WEBVTT 1 00:02.000 --> 00:18.000 Booker T. Washington was also going to turn me into the type of Frederick Douglas, [indistinct 00:00:09] legacy. And I got curious about why he was such a hero, Booker T. Washington, and I started reading about him. 2 00:18.000 --> 00:21.000 And you were doing this in high school? 3 00:21.000 --> 01:00.000 I was, yeah. I read about him in high school. And he sort of inspired me. You see, if a person is poor, economically, if he has a very limited choice of the schools he can go to, and if there is segregation, discrimination, and problems like that— And I lived as a little boy to encounter some race riots in West Virginia. 4 01:00.000 --> 01:02.000 What were those like? 5 01:02.000 --> 01:18.000 Oh, my gosh. This one was horrible experience in the world. People would come and try and knock the door of your house down. They stopped you in the street and fight you, and different things like that. 6 01:18.000 --> 01:20.000 And this happen as a child? 7 01:20.000 --> 01:45.000 I witnessed it as a child, race riots. I was quite young, I know that. Yeah, but I think when I was a child, the old people— parents would take the children and put them in a quiet room somewhere, so they wouldn't be part of that, because it was frightening, you see. You're in a minority population, you see. But I witnessed race riots in West Virginia, my hometown Fairmont, when I was a young lad, pretty young. And— 8 01:45.000 --> 01:47.000 How old were you? 9 01:47.000 --> 02:03.000 Pretty hard to say now. I guess I was about 12 years old when I first saw. 10 02:03.000 --> 02:06.000 Do you know what started the riot or—? 11 02:06.000 --> 02:44.000 I don't know. You'd hear rumors about some— The number one thing I think in race riots in the South and in America was racial contacts and infringements, including alleged rape of girls. Including that, you see? Whether it's true or not, you don't know. Because if a White person had something against a Black person, if he went out and accused that person of rape, he'd get a lot of support. I mean, it's seen as [indistinct 00:02:44], you see? 12 02:44.000 --> 03:22.000 But I never knew anybody, personally I didn't, that ever even talked about raping anybody or that did it either. It's just something we wouldn't do. It's just no reason for it, as far as we were concerned. And we had some White friends. I can't remember just who they were now. We definitely had some White— There's some neighborhoods, even in the South, where there were White people living there and Blacks. I know in Sumner there were, and we got along with them all right. 13 03:22.000 --> 03:36.000 Can you describe perhaps, one of the race riots that you witnessed as a child? 14 03:36.000 --> 04:34.000 I can think of it, but I was just a child. It seemed a lot in Sumner, West Virginia. It became an unfailable factor that on Halloween night, the celebration of Halloween, and people would wear masks and things, that there'd be some fighting among White and Black people downtown, in the city. They'd meet and fight. That was one of the things there. There was a lot of bad, corrupt, of course, I don't know, but they got so you had to kind of be careful about going out on Halloween because you don't know when somebody's going to start a fight with you or what. 15 04:34.000 --> 05:13.000 Because on Halloween night most everybody would have on some kind of mask. I know I lived through some of those riots. Nobody seemed to bother me, but I lived through it. But then I was kind of young and I tried to stay away from it. But I've seen it and then it happened on the street too. Sometimes you'd be in the house and they'd be going down the street looking for somebody they wanted, and you'd just stay in and get quiet. 16 05:13.000 --> 05:16.000 Would they have masks on? 17 05:16.000 --> 06:22.000 Sometimes. But most of the time they didn't have it on. When you look at it, racism is silly. When you look at it. And then according to some reports and things you see, on Sumner street, you have many Black people or White ancestors. You see? In other words, there were many Black families who had some White person who had been in there and helped to get some children by one of the— Just like it's a known fact that back in the days of slavery, sometimes the master would get in contact with one of the slave girls, and then she'd be pregnant then as a result of it. And that wasn't true of all of them, and [indistinct 00:06:15]. But there was some of them who did do these things. You see? We can't control it. 18 06:22.000 --> 06:25.000 Where did you go after high school? 