RL00170-CS-0476_02 / Nell Oxner interview recording, 1993 June 09 / Duke Digital Repository

Nell Simmons Oxner

— Went to this Methodist church and she played for this church.

0:01

Sonya Ramsey

Was it a big difference between the church in New York or in Washington versus Savannah?

0:04

Nell Simmons Oxner

No. No, I didn't find any difference. I really didn't.

0:09

Sonya Ramsey

Okay. I guess we'll go on to Washington. You said you heard Sarah Vaughan. What was that experience like?

0:13

Nell Simmons Oxner

That was, I'm telling you something. She was singing and it was in the club downstairs, so we got to go downstairs in this club to hear Sarah. And it was beautiful. She was a young person then too, very young, and she didn't have all the slurs and exaggerations and her singing like she acquired in later years. I liked it better then. It was very, very good.

0:19

Nell Simmons Oxner

And that reminds me too, I heard Billy Eckstine, my sister took me to— What was the name of that theater, that someplace in New York City once Billy Eckstine was there. And I heard him sing his first song, Jelly Jelly, and Without A Song, and that's my favorite of old things because the last song I played for that brother before he passed, before he'd been overseas and died, Danny Boy. And Billy Eckstine died, and another one he sang, and he was a youngster too, singing on the stage. I forgot the name of that theater. Very popular and everybody knows about it.

0:41

Sonya Ramsey

Lincoln, was it the Howard Theater?

1:25

Nell Simmons Oxner

No, no, not the Howard Theater. Oh no. But I went to the Howard Theater once or twice to see some of those big bands. Yes, I did get to see a few big bands. It was Jimmy Lunceford and— you wouldn't know those. Your grandparents would know them. And some other pop of the band leaders at that particular time. Cootie Williams and what's that other one? Some other ones, but I've heard a few when they would come to town and go to the Howard Theater, we would try to go. Some of the girls in the dormitory would get together and go.

1:27

Sonya Ramsey

So you said they were from different parts of the—

2:07

Nell Simmons Oxner

Yes, country.

2:10

Sonya Ramsey

So how did you make friends with— What kind of friends did you have? Did you have different friends?

2:12

Nell Simmons Oxner

Yeah, very good friends. And even the ones I met in my office where we work at department, very good. And we would even visit sometimes on Sunday afternoons, go to one another's house and talk socialize or make plan to go to a movie together or something like that in Washington.

2:16

Sonya Ramsey

When you worked for the census bureau, did you work among Whites?

2:35

Nell Simmons Oxner

Yes. Yes. It was mixed.

2:36

Sonya Ramsey

What was that experience like?

2:38

Nell Simmons Oxner

That was a good experience too. Very—

2:39

Sonya Ramsey

Did you feel any awkwardness?

2:44

Nell Simmons Oxner

No, I didn't.

2:46

Sonya Ramsey

Where did you get your— Because usually being in segregated environments, I would feel kind of funny all of the sudden.

2:46

Nell Simmons Oxner

I don't know, but it's something about me. I made the adjustment beautifully. It was just wonderful. I didn't have any problems at all. I worked well with the Whites. They'd be here and I'd be here and we'd get along, socialize, talking and it was just not a problem with me. It's just like another person.

2:50

Sonya Ramsey

Did you socialize outside of work with them?

3:10

Nell Simmons Oxner

Did I do what?

3:13

Sonya Ramsey

Socialize outside of work with them?

3:14

Nell Simmons Oxner

No, I didn't have any outside association with any White friends like that. No, just on the job like that.

3:16

Sonya Ramsey

Did you not want— Why is that? Did you not to?

3:23

Nell Simmons Oxner

I just didn't plan it. Just didn't plan to do that. I guess I just always stayed with my group. No, but I have nothing against them, I'll tell you. No, not at all.

3:26

Sonya Ramsey

So then after working in Washington, you went back and you got married—

3:40

Nell Simmons Oxner

And came here.

3:44

Sonya Ramsey

What was your wedding like?

