Kate Ellis: You were just saying that the government stepped in in the '70s? Emmett E. Cheri Sr.: Yeah, and started—And they had to have a certain amount of Blacks. They had to hire so many Blacks. Kate Ellis: That's when— Emmett E. Cheri Sr.: And you had to hire them into certain positions as well. Kate Ellis: Okay. Okay. Emmett E. Cheri Sr.: You see, we didn't have any dispatchers, we didn't have any foremans as Blacks. Then after the government stepped in there, then they had so many foremans. Kate Ellis: There was this whole shift in the trucking industry, a lot of it because of—It sounds like because of the racial politics in the company? Emmett E. Cheri Sr.: Yeah, in this part of the country. This part of the country. We're speaking of the South. Kate Ellis: The Southern [indistinct 00:00:46]— Emmett E. Cheri Sr.: I'm speaking of the southern portion of the country. Kate Ellis: It was different in—Yeah. Emmett E. Cheri Sr.: Yeah. From the northern portion of the country because I can't answer for them. I don't know if they had line drivers up in that area running up from that area into the—Up along the Eastern Seaboard and around the West Coast. I don't know. But I'm just talking about in the southern district here. And we didn't have any Blacks or that sort of things that they had. But other than that, though, they treated you fair. They didn't abuse you, they didn't misuse you or anything like that. Kate Ellis: In the trucking? In this business? Emmett E. Cheri Sr.: In the industry? No. They didn't, no, no. Kate Ellis: They were just sort of— Emmett E. Cheri Sr.: You did your job and that was all that they was interested in seeing. Because the old man, Mr. Harry Nault, he was interested in his money. He didn't care what color you was. You made the money for him, that's all he was interested in. Kate Ellis: What I was going to ask. There was some question I had. Emmett E. Cheri Sr.: I got something else in there. During that period of time, y'all had a bigger problem. My biggest problem, you talk about race and segregation and hatred, my biggest problem was with my teachers. Kate Ellis: With your teachers? Emmett E. Cheri Sr.: I had two high school teachers—Three, as a matter of fact. I won't call names, but I had three high school teachers that almost denied me an education. Kate Ellis: Now, were they White? Emmett E. Cheri Sr.: No. Kate Ellis: They were Black? Emmett E. Cheri Sr.: They were Black. Kate Ellis: Now, what do you mean they almost denied you an education? Emmett E. Cheri Sr.: Well, what they did, one of them, I never will forget my geometry teacher told me—He told me with my pigmentation and the texture of my hair, that I wouldn't amount to nothing but a service station attendant or a shoe shine boy. And he done everything, he and I, we got into a misunderstanding because he wanted me to dig a jump pit for the young girls. The school board's paying that maintenance man or somebody else to dig that pit. They want me to dig that pit and willing to pay me the same pay, I'll dig that pit. I have nothing against that. It's an honest living. Kate Ellis: Right, you'll work for money. Emmett E. Cheri Sr.: That's right, but I wouldn't—He sent me to the office and the principal, he told me I was a troublemaker and I tried to explain it to him. I was not a troublemaker. I said, "You check my grades." I said, "If I was a troublemaker, when you get my grades back there, you tell me if I'm a troublemaker." They got my grades, but he did. Yes, he got my grades and they come back, I had an 86 average. He looked at me and he told me, he said, "Well, you must have a problem some other way." Kate Ellis: The principal said this? Emmett E. Cheri Sr.: Yeah, so he put me out. Kate Ellis: What do you mean? Emmett E. Cheri Sr.: He just suspended me. Kate Ellis: He suspended you because you had refused— Emmett E. Cheri Sr.: Because I refused to dig that pit and that was his teacher. Well, I got back into school, but it was a hard, hard thing, believe me. And then I would go and tell him and he would tell me about, "You'll never amount to nothing like your brother and all this kind of stuff." Kate Ellis: Who said this to you? Emmett E. Cheri Sr.: The teacher. Kate Ellis: Right. Emmett E. Cheri Sr.: The teacher. Kate Ellis: Because of the color of your skin? Emmett E. Cheri Sr.: Oh yeah. Got to believe it. Yes, sir. Oh, well see, when I was in high school, you didn't have very many kids from in the uptown area. It seems as though the kids from in the uptown area were more of a dark skinned than the kids from in the downtown area. Like I told you, it was a mixture where I was born and bred, more or less, they were more of a mixture downtown. Kate Ellis: Which was downtown. Emmett E. Cheri Sr.: Downtown. Kate Ellis: Which included Creole? Emmett E. Cheri Sr.: Creoles. This is strictly what it's all about. When they were in my class, I was the darkest fellow in the classroom. Most of the majority of them had straight hair and fair complexion. Kate Ellis: In high school? Emmett E. Cheri Sr.: In high school. Kate Ellis: Uh-huh. Emmett E. Cheri Sr.: Oh yeah. I never had no problem in grammar school. I had no problem whatsoever in elementary school. I just gave the teachers a lot of problem, but I never had really no problem with anyone. Because my first day, my very first day when I reached Albert Wicker High School, my algebra teacher—I was a little, bitty fellow like this and she told me, "You can't come into my class." What did I do to this woman that she didn't want in this classroom? I stayed out of her class for two weeks. Well, I was getting all the information and everything on what the classroom work and everything was and I studied it. Emmett E. Cheri Sr.: Then she sent for me. She told me, she said, "If you make a favorable grade on this test, I'll give