Rosetta Wilson interview recording, 1995 July 11

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Stacey Scales	Your name?	0:01
Rosetta Garison Wilson	Rosetta Wilson.	0:02
Stacey Scales	Okay. How long have you lived in this area Ms. Wilson?	0:03
Rosetta Garison Wilson	All my life.	0:08
Stacey Scales	All your life.	0:08
Rosetta Garison Wilson	Yeah. I lived up at Fargo, between Fargo and Zent. That's where I was born, which is about five miles north of here. And since, let's see, the year before last, I moved here to the Senior Citizen Apartment.	0:10
Stacey Scales	Okay.	0:31
Rosetta Garison Wilson	My home was out at Fargo.	0:32
Stacey Scales	Great. What are your earliest memories from growing up?	0:34
Rosetta Garison Wilson	Well, I went to school, the Zent School, and then went to Fargo School and graduated from the 12th grade at Fargo Agricultural School. Well, I did go to a beauty college in Pine Bluff for about six months.	0:39
Stacey Scales	Were your parents educated people too?	1:06
Rosetta Garison Wilson	No, they didn't get no more than about the eighth and ninth grade.	1:09
Stacey Scales	Did they talk about schooling to you?	1:15
Rosetta Garison Wilson	They wanted me to go to school. They weren't able, their parents were poor. Their parents were my grandparents on my dad's side. I think they were in slavery, something like that, slave times. But they were Garrisons. That's my name. Rosetta, my maiden name was Garrison and married Wilson.	1:18
Stacey Scales	Do you remember any of the stories from the slavery times that were told?	1:47
Rosetta Garison Wilson	I remember reading. I remember reading about them. That's about all.	1:53
Stacey Scales	So you just remember reading about it?	1:58
Rosetta Garison Wilson	Oh yeah. Reading about how they— Well, you see these pictures on TV about it now. That's some of the things that I read about, how they used to treat the slaves and work then and beat them and make them work. And then the masters will have a go with the girl, young girls, and all that. And rear children, that's where we got these different colors from.	1:59
Stacey Scales	You don't remember any of the stories?	2:31
Rosetta Garison Wilson	Well, I can tell you about the Jim Crow here in Brinkley. When I was growing up, from on to— Oh, well, I just said, it's 1970. When the school was segregated, all up until 1970. One of my daughters graduated from the Marian Anderson High School, and she was a graduate at that time. And that was the last year of segregation at the Marian Anderson High School. They combined with the Franklin High School, which was White. So that's how we integrated this town's school.	2:35
Rosetta Garison Wilson	And then I remember— Oh, Jim Crow in cafeterias and cafes and restaurants and so on, and restrooms at the bus station. Black. They didn't say Black, they said Colored at that time. Colored and White. One for colored, one for White. And the waiting room at the bus station, one for Colored, one for White. At train stations, the same way. Restroom, one Colored and one White, and the waiting room too.	3:23
Stacey Scales	At what age did you realize those things existed? The White and the Black section.	4:09
Rosetta Garison Wilson	In my teenage years. I felt bad about it then I just realized when growing up, you don't notice, you don't care too much about it. In your younger days, when I got into teenage, that's when I felt bad about it. That made difference in the Black and White.	4:17
Stacey Scales	Did your parents give you any wisdom to work with, to survive those times?	4:39
Rosetta Garison Wilson	Well, the only thing they told me to work and try to get an education so that I could get maybe a better job and so on like that.	4:46
Stacey Scales	Yeah. Could you describe your neighbors and your community while you were growing up?	4:56
Rosetta Garison Wilson	Let's see. Well, I had some good neighbors around me. The Swankens. The Briscos, which this young man who's interviewing was Brisco right there now. And they were all good neighbors. They were poor just like I was, but they all reared up family, children went to school. Some of them went to college, like that. And we did the best we could through hardships.	5:07
Stacey Scales	Were there ever hard times where you had to stick together?	5:41
Rosetta Garison Wilson	Oh, yes. A lot of time. We'd help one another. A lot of time. When one needed help, the other neighbor would help and back and forth like that.	5:45
Stacey Scales	So were there places that you couldn't go as a young lady growing up here, that your parents suggested maybe you shouldn't go?	5:58
Rosetta Garison Wilson	Oh, yeah. Yeah, like to those gambling clubs and stuff like that. Yeah, they would tell us not to go to. A lot of places like that here in Franklin, they would tell us not to go to. It wasn't decent for Christian people. My parents were strict. They were religious people.	6:08
Stacey Scales	So what type of things did you do to entertain yourself? What do people—	6:31
Rosetta Garison Wilson	Well, mostly go to church. Go to church, different churches. That's mostly what I did after I married. Well, I was going to church a lot all through all the time, but going to school, we would have ball games and maybe little parties, school parties, you understand? Things like that. That was the only thing. I didn't go out to bunch of these other parties.	6:40
Stacey Scales	Okay.	7:10
Rosetta Garison Wilson	Yeah.	7:10
Stacey Scales	Were there Black businesses here when you were growing up?	7:11
Rosetta Garison Wilson	Yes. Fargo, as the town of Fargo, they had two citizens. They had gyms that were put up by Black people. A gym, store, Mason Hall and little cafe, restaurant or whatever. And let me see, they had a blacksmith shop. Right there in the town of Fargo. It's gone down now, but that school is there now. I know you realize, but it was booming way back in my teenage. It was a Black town. That's right.	7:18
