't keep us out of these places. You know what these crackers were doing, these White folks did? Just crudely written sign, White only, and some of these Blacks wanted to go there, and so I—	17:21
Michele Mitchell	When you came back here?	17:42
Cyrus Victor Jackson	Oh, yeah. I mean, when they decided they were going to get rid of the place, integrate the places, overnight they're talking about— and some of these Blacks will want to run in those places get in trouble, and don't you know? I said, "Now, wait a minute." I said, "It is true that you"— I said, "You can't legislate morals." I said, "It's going to take time." I was in a meeting, I said something like to that effect, "It's going to take time to get this thing over. A thing that been going on for hundreds of years, you can't change it overnight." You know what they started calling me? Uncle Tom and I got on the air and told them. "This is a gradual process. You just can't change things overnight." Well, they started calling me Uncle Tom. Oh, sometimes I'd pass down the street. "Hey, Uncle Tom," and I'd just wave at them.	17:45
Cyrus Victor Jackson	Some of my Black people. Yeah, they're my Black people, so they were invited. I didn't know they were invited to come to a meeting of the Human Relations Council. We were like the steering committee to integrate a place. We'd work in teams, and on my team there are two Catholics and a Baptists, a Catholic priest, who's White, and one of his parishioners Black, and I was, and they came to me and at that meeting. They came. They were hopping and going. At that meeting they came, so I'm not— That was my turn as chairperson, and our superintendent and assistant superintendent of education were there. I was still in the system, and when I got through blistering them, what they wanted to do, I got through blistering them. We ain't going up with that. There were two of them members from the active NAACP. They came, and you know what happened?	18:39
Cyrus Victor Jackson	They went out and said, "Child, we had that man pegged wrong all the time. See, he didn't know we would come to this meeting, and when the issue came up, he was presided. He got out of that, turned it over to somebody else. Then he did the talking." And right now, if you call me Uncle Tom, you almost have a fight for some of these fellows because they had me miss— You see, a lot of times I couldn't say anything, but I was working behind the scene. One young lady, they put a young lady in jail. I know she's called so they had a warrant on her husband and they couldn't even get out jail, caught them right down here, too. It's private. She didn't cut it off like this other lady, and the mama came to me crying and said she tried everything, and one of my uncles, my great uncle told her, he was an old man, "Oh, you"—	19:48
Cyrus Victor Jackson	I was scared to do anything. You know what I did? I didn't even go to the courthouse. I just called the DA's office and I told her, "Now you go up and get your child." And she went up and she got her child, and passed right by who was her uncle and my great-uncle. Just some of my own people telling. Well, [indistinct 00:21:21]. You see, a lot of times they circumvent me. You see, they got a lot of people when we were in the trenches, they were running. Many times, some of them you might have contacted. You see, if we had a meeting, like we had to integrate a place like today or tomorrow, they'd make it convenient to go out of town, and they were well educated, baby, and you know what we got the best results from? Some of these fellows who had not finished high school. You know what some of them were doing?	20:54
Cyrus Victor Jackson	They were janitors that place, but they stood up. Some of them were butlers at hospital, but they stood up. Right now, a lot of them don't trust me too much, but it doesn't really bother me. I've had recently, I was called to meeting at Southern University talking my closing the schools. I know you heard it about them trying.	21:57
Michele Mitchell	Oh, yeah.	22:28
Cyrus Victor Jackson	Delores Spikes called me. That was represented from this area, and I went. I talked. We were in a meeting, so I came back to school, went back together Sunday morning and I told my congregation, "You'll be the first one to hear it, but this is what's happening," and I went to tell them what was happening my results of the meeting before, and don't you know that same afternoon, that same morning, I should say the same morning, somebody, a man and his wife left and went joined another church in the country talking about they weren't getting the Word.	22:31
Cyrus Victor Jackson	The only thing I was talking about this morning was education, so when I got back the next Sunday, I told them. I said, "I was a classroom teacher, and I was concerned about that whole child, and just like I was concerned about that whole child, I'm concerned about the whole of you. I may be able to enjoy some things, but how about the other people?"	23:07
Cyrus Victor Jackson	I had an account at [indistinct 00:23:39] Dallas, the largest store here in Liberia. [indistinct 00:23:43] Dallas. I know you heard of [indistinct 00:23:44] Dallas, and I wanted to charge something, and my bill must have been about three or $400, and somebody in the office said, "He can't charge anything because he's over the limit," so I didn't do it. I went back home, got my checkbook, went back to one of the cashiers and I said, "Call and find out with my bill," and I wrote, paid them out in full, and I didn't go back to that store for months.	23:36
Cyrus Victor Jackson	The man who owned it was living then, and he kept worrying about the young man who was a part-time saleswoman that was on my faculty. Of course, I had been working there a long time, Felton Bruce, and he kept worrying Felton about me, so Felton called me when he said, "Rev. I'm just worried to death about you." He hadn't seen him in a long time.	24:22
Cyrus Victor Jackson	So I said, "I tell you what. You tell him to look at the record and see if I owe him anything, and if I'm [indistinct 00:24:52] I will come and pay." So I told him what happened. I didn't have to tell the man. So I told him, I said, "Somebody in that office said I was over my limits," and I said, "I couldn't understand it. I've been dealing there for years," and I said, "I paid it out," and they kept telling Bruce. He call me himself, begged me to come, so I went back and I reopened my account. I got my bill the other day because I kind of shocked when my baby daughter and her fiance is he's a first year mortuary science, and I tried to help them along. So I sent him over there, bought him a suit. I believe I gave 200 and something dollars, and my daughter got her some things.	24:46