you credit for the two weeks that you was out." She set me in her desk like you sitting there. I was sitting behind her and the students was in front and facing her. I took the little test that she gave me. It was very simple. I made 100 on the test. She graded my paper, she put me out completely. She told me I didn't need the class at all. Kate Ellis: Really? Emmett E. Cheri Sr.: Really. But I— Kate Ellis: But why did she kick you out in the beginning? Emmett E. Cheri Sr.: I haven't the faintest idea. Never knew why she did it. I'll never know. And then I was picked up one evening coming from the school, and I'll never forget that coming from the alley way. I didn't know who these guys was, these White fellows. Kate Ellis: This is junior high school and you're picked up— Emmett E. Cheri Sr.: And I was picked up on my way. The guy grabbed me behind my back. I a little, bitty fellow. I was real young and real small in high school. I didn't know what I'm doing around that school like that because they were supposed to be having trouble. I didn't even know anything about what kind of trouble. Well, they had these White girls was coming from the school, which is, I think it's Clark now today. And they were coming towards Canal Street and these kids from Canal was going down. I didn't know that they were having problems, that they were having conflict thing. He picked me up and "What the hell is going on?" Kate Ellis: That's what you said? Emmett E. Cheri Sr.: I didn't know what was going on. Then he wanted know what—And I told him, I said, "I'm coming from school." Emmett E. Cheri Sr.: He said, "What school?" And I told him that I was Wicker High, right at Canal and Tortie. He put me in the car and told me that there's no way in the world I would be in high school. Kate Ellis: Why? Emmett E. Cheri Sr.: Because I was so small and little. Then they brought me all the way back to the school, brought me up there. Good thing the principal was still in the school, up in school. When they brought me up the steps and everything else, they brought into the office and he asked him if I was a student. Then he looked at me, he asked me my name, I told him my name. He said, "Oh yeah, yeah, he's at the school." By that time they had notified my mother that they had picked me up. Kate Ellis: And these were just White guys? They weren't White policemen? Emmett E. Cheri Sr.: Yeah, they were detectives. Kate Ellis: Okay, detectives. Emmett E. Cheri Sr.: They were detectives. By that time, I was able to get back to my mother to let her know that everything was all right. They just picked me up because I was a little, bitty thing. I was real small. I was a little, bitty thing. As a matter of fact, I was in—We had what they call a manual training period. And instead of putting me in manual training, which was carpentry and masonry, they had me in sewing and cooking. Kate Ellis: Really? Because you were so small? Emmett E. Cheri Sr.: I was so small. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. When I went in the service, I was 120 pounds. Kate Ellis: Oh, wow. Emmett E. Cheri Sr.: Soaking wet. Kate Ellis: Really? You were a small guy. Emmett E. Cheri Sr.: Yeah, but I was a healthier fellow though. I had no problems. I got along fine. Kate Ellis: You were healthy. Emmett E. Cheri Sr.: But that was the only problem that I had. But I didn't let them to stop me from— Kate Ellis: And when you say them, you're also talking about the teachers in your high school? Emmett E. Cheri Sr.: Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. They showed a lot of prejudice now. I ain't going to tell you— Kate Ellis: You think that there was— Emmett E. Cheri Sr.: There were a lot of prejudice among the races. The races themselves. Black people were prejudiced against themselves. Kate Ellis: Really? How so? Can you describe that to me more? Emmett E. Cheri Sr.: Yeah. Well, they still have that. You still have that in families. In families. When sisters and brothers denies one another. Kate Ellis: Because one is— Emmett E. Cheri Sr.: One is light and one is dark. Kate Ellis: The light one is— Emmett E. Cheri Sr.: The light one, and he socialize with his particular group and he you don't want that group to know that you're a part of that family. Kate Ellis: Which is a darker family? Emmett E. Cheri Sr.: The darker—Well, I'm saying that brothers—Sisters and brothers. You figure in my family, like I was telling you, my sisters and brothers, well, they had families like that. They had sisters and brothers like that and they wouldn't socialize with one another. And he was in here, he would be with that group that would just socialize, just with the light skins. And the other one, well, he would never introduce that party as being associated as a brother or— Kate Ellis: Did that ever happen in your family? Because you mentioned that in your family— Emmett E. Cheri Sr.: Oh yes, they did. Kate Ellis: There was— Emmett E. Cheri Sr.: Oh, yes. Oh. Yes, it happened. Sure, sure, sure, sure. Oh, yeah. Kate Ellis: Among your brothers and sisters? Emmett E. Cheri Sr.: Among the family, yeah. Brothers and sisters, yeah. Not my sisters. My brothers. Kate Ellis: Yes. Because some of your brothers, you said, I think, were lighter than you? Emmett E. Cheri Sr.: Light skinned, yeah. Yep. Yeah, people may not believe that, but that's a fact. Kate Ellis: Yeah, yeah. Emmett E. Cheri Sr.: Oh, yeah. And then the children come out, they talk about it because they didn't realize what's going on and they can't understand this. Why? What was the reason? What was the advantage? What was the disadvantage? There isn't an answer. Kate Ellis: [indistinct 00:09:44]— Emmett E. Cheri Sr.: There isn't an answer. Kate Ellis: Yeah, to why people do that? Emmett E. Cheri Sr.: Why? Yes, that's right. Why they didn't. It still goes