Germaine Poche Smith interview recording, 1994 August 06
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| Felix Armfield | Today is August the 6th, 1994. My name is Felix Armfield and I'm the interviewer. And I'm about to interview Mrs. Germain Poché Smith at 3400 St. Anthony Avenue, where she lives at apartment number 325, here in New Orleans, Louisiana. Ms. Smith, would you state your full name for the record, please? | 0:04 |
| Germaine Smith | My name is Jermaine Augusta Porsche Viltz Smith. | 0:32 |
| Felix Armfield | Okay. And Ms. Smith, how long have you lived here in New Orleans? | 0:38 |
| Germaine Smith | Practically all of the 76 years, which I am that age now. | 0:44 |
| Felix Armfield | Okay. So, for the most part, New Orleans was where you were born and raised? | 0:52 |
| Germaine Smith | Right. | 0:52 |
| Felix Armfield | Okay. Where in the town did you grow up on here in New Orleans? | 0:55 |
| Germaine Smith | Actually, I was born in a suburb. I was born in Convent, Louisiana, which is 61 miles from New Orleans, in St. James Parish. | 1:02 |
| Felix Armfield | Okay. | 1:16 |
| Germaine Smith | Before the Airline Highway was built, one had to pass through Convent, Louisiana to get to Baton Rouge. After the Airline Highway was built, you no longer have to pass at River Road. | 1:18 |
| Felix Armfield | Okay. And what do you recall your parents having done when you were a youngster growing up here? | 1:32 |
| Germaine Smith | In regard to? | 1:44 |
| Felix Armfield | What did they do for a living? | 1:46 |
| Germaine Smith | Oh. My grandparents, so far as I recall, were just ordinary farmers. You might say they raised what they needed for their own families. I think they called them truck farmers. They raised fruit, vegetables and cattle and what have you. And my father, as I can recall, was not able to survive, because we were seven children in the family. So, during the time of the sugarcane harvest, my father had to go elsewhere, to what they call the sugarcane grinding, where they ground the sugar cane and they— | 1:47 |
| Felix Armfield | Southwest Louisiana someplace? | 2:38 |
| Germaine Smith | Garyville is a place I recall him having said. I don't recall that that was Southwest. That wasn't too far from Convent, Louisiana, in St. James Parish. | 2:41 |
| Felix Armfield | Okay. Okay. | 2:54 |
| Germaine Smith | And he went where the sugar cane was refined into— The juice was refined into sugar, and he worked that way a certain portion of the year to earn money to provide for the family. Other than that, my father was a carpenter and whatever else he did other than just raising crop to feed the family, I don't know too much of any employment in the rural area. | 2:54 |
| Felix Armfield | Okay. Now what did your mother do? | 3:24 |
| Germaine Smith | My mother was just a housewife. | 3:26 |
| Felix Armfield | Okay. | 3:29 |
| Germaine Smith | She had nine children. She lost her first two and she reared seven. I'm the last of the group and only two of us survive. A sister Josephine, who is 89. I'm 76. I'm the youngest of the group, and we are the last survivors. | 3:29 |
| Felix Armfield | Okay. What was life like there in that Convent community? What are some of your first or earliest impressions of the area that you lived? | 3:47 |
| Germaine Smith | I recall that my grandparents, who were my mother's parents, owned their own property. And we lived right two doors from the courthouse, and to the other side, two doors from the post office. I recall my grandfather having served on the police jury. We had not too many problems there. If so, I didn't know about them. We all belonged to the Catholic Church. I didn't know there was any other church. Maybe there was at that time, but I was not really informed of another church other than St. Michael's Catholic Church, which still stands. My mother was married there. All of her children were baptized there, and we all attended church services there. | 4:03 |
| Felix Armfield | At, what was the name? | 5:01 |
| Germaine Smith | The name of the church is St. Michaels. St. Michaels, M-I-C-H-A-E-L-S. In French, they call it Ste Michelle, but it was St. Michaels in English. All the people out there spoke French. I grew up speaking English because of the fact that my mother said everyone spoke French. My grandfather couldn't speak English. My maternal grandparents could not speak English until we were grown. But my mother thought that it was the style to teach the children American. As a result, I was taught English in my early days and my grandparents spoke French always. | 5:03 |
| Felix Armfield | So, therefore you grew up speaking English and some French? | 5:47 |
| Germaine Smith | Definitely. I still have some French expressions that I use, however people don't understand them. But it's just commonplace for me to say these words because the words that I know express my feeling at the time. And I'm well known for that. I majored in elementary education in college. I minored in French. And I must say that my mother passed the majority of the French that I had to study. I studied the history of French literature. I had to read novels that were written in French. I recall La Belle Nivernaise. | 5:52 |
| Felix Armfield | Now, what is that? | 6:33 |
| Germaine Smith | A French novel. I could not tell you what it was about now. My mother read it. She interpreted it. I had to give the resume. I passed. That was a history of French literature. That was a book in French literature. Very, very well known. La Belle Nivernaise. There was another one called Maria Chapdelaine. That was a French novel and I could not tell you now what it's all about. My mother read it and she gave me the resume and she told me the gist of the story. And there was one other one. Maria Chapdelaine, La Belle Nivernaise, and La Romance de la Rose. | 6:38 |
| Felix Armfield | Now, what do those titles mean? | 7:22 |
| Germaine Smith | Well— | 7:26 |
| Felix Armfield | Do you know what the meaning— | 7:26 |
| Germaine Smith | Frankly, I don't have a— La Romance de la Rose had to do with either a flower because la rose is a flower. LaRose, Rose is other, her name. My mother's name was Rose. So, Rose in French is English Rose. | 7:32 |
| Felix Armfield | Okay. | 7:46 |
| Germaine Smith | Maria Chapdelaine, it had to do with a lady named Maria. Evidently her last name was Chapdelaine. I don't remember the story at all. | 7:49 |
| Felix Armfield | Okay. | 7:55 |
| Germaine Smith | And La Belle Nivernaise, I wish I could find the book again because I'd like to read it. | 8:00 |
| Felix Armfield | Okay. | 8:02 |
| Germaine Smith | I don't recall. | 8:03 |
| Felix Armfield | Do you think if you picked it up you'd understand? | 8:04 |
| Germaine Smith | I'm sure. I'm sure. | 8:06 |
| Felix Armfield | Okay. | 8:06 |
| Germaine Smith | I'm sure. | 8:06 |
| Felix Armfield | Okay. | 8:06 |
| Germaine Smith | Because my grandparents spoke French at all times. | 8:12 |
| Felix Armfield | Constantly speaking— | 8:16 |
| Germaine Smith | At all times. At all times. | 8:17 |
| Felix Armfield | So, a wonderful Sunday dinner at Grandma and Grandfather's house. You had to know French because— | 8:19 |
| Germaine Smith | You had to. | 8:20 |
| Felix Armfield | To communicate. | 8:20 |
| Germaine Smith | You had to. And then I taught school in a rural area where the people spoke the Cajun French. | 8:28 |
| Felix Armfield | Okay. Okay. | 8:32 |
| Germaine Smith | Oh, I could understand them. I could communicate because some of the words are similar. I believe that my father spoke a patois or a broken French. My mother spoke, read, the Parisian French. That's why she could read everything I had to study when I got in college, because she knew and she could give me the translation that I never could have translated on my own, just having read the story. | 8:35 |
| Felix Armfield | Now, was that commonplace when you grew up, that it was typical that people here in Louisiana were still speaking French? | 9:13 |
| Germaine Smith | Yes. Because of the fact I lived in Convent Valley, Louisiana. | 9:23 |
| Felix Armfield | And that is spelled C-O-N-V-E-N-T? | 9:28 |
| Germaine Smith | Right. | 9:32 |
| Felix Armfield | Okay. | 9:32 |
| Germaine Smith | And the people there all spoke French. I lived there, we moved to New Orleans when I was about five years of age, but every summer, as long as my maternal grandparents were living there, I was sent there to be of help to them during the summer vacation. | 9:33 |
| Felix Armfield | Okay. Even after the family moved into New Orleans? | 9:54 |
| Germaine Smith | Oh, yes. The grandparents did not move right away. | 9:56 |
| Felix Armfield | Okay. | 10:03 |
| Germaine Smith | They remained in the Convent. | 10:03 |
| Felix Armfield | Now, when were you born there in Convent? | 10:03 |
| Germaine Smith | 1917? August 8th, 1917. | 10:04 |
| Felix Armfield | You have a birthday coming up soon. | 10:05 |
| Germaine Smith | All right. Right. | 10:14 |
| Felix Armfield | Had you forgotten? | 10:14 |
| Germaine Smith | Almost. Almost. | 10:14 |
| Felix Armfield | I'm sure someone would have reminded you. So when you went out in the summer to stay with them, you had to be strictly French. | 10:19 |
| Germaine Smith | Well, really, at— | 10:25 |
| Felix Armfield | At least at the house. | 10:26 |
| Germaine Smith | Really. I had to understand them. And my grandmother was trying to help me to understand French, because I could pronounce some of the words, but they used to have a newspaper called the St. James Voice, and they spoke of the people there. It was not written in French, but I could not pronounce all of those French names. So, when I would try to pronounce them, I knew I was not correct, but my grandmother could decipher what. For an example, there were names like LeBourgeois. I didn't know how to say that. I would say something else. Melancan. | 10:28 |
| Felix Armfield | And what is Melancan? | 11:09 |
| Germaine Smith | Well, it is a French name, but I found out in later years some people in Los Angeles who have the same name have changed it to Melancan. M-E-L-A-N-C-A-N. M-E-L-C-O-N. But that is not— Melancan is pronounced Melancan. | 11:15 |
| Felix Armfield | How would— | 11:31 |
| Germaine Smith | The same way. | 11:32 |
| Felix Armfield | The same way. | 11:32 |
| Germaine Smith | But it's pronounced differently. | 11:34 |
| Felix Armfield | Melancan. | 11:39 |
| Germaine Smith | Melancan. And that C has a cedilla underneath it, Melançan, to make the C sound like an S. | 11:40 |
| Felix Armfield | Okay. Melançan. | 11:51 |
| Germaine Smith | Melançan. And LeBourgeois, L-E-capital-B-O-U-R-G-E-O-I-S. I could not call that name. | 11:52 |
| Felix Armfield | LeBourgeois. | 12:02 |
| Germaine Smith | LeBourgeois. Right. | 12:03 |
| Felix Armfield | LeBourgeois. | 12:03 |
| Germaine Smith | LeBourgeois. | 12:05 |
| Felix Armfield | And what does that mean? | 12:05 |
| Germaine Smith | Frankly, I don't know. | 12:07 |
| Felix Armfield | Okay. | 12:07 |
| Germaine Smith | I just know that was a family name of a group. | 12:09 |
| Felix Armfield | Because this word has been incorporated into the English language. | 12:11 |
| Germaine Smith | Evidently. | 12:12 |
| Felix Armfield | And you pronounce it the bourgeois. | 12:16 |
| Germaine Smith | Right, right. And there were other names. My mother's name was Rose Dugas, spelled D-U-G-A-S. My father's name was Paul Poché, spelled P-O-C-H-É with the accent aigu to make that E sound like an A. So, my father was a Poché. My mother was a Dugas. My father was one of six brothers and one sister. His sister was a Poché. She married a Dugas. My mother was a Dugas and married a Poché. | 12:18 |
| Felix Armfield | Now how are we spelling Dugas? | 13:00 |
| Germaine Smith | D-U-G-A-S. You don't pronounce the S. | 13:04 |
| Felix Armfield | D-U-G-A-S. | 13:07 |
| Germaine Smith | Dugas. | 13:07 |
| Felix Armfield | Dugas. | 13:07 |
| Germaine Smith | Right. | 13:07 |
| Felix Armfield | Dugas. Well, you certainly have a French accent. | 13:14 |
| Germaine Smith | Not really. | 13:15 |
| Felix Armfield | Oh yeah, you do. | 13:15 |
| Germaine Smith | I've lost it. | 13:15 |
| Felix Armfield | But you certainly to me. | 13:15 |
| Germaine Smith | I can pronounce the words. | 13:15 |
| Felix Armfield | You're putting the pronunciations where the accents, where they need to be. | 13:23 |
| Germaine Smith | I know. | 13:25 |
| Felix Armfield | So, clearly you come from a heavy French background. | 13:25 |
| Germaine Smith | I do. | 13:25 |
| Felix Armfield | Yeah. Clearly. Were you about to say something? | 13:25 |
| Germaine Smith | I was about to say that, let's go back to how we lived with the Blacks and the Whites. | 13:39 |
| Felix Armfield | Okay. | 13:45 |
| Germaine Smith | Is that good? | 13:46 |
| Felix Armfield | That's wonderful. | 13:47 |
| Germaine Smith | In the church there, the Catholic Church, which I said there were other churches probably that I didn't know about, we were not segregated in the churches. What happened there, you paid what was called pew rent, P-E-W. So, when you paid the rent for your pew, that meant your family sat there the whole year. So, it was according to when you paid your rent. And if you paid it on time, you had the same pew from year to year to year. So, I didn't call that segregating people because no matter what your family was in this seat, another family was in another seat, the whole pew. Because the people out there more or less had large families. And so, we utilized the entire pew on a Sunday or other days for our church services. | 13:48 |
| Felix Armfield | And the church services were not segregated? | 14:45 |
| Germaine Smith | Oh, no, no. My grandfather was a member of the police jury. He was— | 14:52 |
| Felix Armfield | A jury. | 14:57 |
| Germaine Smith | Right. I don't know if there were any other Blacks. But it was hard to tell whether he was Black or White, but everybody knew what he was. | 14:58 |
| Felix Armfield | So your grandfather, he looked— | 15:06 |
| Germaine Smith | Definitely, definitely. | 15:06 |
| Felix Armfield | He could pass for a White man if he wanted to. | 15:10 |
| Germaine Smith | If he wanted to. But they knew better. And he didn't have to pass. He was a very intelligent person. I don't think he had a lot of education. | 15:11 |
| Felix Armfield | But it wasn't his intention— | 15:18 |
| Germaine Smith | Whatever. | 15:19 |
| Felix Armfield | — to pass. He knew who he was. | 15:20 |
| Germaine Smith | Right, where the younger ones in some of my family did pass— | 15:23 |
| Felix Armfield | Oh really? | 15:26 |
| Germaine Smith | — the color line. For what— | 15:26 |
| Felix Armfield | You have family members who in fact passed and | 15:29 |
| Germaine Smith | Right. | 15:32 |
| Felix Armfield | — never looked back. | 15:32 |
| Germaine Smith | No, they didn't come back when their parents died, even, because they didn't want to admit they were Black. | 15:33 |
| Felix Armfield | So, you've got some relatives walking around out there that are now saying they are White, when in fact that they've got the bloodline, enough bloodline— | 15:40 |
| Germaine Smith | Definitely. | 15:44 |
| Felix Armfield | — to do their thing. | 15:44 |
| Germaine Smith | They won't even come back for inheritance purposes. | 15:50 |
| Felix Armfield | So, you've lost communication with them? | 15:53 |
