Olga Merrick interview recording, 1994 July 02

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Michele Mitchell	For the record, you could just spell your— Okay. Just you not tape if you don't want to.	0:00
Olga Merrick	My name is Olga Merrick, O-L-G-A, Olga. M-E-R-R-I-C-K, Merrick.	0:13
Michele Mitchell	This is July 2nd, correct?	0:22
Olga Merrick	Yes.	0:25
Michele Mitchell	Yes. So Mrs. Merrick, the first question I'm going to ask you is where were you born?	0:25
Olga Merrick	I was born in Thibodaux, Louisiana.	0:31
Michele Mitchell	I think I know how to spell that. Is it T-H-I-B-O-D-E-U— A-U-X?	0:34
Olga Merrick	Yes.	0:41
Michele Mitchell	Okay.	0:44
Olga Merrick	No E.	0:45
Michele Mitchell	Okay. What part of Louisiana is that? Where is that? North?	0:46
Olga Merrick	Southwest.	0:50
Michele Mitchell	Southwest.	0:51
Olga Merrick	It's going west, yes.	0:52
Michele Mitchell	Did you grow up there too?	0:54
Olga Merrick	No, I was only born there and I came back to the city when I was two weeks old and I've been here ever since.	0:55
Michele Mitchell	So which neighborhood did you grow up in?	1:04
Olga Merrick	This one.	1:05
Michele Mitchell	This one?	1:06
Olga Merrick	The Holly Grove area.	1:07
Michele Mitchell	This is Holly Grove?	1:08
Olga Merrick	I've been in this neighborhood since I was eight years old.	1:10
Michele Mitchell	What do you remember about the neighborhood when you were a child? What was it like?	1:16
Olga Merrick	It was a lovely country type neighborhood where all of the neighbors knew each other and we were all one big happy family.	1:19
Michele Mitchell	Was the neighborhood mixed?	1:37
Olga Merrick	Oh yes, we were integrated. It was an integrated neighborhood until around 1967 when the White people began to move out.	1:39
Michele Mitchell	When you were growing up, did you go to school? Did you have to walk far to school? Do you remember favorite things that you used to do in the neighborhood?	1:56
Olga Merrick	I could not walk to school because there was no school in the neighborhood for Colored children. There was the Armadale School, but all White children attended that one. There was an elderly man who had a little jitney we used to call it, who would ride some of us from this neighborhood over to the great town area to a school that's known as Daniel. Then as the years passed, we were older and we were able to get the trolley. We would ride the trolley to whatever school our parents sent us to. I went to Thomy Lafon, which was an all Black school in what's known as the Garden District area. Some years later, the parents of the Holly Grove community petitioned the Orleans Parish School board to put a school in this neighborhood. After many years they did. That school was still a distance from here because it's on the other side of the airline highway. But they did put a school and that school became Paul Laurence Dunbar. It still exists.	2:05
Michele Mitchell	When you were in school, what courses did you take? What was it like?	3:38
Olga Merrick	We took the basic courses, reading, writing, arithmetic, some music, physical education, but it was not as highly developed as it is now. That was about it. Then when you left Thomy Lafon at sixth grade, you went into the junior high. In my case, I went to JW Hoffman, which has now become an elementary school. Then from there to the great McDonough 35, which still exists.	3:47
Michele Mitchell	So you went to McDonough 35?	4:18
Olga Merrick	I certainly did.	4:21
Michele Mitchell	From all the way over here, down to Gerard and Rampart?	4:25
Olga Merrick	We rode the street car and those whose parents didn't have the 7 cents for them to ride the street car there and 7 cents to ride it back, they walked.	4:29
Michele Mitchell	How many miles is that?	4:45
Olga Merrick	I have no idea, but it's not a short distance. But if you wanted to go to school, that's what you did. There were many who did that. In fact, I had to pay car fare to go to JW Hoffman. I never walked to school in the morning, but I would walk back in the evening. Most times after we got to Janois and Washington Avenue, I walked from there back here alone because there was nobody else to come this far back with me. You should have seen it then because it was wilderness. It was wilderness. It wasn't built up like it is now. Fortunately, nobody bothered you and it was very safe.	4:47
Michele Mitchell	So it was a pretty walk, but it was a long walk.	5:43
Olga Merrick	It was a pretty walk. It was a long walk with no sidewalk in many instances, but we made it.	5:46
Michele Mitchell	Did you have to walk? I'm not sure in terms of coming from here, did you have to walk up Rampart Street or how exactly would you get from the street car to school?	6:00
Olga Merrick	Well, luckily I didn't have to walk from McDonough 35. My parents didn't permit that. I was always lucky enough to have car fare. But I walked home from Hoffman School, which was straight up out of Washington Avenue, which was a straight shoot all the way, just about. But I never did walk from McDonough 35. But I do have friends and relatives who did.	6:11
Michele Mitchell	A lot of people have spoken very fondly about the school to me, about McDonough 35, their memories of it. What was the most striking thing for you when you were there?	6:39
Olga Merrick	The most striking thing, and to this day I have never forgotten, was the principal, Lucian B. Alexis. McDonough 35 was at the corner of Rampart and Gerard and Rampart Street was a hangout for our people. Mr. Alexis had such rapport with those people along that way. Everybody along the way protected us, all of us. If anybody appeared like they were going to meddle any of us, somebody always, some Colored man always straightened them out and told them, "That's a McDonough 35 high school girl. Don't bother her." Mr. Alexis, he just was able to rule that street from Canal and Rampart to Gerard and Rampart and nobody ever bothered us.	6:54
Olga Merrick	It was known to be a street where you could get meddled or whatever, and that was the most striking thing. He ruled with an iron hand in many respects. But I still respect it and it still was needed. The boys respected the girls and we were taught and made to respect ourselves and others. To me, it's wonderful memories. We had our— I can't remember what year it was, but we had— I think it was a 75-year celebration and everybody who spoke said the same thing. Mr. Alexis and how he ran that school. He was really an inspiration and we all remember him until this day. He was great.	7:56
Michele Mitchell	That's amazing. He sounds like somebody who really— People told me about drills and marches.	8:52
Olga Merrick	He drilled us, he marched us and we all loved it. We all remember it until this day and we cherish it.	9:02
Michele Mitchell	So the discipline was something that really worked to keep the school together or it just sounds like there was also a lot of space for fun and people just have lots of really fond memories. It's not all discipline.	9:11
Olga Merrick	The matter in which the man handled the school, there was no discipline. We just obeyed and we followed the rules. I don't know if that makes sense.	9:28