3:44

Nell Simmons Oxner

Well, we didn't have a big wedding. We decided to go to York, South Carolina. Have you heard of York? And got married there and came back. And it was from then on we were together and living with one another and doing things. And I met two girls at this first school I worked, and they were members of this church that I'm attending now. I had started going to another church, visiting, and they encouraged me to go to Grace AME Zion, my church that I'm attending now, so I went there and joined. And he was Baptist but soon after I joined, he came and joined with me at this African Methodist Episcopals Zion Church, so he's there. We own Brevard Street, that's the church on Brevard Street.

3:47

Nell Simmons Oxner

And I have one social club, and I was in Phi Delta Kappa, but it folded about two years ago. That's a teacher's organization. And then I tutored for 11 years after I retired, but I put that down because my sister got sick in Savannah and we were off and gone. We'd go so often and I'd have to disappoint the people I were tutoring. So after 11 years last summer, I just put it down. I worked with the reading center here and tutored out of the reading center, Charlotte Area Literacy League, and resign while I was on the board. And I was also on the board of directors of the North Carolina Literacy League for three years.

4:37

Sonya Ramsey

I wanted to go back and talk about your first teaching job in Charlotte? What was that like?

5:31

Nell Simmons Oxner

Oh, well you know how it is when first you get on a new job, it seems as if they select— It might not be true, the worst students, and you got that class. That was a kind of tough class that very first year, I remember.

5:36

Sonya Ramsey

And what grade?

5:50

Nell Simmons Oxner

It was third grade. I was supposed to have had second grade. I had third grade I think one year, and then they gave me the grade that I was assigned to at first. But seemingly the need, somebody died right during that summer or something and they wanted somebody in third grade. And it was a tough class, but I worked with it because I stayed on my feet and I paced. I walked the room and I kept them down.

5:53

Sonya Ramsey

How did you discipline them, if you could [indistinct 00:06:18]

6:15

Nell Simmons Oxner

Had a little— you could smack them in the hands a little bit. I didn't do much whipping. You always had one or two little naughty ones and they'd try your patience, but I worked with it and let it down somehow. But I think that was the roughest class. I think that very first class.

6:18

Sonya Ramsey

How big is the [indistinct 00:06:37]?

6:35

Nell Simmons Oxner

It was a very large school. It's torn down now. The aquatic center here is exactly in the spot where I worked when I first came to Charlotte.

6:37

Sonya Ramsey

What was the name of the school?

6:46

Nell Simmons Oxner

Myers Street Elementary School. Myers Street.

6:48

Sonya Ramsey

And you taught— How long did— Did you get along well— Did you not get along well with the other teachers?

6:52

Nell Simmons Oxner

Yes, I did. Yes, I certainly did. And had a nice principal, got along well with the principal, enjoyed him very well. Then when they integrated, they sent us to First Ward, and that was over on Eighth Street in Charlotte over there at Eighth Street. They were just beginning integration. They had White teachers but no student at that time. They had some White teachers and Black teachers, but all the students were Black. And I worked there two years, and then they started full bloom integration with teachers and the students, and I was sent to Rama Road Elementary School. That's kind of what they call a blue stork and a white stork or whatever section way out on the other side of town.

6:57

Nell Simmons Oxner

And it was told that one lady who was working with us, one White who was working with us at this school that I was transferred to when I left the all Black school, we had some Whites there, and they said this particular lady had told somebody to pull me, the principal, I was suggested to be one of the teachers from this First Ward to go to this school. And I think there were three of us and we went out. It was called Rama Road. It's still existing. It's out there now. Rama Road Elementary School.

7:49

Sonya Ramsey

Why do you think they selected you as one of the teachers?

8:27

Nell Simmons Oxner

I think this lady liked me, unlike my person there. Maybe she figured maybe I could get along with the people there or something. I will believe that because I've seen her walking by and looking and talking and seeing a few things and all that sort of thing, and I said—

8:30

Sonya Ramsey

What did you think about integration?

8:45

Nell Simmons Oxner

I didn't mind it at all. I got along fine. We had a lady at first, she stayed one year and then her father got sick, this White woman, and she had to go. And then my husband was working at junior high school and this principal asked to transfer to an elementary school. So when he came right to the school where I was and he said, "Well I feel right at home because I'm working with one of my ex teacher's wives," and said "Only I'm working with the pretty one too". He's a Yankee, he was from Pennsylvania originally, and we got along fine. People said he was sometime in peculiar and he'd walk right down the hall, so I heard him say and wouldn't say anything, but he always talked to me. He would come and make a visit and chat in my room, Mr. Lee. He's here in Charlotte now. He's retired. He told me to wait on him, but I wouldn't, he came out two years after I came out.