| Germaine Smith | Well, I did a sort of a family tree. Oh, years ago, I started it, and I've tried to update it. So I have contacted the majority of them, I'd say, from the first checker up to the third generation. Other than that, I can't go in. I can't really locate the others. | 15:53 |
| Felix Armfield | Well, for the most part, are you saying, there are some of the people who, in your generation and your age bracket, pass for White? | 16:17 |
| Germaine Smith | Definitely. Right. And still are. | 16:25 |
| Felix Armfield | And still are? | 16:34 |
| Germaine Smith | Oh, yes. | 16:35 |
| Felix Armfield | They wouldn't dare want to run into you. | 16:36 |
| Germaine Smith | They wouldn't want their children to know any better. | 16:37 |
| Felix Armfield | Really? | 16:42 |
| Germaine Smith | Oh, no. | 16:42 |
| Felix Armfield | They wouldn't want to run into you either, huh? | 16:42 |
| Germaine Smith | Well, no, they don't need to. But I have communicated with some on a kind of property in Convent. | 16:44 |
| Felix Armfield | Oh, really? | 16:51 |
| Germaine Smith | Yes. | 16:52 |
| Felix Armfield | So, you've communicated with them about family matters that was still going on? | 16:53 |
| Germaine Smith | Right. | 16:56 |
| Felix Armfield | And it's clear that they are passing for White. | 16:57 |
| Germaine Smith | Right. | 16:59 |
| Felix Armfield | And what kind of response, what kind of reactions did you get? | 17:02 |
| Germaine Smith | Well, some of them were into it for the money involved, and others didn't care. Our first cousin, whose parents died out in Convent, did not return because he had gone away from here and passed. And he did not want it known that he was Black. So he did not return when his mother nor his father died. | 17:05 |
| Felix Armfield | And these are first cousins? | 17:31 |
| Germaine Smith | First cousins, there. I'm speaking about my mother's brother's children. | 17:33 |
| Felix Armfield | Now, did any of your brothers and sisters pass? | 17:39 |
| Germaine Smith | Oh, no. No. None of mine. My mother and father were for education. And these others, some of them were, and some of them were not. So, I'm happy that my mother and father moved from the country to come to New Orleans so we could all benefit from the education here. They only went as far as eighth grade in Convent. And White Sisters from France operated a school in Convent. The name Convent, I believe, came from the fact that some sisters called the Sisters of the Sacred Heart had a convent there, that they educated very wealthy white girls who boarded there. | 17:43 |
| Germaine Smith | And they had a day of school for Whites and Blacks, which were separated only by a fence. And that's where my sisters and brothers who were older than I went to school. After eighth grade, you could go no further. So, my parents decided to come to New Orleans so we could have the benefit of an education in the public school system, where we did not have to pay for our education. | 18:34 |
| Felix Armfield | Okay. How did it make you feel to see family members that you knew were in fact African-American or of African descent passing for White and not acknowledging the family for whom they'd seen them growing up? Oh, you didn't give it any thought? | 19:06 |
| Germaine Smith | Oh, yes. It hurt me very, very much because of the fact, there was a time that some of the people in New Orleans lived in what they call the 7th Ward. And those people who lived in the 7th Ward were considered more or less the Creoles, if that means anything. However— | 19:33 |
| Felix Armfield | If it means anything. | 19:55 |
| Germaine Smith | To me, I don't know, but I wonder. But they thought they were more than others. I did not live in the 7th Ward as a youngster. I lived in the uptown area, which was the 13th Ward, near the area where Xavier Prep school is. The original Xavier University started. However, I thought as much of myself as any of them because my mother wanted us to have an education. | 19:56 |
| Germaine Smith | However, I do recall one of my father's brothers, who is deceased, came to visit us in the 13th Ward, on Chestnut Street. And he lived in the 7th Ward, on Annette Street. And we happened to have some dark skinned people visiting us. And I understand that my uncle went downtown to the area where he lived to say he would not visit my daddy anymore because we mixed with Black people. And that hurt my daddy very much. But that was told to me. And as a result, my uncle never visited us until the day he died, because we mixed with Black people. | 20:25 |
| Felix Armfield | Now where did this uncle and his family live? | 21:18 |
| Germaine Smith | He lived here in New Orleans, in the 7th Ward, on Annette Street. | 21:22 |
| Felix Armfield | Oh, they lived in the 7th Ward? | 21:26 |
| Germaine Smith | Oh, yes. | 21:28 |
| Felix Armfield | And you all— | 21:28 |
| Germaine Smith | In the 13th. | 21:29 |
| Felix Armfield | In the 13th and you had a town history. | 21:29 |
| Germaine Smith | Yeah, right. | 21:29 |
| Felix Armfield | And that was American. | 21:32 |
| Germaine Smith | American. Oh, we were American. They were Creoles. | 21:33 |
| Felix Armfield | Oh. | 21:37 |
| Germaine Smith | Isn't that something? | 21:39 |
| Felix Armfield | Ms. Smith, you are too much. | 21:40 |
| Germaine Smith | No, but it's true. Truth is stranger than fiction. | 21:42 |
| Felix Armfield | Yeah. Yeah. | 21:46 |
| Germaine Smith | However, I'm so happy that my mother was for education. My father said he would go back to the country after we went through school, but he never lived to return to the country. The property is still there. My father's people's property is still there. My mother's people's property is still there. But we never returned there except to visit. And in the later years, my grandparents all moved to New Orleans when they became too old to take care of themselves in the country. | 21:47 |
| Felix Armfield | I sense, just looking at your mannerisms and your convictions in some of your statements, and correct me if I'm jumping to too big of an assumption, but I sense that you take great pride and always have taken a great sense of pride in saying that you were a Black woman. And that was about enough. | 22:18 |
| Germaine Smith | That's true. That's true. | 22:42 |
| Felix Armfield | Because when I asked you about those family members who you say passed, you said hurt you dearly to know that such a thing did occur. It seems like to me that this has been almost a deep-seated family skeleton for some time. It's been a sort of family thing for quite some time. | 22:43 |
| Germaine Smith | True. | 23:07 |
| Felix Armfield | And you've had to come to terms with that. And how do you deal with that? | 23:07 |
| Germaine Smith | Well, you see, my parents, mother and father, did not have that feeling that some of their relatives had. So, that gave me a good feeling. | 23:14 |
| Felix Armfield | It instilled in you— | 23:24 |
| Germaine Smith | Right. | 23:26 |
| Felix Armfield | Not to be problem. | 23:27 |
| Germaine Smith | Right. And they were happy with us. And education was foremost in their mind, not color. The majority of the relatives who lived in Convent, who came down here to further themselves educationally or whichever way, did not go to school very, very much. They ended up in cigar factories because they learned to make cigars. | 23:28 |
| Germaine Smith | In Convent, my grandparents, I guess, were prosperous. In fact, my maternal grandfather, had property that was leased out to different offices. A dentist had an office, the printing press had an office that printed the daily paper. There was a cigar factory there, that they made cigars. St. James Parish, Convent, Louisiana in particular, is the only place that I know of that grew what they call Perique tobacco. P-E-R-I-Q-U-E, Perique tobacco. That Tobacco— | 23:56 |
| Felix Armfield | What's Perique tobacco? | 24:40 |
| Germaine Smith | I'm not too sure. The Indians taught them how to cure it. They buried it in casks under the ground, oak casks. I don't know for how long, I never learned the whole story about it. But from those leaves of the tobacco, they rolled cigars called St. James Made. And from what I read, no place in the United States ever grew a tobacco called Perique. | 24:41 |
| Felix Armfield | And I know where I'm from, in North Carolina, it's the tobacco capital. I don't think— | 25:12 |
| Germaine Smith | I don't know if they even grew it anymore, but the Choctaw Indians, which I'm part Choctaw through my grandparents— | 25:17 |
| Felix Armfield | Okay. | 25:25 |
| Germaine Smith | Yeah. And I think the Choctaw Indiana showed them how to bury this tobacco to let it age or cure, whatever. Now, whether they still make St. James Made cigars, I don't know. But some of my relatives who passed for White could not get any other job but in El Trelles Cigar Factory, a company here that rule— | 25:26 |
| Felix Armfield | And it was called Ell— | 25:50 |
| Germaine Smith | Two words, El and Trelles, T-R-E-L-L-E-S. El Trelles was a cigar factory company here in the city. They still may make El Trelles cigars, I don't know. | 25:51 |
| Felix Armfield | Okay. Okay. | 26:06 |
| Germaine Smith | But that's the only jobs they could get. Except one cousin got a job in Klotz Cracker Factory, K-L-O-T-Z. Klotz Cracker Factory. Now, what was she doing there? I don't know. Packing crackers, I don't know. | 26:08 |
| Felix Armfield | Okay. Around about what time were your family members leaving the Convent area? | 26:25 |
| Germaine Smith | Oh, okay. I was about five. So, I was born in 1917. | 26:33 |
| Felix Armfield | So it's the early '20s? | 26:36 |
| Germaine Smith | Let's say 1920? Yeah, '23, '25, something like that. | 26:38 |
| Felix Armfield | Okay. Now, when do you and your family come in? Your mother and father? That's when they came here? | 26:42 |
| Germaine Smith | Oh, yeah, that's when they moved here. | 26:47 |
| Felix Armfield | Okay. So, it sounds like, do you think the Depression had anything to do with their wanting to leave Convent and come? | 26:49 |
| Germaine Smith | Well, possibly, too. And then they wanted us to get a better education. I was the youngest. I was too young to go to school. | 26:55 |
| Felix Armfield | Okay. | 27:04 |
| Germaine Smith | I was allowed to go and sit in, but I wasn't old enough. | 27:05 |
| Felix Armfield | So, all of your schooling was here in New Orleans? | 27:10 |
| Germaine Smith | Oh, yes. | 27:11 |
| Felix Armfield | Okay. | 27:11 |
| Germaine Smith | From kindergarten up. | 27:15 |
| Felix Armfield | Now, what do you remember about that world that you are thrust into in the mid 1920s? Oh, and the Depression hadn't come on. My mistake. New Orleans, that's in 1925. Depression didn't get here until 1929. Correct myself. What are your earliest impressions of New Orleans at that time, in your neighborhood and the people around you? | 27:16 |
| Germaine Smith | Okay. When we moved here, the neighborhoods were integrated. We didn't feel too much segregation in that particular time. However, I do remember having to sit in the back of the bus. I do remember not being able to attend certain theaters. Certain libraries I could not go to. And I think that was the main thing that I felt, having to sit in one area of the bus. No matter how many vacancies there were, I could not sit except in one particular area. I could not attend anything but a segregated school. | 27:43 |
| Felix Armfield | And what segregated school were you attending? | 28:35 |
| Germaine Smith | In the earlier years, I attended public schools of McDonough. McDonough #6 was the first school I went to here. After that, I attended Catholic schools, from third grade up. From first through third, I went to public schools here in the city, namely McDonough. #6 was the one near me. There are many McDonoughs. | 28:42 |
| Felix Armfield | Yeah. | 29:06 |
| Germaine Smith | However, from, I'd say, the middle of third grade on through— Because I left in the middle of the year. I attend Catholic schools staffed by the Sisters of the Blessed Sacrament who dedicated their lives to the education of Blacks and Indians. They called them Negroes then. So, from third grade, I attended Blessed Sacrament School, Xavier Prep, and then Xavier University. All my education was through Catholic. | 29:09 |
| Felix Armfield | And when did you go onto Xavier? | 29:39 |
| Germaine Smith | I finished high school in '34. And Xavier Prep, I finished Xavier University in '38. | 29:42 |
| Felix Armfield | Okay. | 29:48 |
| Germaine Smith | And then I went back to school for library work. I went in the summer. And so, I have a BA in Education and an MLS, masters in Library of Science. | 29:49 |
| Felix Armfield | Oh, Okay. So you're one of those people. You are an esteemed librarian? | 30:03 |
| Germaine Smith | Oh yeah. | 30:09 |
| Felix Armfield | You graduated high school from Xavier Prep. | 30:15 |
| Germaine Smith | Right. | 30:17 |
| Felix Armfield | What was Xavier Prep in 1934, before you came in the 1930s, when you were there? | 30:17 |
| Germaine Smith | Oh, it was co-ed. | 30:24 |
| Felix Armfield | Xavier Prep was co-ed? | 30:27 |
| Germaine Smith | Oh, yes. I understand that— I think it's now all girls. I'm not sure. | 30:28 |
| Felix Armfield | But you attended Xavier Prep— | 30:32 |
| Germaine Smith | Oh, yes. | 30:33 |
| Felix Armfield | — when it was co-ed, all Black? | 30:36 |
| Germaine Smith | Oh, yes. | 30:38 |
| Felix Armfield | Okay. What was Xavier Prep like then? What are some of your fondest memories? | 30:40 |
| Germaine Smith | Oh, I found dedicated teachers. We had White and Black teachers. We had nuns. But all, in my estimation, were dedicated people. I know they weren't making a big salary. | 30:45 |
| Felix Armfield | So, they had to love what they were doing. | 31:00 |
| Germaine Smith | I feel they did. | 31:00 |
| Felix Armfield | They were not there because they were making big dollars. | 31:05 |
| Germaine Smith | No, no, no. I know. I taught in the public, in Catholic schools too. | 31:06 |
| Felix Armfield | Okay. | 31:10 |
| Germaine Smith | For one year in the rural area. | 31:11 |
| Felix Armfield | Okay. | 31:20 |
| Germaine Smith | $50 a month. | 31:22 |
| Felix Armfield | And when was this? | 31:26 |
| Germaine Smith | 1939, '40. | 31:26 |
| Felix Armfield | You taught in New Orleans, in— | 31:26 |
| Germaine Smith | Oh, no, no. Yeah, in the rural area of— You wouldn't know it. But Mamou, M-A-M-O-U. That's near Ville Platte, Louisiana. M-A-M-O-U. | 31:29 |
| Felix Armfield | Oh, Mamou. | 31:40 |
| Germaine Smith | Mamou. | 31:40 |
| Felix Armfield | Okay. | 31:40 |
| Germaine Smith | And they sent me there because I could speak a little French. | 31:41 |
| Felix Armfield | Okay. | 31:44 |
| Germaine Smith | And if you went to the store and you could not point to what you wanted, you couldn't get it if you couldn't say it in French. So, I was there teaching first, second, and third grade. And another teacher who didn't speak French, taught fourth, fifth, and sixth, all in one room. | 31:45 |
| Felix Armfield | Really? In 1939, '40. | 31:59 |
| Germaine Smith | '40. | 31:59 |
| Felix Armfield | But you only stayed on that job one year? | 32:06 |
| Germaine Smith | Oh, yeah. I couldn't take it any longer. And I got married too. My mother died during that time, and I got married and moved to New Iberia. You just left new Iberia? | 32:07 |
| Felix Armfield | That's where we've been staying, in New Liberia for whole month. | 32:22 |