19 06:25.000 --> 06:26.000 Where did I go? 20 06:26.000 --> 06:28.000 Yeah. What year did you graduate in? 21 06:28.000 --> 07:14.000 Let's see, in high school— I finished high school in 1937 at Dunbar High School in 1937, in West Virginia, Fairmont. And then in 19— Well, that's September, and I finished in May. That September, I enrolled at Tuskegee, in Alabama. And they had a program called the five-year plan, where you could work your way through the school. I came there on that plan, and they put me on it. In other words, you work four years and you finish in five years because you don't have the money to go to school, so you earn it as you go on. You see? 22 07:14.000 --> 08:04.000 And then after a period of time, you'd have enough savings to switch over and go to school full-time and work part-time, when you make it. I never had any problem making it financially at Tuskegee, once they got me on the five year plan. In fact, I've told many times the story that after I got registered in school, I had $60 left. That's all I had. And on occasion, my mother would send me a few dollars, just like [indistinct 00:07:44]. 23 08:04.000 --> 08:05.000 And so you started at Tuskegee in 1937? 24 08:05.000 --> 08:10.000 Uh-huh. (Affirmative) January 6th. 25 08:10.000 --> 08:11.000 January 6, 1937. 26 08:11.000 --> 08:11.000 Uh-huh. (Affirmative) 27 08:11.000 --> 08:19.000 And then you went there up until 1942? 28 08:19.000 --> 08:20.000 1941. 29 08:20.000 --> 08:30.000 1941. What was the school like? And how did you make contact with Tuskegee? You were in West Virginia. 30 08:30.000 --> 09:41.000 That's a miracle story, and I don't know if people believe me now but it's true. In Sumner West Virginia, it was not unusual for someone to come up into the town and a new person to get a job in a coal mine. There was this young man who'd come up about a year before I graduated my high school. His name, I believe it was Gene Barnes. And he started out trying to make him some money. We'd heard rumors that he'd been in college and he had just left college, he didn't graduate. A lot of people thought he got in trouble, but he didn't. And he started to live at his sister's house. She was married to a coal miner. So he started out, not having no job at the coal mining company. He started out cutting people's hair. Because he'd cut your hair then for a quarter. I think maybe about a dollar at the barbershop. 31 09:41.000 --> 10:14.000 Anyway, he proved to be a good barber. And I went to him this once and talking to him. He came here my junior year, about a year before I graduated. He'd tell me I got to cut my hair for a quarter, so whenever I need a haircut I go to him. And he was good. You see? Well, he had learned how to cut hair at school in Tuskegee. He's in town somewhere. But anyway, I ended up getting Gene to cut my hair. He wasn't too far, I could walk up there. 32 10:14.000 --> 10:50.000 When I got to his house— He lived with his sister and her husband. You see? I rang the doorbell outside and she came to the door and she said, "Yea". I said, "Is Gene home?" She said, "Yeah." I said, "Tell him I want to get a haircut." "Just a minute." Turned her back and he came out. She told him. And he said, "Come on." And he took me on the porch somewhere outside the ground he set up to hair. And he'd put you in a chair and he started cutting your hair. 33 10:50.000 --> 11:27.000 What he would do is cut your hair and then you gave him a quarter and you leave. And I heard about why he came and so on, and as he started my hair— Well, then I was long toward the end of the school year that year. I had gone to get my hair cut, he started cutting my hair and he said, "Are you going to be in pass graduating or finishing next— about two weeks later." I said, "Well, I'm scheduled, I hope I do." 34 11:27.000 --> 11:27.000 To graduate high school? 35 11:27.000 --> 12:04.000 Yeah, high school. Said, "I hope you do too." [indistinct 00:11:28] as I get my hair cut, [indistinct 00:11:37] graduated. He cut my hair and he said, "[indistinct 00:11:40]," he took me on the back porch to cut my hair. And he said, "Did you finish college Friday night? "Yes, I did, Gene." [indistinct 00:11:58], "Are you going to college?" I said, "Yeah, I want to go." I said, "But the school I write to tell me I need so much money to come that way." 36 12:04.000 --> 12:38.000 To cut it long and short, he said, "You don't have that money to college?" I said, "What did you say?" [indistinct 00:12:15] go to college, it can happened. Tuskegee has a five-year plan. So we had to work so you go and he spend the first two years working full-time on a job and saving him money. And then you switch over and you have the money [indistinct 00:12:32] and then you can get a part-time job, you go to school the next two years and you finish in five years four-year college degree. 