on. Oh yes, indeed. I can take you right there in that Seventh Ward right now. They got families in there that's Black families and they might be relatives but they won't let you inside. Kate Ellis: Wait, say it again? They— Emmett E. Cheri Sr.: They'll be related to one another, they will not let that party inside of the house— Kate Ellis: And they're a different skin color. Emmett E. Cheri Sr.: —because of the texture of their skin. That's all, the pigmentation of their skin. That's right. Kate Ellis: Let me ask you, does it go both ways as far as light skinned folks rejecting the darker skinned brothers and sisters or family members, and darker skinned folks rejecting their lighter—Do you see what I'm asking? Does the prejudice go both ways? Emmett E. Cheri Sr.: Yeah. You mean if the dark person would go against the light skinned person? Kate Ellis: Yeah. Emmett E. Cheri Sr.: Yeah, sure they do that. Yeah. That's what I'm saying. That's crazy. Kate Ellis: They both, they're each, "You're too light. You're too dark." Emmett E. Cheri Sr.: Oh, yeah, right. If you are light-skinned person, not a dark-skinned, I'm angry because you're light-skinned with fancy hair or straight hair. You understand? The light skin, it's against them because of the pigmentation of the skin, yeah. I'm not just saying that it falls on just one face of it. Kate Ellis: They each do— Emmett E. Cheri Sr.: No, it's on both sides. Both sides of it, they have a prejudice among themselves. Kate Ellis: Yeah. Emmett E. Cheri Sr.: Really, it's crazy, but that's the way it works. And you have it right out here, right in this same area. Kate Ellis: That same area? Emmett E. Cheri Sr.: In this area right here. Take my neighbor. My neighbor there, her people didn't have no use for her husband, her second husband. Kate Ellis: Why? Was he light or dark? Emmett E. Cheri Sr.: In the beginning. No, he was dark. Her first husband was very fair. Kate Ellis: But they didn't want to have anything to do with the second one because he was dark? Emmett E. Cheri Sr.: Well, it was that family. That was that family. That was that—Well, I don't—That was just that family then. If you look at her sisters, they didn't have any problem being White. Kate Ellis: They didn't have any problem? Emmett E. Cheri Sr.: Being White. They could go any way they wanted to go. Kate Ellis: They could pass? Emmett E. Cheri Sr.: They could go any kind of way they wanted to go. Kate Ellis: I was going to ask you about that. Actually why— Emmett E. Cheri Sr.: Anywhere they wanted to go. Kate Ellis: Did you know people who passed for White? Emmett E. Cheri Sr.: Mm-hmm. Kate Ellis: When you were growing up? Emmett E. Cheri Sr.: Mm-hmm. We didn't object to it. Kate Ellis: You didn't? Emmett E. Cheri Sr.: No, because that's the only way that they can make it. That was the only way that they could get a decent job. No, no, you didn't get angry with them. Because the ones that we knew them had done it, they didn't deny you. Kate Ellis: They didn't deny you? Emmett E. Cheri Sr.: No, they wouldn't say that—They wouldn't spit on me because of they knew I knew what they were doing, but they would still socialize in a certain sense with me, away from where they were at. Kate Ellis: Right. They had a double life? Emmett E. Cheri Sr.: Well, yes, quite a few of them had to live that double life to survive. Kate Ellis: Yeah. Emmett E. Cheri Sr.: Many of them, many of them, many, many of them had to do it, believe me, to survive. Because it was hard. It was very hard. Kate Ellis: To make it, to get a job? Emmett E. Cheri Sr.: Oh, yes. Kate Ellis: As a Black person? Emmett E. Cheri Sr.: Yes indeed, as a Black person, yes indeed. And as a light-skinned person to work into the—They're mostly doing domestic work, they didn't want to hire them because most of the White ladies would figure that that's a light-skinned young lady, she would flirt with her husband or something of this nature. Therefore they wouldn't hire them as domestics. Kate Ellis: Interesting. Interesting. Emmett E. Cheri Sr.: Yeah. Kate Ellis: I just had to interject this. I heard a story about that recently where it was a light-skinned woman working in a household that got the most abuse in a sense, from the people working in there. I think it was from the White homeowner, because she was really threatened by her. Emmett E. Cheri Sr.: Certainly. Kate Ellis: But it can go the other way too. Emmett E. Cheri Sr.: Oh, yeah. But one of the things about it, in most cases like that though, you know what? It was happening, they did have quite a few White mens that had Black women for their mistress. They took care of them, but they were free. They could walk around the street openly. Nobody said nothing about them. Kate Ellis: The White men could with the Black women? Emmett E. Cheri Sr.: Oh yeah, they could walk—Oh, yes indeed. Walk openly. Whether they were jet Black or the white as snow, they walked the street with them and nobody said nothing. But you better not be caught walking the street with a White woman, a Black man. Kate Ellis: Right. Emmett E. Cheri Sr.: But the White man could walk the street with a Black woman. Yes indeed. There was nothing ever said. And you better not mention nothing to him about her. You better not even say that she's Black. Kate Ellis: One of those things that you knew, buy you don't— Emmett E. Cheri Sr.: And she would be Black. She'd be jet Black but don't you tell anybody that that's a Black woman. That's the way it was. They could do what they want. Like I said, that was a matter of survival. You did what you had to do. And if you was in that position and you was able to do it— Kate Ellis: And that was understood among Black [indistinct 00:14:44]— Emmett E. Cheri Sr.: I think that's how my mother—I think my mother was able to get the job in a funeral