| Germaine Smith | Were you told about the time that all the Black doctors were chased out of New Iberia? | 32:25 |
| Felix Armfield | In 1943. But I'd like to hear you tell me about it. | 32:29 |
| Germaine Smith | Well, when— | 32:34 |
| Felix Armfield | Were you there at that time? | 32:34 |
| Germaine Smith | Yes. | 32:36 |
| Felix Armfield | What happened? | 32:38 |
| Germaine Smith | I wasn't too sure about it. I didn't really know the exact things. I do recall Professor Alvin Jones, who taught me at Xavier University, having come out there to try to get the Blacks to register. And he was beaten severely at the courthouse. And I think of the idiots, when he died, it was a result of those injuries he received. I recall that I could not get a doctor to come and see me unless I worked for some of the wealthy Whites like Mrs. Estorge, E-S-T-O-R-G-E, Mrs. Estorge. | 32:42 |
| Felix Armfield | Sounds like— | 33:22 |
| Germaine Smith | E-S-T-O-R-G-E. Her husband owned two of the theaters. There were only three theaters in New Iberia at that time, and her husband owned two of them. And whatever else, I don't know. But he seemed to have been a man of wealth. And when I needed a doctor, I did get a White doctor to come to me. | 33:23 |
| Felix Armfield | Now, this is after the doctors were run out of town? | 33:51 |
| Germaine Smith | Yeah. | 33:54 |
| Felix Armfield | Okay. | 33:54 |
| Germaine Smith | The only doctor that remained in town was a Doctor Dorsey. I think he had a drugstore too at the time. And unless you worked for some of the wealthy Whites, it was hard to get a doctor to come to you. So, somehow I got this— I can't remember his name right now. But a White doctor came to me, and I decided after that, if I were to have children, I didn't want to stay in a place where I couldn't have a doctor. And that was one of the reasons why I left New Iberia. | 33:58 |
| Felix Armfield | You were married at that time? | 34:34 |
| Germaine Smith | I had gotten married. Right. Yeah. I had gotten married in 1940. And I didn't want to stay there if I couldn't get a doctor to come to administer to me or what have you. However, after I became pregnant, I went to Boston to live. I left New Iberia. And at that time, it was wartime, and my husband was eligible for the service. So I was married three years before I got pregnant, so I wanted to be among one of my sisters, or with one of them. So I decided to go to Boston. | 34:34 |
| Germaine Smith | My husband went to the draft board and told them that I wanted to go to Boston to be with my sister. And he was concerned because maybe he would be drafted. So what happened, at the draft board, the lady in charge said, "Well, O'Neil, we'll be sure that you won't be drafted right away, so we're are going to take your name and put it at the bottom of the list so your name won't be called up." And she said okay. | 35:10 |
| Germaine Smith | So we went to Boston and we got there, and after three days, the papers came that he was drafted. So, they did not put his name below, as they said. But having to transfer to Boston, the draft board, it took a while. So my husband was drafted from Boston, but it took a while, maybe about three weeks, almost, maybe a month. | 35:35 |
| Germaine Smith | But he had to leave from Boston. He went into the Navy. But I know that the lady who told him his papers will be put down, that he wouldn't be pulled right away, didn't tell the truth, because his name came up too quickly. We hardly had time to get to Boston. | 35:58 |
| Felix Armfield | Yeah, it's almost before that. | 36:16 |
| Germaine Smith | Right. So, like I said, I stayed in Boston. Years later, I lived, but my husband was drafted from there. | 36:17 |
| Felix Armfield | Did your husband return from the war? | 36:21 |
| Germaine Smith | Oh, yes. Yes, yes. | 36:21 |
| Felix Armfield | Okay. What did you do in the meantime before your husband goes off to war? | 36:21 |
| Germaine Smith | Oh, when I was in Boston at the time, I had a sister, the same sister who lives here now, who is 89, she's in a nursing home. I lived with her and stayed with her until my husband was discharged from the service. And I came down back to New Iberia, but I did not want to remain there because I had one child and I could not get care. | 36:22 |
| Germaine Smith | So my husband decided to go to California, and he had relatives who worked for the Andrews sisters, and he got a job with Laverne Andrews. And finally he sent for me and I went to live in California. And that's where my second child was born, in Los Angeles. | 37:07 |
| Felix Armfield | Okay. Now, how long did you and your husband remain in Los Angeles? | 37:25 |
| Germaine Smith | Well, about 12 years. | 37:34 |
| Felix Armfield | Okay. So, when did you go actually go to Los Angeles? | 37:35 |
| Germaine Smith | Oh, let me see. My son was born in 1947. I'm trying to remember exactly when. My daughter was very young. Must have been 1945. She was born in '44. '45 or '46, I can't remember. | 37:39 |
| Felix Armfield | So right after the war closed. | 37:55 |
| Germaine Smith | Yeah. Yeah. | 37:56 |
| Felix Armfield | You headed off to California. And when did you return here to New Orleans? | 37:56 |
| Germaine Smith | I really can't remember. The dates sort of get away from me, but— | 38:10 |
| Felix Armfield | Was it in the '80s? | 38:14 |
| Germaine Smith | I'm trying to remember. My son was about seven years old when I came back, and he's 47 now. So that's 40 years ago. | 38:17 |
| Felix Armfield | Oh, when you came back to— | 38:27 |
| Germaine Smith | To live here, yeah. | 38:27 |
| Felix Armfield | Oh, okay. So you only remained out there 12 years. Okay. | 38:31 |
| Germaine Smith | Yeah. | 38:33 |
| Felix Armfield | Okay. Okay. So your youngest son, in fact, grew up here in New Orleans, if he was only seven when you— | 38:36 |
| Germaine Smith | Oh, yeah. He stayed here a good part of the time. In fact, my daughter too. But then when she got up college age, she wanted to go away. And she had a scholarship to several places, but she ended up going back to California. | 38:42 |
| Felix Armfield | Oh, did she? | 38:54 |
| Germaine Smith | And her daddy and I were separated. | 38:55 |
| Felix Armfield | Okay. | 38:57 |
| Germaine Smith | But she stayed with him for a while. Then I put her on the campus and therein lies a tale. But I did remarry before husband number one died. | 38:57 |
| Felix Armfield | Okay. Okay. | 39:09 |
| Germaine Smith | And husband number two, I had known him since I was 16, but I was his third wife. We didn't marry until after his second wife was dead about seven years. But we never lost contact. | 39:11 |
| Felix Armfield | Okay. Old flames never die. | 39:30 |
| Germaine Smith | Not really. And the thing about it is he was a real, real gentleman and he never really forgot me. And we didn't have too many years together. And he's dead now. And so— | 39:30 |
| Felix Armfield | You outlived them all. | 39:44 |
| Germaine Smith | Right. Isn't that something? But they were a little older than I, too. | 39:46 |
| Felix Armfield | Okay. | 39:51 |
| Germaine Smith | About 11, 12 years. | 40:03 |
| Felix Armfield | Okay. So you've always liked the older gentlemen. | 40:03 |
| Germaine Smith | I think so. | 40:03 |
| Speaker 1 | Nothing wrong with it. | 40:03 |
| Germaine Smith | I'd like to tell you something about my experiences teaching in this rural area. | 40:03 |
| Felix Armfield | Okay. | 40:06 |
| Germaine Smith | We had to— | 40:07 |
| Felix Armfield | That's when you were at— | 40:08 |
| Germaine Smith | Mamou, Mamou. | 40:08 |
| Felix Armfield | Mamou. | 40:08 |
| Germaine Smith | Mamou. | 40:08 |
| Felix Armfield | Okay. Tell me about it. | 40:08 |
| Germaine Smith | Which is really near Ville Platte. V-I-L-L-E. That's two words. P-L-A-T-T-E. That's all in Louisiana. | 40:13 |
| Felix Armfield | Okay. | 40:23 |
| Germaine Smith | And we had to go to church in Mamou, and somebody would take us either in a horse-pulled wagon or buggy or something like that. Nobody had cars too much. And to go to church there, we had to sit up in what I would call a pigeon roost. I wouldn't call it a balcony, but it was in the back of the church way up. | 40:24 |
| Felix Armfield | And you referred to it as a pigeon? | 40:52 |
| Germaine Smith | I called it a pigeon hole. | 40:53 |
| Felix Armfield | Okay. | 40:55 |
| Germaine Smith | Looks like to me, pigeon should a roosted up there, or pigeon roost, anything. | 40:55 |
| Felix Armfield | Being, sitting up there? | 40:59 |
| Germaine Smith | No, it was so little and shaky. And then the priest spoke nothing but French. | 41:00 |
| Felix Armfield | Okay. | 41:05 |
| Germaine Smith | And unless you could understand French, you couldn't understand what he was telling you. | 41:07 |
| Felix Armfield | Was your priest Black or White? | 41:11 |
| Germaine Smith | Oh, he was White. But the people all out there spoke French. I told you, that's why I was sent there, because I could understand it. | 41:12 |
| Felix Armfield | Were the other Blacks in the community? | 41:19 |
| Germaine Smith | Yeah, beautiful ones. But they were all mixed. | 41:20 |
| Felix Armfield | So Black and White children? | 41:24 |
| Germaine Smith | Oh, no, no, no. Some of them were White, but they were supposed to be Black because they had a little mixed blood, but you couldn't tell. You know this fella, Paul Prudhomme, who has this cookbook, and he has a restaurant here? Paul Prudhomme. P-R-U-D-H-O-M-M-E. Paul Prudhomme. Paul Prudhomme. | 41:27 |
| Felix Armfield | I've seen it. I've seen it. | 41:52 |
| Germaine Smith | I know I have his book. | 41:54 |
| Felix Armfield | Oh, okay. | 41:56 |
| Germaine Smith | I'm one of them. He autographed it. "To Jermaine, good cooking, good eating, and good loving." | 41:56 |
| Felix Armfield | All right. All right. | 42:04 |
| Germaine Smith | Paul Prudhomme. But anyway, I taught some people that I knew were related to him, but they were not supposed to be White. I don't know what they were, but they were very fair. But they all went to that school where they were supposed to be Black. But what I didn't like about going to church, where we had to sit. So the children were taught the Catholic religion, and of course, at a certain age, they received the communion for their first time. | 42:04 |
| Felix Armfield | Okay. | 42:29 |
| Germaine Smith | We used to call that your first communion. | 42:29 |
| Felix Armfield | And what age is that from children, do you— | 42:31 |
| Germaine Smith | Well, over there, it was a little older than here, because here, you receive your first communion at about second or third grade. Over there, it was about fourth or fifth grade. And I couldn't tell you the age levels because those children couldn't go to school as much as we did. So, some of them were a little bit older. | 42:33 |
| Germaine Smith | So, this particular day, our children, which none of them I taught— I taught first, second, and third. Bertha Thomas taught fourth, fifth, and sixth. So, our children had to go to receive the sacraments for the first time. So, what happened, they were so afraid to kneel when they knelt at the altar railing. They were so afraid when they got to the altar railing to kneel down— They don't kneel anymore, but at that time, you would kneel to receive the communion. So, I was watching this priest. His name was Father Chasson, C-H-A-S-S-O-N. | 42:52 |
| Felix Armfield | C-H-A-S— | 43:29 |
| Germaine Smith | S-O-N. Chasson. | 43:30 |
| Felix Armfield | C-H-A-S— | 43:30 |
| Germaine Smith | S-O-N. Father Chasson. So I was watching him. However, the Whites knelt here, and our little Black children left a space because they didn't want to kneel right next to the Whites. So they left a space for about two or three other children, and they knelt. And we only had about five. | 43:36 |
| Germaine Smith | Along comes a White woman and knelt in the vacant space at the railing. And I said to this other teacher, "If this priest passes up— If he distributes communion to this White woman and then go to our children who are receiving sacraments for the first time, I'm going to have to call the bishop in Lafayette to report him. Because this is something that I don't think is right." | 43:56 |
| Felix Armfield | Okay. | 44:24 |
| Germaine Smith | Our children are receiving communion for the first time and that's supposed to be a great thing in their lives. So when the priest served the little Whites and this White woman was there, he skipped her and went to the little Blacks. And I praised him forevermore because he did the right thing. Then he went back to the White woman. | 44:25 |
| Felix Armfield | Why would she even come and get down there? | 44:46 |
| Germaine Smith | She did that because those Cajuns are prejudiced like that. She did it— I don't know why she did it. But I always remembered that Father Chasson because he did not give her the communion until the Black children received theirs. | 44:48 |
| Felix Armfield | I know she must have been appalled. | 45:04 |
| Germaine Smith | I know. She might've reported him too. But I would've reported him had he skipped our children, because that's something in their lives, and they were brought up in that faith, in Catholicism. | 45:07 |
| Felix Armfield | But still they went behind those White children, right? | 45:18 |
| Germaine Smith | Well, that's the way it was. That's the way it was. But I was very, very happy about that. And that's something that has really stayed in my memory all these years. Father Chasson. | 45:22 |
| Germaine Smith | And on Sundays, the main thing that he would say— They did not have festivals and fairs and whatnot to raise money for the church. Every year, at a certain time of the year, certain people would donate money, and they have some of these Whites that have swindled the Blacks out of their property. And one man in particular, Mr. Gus Miller— Now it's really Miller, M-I-L-L-E-R. His first name was Gus, but he pronounced it Miller. So he had swindled some Black people by the name of Fontenot, F-O-N-T-N-O-T, Fontenot. | 45:37 |
| Felix Armfield | F-O-N— | 46:16 |
| Germaine Smith | T-E-N-O-T. Fontenot, F-O-N-T-E-N-O-T. F-O-N-T-E-N-O-T. Fontenot. | 46:17 |
| Felix Armfield | Okay. | 46:24 |
| Germaine Smith | He had swindled some of them out property. He lend the money on their property if they fail, what have you. So, he owned a lot of land from swindling. So every year in the church, he would donate like $100. | 46:27 |
| Felix Armfield | Is this still in Mamou? | 46:40 |
| Germaine Smith | Yeah. At the church where we went. | 46:41 |
| Felix Armfield | Okay. | 0:03 |
| Germaine Smith | Father [indistinct 00:00:06] used to come to the school where we worked to say mass once a month, because that whole community was predominantly Catholic. So he would take our school and make a church out of it. All he had to do was have the chalice that he brought from the church and do what he had to do in regard to the services. And I'll never forget, once he forgot the chalice. They consecrate the wine in a chalice, the Catholics. | 0:04 |
| Germaine Smith | And this particular day, I didn't understand, he took an ordinary vase that we use for flowers and consecrated the wine in it. And then after he did that, and he drank the wine, we had one of those potbelly stoves, and it was in the wintertime. He threw it in the stove. And I asked him about that, I said, "Why do you do that?" He said, "Well, after you use it to consecrate wine, you can't use it anymore." So he burned it. And I didn't know— However, let's go back to the church. When it was tim— | 0:37 |