Stacey Scales	What type of things would you learn at Fargo Agricultural School?	8:02
Rosetta Garison Wilson	Girls learn how to cook and be good housewives, sew and cook. That's the girls and the boys they learn how to work on the farm, make things in blacksmith shop and mechanic work and building furniture and stuff like that. Things like that.	8:07
Stacey Scales	Okay. What was the relationship between the people in school and the people that lived around the area? The teachers and the different people that lived in the community?	8:28
Rosetta Garison Wilson	Well, it was about the same. They would attend church, at the church that we had in Fargo. And also the people in the community, when they put on a big program at the school, they would go to the school. They used to have a farmer's conference there in February. And the parents would come out to the farmer's conference, that was them job and they learn a lot about farming.	8:42
Rosetta Garison Wilson	And they would attend ball game, basketball game, football game. Every Thanksgiving we'd have, I guess, a Thanksgiving get-together at the school and everybody would be invited. And they'd have a speaking, and they'd serve dinner. And in the evening after that they would have a ball game. It was enjoyable, something to go to.	9:15
Stacey Scales	At what point would you say in your life did you go from being a girl to being a woman?	9:47
Rosetta Garison Wilson	Well, I'd probably say after I was 20, because I just had the girl-ish mind up until then. After that I thought about being a woman.	9:55
Stacey Scales	What made you realize, "Okay, now is my time"?	10:16
Rosetta Garison Wilson	Now is time to be getting married and everything. I wanted children, so I got that. Yeah, Lord blessed me with eight children.	10:20
Stacey Scales	When you were coming up in school, did you ever learn about Black history or Black pride or anything like that?	10:35
Rosetta Garison Wilson	Yeah, about Booker T. Washington and Frederick Douglas and, let's see, two or three more. I'm old now. It gets kind of off my mind. There's several more. Yeah, we learned about them. We did.	10:44
Stacey Scales	Were there any women's organizations here in the Fargo area?	11:02
Rosetta Garison Wilson	Forage Club.	11:05
Stacey Scales	The Forage Club?	11:08
Rosetta Garison Wilson	Yeah. Okay. Extension search or whatever. Yeah, we had that. We would cook and learn to cook and make different— sew and make different things like that. Make pillows and different things, different items. And go on trips. They'd have this meeting, different places where you'd go to. Little Rock or Pine Bluff or something like that. Meeting with other Forage Clubs.	11:10
Stacey Scales	Were there any other organizations for Black women?	11:45
Rosetta Garison Wilson	Yeah. Yes. This was all Black, we were in. I don't know whether the Whites had in there. I didn't hear of it. Black.	11:50
Stacey Scales	Were there others like that, like the Forage Club? I heard something like—	11:59
Rosetta Garison Wilson	Yeah. They had several others. Let me see, White Rose Club or something like that.	12:04
Stacey Scales	A White Rose Club?	12:14
Rosetta Garison Wilson	Yeah.	12:15
Stacey Scales	Okay.	12:17
Rosetta Garison Wilson	I don't know. They had some more clubs here for Blacks up here in Brinkley. But this what I was talking about, well, they have Forage here too, but mostly at Fargo it's just a Forage out there.	12:17
Stacey Scales	Do you remember your first job?	12:32
Rosetta Garison Wilson	Yes. Well, my first job to make my own money was after I went to beauty college. I did hair for a while, and worked at that. And at home growing up, I worked in the fields. And that's another thing I meant to speak about too. Back in those days before the school combined, they had time for Black people, the children, to work on up until about November. So they could pick cotton for the White people. You understand? They'd start school after that.	12:36
Rosetta Garison Wilson	Yeah, now the White children, that school would start in September, but the Black school wouldn't start until November. That's right. So we could pick cotton.	13:32
Stacey Scales	How'd you feel about that?	13:46
Rosetta Garison Wilson	I didn't like it, but we had to go along with it. And then we had summer school too. So let's see, that'll be about the last of July and August, and the first part of September. That's to make up for the nine months, you see, that we missed. Because see the first part of where they start chopping cotton, and I just said June and all of June, and about the middle of July where we chopped cotton. So then we started school, summer school, in order to make up for the nine months. Yeah, that's the way it was. That's way it was here.	13:50
Stacey Scales	So while you were in school in the summer, they would be out?	14:43
Rosetta Garison Wilson	That's right. Yeah, and in the fall when we'd be out school picking cotton, they would be in. Yep. That's the way it was. Yeah.	14:47
Stacey Scales	That's interesting. Do you remember your teachers at that school?	14:59
Rosetta Garison Wilson	Yes. I remember. We had several. Let me see. Dean Hayes was one of my teachers, and Wilhelmina Mayhan. Mrs. Stark. Mr. Wilson. That's it. Ain't as much. I can't think of all of them. But I imagine you've seen the Fargo catalog, haven't you?	15:11
Stacey Scales	Yeah, right there in the museum.	15:50
Rosetta Garison Wilson	You'll see that a lot of the teachers in there. They showed them in there. I'd have to get one to think all the teachers names, because I went from ninth grade through the 12th grade at Fargo Agriculture School. And my teachers at the public schools, Zent School, Mrs. Briggs. My first teacher, was Amrah Fox. That's who I started the school under, Amrah Fox. Mrs. Cannon and Mrs. Briggs. Mrs. Freeman, Mr. Jones, Mrs. Bridgette. Ms. Fettis Watson. We had a little home ed teacher, Mary Jane Wilson. Maybe some of those I missed, but I remember the one.	15:52