home, because she was light-skinned and then she didn't have—She just had the light skin at that time, so that's just one of the things, I think this is how she was able—She got it. You got along with them. Kate Ellis: Right. Do you think that they—Do me a favor and [indistinct 00:15:10]. Do you think that they knew—Did the people in the funeral home know that she was not White? Emmett E. Cheri Sr.: Oh, yeah. Kate Ellis: But they just sort of— Emmett E. Cheri Sr.: Oh, yeah [indistinct 00:15:19]— Kate Ellis: —they let her work there because— Emmett E. Cheri Sr.: —that didn't make any difference. It's just that— Kate Ellis: But she was light enough that they were comfortable? Emmett E. Cheri Sr.: Light, light, right. Kate Ellis: That they were comfortable. Emmett E. Cheri Sr.: Right, right. It was comfortable and everybody would be comfortable. Whether they knew or not, they were comfortable. That didn't matter, but when the question of my texture, you understand naturally they could see the differences. Therefore— Kate Ellis: Right, it was obvious. Emmett E. Cheri Sr.: Yeah. There sometimes would be little questions about it. Because they didn't have Black drivers, but there were limousine drivers, like chauffeurs. They were the chauffeurs. The hearse driver was White. But all the rest of them was—They had Black drivers. Some of them, some of them didn't. The ones that were paying the money, all the White funeral homes were paying the money to the limousine drivers and everything else, but Black companies couldn't afford to pay that kind of money. Most of the experienced Black chauffeurs would go to work for the White funeral home. Kate Ellis: Yeah, because they got more money and then— Emmett E. Cheri Sr.: They made more money and they worked more often too, you see. Kate Ellis: There was more work? Emmett E. Cheri Sr.: There was more work. Kate Ellis: Yeah. Emmett E. Cheri Sr.: And they knew what you had to do. There was a lot involved and such, because whether they had a funeral or not, they still had to wash the limousine every day. They had to keep it up and everything else. There was a little work involved into it, but most of the time they always was busy working, making funerals. Kate Ellis: For the people that you knew who passed or knew of who passed, who got a job, the employers didn't always know, right? It was sometimes a secret? Emmett E. Cheri Sr.: Oh, it was sometime before they found out. Eventually they found out. Kate Ellis: Employers would find out? Emmett E. Cheri Sr.: Oh, eventually, yeah, they would find out. Kate Ellis: What would happen when the employers would— Emmett E. Cheri Sr.: But they would never challenge it though. Kate Ellis: The employers wouldn't? Emmett E. Cheri Sr.: No, no, no. Kate Ellis: In a sense, if you were light enough, Emmett E. Cheri Sr.: Yeah— Kate Ellis: Most would let it go. Emmett E. Cheri Sr.: They had an idea, but they would never challenge it. Kate Ellis: I see. Kind of sounds like an implicit agreement among everybody, among members in the so-called Black community to not call attention to Joe Smith, who's passing as a White person, and the employer who's employing Joe Smith wouldn't say anything? Nobody would say anything? Emmett E. Cheri Sr.: Nobody wouldn't say nothing, because really and truthfully, it was hard. It was hard sometimes, because you never know. What's happening during that—In this city here, like you, well, you're a White girl right now, a young lady. Excuse me for calling you a girl. A young lady. When you were born, most of these kids were born by midwives during my time. What happened, they would present this to them in the register. He'd look at you, he's put White on it. He wouldn't no, he'd just take it for granted you're a White person, you see? You'd put White. Race, White. You couldn't argue with them because I'd get my birth certificate, "What that has on my birth certificate? That says I'm White." Kate Ellis: I'm white. Emmett E. Cheri Sr.: Therefore, [indistinct 00:18:12] these are the things that you had to—That's happened several times recently, that families were challenged and, hey, well, they made a mistake. In the register, whatever he said, 90% of the times, when you were Black, you didn't argue with it. Whether he misspelled the name or not, you went along with it, because you better not challenge him. Kate Ellis: Oh, really? The register was always White, yeah. Emmett E. Cheri Sr.: They were White. You're going to embarrass that fellow by telling him he didn't know what he was doing? He didn't know how to spell? Oh no, indeed. No indeed. They would've more policemans around. Kate Ellis: Really? Emmett E. Cheri Sr.: Of course they would. They could do what they wanted to you. What could you do? You didn't have no rights. You didn't have the right to vote or nothing else in here. I tell you, him what paying poll tax and the only one who paid poll tax was those that was homeowners. And how many Blacks then was homeowners? You didn't have no say so. You had no voice. You just was a free slave, that's all, in those circumstance. Kate Ellis: Yeah. When you were growing— Emmett E. Cheri Sr.: During this time, yeah, when I was born. My sister and I generally have a lot of arguments about it. She'll tell me, "Oh, that's not your name." Emmett E. Cheri Sr.: I said, "Well, I don't know why you say that." Kate Ellis: What's not your name? Emmett E. Cheri Sr.: My name? I spell mines E-M-M-E-T-T. But my mother always said my name was Emmitt, E-M-M-I-T. See that? I can't do—I don't know that. I say, "Now, that's what you said, but you far younger than me and I can't understand that stuff." And all my brothers and sisters were saying, my daddy—I was 11 years old. If my name is not E-M-M-E-T-T, I know as smart as my father was, he wouldn't allow my name to be E-M-M-E-T-T when