| Felix Armfield | Well did they use a different one each time [indistinct 00:01:11] church? | 1:06 |
| Germaine Smith | Oh, no, no, no, no, no. They used a gold plated chalice. | 1:11 |
| Felix Armfield | But see, the one at church is only going to be used for— | 1:13 |
| Germaine Smith | Oh, of course. Of course. | 1:17 |
| Felix Armfield | [indistinct 00:01:18]. | 1:17 |
| Germaine Smith | He didn't bring it that day. No, he didn't bring it. He forgot it. | 1:18 |
| Felix Armfield | No, the other one. | 1:20 |
| Germaine Smith | No, he said you could not use that anymore. | 1:22 |
| Felix Armfield | Okay, I see. | 1:24 |
| Germaine Smith | Because wine had been consecrated in that, and it could not be used for anything. He dumped our vase into the stove, and it just whatever it did. Disintegrated. And I didn't know why he had done it. He told me why. So as I said, he always brought his own chalice, which was gold and silver plate, all like that, because that's what they used as the church services all the time. However, I never forgot him because of what he did with our little children. And I'll never forget him about talking about the donations that the people gave for the church. And it was like a song. | 1:25 |
| Germaine Smith | On a Sunday, he would say, [singing]. All of that is telling the amount of money each person gave. So when I say, "Mr. Gus Mieler [foreign language 00:02:25]." That meant met Gus Mieler gave a hundred dollars to the church. And if you say Mr. [indistinct 00:02:37] [foreign language 00:02:37], that meant he gave $50. But he said all of that in French. And it was like a sing song. And we had to hear that maybe for three or four Sundays in a row of how many people donated and how much money. But some of them, like I said, Mr. Mieler swindled the Blacks out their property, so he could've given [foreign language 00:02:55]. He could have given many dollars. [foreign language 00:03:02] In French is a dollar. [foreign language 00:03:06] Is $50, and so on. | 2:02 |
| Felix Armfield | Ms. Smith, you told me you have forgotten things. I don't think that you have. | 3:05 |
| Germaine Smith | Well, some of it. | 3:05 |
| Felix Armfield | I don't believe you have. You seem well fluent. I think if I was to strike up a conversation with you in French, you wouldn't have a problem communicating. | 3:20 |
| Germaine Smith | I don't remember a lot, but I do remember some. It is just part of me. | 3:28 |
| Felix Armfield | Were you ever mistaken for a White woman? | 3:43 |
| Germaine Smith | Not me, but some of my sisters. I'm of the brown type. But I have some, I wish I had the family picture. Some of them were lighter. But we were sort of olive or something, whatever, maybe teasing tan or something like that. | 3:48 |
| Felix Armfield | What you call it, teasing tan? | 4:00 |
| Germaine Smith | Chocolate brown, I don't know. But some of them were mistaken, but they didn't pay us. There's only one time, my sister, who was a principal of the school year, she's been dead now 12, about 13 years. And once there was something happening, she was waiting at a bus stop, and something was going wrong with some Blacks were arguing or something, and a White woman got close to her. She said, "Ooh, I'm so afraid of these niggers." My sister said, "Me too." And they huddled together. | 4:05 |
| Felix Armfield | Oh no. | 4:45 |
| Germaine Smith | And that was that. | 4:46 |
| Felix Armfield | So your sister probably got a big kick out of that. | 4:47 |
| Germaine Smith | I know she did. She told it to all of us after that. | 4:49 |
| Felix Armfield | So said this White woman said, "I am so afraid of these niggers." | 4:53 |
| Germaine Smith | Oh yeah. I know. And she stood there and my sister said, "Me too." | 4:57 |
| Felix Armfield | "Me too." | 5:03 |
| Germaine Smith | My sister was a lot of fun. | 5:03 |
| Felix Armfield | Ooh, she [indistinct 00:05:07] hilarious. | 5:06 |
| Germaine Smith | She went to the Sanger Theater, and every place before Black could go. Now, her hair wasn't quite as smooth as mine, and so she'd put a hat on, but she was much fairer and that made it look worse. | 5:07 |
| Felix Armfield | The interesting thing is I don't think they've ever been able to know. | 5:20 |
| Germaine Smith | I don't think so. | 5:22 |
| Felix Armfield | But as Black people, we always knew who was who. | 5:22 |
| Germaine Smith | I'm sure. | 5:22 |
| Felix Armfield | I don't think we ever mistook anyone. | 5:30 |
| Germaine Smith | I don't know what's hard. I mean, really. I can tell them all. | 5:33 |
| Felix Armfield | We know each other when we see each other. | 5:34 |
| Germaine Smith | I know. But life has been very interesting to me. I've traveled a lot. I lived in Boston. I lived in California. I've traveled from the Great Lakes to the Gulf, from Maine. | 5:40 |
| Felix Armfield | Were you teaching in all these places that you traveled to? | 5:48 |
| Germaine Smith | Oh, no. No, no, no. I had an opportunity, but my husband, after I married husband number one did not want me to teach. I could have gotten a job easily in Los Angeles, very easily. He didn't want me to work. | 5:50 |
| Felix Armfield | So you stayed home took care of [indistinct 00:06:06]. | 6:00 |
| Germaine Smith | Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. | 6:00 |
| Felix Armfield | Now, when you came back, but after you separated from your husband— | 6:07 |
| Germaine Smith | Number one. Yeah. | 6:09 |
| Felix Armfield | Okay. What year was that? | 6:10 |
| Germaine Smith | Like I say, I have to go by the age of my children. | 6:13 |
| Felix Armfield | Your son? | 6:17 |
| Germaine Smith | Yeah. Edward was— No, no. Let me see. Edward how old when I first came out? Edward was just about five. My son was just about five, I think. | 6:18 |
| Felix Armfield | Okay. When was he born? | 6:24 |
| Germaine Smith | Oh, he was born in Los Angeles. | 6:26 |
| Felix Armfield | What year? You remember the year? | 6:27 |
| Germaine Smith | Oh yeah. He was '47. Edward was born in— Yeah, my daughter was born in 1944 in Boston. My summer boy in '47 in Los Angeles. | 6:30 |
| Felix Armfield | And he was about five years old when you came back here? | 6:38 |
| Germaine Smith | Just about. | 6:41 |
| Felix Armfield | You came back here in 1952? | 6:42 |
| Germaine Smith | It had to be, because he wasn't quite old enough for kindergarten. I advanced his age. He was really only four. | 6:46 |
| Felix Armfield | So about '51, '52. | 6:52 |
| Germaine Smith | Something like that. Yeah. | 6:53 |
| Felix Armfield | When you came back here to New Orleans. So you began your teaching career then. Did you start put your career back up? | 6:54 |
| Germaine Smith | What I did, I did substitute work. | 7:01 |
| Felix Armfield | Okay. Where were you able to substitute? | 7:05 |
| Germaine Smith | In all the public schools in the city of New Orleans. Day by day. Day by day. | 7:09 |
| Felix Armfield | That were Black? | 7:11 |
| Germaine Smith | Yes. At that time. Yeah. | 7:16 |
| Felix Armfield | Exactly. In 1951, '52? | 7:17 |
| Germaine Smith | Yeah. But later than that, I was able to work as a librarian in integrated schools. | 7:20 |
| Felix Armfield | Okay. Okay. Yeah. But as a substitute teacher, you clearly [indistinct 00:07:31]. | 7:26 |
| Germaine Smith | At that time, I did. Only. | 7:31 |
| Felix Armfield | Okay. What was it happening here in New Orleans, if you can recall? Think back in 1950, '51, '52? Could you sense there was a change about to occur? Was there tension in the air? | 7:34 |
| Germaine Smith | I didn't find it so much. I found it when I went as a librarian in the schools that were integrated. I didn't find it previous to that in the predominantly Black schools, although integration had become the law. | 7:50 |
| Felix Armfield | Okay. | 8:07 |
| Germaine Smith | I didn't feel it so much. | 8:08 |
| Felix Armfield | This is when? When you began teaching full-time? | 8:10 |
| Germaine Smith | Yes. I'm trying to remember when. You see, when I first came out here, I did substitute work, and then after about a year, I was appointed permanently in a predominantly Black school. Lockett School. | 8:14 |
| Felix Armfield | Lockett? | 8:31 |
| Germaine Smith | L-O-C-K-E-T-T. Lockett School. That's in the Ninth Ward. And from there, I went to Moten, which was in the Desire Housing Project. M-O-T-E-N. And then from there, I left to go to McDonough 42. McDonough Number 42. That had been a previously all White school, McDonough 9, and they gave it to Blacks, so they changed the name to 42. They didn't want somebody to say, "I finished from Number 9, and that was White at the time." So instead of being 42, I mean nine, they changed to 42, because then it was all Black. | 8:31 |
| Felix Armfield | [indistinct 00:09:08]. | 9:06 |
| Germaine Smith | Uh-huh. | 9:07 |
| Felix Armfield | That's almost as bad as what happened in the New Iberia when integration came there. All the schools that had Black and had been named for Black people, they changed them. | 9:11 |
| Germaine Smith | Has anyone told you about the Professor Alvin Jones and his having been beaten because he tried to get the— | 9:24 |
| Felix Armfield | Was he the NAACP president? | 9:30 |
| Germaine Smith | No. He was a college professor at one time, and he had married some of the family of the Geddeses, who are undertakers and funeral directors here. G-E-D-D-E-S. | 9:32 |
| Felix Armfield | Is that here in New Orleans, or in New Iberia? | 9:44 |
| Germaine Smith | Oh, no. He lived in New Orleans and he went there to try to get the Blacks to vote to register. | 9:49 |
| Felix Armfield | And when did this happen? | 9:54 |
| Germaine Smith | I don't remember the year. Now, Mrs. Baldis remembers, because I was talking to her about it. | 9:54 |
| Felix Armfield | And when he got down to New Iberia, they beat him? | 9:57 |
| Germaine Smith | Uh-huh. | 9:59 |
| Felix Armfield | The White mob beat him? | 9:59 |
| Germaine Smith | Oh yeah. Right at the courthouse. So they beat him severely. And I do think, [indistinct 00:10:08] is, I don't remember how long after that he died, but I think he never recovered from those injuries. | 10:01 |
| Felix Armfield | Did he die as a result of those injuries? | 10:14 |
| Germaine Smith | I'm sure, I'm sure. But it wasn't right then. But Mrs. Baldis remembers that. I don't remember, like I said. I'm not good at dates. But he taught me Xavier University. He taught me economics. He was married to a lady named Inez Geddes. Her parents were of the Geddes, Gertrude Geddes, Willis, all that funeral company people here in the city. In fact, he has a son named Geddes Jones, who's now in Southern France. | 10:17 |
| Germaine Smith | I saw him in recent years. In fact, he came down here and he took an aunt of his, who was living near where I was before I moved here, took her back to France with him. Her name is, I think, Inez Geddes, I think. And she's going back there to live with him. And then Professor Jones had a daughter, Alva. His name was Alvin Jones. They named her Alva L'inez, a combination of the daddy and the mother. The mother was Inez Geddes. So her name was Alva, A-L-V-A, and then her name was L apostrophe I-N-E-Z. Alva L'inez Jones. | 10:47 |
| Felix Armfield | Okay. I see. That's an interesting name. A beautiful name. | 11:29 |
| Germaine Smith | I know. It is. | 11:29 |
| Felix Armfield | What did you do here in New Orleans for social entertainment? A girl who was from the uptown area, who was not from the South Ward. What was your entertainment? As a young girl. | 11:32 |
| Germaine Smith | I was a cheerleader at Xavier University. | 11:49 |
| Felix Armfield | You were a cheerleader when you went to Xavier University? | 11:53 |
| Germaine Smith | Yeah. | 12:01 |
| Felix Armfield | Really? I so is not can see you having been a cheerleader, Ms. Smith. | 12:01 |
| Germaine Smith | I sort of settled down. | 12:01 |
| Felix Armfield | [indistinct 00:12:06]. | 12:01 |
| Germaine Smith | No, no, no. | 12:01 |
| Felix Armfield | For a cheerleader. I'm sure you could get the crowd riled up. | 12:07 |
| Germaine Smith | Well, I used to do it in the stadium at one time, and then they asked me to go down. But anyway, I liked all the college activities. I used to participate in the proms, everything connected with social life at the university. And of course, a cheerleader, they'd have what they'd call a hop after the football game and all like that. I did a little entertaining. I was in the choruses. The priest had a sort of musical every year called Footlights Parade. And I started dance. At one time I thought I wanted to be a chorus girl. | 12:09 |
| Felix Armfield | Oh really? | 12:45 |
| Germaine Smith | But I used to love to dance. I never could sing. In fact, I can't draw. All I can draw is my pension and my breath. I can draw my retirement check and my breath. But I liked fun. | 12:46 |
| Felix Armfield | You appear to be a fun person. A very fun person. | 13:03 |
| Germaine Smith | I've said a little bit. | 13:06 |
| Felix Armfield | Have yourself a little bit? | 13:07 |
| Germaine Smith | They call me Gussy here because my middle name is Augusta. And sometimes they call me Fussy Gussy, which is just a joke. And other times Cussy Gussy, because sometimes I feel like I could cuss. | 13:11 |
| Felix Armfield | Do you feel like you could curse, or do you curse? | 13:24 |
| Germaine Smith | I do a little. | 13:27 |
| Felix Armfield | Okay. Okay. And do the Sisters feel? | 13:30 |
| Germaine Smith | I don't do it in front of them. Okay. But I think they get a report. In fact, the priest, one time, there's a lovely priest here. He belongs to a group that predominantly Black, but he's the only White that I first knew of. SVD. That's the Black priest that I know of. But I found out he belongs to the same group. And one time I said, "Father," I said— He called me Gussy. I said, "Father." He said, "Cussy, Fussy." He said, "Well, Gussy sometime I'm Cussy too." So that made me feel good. But he was just joking with me. | 13:32 |
| Felix Armfield | He may. He may think it in his mind, but he doesn't need to speak it. | 14:07 |
| Germaine Smith | I think he might need to sometime, because these people. | 14:07 |
| Felix Armfield | [indistinct 00:14:08]. | 14:07 |
| Germaine Smith | You don't know the people we have here. All types. But anyway, I had a good young life. I was interested in fights. I used to go to prize fights. I knew some of the fighters here and some away from here. I had met Joe Louis. | 14:08 |
| Felix Armfield | I was going to say, did you know Joe Louis? | 14:33 |
| Germaine Smith | I had his autograph. I met him at the Elks Club in New York one year. And I knew Holman Williams. He was a welterweight. I knew Kid Coco. I knew Wesley Faron. I had a beautiful scrapbook. And during Betsy, my scrapbook got ruined. And I'll never forget, Holman gave me a beautiful— | 14:35 |
| Felix Armfield | Betsy was the hurricane that came through. | 15:00 |
| Germaine Smith | Yeah. That bad, bad one. | 15:02 |
| Felix Armfield | And that's when we lost the [indistinct 00:15:07]. | 15:03 |
| Germaine Smith | Oh my God. Yes. And Holman used to come down very often. He used to come on the campus at Xavier. I had passes to the fights. Oh yeah. | 15:07 |
| Felix Armfield | Now was Holman in fact— Were you dating at the time, or he was just a good friend? | 15:16 |