Stacey Scales	Which one of these teachers had an impression upon you to really inspire you? I guess all of them did.	17:06
Rosetta Garison Wilson	Mrs. Freeman. Yeah, all of them did, but the main one was Ms. Freeman. That's who I graduated from the eighth grade under.	17:11
Stacey Scales	Oh, yes?	17:19
Rosetta Garison Wilson	Yeah. She would push us so hard. And she said, I'm just going have a little graduation exercise for y'all. And that was the first one we had from the school. And her son and her niece and I were the ones that spoke, you know, at this [indistinct 00:17:47]. One had the welcome and such like that. And that was just something extra. The school was full for that. Yeah, for that program. It was just something they hadn't seen before.	17:19
Stacey Scales	Were you all honor students?	18:02
Rosetta Garison Wilson	Yes. Yeah.	18:08
Stacey Scales	Okay.	18:09
Rosetta Garison Wilson	In that school. I wasn't an honor student in the Fargo.	18:12
Stacey Scales	That changed.	18:19
Rosetta Garison Wilson	I made good, but I didn't past on As, I made average.	18:23
Stacey Scales	Who were considered the local leaders when you were—?	18:35
Rosetta Garison Wilson	Well, president Floyd Brown was the main one. President of Fargo Agriculture School. And then we had some preachers around. Reverend E.M. Garrison, which was my uncle and the Reverend Chandler and Mr. Mayhan. Lee Mayhan, that was his name. So Lee Mayhan, and his wife too. She was teaching at another school, which is over in the Fox settlement. Not far from Fargo, over near the bowl. Her name was Kelly Mayhan.	18:39
Stacey Scales	And what about them stood out? What in that character stood out as leadership qualities?	19:24
Rosetta Garison Wilson	I think President Brown stood out more than anyone. Yeah, because he was just a good leader in everything around Fargo. And I think, let me see in Brinkley, I guess the Black were Reverend Hayes and the principal of the Marian Anderson school was—. Let's see, was it Ian Jones, I think. Yeah. Iam Jones	19:44
Stacey Scales	Did you experience discrimination ever growing up here?	20:26
Rosetta Garison Wilson	Yes. Well, in jobs such like that. Of course, I never did really try to get a job here really, but some of them that was trying to get a job, there was discrimination they would give the best jobs to White and hard jobs, hard housework, stuff like that, they'd give it to Blacks. The discrimination in jobs.	20:32
Stacey Scales	Could you share some of those experiences with me?	21:08
Rosetta Garison Wilson	No. I really didn't go out to try to get a job until after I finished high school, and that's when I went on to take up beauty school. Uh-huh, yeah.	21:14
Stacey Scales	We were talking earlier about your first job. Where was that? You said you worked in the fields?	21:27
Rosetta Garison Wilson	Yeah. Yeah. I helped my parents.	21:35
Stacey Scales	Was it their farm?	21:37
Rosetta Garison Wilson	Yeah. Yeah. They would pay me. And then I worked in a neighbors' field too.	21:38
Stacey Scales	A Black man.	21:48
Rosetta Garison Wilson	And he would pay me to help him.	21:50
Stacey Scales	How much were you getting paid?	21:54
Rosetta Garison Wilson	Oh, now that's something to think about. That's really worth putting in. In those days we were getting a dollar a day.	21:57
Stacey Scales	Yeah.	22:02
Rosetta Garison Wilson	A dollar a day. That was something. That was way back in, I guess, it's about '36 or '37, or somewhere around there. I don't know, it might have been '40. I don't know. It had to be in the thirties.	22:04
Stacey Scales	A dollar a day.	22:16
Rosetta Garison Wilson	That's something. Yeah, a dollar day for chopping cotton.	22:18
Stacey Scales	And how long would you work?	22:22
Rosetta Garison Wilson	We would work from eight o'clock until five.	22:25
Stacey Scales	And you were getting a dollar?	22:31
Rosetta Garison Wilson	A dollar a day. A dollar at that time was about the same as $10 now.	22:31
Stacey Scales	Oh yeah?	22:35
Rosetta Garison Wilson	Yeah. Everything was so cheap. Yeah. You could take a dollar and just buy, I don't know how much. Yeah.	22:36
Stacey Scales	How'd you feel about making $1 for—?	22:43
Rosetta Garison Wilson	Oh, I felt good about it. I could go and buy me a nice dress for a dollar.	22:45
Stacey Scales	Okay.	22:50
Rosetta Garison Wilson	Yeah. But oh boy, the difference in now.	22:52
Stacey Scales	Did most Blacks own their farms back then?	22:59
Rosetta Garison Wilson	Yeah, up around Fargo, most Blacks owned their own farms. They weren't large, maybe like 60 acres, like that. Some of them had maybe 100 acres, but most of them owned their own farm. Most Blacks. Around Fargo and Zent.	23:03
Stacey Scales	Did Blacks on their own cars too?	23:24
Rosetta Garison Wilson	Yes. Yes. They owned cars. Sure did. Tractors to work the field. Yeah.	23:32
Stacey Scales	Okay. Were jobs plentiful back then?	23:43
Rosetta Garison Wilson	No, not really. Nothing but field work mostly. The big rice farmers were hiring Blacks to work and drive tractors and such, like combines and all like that.	23:47
Stacey Scales	Oh yeah.	24:03
Rosetta Garison Wilson	Mm-hmm.	24:03
Stacey Scales	Your parents, were your parents farmers too?	24:06
Rosetta Garison Wilson	Yeah, they were farmers.	24:08
Stacey Scales	Oh, okay. Did they ever talk about how it was for them to make it in life?	24:17
Rosetta Garison Wilson	Oh yeah. They would talk about how hard it was for them, but they stuck with it.	24:19
Stacey Scales	So what would they say about how hard it was?	24:26
Rosetta Garison Wilson	Oh, a lot of times they would have to do without food that they would want to eat. They would have to eat just plain food, when a lot of times they would maybe want steak or something like that at times. Yeah, way back. They wasn't able to get it. And clothes, the same way. They would have to make out with just common clothes, wasn't able to get fine clothes, expensive clothes. But it worked on out better later.	24:32