37 12:38.000 --> 13:16.000 I said, "Is that so? Is that so?" He calmed me down and said, "I'll tell you what you do. The next time you go out of town, stop by the post office and get your postcards. Get the card and write to the registrar Tuskegee Institute, Tuskegee Alabama, and ask him to please [indistinct 00:13:00] back to the five-year plan." I didn't say anything. When he finished with my hair, I went home, and the very next morning my mother told, she said, "[indistinct 00:13:17]. It's not your [indistinct 00:13:17]." 38 13:16.000 --> 13:59.000 Said, "Why don't you go to Jackson Avenue by the post office and say it's [indistinct 00:13:26] low that's [indistinct 00:13:27] and get some [indistinct 00:13:29]. I got the mail and I [indistinct 00:13:31]. [indistinct 00:13:32], she wouldn't get a lot of chains a quarter. I got a [indistinct 00:13:37] and I walked the post office. The post office is [indistinct 00:13:42] from me. I looked up there, post office [indistinct 00:13:49] try that. I went to the post office and went looking and got inside a [indistinct 00:13:55] five or six count [indistinct 00:13:57], didn't buy any of them. 39 13:59.000 --> 14:33.000 I went one of them, I said, "Give me a postcard." They gave me postcard, I went to the writing desk, I wrote Registrar, Registrar, Accounting Institute, Accounting Institute, Tuskegee, Alabama, [indistinct 00:14:13] Virginia, two cards. Wrote it and drop [indistinct 00:14:18] and put them, and I laughed to myself, "Well, this isn't the end of that. Too better be true. You see?" I was [indistinct 00:14:25], I never heard from Hampton, but I learned later that Hampton dropped the program that year. 40 14:33.000 --> 15:14.000 Tuskegee had a large farm, and they made some money. One of the reasons. So anyway, I walked to the post office to get my letter. I asked some money to give me two [indistinct 00:14:53] and I went to put it in a dropper. "I guess this is the end of that," is what I said. "Sounds too good to be choosy." And in about five days, I was home by myself, I wasn't really going to work. [indistinct 00:15:11] if I'm at work or not. 41 15:14.000 --> 15:59.000 Postman [indistinct 00:15:15] and I heard him and my mon said, "Look, [indistinct 00:15:20]." So [indistinct 00:15:20] I got mail [indistinct 00:15:20]. That my mother. [indistinct 00:15:24] from school. Mother started to read, and said, "It's from Tuskegee." I had [indistinct 00:15:41]. The letter said, "Dear Mr. Woodson, we are pleased to acknowledged we have received your application for admission, and also to inform you that the admissions committee had granted you acceptance as a freshman. You report [indistinct 00:15:56]." 42 15:59.000 --> 16:26.000 However, we must inform you that your acceptance is based on the condition [indistinct 00:16:03] see your your high school transcript. Please have your [indistinct 00:16:08] your transcript right away." I said, "I didn't understand how it worked then, I was fairly young. So I took the thing up. I had a chance go to college. So the next morning I got [indistinct 00:16:23] school about miles and a half away. 43 16:26.000 --> 17:30.000 And the principal sitting in his office at his desk and I hot on the door. He said, "Come in." He said, "Woodson you've been accepted?" I said, "Yes sir." "Woodson, you've been accepted?" "Yes sir." "Woodson, you've been accepted." "Yes sir." Now he didn't tell me he was so excited. I hadn't even replied. I said, "The postcard, that's all." So he told me, "You need to [indistinct 00:16:55]. I am going to help you to find [indistinct 00:16:56]." I said, "Thank you sir." And he did. I got a [indistinct 00:17:00]. You see? I didn't realize I hadn't fully been accepted. Didn't know how to do it. So I went home and got the material out and I sat [indistinct 00:17:14]. And then he told me some [indistinct 00:17:16] for the second time. That's how I got into Tuskegee. You see? I had nothing to do with this, God did a miracle [indistinct 00:17:27]. 44 17:30.000 --> 18:27.000 And when you were at Tuskegee, what kind of work were you going to earn money to—? What kind of work were you doing to work your way through school? Mr. Woodson, you mentioned that you worked your way through Tuskegee basically. 