8:47

Nell Simmons Oxner

And I think we had a beautiful relationship and he invited us to his house several times. The faculty members went to his house and all that other stuff, and invited us to his house since then, but we haven't been. I've met him I think once or twice since I retired in the mall and talked with him and his wife. And I couldn't find out— I don't think that he was, if he was prejudiced, it was deeply rooted. I didn't get it. Some people said, oh yes he was, but I didn't see it. To me he was fair and square. And I remember one year I had a lot of boys and he came, he said, "Nell, you got so many boys that just looks like we have a lot of boys this year." Said, "Do you want me to kick some of these little men out and get some girls for you?" And I said, "No, I think I can handle it, I'll handle it." In fact, I like boys. I can teach boys. It didn't make any difference.

9:38

Sonya Ramsey

Did you always teach elementary school?

10:36

Nell Simmons Oxner

Well, the very first job in Georgia was a high school home ec. Then from then, North Carolina, it was all elementary. And I took those boys, I had about 15, and about four or five girls. But he said I did an excellent job with them. They didn't bother me. I got along fine with them.

10:38

Nell Simmons Oxner

And so we had a good relationship. In fact, he would call on me to do things and go last minute to go to different— Report for different little groups on certain little meetings that somebody refused to go or didn't want to go or something like that. Sometimes he'd take me out, send somebody to carry me or something like that. And I got along just fine.

10:59

Sonya Ramsey

Why do you think— What aspects of your personality helped you be so agreeable and things like that?

11:20

Nell Simmons Oxner

I think I'm just a cooperative person and I know how to get along and adjust in any situation. I believe that about myself, that I could talk to the highest and the lowest and get along. I know something to say to you, I can talk to you and feel comfortable with you. And it probably came from my upbringing. I had a strong mother who taught us how to get along with one another, and then I was the second oldest girl and the third oldest child and had these siblings under me. And I think all that helped with the adjustment. I can adjust, I just feel anywhere, feel comfortable with people. Any race, it doesn't matter. If you don't insult me or hit me or knock me, I can get along with you, I think.

11:27

Sonya Ramsey

What kind of subjects did you, as a teacher and as a student when you were young, did you learn any Black history or anything like that?

12:15

Nell Simmons Oxner

Just once in a while they would bring in something. See, because the histories, those days when we came along in church, they didn't have Black histories. But they'd mention one or two outstanding person during the Black history time, during the Black history month, and that's about all. All the other information you, you'd get that later. You'd get that in college and through your own reading.

12:24

Sonya Ramsey

While you were teaching, you taught elementary school. What relationship did you have with the children's parents?

12:51

Nell Simmons Oxner

Back then, they didn't come out too often. Very seldom you could get them to attend properly. They didn't come. Just about— oh, you'd have about four or five out of a class of 30 something. They didn't interested, seemingly. They figured that was your job and they just sent them and just get them out of their way and you'd do everything for them. And then when it's time for a PTA to come to discuss things, they weren't there. And especially the ones you wanted to see, say you want to talk about maybe a problem, a discipline problem or a learning problem or something. You didn't see them.

12:58

Nell Simmons Oxner

You could go to their homes and we used to do that a lot then. At the beginning, the principal ask us to go visit homes and we'd be walking on foot all the way around in a section called Brooklyn here where we first lived, my husband and I, and going to these homes. Sometimes you could get in, sometimes you couldn't. They would see you coming and wouldn't let you in because they didn't want to talk to you. And then sometimes you would see them, you'd ask them to come out, but very seldom. There's usually a teacher's meeting, I always call PTA meeting, teachers meeting, a few parents, but they didn't do very well with that.

13:32

Nell Simmons Oxner

And I know when I went out to Rama Road, this White and Black school was all mixed up. They didn't come out there too well. I had one Black who came to my class. He was in— Let see where did he work? Mr. Lewis, he works with the Equal Employment Office here in Charlotte right now. He had his little girl in my room and he was a darling parent. He'd come to talk even when it wasn't PTA. I think he's still working. I don't think he's retired and the others didn't come.