Stacey Scales	Was church mandatory when you were growing up?	25:12
Rosetta Garison Wilson	Yes. Yeah. Yeah. All the Black people around in my community really wanted— They would send their children to church. They'd carry them. Not only send them, they would carry. They would.	25:15
Stacey Scales	Is that where you got your sense of morality from, church and your family?	25:34
Rosetta Garison Wilson	Yes. Okay. Yeah.	25:38
Stacey Scales	Would they have revivals?	25:39
Rosetta Garison Wilson	Yes. Yeah.	25:45
Stacey Scales	Oh, let's see. Is there an African American cemetery in the Fargo area?	25:52
Rosetta Garison Wilson	Yes. Macedonia Cemetery.	25:59
Stacey Scales	Oh, Macedonian Cemetery?	26:02
Rosetta Garison Wilson	Uh-huh.	26:02
Stacey Scales	Okay. Were there any burial practices that were different than now, that Blacks would do then?	26:09
Rosetta Garison Wilson	No.	26:17
Stacey Scales	It was about the same?	26:20
Rosetta Garison Wilson	About the same.	26:21
Stacey Scales	Okay, because I've had people tell me back then, the family used to do more of the digging of the plot or the grave, and now they use machines.	26:23
Rosetta Garison Wilson	Oh yeah.	26:26
Stacey Scales	Someone told me that.	26:35
Rosetta Garison Wilson	Yeah. Well, it is a little, but they're still free to dig if they want to.	26:35
Stacey Scales	Oh yeah.	26:40
Rosetta Garison Wilson	If they're not able to hire somebody to use the machine where they can dig their own relative's plot, out at that cemetery, the Macedonia. Not up here in town. I don't know. Yeah.	26:41
Stacey Scales	How were holidays spent in your family?	27:04
Rosetta Garison Wilson	Oh. Well, we'd have big dinners. At Thanksgiving, go to some family, get together and have prayer. Thanksgiving prayer before dinner. Some of the relatives will come over. And at Christmas the same way. Only everybody believed in Santa Claus, the children. They'd Santa Claus the children. Yeah, that was a happy time for children, Christmas. 4th of July we'd have picnics and bowl games.	27:07
Stacey Scales	Would people come from far off to do that?	27:44
Rosetta Garison Wilson	Yeah, people come on the 4th. Yeah, thanksgiving too. Well, some of them would come for Christmas too.	27:45
Stacey Scales	Did you have any relatives that went up north during your younger days?	28:00
Rosetta Garison Wilson	Yes. I had aunts and uncles that went up there. Lived up there.	28:13
Stacey Scales	Would they come back and visit?	28:13
Rosetta Garison Wilson	Yeah. They'd come back and visit.	28:16
Stacey Scales	Okay. Did you ever get the chance to travel?	28:17
Rosetta Garison Wilson	No more than going to Michigan and Indiana. Chicago. Haven't been anywhere much.	28:24
Stacey Scales	Was that much different than here?	28:33
Rosetta Garison Wilson	Yeah, a lot different. People weren't friendly.	28:36
Stacey Scales	No?	28:39
Rosetta Garison Wilson	No. You could be around close neighbors and you don't know what they do. They don't know nothing about you. My own children, they were up there and I'd ask them and say, "Who lived there?" "Oh, we don't know." Oh, they weren't friendly.	28:42
Stacey Scales	Did you ever visit during the Jim Crow times?	29:00
Rosetta Garison Wilson	No. No.	29:03
Stacey Scales	Did people back then use plants and different things to help people feel better?	29:10
Rosetta Garison Wilson	Not really. I don't think I can remember.	29:19
Stacey Scales	Or herbs and different roots?	29:22
Rosetta Garison Wilson	I know there was one old man that used a lot of herbs. He would tell other people about it, using some herbs for different complaints. Sometimes some of them would use it and it would help.	29:23
Stacey Scales	Oh yeah.	29:42
Rosetta Garison Wilson	Uh huh, but most of them would go to a doctor. People were more healthy back then in those days. There wasn't sickness like it is now. That's right. I guess they would eat the food. It's so much poison in the air now, in the insect— You know what they spray.	29:42
Stacey Scales	Oh, the insecticide.	30:03
Rosetta Garison Wilson	Yeah. Insecticide. Right. Yeah. So I think that had a lot to do with people's health now, because the doctor said it had a lot to do with it. So many different kind of strange sickness. People have viruses now. They see it comes from a lot of that.	30:06
Stacey Scales	I've heard other people have recipes for different things. Do you remember any of those, like dandelion tea?	30:25
Rosetta Garison Wilson	Yeah. I remember them telling about mullein tea for arthritis.	30:35
Stacey Scales	Okay.	30:44
Rosetta Garison Wilson	And I don't know about dandelion tea. Elderberry tea.	30:44
Stacey Scales	Elderberry tea. What was that good for?	30:46
Rosetta Garison Wilson	That was good for cleansing and purifying the blood. Mullein tea was good for swelling and arthritis in the limbs.	30:50
Stacey Scales	Were there midwives?	31:05
Rosetta Garison Wilson	Yes. Yes. I used midwives myself. I can tell you about that.	31:07
Stacey Scales	And who did you use?	31:15
Rosetta Garison Wilson	It was a lady that was a nurse. She was named Alma. Yeah, Jones. Alma Jones. She was my midwife for a while, and then she moved left here. And then I used a lady called Virginia Teegs. Yeah, but we had to go to doctors and the midwives were licensed and everything. And so we would have to go to doctors when we were pregnant once a month to see if we would be in shape for a midwife. If the doctors found out that we wasn't in shape of that, then we would have to go to the hospital. That we can get enough shape where we could use midwives. So I guess I was in pretty good— I used midwives for all my children.	31:19
Stacey Scales	Who taught the midwives their training?	32:23
Rosetta Garison Wilson	I don't know. I guess they went to some kind of schooling, but I don't know where. They had to take training for it. Sure did.	32:26
Stacey Scales	Who were the local Black doctors in town?	32:37