45 18:27.000 --> 18:29.000 Basically, yeah. 46 18:29.000 --> 18:31.000 What kind of work were you doing? 47 18:31.000 --> 19:11.000 That's interesting too. The first year on the five-year plan, I started out working on the landscape out here. I was cutting the grass, cutting the hedges and shrubbery, as I was. A lot of us did — we were. We were about six of us, same time working together. And all over the camp, we had to do. You see? We would haul fertilizer, and placed it on campus, where we would pack grass, grass were growing. 48 19:11.000 --> 19:53.000 And we we dig up the ground and put that in it to improve the grass. We did landscape work. You see? And then we also went on to the ice house, they call it. The laundry and ice house down the backside of campus, and get the ice and haul around the different building and put it in a [indistinct 00:19:39] for cool water, warm [indistinct 00:19:41]. No, one time. And we also go out there and bring back tools, whatever they needed. They [indistinct 00:19:50] back to work. 49 19:53.000 --> 20:45.000 There's be a gang [indistinct 00:19:54] time, come fight together and fix the other [indistinct 00:20:02]. We [indistinct 00:20:02] to the cafeteria or one of our jobs also. And then I think it was a second semester I got a job as a night guard. No, no, second year, I got a job as a night guard. We got six hours at night [indistinct 00:20:27]. We would guard the campus. We were the security, and then we come on a different shift. We come to work from like from 6:00 PM to 12:00 AM or 6:00 AM to 2:00 AM, and we had to come and night work through the daytime. You see? 50 20:45.000 --> 21:17.000 And we walk around the campus and observe certain things. Each we was assigned a certain part of the campus, to work with me. [indistinct 00:20:54] tools and all this kind of thing. That was the security day and night — student security. And with that kind of work, and as I got to make pretty good grades, they gave me a job working in the history department. In college I was a good history student. 51 21:17.000 --> 22:08.000 And so because of my academic record, Mr. Alonzo Davis, who was professor of psychology, he was also director of the workforce, he [indistinct 00:21:35] one time. And because the student make good grade he considered a job on campus. [indistinct 00:21:46]. So I got a job working at history department, you see? And my last two years job was in the history department, so I graded the papers. And when the school was going through depression and they couldn't hire enough teaching, they had me teaching the class. 52 22:08.000 --> 22:13.000 Did you have any particular favorite teachers? 53 22:13.000 --> 23:02.000 Yes, I did. I have some very favorite teachers. I like them all but my most favorite was Dr. Robert Daniel Reed. He taught me my freshman year. Robert Daniel Reed, he's deceased now. His wife still lives here in Tuskegee. We talk all the time. He [indistinct 00:22:42] in Alabama. I think he was born in Selma, Alabama. I think his father a politician and a [indistinct 00:22:54] construction. You see. He was a state congressman of some kind. A senator or [indistinct 00:23:02]. 54 23:02.000 --> 23:39.000 But anyway, he was a very brilliant lecturer of history. And he said he liked it. You see? He taught me my first year history. And I made such high grades that he needed [indistinct 00:23:22] the class [indistinct 00:23:24]. Said he was very surprised that he graded that he wanted to give me a 100. I got all questions, I knew [indistinct 00:23:31] answers we had. And from that one, he liked me and he used to come get me explain things in class, and I all I get [indistinct 00:23:40]. 55 23:39.000 --> 24:19.000 So get me to read. You see? So then as I was working on landscape in my second year, and he came out here, and he saw me and we talk, he took me outside and said that he was sure I was working for [indistinct 00:23:54]. And he wondered if I wanted to kind of work with him. I said, "I wish I could get [indistinct 00:24:00]. I want to talk with my [indistinct 00:24:03]." And so he [indistinct 00:24:09] and told him, "Dr. Reed want me to come over. He said that I had a good reputation for my work on the job, keep it up [indistinct 00:24:16]". 