14:09

Nell Simmons Oxner

So Mr. Lee, the principal said, I know what I'll do. I'll get the school bus and send— The Black children and came out of a place called Earle Village here, that section over there. I'm going to send the bus down there on PTA night and let them know ahead of time and bring them in so they can come and talk with the teachers about the children. And so he did that. And guess who came on the buses? Little teenagers wanting a ride come to town. And they'd go to the school and run up and down the hall and run outside and play and have a good time. I just hate to say that, but that's what they did. And running the room and look around and just scattered around. They didn't come. So he did that several times and he said, well, there's no need. If they're not going to come, then you know why— We don't need the children to come. They're home. We want the parents.

14:40

Sonya Ramsey

Did you actually— The school actually taught in an integrated school. Did you visit the White people's homes?

15:34

Nell Simmons Oxner

Yes, I have, and I've had been invited to dinner and everything. Girl, I'll tell you, Dr. Albergotti, he had a practice here in Charlotte, but I think he went with either, he's with Duke Powell or Southern Bell or something now. And his little son invited me and I went, my husband took me out there— It's so far, I can't remember where it was now. But anyway, we went out there to his house, a little boy named John Albergotti, and this mother, she said, "I'm so glad. That that's all I hear. John is always talking about you". They had seven children, a doctor and his wife, she was a nurse. He said, I met my wife in Pennsylvania when I was doing my practice, my intern work up there, and brought herself. So she was telling me, Now I don't know how to fry chicken like these southerners, Ms. Oxner. She said, but I got fried chicken for you and I got all kind of other good vegetables and stuff and you're going to have a good time.

15:40

Nell Simmons Oxner

And so she had this long table there and all the little children, her little teenage children, the other ones were there waiting to welcome me and everything. And so she got the food ready, she did it herself she said, and she brought the food and put it on the table. And then I got to the table and little John was right there and he got right up under my arm, a little secretary chair. And they're so dear and loving. They get up on your feet, they get in your face, they give you their coals and cough, and when they going kiss you when they're going home right in your mouth.

16:37

Nell Simmons Oxner

And it was darling, and he had his seat right by his teacher and he's sitting right by me so close. We had a good dinner and we sat and had a ball talking in the living room afterwards. And then when it was time and Dr. Albergotti said, "Now Ms. Oxner, when you're ready to go, I'll take you". And one of the little teenage boy wanted to drive, goes "I want to take Ms. Oxner home." And the doctor said, "No you don't. I got to go to the hospital over the Charlotte Memorial Hospital, so I'm going to take her." They want to get away in the car.

17:07

Nell Simmons Oxner

Oh, it's the funniest thing. So then when we got in the car and Dr. Albergotti said, "You know what," said, "I was brought up near Grandin Road over there". Said "My mother taught at Central," you know where the Y is over there on Morehead Street. He said, "Well, she taught, there was a high school over there and my mother taught over there." And I went to Urban Avenue. My husband taught there a while too over there on Fifth Street. They call it Urban Avenue Open School now.

17:35

Nell Simmons Oxner

Said, "Well, I used to take my bicycle and go to visit my mother on East Morehead Street and I know all about that, the streets there and where you live." And said, "I'm going to take you right home. Then I'm going back to the hospital. And said it's a pleasure and it's a joy having you." And I said, "I've enjoyed myself immensely." I said, "It was a beautiful dinner and everything was just fine." He said, "Well, she's not a great cook, but she did the best she could."

18:05

Nell Simmons Oxner

And I enjoyed it. She worked in the office where my husband was at McLintok, which was a feeding school for Rama Road at that time because it was just about a mile apart. And she said she volunteered office work there and the nurse's office as part-time. But with seven children she couldn't do much. She said—

18:29

Sonya Ramsey

And just going back when you taught at Myers Street, did you guys do extra things for the students?