| Germaine Smith | Oh, no, he was a friend. No, no. I met him through a good friend of mine in college. Oh, no. He was dating a woman here in the city. I've forgotten her name now. Oh, no. We were just buddies. And I never forget, my sister who's dead now, who was the principal of a school here in— Jones School. I took her to the fight with me once, because I had some passes and poor thing, she didn't know when a guy's mouthpiece flew out, she thought his teeth fell out. And I had to said no. But anyway, Holman was a nice guy. I never forget, you know Blackburn was his trainer I think at one time. You remember Jack Blackburn? Yeah. You don't? You don't remember the name? | 15:21 |
| Felix Armfield | The name? Yes. | 15:57 |
| Germaine Smith | I don't know. Oh, no, no, no, no. I mean the name. Oh no. Blackburn came— | 15:57 |
| Felix Armfield | I've run across the name, yeah. | 16:04 |
| Germaine Smith | Well, yeah. Oh no. Blackburn came down here with him a couple of times because Blackburn was really Joe Louis's trainer. But Blackburn came down here with Holman, so I took him to a place I used to go sometime. I used to hang out a little bit. | 16:06 |
| Felix Armfield | Ain't nothing wrong with it. | 16:18 |
| Germaine Smith | But anyway, I went to a place and Jack Blackburn went with us. And so this guy— I'm not going to say the name of the place, but anyway— | 16:19 |
| Felix Armfield | Why you not going to say the name of the place? | 16:29 |
| Germaine Smith | Well, I wasn't supposed to be going there, but it was a place called Angelo's. | 16:33 |
| Felix Armfield | Oh, okay. Was Angelo's all that bad? You survived it. | 16:35 |
| Germaine Smith | Oh, it wasn't bad. I used to go in the back, in the booths. It was on Fourth and Danielle. And Blackman came in there too. So he was going to leave us. So Holman just set up the people, but he wasn't drinking, naturally. And so Blackman said to him, he said, "You know, Holman, you got to fight. You got to fight tomorrow." Said, "This lady." So Holman said, "Jack, you don't have to worry about her. She's not that type of lady." I felt so good. I felt so good. | 16:41 |
| Felix Armfield | Yeah, yeah. | 17:09 |
| Germaine Smith | That was real nice. A compliment. But anyway, I used to get passes to the fights and then party afterwards. But you couldn't party too much with fighters, 'cause they had to keep in training. But I had a wonderful scrapbook and a picture of Holman. And he [indistinct 00:17:28], "I'm not only going to autograph it, it's a sentimental journey." I didn't know I was sentimental, but maybe I was. I had a lot of autographs. Joe Louis too. I was so sorry about that book. But I used to like prize fighters. | 17:11 |
| Felix Armfield | What was it like? Did you actually know Joe Louis, or you saw [indistinct 00:17:44]. | 17:35 |
| Germaine Smith | I met him. No, I met him. I met him in New York at the Elks Club. And I just knew him from seeing him. And so he was at a club, and I went in there with a girlfriend of mine, Ethel, who lived in Brooklyn. She's still living. And we went to the Elks. And here Joe Louis was in there and Oh, he came over to speak. I understand he was looking me over. | 17:44 |
| Felix Armfield | Oh really? I'm sure you looked him over too. | 18:16 |
| Germaine Smith | I don't know. I was young and pretty and full of hope. | 18:29 |
| Felix Armfield | Don't care. Young and pretty and full of hope. | 18:40 |
| Germaine Smith | And I used to wash my face with Lux toilette soap. Now I'm old, decrepit, and getting gray. Any old soap come what . That's just some of my humor. | 18:41 |
| Felix Armfield | Now, what was Lux toilette soap? | 18:48 |
| Germaine Smith | When that was a soap. Lux. There's a soap called L-U-X. They still have Lux. | 18:48 |
| Felix Armfield | Okay. And you called it toilette soap? | 18:48 |
| Germaine Smith | Well, listen, when I was young and pretty full of hope, I used to wash my face with Lux toilette soap. Now I'm old, decrepit, and getting gray. Any old soap come with me. | 18:48 |
| Felix Armfield | Oh, I like them words. | 18:48 |
| Germaine Smith | That's just a rhyme. | 18:50 |
| Felix Armfield | I like that. I like that. But then I'm sure not [indistinct 00:18:56], you're not old and decrepit. It's still— | 18:50 |
| Germaine Smith | Well, I mean, I can't do them. I had a very bad fall a year ago, and this right side of mine has been handicapped. I fractured, really I crushed the 11th and 12th vertebrae in a fall. I blacked out one morning when I went to get my paper and I fell flat on a paved area. | 18:58 |
| Felix Armfield | Right out here? | 19:15 |
| Germaine Smith | Oh, no, no, no. I hadn't moved here yet. Uh-huh. I moved here after that. And then I understand that the third and fourth vertebrae are pressing on a nerve. I still go to a chiropractor. It's helping me, but it takes— That crush to the 11th and 12th, well, that just has healed, but it still gives me pain. And I can't use my right hand as much as I used to. And I'm not left-handed. But anyway, I'm doing okay. I was using a walker. | 19:16 |
| Felix Armfield | But you still looking and sounding— | 19:42 |
| Germaine Smith | Let me tell you another thing about something about my light life and my social life. | 19:42 |
| Felix Armfield | Please do. | 19:46 |
| Germaine Smith | I used to get out a lot, and I used to go uptown sometime to the Dew Drop. | 19:46 |
| Felix Armfield | Dew Drop. | 19:52 |
| Germaine Smith | D-E-W and D-R-O-P on South Street. Frank Panie owned that place. I don't know— P-N-I-A is his last name. | 19:53 |
| Felix Armfield | What's his last name? | 20:03 |
| Germaine Smith | P-A-N-I-E. Panie. One time I went there and Duke Ellington, all the musicians and celebrities used to go to his place to visit from time to time when they were here. So this particular time, Duke Ellington was there. Not playing. He only visited there. He was playing in the city someplace, but he went to the Dew Drop that particular night. Some friends of mine, we went there that night and Duke was on the outside, on the sidewalk. | 20:05 |
| Germaine Smith | And I walked up to him, because my brother-in-law was in show business, and I had met a lot of the show guys. So I went up there to Duke and I told him, I said, "Duke," I said, "I am Herbert Jones' sister-in-law." I said, "You were at Xavier, but I had to work that particular day, but I saw a picture of you with the cheerleaders." He said, "Really?" I said, "But I wasn't there." So he said, "Really?" And guess what? He kissed me. He said, "Well, I was there with the cheerleaders, but I didn't kiss any of them." So he kissed me on the sidewalk outside the Dew Drop. And my friends never forgot that. | 20:36 |
| Felix Armfield | You were kissed by the Duke himself. Duke Ellington. | 21:14 |
| Germaine Smith | Oh yeah. But I mingled with all these show business people. The Jones Brothers were very famous in the East. Okay. And so as a result, Louie Armstrong, Duke Ellington, oh, you name them, they all used to visit the house, because he invited him to come have gumbo. And my sister used to love to cook. That's the one here who's 89. That was her husband. | 21:20 |
| Felix Armfield | That's her. And your brother-in-law— | 21:44 |
| Germaine Smith | Was in show business. Oh, the Jones Brothers. And they were real brothers and they entertained all in these. The only time they left was once in Bakersfield and I was in Los Angeles. I went to hear them entertain. | 21:45 |
| Felix Armfield | They did come to [indistinct 00:21:59] New Orleans. | 21:58 |
| Germaine Smith | No, no, no. Alabama. They went to 'Bama State. | 21:59 |
| Felix Armfield | But they never did do New Orleans? | 22:03 |
| Germaine Smith | No. | 22:04 |
| Felix Armfield | Why is that? | 22:05 |
| Germaine Smith | I don't know. | 22:05 |
| Felix Armfield | Now what type of music did they do? | 22:07 |
| Germaine Smith | Oh, I could play you a little bit of it. Real, real great. | 22:12 |
| Felix Armfield | What kind of music? | 22:13 |
| Germaine Smith | Oh, my brother-in-law played vibraharps and piano, and they all had good voices. And Clyde and Max played piano, but they had beautiful, beautiful harmony. | 22:14 |
| Felix Armfield | Oh, they did. | 22:26 |
| Germaine Smith | Oh, I'm sorry. Yeah. I was playing it before you came in. | 22:29 |
| Felix Armfield | Oh really? | 22:36 |
| Germaine Smith | Yeah. I just wanted you to know about it too. | 22:37 |
| Felix Armfield | Okay. | 22:39 |
| Germaine Smith | And this was the main album that I have. | 22:45 |
| Felix Armfield | Is this the same one right here that we're looking at now? What we're going to hear, is it off of this album? | 22:50 |
| Germaine Smith | Right. I don't know, is the album in there or no? | 22:57 |
| Felix Armfield | It's in here. | 22:58 |
| Germaine Smith | Oh, that's another picture. | 22:59 |
| Felix Armfield | And this one was your brother in law? | 23:04 |
| Germaine Smith | Yeah, Herbert. They were very good. They entertained all in Fall River and all on the East Coast. I used to go watch them, listen to them. Their father was a minister. They were born, I think some of them, in Crowley, Louisiana. Others in Alabama. They all went to 'Bama State. | 23:09 |
| Felix Armfield | They were a band that was big in the '40s and '50, huh? | 23:38 |
| Germaine Smith | And they played with Duke and a lot of brothers. My brother-in-law did the write up about everything. Interesting. Very interesting. All educated, intelligent young men. | 23:43 |
| Felix Armfield | Clearly. | 23:56 |
| Germaine Smith | That's all over wigs on there. But in show business, that's necessary when you're on the stage. | 24:07 |
| Felix Armfield | Okay. Well, what I'm going to get ready to do is get some paperwork from you. We'll leave the tape that's running and you never know. | 24:24 |
| Germaine Smith | Something else? | 24:29 |
| Felix Armfield | Just some quick paperwork. I just need some [indistinct 00:24:39]. | 24:29 |
| Germaine Smith | My dates, I don't remember too well. | 24:39 |
| Felix Armfield | Well, just give me what you can remember. You don't have to recall any specifics. If you can remember— | 24:39 |
| Germaine Smith | I have to go by ages of my children or my age. | 24:45 |
| Felix Armfield | Then we can do it that way. | 24:48 |
| Germaine Smith | Okay. I'm ready. | 25:00 |
| Felix Armfield | Now, your last name is Smith? | 25:03 |
| Germaine Smith | Is Smith. Oh yeah. That was husband number two. And I retained that name. | 25:04 |
| Felix Armfield | And your first name is G-E-R-M-A-I-N-E. Germaine. | 25:10 |
| Germaine Smith | Right. | 25:16 |
| Felix Armfield | And your middle name? | 25:16 |
| Germaine Smith | Well now, my maiden name was, was Poché, but my middle name was Germaine Augusta Poché. | 25:20 |
| Felix Armfield | Okay. Now, what you want to go by? | 25:27 |
| Germaine Smith | I go by Germaine P Smith now. | 25:30 |
| Felix Armfield | P-O-C-H-E with the accent on the E? | 25:34 |
| Germaine Smith | Because you see my children are Viltzes. I didn't have any children by my husband number two. | 25:37 |
| Felix Armfield | Okay. And your maiden name is Poché. | 25:42 |
| Germaine Smith | Poché, uh-huh. | 25:43 |
| Felix Armfield | And the address you, this is your permanent address? | 25:43 |
| Germaine Smith | Oh yeah. Hopefully. | 25:52 |
| Felix Armfield | 30— | 25:54 |
| Germaine Smith | Four. | 25:55 |
| Felix Armfield | Hundred. | 25:56 |
| Germaine Smith | [indistinct 00:25:58] Anthony. | 25:57 |
| Felix Armfield | St. Anthony. This is St. Anthony Street? | 25:57 |
| Germaine Smith | No, no. Avenue, because there is a Street. | 26:02 |
| Felix Armfield | And you're in unit number— | 26:05 |
| Germaine Smith | 325. | 26:07 |
| Felix Armfield | This is New Orleans. | 26:07 |
| Germaine Smith | 70122. | 26:07 |
| Felix Armfield | And your birthdate, Ms. Smith? | 26:22 |
| Germaine Smith | 8/28/17. 1917. | 26:26 |
| Felix Armfield | August 28th? | 26:27 |
| Germaine Smith | Yeah. August 28th, 1917. 8/28/1917. This the eighth month. The 28th date in 1917. | 26:32 |
| Felix Armfield | Okay. Gotcha. Because my birthday is the 27th of this month. | 26:46 |
| Germaine Smith | Is that right? You're a Virgo. | 26:47 |
| Felix Armfield | Mm-hmm. So are you. | 26:48 |
| Germaine Smith | I know. | 26:48 |
| Felix Armfield | Where were you born? | 26:54 |
| Germaine Smith | Convent, Louisiana. | 26:55 |
| Felix Armfield | Convent. And what parish is that in? | 26:57 |
| Germaine Smith | St. James. | 26:59 |
| Felix Armfield | See, I thought you said your memory wasn't any good. And your principal occupation, you were a teacher/librarian? | 27:00 |
| Germaine Smith | A teacher. Well, I mean, the last 10 years I was a librarian, but my main occupation before that was teaching, but I was teaching librarian and when I retired. | 27:14 |
| Felix Armfield | Okay. Eight— | 27:44 |
| Germaine Smith | 76. Age? | 27:45 |
| Felix Armfield | No, no, no. I was trying to think of today's date. | 27:45 |
| Germaine Smith | I used to hear them sing, though. Now, this is a university doing this? | 27:52 |
| Felix Armfield | Duke University. | 28:07 |
| Germaine Smith | Duke. | 28:08 |
| Felix Armfield | Duke University. And they will be housed at Duke University. And Duke made copies will be sent back here in New Orleans to SUNO. | 28:09 |
| Germaine Smith | The studies? Where Mrs. [indistinct 00:28:27] is. | 28:17 |
| Felix Armfield | In the Center for African and African-American Studies. | 28:27 |
| Germaine Smith | Are you a student at Duke? | 28:27 |
| Felix Armfield | I'm a graduate student at Michigan State. | 28:30 |
| Germaine Smith | Oh, Michigan. Okay. | 28:32 |
| Felix Armfield | Michigan State University. I'm working on a PhD in history out there. And I'm doing research this summer for Duke University. | 28:33 |
| Germaine Smith | Oh, nice. | 28:46 |
| Felix Armfield | Now, your phone number, Ms. Smith? | 28:46 |
| Germaine Smith | 943-8732. | 28:47 |
| Felix Armfield | Okay. Now, officially you want to appear first name as Germaine— | 28:48 |
| Germaine Smith | Really, yeah. Germaine. I'm not Jermaine Jackson. Some people put the J and some people leave the E off. But it's G-E-R-M-A-I-N-E. Germaine P. Smith. That's the way my check comes every month. | 28:58 |
| Felix Armfield | Germaine P Smith. That's how you want to appear on all official records. | 29:10 |
| Germaine Smith | Right. | 29:12 |
| Felix Armfield | Okay. Because that's how it will appear. The interviewee would like his or her name to appear in written materials and it will appear as Germaine P. Smith. | 29:16 |
| Germaine Smith | Good. | 29:25 |
| Felix Armfield | Current marital status. Single, married, divorced, or [indistinct 00:29:35]. | 29:31 |
| Germaine Smith | Well, no, but widowed. Both of them are dead. | 29:35 |
| Felix Armfield | Okay. Now what was your husband's first name? Your last [indistinct 00:29:41]. | 29:38 |
| Germaine Smith | Number one or number two? | 29:40 |
| Felix Armfield | Number one. The one that you're going the last name of, Smith. | 29:42 |
| Germaine Smith | Oh no, that's number two. | 29:44 |
| Felix Armfield | Okay. The last one. | 29:46 |
| Germaine Smith | Oh, the last one. Leroy. His first name is Leroy Smith. | 29:47 |
| Felix Armfield | Leroy Smith. Did Mr. Smith have a middle name? | 29:50 |
| Germaine Smith | Alton. A-L-T-O-N. | 29:55 |
| Felix Armfield | Okay. Do you recall his birthday? | 29:59 |
| Germaine Smith | Oh my God. May the 22nd, he was born, but I'm trying to remember. He was 11 years older than I. | 30:03 |