it was E-M-M-I-T-T. But if that's the way it was supposed to have been, it's what it is now. I've gone through life with that name and it's on my birth certificate. Kate Ellis: But what was your sister trying to tell you when she said that's not your name? Was she saying the register— Emmett E. Cheri Sr.: Well, somebody was wrong. Somewhere's along the line, somebody goofed up. Either me. Until I prove to her that I have it on my birth certificate. As a matter of fact, I have three different birth certificates. Kate Ellis: You do? Emmett E. Cheri Sr.: All from the—Yeah. And all from the same guy and all three spelling is different. Kate Ellis: How'd that happen? Emmett E. Cheri Sr.: It's all from the guy. They got everything, the same date, everything is all the same. See, that's what I'm trying to tell you. They do what they want to do. They do what they want to do. But see, when I had it, I went up there to get my passport when I left to go overseas again, so I had to have all my birth certificates. I went up there and I challenged them, wanted to know. She said, "Well, what did you go by?" Emmett E. Cheri Sr.: I told, "As long as I know, I went by E-M-M-E-T-T. She looked at it up and she said, "Well, that's your name. That's your social security number. That is your name. Uncle Sam said this is you." And as a matter of fact, she told me, she said, "Well, you should know better that there's no correct spelling or pronunciation of a proper name." I said, "Well, I can understand that. I'd just like to have it straight." Emmett E. Cheri Sr.: She said, "Well, don't worry about that. What counts is C-H-E-R-I. Kate Ellis: Your last name? Emmett E. Cheri Sr.: That's it. The family name. She said, "Whatever, you don't worry about nothing else." Emmett E. Cheri Sr.: I said, "Okay." Kate Ellis: Yeah. Huh. Wow. Emmett E. Cheri Sr.: But that's a little experience that you go through. A lot of things that you go through. A lot of things that you think of and you wonder. And many a times I sit down here and I wonder how my mother made it really? With six kids, six small children. Kate Ellis: Yeah, that's amazing. Emmett E. Cheri Sr.: And the oldest was 14. That's something. Kate Ellis: Yeah, that's a lot. Emmett E. Cheri Sr.: That's right. And she sent every one of us, educated every one of us. If my mother said, "I want you in that house there for 6:00," you were in that house. I can remember an incident. I was out of the service and I was sitting at the table and our kitchen was similar to this. And I happened to be sitting there and Mama was serving dinner. Don't ask me what did I say, but I said something. Boy, my good God almighty, I had a backhand hit me right square. And up until this day, all my sister and all of them, they all was at the table, but nobody can tell me what I said that caused my mother to give me that backhand. I was 21 years old. Kate Ellis: And you were just out of the Army, you said. Emmett E. Cheri Sr.: Right, I was 21 years old when she slapped me. I don't even remember what I said. Up until this day, I can't remember. Maybe I'm supposed to forget what she said. Kate Ellis: Right. Knocked it right out of your head. Emmett E. Cheri Sr.: But they used to have an attitude too, when they didn't want you to understand anything they would say. Here and her lady friend, the lady would be talking to, they would speak French, Cajun French, and I always used to wonder why my mother never taught us how to speak French. Kate Ellis: Huh. She knew how to— Emmett E. Cheri Sr.: And my great aunt spoke French, but she never would— Kate Ellis: Now, how does she know how to speak French? Emmett E. Cheri Sr.: Oh, everyone knows, I guess. Well, my great-aunt did it in the country. Kate Ellis: I'm just trying to think, your great—Oh, well, wait a minute. Emmett E. Cheri Sr.: Down that bayou there, that's the— Kate Ellis: Now, you said your mother was light-skinned. Emmett E. Cheri Sr.: Yeah. Kate Ellis: Was one of her parents—Did you tell me this? Was one of her parents French or White or Creole? Emmett E. Cheri Sr.: My grandmother. Kate Ellis: On your mother's side? Emmett E. Cheri Sr.: Yeah. Now I don't know about my mother's grandparents. Kate Ellis: Well, that's what I'm asking, because you said— Emmett E. Cheri Sr.: I don't know any of my mother's grandparents. Kate Ellis: Okay. You don't know how she learned how to speak French. Emmett E. Cheri Sr.: I don't even know—I don't know my grandmother or grandfather, but I don't know my mother's grandfather. Kate Ellis: Because you see what I'm asking? Emmett E. Cheri Sr.: Yeah, I understand that. But they were light-skinned. Kate Ellis: She's light-skinned and she's speaking French— Emmett E. Cheri Sr.: But they were light skinned, you see? Kate Ellis: Who was light-skinned? Emmett E. Cheri Sr.: My mother and all her people were light-skinned. But on my mother's father's side, now they were dark skinned. Kate Ellis: On your mother's father's side. Right. Emmett E. Cheri Sr.: Yeah. Kate Ellis: But you don't know about your mother's— Emmett E. Cheri Sr.: I don't know about my mother's— Kate Ellis: Your mother's side. Emmett E. Cheri Sr.: —mother's side. The grandparents on either side. I don't know them. Yes. I don't know that. I don't know what color they were. I don't know whether they were were French or what they were. Kate Ellis: Or whether they were French. Yeah, I just was wondering whether— Emmett E. Cheri Sr.: No, I don't know— Kate Ellis: —because you said that she spoke French, I just thought, oh, I wonder where she learned how to speak that. Emmett E. Cheri Sr.: I really don't. We knew that the name Cheri was French. We were trying to find out if my grandfather was from the island or was he born on the French—The settlers that was slave owners and he took the name of Cheri? We don't know, because