56 24:19.000 --> 24:50.000 So my last two years, I was in the history department. I graded the students papers mostly— I could tell you the truth, I have never cheated in my life. My God hears me talking now. But I never graded a paper, gave a student a grade. He answered that question. I did my work. And they could depend on me. I was trustworthy. I have never cheated a student, for a student. 57 24:50.000 --> 24:54.000 Now, you were at Tuskegee between 1937 and 1941. 58 24:54.000 --> 24:56.000 Right. 59 24:56.000 --> 25:07.000 In 1941, I've read that there was a strike at the school. I don't know much about that. Can you tell me about that? 60 25:07.000 --> 25:49.000 Yes, I can. I guess I can. I became the leader of the strike. I don't tell if it hurts. There's negativity in terms of the school image and stuff. What had happened was the school was going through difficult time because of unemployment, depression and stuff. And the school was having a difficult time getting to switching [indistinct 00:25:37] operators, Tuskegee was a private school. And they started to reduce the cost of the food. 61 25:49.000 --> 26:21.000 The food service in the cafeteria where we all ate, until the food we've got less palatable to the students and they started complaining about it. Someone wrote an article and the school [indistinct 00:26:04] digest, student paper about it and so on, you see. That's one thing, and then there was some other things [indistinct 00:26:11] difficulties, the administration tighten down on us and made sure we did our jobs and all those kinds of things, you see. 62 26:21.000 --> 27:05.000 The student didn't all that and so they got together and started complaining. So the student council set up a meeting to discuss our problem. And they had some other problems too that that someone got expelled this, something like— Different things. They were not too pleased the way things were going. But I was on the student council, I was a member of the student council. So they call a special meeting one evening late down in the council office, under cafeteria. They sent someone else to my office— my room [indistinct 00:27:03]. 63 27:05.000 --> 27:06.000 You were the president of the student council? 64 27:06.000 --> 27:06.000 No, no, I ran for it but I didn't get elected. 65 27:06.000 --> 27:07.000 Okay. 66 27:07.000 --> 27:09.000 I was one of the three candidates but I didn't get elected. 67 27:09.000 --> 27:09.000 Okay. 68 27:09.000 --> 28:02.000 What I'm saying is that I was on the student council and I had been an influential student. I was a candidate, you see? And I'd been making history speeches. I was a captain in ROTC at that time. I'd in what you call Negro History Week in February, they had me to speak speak in chapel, the students. We had president speech and so on, so they liked me. So anyway, when I went down under the cafeteria to hold the meeting about the condition, what can we do about it? Then they [indistinct 00:27:59] that a strike could be called. 69 28:02.000 --> 28:31.000 When he came to my room and told me to come on to the meeting, they want me to be down there. They told him to come get me. So I went down to the meeting, and that happened. They got some of other [indistinct 00:28:11] come too, you see. I was home. In all fairness to myself, I didn't play around the school. I got my lessons, I studied. And I had an ambition to graduate and take care of my mother, because she had gotten sick, you see. Before I came to college. 70 28:31.000 --> 29:07.000 My brother, he worked up in construction, but they laid him off and so on. So I promised her that I'm going to finish school and come back and get a job and take care of her for the rest of her life. That was on my mind too. So after a lot of time in school setting, I was [indistinct 00:28:45] somewhere then and they came and got me [indistinct 00:28:48]. And so I went to the meeting. The council [indistinct 00:28:54] sent for me, but the follow who was presiding he was one of my buddies. He was the vice president of the council. The president of the council was off on a study leave, on leave. 71 29:07.000 --> 29:35.000 He was away from campus. So the vice president took over. He and I were almost like brothers. And so I kind of wanted to help him get pressure off of him. We were seniors, we're going to graduate this year too, you see. So, anyway, we had that meeting in the council, and he told why they called the meeting with the conditions and so on, and— 72 29:35.000 --> 30:14.000 I don't think [indistinct 00:29:36] really [indistinct 00:29:36] a vote to [indistinct 00:29:37]. So he said, "Now anybody got any question before we take the vote?" I said, "Yes, I have a question." And I got up, ask him, [indistinct 00:29:46] having said, I got something to say. I got up, and God is my judge. I tried to persuade the student council, that this wouldn't be the wisest thing to do. And I said, "You know the leadership of the school, the president and on is going to feel insulted. And the result is going to be the leaders are I was going to be the leaders going to get expelled. 