| Felix Armfield | And you were born in 1917. | 30:11 |
| Germaine Smith | '17. Figure it for me. | 30:11 |
| Felix Armfield | He was born 1906. | 30:11 |
| Germaine Smith | Yeah, that's right. That's it. See, I can remember now. | 30:22 |
| Felix Armfield | Told you I'd know. Now, when did he die? | 30:28 |
| Germaine Smith | When or where? | 30:30 |
| Felix Armfield | When? | 30:31 |
| Germaine Smith | Oh my God. He died about six years ago. | 30:36 |
| Felix Armfield | And this is 1994. So he died in 1988. | 30:47 |
| Germaine Smith | I think that's right. Yeah, just about six. Let see. He was born in May. I was away. Where was I when he died? I really can't remember the month right now. | 30:57 |
| Felix Armfield | Okay. 1988. I only want what you can remember. Where was your husband born, Ms. Smith? | 31:13 |
| Germaine Smith | He was born in Franklinton, Louisiana. | 31:20 |
| Felix Armfield | Franklinton. | 31:25 |
| Germaine Smith | Franklinton. I don't know— | 31:29 |
| Felix Armfield | What parish is that in? | 31:30 |
| Germaine Smith | I'm trying to remember what parish is that. | 31:30 |
| Felix Armfield | I can find out. | 31:36 |
| Germaine Smith | Franklinton. Honestly, I can't remember the parish right now. | 31:37 |
| Felix Armfield | That's fine. And now, what was his occupation? | 31:38 |
| Germaine Smith | His occupation? | 31:41 |
| Felix Armfield | What did he do for a living? | 31:44 |
| Germaine Smith | Well now, two things. Mainly he was a postal worker. He was a clerk in the post office, but he also was into insurance, because in the final analysis, he owned his own insurance agency. | 31:44 |
| Felix Armfield | Okay. Got it. Now, what was your mother's first name? | 32:00 |
| Germaine Smith | Rose. | 32:05 |
| Felix Armfield | R-O-S-E? | 32:06 |
| Germaine Smith | Mm-hmm. | 32:06 |
| Felix Armfield | Did she have a middle name? | 32:11 |
| Germaine Smith | Yes. Josephine. | 32:15 |
| Felix Armfield | Josephine Poché? | 32:15 |
| Germaine Smith | No, no, no. Dugas. D-U-G-A-S. | 32:22 |
| Felix Armfield | That was her last name. Now that wasn't her maiden name? | 32:26 |
| Germaine Smith | That was her maiden name. | 32:28 |
| Felix Armfield | No, no, I want— | 32:28 |
| Germaine Smith | Oh, no, Poché. She married a Poché. Yeah. I'm sorry. | 32:29 |
| Felix Armfield | All records that we'll find on her, that's how she's going to be listed. Now, her maiden name was— | 32:33 |
| Germaine Smith | Dugas. | 32:39 |
| Felix Armfield | Dugas. And that's— | 32:39 |
| Germaine Smith | D-U-G-A-S. | 32:40 |
| Felix Armfield | S. Okay. Now, can you recall your mother's birthday? | 32:47 |
| Germaine Smith | No, I really don't know. | 32:55 |
| Felix Armfield | When did your mother die? | 32:57 |
| Germaine Smith | My mother was only about 60— My mother died in 19— She died the same year before I got married. Let me think. | 32:58 |
| Felix Armfield | I remember you said something about something a little while ago. She died and something was going on. Wasn't it The time when you went to New Iberia? | 33:10 |
| Germaine Smith | She visited me in New Iberia before I married, so she must have visited me in '39, because I was teaching school in the country, and she wanted— | 33:21 |
| Felix Armfield | [indistinct 00:33:34]? | 33:32 |
| Germaine Smith | Yeah, and she wanted to visit the— Where Longfellow wrote this— Oh my God. My mother read so much. She visited me. I wasn't married yet. I was teaching school. That was '39. | 33:33 |
| Felix Armfield | Okay. Because you were taught out there from '39 to '40. | 33:49 |
| Germaine Smith | To '40. Yeah, I got married in '40. | 33:52 |
| Felix Armfield | Okay. Now when did your mother die? | 33:52 |
| Germaine Smith | She must have died in '40. | 33:56 |
| Felix Armfield | Did she pass before you got married? | 34:00 |
| Germaine Smith | She did. | 34:02 |
| Felix Armfield | Oh, Okay. And you got married what year? | 34:06 |
| Germaine Smith | I got married in '40, but my mother died in the winter months and I got married in the summer month of '40. | 34:09 |
| Felix Armfield | So she died in 1940. | 34:16 |
| Germaine Smith | She did die in '40? Yeah. | 34:17 |
| Felix Armfield | Okay. How old was she at the time when she died? | 34:18 |
| Germaine Smith | I think my mother was 69 when she died. Yeah. | 34:25 |
| Felix Armfield | Your mother was born in 1871. | 34:38 |
| Germaine Smith | Yeah. My mother had read a lot, and she wanted to visit the Evangeline Oak, and that's how she happened to come to New Iberia that year. And then I came down here. That was during the Christmas vacation. That's what it was. And she got a chance. | 34:46 |
| Felix Armfield | She did get to see the Evangeline Oak? Now explain to me what the Evangeline Oak is. | 35:02 |
| Germaine Smith | It's too long to go into, but there were two people that were lovers, Emmaline and I can't remember everything right now, but they crossed one another at an area at the Bayou where the Evangeline Oak is in St. Martinsville. That's in St. Martinsville. And my mother read a whole lot. Well, a lot of us in the family read. Well, I'm being a librarian too, I guess I read, but she wanted to visit that area where the Evangeline Oak was. And that's how she happened to come. | 35:09 |
| Felix Armfield | I've heard the stories since I've been in the area. I just wanted to [indistinct 00:35:42]. | 35:39 |
| Germaine Smith | No, but I don't remember all of it. I got read some more, but I go to the library. | 35:42 |
| Felix Armfield | Where was your mother born? | 35:47 |
| Germaine Smith | In Convent. Convent, Louisiana. | 35:49 |
| Felix Armfield | And we still don't know what parish that is? | 35:54 |
| Germaine Smith | Oh no. Convent is St. James. Oh yeah. No. I don't know where Leroy Smith Parish is. | 35:56 |
| Felix Armfield | Leroy Smith— | 36:02 |
| Germaine Smith | Well, no, that was my husband, number two. | 36:03 |
| Felix Armfield | You don't know where Franklinton, okay. | 36:05 |
| Germaine Smith | No, I'm not sure if that's St. Tammany or what. I don't remember the parish. | 36:06 |
| Felix Armfield | That's all right. I'll find out. You are so much fun, Ms. Smith. | 36:10 |
| Germaine Smith | I mean, I didn't mean to be funny. | 36:16 |
| Felix Armfield | No, no, no. I know. I was like, "Leroy?" Talking about, there's a Leroy Smith parish? What'd your mother do for a living? | 36:26 |
| Germaine Smith | What did she do what? | 36:30 |
| Felix Armfield | What did she do for a living? | 36:31 |
| Germaine Smith | Well, she never worked, she was just a housewife. She had nine children. | 36:33 |
| Felix Armfield | Okay. What was your father's first name? | 36:40 |
| Germaine Smith | Paul? His middle name? | 36:42 |
| Felix Armfield | Yep. | 36:46 |
| Germaine Smith | August. | 36:47 |
| Felix Armfield | Last name? | 36:51 |
| Germaine Smith | Poché. That's why my middle name is Augusta. I was named after him. Augusta. | 36:51 |
| Felix Armfield | And but his is August, right? | 36:57 |
| Germaine Smith | Oh yeah. Like the month. Like the month, yeah. | 36:58 |
| Felix Armfield | And do you remember your father's birthday? | 37:03 |
| Germaine Smith | No. Now, my daddy died the year I finished high school, which was— Let's see, I finished high school, 1934. My daddy died that June of '34. I think my daddy was— I don't know. I believe my daddy was like— I can't remember if he was in his 50s or 60s. If he was 60, he was in his early 60s, like 62. | 37:05 |
| Felix Armfield | He died in 1934, right? | 37:35 |
| Germaine Smith | Oh yeah. He died in '34. I remember that. | 37:35 |
| Felix Armfield | But you don't know his birthday? | 37:37 |
| Germaine Smith | No. All I remember, he stayed 49 for so many years. "I'm 49 years old. I never had a tailor made suit my life." And so he changed ages after a while. But my brother had a— | 37:52 |
| Felix Armfield | Sounds like he had a lot of your sense of humor. | 38:06 |
| Germaine Smith | Well, my brother had a tailor made suit. "I never had a tailor made suit." So I don't really remember his age when— But I know he wasn't too old. If I'm not mistaken, my daddy was like 50 something. Like 50, something like that. | 38:07 |
| Felix Armfield | All right. Your father was born in Convent also? | 38:26 |
| Germaine Smith | Oh yes. | 38:28 |
| Felix Armfield | And what did he do for living, Ms. Smith? | 38:28 |
| Germaine Smith | His main trade was a carpenter. | 38:43 |
| Felix Armfield | How many brothers and sisters did you have? | 38:57 |
| Germaine Smith | Well, now you meant— In the beginning my mother had two that died as infants. Okay. | 38:57 |
| Felix Armfield | Just the ones that survived. | 39:03 |
| Germaine Smith | The ones that arrived. We were seven that survived. Four girls and three boys. | 39:04 |
| Felix Armfield | Can I get the order, everybody's name in order? | 39:08 |
| Germaine Smith | Yeah. In order. | 39:12 |
| Felix Armfield | Oldest to the youngest. | 39:12 |
| Germaine Smith | Yeah. Okay. The oldest one who lived was Josephine. | 39:13 |
| Felix Armfield | Josephine Poché. | 39:20 |
| Germaine Smith | Well, but her middle name is Alma. But no, she was married to Jones, the Jones brother. | 39:21 |
| Felix Armfield | Okay. But still, she was— | 39:26 |
| Germaine Smith | She was Josephine, Alma— Uh-uh, say Poché. | 39:27 |
| Felix Armfield | Poché. Yeah. I want to work [indistinct 00:39:36] and not Puche. Poché. | 39:31 |
| Germaine Smith | No. Poché. | 39:33 |
| Felix Armfield | Okay. Ms. Smith. | 39:36 |
| Germaine Smith | Gussy. Call me Gussy. | 39:36 |
| Felix Armfield | [indistinct 00:39:43]. | 39:36 |
| Germaine Smith | I know. | 39:36 |
| Felix Armfield | Okay. Who's your next sibling? | 39:43 |
| Germaine Smith | Oh, let me see. Then Leslie, my brother Leslie, L-E-S-L-I-E. Leslie Poché. Leslie. Then Rose, R-O-S-E. And then Roland, it was a boy and a girl and a boy and a girl. Roland. R-O-L-A-N-D. Roland. Roland. Then Una, U-N-A. U-N-A. Her name is really Margaret Una, but we grew up calling her Una, but she was really christened Margaret. | 39:44 |
| Felix Armfield | And her name is Margaret? | 40:15 |
| Germaine Smith | Margaret. M-A-R-G-A-R-E-T. Yeah. But we never called her that. Everything went by Una, so. But baptismal. Margaret. Margaret. After Margaret Una. Okay. James. J-A-M-E-S. | 40:17 |
| Felix Armfield | And? | 40:30 |
| Germaine Smith | Oh no, I left somebody out. | 40:34 |
| Felix Armfield | Yourself. | 40:37 |
| Germaine Smith | Oh no I didn't. Leslie, Rose, no, I didn't leave anybody out yet. | 40:44 |
| Felix Armfield | You said them. | 40:44 |
| Germaine Smith | No. Okay, then I'm the last one. | 40:44 |
| Felix Armfield | Okay. Now I'll have to list you. You're the last child. You're the last of seven children. | 40:44 |
| Germaine Smith | Uh-huh. | 40:47 |
| Felix Armfield | Okay. Can you remember any of their birthdays? | 40:50 |
| Germaine Smith | I had that all on the sheet before I moved here. See, I've only been here about a year and I don't know where it is. But we all about two years apart. That's how I can figure the ages. Okay, let's go. Let's go. Josephine. Wait a minute. Josephine is the oldest living, she made 89 this year. | 40:53 |
| Felix Armfield | Oh really? | 41:08 |
| Germaine Smith | Josephine, yeah. | 41:09 |
| Felix Armfield | [indistinct 00:41:11]. | 41:10 |
| Germaine Smith | Okay. Now Leslie was two years younger. | 41:10 |
| Felix Armfield | I'm going to get it. Josephine here. | 41:13 |
| Germaine Smith | [indistinct 00:41:23] Was born in 1904. | 41:19 |
| Felix Armfield | 1905. | 41:19 |
| Germaine Smith | '05. Okay. Now, Leslie was born two years after her. So he must have been 1903, huh? | 41:25 |
| Felix Armfield | 1907. | 41:29 |
| Germaine Smith | I'm sorry, I'm going backward. Okay, then Rose was two years after him. Now, who is next? Roland. Okay. Two years. Now between Una and Roland was almost three years, so I'm not sure. And then James. | 41:33 |
| Felix Armfield | Two years? | 41:56 |
| Germaine Smith | He was two years. Because he would've been two years younger than I am. I mean, older than I am right now. So in other words, I was born in— | 41:57 |
| Felix Armfield | You don't know the year, because you— | 42:03 |
| Germaine Smith | Wait a minute, wait a minute. I was 17. | 42:05 |
| Felix Armfield | You were born 1917. | 42:07 |
| Germaine Smith | I was born 1917. Well, maybe the mistake is here. | 42:16 |
| Felix Armfield | Maybe this should be 1913. | 42:18 |
| Germaine Smith | Maybe so. 'Cause James was 1915 and I'm '17. That's the way it was. It's some kind of discrepancy between Roland and Una. I've forgotten. Looked like it was almost three years. But everybody else, that's how I keep up the ages. Almost everybody two years apart. | 42:21 |
| Felix Armfield | Now, who's living? | 42:37 |
| Germaine Smith | Only us— Only us. Josephine, 89. | 42:40 |
| Felix Armfield | You, the oldest and the youngest. | 42:43 |
| Germaine Smith | Right. | 42:45 |
| Felix Armfield | Okay. Can you remember the death dates of the others? | 42:46 |
| Germaine Smith | Oh, I had all of that, but I swear I don't remember now. | 42:51 |
| Felix Armfield | Okay. You don't know any of their death dates? | 42:53 |
| Germaine Smith | Una died 12 years ago. I had all that on paper. | 42:54 |
| Felix Armfield | 12 years ago? | 43:03 |
| Germaine Smith | Una died 12 years ago this year. Una died in of February the 19th, 12 years ago. | 43:06 |
| Felix Armfield | 1982. | 43:10 |
| Germaine Smith | Okay. Now, I can't remember the others right now, but I had— | 43:10 |
| Felix Armfield | February, you said? | 43:10 |
| Germaine Smith | Oh yeah, February the 19th. | 43:10 |
| Felix Armfield | 1982. Any others you [indistinct 00:43:28]. | 43:21 |
| Germaine Smith | I honestly. Now, I have that written, but I don't know where it is right now. I used to keep all this. | 43:27 |
| Felix Armfield | And everybody was born in Convent? | 43:34 |
| Germaine Smith | Oh yeah. Everybody. | 43:36 |
| Felix Armfield | Okay. How many children do you have? | 43:36 |
| Germaine Smith | Only two. | 43:36 |
| Felix Armfield | Okay. Can I get their name? The oldest. | 43:45 |
| Germaine Smith | Okay. My daughter. Germaine Anita. No, no, no, no, no. Now, I have only a boy and a girl. Her name is Germaine Anita Wilton. W-I-L-T-O-N. But her daddy was Viltz. | 43:47 |
| Felix Armfield | Wilton? | 44:04 |
| Germaine Smith | Yeah. W-I-L-T-O-N. That's her marriage name. | 44:05 |
| Felix Armfield | I-L-T— What's her maiden name? | 44:07 |
| Germaine Smith | Oh, Viltz. V-I-L-T-Z. V like in Victor— | 44:10 |
| Felix Armfield | I-L— | 44:13 |
| Germaine Smith | T-Z. Viltz. | 44:13 |
| Felix Armfield | T-Z. | 44:13 |
| Germaine Smith | That's German. But Wiltz should have been the family name. | 44:16 |
| Felix Armfield | Okay. And then what's your son's name? | 44:22 |
| Germaine Smith | Edward. Edward Gerald. G-E-R-A-L-D. Edward Gerald Viltz. Oh, he loves that name. | 44:24 |
| Felix Armfield | Oh really? | 44:34 |
| Germaine Smith | He was just here last weekend. He works in Maryland. No, he lives in Maryland. He works in Washington. Edward Gerald Viltz. Oh yeah. He used to work for IBM, but he quit. | 44:34 |
| Felix Armfield | What are your children's birthday? What's Germaine's birthday? | 44:43 |
| Germaine Smith | Germaine was January 25th, 1944, and Edward was March the 11th, 1947. They're three years apart. I was married three years, didn't have any, it was three years before I had one, and I had me another one. Of course, I'm past that age. | 44:46 |