Cyrus Victor Jackson	I just sent anybody there if it's my children together. That's the way I'm with my children. Whatever I have, they can have it, and when I looked at the— I picked up my bill the other day. The things I had bought, and what they had bought, and it ran about $1,100, but you know what happened? The man's daughter manages it now, and he's passed it on to her. She knew what had happened, and they went in there and I understand they ate those people. "I don't care what Reverend Jackson wants to charge. You let him have what he wants. Don't you question him."	25:50
Michele Mitchell	You was just telling me about— If you could back up and tell me what you told me about things being painted—	26:35
Cyrus Victor Jackson	Oh, yes. Well, I've known places. There were certain spots, certain places, business places in town where you and some of them had for Colored waiting room, Colored restroom, in doctor's office, Colored waiting room, White waiting room, and to make sure that you knew what it meant, a drinking fountain was painted Black, which meant that that was for Black people, and the fountain ordinarily comes a White. It's already White. He went to cafes. They serve you out of a window, side window. Now, you didn't experience that, but I'm telling what that experience.	26:42
Michele Mitchell	I never have. I don't know what it's like.	27:51
Cyrus Victor Jackson	If you rode the bus, you had to ride in the back. Greyhound bus and street buses ride in the back. Even some of these stores, certain things they wouldn't show to Black people, and I've known some of these wives were so simple, and they would go to these stores and they would ask the storekeeper. Back in those days when I was a youngster, they didn't have too many ready-made clothes that them people made their own clothes, and some of these people were so backwards they would even go to the storekeepers and ask them to show me some material that Colored people don't buy, and they would put it in French, [indistinct 00:29:06].	27:55
Cyrus Victor Jackson	This was this; show me something that the niggers do not wear— material that the niggers do not wear, and one fellow got fed up with it. You know what he did? He went and got some mattress ticking. People used to make their own mattress and everything, mattress ticking. I'd be thinking a ticking, and he brought it to her.	29:13
Cyrus Victor Jackson	He said, "[foreign language 00:29:49]." And you know what he told her? This is something that niggers do not wear. So that means that they wear everything else at you wear. Would you believe sometimes you'd go to buy a car they wouldn't want to show you a new car? It happened to me. I went to buy a car, and incidentally, it was going to be the first new car I would buy, and the fellow brought me to the used car lot, and back in those days we used call it secondhand car. And there was a brand new car in the show window, and I just walk around with him. I said, "How about the one in the show window?" He was shocked. When he got ready he says, "What you got on him?" And then we went on in the office and I bought the one that was in the show window. It was a new one.	29:41
Cyrus Victor Jackson	You don't know what we went through. Policemen would come to you and ask you, "Do you know any so and so?" "No. I don't know so and so." "Nigger, you sure you're telling me the truth?" Listen, baby. When I was in the Army— See, when I went in the Army, the Army was segregated. Quartermaster, QMC, quartermaster corps, and in parenthesis they put CLD, Colored. I was the company clerk. Did all of the company's worked for my company and [indistinct 00:32:03] headquarters, and I was with Quartermaster QMC Corps, Quartermaster Corps, CLD. Well, I was their clerk. You see? And many times at requisition during the time of war, they were requisition for so many men to go to so many camps, so many places. They called them cadre men to open new camps to go to new camps, and the man who was in charge was a colonel, a full colonel, White, and he'd come in person and say, "We have a requisition for so many men for certain grades."	31:04
Cyrus Victor Jackson	If you didn't have that grade, you'd make them certain grades, and the sergeant major would ask, "Why the colors?" You know what he said? No, niggers. I'm telling what I heard with my own two ears, and then the others were a little chagrin, and they'd look around and they knew they wanted two of us in there. Those are the things I had to go through, and it was painful. Talk about painful, the first year I worked, we didn't have buses. Buses came along in 1946. I never had the chance of riding a bus to school. The children, the Whites and Blacks was those who could walk. White children walked to school, too, but they weren't too far from school. Blacks lived across each other; had a lot of Blacks living in this downtown area would bypass this school and another school coming to where AB Simon is.	32:51
Cyrus Victor Jackson	That used be a Presbyterian school, and vice versa; Whites coming through coming to this school, and many times they'd meet each other, and sometimes they'd get in a squabble or fight, and you know what the Whites would do? They would go to the superintendent, and tell him that those nigger children go to that nigger school beat our children, had to fight with our children. One of the sisters, they got so mad. I mean, they got so tired of those White children brushing them off, so they started fighting them and pushing them over in the ditch, and you know what the superintendent would do? He would come to the school red as a [indistinct 00:35:06] fish and say to the principal, in the presence of teachers, "If we don't stop you niggers, you going think you much as White folk."	34:10
Cyrus Victor Jackson	I mean, the superintendent was saying that to the principal and some of the teachers, "If we don't stop you niggers, you going think you much as White folks." I remember once I was at a baseball game on Sunday afternoon and a policeman came by and told us to move back, and because we didn't move back too fast, he actually hit me with his billy. Nothing I could do about it; hit me with his billy and my mother begged me not to say anything because she knew how my daddy was. Those are some of the things I had to go through. Ride down the street calling you a nigger. Then after I taught school. I was a school teacher. In fact, I was principal down at Lee Street. I had come home and I'd washed my car. I used to buy nothing but black cars and I had a black car, and that afternoon I cleaned it up well.	35:19
