Speaker 1: Found out the day to off, he went in the window and got his shotgun, and pistols, and I don't know what all. Some jewelry you know, in the box, but they got him, though. They got him. The way they got him, he sold a ring to another lady, and the lady was working for this White lady. She said, "Let me see that ring.", and she put it up in there, and she said, "That's my ring." She said, "No, it ain't." "Yes, it is." And she told the lady who she bought it from, and they got him, skinned him. Yeah. He was scared and he think [indistinct 00:00:52]. His name was, we called him "Stalks". He wouldn't work. Karen Ferguson: Do you ever remember people getting into trouble with the police or being sent to prison for things they had not done? Lester Bullock: Yes, ma'am, Yes, ma'am. I've known that too. Karen Ferguson: And can you talk a little bit about that? Lester Bullock: I've been in prison myself. Karen Ferguson: Oh, you have? And why was that? You don't have to answer that if you don't want to. Speaker 1: Yeah. Lester Bullock: I got threatened with the law, I've been in the law, call them on him. They called him "Old Muller", [indistinct 00:01:37]. Karen Ferguson: A Muller? Lester Bullock: That's what the man was named, old law, they named him "The Muller". Speaker 1: Right. Lester Bullock: Well, I was just [indistinct 00:01:43], my daddy had been dead. So what's that's sad was boss me kept me [indistinct 00:01:48] because I was down there, and he's gone and go one back home. And I was sitting on the banks, that old Muller come up there, told me to come on and go with him. I was like, "I just got off from work, I'm tired", I just got me a bowl of soup and [indistinct 00:02:06] and eat there [indistinct 00:02:08]. Lester Bullock: And he just got up and and said, "Oh hell, you're drunk!" Carried me over to the car, like that car right there. Well, he told me to get in, but he wouldn't open his car door. Rolled the glass down, "Oh, get in." I said, "Open the door, I'll get in." Every time I saw him, I would get this black [indistinct 00:02:31], he'd have a black neck tie, I'd grab that neck tie around there and [indistinct 00:02:35], and he hit the ground. I got right on the top of him, then the boss man got around there, I didn't do no time for it and them White men was there and said he'd done me wrong. Speaker 1: Right. Lester Bullock: Yeah. And I took it good and from him, and I had that fork and he was a little calmer then, but he carried it on to Tarboro. I didn't get to go nowhere. I told them if they wanted me to, I'd go with him, and I didn't go. That old man walked and he carried me on down to jail and I stayed in jail until that Saturday night into that Sunday. My boss man come down that Monday morning and got me out. Karen Ferguson: Did you know other people that got into similar situations? Lester Bullock: No, that old kicking mule would come out. Old stuff that you drink called "Kicking Mule [indistinct 00:03:39]", some of them would get locked up every Saturday night from being drunk. Karen Ferguson: For being drunk? Lester Bullock: Yeah. Karen Ferguson: Where people sent to prison for longer periods than that? Lester Bullock: Sometimes they'd get six months, five and six months. Karen Ferguson: What kinds of things would they do for that? Or what would they be accused of? Lester Bullock: Be fighting and cutting up one another, yeah. Some of them you would get cut by [indistinct 00:04:13] every Saturday night Karen Ferguson: When they went to prison, what did they do there? Did they have to work at the prison? Lester Bullock: Yeah, when the judge sentences you for you to go to Raleigh, to the penitentiary, you stay in the penitentiary just like they closed [indistinct 00:04:33] to give them some more clean clothes, they be having that laundry come with it. Them were the prisoners would fold them up and put them in this white bag like that. Laundry, the county laundry. Then when you get ready to leave Raleigh, they bring you back to a prison camp somewhere and let you stay at that prison camp and work on the road shrubbing [indistinct 00:04:55]. Karen Ferguson: Right. Lester Bullock: Ditches where the [indistinct 00:04:59]. Karen Ferguson: Did you know anyone who had to do that? Who had to work, went to the work camp? The prison camp? Lester Bullock: It's been a long time. I'm about to say I'm going to go a long time, but a long time ago, people were working them old mules, folks just stay in prison. A long time. The last time where the mule we sent back on Friday, I think by that Saturday morning, the man with hauling the water sit that [indistinct 00:05:36] wanting to play that old record there. He told that man, "Don't cut that record on." That man told him his boy is playing that record. He went around and cut it off and told this man stay there and he'd come back around the corner where he stayed at [indistinct 00:05:57], over in that building, came back with a shotgun and shot him right in his throat. Laid there and the doctor, Raven, he was a doctor, told me if he had got him to him that Saturday night, he said the man wouldn't have died. Laid there all night and died. Lester Bullock: This man would run away, but his