| Felix Armfield | Germaine's around the same age as my father. | 45:04 |
| Germaine Smith | Really? She made 50 this year. | 45:09 |
| Felix Armfield | My father's 50. | 45:13 |
| Germaine Smith | Her birthday was January. Yeah. | 45:16 |
| Felix Armfield | My father [indistinct 00:45:17] next year. | 45:17 |
| Germaine Smith | Really? Where does he live? | 45:19 |
| Felix Armfield | My father? | 45:20 |
| Germaine Smith | Yeah. | 45:21 |
| Felix Armfield | North Carolina. | 45:21 |
| Germaine Smith | Oh, okay. | 45:22 |
| Felix Armfield | Now, where was Germaine born? What's her place of birth? | 45:23 |
| Germaine Smith | Boston. | 45:25 |
| Felix Armfield | Boston. | 45:25 |
| Germaine Smith | Edward? | 45:25 |
| Felix Armfield | Yes, ma'am. | 45:25 |
| Germaine Smith | Los Angeles. East and West? | 45:36 |
| Felix Armfield | East and west. | 45:37 |
| Germaine Smith | None for the homeland. | 45:39 |
| Felix Armfield | Okay. Now, do you have grandchildren? | 45:41 |
| Germaine Smith | I have five. | 45:47 |
| Felix Armfield | Okay. Now, you lived in New Orleans until you were— From 1922, I think you said. | 45:53 |
| Germaine Smith | '22 is when we moved. | 46:05 |
| Felix Armfield | And you stayed here until 1939, wasn't it? | 46:09 |
| Germaine Smith | Yes. Then I moved to Iberia when I got married. | 46:14 |
| Felix Armfield | Went to New Iberia. And how long did you stay in New Iberia? You didn't stay that long, because you all left for Boston. | 46:18 |
| Germaine Smith | No, no, no. Yeah, when I got pregnant. | 46:30 |
| Felix Armfield | And that was 19— | 46:32 |
| Germaine Smith | Because I was three years married before I got pregnant, so. | 46:33 |
| Felix Armfield | Oh, three years? Yeah. So you left in 1942. | 46:37 |
| Germaine Smith | Okay. | 46:40 |
| Felix Armfield | Okay. And now, you move on to Boston after New Iberia? | 0:19 |
| Germaine Smith | Right. | 0:24 |
| Felix Armfield | Boston, Massachusetts. And how long did you remain in Boston? | 0:27 |
| Germaine Smith | Until about, my daughter was about two. I must have left there in '45. | 0:37 |
| Felix Armfield | After the war was over, so '45/'46? | 0:46 |
| Germaine Smith | Yeah. Maybe '46. | 0:48 |
| Felix Armfield | And then you went to California? | 0:55 |
| Germaine Smith | When I went to New Iberia for a while. | 0:58 |
| Felix Armfield | New Iberia again? | 0:58 |
| Germaine Smith | Yeah, for just a short time. And then my husband sent for me. I must've only been there about a year. | 1:02 |
| Felix Armfield | Okay, 1947. And then you went off to California? | 1:08 |
| Germaine Smith | Yeah, because Edward was born in California, but he was a premature baby. So Edward was born in May, I mean March the 11th of '47. | 1:11 |
| Felix Armfield | Exactly, so that's when you get to California. | 1:20 |
| Germaine Smith | Well, I got pregnant right away. | 1:25 |
| Felix Armfield | You might have been pregnant when you got there. | 1:28 |
| Germaine Smith | Oh, no, no, no. We weren't together. In other words, we hadn't been together for a little while. | 1:30 |
| Felix Armfield | Oh, okay, so you obviously got pregnant right away [indistinct 00:01:39]. | 1:37 |
| Germaine Smith | I did, I did. | 1:38 |
| Felix Armfield | Okay. | 1:40 |
| Germaine Smith | Oh yeah, he was in the incubator at the Queen of Angels. | 1:41 |
| Felix Armfield | Okay. | 1:45 |
| Germaine Smith | Oh, yeah. He was— | 1:46 |
| Felix Armfield | I bet he didn't look like he was a premature baby. | 1:46 |
| Germaine Smith | Oh, Lord, not now. Oh, no. He was here just last week. | 1:48 |
| Felix Armfield | Really? | 1:52 |
| Germaine Smith | He's a fine boy. Yeah, that's right. Edward was a premature baby. | 1:52 |
| Felix Armfield | And how long did you stay in California? You came back here and [indistinct 00:02:04]. | 1:59 |
| Germaine Smith | When Edward was four, Edward was going on five when I came back here to live. And Edward is is 47 now, so— | 2:04 |
| Felix Armfield | '52. | 2:11 |
| Germaine Smith | Okay. | 2:11 |
| Felix Armfield | You came here in 1952. | 2:11 |
| Germaine Smith | Okay. | 2:14 |
| Felix Armfield | And that's New Orleans and you remained. | 2:16 |
| Germaine Smith | I've been here, yeah, except traveling. | 2:18 |
| Felix Armfield | Oh. | 2:18 |
| Germaine Smith | Globe travel. | 2:18 |
| Felix Armfield | 1952 to present. | 2:18 |
| Germaine Smith | Until now, mm-hmm. Boy, this is a whole lot of work, huh? | 2:24 |
| Felix Armfield | And where you finished high school? | 2:27 |
| Germaine Smith | Xavier Prep. | 2:29 |
| Felix Armfield | And that was New Orleans? | 2:34 |
| Germaine Smith | Yeah, '34. | 2:35 |
| Felix Armfield | You finished in 1934? | 2:39 |
| Germaine Smith | Mm-hmm. | 2:40 |
| Felix Armfield | So you were there from 1930? | 2:41 |
| Germaine Smith | '30, mm-hmm. | 2:42 |
| Felix Armfield | To 1934. See, look how you remember, just pop. | 2:44 |
| Germaine Smith | Uh-uh. | 2:49 |
| Felix Armfield | You graduated with the class of 1934 from Xavier Prep with an high school diploma. | 2:49 |
| Germaine Smith | Right. | 2:55 |
| Felix Armfield | You must have been a prized possession in 1934. | 2:55 |
| Germaine Smith | I know. It was a struggle though because my dad was sick. | 3:00 |
| Felix Armfield | Uh-huh. | 3:04 |
| Germaine Smith | That was a struggle. | 3:04 |
| Felix Armfield | Really? Because your father died what year? | 3:05 |
| Germaine Smith | He died that same year. | 3:07 |
| Felix Armfield | Sure did? | 3:08 |
| Germaine Smith | Yeah. | 3:09 |
| Felix Armfield | Ooh. | 3:09 |
| Germaine Smith | I got finished in June. | 3:09 |
| Felix Armfield | He was definitely [indistinct 00:03:10]. | 3:09 |
| Germaine Smith | Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. | 3:09 |
| Felix Armfield | Okay. And you went on to Xavier University? | 3:13 |
| Germaine Smith | Right. They had this program called the NYA, National Youth Administration. | 3:18 |
| Felix Armfield | Oh, okay. Is that how your education responded? Through National Youth Administration. Now, did you just go through— Was there a local branch here? | 3:25 |
| Germaine Smith | I imagine so. I didn't know too much about it all. I know it was administered through the dean at Xavier, because I went two years and I got so disgusted because it was a struggle. And my mother was still living, my grandmother was still living and it was hard. And so, I dropped out about a week. And the dean called me to find out what was the matter and I told her I couldn't afford it. So she said, "Well, if you come back, I'll increase your little—" Whatever the hell she was giving me on NYA, about two more dollars, so I guess from $7 to $9. I know it sounds like a joke. | 3:35 |
| Felix Armfield | But that covered your tuition [indistinct 00:04:21]? | 4:19 |
| Germaine Smith | But my mother was able to give me car fare because I had to ride the streetcar. I couldn't walk to the university, so at that time, streetcar fare was 7 cents each way. | 4:20 |
| Felix Armfield | Okay. | 4:34 |
| Germaine Smith | And the lunch was a dime. So for a quarter, 25 cents a day, my mother gave me that. And then, I was able to pay my tuition with the NYA money. | 4:34 |
| Felix Armfield | Really? Now, you graduated with the class of 1939 at Xavier University? | 4:48 |
| Germaine Smith | Mm-mm, '38. | 4:57 |
| Felix Armfield | Oh, in '38? Okay. | 4:57 |
| Germaine Smith | But I had to go to school in the summer to finish in four years because I changed my major. | 4:58 |
| Felix Armfield | Okay, okay. | 5:01 |
| Germaine Smith | I went back to school, however. | 5:02 |
| Felix Armfield | Class of 1938 from Xavier. And you had a BA or a BS? | 5:04 |
| Germaine Smith | BA. | 5:09 |
| Felix Armfield | And you later went back to get an MLS? | 5:12 |
| Germaine Smith | Oh, yeah, but after my children were grown and everything. | 5:15 |
| Felix Armfield | And where'd you get that from? | 5:17 |
| Germaine Smith | Loyola. | 5:17 |
| Felix Armfield | And when did you do that? | 5:17 |
| Germaine Smith | Oh, Lord, I went to school four, five summers. | 5:18 |
| Felix Armfield | From around what time? | 5:31 |
| Germaine Smith | Let's see. I just talked to my friends. | 5:33 |
| Felix Armfield | When did you finish the degree? | 5:39 |
| Germaine Smith | What was it, a B— | 5:41 |
| Felix Armfield | You got a BA. | 5:42 |
| Germaine Smith | MS and LS, a Master. | 5:44 |
| Felix Armfield | MLS. | 5:46 |
| Germaine Smith | In library science. | 5:46 |
| Felix Armfield | Masters in library science. | 5:46 |
| Germaine Smith | Yeah. | 5:47 |
| Felix Armfield | And you got it what year? | 5:48 |
| Germaine Smith | Let me see. My children were all gone away at that time. That's swear I can't remember. | 5:51 |
| Felix Armfield | Okay, don't worry about it. We just know you got an MLS at some point from Loyola University. | 5:58 |
| Germaine Smith | But it took me about five summers because I had to go some summers to Xavier, some summers to Loyola. | 6:05 |
| Felix Armfield | Okay. And your last job was what? | 6:11 |
| Germaine Smith | A librarian. | 6:16 |
| Felix Armfield | With whom? Who was your employer? | 6:19 |
| Germaine Smith | Guardian's Public school Board. I mean Audience Parish school Board. | 6:23 |
| Felix Armfield | Okay. | 6:27 |
| Germaine Smith | But this particular school was Craig School on St. Phillip Street, an elementary school. I was a librarian. | 6:28 |
| Felix Armfield | That's here in New Orleans? | 6:34 |
| Germaine Smith | Oh, yeah. But when I left the classroom— | 6:35 |
| Felix Armfield | How long did you do that? From when did you? | 6:44 |
| Germaine Smith | Oh, God, I must have retired in 1978 or '79. | 6:44 |
| Felix Armfield | Probably early in 1979. | 6:50 |
| Germaine Smith | That must have been at— | 6:50 |
| Felix Armfield | [indistinct 00:06:53]. | 6:50 |
| Germaine Smith | When did they put me out the classroom? You see, they took me out of the classroom to begin centralizing elementary school libraries in the beginning. And I can't remember which year they took me out. I really— | 6:55 |
| Felix Armfield | When did you teach? You were teaching before you were a librarian? | 7:13 |
| Germaine Smith | Yeah. | 7:15 |
| Felix Armfield | And you were teaching with the Orleans— | 7:18 |
| Germaine Smith | Parish School Board, the same. I worked for the same system. | 7:20 |
| Felix Armfield | When did you start teaching for Orleans Parish School Board? | 7:24 |
| Germaine Smith | Oh, gosh. I really can't remember the date. | 7:32 |
| Felix Armfield | It must have been around '52/'53. | 7:37 |
| Germaine Smith | It was in the '50s. | 7:41 |
| Felix Armfield | '53 when you came back, because you said you came back in '52. | 7:42 |
| Germaine Smith | Oh, I did substitute work. | 7:45 |
| Felix Armfield | Substitute— | 7:46 |
| Germaine Smith | And then the next year, yeah. | 7:46 |
| Felix Armfield | Was 1953. | 7:48 |
| Germaine Smith | Oh, okay. Isn't that terrible? | 7:51 |
| Felix Armfield | No, [indistinct 00:07:53]. Miss Smith, you are hilarious. | 7:53 |
| Germaine Smith | Why? | 8:01 |
| Felix Armfield | Can we say from 1953 to 1979, you worked with the Orleans Parish School Board? | 8:03 |
| Germaine Smith | Yeah. | 8:09 |
| Felix Armfield | Well, actually 1952. | 8:09 |
| Germaine Smith | I know. | 8:09 |
| Felix Armfield | When you start [indistinct 00:08:14]. | 8:09 |
| Germaine Smith | I know, I did substitute. | 8:14 |
| Felix Armfield | Okay. | 8:15 |
| Germaine Smith | Every day. You'd swear I was regular. | 8:16 |
| Felix Armfield | Total of 1952 to 1970. | 8:18 |
| Germaine Smith | Yeah, when I retired. Mm-hmm. | 8:22 |
| Felix Armfield | Okay. | 8:26 |
| Germaine Smith | Boy, they giving you some work. You have to do all this everywhere as you went? | 8:29 |
| Felix Armfield | Yes, ma'am. | 8:34 |
| Germaine Smith | You know you're not taping. Oh, yes you are. | 8:37 |
| Felix Armfield | Have you ever received any awards or honors or held any offices that you'd like to mention at this time? | 8:43 |
| Germaine Smith | Well, I made the dean's honor roll in school. I don't think I've— | 8:50 |
| Felix Armfield | Okay, [indistinct 00:08:56]. All right, and you are Catholic? | 8:54 |
| Germaine Smith | Yeah. | 9:00 |
| Felix Armfield | What's your church affiliation, Miss Smith? | 9:04 |
| Germaine Smith | Well, since I'm here, this church here. But I think the church I would say would be St. Raymond's because that's the closest church over there. They have church services here. I don't have to get out the building. | 9:07 |
| Felix Armfield | Okay. And you enjoy the services here? | 9:24 |
| Germaine Smith | Oh, yeah. In other words, the people who are not Catholic here don't have services here. They have to go to their own church. But by this being run by a nuns and they got to appreciate who's the chaplain. Like today at five o'clock, there's a mass. If I go at five today, I don't have to go in the morning. It'll suffice for Sunday obligation. | 9:26 |
| Felix Armfield | So you'll sleep? You get to sleep in tomorrow? | 9:49 |
| Germaine Smith | Well, if I don't go to mass this afternoon, I'll go in the morning for eight o'clock. | 9:49 |
| Felix Armfield | Okay. | 9:55 |
| Germaine Smith | Which is nice. | 9:55 |
| Felix Armfield | Yeah. Do you belong to any civic community, educational, political organizations right now? | 9:56 |
| Germaine Smith | Well, my main connection has been with the Louisiana Education Association, which is known as the LEA. I belong to the ARP. | 10:02 |
| Felix Armfield | AARP? | 10:14 |
| Germaine Smith | The American Association of Retired People. | 10:18 |
| Felix Armfield | Mm-hmm. | 10:21 |
| Germaine Smith | And I belong to the American Library Association, ALA. And so for my affiliations, that's about it. | 10:21 |
| Felix Armfield | Okay, that's fine. Now, what do you love doing? What's your hobby? | 10:35 |
| Germaine Smith | Well, I like fun. I like anything recreation, anything to get my mind off of the routine of the day. I have a good sense of humor. I haven't lost it. I like to attend stage plays. I still like operas. I like good television programs, I mean not just anything. I like entertainment in general. In music, I like musicals. And like I said, I can enjoy— What do they call this now? What do they call that? Rap? | 10:41 |
| Felix Armfield | Rap music? | 11:37 |
| Germaine Smith | I have a grandson who's into rap and I can enjoy rap as well as operas. I can enjoy Andre Kostelanetz, I can enjoy Duke Ellington, I can enjoy Fats Domino, things of that type. But I'm more or less like sentimental music. | 11:38 |
| Felix Armfield | Mm-hmm. | 12:00 |
| Germaine Smith | The oldest, let's put it like that. The oldest, I love that. You see, I'm enjoying this right now. | 12:00 |
| Felix Armfield | Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. | 12:08 |
| Germaine Smith | I don't enjoy cards or things like that, I don't belong to any bridge clubs. I don't care much for that. I have to— | 12:17 |
| Felix Armfield | The only other thing I need from you now is for you to sign the agreement that we can house the tapes and they can be used for scholarly research and things of that nature such that we can begin to fill in those gaps in history that have been missing simply because we did not have. That's Jermaine Smith's story. | 12:24 |
| Germaine Smith | How about that? Makes me feel important. | 12:48 |
| Felix Armfield | You are important. | 12:51 |