Michele Mitchell	That does make sense.	9:38
Olga Merrick	But that is what happened. We didn't have discipline.	9:38
Michele Mitchell	Really?	9:43
Olga Merrick	No. He gave you the rules the first day you came and you followed them. Then you had a different kind of parent in that day and time too. No parent came and challenged him. He told you what the rules were and you either followed them or you couldn't take it. I guess, I don't know for sure that you automatically dropped out because you couldn't hang in there with a different attitude. We all had a good attitude.	9:44
Michele Mitchell	What things when you were in high school would you do for recreation, if any?	10:17
Olga Merrick	We had a little intermural basketball games, not on the scale that we have today. I can't remember very much because I was one of those whose mother didn't permit me to stay for these things, I had to come home. But we had football games and I remember one year we had an excursion from New Orleans to Houston. I never will forget this. We played Jack Yates of Houston, Texas. That was around 1934, '35, somewhere in that time. The whole train was us. When we got to Houston, the people were out there in mass to take us home with them to spend the weekend. We had a marvelous time. That was a big thing in our life at that time.	10:27
Michele Mitchell	You stayed in people's homes and they just welcomed you?	11:22
Olga Merrick	They were at the station to meet us. It was a glorious affair. I've never forgotten that. I think I've been out of high school 60 years now, from '35, 1935 to 1994. I think that's— Because next year we are going to have our 60th celebration, I think it is.	11:26
Michele Mitchell	Then you went to— I just wrote down that you finished high school in 1964, 1935. From there you went to Southern?	11:57
Olga Merrick	Yes.	12:04
Michele Mitchell	Did you find Baton Rouge really different from New Orleans?	12:07
Olga Merrick	You just couldn't make comparisons in that day and time.	12:13
Michele Mitchell	Yeah?	12:18
Olga Merrick	In my opinion.	12:18
Michele Mitchell	How so?	12:18
Olga Merrick	Well, Southern was in what was known as Scotlandville at that time. Of course it has been incorporated into Baton Rouge now. It was a much smaller town and we just did not do things like young people do them today at all. It was as different as night and day. Having come from a close-knit family and neighbors, we didn't have all of the things, the freedom that young people have today where you had your car and you could come and go. I lived in the dormitory at Southern. We had a routine. Breakfast at six, lunch at 12, between 12 and one and supper. We could only go to Baton Rouge on weekends and you had to have permission from your parents and you went shopping at that time. Other than that, you didn't get off that campus. You just stayed on that campus and there wasn't enough activities. It never bothered me and we enjoyed it.	12:20
Michele Mitchell	The community of Scotlandville, you said that you didn't go into Baton Rouge unless it was on the weekend, but did you go into town? Do you know what I mean?	13:38
Olga Merrick	Only those young girls, the boys had more freedom. Only those who had somebody to come and get them or your parents had a friend to pick you up and all of that had been taken care of through correspondence with your parents and the deans and so forth and so on. I stayed there four years and I don't think I went to town 10 times in four years. However, I did have a cousin who was on the faculty there and I could come and go with her whenever I wanted to. But I never wanted to, I was happy.	13:47
Michele Mitchell	So then you finished college around the beginning—	14:27
Olga Merrick	39.	14:29
Michele Mitchell	Yeah. Where did you go from there because you're a teacher?	14:30
Olga Merrick	I came home and started working. Then some years late, I continued to go to summer school every summer for I don't know how many summers. I went to Xavier for many summers. I went to Dillard, I went to Tulane for one or two courses. Then finally I went to Indiana State University in Terry Holt where I got my master's and that was 12 years later.	14:33
Michele Mitchell	So this was Indiana State University?	15:03
Olga Merrick	Mm-hmm, at Terry Holt.	15:07
Michele Mitchell	When did you begin your master's there? What year?	15:09
Olga Merrick	It must have been around '58 and '59. I went to LSU. I was one of those few who integrated LSU when they NAACP finished their business with the integration. That was in '52 and '53.	15:15
Michele Mitchell	Could you tell me a little bit about that, what that was like?	15:40
Olga Merrick	Well, there were about 10 of us, the NAACP said that they were winning these suits and that they didn't have people to go into these schools and integrate at that time. I have a club that I belong to and 10 of us in the club said that we were going to go up there and integrate the dormitories, which we did. There were two or three young men and about seven or eight of us, and we did that. Two, nine week sessions. The first night we were there, they had guards all over the place. Ordinarily, we were kind of afraid, but I'm not the kind of afraid that I'll back off. The first week or two we were there, they had guards all around the dormitory at night for fear, I guess some of the other people would do something, I don't know. But anyway, we didn't have any incidents.	15:48
Olga Merrick	There were individuals who did have some bad experiences in their classes and in various areas of the campus, but they were mostly the men. We stayed there for nine weeks. We made some nice friends. Some of the White people were very, very nice. Some of the professors were very nice. Some were seemingly, they were more afraid than we were, I would say. But generally speaking, it was a nice experience. Some of them stayed and got their masters. I have about four or five friends who stayed and got their masters. I dropped out and then I had to go back. I was married and had a baby. At nine weeks old I left this baby with my husband and my mother and went to Indiana. So that's about all you want to know about that? Ask me some questions and maybe I can answer them.	16:54
Michele Mitchell	Well, I'm wondering that— I'm just thinking that you went there to integrate LSU to do the dormitories. What experiences previously with segregation had you had that would lead you to make that move?	17:48
Olga Merrick	Well, I had grown up in a whole segregated society where we had to sit behind the screen on the street cars. I'm one of those who came along during the time when you had a fountain or a bathroom and you had Colored water, White water, Colored bathroom, White bathroom, the hardest kind of segregation that you have seen in some of these movies that have been shown on television. I came through that. I had the experience of having been seated on the street car and the conductor came to me one day. I was sitting there and I was a girl too, about 12 years old. He said to me, "Nigger, get up and sit in the back and let this White lady sit down." Which I could not do anything about but obey, in which I did.	18:07