73 30:14.000 --> 31:05.000 Some of those leaders are going to be expelled first. And I said "Now—" they have— I think there's six of us in this meeting. I think we had about 14, 15 there present. I think four of us [indistinct 00:30:34] who were seniors and graduating this May. And I said, "Would rather for us to let this situation go on, and stay in school and get our lessons and graduate. And then we go out and get jobs and send or bring money back to help our students. [indistinct 00:30:59], we call this, Jack, we're going to get expelled." 74 31:05.000 --> 31:40.000 We were the more mature student, the upper class and definitely [indistinct 00:31:09] for them. We're leaders too. And I said, "Let's go ahead and graduate and come back and solve the problem this way." We went [indistinct 00:31:16]. "Well, some [indistinct 00:31:19], nobody is scared. We're not scared and [indistinct 00:31:32]." And so finally I talked to him, they said things on. They want to voted to strike. 75 31:40.000 --> 32:20.000 When they get ready to take a vote to strike, a fellow told them, he said, "Wait then, before you take the vote, we got something to say. We got something to say to us, and you're better if we got to say [indistinct 00:31:54]." "Okay, what you got to say?" He got on the stage right here, [indistinct 00:32:02], "I want everybody to here," he said, "We heard about this potential strike, and some of us at the meeting and we have made a decision that there's only one condition which we'll strike." He said, "What is that one thing? Why? What one condition?" "We mean it and that is how we're going to strike. What is it?" 76 32:20.000 --> 33:07.000 "Our condition is that if we're to strike, we will agree that the leader of this strike will be James Woodson." They were shocked, because I hadn't said one thing in favor of the strike or anything. And so they all turned and looked at me, and said, "What you got to say about that?" Anyway I hadn't said anything about that. I have been trying to sway them not to do it. I said, "I got something to say, so I want you all listen to me good. I want to talk y'all." We've been speaking, I told them that we don't have the kind of administration who's going to give in to our protest and so on, you see. 77 33:07.000 --> 33:54.000 And they're not going to tolerate that. And if we got out on strike, some of us are going to get expelled. And I said, "I recommend that if we go ahead and we had the strike—" You see? I recommend that we postpone the strike and don't have it. This time I gave them a chance to improve this in the cafeteria. You see? "And we'll go ahead and graduate and then we'll come back and ease off and see how y'all are doing and we'll bring money if you all promise you won't strike." 78 33:54.000 --> 34:32.000 [indistinct 00:33:55], we're going to get expelled. Oh, "[indistinct 00:33:55]. You scared." So finally, I said, "What are you going to say? Well, the students [indistinct 00:33:59] I'll be leaving." And I understand why because just like I wrote that article there when it got around in my junior year I was good in Black history. So whenever they had a thing to go do they get me to make the presentation on Black history. So in a way— Definitely in school organizations too, [indistinct 00:34:24] club and everything, bring me in to speak about famous Black women or whatever. 79 34:32.000 --> 35:13.000 So nevertheless, they said, "Well, [indistinct 00:34:34] what do you say?" I said, "Well, I don't know. I'm trying to think." I said, "I have one condition I'll make if your students don't agree with that," I said, "I leave." "Well, what's your condition?" I said, "If I am going to lead this strike, will you students promise me that you will take your strategy, instruction, from me as a leader and not do anything else you wanted to do? [indistinct 00:35:01]" "[indistinct 00:35:01] about that?" "Yeah, yeah, we'll follow." "We'll follow." "Why are you going to follow?" "We believe. We believe you." "We believe in you." 80 35:13.000 --> 36:03.000 Well, later we'll be talking about Frederick Douglass. The role of the Black life [indistinct 00:35:19], and