Rosetta Garison Wilson	Dr. Money and Dr. Morris and Dr. Thorn. Dr. Thorn was at Cotton Plant.	32:45
Stacey Scales	Oh yeah.	32:55
Rosetta Garison Wilson	Dr. Morris and Dr. Money in Brinkley. Those are the only two Blacks that I can remember. They had several White.	32:55
Stacey Scales	Did they make house calls?	33:05
Rosetta Garison Wilson	Oh yes. Yeah, they would.	33:08
Stacey Scales	Both the Black and the White doctors?	33:12
Rosetta Garison Wilson	Yes.	33:13
Stacey Scales	Okay. So the White doctors would treat both Black and White?	33:14
Rosetta Garison Wilson	Black and White. Sure would.	33:18
Stacey Scales	And how about the Black doctors, would they treat Whites too?	33:21
Rosetta Garison Wilson	Yeah, they would let them treat. Finally they started it. Yeah. Just a few years back.	33:24
Stacey Scales	Okay. So before they wouldn't let them treat White?	33:32
Rosetta Garison Wilson	No.	33:35
Stacey Scales	Okay. I was wondering, with these Black doctors being in town, was there a Black hospital?	33:40
Rosetta Garison Wilson	No. They only have White.	33:47
Stacey Scales	Would Blacks be allowed to utilize their facility?	33:51
Rosetta Garison Wilson	Yes. Yeah.	33:54
Stacey Scales	Oh yeah.	33:54
Rosetta Garison Wilson	Yes.	33:55
Stacey Scales	Was it a separated facility? Segregated?	33:55
Rosetta Garison Wilson	Yes. Yeah. They put Blacks in the separate rooms from White at that time. They sure did.	34:07
Stacey Scales	And your first job being the— I was thinking the working the cotton. What was your next jobs after working doing the field work? Did you work any place else?	34:24
Rosetta Garison Wilson	Well, I worked in a cafe for a while.	34:37
Stacey Scales	What was the name of it?	34:40
Rosetta Garison Wilson	That was after I started school down in Fargo. I forgot the name. I think it was like— Seemed like it was Jackson Cafe. It was a Syrian's, I guess what you call them, foreigners.	34:43
Stacey Scales	So how was it working there?	34:54
Rosetta Garison Wilson	It was fine. He was real nice. I worked there and they hated for me to leave. They told me if I ever come back, I had a job waiting for me.	35:02
Stacey Scales	Where was the cafe?	35:19
Rosetta Garison Wilson	It was in Pine Bluff. I forgot now. Just what name of the street. It's been so long. Yeah, and I'm forgetful.	35:19
Stacey Scales	So were you traveling to Pine Bluff?	35:29
Rosetta Garison Wilson	Oh, I was going to school there. Yeah, at that time.	35:32
Stacey Scales	Which school were you going to?	35:39
Rosetta Garison Wilson	The Brown Skin Beauty School.	35:43
Stacey Scales	Oh, so you went to a beauty college?	35:45
Rosetta Garison Wilson	Yeah. Mm-hmm.	35:47
Stacey Scales	Were there African American beauticians in Fargo and Brinkley?	35:57
Rosetta Garison Wilson	Yes. Right.	36:00
Stacey Scales	Who were the beauticians?	36:03
Rosetta Garison Wilson	Let me see. Miss Boyes, Miss Finney, and Miss Maurice Mayhan. Now they have this Miss— What's the name of the lady? Erline Harden. And there's another lady too.	36:08
Stacey Scales	This is in the '30s and '40s and '50s?	36:39
Rosetta Garison Wilson	No, no, this is now.	36:41
Stacey Scales	Okay.	36:43
Rosetta Garison Wilson	Yeah. Way back in the '40s, I just said Miss Mayhan, Miss Boyes, and Miss Finney. Those were the only one around here.	36:45
Stacey Scales	Okay. Were the beauty shops and barber shops used for conversations about the community ever?	37:01
Rosetta Garison Wilson	Yes. Yeah, they would talk. Gossip, I say.	37:09
Stacey Scales	Okay. Was there an African American newspaper here?	37:18
Rosetta Garison Wilson	Yeah, one time. It was one. I'm trying to think what's the name of that paper? I've forgotten, but that's been several years back. I don't know. I don't know why they stopped with that. I guess the old heads might have died out or something. Yeah, they can try another one.	37:27
Stacey Scales	What were the other means of getting news in the Brinkley, Fargo?	37:52
Rosetta Garison Wilson	Oh yeah. Well they have a Brinkley Argus, where they have Black and White news. They can put the news in there. The Brinkley Argus is for Black people and White people.	37:58
Stacey Scales	Okay.	38:11
Rosetta Garison Wilson	But it's owned by a White.	38:12
Stacey Scales	Do you remember your earlier times voting?	38:16
Rosetta Garison Wilson	Yes. Yeah, we had voting. Everybody. Black people voted just like White.	38:21
Stacey Scales	So there was no challenges?	38:32
Rosetta Garison Wilson	No.	38:34
Stacey Scales	No obstructions.	38:37
Rosetta Garison Wilson	No, no obstructions. When it passed, they just opened the doors for us to vote. We could go in and vote.	38:38
Stacey Scales	Okay. Did African Americans in the '30s and '40s ever talk about haints or spirits and things like that?	38:43
Rosetta Garison Wilson	Oh yeah. This one old man used to talk about it all the time.	38:55
Stacey Scales	Yeah.	38:58
Rosetta Garison Wilson	He would always— Well, a lot of them would say they would see things. I never did see nothing really. I didn't want to. But my parents never said anything about they saw anything, but a lot of Black people talk about, "Yeah, I saw a man with his head off walking down the road and all like that." Some of them say they see some white horses.	39:01
Rosetta Garison Wilson	This old man would say, "Yeah, it was some money buried somewhere. And every time the people would dig for the money, they get nearly by to the money, the man come along with the white horse, riding the white horse." Was a haint, or whatever you call it. I said, "Oh boy."	39:23
Stacey Scales	That is a great story.	39:37
Rosetta Garison Wilson	Yeah.	39:44
Stacey Scales	Did other people talk about those things?	39:45
Rosetta Garison Wilson	Yeah. Yeah. A lot of people talked about it. Lot of young people said they would see things.	39:48
Stacey Scales	Oh yeah?	39:53
Rosetta Garison Wilson	But I never did see anything. No kind of ghosts or nothing, but I was glad I didn't because I didn't want to see them.	39:54