Olga Merrick	But I cried because my feelings were hurt, but there wasn't anything I could do. I had had other experiences where we would go to Canal Street and when you got ready to go to the bathroom, you had to come home because there was no bathroom down there. Of course, eventually as years passed, this was taken care of in a few stores, such as Krauss or Marks Issac and FW Woolworth. But other than that, you had to come home to go to the bathroom. I was also one of the victims of having going to the department store and you couldn't fit on a dress. You couldn't fit on a hat.	19:09
Michele Mitchell	Shoes?	19:54
Olga Merrick	I don't remember shoes. I don't remember that, it might have been. These were all humiliating experiences. But my father was a Pullman porter and he had a tremendous amount of experience with traveling. He used to always sit down and tell us how to behave and how to act and don't let it bother you or whatever, because he was going through it every time he got on that train to go from here to California. So that's it. It's a longer story than that, but I'd have to write a book.	19:55
Michele Mitchell	Well, I don't want to press on anything that you don't want to talk about, but—	20:37
Olga Merrick	I have nothing that I don't want to talk about. It really doesn't bother me. I'll tell you anything I know.	20:41
Michele Mitchell	A lot of people have told me about Canal Street in terms of not feeling comfortable there at all, just window shopping and things like that. Were there any other business districts in New Orleans where there were no bathrooms at these Colored bathrooms?	20:48
Olga Merrick	Well, I think that was generally all over the city. But we had— That was generally all over the city. But there was always some store somewhere that had a little outhouse in the back somewhere that you could use in whatever section you were. When I say outhouse, I don't mean actually on a farm or something, but some little place back at a hole in the wall where you could go. We used to call them a hole in the wall. That's what it was.	21:06
Michele Mitchell	Literally.	21:43
Olga Merrick	Literally.	21:44
Michele Mitchell	Were there any, in terms of eating places that you would go to, would you frequent certain places?	21:50
Olga Merrick	Well, in Woolworth they had lunch counters and usually this is 40, 50 years ago or longer, the lunch counter would have seats for the White people. They could sit down and eat. It was an extension of their lunch counter, but you could go to the other end of the lunch counter and buy your hot dog or hamburger, whatever they were selling and stand and eat that and drink whatever you wanted to. That was about it at that time. But other than Woolworth, I can't think of any other store that had a place for us to eat during that time.	21:58
Michele Mitchell	Well, when you would go shopping, was there a store that you felt most comfortable in or did you just avoid shopping?	22:45
Olga Merrick	No, we never avoided shopping. Krauss was one of our favorite places.	22:56
Michele Mitchell	Really?	23:02
Olga Merrick	I still have a lot of respect for Krauss. Maison Blanche was one of our, I would say Maison Blanche was second on our list. Then you had another store that has been gone for a long time. Marks Isaac was like Krauss, you felt comfortable in there.	23:03
Michele Mitchell	Marks?	23:24
Olga Merrick	M-A-R-K-S. I-S-A-A-C, I don't know if it's an S on the end of that word or not now. I guess it was an S on Isaacs. It was a very nice store. Then you had, did I say Sears?	23:24
Michele Mitchell	No.	23:39
Olga Merrick	Sears. You felt comfortable in those places. I tell you, I came from the kind of background that I never felt inferior to going in any place. If I ever felt that I did not go in there. I'm like that until today.	23:41
Michele Mitchell	Well, how did your parents put that into you?	24:00
Olga Merrick	Well, I don't know. They just taught us that we were as good as anybody else. Even though you were segregated against and you couldn't go here and you couldn't go there and you couldn't do this, that and the other, avoid those places go where you know you're wanted and where you feel comfortable. So that's what we did. That's about the best explanation.	24:06
Michele Mitchell	Well, you also said that your father, being a Pullman porter, he would come back and tell you stories. What stories would he tell you?	24:31
Olga Merrick	Let's see, I'll tell you something. Well, there were several places in Texas. My father ran on the railroad from New Orleans to San Francisco. There were several places in Texas that the Pullman porter could not get down off the train and put the box down to help people up like they should do.	24:40
Michele Mitchell	What?	25:12
Olga Merrick	Because they did not permit the Black porters to put their feet on the ground in those places. I remember he told us in one particular place, they had a sign on the outside of the station said, "Nigger read and run. And if you can't read, just run." The conductor who was White always got down there and put the box down and helped the people on in these particular places. They just could not. They did not permit them to get off the train. I'm sorry, I can't remember any of those places now, but he did name them for us at one time.	25:13
Olga Merrick	Then I remember another time he told us a little joke about a little White boy who seemingly fell in love with him on the train or just liked to play with him. The little boy was patting his face and the mother told the little boy, "Stop that and come here." And the little boy said to her, "Why mama, you don't want me to play with him because he's a nigger?" I can't tell you how my daddy reacted. He was the kind to react. But just little things like that, one is enough.	25:59
Michele Mitchell	They couldn't put their feet on the ground?	26:41
Olga Merrick	They could not get off the train in some places. Some places in Texas, they didn't allow Negroes in those towns, period.	26:42
Michele Mitchell	Your mother, did she tell you run? Did she share her experiences with you in a same way?	26:57
Olga Merrick	My mother didn't have those kinds of experiences because she did not work out. My daddy never did want her to work out because he always said he didn't want her to have to experience any of these kinds of things. She came from Thibodaux where there was seven girls and three boys, and the three boys were older. My mother was the knife of 10, 10 children and they overprotected them, all of those girls were. They just stayed in all of the time. They stayed in until they met young men that married them and took them off. So my mother never had any that I can remember, that she told me, any experiences like that.	27:02
Michele Mitchell	Did your father want to protect you in a similar way from experiencing these things?	27:52
Olga Merrick	Yes. When all the other girls were babysitting and making two, $3 a week, he would never let me do it. He didn't want me to do it and he didn't let me do it. He always said, "Whatever I'm able to bring in here for you all, that's what you stay in here and make yourself satisfied and happy with." You just didn't have the kind of teenagers you have today at that time. You didn't rebel. A few but you didn't know anything about it. It's widespread now. It wasn't at that time.	27:57