boss man fixed up some papers, you know like a local boy would come [indistinct 00:06:30]. Picked up them papers so he could make the local boy would be [indistinct 00:06:38] and he sent them papers out trying to [indistinct 00:06:41] and he told him, "Hey, come back here." And he was scared, and the White folks was scared of him, come back here and he stayed around Leggett. Let him walk around so they didn't bother him and he got three or four sacks, caught him down the street was running up on him and got him before he knowed it. Came down and put him jail and they carried him down to Raleigh. They carried him down to one of those prison camps, one Sunday evening his mama went down and carried him something to eat, and then his mama said she'll see him that next week. He said, "No, you won't ma. You'll see me tonight, I'll be home tonight." Lester Bullock: She told him, "Son, don't you run." "I'm going to see you tonight." And that Monday morning, they carried him off to go to work, and he jumped and run, and the man that rode the old motor grader told him "Halt", he didn't halt, so they shot him in the belly. He was running, too. Karen Ferguson: This was your brother? Lester Bullock: No ma'am, one of kin to them. That was a mean man, he stayed around Leggetts. Yeah, he shot him with a double barrel gun and told him to "Halt", and he didn't stop, he kept on running. The guards and law and all was scared of him. Karen Ferguson: Do you ever remember Black people being killed by Whites and nothing happening to the White person? Lester Bullock: It's been a long time, I was small. Karen Ferguson: But there was something like that that happened? Lester Bullock: I'd hear my mama and daddy talk about it. Karen Ferguson: Right. Lester Bullock: Yeah, Ma and Daddy would talk about it. Karen Ferguson: Did you parents ever tell you things that you had to do to stay out of trouble with White people? Lester Bullock: Yes, ma'am. Karen Ferguson: What did they tell you? Lester Bullock: Treat them right. Always treat White folks right. Don't be dogging and don't be fussing with them. Karen Ferguson: Right. Lester Bullock: Yeah. Whatever you got to do, treat them right, and stay out of trouble. Karen Ferguson: Were there ever times when you felt like fighting back and not— Lester Bullock: Um-um, no. But if you fight back, you might get the worser end of it. No, I didn't never fight back. Karen Ferguson: Did you know anybody who fought back and got in trouble? Lester Bullock: Sometimes they would fight back and get in trouble. Get between three months and a year. Two years like that in prison. I always tried to stay out of trouble. Karen Ferguson: Did you ever get married? Lester Bullock: A shacked a little bit. I've got three children. Karen Ferguson: Did they live with you? Lester Bullock: No, they're in New York somewhere. I saw one about two or three weeks ago. She was in the hospital, they bring me to the hospital. Karen Ferguson: It seems like most of the people that farmed had large families. How did you farm? Were you just by yourself when you were a man? When you were a grown up man? Lester Bullock: My mother and my sisters and things, they would always help me when my daddy and ma passed away. Karen Ferguson: What happened after they died? What did you do then? Lester Bullock: Well, my sister is living now. My sister and her children are living now. Karen Ferguson: Okay. Lester Bullock: We don't do no work now. I ain't done nothing in about 15 years. I been had two heart attacks, and all of them works Public Works. I stay with my niece, I stay in a house with my niece. Karen Ferguson: So after your mother died, you stayed on with your sister's family? Lester Bullock: Yes, ma'am, I grown up with them. Karen Ferguson: Was she married? Was her husband there? Lester Bullock: No ma'am, no she didn't ever get married. Karen Ferguson: So you were the man of the house? Lester Bullock: And the oldest brother, he was with us too. Karen Ferguson: Okay. Lester Bullock: His name is Richard Boiler, he was the man of the house before he got married. Karen Ferguson: And did you stay on the same farm that you had grown up on? Or was this a different place? Lester Bullock: Where I growed up on? I'm with the same man, we were with the same man where I first knowed, on the same farm where my daddy used to farm on. Been there all my life. Karen Ferguson: You were talking before about the overseer. Who was he? Lester Bullock: That's Mr. Luke Alston, his daddy was named Cage Alston, when they had his son, the overseer. Ms. Cage, he was land launder him and Ms. Luke, the overseer's boy, he was a good man too, Mr. Luke, he passed about three years ago. Mr. Luke, that was a good man, you can get anything you want from that man. He was good. Karen Ferguson: Did other people move around more than your family? Did most people stay on the same farm for a long time? Lester Bullock: Nowadays, hardly any of them boys farm nowadays. All them go to go to town and places. But all my sister's own a farm but we don't farm it, rent who is there. Rent the house now. Karen Ferguson: But back then, did people move around from place to place much? From farm to farm? Lester Bullock: Yeah, if