18:50

Nell Simmons Oxner

Yes. You mean like bathing them up, freshen them up and stuff? That's right. And sometimes they'd come, somebody gave them something, a dress that was too long, the mother wouldn't even hem it. And you'd have your needle and thread in you drawer and you call the little child over there by the desk and you try to hem it up so it look good. And sometimes it'd be the odor is not real good and you take one of those food cans that the food comes out of the cafeteria, the string beans and stuff. You have it clean and you have the washcloth and you take it in the bathroom and freshen it up and things like that. You'd comb the hair, and especially when it's picture time, you have to comb it and brush it, because it looked like some of the parents those days, I don't know whether they didn't have the right attitude about anything.

18:57

Sonya Ramsey

Were the children there, were their parents— What social class were their parents?

19:40

Nell Simmons Oxner

I guess— I don't know what you would say. Mostly— a few would be moderate. Most of them were ghetto. The parents, I don't think they had too much to look for. I guess they were people who made about— Oh, I don't know, I guess they made five or $6 a week, the mother of the father. And after they bought grocer and paid their rent, there wasn't much to look forward to. I guess they thought they would just maybe buy a little wine or beer or something and just celebrate and don't be bothered about anything. I think it was a lot of them like that. I don't know, you call them ghetto or children or what you call them, but there were a lot of them like that at that time.

19:44

Sonya Ramsey

What kind of values did you try to instill in them?

20:28

Nell Simmons Oxner

To do the best you can and everybody is somebody. And to like one another, and some children were so mean. It looked like some of them were just— I don't know, this snappy. I guess it's the environment at home. You have to say, just calm down and behave yourself. He was looking at me harder. I said, now he doesn't mean anything. He's not hurting you. "It says something about my mother." I said, "They don't even know your mother. You see? They haven't been to your house, they don't know your mother. Evidently he might be talking about his mother. He's not talking about your mother." You just got to go from seat to seat and try to just help them out and try to get them to think positive or something. I'll tell you, it was something else.

20:30

Nell Simmons Oxner

But the little things they were loving and they would do what you said. And they tried, but then after they left you, they went right back in another kind of environment where they were on their own most time out in the street, I guess till time to go to bed and they would call them in or something like that and put them to bed.

21:13

Nell Simmons Oxner

We had a lot like that, but we had a few with different values. People who came very neat and clean, smelling good and did the best they could and parents came to see those three or four that they were doing their work or would help with the homework. But not all, uh-uh, not back then.

21:29

Sonya Ramsey

Did that change when you taught at integrated schools?

21:48

Nell Simmons Oxner

Some bit, yeah. It was an improvement. I saw an improvement. Even though they recall, it's a kind of low income area from Earle Village, I saw a little improvement. But still they didn't come PTA. They didn't come to talk to the teachers at all.

21:52

Sonya Ramsey

Going back to your social life, what kind of social things did you take part in as married couples in Charlotte?

22:10

Nell Simmons Oxner

In the '50s? Only going to the movies. That's it. That was our thing, going to the movies, honey. And then we had this one social club, we met once a month and there were about 20 some of us, and we have—

22:14

Sonya Ramsey

Men and women?

22:29

Nell Simmons Oxner

All women.

22:32

Sonya Ramsey

Oh, what was the name of that?

22:34

Nell Simmons Oxner

And the men had theirs. They had their fraternities and their clubs and we had all little sorority, Phi Delta Kappa, and we had our little social clubs.

22:34

Sonya Ramsey

What was the name of your social club?

22:45

Nell Simmons Oxner

Le Pierettes.

22:45

Sonya Ramsey

How do you spell that?

22:45

Nell Simmons Oxner

It's on the back of my class leaders— We were honorary club members. We buried her Sunday. Do you see that honorary? It's on the back.

22:53

Sonya Ramsey

Yes, we wanted to interview her, but we didn't get the chance.

23:06

Nell Simmons Oxner

She was my class leader, my club member and church member.

23:11

Sonya Ramsey

Okay. What kind of activities did the parents do?

23:16

Nell Simmons Oxner

Le Pierettes, we'd have people to come and speak to us about beautification or some political thing, speaker to come and talk to us about that. Or maybe somebody come and read poem, a student from Johnson C. Smith or somebody that one of the club members know their mother or something like that. Or somebody sing a solo. Once we had somebody come and play the piano, play some music. And then sometime we just go into the business section and plan what we are going to do for our sick members. Make a little box and carry little flowers or little toilet articles to a sick member or visit a nursing home and things. We do little things like that. Take up canned goods and take it to a needy family or take something to the Crisis Ministry, clothing for the Crisis Ministry. We did that last year. We're going to do it again this year. That's on the agenda.