all that. And believe he was, [indistinct 00:35:24] slavery. "Oh, he's [indistinct 00:35:29] Frederick Douglas." So okay, they agreed. They voted that I could lead the strike [indistinct 00:35:38] I believe. Well, the second day or the third day, let's say, one of the campus security persons came to me and said, "Mr. Woodson, will you go see Dr. Patterson?" "Are you talking about Paterson?" "Yeah." I said, "He wants to see me? "Yeah." 81 36:03.000 --> 36:35.000 So he took me and see him, and Dr. Patterson had me [indistinct 00:36:09]. I [indistinct 00:36:10] "You're leading a strike?" I said, "Yeah." "Well, you know my parents got no money, so I'm grateful I guess." He said, "Well, what do the students want?" "They had picked me, [indistinct 00:36:23]." I told him what they were talking about the food and cafeteria and better treatment from the administration, in fact, your local press we call it. 82 36:35.000 --> 37:29.000 He said that, "Well, I'm going to ask you a question now, so you think about this and give me an answer. Do you think you, as the leader of the strike, would have the authority to call this strike off?" I said, "Well, we'll see now." I said, "I can think of one thing which I could." "What's that?" I said, "If you would give me a written statement that we had this meeting now. That we had this meeting, and you have promised me that if the students would agree to come off strike to behave and to return to class, that you'll examine all of our grievances and try to give us a satisfactory solution, I said I'll [indistinct 00:37:27] on this condition and try to call this strike off." 83 37:29.000 --> 37:49.000 I [indistinct 00:37:34]. You see? 84 37:49.000 --> 38:43.000 So he looked at me, he got out of his seat and looked down on me, and we both sitting in his office. "So you mean to tell me that you're just a student here, and I'm the president in the school, and you're going to tell me to give you a written statement?" The man had a temper, and I don't want to attack him now. See? I knew that. I said, "Dr. Pat, I'm not trying to insult you. I don't disrespect you. And I respect very much. You're asking me to judge a difficult question that I call off the strike, and the students [indistinct 00:38:32] and that's just the only way I can do it." I said to him. "And I will do it." 85 38:43.000 --> 39:26.000 Looked at me, [indistinct 00:38:44], "Well, I want to tell you here. You're just a student here, and I'm the president, and I'm not going to give you a written statement." And I said, "Well, Mr. president if we can't solve the problem", I stopped the conversation and got up and I left. And the next day as I was working out, I was expelled. I finally had to go [indistinct 00:39:11] but I wouldn't leave. I kept coming around. And so [indistinct 00:39:16], "Mr. Woodson, why aren't you going home? You've been expelled, why aren't you going home?" I said, "Kevin, [indistinct 00:39:23]" "Yeah. Yeah." I said, "I don't have enough money to go from here [indistinct 00:39:26]." 86 39:26.000 --> 40:11.000 [indistinct 00:39:26]. I told him, "[indistinct 00:39:26]. I truly don't have money to go down south. I'll be here." [indistinct 00:39:39]. [indistinct 00:39:45] train station ticket, [indistinct 00:39:47] Youngstown, Ohio. "Will you go home now?" I said, "If I got to." So I packed [indistinct 00:39:54] and I left. You see? Well, I don't know now— See, the president of the student government was Arthur Dickens, he was a football player, a good one too. But he was off on agriculture interning in the second [indistinct 00:40:10]. 87 40:11.000 --> 40:14.000 Who was the vice president you mentioned you were good friends with? 88 40:14.000 --> 40:16.000 Wilbur Hines. 89 40:16.000 --> 40:17.000 Wilbur Hines? 90 40:17.000 --> 40:22.000 Wilbur Hines. W-I-L-B-U-R H-I-N-E-S. Wilbur Hines. 91 40:22.000 --> 40:26.000 And what was the outcome of the strike? 92 40:26.000 --> 40:35.000 The outcome of the strike was— Let's see, the outcome of the strike. 93 40:35.000 --> 40:37.000 Did it last the entire rest of the school year? 94 40:37.000 --> 40:41.000 Oh no. No, it didn't last more than two weeks— 95 40:41.000 --> 40:43.000 Two weeks. 96 40:43.000 --> 40:52.000 It's that long. Nearly two weeks. That's they expelled us. They expelled how many now? 200? 97 40:52.000 --> 40:52.000 They expelled 200 students? 98 40:52.000 --> 41:12.000 Yeah, at least 200. And most of them were sent home, and then [indistinct 00:41:04] 14 of the students stood by their [indistinct 00:41:05]. So that was broken up [indistinct 00:41:09]. 