Cyrus Victor Jackson	I went up to the post office. I had some mail to get at the post office, and I made it to the post office and put the mail in, and I had my children with me, Cyrene and Sheryl were small children, and they used to like to ride with us coming down the street, and a bunch of White boys standing in front of the drugstore, and there were two of them that I knew. Two of them had come up together, and the others didn't know him, the first time [indistinct 00:37:14]. The red light stopped. Look at that nigger. He shining just like that car. I didn't say a word. I went on home. Three days later I had some mail to put in the post office. I went back and put it in the post office, and I stopped up there. The same bunch was there, and he said, "Look at nigger. He's shining just like that car."	36:43
Cyrus Victor Jackson	I rolled the glass down. I said, "You know one thing? Your paw was a nigger. If you don't believe it, you go back home and ask your mom, and I didn't want my children to be bothered with it. I brought my children home. I parked until one of the them was try to come in, the supposedly going to come jump me in the car. One of them that knew me pulled him back. He said, "Man don't you bother him." I brought my children home. I came back out the street, parked my car a block away, got out of my car and walked right past them. I was just waiting for them to do me something. I was going eat them up. That's how mad I was. Those are the things you have to go through. Nigger, don't you lie to me. Do you know we had some police on the force couldn't read nor write? When I came up, one was so dumb. I never shared his name. Forget his name. We used to call him Mimi Corgan.	37:47
Cyrus Victor Jackson	He was so dumb, Michelle, until he caught some people, stopped some Black people passing through— You see Main Street was the main thoroughfare. We didn't have these four lanes, Main Street. What is now 180 was nothing but Highway 90, and when you're traveling you go through all those little towns. The old Spanish trail, those were all those little towns. You didn't have a bypass like you have now, and Mimi Corgan couldn't read nor write, was it Mimi Cogan or Hayes? I don't know which one of them, but it was one of them stopped some Black people. And instead of his getting the information, the driver's license, and the information driver's license, license on the car, he asked them to write it. You know what they did? They wrote the license number of the patrol wagon. We had a patrol wagon, and then [indistinct 00:39:59] said, "Where in the hell did you get this dumb police? He can't read nor write," and gave it to him.	38:52
Cyrus Victor Jackson	Then went on by. Those were the things we had to do. I remember I was taking asks for something here. We were getting ready to do something here, and I walked into a place of business. The man knew me, but some of his— There were youngsters, too, that didn't know me, and they came in. I was dressed casually, and he come in there to make fun of me, but I could tell he was doing something because he was behind me, and the man was trying to tell him, and couldn't. The man was between a hard place and a rock. He didn't know what to do, so I found out later he told him, he said, "Now you laughing at that man." Somebody else told me later, "but that man is educated. He's very intelligent, and look what you doing out here. You doing common labor," and that's the type of thing we had to do.	40:05
Cyrus Victor Jackson	When I first came out of school. I went to Abbeville, which is Vermilion Parish to get to see the superintendent for a job, and it was on a Monday morning. Now, I didn't have transportation, but a friend of mine who used to collect insurance in that area, and I caught a ride with him, and I went into the superintendent's office, talked with him, told him I had my degrees and everything, so I came out of the office and went another way, and evidently he went out the back way, and we got to some White men who were dressed on the street with overalls. They saw me. They saw me coming and they saw Mr. Williams, who was a White man, who was superintendent, "Mr. Williams, I saw a nigger all dressed up in your office."	41:06
Cyrus Victor Jackson	And don't you know, and the man was embarrassed because he said, "Well, that's Professor Jackson. He's looking for job. We looking for a teaching job," but you see he was intelligent. He knew I was intelligent, but they were ignorant. Another time I went in a place, I don't know where I went. I went somewhere. I went in a store somewhere, and I'm very proud. Step light going about my business. They was giggling and going, "Look at that nigger. Look how at he dressed up," and they had on old common clothes. Another time I was teaching then. I was going from uptown to Main Street. We used to do a lot of walking then, and I got to the corner. When we got to the corner, it was during grinding season or the harvesting season for the cane, and we used harvest the cane with a cane knife, and you'd load it by hand, but now they got cane cutters.	42:05
Cyrus Victor Jackson	Two or three men can handle it, but it wasn't that in my day. And they needed people to work on the farm, and some of these fellows were hanging around on the corner, didn't want to go to work. You know what they were doing? Going and picking them up, calling them vagabonds. They're the vaggers, and they're going to put them in jail or they either go to work because some of these Black fellows when farmers would come looking for people to go to work. Said, "Where your sugar cane?" To him, well, he'd show them where. He was serious about it, and they would tell him, "I tell you what. If you bring your cane here on the corner, we'll cut it," and it so happened one Saturday morning, they were on the corner of Hopkins and Persian, which was Madison Street then, Hopkins and Persian loading them up because they were, and then they saw me and I was coming down the street dressed, and they came when they saw me.	43:21
Cyrus Victor Jackson	So what happened that the man who owned the store was Mr. George Bumgartner, and when he saw me, they was going to go put me in because I was dressed up and going to put me in that. He said, "Don't bother him. He's a teacher." Yeah, those are the things we had to endure.	44:22
Michele Mitchell	They're going through the streets, just picking up people?	44:43
Cyrus Victor Jackson	You know what I'm telling? Because they wouldn't go to work. Call them vaggers, and another time I said something else. I was trying to think of something that's happened to me. It is sad. It's sad. Now, those are the things I had to go through, and don't look halfway decent. They didn't care. See, they only stopped that mess after integration. They started calling you Mr. and Ms. An old man by the name of Jonas Henderson, he's dead now. JB, Jonas Henderson, Sr. He had a son named Jonas and his baby son named JB, John Barry, and it was a boarding institute, a high institute, right where the courthouse is, and they had a farm. He had a farm somewhere out in the country and it was a boarding school, and then he bought—	44:46