23:20

Nell Simmons Oxner

And one of our club member's daughter, I think she still works with the Crisis Assistance Ministry here, where they give clothes and money help to the needy family, and so we're going to be getting boxes of clothes and things ready for that.

24:16

Sonya Ramsey

How were you selected to become a member or how are members selected?

24:31

Nell Simmons Oxner

To the club? Well, I guess through my church member. She was my church member and she was in this club, and it was organized when she was a girl, and she's 88 years old when she died and she took me in.

24:36

Sonya Ramsey

What year did you join in?

24:49

Nell Simmons Oxner

1949.

24:51

Sonya Ramsey

Okay. You said you also with your sorority— What kind of activities did you do?

24:52

Nell Simmons Oxner

Well, we did just about the same thing. Have speakers and getting boxes and having blood in where you're trying to get people to give blood and have people to come down, try to get a set up in a mall somewhere where they can take your blood pressure, little things like that. And giving things to the little needy children, like a nursery. Maybe we'd get a box and fix some things for that little home. We did things like that.

24:59

Sonya Ramsey

You said in your social club, you had political speakers come?

25:31

Nell Simmons Oxner

Yes.

25:35

Sonya Ramsey

Did you work with voter registration?

25:35

Nell Simmons Oxner

No, I didn't, and I was always asked to go down here and work down here at, what's the name of this Baptist church right here on Trade and Fifth Street? But I didn't accept it. I was bogged down with reading. I said, I had enough to do at that particular time. I wasn't going to be— And my church activities, I guess I'm on about seven committees and so that's enough. I got so many things to do. I didn't ever.

25:37

Nell Simmons Oxner

We have a representative from our church who was busy doing that, Johnnie Mae Collins. She's our representative and she attends the meetings and brings the information back to Grace AME Zion Church and tells us what to do and what's going on, what the Black caucus is doing at First Baptist. She brings the information so we are aware of what's going on.

26:01

Sonya Ramsey

Did you plan other kind activities like bridge club—

26:21

Nell Simmons Oxner

Yeah, we play pinochle and Court Whist and [indistinct 00:26:33] and things like that. Yeah, we do that for entertainment after we get through with our little businesses and whatever we're going to do every time. And then we have a special game we like, it's called In Between. I love it.

26:28

Sonya Ramsey

What kind of game is that?

26:44

Nell Simmons Oxner

It's a card game you to play in between.

26:46

Sonya Ramsey

You play in between, okay. But similar to any other card game?

26:48

Nell Simmons Oxner

Yes. It's something like— Any number could play. You have a large table and a lot of us, and each person gets two cards. The first card is turned down and the second one is up. And then you turn your cards up and you look at the two cards and then you ask the dealer, the dealer, one person's dealing, you'll ask that dealer to hit you for a card. You are hoping that you will get a card that will go in between the two cards you have. And if it does not go in between, then you have to fold your cards up and lay it on the table. See? All right, because it doesn't work. If it works, then— But first, before you tell the dealer to send you the card, you have to say "Hit me" for a certain amount. You only play for pennies just like you play pinochle for pennies.

26:54

Nell Simmons Oxner

You say two cents or three cents, because before the game starts, everybody ante up about two, three cents and make a little pot. The little pot is right there in the middle. Then when you said "Hit me," start with the first person on the dealer's left. And you said, I think I can get a card that would go in there and so I'm going to say three cent or five cent out that pot, and you say that. If it goes in there, you get five cent out the pot. If it doesn't, you put five cent in the pot. See? And then she goes to the next person and then some of them said, I don't have anything. I have to fold up. So they fold up. They can't get anything between, you might have two kings or a king and a queen or something. Nothing's going to fit in between.

27:47

Nell Simmons Oxner

And then sometime you have a big spread, like an ace and a deuce or something like that. And then you say, "Ooh, I got a good chance here." But sometime it might not be a good chance because you might get another ace, see it doesn't go in between. Or you might get another deuce. But you think you have. And then sometimes you said, I bet the pot, and then you're already in trouble because if you get a three or an ace, then you out of luck. Then you have to count every penny in there and you have to put that amount right back in that pot, whatever's in there. It's a good game. I like it. Yeah, it's fun.