Michele Mitchell	Well, did you have brothers and sisters?	28:31
Olga Merrick	I had one brother.	28:34
Michele Mitchell	Was he older than you?	28:35
Olga Merrick	Yes, four years between us.	28:36
Michele Mitchell	Did you and he exchange, did you talk about your experiences going to school?	28:41
Olga Merrick	I can't remember that we did. Other than when the family was talking, but my brother didn't have those. We just were not exposed to the harsh experiences of integration because they protected us from it. But I got enough of it.	28:48
Michele Mitchell	Well, I'm sure you got enough of it from telling me about what happened on the street car, I'm sure you got enough of it.	29:13
Olga Merrick	There were other experiences, but that's been a long time. I can't remember all of them now.	29:16
Michele Mitchell	I'm curious, in terms of when you came back to New Orleans after college, did you start teaching then?	29:25
Olga Merrick	Yes. I taught the first day out of school in Bogalusa, Louisiana against my father's wishes, he did not want me to work. He still did not want me to work, but by this time I told him that I wanted to go. I had a cousin who lived in Bogalusa and my mother escorted me to Bogalusa. I'm about 20, 21 years old then. I lived with him and his wife and they saw to it that I got to school every day and I had to come back home every evening for that year. I did not go back the next year. My mother was sick and I took the next year off because I had to stay home with her, there was no choice. I went to commercial school, that same Mr. Alexis, his wife had what was known as straight business college. I went there for two years and received my secretarial credentials. Then I was hired in Orleans Parish right here and I stayed there at home, until I got married.	29:31
Michele Mitchell	Where was your first job in Orleans Parish school system?	30:49
Olga Merrick	Teaching school.	30:53
Michele Mitchell	Where, which school?	30:54
Olga Merrick	Oh, I started at JW Hoffman.	30:55
Michele Mitchell	This has got to be early '40s?	31:01
Olga Merrick	That's around '42 I think. Something like that. I'd like to tell you an experience I had before I got that job.	31:04
Michele Mitchell	Okay, great.	31:13
Olga Merrick	There was an elderly White woman, very elderly named Mrs. Stewart. I had filled in my application for the job and I had gone to Chicago for the summer. When I came back, I went to check on what was my status for getting work for that September. I told her why I was there, they don't remember you. So she said to me, "If you girls would come in here some time and ask for jobs working in our homes, I could hire all of you. But all of you want to teach and we just don't have that many teaching jobs for you girls. You see, we want girls to work in our homes and with our children who have some education, who can read to them and use fairly good grammar and so forth and so on. We just don't have all those jobs."	31:14
Olga Merrick	I will tell you, I've been always kind of fly. I say, "Well, let me tell you something, Mrs. Stewart, my daddy said he sent me to school because he didn't want me working in any White folk's yard. He didn't want my mother to do that. I am not here to get a job to work for any White people with their children. I'm here to get a job teaching school because my daddy said that's what he wants me to do." I up and walked out. About two weeks after that, she called me and gave me that assignment.	32:21
Michele Mitchell	Seriously?	32:56
Olga Merrick	Seriously, seriously. I was surprised. I didn't think that I would ever get a job in this parish with her. But I did get hired, but there weren't that many of us at that time either. That's one experience I had as an adult. I worked at Booker T. Washington Senior High School for a year. The supervisor, who was another person at this time, came to observe my teaching on a Christmas Eve. We used to work a half day on December 24. Out of a class of about 30 girls, I had about five in the class. So I put the chairs in a circle and we were sitting down. I was trying to teach the children because we were in the heart of a project, some nice things to do for their family for Christmas. The particular thing that I had chosen that day was to make a pretty Christmas salad. I had prepared all of my material and we were sitting in this circle. I was telling the girls how to prepare Christmas salads. She came in, she sat, she didn't say anything, she walked out, she didn't say anything.	32:57
Olga Merrick	So about February she came back to a meeting that the department had and we used to have a rating card about the size of a regular report card. There were about five or six items that you were evaluated on. She handed me my rating. She had been to see me one time and she had given me all satisfactory, which was S. I didn't like that because I knew I was better than an S. I looked at the card, I didn't say anything and I gave it back to her. She said, "You're supposed to sign that." I said, "I'm not signing that." There were 24 other Home EC teachers in the room with us at that time. I told her this loud and openly. She said, "Well, you have to sign it." I said, "No, I don't have to sign this because I don't feel that this is justified. You have down here personality, S. Now I know my personality is better than S. I know I'm better than satisfactory." They had on their punctuality as satisfactory.	34:19
Olga Merrick	I said, "And you can't judge me on punctuality as satisfactory, unless you have checked the principal's register to see how my attendance is and how I get here. I've never been tardy, late or absent, and I know I deserve better than satisfactory." She just looks, she didn't say anything. I said, "And you have down here personal appearance. I come here clean every day. I'm well-dressed, I'm not overdressed. When I'm in the cooking lab, I have my uniform and everything that goes with it. You have down here S, satisfactory. Did you check Mr. Crocker on this or the secretary on these things because you are not here every day to see me?" There were two other things that I can't think of them now. I went down the line and I handed her that card back. I haven't signed it until this day and I worked 40 years. I just can't let you do me wrong and take it and smile. That was another instance where I thought I had been dealt a deuce and I should have been dealt at least a king.	35:42
Michele Mitchell	Yes ma'am.	37:09
Olga Merrick	But she didn't say anything. Thank you.	37:11
Michele Mitchell	When you were working, what relationships did you have with other teachers?	37:25
Olga Merrick	Very good. I get along with people very well and people usually like me pretty well. I'm fair. I try to be fair with people. That's it.	37:29
Michele Mitchell	Yeah. After Booker T. Washington—	37:41