Stacey Scales	Where would they say they saw these things? Would it be near cemeteries?	40:02
Rosetta Garison Wilson	No, they say they would just see them maybe at their home. Sometime meet them down the road or something. My daughter said she saw one, she guess it was one. She was driving coming from Brinkley up here up to my home in the country. And one night said she was just driving along and this man stepped out from the roadside, stepped out in the front of the car and she made a whirl to go around him because she couldn't have, she had to go around because she didn't want hit him.	40:06
Stacey Scales	Right.	40:39
Rosetta Garison Wilson	And time she went around, she looked back, she didn't see nothing. So she said that must have been a ghost, because he would still be back there somewhere. She didn't see a thing.	40:39
Stacey Scales	If I were masculine like that—	40:50
Rosetta Garison Wilson	Yeah.	40:54
Stacey Scales	Do people talk about signs and superstitions too?	40:54
Rosetta Garison Wilson	Oh yes. Yeah, they really believed signs. Yeah, it's different signs. If it rain— Let me see. All right. They still got that sign. If it rains on the first of any month, it'll be 15 days rain that month. That's the reason they said it rained a lot in July, because it rained on the first year. Oh, that's a lot of signs about different things.	41:04
Rosetta Garison Wilson	Some of them had so many signs, you couldn't hardly do anything because you'd be bad luck, they said. I don't pay any attention. I just go and do what I got to do.	41:35
Stacey Scales	Right. So where would they get these signs from?	41:46
Rosetta Garison Wilson	I don't know. I guess from way back in slavery time. Yeah, from their forefathers and all. That's what I say. Handed on down.	41:54
Stacey Scales	Would people plant by these signs?	42:03
Rosetta Garison Wilson	Yeah. What you call it? The zodiac sign. Yeah, the moon. Yeah, right. They plant by those. Yeah, a lot of them do that. Which I would do some of that, because it is a growing moon. You plant things on a new moon, it'll grow real fast. They said plant on a new moon the things that grow above the ground, that's when you plant. Things like potatoes and such, you want to grow and do well under the ground, you plant it on a dark moon, on the full moon, when the moon is wasted.	42:07
Stacey Scales	If you used that process, would your crops grow better?	42:45
Rosetta Garison Wilson	Yes. That was really good. That's true about that. And I think that really had something to do with it. The moon signs. That's the only thing that I did go by.	42:48
Stacey Scales	Oh yeah. Do people still use those?	43:00
Rosetta Garison Wilson	Yes. A lot of them still use it. I guess since it been a lot of rainy weather now, they don't go by whenever they can get crops in, they go in and plant. They can't wait. Grow them too late.	43:04
Stacey Scales	So was that handed down from one generation?	43:19
Rosetta Garison Wilson	Yes.	43:19
Stacey Scales	So did your parents and grandparents do that same thing?	43:26
Rosetta Garison Wilson	Yes. Yeah, they did the same thing.	43:32
Stacey Scales	Did your family have livestock?	43:37
Rosetta Garison Wilson	Yes. Cows, hogs, chickens, turkey, duck.	43:39
Stacey Scales	How would you kill them?	43:49
Rosetta Garison Wilson	Well, if they're going to kill a yelling or something like that, they would first shoot it in the head. That's to knock the senses out of it so it wouldn't be painful. And it would fall out, and then they would cut the throats so it would bleed. So the blood would come out. So the meat wouldn't be bloody. Yeah. And chickens, they just cut the heads off. Cut the heads off and hang them up and the blood would run out. That'd make the meat pretty and white so it wouldn't be dark meat.	43:56
Stacey Scales	Did you ever have to do those things?	44:36
Rosetta Garison Wilson	One time. Yeah, after I married though. I had my children trying to help me kill some chicken. I say, "Y'all hold the feet and I cut the head off." But one time I caught myself cutting the chicken head off and it was a rooster. And I cut, I said, "All right, y'all turn it loose." And the rooster got away. I just cut the skin a little bit. I hated to do that. I just hated. I didn't like trying to kill anything. And they kill hogs right here when they'd shoot the hog, I'd be back in the house. I didn't want to see it.	44:41
Stacey Scales	Was it disgusting to you or something?	45:26
Rosetta Garison Wilson	Yeah, just kind of get on my nerves. I just didn't like to see nothing be killed. I just didn't like that.	45:28
Stacey Scales	And what would they do with the meat?	45:39
Rosetta Garison Wilson	Oh yes. After they clean the— Get the hair off a hog, then they would hang it up and let it cool out. Then they would cut it up in quarters. And then next thing they would cut it, the ribs out and then backbone out, and the side, which is bacon, and trim the hams and the shoulders up. And they cut the head and they clean the head, the head and the feet, and they clean those and make hog head sauce. That's about a hog.	45:42
Stacey Scales	And that would be for the family?	46:32
Rosetta Garison Wilson	Yeah. That would be for the family. Right.	46:34
Stacey Scales	Okay.	46:34
Stacey Scales	So—	46:37
Rosetta Garison Wilson	We would sell hogs and our cattle, but for the killing part, we just killed just for what we wanted to eat, the family.	46:38
Stacey Scales	So how would you survive the winter months, in the cold?	46:49
Rosetta Garison Wilson	The meat? Oh, you talking about for heat or such?	46:56
Stacey Scales	The heat and with eating the food.	46:57
Rosetta Garison Wilson	Yeah. Heat, we mostly burn wood. And then some of us burned gas and like that. But way back we couldn't get gas, so we'd burn wood. We cooked with wood and burn wood in the wood heaters, and later on they would get hold of gas, then we could use.	47:00