this man didn't treat them right, that man over there would say "Go to that best man over here. That's where they treat them the best." Karen Ferguson: What happened when somebody moved after the landlord didn't treat them right? Was it easy to go to another place? Lester Bullock: Yes, ma'am, that man didn't like that boy, that man over there, he's got a farm better, you can move over there. Karen Ferguson: What did the unfair landlord say to that? Could he stop you from moving? Lester Bullock: No ma'am, he couldn't stop you. If you didn't owe them no money, he couldn't stop you. Karen Ferguson: But if you did owe him money and you did try to leave, what would happen? Lester Bullock: Then that man over there where he got moved with and you would owe him two or three hundred dollars, that man would pay the money [indistinct 00:13:47] and move you on in the house. Karen Ferguson: Okay, I see. Where there times when that was easier for people than others, to move from place to place? Where there always places to move to? Lester Bullock: Mm-hmm, because all of them was like that. Karen Ferguson: Were land owners always looking for tenants? Lester Bullock: Yes, ma'am, when you tend them big farms, they like you stay here with this man, and this man you can't make no money with this man. That man over here, he'll tell you "Come move over here. I guarantee you'll make some money next year. Don't let that man over there know it." "If you move with that man over there, you'll make money." Karen Ferguson: What did you do when you were growing up for a doctor? When you got sick, what did you do when you were sick? Lester Bullock: What, when I was little bitty or something like that? Karen Ferguson: Or even when you were older or later on, but early on, when you were— Lester Bullock: When I first knowed nothing about a doctor, I was about 14 or 15 years old. My daddy always would get some kind of remedy or something they would give you for the stomach ache. Some liniment and water and sugar. That stuff would be hot! Karen Ferguson: Oh, I can imagine! Lester Bullock: Yeah, make you have a belly ache, a stomach ache. Yeah, that'd do you all the good, then and I was grown, my daddy dead, I was on the job and for the doctor I went to, I had broke my leg. Fell out there and broke my leg, then the next time the boy cranked the car and broke my arm in two places right here, I went to the doctor and he put me in the hospital to heal up. But for long, I was grown when I knew anything about a doctor. Karen Ferguson: You talked about your father's belly ache remedy. Where there other things that you did when you were sick instead of going to a doctor? Lester Bullock: Yeah. Karen Ferguson: Like what? Lester Bullock: In the morning I used to dig up some kind of weed that had a root to it, dig it up and wash that root off and you tote that in your pocket and chew it. They called it some kind of peppermint [indistinct 00:16:26] for the stomach ache. Rub it, get some grease or something and rub your stomach all like that. Get some kind of old remedy to rub in to keep from going to the doctor. They knew all that old stuff that he did. Lester Bullock: Then sometimes they'll give you a raw egg to stop the hurting, beat up a raw egg just like you've got to make a cake out of it. Then you put some flavor or something in there and drink that stuff down. Make it feel better. Karen Ferguson: Where there people who weren't doctors, but other people who knew a lot about these weeds and things? Lester Bullock: Yes, ma'am, like some old people that would go around the woods and dig and find something for you to take. We call them old "Root Workers". Them old root workers. Karen Ferguson: Who was the root worker when you were growing up? Lester Bullock: All I know is the man Kelly Jones, he would have a [indistinct 00:17:35] that would fill at the school. He would go in there just like this. We used to call him old "Broom [indistinct 00:17:40]". Go over there in that [indistinct 00:17:44] corn field and find some kind of root out there. It's some old root we called it "Crows Foot". Get some tea and we'd drink that tea of it, get it as hot as it can get and put a little sugar in that tea, and drink that tea. You ever seen strawberry vine? Karen Ferguson: Yeah. Lester Bullock: That crows foot looks like a strawberry vine, but it's got a different root. Karen Ferguson: Right. Lester Bullock: You get that root and make tea of it. Wash them off and that'll do you all the good. But I can't find them now, that old crow's foot. A lot of folks need to use it. Karen Ferguson: When you had to go to the doctor, was it a Black doctor that you saw? Lester Bullock: No ma'am. Dr. House, he got killed in an airplane, up there besides Rocky Mount. He was a good old doctor, he stayed right there in Leggets. Yeah, Dr. House. That was the first doctor I ever went to, Dr. House. My daddy, he done died, Dr. House died, I went to Dr. Raven, a man called Dr. Raven. I stayed with him when my arm was broke in the hospital. Lester Bullock: Then the next doctor I know, I've been with Dr. Hughes [indistinct 00:19:13] when I had this heart attack. I go to him now twice a month. Karen Ferguson: Where there other ways