Olga Merrick	I went to Albert Wicker School where I stayed there for 10 years. The status of the school changed, we had seventh and eighth grade on the junior high level. They rebuilt the school and they made it K through six and I'm a secondary major. I had to leave there then and go to Priestley Middle School, junior high it was. I stayed there for 27 years and retired.	37:46
Michele Mitchell	If you stayed there for 27 years, did you leave? When did the desegregation of schools in New Orleans start? In the '60s?	38:16
Olga Merrick	Yeah, around '60 something.	38:33
Michele Mitchell	Did that affect you?	38:33
Olga Merrick	Yes.	38:38
Michele Mitchell	How so?	38:39
Olga Merrick	Well, I had, when desegregation came—	38:41
Michele Mitchell	Oh, I was just asking about how desegregation of the schools affected you.	38:47
Olga Merrick	Oh, I was one of those who remained at that school and those teachers who had to be transferred were transferred to White schools. We had the number of vacancies, whatever they were, were White people who came in to desegregate the school. I did nicely and the White teachers had a hard time. They had a hard time because the parents had already taught them if any of those people say anything that you don't like, you do this, you do that and do the other. The children did it. That's when we started losing control. Then on one or two occasions, thugs came in off the street and punched the White teachers and did things like that. Not pinning a rose on myself, but I was always one of those, you could say the children respected me, they liked me. They didn't always like me because I was too hard they said. But they would always come and get me if somebody was beating up a teacher because I was on the third floor. They knew I would come and they would send the children for me, go get Miss Merrick.	38:50
Olga Merrick	Then at one point, the principal pulled me out and had me to go into the various rooms with some of those White teachers who could not discipline. They knew their work and I think they were interested and they wanted to work, but they couldn't discipline and teach. They've always said our children needed a different kind of discipline, which I have never ever understood, and until this day I don't understand why we need a different kind of discipline. I don't know why I don't understand it, but I don't. He had me to go into the rooms with these people and help them with their discipline and different other things that they should do. How to introduce a lesson, how to do this, that and the other, which I did. He took me out for a half year. That's a part of the integration process. Then there was some of those people that I became very good friends with. I don't know, I just become friends with people. I don't look at you because you're Black or White or green and gray.	40:07
Olga Merrick	If you have a nice personality and the kind of person you can approach, I just like you. At the opposite end of the scale, if you're another kind of person, I just let you stay down there and don't bother you. I stayed on my end of the spectrum, that's all. I'm still like that. Do anything I can for anybody. But if you don't want it, I don't want it either. Good or bad, I don't know.	41:22
Michele Mitchell	Before the schools desegregated in the '60s, do you feel that there was an unfair burden placed on you, in terms of teaching modes within a segregated school?	41:56
Olga Merrick	Mm-hmm. There was an unfair burden placed on all of us because we were overloaded. I have known times when I had 140 children in the classroom. There's no way you can teach 140.	42:04
Michele Mitchell	In one classroom?	42:20
Olga Merrick	In one class. That's because the school wasn't large enough. They didn't have enough teachers, they didn't have enough classrooms or whatever. That was an unfair burden, but we did it and we had success. That's true. We did that and we were successful with that. But we didn't have the discipline problems you have today. You had some, but nothing in comparison to today's problems. We worked. I can remember as I was coming up and even after I started teaching, well, we never did see a new book. We always got secondhand books from the White schools because the name of the school was stamped in it, the children's names were in it. Many times we did not have anything that we needed to work with. Everything had to be improvised. Luckily, when we came through college, they taught us that.	42:23
Michele Mitchell	Really?	43:24
Olga Merrick	They taught it to us. That's right.	43:25
Michele Mitchell	That's fascinating.	43:29
Olga Merrick	They taught us how to work with nothing. They don't do that anymore. That's way back between '35 and '39.	43:30
Michele Mitchell	This might be an unfair question, but can you remember, give an example of how they would teach you how to improvise?	43:43
Olga Merrick	Well, number one, all classrooms have a freeze. You know what a freeze is? Decorations around the room.	43:50
Michele Mitchell	Oh, okay. Yeah, okay.	43:58
Olga Merrick	We call that a freeze now. The children had— You see nowadays, the teachers go to some store and buy all of these things. We didn't have any place to go and buy these things. The children had to make all of these things and they made them. We've always had students who were very good in drawing and painting and whatnot, and we didn't even have art teachers. Nowadays, you have art being taught in the schools. The children made everything. They made everything, anything you had to have. Now, some schools still do it, where you get a Christmas tree and the children make these little chains, paper chains and put on the tree, that kind of thing. Nowadays, you buy a tree or some organization will send a tree. We all have organizations that support schools. Well, that's the kind of thing. Does that answer that question?	44:01
Michele Mitchell	Yes, it does.	45:02
Olga Merrick	Whatever you do. Now, you know what else we have always done in New Orleans? We are a big Mardi Gras town. For Mardi Gras, every school used to have a parade, and the children would decorate wagons. The parents would build wagons and put wheels on them for the children. Although the school parade may have been just two or three blocks around the school, the children did all of these. They decorated these wagons and whatnot. Another thing about that, parents used to come in and help you take that over. Some people would do it at their home and bring it to the school for you. This was another way of improvising and the children doing it because they would help their parents at home, anything.	45:03
Olga Merrick	I remember at Priestley, we had a football team and the girls wanted to be majorettes. We were a poor school so the PTA decided that they would buy the material, if the teachers and the parents would volunteer and come to the school and make their majorette costumes. You wouldn't believe the number of parents who have portable machines, brought them to school. There were several teachers who would cut out, others would stitch. Those parents would come in the morning, stay all day and make those majorette costumes. I was in it too. We would stay down in the evenings late. This is what I call improvising and this is the kind of thing that to me, makes for close faculty, parent, child relationship. We—	46:01