it's only a very few. Only the Cheri sisters and brothers and uncles that's listed in the phone book. That's the only Cheris they have in the city of New Orleans. Kate Ellis: Oh, really? It's not a large— Emmett E. Cheri Sr.: Oh, no, no, no, no, no. Kate Ellis: Well, I think that we should move on to— Emmett E. Cheri Sr.: Signing all of these papers. Kate Ellis: —these questions. Because if you can believe it, we've been talking for— Emmett E. Cheri Sr.: Since about two hours. Kate Ellis: —for about two hours. But see, now do have a better—You now must have a better sense of what I was curious about. Okay, so your last name is Cher, C-H-E-R-I, E-M-M-E-T-T. Emmett E. Cheri Sr.: Right. Kate Ellis: What is your middle name? Emmett E. Cheri Sr.: Emmanuel. Kate Ellis: Can you spell that? Emmett E. Cheri Sr.: E-M-M-A-N-U-E-L Kate Ellis: E-L. Okay. Emmett E. Cheri Sr.: You got it? Kate Ellis: Yes. E-M-A-N-U— Emmett E. Cheri Sr.: Uh-uh! E-M-M. Kate Ellis: Oh, two M's. Okay. Emmett E. Cheri Sr.: A-N-U-E-L. Emmanuel. Kate Ellis: Okay, and— Emmett E. Cheri Sr.: Just like the Bible. Kate Ellis: Okay. That's easy. Now, what's your address? Emmett E. Cheri Sr.: 4628 Mithra, M-I-T-H-R-A. Kate Ellis: Street. Emmett E. Cheri Sr.: The old French wood. Kate Ellis: New Orleans. And what's your zip code? Emmett E. Cheri Sr.: 70126. Kate Ellis: 26. And you were born in New Orleans? Emmett E. Cheri Sr.: Right. Kate Ellis: And your birthdate was? Emmett E. Cheri Sr.: 12-24-24. Kate Ellis: Oh, that's a good one. And your principal occupations were truck— Emmett E. Cheri Sr.: Yeah, 18-wheeler. Kate Ellis: Okay. I'm going to say truck driver. Emmett E. Cheri Sr.: Yeah, a truck driver more or less. Kate Ellis: Yeah. And before that, it was truck driver— Emmett E. Cheri Sr.: Most of it was truck driver. Kate Ellis: Truck driver? Okay. And— Emmett E. Cheri Sr.: Or driver, whatever. Kate Ellis: Okay. This asks for the same thing. I'll fill it in later. Let me just move—Okay, how would you like your name to appear in written materials? Would you like it to be Emmett Emmanuel Cheri or Emmett E. Cheri? Emmett E. Cheri Sr.: Yeah, Emmett E. Cheri would more probably. Kate Ellis: Okay. Emmett E. Cheri Sr.: Yeah. Senior. Kate Ellis: Senior? Emmett E. Cheri Sr.: Senior. Kate Ellis: Okay. Emmett E. Cheri Sr.: Senior, because I wouldn't want to confuse it with Junior. Kate Ellis: Oh, okay. You have a son with the same name? Emmett E. Cheri Sr.: My son is, yeah. My oldest son is. That's why I just realized that. Kate Ellis: Okay. Emmett E. Cheri Sr.: Do you need me to still have this— Kate Ellis: Oh, what I usually do is record this part. Emmett E. Cheri Sr.: Oh, okay. Kate Ellis: Which, I only do it because sometimes when I ask these questions, something else comes up and it's always good to have it on record. Are you divorced or widowed? Emmett E. Cheri Sr.: Yes, divorced. Kate Ellis: You're divorced? Okay. What was your spouse's name? Emmett E. Cheri Sr.: Delores. Kate Ellis: What was her middle name? Emmett E. Cheri Sr.: I don't know much in there, but I know she was- Kate Ellis: But she was Dolores? Emmett E. Cheri Sr.: Just Scott. Kate Ellis: I'm sorry? Emmett E. Cheri Sr.: Scott. Kate Ellis: Dolores Scott. Do you remember when she was born? Emmett E. Cheri Sr.: Let's see, she was born On—what was that? March the 10th, '31. Kate Ellis: Okay. Emmett E. Cheri Sr.: Yeah, what's that, the 3rd, 10th, 31? Kate Ellis: Yeah. And where was she born? Emmett E. Cheri Sr.: New Orleans. Kate Ellis: Did she have an—Oh no, she was a housewife with you, right? Emmett E. Cheri Sr.: Right. Kate Ellis: Okay. Your mother's name? Full name? Emmett E. Cheri Sr.: Rosa. Kate Ellis: Rosie? Emmett E. Cheri Sr.: Yeah, that's Rosa, R-O-S-A. Kate Ellis: R-O-S— Emmett E. Cheri Sr.: A, Rosa. R-O-S-A. Kate Ellis: Rosa. Do you have her middle name? Emmett E. Cheri Sr.: Mary, more or less. Mary. Mary. Kate Ellis: Rosa Mary. Emmett E. Cheri Sr.: Mary. M-A-R-Y. What, you want her full name? Kate Ellis: Say it again. I want her full name. Rosa? Emmett E. Cheri Sr.: Mary. Kate Ellis: M-A-R-Y? Emmett E. Cheri Sr.: Y, right. Kate Ellis: And her last—And Cheri? Emmett E. Cheri Sr.: Right. That's her married name. Kate Ellis: I am spelling your name right. It's C-H-E-R-I. Emmett E. Cheri Sr.: C-H-E-R-I, yes. Kate Ellis: Okay. And what was her maiden name? Emmett E. Cheri Sr.: Poison. Kate Ellis: Can you spell that? Emmett E. Cheri Sr.: P-O-I-S-I-O-N. P-O-I-S-O-N. That's the right name. Kate Ellis: That's the way. Like Poison? Emmett E. Cheri Sr.: Poison, yeah, that's the French way, Poison. Most of them say Poison. Kate Ellis: They mostly say—Yeah. Emmett E. Cheri Sr.: I know you noticed rubbing my arm, huh? Kate Ellis: Just a minute ago, because you're— Emmett E. Cheri Sr.: Yeah, well, you know what that is? I'm [indistinct 00:30:18], but really and truthfully, this is from the insulin. Kate Ellis: From insulin? Emmett E. Cheri Sr.: Yeah, I'm a diabetic. Kate Ellis: Oh, you are? Oh. Emmett E. Cheri Sr.: And insulin— Kate Ellis: You get that reaction? Emmett E. Cheri Sr.: Yeah. Kate Ellis: Does it itch a lot? Emmett E. Cheri Sr.: Sometimes. Most of the time when it's hot, when it gets hot in this time of the evening. And when I have the—I use this like that to put on it. Kate Ellis: Oh, yeah. Okay, what was her date of birth? Do you remember? Emmett E. Cheri Sr.: My mother was born on February the 25th, 1895. Kate Ellis: And do you remember when she died? Emmett E. Cheri Sr.: March the 16th. Yeah, March 16th. Kate Ellis: 1952? Emmett E. Cheri Sr.: 1959. Now, wait a minute now, let me get this straight now. Is she the 15th? Yeah, I think she's the 15. Yeah, she's the 16th. March 16th, 1952. I got to get them because my daughter was born on the day before, I know, the day before she died. Kate Ellis: Now, where was your mother