28:33

Sonya Ramsey

Did you play that throughout in the '50s and the '60s or are [indistinct 00:29:08]?

29:03

Nell Simmons Oxner

Yes. Oh, we've been playing that for a long time. We played Court Whist with and yeah, and Pokeno and all those different games. We love card games. Pinochle.

29:08

Sonya Ramsey

I didn't get to ask, did you have any children?

29:22

Nell Simmons Oxner

No, we don't have any children. I'm just fortunate enough to have a lot of nieces and nephews that we looked after and helped out all through the years, financially and every other way. I just got her brother out of University of Chicago in June. No, in May, he has a doctorate and got a job in New Jersey teaching at some university there.

29:24

Nell Simmons Oxner

So in a way, they think that we are rich. I said we couldn't be, because when we give all my sisters and brothers and their children, we don't have as much as your parents. They can't understand that. Youngsters don't understand that because we've been contributing to their education and their wellbeing and whatever is happening to them all through the years, you see.

29:48

Sonya Ramsey

Was that a conscious decision not to have children?

30:11

Nell Simmons Oxner

No, it just didn't happen, and we didn't try to make it happen. I said, got enough nieces and nephew, that's enough. So we didn't, no children.

30:15

Sonya Ramsey

Did you have any role models during your life that you especially looked up to?

30:24

Nell Simmons Oxner

No. Nothing but my mother. Only my mother, my darling mother.

30:33

Sonya Ramsey

Any special teachers or anything?

30:41

Nell Simmons Oxner

As a role model? No, I didn't. I just—

30:42

Sonya Ramsey

Also, you're so active in your church. Do you participate in the conventions and things like that?

30:44

Nell Simmons Oxner

Well, I have to. My husband does that part of it. I tell you what I do. Whenever a member is deceased, I have to get the flower to that funeral home. Then if it's a person who's related to the person in the church, is related to a church member, a close relative, I have to make a voucher for a check to go to that person. I see to that. Then I was on the flower committee to see the flower gets in the church at a certain time.

30:54

Nell Simmons Oxner

Then I'm on the greeting committee where once a month, I have to get up and greet the birthday people, people who have birthdays in certain months. And then I'm the chairperson of the program committee. I have to get a program. We have one this coming Sunday. I have a program already fixed up for Sunday. And just here and there and I said, I got enough stuff to be doing and I'm not going get involved in anything else, I think. I have a lot to do.

31:27

Sonya Ramsey

I think I have—

31:56

Nell Simmons Oxner

And this is my program I'm working on. I don't know if I have much changes right now. I got to— let's see. I've been working on it deadly. I've got my speaker.

31:59

Sonya Ramsey

Be careful.

32:10

Nell Simmons Oxner

Yes, I see. I don't know whether I have to go over it again and refine it or what, but I was— Because I got to have it ready. The pastor's going to run it off tomorrow when I get it. And this is to give you volume. It's just on the first page, but this will give you volume. That's after church Sunday.

32:20

Sonya Ramsey

When you came to Charlotte, did you continue with your music and things like that?

32:38

Nell Simmons Oxner

I went a little while to Ms. Oliver, a music teacher here in Charlotte. But then I put that down, I stopped. I said, no, I won't bother with it anymore.

32:43

Sonya Ramsey

Why did you stop?

32:52

Nell Simmons Oxner

I just got lazy. I said I'm not going to bother with music anymore. But I sang in the choir. We had a chancel choir there and I sang a while, and it disbanded and I never joined the regular choir. But we did have one at Grace long ago called the Chancel Choir many years ago and I used to sing in it, but I don't sing anymore.

32:53

Sonya Ramsey

Okay. If anything else you'd like to add or you think we've left something out?

33:15

Nell Simmons Oxner

No, no. I don't think I was very helpful to you because I didn't have any—

33:21

Sonya Ramsey

You were very, very helpful. Very helpful. Okay, after—

33:27

RL00170-CS-0476_02

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John Hope Franklin Research Center