Michele Mitchell	— to get things done. And now—	0:02
Olga Merrick	But people don't do that. You don't have that [indistinct 00:00:07]? At the end of the school year, every school had what was known as a culminating activity. And you know we didn't have dance teachers. The teachers taught their own little dances. Because I'm not even a good dancer, and I used to teach my dances. I'd look at the television and copy stuff and write it down and practice it. Well, there was some children who had a little dancing experience. And every class had an activity, and they would have this on the stage. Parents would come, and it was free. Nobody paid for anything. And it was the most, it was just magnificent what the children and the teachers would put together, [indistinct 00:00:53] now.	0:05
Olga Merrick	At one time, I wish somebody else could verify this for you who may have a little bit more knowledge about it than I do, we had a supervisor, a Colored lady, Ms. Lucille Hutton. She's still living. She's about 101 now. She's in a nursing home. And she and Gladys Jones Hill were music people, and they had a culminating activity of all the schools in the city at the municipal auditorium. You didn't pay. Parents brought the costumes, teachers did all the work, manual arts department did all of the building. It was a magnificent— And those were Hollywood productions. And they would go for two nights, and they could have gone for four because all of the parents never did get a chance to see them. We have done some magnificent things in this school system, and I'm speaking of under segregation. Since integration, they have not, we don't have any of that anymore. And these are the things that the children need for various reasons.	0:55
Olga Merrick	Now, at one time, I understand that the White schools had it too, but they tell me I was, well, out of sight. We used to have operettas. And Gladys Jones Hill, who is now deceased; there were many other teachers, she wasn't the only one, she was just the one I worked with; would have operettas. And those were magnificent productions. Anybody you talk to from New Orleans will tell you those were out of sight productions. And they would run for two nights at Booker Washington in that auditorium that they had. Teachers did all of that work. Now, it might have been a burden, but we did it and we enjoyed it. And even until today, you have students who came through at that time still saying they don't have any of the great things they used to have when we had nothing. The less we have, it seems, the better we do.	2:07
Michele Mitchell	So in other words, you don't think that money is the solution to all the problems in school?	3:06
Olga Merrick	Definitely not. Money is not the solution to everything. Some things you can't do without money. But when the children become involved and do things, that's when you get results. That's [indistinct 00:03:31].	3:10
Michele Mitchell	And you taught [indistinct 00:03:34]?	3:32
Olga Merrick	For about 20 years.	3:36
Michele Mitchell	Did you have materials that were suitable to teach in the [indistinct 00:03:42] situation?	3:38
Olga Merrick	Most times. Sometimes, not most times. Sometimes. Well, the children have to buy their own material. And we had some old broken down machines. They were broken down. That's when you were in the— That's until I went to Booker Washington. Booker Washington opened around 1942, and the school board did a nice job of putting materials in there. But that was only one school.	3:43
Michele Mitchell	And oh, there's nothing else related to school. And I've just, I've lost my train of thought.	4:24
Olga Merrick	The boys used to have manual training. They don't have that anymore. That's the worst thing that could happen. We used to have boys taking home ec at one time.	4:35
Michele Mitchell	That's what I wanted to ask you, did you have many boys taking home ec?	4:48
Olga Merrick	Well, there were a few. A few of them wanted it. And what better thing could they take than learning to cook? Because men are your best chefs now. You deprive children when you deny them certain things. [indistinct 00:05:08] you deny them are the thing that they want, maybe.	4:51
Michele Mitchell	Did you teach economy, sort of like how to economize, how to —	5:15
Olga Merrick	Oh yes. In the home ec at Booker Washington, that was taught. We had childcare, family planning, we had— I can't think right now. We had cooking. We had sewing, we had home care. Oh, there were many, many subjects. There was one in particular that I wanted to name for you and it doesn't come to me now, because after that first few years that I taught home economics, I went into reading and English. I have taught everything. Science, vocational guidance, I've taught all of it.	5:20
Michele Mitchell	You've taught all those subjects?	6:05
Olga Merrick	Not at one time.	6:07
Michele Mitchell	But I mean just throughout your career?	6:08
Olga Merrick	And more.	6:11
Michele Mitchell	And you said that you had a daughter born in the fifties?	6:17
Olga Merrick	She was born in '59. And when she went to school, I sent her to Lafayette School right over there on Carrollton and Wamsley, and she integrated that school.	6:21
Michele Mitchell	Were you nervous?	6:36
Olga Merrick	No, she was the kind that could take that, live with it, be happy, and it didn't bother her. It didn't bother her at all. There was one little Colored boy in her class with her, and she went over there— And see, I've taught her from the beginning, be nice to your teacher and she'll be nice to you. And whether the teacher would eat it or not, I don't know. But I always let her take her teacher something, an apple nice and washed and polished. She had a birthday party, I sent her teacher a piece of cake. It didn't bother me what the teacher did with it. I was teaching her. That was the important thing in my life and her life.	6:41
Olga Merrick	But luckily, her teacher liked her, and she did very, very, very well. She stayed in that school until she finished sixth grade. And all along the way, she's done well. She has a nice mind. And when she finished sixth grade, the principal had retired, she was an old lady, and she ran that school. She was a White. The faculty was just about all White then, and there were a few Colored teachers in there. And we sent her an invitation to let her know that Sheri, because she knew Sheri and Tony Hoover and Lizelle and a few others had integrated that school.	7:36
Olga Merrick	And she didn't take any foolishness. She demanded that those teachers treat those children like they treated all of the other children, which was good because I don't know that they would or that they wouldn't have, never even bothered to find out. My husband was president of the dad's club, treasurer for the dad's club. When Christmas came, Sheri was the first one to say, "My daddy go pick up the Christmas trees." And her daddy, he has a truck, would go pick up the Christmas tree for the teacher, go back and put up. See, I believe in a two way street. And it works. It's not a one way street for us or for them.	8:20
Michele Mitchell	No, no. And your daughter really had more or less a positive experience?	9:03