born? Emmett E. Cheri Sr.: My mother was born in Paincourtville, Louisiana. Kate Ellis: Can you spell that? Emmett E. Cheri Sr.: P-A-I-N-C-O-U-R-T-V-I-L-L-E. Kate Ellis: Louisiana? Emmett E. Cheri Sr.: Mm-hmm. Kate Ellis: And she made tobacco, made cigars? Emmett E. Cheri Sr.: Yeah, well— Kate Ellis: Was that her occupation? Emmett E. Cheri Sr.: Well, she was a housewife. Kate Ellis: Okay, I'm going to say housewife. Emmett E. Cheri Sr.: She was a housewife, yeah. Kate Ellis: Can I then put down that—Oh no, and then she was a cook? Emmett E. Cheri Sr.: Then she was a cook. Yeah, you could put the housewife and cook. Kate Ellis: Okay. And your father's name? Emmett E. Cheri Sr.: Fernand. F-E-R-N-A-N-D. Kate Ellis: F-E-R-N-A-N-D? Emmett E. Cheri Sr.: J. Kate Ellis: J? Emmett E. Cheri Sr.: Which is Joseph, yeah. Kate Ellis: Joseph? Emmett E. Cheri Sr.: Uh-huh. Kate Ellis: Fernand Joseph— Emmett E. Cheri Sr.: Joseph Cheri. Kate Ellis: Remember his date of birth? Emmett E. Cheri Sr.: August the 1st, 1895. Kate Ellis: And his death? Emmett E. Cheri Sr.: August the 31st, 1936. Kate Ellis: And he was born? Emmett E. Cheri Sr.: New Orleans. Kate Ellis: And his occupation? He worked- Emmett E. Cheri Sr.: Printer. Kate Ellis: Printer? Right. Emmett E. Cheri Sr.: Printer. Printer. I got to use his Southern swirls, you know what I mean? You can understand that from the Eastern Seaboard a little different. In pronunciations anyway. Kate Ellis: And the sisters and brothers, now you were the second oldest? Emmett E. Cheri Sr.: No, the third. Kate Ellis: Third oldest? Can you tell me the names of your— Emmett E. Cheri Sr.: Fernand is the oldest. Kate Ellis: Your brother? Emmett E. Cheri Sr.: Fernand. He's a Junior. Kate Ellis: And when was he born? Emmett E. Cheri Sr.: He was born February the 25th, 1922. Same day as my mother. Kate Ellis: Did you say '22? Emmett E. Cheri Sr.: 1922. Kate Ellis: Is he still alive? Emmett E. Cheri Sr.: Yeah. Kate Ellis: Okay. And he was born in—Everybody was born in New Orleans? Emmett E. Cheri Sr.: New Orleans. Kate Ellis: And then what about the next one? Emmett E. Cheri Sr.: Lionel. Kate Ellis: Lionel. His birthday? Emmett E. Cheri Sr.: Lionel was May the 30th, 1923. Kate Ellis: And then after you? Emmett E. Cheri Sr.: Was Emmett, then—After me? Kate Ellis: Yeah. Emmett E. Cheri Sr.: Well, my sister, Selika. Kate Ellis: How do you spell that? Emmett E. Cheri Sr.: S-E-L-I-K-A. Kate Ellis: Her birthday? Emmett E. Cheri Sr.: Selika was November the 22nd, '26. Kate Ellis: And then after her? Emmett E. Cheri Sr.: It's Miriam. Kate Ellis: Her birthday? Emmett E. Cheri Sr.: June the 21st, '30. Kate Ellis: And then your brother? Emmett E. Cheri Sr.: That's deceased? Kate Ellis: Yeah. Emmett E. Cheri Sr.: Okay, well, he was born on September the 5th, '32. Kate Ellis: When did he die? Emmett E. Cheri Sr.: March the 29th, '87. Kate Ellis: What was his name? Emmett E. Cheri Sr.: Earl Cheri. Kate Ellis: Okay. And then the names of your children? Emmett E. Cheri Sr.: Oh, you want my children? Okay, I got Emmett, which is the Junior. Kate Ellis: And when was he born? Emmett E. Cheri Sr.: April 29, '53, Kate Ellis: Where was he born? Emmett E. Cheri Sr.: New Orleans. Kate Ellis: They were all born in New Orleans? Emmett E. Cheri Sr.: All of them born in New Orleans, yes. And I have David. Kate Ellis: David? Emmett E. Cheri Sr.: That's right. Kate Ellis: When was he born? Emmett E. Cheri Sr.: 1-12-55. Kate Ellis: And after him? Emmett E. Cheri Sr.: Trina. Trina's May the 2nd, 1957. Then I have Bernadette, July the 12th, 1958. And Merrilyn, M-E-R-R-I-L-Y-N. Kate Ellis: Merrilyn. Emmett E. Cheri Sr.: She's on the 15th of March, 1963. Kate Ellis: '63? Emmett E. Cheri Sr.: We had a little slip there. We had five years different between Merrilyn. Kate Ellis: And you have six grandchildren? Emmett E. Cheri Sr.: Six grandchildren. Kate Ellis: Okay. Now, you have lived in New Orleans and then have you lived anywhere besides New Orleans? Emmett E. Cheri Sr.: No. Kate Ellis: Besides being overseas in the service? Emmett E. Cheri Sr.: No. Kate Ellis: How long were you in the service? Emmett E. Cheri Sr.: Three years. Kate Ellis: Okay. What were the—Because I'm going to say you were in New Orleans from—What was the year that you were born again? Emmett E. Cheri Sr.: I was born in '24. Kate Ellis: 1924. To when did you enter the service? Emmett E. Cheri Sr.: 1942. Kate Ellis: Overseas in the service from 1942 to 1945. Okay. Now, your education, the first school you went to? Emmett E. Cheri Sr.: Craig. Joseph A. Craig. Kate Ellis: Craig Elementary? Emmett E. Cheri Sr.: Mm-hmm. Kate Ellis: In New Orleans. From, do you remember what years you were there? Emmett E. Cheri Sr.: Oh, God. Kate Ellis: I know. Maybe we can work our way back there. Emmett E. Cheri Sr.: Well, it would be for, I know, up until the seventh grade. I don't remember when that would be. Kate Ellis: I'm just trying to think. Did you join the service right when you got out of high school? Emmett E. Cheri Sr.: Yeah. I was 18 years old. Kate Ellis: Okay, and then your— Emmett E. Cheri Sr.: 17, no. No, I got out of high school the same year. Kate Ellis: Okay. If you got out of high school in 1942— Emmett E. Cheri Sr.: That was 11—I'm trying to figure that out. I started at five. If I was five, I was four or five years old in—No, that ain't right. And see, my father died in 1936. I went into high school in 1937, '38. I'm trying figure that one out. Kate Ellis: No, when you say- Emmett E. Cheri Sr.: Okay, my father died in '36. I was in seventh grade. I was 11 years old. I was going to be 12 that same year. Kate Ellis: And that was the junior high school? Emmett E. Cheri Sr.: That was going into junior high. Kate Ellis: What was the name of that high school? Emmett E. Cheri Sr.: Wicker. Albert Wicker High. Kate