Stacey Scales	So when did the electric cords finally come in?	0:02
Rosetta Garison Wilson	I remember— Well, at the Fargo school they started, they had their own generator. They made their own electricity. But not a year, I can't remember what year they started that. Made their own electricity.	0:09
Stacey Scales	So what year did you finish at Fargo?	0:27
Rosetta Garison Wilson	In 1939.	0:32
Stacey Scales	Okay. That's great. How did it feel to be a graduate?	0:32
Rosetta Garison Wilson	Oh, I felt good. Yeah, I felt good.	0:45
Stacey Scales	I saw on the pictures one year that all— I think that was '45, that all of the graduates were women.	0:48
Rosetta Garison Wilson	Yeah, uh-huh. Yeah, that's right. Sure was. I remember seeing a picture. That was after I'd finished school, I finished '39. I think some of the first graduates out there were all women too, when it was just four or five women picture might you seen, they were all women, I think. Some of them.	0:57
Stacey Scales	What did you decide to do after you finished high school?	1:26
Rosetta Garison Wilson	That's when I decided to pick up the course being a beautician. Yeah.	1:31
Stacey Scales	In Pine Bluff.	1:39
Rosetta Garison Wilson	Yes.	1:40
Stacey Scales	Was Pine Bluff much different than Brinkley, Fargo?	1:43
Rosetta Garison Wilson	Yeah, lot different.	1:46
Stacey Scales	What was different about it?	1:51
Rosetta Garison Wilson	Well, they had— Well, really they had better schools there for children and there's more places to go to for recreation and such like. And, you know, better more stores and such like, like dress shops and all like that. It's a lot. It's a bigger town. It made a difference.	1:53
Stacey Scales	So you had something to compare it to when you came back?	2:22
Rosetta Garison Wilson	Yes, right.	2:25
Stacey Scales	Did you miss it here?	2:27
Rosetta Garison Wilson	Yeah. Yeah.	2:30
Stacey Scales	Was there a NAACP here when you were growing up?	2:35
Rosetta Garison Wilson	No, not until after I married, we started a chapter here.	2:41
Stacey Scales	About when was that?	2:48
Rosetta Garison Wilson	That had to be around in the '40s I'd say. I don't know, just what year. It was in the '40s.	2:51
Stacey Scales	Were there ever any cases of people being beaten or like lynchings or anything?	3:02
Rosetta Garison Wilson	Not that I knew. Uh-huh, no. There just were a lot of people in jail that weren't supposed to be, but far as beaten and all that, I don't know anything about that.	3:08
Stacey Scales	What would these people be jailed for?	3:21
Rosetta Garison Wilson	Well, a lot of times they would say they stole things, which a lot of them weren't guilty, and they put them in jail. And I don't know where they put any in for rape or anything. I can't remember now, but I know they would steal. And some would kill somebody, murder. I'd say some were in for murder.	3:24
Stacey Scales	Do you know of any cases where innocent people got a charge put on them?	3:54
Rosetta Garison Wilson	Yeah, I believe— seemed like innocent people were killed and I believe some innocent people were in jail because— put charge on them, they were innocent. I don't think some of them were guilty of the charge. I think they had the wrong people.	4:00
Stacey Scales	Were there Black policemen here in the city?	4:26
Rosetta Garison Wilson	Not years ago, but now they have a lot of Black policemen.	4:31
Stacey Scales	So when you were coming up, you never saw—	4:36
Rosetta Garison Wilson	Oh, I didn't see any Black policemen then.	4:39
Stacey Scales	So how did the policemen that were working here, how did they treat the local African-American?	4:43
Rosetta Garison Wilson	Some of them were good and some, you know, kind of— yeah. Prejudice-like.	4:53
Stacey Scales	Did you ever have to face that as a young person?	5:01
Rosetta Garison Wilson	No, I didn't. Uh-uh.	5:04
Stacey Scales	When you were a student at Fargo, did you ever have to leave the school area to get anything you needed or was everything in that area?	5:13
Rosetta Garison Wilson	Needed? Like what?	5:26
Stacey Scales	Shopping or anything like that.	5:29
Rosetta Garison Wilson	Oh, yes. I went shopping at other places. Uh-huh. Forest City.	5:33
Stacey Scales	Oh yes.	5:43
Rosetta Garison Wilson	Yeah. And Little Rock sometimes.	5:46
Stacey Scales	So as far as Fargo and Brinkley is concerned, do you have anything that you feel should be a part of history that you remember about this town area?	5:50
Rosetta Garison Wilson	Well, I just about told about all I know about, what could be.	6:08
Stacey Scales	Okay. I don't have any more questions. Thank you. I enjoyed talking to you.	6:20
Rosetta Garison Wilson	I enjoyed— what little I knew, but I enjoyed answering.	6:23