Olga Merrick	Beautiful. Beautiful. She came home one day and she said to me and her daddy, "Mama," she called the child's name, which I don't remember, "So-and-so met me in the hall today and pushed me on the shoulder and pushed me around and said, 'Do you know you are a little Colored girl?'" Sheri said, "I'm not a little Colored girl. Oh yes you are," Sheri said, "I'm not a little Colored girl." We never used the word nigger in here, we never used the word Negro, we just used people. And Sheri did not know she was a little Colored girl. We didn't teach Color; Black, White, green or gray people.	9:09
Olga Merrick	So I said to her, I said, "Did you tell Ms. Cupid?" She said, "Yes." I said, "Well, what did Ms. Cupid say?" She said, Ms. Cupid told her, don't say things to people that are not nice. And I said, "Okay, time for this lesson. Sit down." And I said to her, I said, "Now, I'm going to say something to you that I've never said to you before, but Ms. Cupid, your teacher was not right. She did not do the right thing today." I said, "But this is just between us. It stays in this house. And she wasn't right, because when the little girl called you a little Colored girl, you are a little Colored girl. And when Ms. Cupid told her, don't say anything to people that's not nice. There wasn't anything wrong with being a little Colored girl." Because she fell out. "Mom, I'm not little Colored girl," she didn't want to be a little Colored girl. But we got that over to her and she got over it.	9:53
Olga Merrick	But you just don't teach those things. I had my little nephew. For 16 months he came to visit me and he was sick, he was from Detroit. And we said something about the Colored people one day. See, we didn't use African-American and all of that then. Or he heard somebody say the Colored people. I don't know where he got it from. So he came home. He said, "Auntie," I said, "What?" He said, "Who are the Colored people. do they grow in the garden?" We just have never taught that. We cracked up. Do they grow in the garden? Well, I explained to him what the Colored people were. Now he came from Detroit where he had gone to integrated schools and whatnot. But I guess that's just the way we teach our children. I don't know.	11:00
Michele Mitchell	Do you remember the first time that you realized that you were Colored? Do you remember that for yourself?	11:55
Olga Merrick	Oh, it looks like I've always been Colored and I've always known it. I don't know. Different day and time, you see. And then my daddy always came home and told little things. See from little children, we have heard my daddy's little tales from the train. And we've heard the word nigger, but we never did use it. And we've always heard the word Negro, but that's the way that was. No, I can't remember that. I don't know how it came about. But people didn't use those words then. We were just Colored people. We were Colored people at that time. We've come through something. Yes, we've been a little bit of everything. When are you young people going to decide what we really are?	12:02
Michele Mitchell	Jesse Jackson decided that we were African-American, not me.	12:50
Olga Merrick	Well, I don't mind being whatever. Just stick to one thing so we won't get so mixed up among ourselves. Right?	12:52
Michele Mitchell	Oh, okay. The last few questions I have are basically just about a family history, and then that's it.	13:08
Olga Merrick	Anything you want to know.	13:22
Michele Mitchell	You said that you were 76. Well, I can't believe that. When were you born? What day?	13:23
Olga Merrick	June the 20th. I just made 76 last month. June the 20th, 1918.	13:28
Michele Mitchell	And your middle name, ma'am?	13:38
Olga Merrick	My middle name or my maiden name?	13:42
Michele Mitchell	Both.	13:44
Olga Merrick	My middle name is Greta, G-R-E-T-A. And my maiden name is Frank, F-R-A-N-K. I usually use my maiden name for my middle name now.	13:44
Michele Mitchell	So in terms of how you would want your name to appear in written materials you would like, Olga Frank Merrick. And now a couple questions. You're married now?	13:59
Olga Merrick	44 years.	14:26
Michele Mitchell	44 years. And your husband's name?	14:27
Olga Merrick	Joseph Bernard.	14:30
Michele Mitchell	And you said that he was born, you told me the town that he was born	14:37
Olga Merrick	In. Clinton, C-L-I-N-T-O-N. Clinton, Louisiana.	14:40
Michele Mitchell	And when was he born?	14:48
Olga Merrick	November the 21st, I think, 1918.	14:49
Michele Mitchell	And your husband's occupation?	14:55
Olga Merrick	Building contractor.	14:58
Michele Mitchell	Does he like living in New Orleans?	15:05
Olga Merrick	Oh yes.	15:05
Michele Mitchell	Yeah?	15:05
Olga Merrick	Oh yes. He said once he got from Clinton— Clinton is way out in the woods. Real, real rural. And he said once he got to New Orleans and saw the lights, he knew he was never going back.	15:06
Michele Mitchell	When did he move here?	15:21
Olga Merrick	Oh, way before— He used to come here to visit with his mother's sisters before World War II. I don't know what the year, but he has been coming and going through the years.	15:22
Michele Mitchell	Did he fight in the war?	15:36
Olga Merrick	He went to the European Theater, whether he was in active as much as he had said, I don't think— He was always behind the lines with the ones who were bringing up the ammunition, delivering to the other people, I think.	15:39
Michele Mitchell	And then you met him here after the war?	15:57
Olga Merrick	Yes.	16:00
Michele Mitchell	Yeah. Do you remember sort of nice things that you used to do in terms of going out or?	16:02
Olga Merrick	Oh, we used to live at the football games.	16:09
Michele Mitchell	Yes.	16:11
Olga Merrick	Theaters. Wasn't much to do. And then you couldn't waste your money like that. We went to some nightclub, some plays and things like that. We've done the whole gamut of what you can do with the resources you have.	16:13
Michele Mitchell	Did you have a favorite nightclub?	16:28
Olga Merrick	Not really, no.	16:32
Michele Mitchell	I'm just curious.	16:36
Olga Merrick	Just now and then we would go, if somebody would come to town, some celebrity, and we wanted to. I remember, I can't think of this, [indistinct 00:16:47] White band and we wanted to hear that. And we went to Booker Washington to the concert, things like that, you know?	16:37
Michele Mitchell	Yeah. And your mother's name?	16:56
Olga Merrick	Maud. M-A-U-D. Dickerson Frank	16:57
Michele Mitchell	Dickerson's your maiden name?	17:03
Olga Merrick	Yes.	17:05
Michele Mitchell	And does she have a middle name?	17:09
Olga Merrick	Well, her middle name was Leona, but I gave you Dickerson, but you can put what you want there.	17:12
Michele Mitchell	You said that she was born in [indistinct 00:17:20]. Put that in her date of birth. Do you remember when she was born?	17:19
Olga Merrick	No, I sure don't. I don't think she did. We put her death at 81 when she died. But during those times, all of the birth records were kept in the Bible, in the church. And it burned down with all of their ages, birth dates in it. Now, I have her marriage license, I have my grandmother's license. I have my mother's marriage license back there on the wall. And I think my mother was about 18 when she married. I'm thinking that's what she told me. And we could figure it out if it's important.	17:30
Michele Mitchell	Oh, well, it's just—	18:08