in which Black people helped each other out? Did you ever belong to a burial society? Lester Bullock: You mean a [indistinct 00:19:32]? Karen Ferguson: I don't know, what's that? Lester Bullock: That's the insurance that puts you away when you die. Karen Ferguson: Right. Lester Bullock: Yes, ma'am. Karen Ferguson: Was that run by Black people? The one that you belong to? Lester Bullock: That's like a undertakers' shop? Karen Ferguson: Right. Lester Bullock: Do you have [indistinct 00:19:49] you can go to the undertaker's shop and take a [indistinct 00:19:49] out on you. Karen Ferguson: Was there anything else? Any other kinds of things like a mutual aid society or anything that you belonged to where you pay a little bit of money each month and then they'll help you when you get sick? Lester Bullock: Yes, ma'am. Karen Ferguson: What was that? Lester Bullock: I did. Just like, uh, we pay here, but I don't know what [indistinct 00:20:20]. Karen Ferguson: But when you were younger, when you were growing up, was there anything like that? Lester Bullock: No ma'am, when I was growing up, no. When I first started going to the doctor and paying my own insurance policy when I take on the bad leg after my ma and daddy died. Karen Ferguson: Do you remember the Bricks School at all from when you were growing up? Lester Bullock: What's that school here? Karen Ferguson: Yeah. Lester Bullock: No ma'am. I didn't. I've got two sisters that went up here, but that lady drives that car, you said, "Good Lord" [indistinct 00:21:01]. She teached my sister. Karen Ferguson: Or really? Lester Bullock: My two youngest sisters. And that little lady in there they called her "Railroad", she used to teach here. Karen Ferguson: Right, Ms. Morning. Lester Bullock: Yeah, I know Ms. Barter, I've been knowing her a long time. Karen Ferguson: Did you know that the school was here when you were growing up? Lester Bullock: No, ma'am. I didn't know it was there. The first time I know this school was there, the old T-Model car came out, my daddy had one and we carried up [indistinct 00:21:37] all the little small [indistinct 00:21:39] went along this road going to [indistinct 00:21:42] and he told us that was Bricks School. I was small then. That's the only time I knowed it. Lester Bullock: Then after I growed up, my [indistinct 00:21:53] I seen the boy play ball over there. I didn't play them boys, just sit up there in the shade and look at them. [indistinct 00:22:00] uphill. Karen Ferguson: You said your daddy got a Model-T car. Lester Bullock: He had one before he died, an old T-Model. You stand in front of it and crank it up. Karen Ferguson: Right. Lester Bullock: You know anything about them old cars? Karen Ferguson: I know a little bit about that. But just from books, I've never seen one. Lester Bullock: You take them and crank them up in the front. Karen Ferguson: How did that change your life when you got a car? How were things different after you got a car from before? Lester Bullock: Got you a car [indistinct 00:22:33]. I don't know, them old T-Models, they were pretty if you seen one on the road. They went from there to an A-Model Ford. Karen Ferguson: But when your family got a car, how were things different for you after that? Did anything change? Lester Bullock: It didn't change much. Karen Ferguson: Did you go different places to buy things then? Lester Bullock: Yes, you go to Tarboro sometimes to get groceries, and sometimes you come to [indistinct 00:23:01] to get groceries from cheap stores, the cheapest place. Karen Ferguson: Was it cheaper than where you were going before? Lester Bullock: Yes, ma'am. Yes, they were cheaper. Karen Ferguson: Would you get credit at those stores as well? Lester Bullock: Yeah, one man who owned a S&M, he was a creditor, he's dead and gone now. Whitaker. About all the good White folks' gone. With credit, [indistinct 00:23:35] farming. Karen Ferguson: When you were a grown man, did you continue going to church? Lester Bullock: Yes, ma'am. Karen Ferguson: Same church that you went to earlier? Lester Bullock: Same one. I love preaching there, and this old prayer meeting, folks used to have that a long time ago, the old folks. Used to talk about an old Baptist church, them folks could do some singing at nights. I used to love to hear them preach. Then sometimes we'd eat three or four times a night. Karen Ferguson: Do you belong to anything at church? To the choir? Lester Bullock: No, my old lungs can't do choir because I can't stand so much loud fuss, or my chest go to bothering me, my heart gets to bothering me. Karen Ferguson: When you were younger though, did you belong to anything at church? Lester Bullock: Yes, but I used to be a trustee there one time. Then the doctor told me I better let it alone, I couldn't stand too much fuss. Karen Ferguson: Did you belong to any other organizations when you were young? Lester Bullock: No ma'am, no. Karen Ferguson: Oh, okay. Do you want to finish off? Should we finish off? Is it time for you to go to lunch? Lester Bullock: The truck done been here? Karen Ferguson: I don't know, someone was just calling to see if you were coming in. Lester Bullock: Yeah, they done been here. Karen Ferguson: Okay.