Item Info

Title:

Rosetta Wilson interview recording, 1995 July 11

Date:

July 11, 1995

Creator:

Wilson, Rosetta Garison

Contributor:

Scales, Mausiki Stacey

Description:

Name: Rosetta Garison Wilson; Date of birth: 1919-10-07; Place of birth: Zent, AR; Occupation(s): beautician; Residence: Brinkley, AR
Informant ID: 1113; Interviewed by: Stacey Scales.

Occupation:

Beautician

Location:

Format:

Language:

English

Digital Collection:

Behind the Veil

Source Collection:

Behind the Veil: Documenting African American Life in the Jim Crow South interviews, photographs, and project records, circa 1864-2011, bulk 1990-2004

Series:

Related Resources:

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Provenance:

The David M. Rubenstein Rare Book and Manuscript Library acquired the Records of the Behind the Veil Oral History Project from the Duke University Center for Documentary Studies in 1997, 1998, 2000, and 2002.

Rights:

Limited Re-Use

CC BY-NC 4.0

Rights Note:

Copyright for content created by the Behind the Veil project is held by Duke University and made available to the public using a Creative Commons Attribution / Non-commercial (CC-BY-NC) license.

Identifier:

RL00170-CS-0352
9f5e8707-0273-4c8e-aa57-20c0947a6e54
behindtheveil
0666c891-6770-4308-94b0-019486c48f32
ark:/87924/r41c25q5t
0666c891-6770-4308-94b0-019486c48f32

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Rosetta Wilson interview recording, 1995 July 11

Transcript

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1. Rosetta Wilson administrative file, 1995

John Hope Franklin Research Center

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John Hope Franklin Research Center

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