Olga Merrick	I can tell you when my— No, I'll tell you when my grandmother got married. Not when she was born.	18:11
Michele Mitchell	Your mother got married in what year?	18:18
Olga Merrick	1913, I think.	18:20
Michele Mitchell	So that means that she was born maybe around 1895.	18:24
Olga Merrick	Could be. She was 81. Supposed to be 81 when she died.	18:28
Michele Mitchell	And your father's name?	18:34
Olga Merrick	Clarence. He didn't have a middle name. Frank—	18:35
Michele Mitchell	I don't either.	18:39
Olga Merrick	Huh?	18:39
Michele Mitchell	I don't either.	18:41
Olga Merrick	Oh, no?	18:41
Michele Mitchell	No, ma'am. And your father, was he born in [indistinct 00:18:47] too?	18:41
Olga Merrick	No, he was born in Belliliance. B-E-L-L-I-L-I-A-N-C-E, Belliliance, Louisiana. That's about five or six miles out of Donaldsonville, little hole in the road.	18:47
Michele Mitchell	Okay. And do both of your parents work?	19:03
Olga Merrick	Work? No. My father worked. My mother didn't work.	19:05
Michele Mitchell	And what did your father do?	19:08
Olga Merrick	[indistinct 00:19:11] porter.	19:09
Michele Mitchell	You told me all of this.	19:12
Olga Merrick	That's all right.	19:14
Michele Mitchell	You told me those. I'm sorry. You told me that great story and I just totally— That one, we have to get four. You had one brother who was older.	19:19
Olga Merrick	Clarence, I think he was born August the fourth, 1914 or something like that.	19:28
Michele Mitchell	Here in New [indistinct 00:19:41] or New Orleans?	19:39
Olga Merrick	New Orleans.	19:42
Michele Mitchell	And your daughter's name?	19:49
Olga Merrick	Sheri, S-H-E-R-I. Middle name Ann Merrick Rogers. R-O-D-G-E-R-S.	19:51
Michele Mitchell	And she's going on 59. In which month?	20:07
Olga Merrick	May 16.	20:14
Michele Mitchell	Any grandbabies yet?	20:19
Olga Merrick	No. They say they can't afford any.	20:21
Michele Mitchell	Well, I know. Yeah, that's the way that goes. Children are expensive.	20:23
Olga Merrick	Well, out there where they live, they would have to pay eight to $900 a month for somebody to keep the child while they work. She said, why I work to pay somebody to keep the baby? Mama, if I can't stay home and keep the baby, I just as well keep working. That's what they say. I didn't say that. You have that machine on?	20:28
Michele Mitchell	Yeah, I do. And then you told me that you grew up in the Holly Grove area. When you and your husband first got married, did you move into this house?	20:47
Olga Merrick	No, we were around the corner. We lived around the corner for 12 years, and then we moved in here.	20:58
Michele Mitchell	Okay. So the first house was on—	21:02
Olga Merrick	4133 Holly Grove Street. Just one block down around the corner?	21:06
Michele Mitchell	Yeah, literally just— Yeah. And is the house where you grew up still standing?	21:14
Olga Merrick	Yes. That was my parents' original house, I've sold at now.	21:19
Michele Mitchell	And where's that house?	21:23
Olga Merrick	Around the corner, right around here. 4133.	21:23
Michele Mitchell	It is 4133?	21:29
Olga Merrick	That's the house. That was my parents' house, but they were not living in there. And we lived in there when we first got married. They were living on Eagle Street, the other street over.	21:31
Michele Mitchell	So it's just real nice and close,	21:49
Olga Merrick	Just moving from one corner to the other.	21:52
Michele Mitchell	My father was in the Air Force and we always moved around a lot. And I've never had an opportunity to be in a community like that. So that's kind of nice. And the last couple things I would like to ask you is if you would like to tell me about any special awards or honors or offices in terms of the activities that you do that are important to you that you'd like to go on record?	21:55
Olga Merrick	Well, I don't know. I organized the Holly Grove Improvement Organization, a community organization, in 1967, to hopefully improve the life of our people in this community. I've done a lot of volunteer work, community work, and city work for both of our mayors. I've done a lot of stuff. But—	22:21
Michele Mitchell	When you say both of our mayors, you referring to [indistinct 00:22:55] and Bartholomew?	22:52
Olga Merrick	Well, no, it was longer. That goes back to Mark's daddy, Dutch [indistinct 00:23:03]. I really started with Mayor Landrew. Because it was Landrew, Dutch, Bartholomew, and then little Mark. I'm a member of Delta Sigma Theta, if that's important. I used to be active. I'm not as active anymore, I'm a bench member now. It's time for the young people to take over.	22:56
Michele Mitchell	Any other organizations?	23:32
Olga Merrick	Oh goodness. I have belonged to plenty of things, but I don't belong to any of those things anymore. I'm what you call a dues paying member to these things now. I belong to Central Congregational United Church of Christ. I'm a Deacon in the church. I sing in the choir. I've been singing in since I was knee high to a duck.	23:34
Michele Mitchell	Yeah? So you sing in the choir, and it's Central—	23:59
Olga Merrick	Congregational United Church of Christ. Nothing but a congregational church.	24:03
Michele Mitchell	Is there any, like one last thing that you'd like to say?	24:21
Olga Merrick	Years ago I was president of the Southern University alumni here. That was a long time ago. That's in the history books now.	24:25
Michele Mitchell	Well, unless you'd like to depart with some sort of words of wisdom, we're done.	24:43
Olga Merrick	Do all the good you can to all the people you can in all the ways you can. That's about it.	24:50
Michele Mitchell	Thank you, Mrs. Merrick.	25:00
Olga Merrick	I could show you some of these things that are on the wall probably, but that's about—	25:01

Item Info

Title:

Olga Merrick interview recording, 1994 July 02

Date:

July 2, 1994

Creator:

Merrick, Olga Frank

Contributor:

Mitchell, Michele

Description:

Name: Olga Frank Merrick; Date of birth: 1918-06-20; Place of birth: Thibodaux, LA; Occupation(s): educator; Residence: New Orleans, LA
Informant ID: 563; Interviewed by: Michelle Mitchell.

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Educator

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Language:

English

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Behind the Veil

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Behind the Veil: Documenting African American Life in the Jim Crow South interviews, photographs, and project records, circa 1864-2011, bulk 1990-2004

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The David M. Rubenstein Rare Book and Manuscript Library acquired the Records of the Behind the Veil Oral History Project from the Duke University Center for Documentary Studies in 1997, 1998, 2000, and 2002.

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Copyright for content created by the Behind the Veil project is held by Duke University and made available to the public using a Creative Commons Attribution / Non-commercial (CC-BY-NC) license.

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behindtheveil
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Olga Merrick interview recording, 1994 July 02

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1. Olga Merrick administrative file, 1994

John Hope Franklin Research Center

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