| Germaine Smith | Now just here, huh? | 12:52 |
| Felix Armfield | Just sign on that line. | 12:53 |
| Germaine Smith | Oh, okay. | 12:54 |
| Felix Armfield | And I'll fill in the rest. An important part of history has been missing because we didn't have your story. | 12:55 |
| Germaine Smith | Really? | 13:03 |
| Felix Armfield | [indistinct 00:13:10]. | 13:03 |
| Germaine Smith | You know what's going to happen? I'm going to be talked about here. I don't understand some of the people in here. Some of them, I can't even learn a new word from them. They gossip. | 13:09 |
| Felix Armfield | You're going to be talked about? | 13:24 |
| Germaine Smith | You know what happens? See, whenever I make a trip, I try to make a trip to him once a year, to my daughter once a year. He sends a limo to pick me up. And I got talked about, "Look at her in a limousine," like that. But as long as my son can afford it, if I travel, I'm going to have a limo to pick me up here and bring it back from the airport. | 13:24 |
| Felix Armfield | Why not? | 13:53 |
| Germaine Smith | Right. | 13:54 |
| Felix Armfield | I hope to be able to do it someday myself. | 13:56 |
| Germaine Smith | Are you married? | 14:00 |
| Felix Armfield | Hm? | 14:01 |
| Germaine Smith | Are you married? | 14:02 |
| Felix Armfield | No, ma'am. I'm still single. | 14:03 |
| Germaine Smith | Oh, boy. | 14:04 |
| Felix Armfield | Still trying to get done with school. | 14:05 |
| Germaine Smith | Isn't that wonderful? | 14:05 |
| Felix Armfield | Oh. And right now, I'm still single. | 14:05 |
| Germaine Smith | My son didn't marry until he was 32, I think. And he's still with that wife. | 14:18 |
| Felix Armfield | Some of us just wait [indistinct 00:14:28], some of us never do it. | 14:27 |
| Germaine Smith | I know. | 14:28 |
| Felix Armfield | Okay. | 14:28 |
| Germaine Smith | You don't have a card or something? Just give me your name someplace. | 14:37 |
| Felix Armfield | I'll leave my name. | 14:42 |
| Germaine Smith | Because I want to tell sister and when some of the people inquire. | 14:42 |
| Felix Armfield | Okay. | 14:45 |
| Germaine Smith | I'd like to tell them what it was all about. | 14:47 |
| Felix Armfield | [indistinct 00:14:49]. Assist you in that endeavor as much as I can. Okay, I thank you for your time. | 14:51 |
| Germaine Smith | My pleasure. | 15:03 |
| Felix Armfield | Yes, ma'am. It has been a pleasure talking with you. You've just provided a wealth of information. | 15:04 |
| Germaine Smith | I wish I had been bit a little more prepared, organized. | 15:11 |
| Felix Armfield | That's the thing about these interviews, we don't want those kinds of things. | 15:15 |
| Germaine Smith | You don't? | 15:19 |
| Felix Armfield | We don't want you sitting down, reading for a piece of paper. We want you talking from the top of your head, sharing a conversation. You and I sharing the conversation just like we're old friends. And I think we did that. | 15:19 |
| Germaine Smith | I have a book that was published and it tells all about the area in which I was born, and the first settlers. The name of the book is called [indistinct 00:15:43]. And the lady who wrote it is now deceased, but she mentions all my family names and how we got there. | 15:32 |
| Felix Armfield | Really? | 15:52 |
| Germaine Smith | Uh-huh. | 15:53 |
| Felix Armfield | That must be fascinating. | 15:53 |
| Germaine Smith | And it's out of print, but I have a copy that my sister bought. | 15:54 |
| Felix Armfield | Yeah, yeah. Well, thank you so much for your time. I really appreciate it. | 16:00 |
| Germaine Smith | You're quite welcome. | 16:05 |
| Felix Armfield | Your time spent here with me. And again, I will be forever in your debt. | 16:12 |
| Germaine Smith | Well, that was really my pleasure. My pleasure. | 16:15 |
| Felix Armfield | I have enjoyed it. | 16:18 |
| Germaine Smith | I really enjoyed it. | 16:19 |
| Felix Armfield | Thank you. | 16:20 |
| Germaine Smith | I feel honored that I could do something. | 16:20 |
| Felix Armfield | And I'm honored. I, too, am honored to have this opportunity to accept your [indistinct 00:16:27]. And we have turned the tape player back on because Miss Smith has just realized that the time that she spent in New Iberia, Louisiana, she had contact with Weeks Hall and we'd like to hear that story. Okay. And again, I'm Felix [indistinct 00:16:54] and we're still talk talking with— | 16:23 |
| Germaine Smith | Jermaine. | 17:00 |
| Felix Armfield | Miss Jermaine Smith. Okay, Miss Smith? | 17:01 |
| Germaine Smith | My brother-in-law, the Theophile Viltz worked for Weeks Hall throughout many years. | 17:04 |
| Felix Armfield | And it's Theophile? | 17:13 |
| Germaine Smith | T-H-E-O-P-H-I-L-E, Theophile Viltz. | 17:15 |
| Felix Armfield | Spell Viltz. | 17:21 |
| Germaine Smith | V-I-L-T-Z, V like in Victor. | 17:22 |
| Felix Armfield | Okay. | 17:27 |
| Germaine Smith | In fact, I had mint juleps, frozen mint juleps then. | 17:27 |
| Felix Armfield | Okay. | 17:32 |
| Germaine Smith | Silver goblets with Weeks Hall at the Shadows when I've— | 17:33 |
| Felix Armfield | That was there at the old plantation home that sits on Main Street? | 17:38 |
| Germaine Smith | Yes. | 17:42 |
| Felix Armfield | Which is now Shadows-on-the-Teche? | 17:42 |
| Germaine Smith | Yes. | 17:44 |
| Felix Armfield | You have mint— | 17:45 |
| Germaine Smith | Julep. | 17:47 |
| Felix Armfield | Julep? | 17:47 |
| Germaine Smith | I had to use a napkin to hold the silver goblet to keep the frost from freezing my hand. | 17:48 |
| Felix Armfield | Okay. And when was this? | 17:58 |
| Germaine Smith | I can't remember exactly when, but it was about the first year that I married O'Neil Viltz, which was still Theophile's brother, O'Neil Viltz. O-N-E-I-L was my husband number one. And I visited the Shadows on many occasions. | 17:58 |
| Felix Armfield | Uh-huh. | 18:18 |
| Germaine Smith | Weeks Hall was— | 18:19 |
| Felix Armfield | Clearly, you were going there in the early '40s? | 18:21 |
| Germaine Smith | Right, right. Yes. I don't— | 18:24 |
| Felix Armfield | Before you left there to go to Boston when your husband [indistinct 00:18:31]— | 18:28 |
| Germaine Smith | Oh, yes. | 18:30 |
| Felix Armfield | —for the war. | 18:31 |
| Germaine Smith | Right. | 18:32 |
| Felix Armfield | Okay. But go on. | 18:32 |
| Germaine Smith | I even was permitted to two of the mansion, which very few people had an opportunity. Even now when you visit there, you cannot go up in the attic where there are pirate's chests. I saw a garment that was supposed to have been used by Lafitte pirate. In fact, there was a cut in it. | 18:34 |
| Felix Armfield | Oh, really? | 19:02 |
| Germaine Smith | And I was told that Lafitte was stabbed because he did hijack boats. And of course, the bayou was an outlet that the parish used to come. And I understand that Lafitte used to come to the Shadows to hide out after he had robbed the ships of their booty. | 19:03 |
| Felix Armfield | Yeah. Was this during Weeks Hall lifetime? | 19:33 |
| Germaine Smith | Prior. Prior. His parents, yes. | 19:38 |
| Felix Armfield | Was Lafitte— | 19:41 |
| Germaine Smith | Oh, a long time before. | 19:42 |
| Felix Armfield | Yeah? | 19:43 |
| Germaine Smith | But they have all of these relics there, which I'm sure the last time I visited the Shadows, I was not allowed to go in the attic where there were supposedly pirate's treasures. However, when I visited there, when I lived there, I was permitted. And I visited the entire area. I went to the Bayou because the bayou is right at the back area of the grounds of the Shadows. | 19:44 |
| Felix Armfield | Mm-hmm. | 20:15 |
| Germaine Smith | And I knew Weeks Hall's aunt. She lived here in New Orleans. Her name was Miss Celimene. I don't know how to spell that. I think it's C-E-L-I-M-E-N-E— | 20:16 |
| Felix Armfield | [indistinct 00:20:31] C-E or— | 20:26 |
| Germaine Smith | C-E-L-I-M-E-N-E. And her last name was Torian, T-O-R-I-A-N. Celimene Torian. And she lived here in New Orleans. That was Weeks Hall's aunt. And I also visited her home, and I knew her housekeeper and her housekeeper gave me two vases that are now in possession of my son. Very lovely antique vases. | 20:31 |
| Felix Armfield | How did you have such access to Weeks Hall? | 21:00 |
| Germaine Smith | Because my brother-in-law was a caretaker. | 21:04 |
| Felix Armfield | That's right. | 21:10 |
| Germaine Smith | Theophile Viltz. | 21:10 |
| Felix Armfield | But see, that's still you and Weeks Hall were on friendly tournaments. | 21:11 |
| Germaine Smith | Of course. | 21:13 |
| Felix Armfield | What do you recall of Weeks Hall? What kind of person was he? | 21:15 |
| Germaine Smith | There are some things I would not want to mention, but he was an artist. He was a painter. | 21:18 |
| Felix Armfield | Okay. | 21:25 |
| Germaine Smith | He was injured in a car accident and he could not use his hand very much to paint. | 21:26 |
| Felix Armfield | Okay. | 21:33 |
| Germaine Smith | I recall his hand being in a cast and he didn't have great mobility of that hand, but he did painting. | 21:33 |
| Felix Armfield | Mm-hmm. | 21:41 |
| Germaine Smith | And I remember there was a particular door that had the signatures of a lot of celebrities that visited there. | 21:42 |
| Felix Armfield | The door was hanging [indistinct 00:21:53] at the time? | 21:52 |
| Germaine Smith | No, no, no. Well, no, no, no. It had been taken down. | 21:53 |
| Felix Armfield | Mm-hmm. | 21:57 |
| Germaine Smith | No, in the early days it was still hanging when I first saw it, but in recent years, I saw it has been put against the wall and their signatures of Cecil B. DeMille. And I couldn't tell you how many people, famous people, whose autographs or signatures on that wooden door. I know about eight years ago, I visited and I saw that same door. A lot of the furniture has been changed around. Weeks Hall had pictures made of the furniture in every room in the house to be sure that the furniture would remain there, none of it would've been taken away. | 21:59 |
| Germaine Smith | I recall that because my husband was interested in amateur photography, and that's how I got to see a lot of the photographs of the pictures of the mansion and the arrangement of the furniture. I found out that Weeks Hall was somewhat of an oddball, I would say, because he paid some of the workers, including my brother-in-law, to bring women there to have sex with him while he watched. | 22:40 |
| Felix Armfield | While who watched? | 23:12 |
| Germaine Smith | Weeks Hall. | 23:13 |
| Felix Armfield | Oh, your brother-in-law to have sex with them? | 23:15 |
| Germaine Smith | Yeah. Not just him, some of the other workers, because he had several men who worked there, all Black men. | 23:17 |
| Felix Armfield | Uh-huh. | 23:23 |
| Germaine Smith | And I was told that accidentally. I wasn't supposed to know that. | 23:25 |
| Felix Armfield | Mm-hmm. | 23:30 |
| Germaine Smith | But I understand that was the extent of the type of sex life Weeks Hall enjoyed. | 23:32 |
| Felix Armfield | Okay, okay. Now you said there was some things you wouldn't dare mention. | 23:39 |
| Germaine Smith | Well, I didn't want to mention that, but I did. | 23:43 |
| Felix Armfield | Okay. | 23:45 |
| Germaine Smith | That was it. | 23:45 |
| Felix Armfield | Okay. | 23:46 |
| Germaine Smith | Because I don't think anybody of the younger generation would know anything about that. I only knew it because my brother-in-law worked there, and he didn't tell me nor did my husband tell me, but someone else who worked there told me about it accidentally. | 23:47 |
| Felix Armfield | Your brother-in-law wasn't going to tell you? | 24:04 |
| Germaine Smith | Oh, no. | 24:06 |
| Felix Armfield | That he was— | 24:06 |
| Germaine Smith | Oh, no. That would— No, because he would probably lose his job too, if it got around or if I talked it to his wife, who was my neighbor at the time. But Weeks Hall was a very peculiar person. He was good to his help, very good to his hope. If I'm not mistaken, he left my brother-in-law money in his will. He was buried right there on the grounds. Did you know that Week's Hall— | 24:07 |
| Felix Armfield | Yep, mm-hmm. | 24:33 |
| Germaine Smith | —was buried on the grounds? And the grounds, all of that was called the Shadows because they had those bamboos all around. But the last time I went, all that has been cut down. You can see the mansion better now than you used to see it in the years that I lived out there. | 24:34 |
| Felix Armfield | Okay. | 24:53 |
| Germaine Smith | You could not see it at all. That's one of the reasons I think it was called the Shadows. | 24:54 |
| Felix Armfield | Okay. | 24:58 |
| Germaine Smith | Because it was behind all these very, very tall bamboos. | 24:59 |
| Felix Armfield | Okay. | 25:06 |
| Germaine Smith | Yeah. | 25:06 |
| Felix Armfield | So you really couldn't see back? | 25:06 |
| Germaine Smith | Oh, no, you couldn't. You had to go into the grounds. And at that time you couldn't visit because Mr. Hall was living there. | 25:06 |
| Felix Armfield | Yeah, it wasn't [indistinct 00:25:14]. | 25:13 |
| Germaine Smith | No, no, no, it was— | 25:14 |
| Felix Armfield | You just stopped [indistinct 00:25:16]. | 25:15 |
| Germaine Smith | Oh, no. Now it's like a museum. | 25:16 |
| Felix Armfield | Oh, yeah. | 25:18 |
| Germaine Smith | You pay to go in. I never did have to pay because I went to visit and sat with Week's Hall and talked. And as I said, mint juleps, I've never yet had a mint julep to compare because I haven't had a mint julep that the glass was frosty because it was silver. And to drink the mint julep, you had to hold the goblet with a napkin or else it would stick to your hand, the frozen goblet would stick to your hand. Weeks Hall had Theophile Viltz, who was working for him at the time, prepare mint juleps for me and my husband, O'Neill Viltz, who was Theophile Viltz's brother. And that was my husband at the time. | 25:18 |
| Felix Armfield | Oh, wow. Okay. Thank you so much for this insight that you've shared on the Shadows. | 26:05 |
| Germaine Smith | The Shadows-on-the-Teche. | 26:11 |
| Felix Armfield | As well as Weeks Hall [indistinct 00:26:17]. | 26:12 |
| Germaine Smith | He was a very eccentric person. Very eccentric. | 26:16 |
| Felix Armfield | Mm-hmm. | 26:19 |
| Germaine Smith | But he greeted me and seemed to have been happy for me to visit. Although, I didn't visit often, at least three times during his lifetime, I visited the Shadows. | 26:20 |
| Felix Armfield | I wonder why people called him so eccentric. Was it because— I don't know. I don't know why. I'm still curious as to why people refer to him as so eccentric. | 26:37 |
| Germaine Smith | I don't actually know. But I found that he was more or less to himself, it seemed that he didn't mingle too much. Maybe not with the people of the community, maybe just with celebrities. | 26:44 |
| Felix Armfield | Mm-hmm. | 26:58 |
| Germaine Smith | I never really got to know too much about him, but just in his mannerisms when I was in his company, I thought he was eccentric. | 27:00 |
| Felix Armfield | Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. Okay. Thank you so much [indistinct 00:27:22]. | 27:14 |
| Germaine Smith | You're quite welcome. | 27:21 |
| Felix Armfield | A prize interview. Thank you. | 27:23 |
| Germaine Smith | You're quite welcome. | 27:25 |
| Felix Armfield | Thank you. | 27:26 |
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