Ellis: Junior high? Emmett E. Cheri Sr.: I went there in 19—What'd I say? I was 12— Kate Ellis: You said 1937 was when you entered Wicker? Emmett E. Cheri Sr.: Yeah. And this started with two years there and then two years over in '35, so that's the four years. Kate Ellis: Okay. That makes sense, pretty much. Emmett E. Cheri Sr.: Yeah. It's about 17. It was the right age. Kate Ellis: [indistinct 00:38:38] '35. Emmett E. Cheri Sr.: That was the right age. I can't remember all of that. Kate Ellis: I'm just thinking. About 1939 to 1942. And so you would've been—And you went to Albert Wicker in seventh grade? Emmett E. Cheri Sr.: Eighth grade. Kate Ellis: Eighth grade? Okay. Eighth grade. Emmett E. Cheri Sr.: That'd be— Kate Ellis: It's different now. They didn't have—See— Emmett E. Cheri Sr.: From about 1929 to 1937, yeah, something like that era. '29, yeah, something like that. 1929 or something like that, yeah. Kate Ellis: You got your high school diploma? Emmett E. Cheri Sr.: Yeah. Kate Ellis: Okay. Now this- Emmett E. Cheri Sr.: Don't ask me where. Don't ask me where it's at. I've been trying to find all of these papers. I got one of my daughter's graduation. Kate Ellis: Oh, yeah. Emmett E. Cheri Sr.: And I can't find the rest of them. Kate Ellis: Oh, really? Yeah. Emmett E. Cheri Sr.: I don't know what happened to them. God knows. And my son, I don't know if he's got it, but he's asked me for it several times now. Kate Ellis: Really? Emmett E. Cheri Sr.: I've checked all over. I don't know. I tell him to ask his mother if she got it. None of them, I don't even have none of their diplomas. Kate Ellis: Really? Yeah. Emmett E. Cheri Sr.: My son, my daughter, none of them. I don't know what the heck happened. Kate Ellis: Well— Emmett E. Cheri Sr.: Well, they broke in this house twice. Kate Ellis: Oh, really? Wow. Emmett E. Cheri Sr.: And there's a lot of things that's missing and I— Kate Ellis: Yeah, okay. Now list your current and most previous job. Your last job was with— Emmett E. Cheri Sr.: McLean. Kate Ellis: McLean Trucking. Emmett E. Cheri Sr.: McLean Trucking Company. That would be it. Kate Ellis: And that was in New Orleans? Emmett E. Cheri Sr.: Yep. Kate Ellis: And the dates—You retired in 1986? Emmett E. Cheri Sr.: '86. Kate Ellis: When did you start with them? Emmett E. Cheri Sr.: I started in 1956 with the Herron Transportation Company, included, but that was 1956. Kate Ellis: And before McLean— Emmett E. Cheri Sr.: I worked for Haps. Haps, H-A-P-S, HAPS Parcel Service. Kate Ellis: Haps, H-A-P-S, parcel. Emmett E. Cheri Sr.: Yeah. H-A-P-S Parcel. Kate Ellis: What was your job? Emmett E. Cheri Sr.: Driver. Everything was driving. Kate Ellis: Okay. And that was in New Orleans. Emmett E. Cheri Sr.: All of that's New Orleans. Everything— Kate Ellis: And how long were you— Emmett E. Cheri Sr.: I worked for them in in 1947 to 1956. Kate Ellis: Okay. And then before that? Emmett E. Cheri Sr.: I worked for Lietz Eagan Funeral Home. Kate Ellis: Can you spell it? Emmett E. Cheri Sr.: L-I-E-T-Z, that's the way, E-A-G-A-N. Kate Ellis: Is that a separate word? Emmett E. Cheri Sr.: Yeah. Lietz Eagan. That's two names. Kate Ellis: Tell me—Lietz, okay, L-I-E— Emmett E. Cheri Sr.: Lietz is one and Eagan is the other one. Kate Ellis: Okay, okay. And Eagan is spelled? Emmett E. Cheri Sr.: E-A-G-A-N. Funeral Home. Kate Ellis: And your job for them was— Emmett E. Cheri Sr.: Well, more or less just porter. That's just all I got. That's primarily what that is. Maintenance. I don't know what they would call it. Kate Ellis: And then you—And that was from '45 to '47? Emmett E. Cheri Sr.: Right. Kate Ellis: And then before that, you were a soldier. What's the type? You were an Army soldier? Emmett E. Cheri Sr.: Yes, in the Army, yes. Kate Ellis: What's that? Do you call yourself a soldier? What were you called? Emmett E. Cheri Sr.: Yeah, you're called a soldier. A soldier. Just a soldier in the Army. Kate Ellis: Okay. Emmett E. Cheri Sr.: You go in there as a private in the Army. Pvt, all of them. Kate Ellis: Okay. Have you ever received any awards or honors or held any offices? Emmett E. Cheri Sr.: From what? Kate Ellis: Just any awards or honors from anywhere, or been in—Okay. That's fine. Emmett E. Cheri Sr.: No awards. Kate Ellis: And your current religious denomination is Catholic? Emmett E. Cheri Sr.: Right. Kate Ellis: And it's St. Francis de Sales is your church? Emmett E. Cheri Sr.: Right. Kate Ellis: And then before joining St. Francis de Sales, what other churches did you belong to? Emmett E. Cheri Sr.: St. Peter Claver. Kate Ellis: Will you spell Claver? Emmett E. Cheri Sr.: C-L-A-V-E-R. Kate Ellis: Anyone before that? Emmett E. Cheri Sr.: Corpus Christi was next. I went to St. Peter Claver, then Corpus Christ. Kate Ellis: And those are both in New Orleans? Emmett E. Cheri Sr.: New Orleans. Yeah, I was married at Corpus Christi. I was Christened at Corpus Christi. I did everything at Corpus Christi. Kate Ellis: Do you belong to any organizations? Any civic, community, or education— Emmett E. Cheri Sr.: Not anymore. Kate Ellis: What did you belong to? Emmett E. Cheri Sr.: Autocrats Social. Kate Ellis: What was it? Emmett E. Cheri Sr.: The Autocrats Social and Pleasure. Excuse me. Kate Ellis: The Autocrats Social? The Autocrats Social? Emmett E. Cheri Sr.: And Pleasure Club, yes. Kate Ellis: Social and Pleasure Club? Emmett E. Cheri Sr.: Well, it's a club. It's what the club is. Kate Ellis: Social club? Emmett E. Cheri Sr.: Yeah. Kate Ellis: Anything else? Emmett E. Cheri Sr.: No, that's it. Kate Ellis: Okay. Any other activities or affiliations, hobbies, interests, anything? Emmett E. Cheri Sr.: No, not really. No. Kate Ellis: No? Okay. Any favorite saying or phrase or quote? Okay. That's pretty much it. The one thing now is to—I'm going to turn this off.