Item Info

Title:

Cyrus Jackson interview recording, 1994 August 10

Date:

August 10, 1994

Creator:

Jackson, Cyrus Victor

Contributor:

Mitchell, Michele

Description:

Name: Cyrus Victor Jackson; Date of birth: 1915-01-25; Place of birth: Iberia Parish, LA; Occupation(s): principal; minister; educator; Residence: New Iberia, LA
Informant ID: 540; Interviewed by: Michelle Mitchell.

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English

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Behind the Veil

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Behind the Veil: Documenting African American Life in the Jim Crow South interviews, photographs, and project records, circa 1864-2011, bulk 1990-2004

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The David M. Rubenstein Rare Book and Manuscript Library acquired the Records of the Behind the Veil Oral History Project from the Duke University Center for Documentary Studies in 1997, 1998, 2000, and 2002.

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Copyright for content created by the Behind the Veil project is held by Duke University and made available to the public using a Creative Commons Attribution / Non-commercial (CC-BY-NC) license.

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RL00170-CS-1099
72578c6a-7fe7-4f25-8055-a7076d228d5b
behindtheveil
0d4a5ee5-01f6-4f37-8eaf-bdb2bcea7c3f
ark:/87924/r4959qh3v
0d4a5ee5-01f6-4f37-8eaf-bdb2bcea7c3f

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Cyrus Jackson interview recording, 1994 August 10

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1. Cyrus Jackson administrative file, 1994

John Hope Franklin Research Center

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John Hope Franklin Research Center

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