99 41:12.000 --> 41:41.000 Do you think that the conditions improved after that or as a result of the strike? Did the condition seem to improve after this strike you think? 100 41:41.000 --> 41:42.000 I wouldn't be able to tell you. 101 41:42.000 --> 41:45.000 And now, just a couple of— 102 41:45.000 --> 41:48.000 I heard it then. I heard it then. 103 41:48.000 --> 41:50.000 So it makes you— 104 41:50.000 --> 42:09.000 See, now I want this published, but see remember one thing now. Here's a man in whose presence [indistinct 00:41:56] trying [indistinct 00:41:57] America, and the students would strike. That could have caused him his job, and the [indistinct 00:42:06] now. You were talking about—? 105 42:09.000 --> 42:12.000 So did you come back after 1941? 106 42:12.000 --> 42:13.000 Yes. 107 42:13.000 --> 42:16.000 And graduate? So they accepted you back? 108 42:16.000 --> 42:59.000 Yeah, I came back in about two years later. They accepted me to come back, but I didn't come back until I think it was two years later and I got my degree. The sad thing about me was I didn't need anything academically to graduate. I had more than enough hours to graduate, and they included everything that was required, plus I had teachings [indistinct 00:42:52]. I had the teachings I was paid. You see? 109 42:59.000 --> 43:04.000 Was that one of the conditions that the students that you were trying to address with—? 110 43:04.000 --> 43:04.000 What? 111 43:04.000 --> 43:08.000 With the strike was getting paid for teaching. 112 43:08.000 --> 43:15.000 No, no, no. That was coming for my student for work credits. 113 43:15.000 --> 43:15.000 Okay. 114 43:15.000 --> 44:16.000 They were paying my bill. And it was a good experiencle too. Plus they [indistinct 00:43:20] me also at the end of the year, I was going to get an all-expense fellowship to Holly Hill or something. [indistinct 00:43:30] going on Holly Hill with [indistinct 00:43:32]. But anyway, they won't give me the desirable fellowship [indistinct 00:43:36] as a reward for my teaching. So it was no feeling about that, you see? It was the same value that I had finished all my required work. If you look at my transcript now, you'll see I took two major courses twice. I made an A in them both times. And that was [indistinct 00:43:59] so I had to finish that I already had before. But you've got to accept the fact you'd had led a strike, and been expelled, and so on. I can be in Booker T. Washington too, you see? "Do what you have to do." 115 44:16.000 --> 44:19.000 Right. 116 44:19.000 --> 44:40.000 Like [indistinct 00:44:18] said, he was pretty but [indistinct 00:44:21] rich White people like Carnegie, and Rockefeller, and [indistinct 00:44:27], he was doing pretty [indistinct 00:44:28] wasn't anybody else. But Booker T. Washington knew because if he's going to keep this school open he had to get some money. Now when he had to get some money, how was he going to get— who got the money? 117 44:40.000 --> 45:25.000 The Black man didn't have it. You see? And they go no reason they would not give it. Okay, so now if I'm trying to raise one off of you, and you got a big family somewhere, and I want to go back to school or keep the school operating and running, I got to come to you from [indistinct 00:45:02] and convince you this invaluable to the point that you give it to me. [indistinct 00:45:08] cause, see? Okay, but Booker Washington knew that. And so he wanted to see if he would learn things about them. He had people researching formulas, and he [indistinct 00:45:20] what would impress them, what are they like? You see. 118 45:25.000 --> 46:22.000 Someone has something very special, he take [indistinct 00:45:27], different things like that. And he tell you what you want to hear, and he gets what he can get from you and he go back to what he want to with it. Now, history doesn't record it, anyone [indistinct 00:45:43] down somewhere but it can be proven. I can prove it that with Booker T. Washington, with the money he raised for the school, or otherwise. I've been dealing with my own civil rights cases. [indistinct 00:45:55] segregation and so on. I think he would say that was a part of the whole mission. And he did do that, and maybe some of the people who doesn't have him in mind. And that's research we haven't found. But he did— He probably felt more on civil rights issues than any of those people who complain against him. 119 46:22.000 --> 46:22.000 So where did you go after Tuskegee? Where was your next—? 120 46:22.000 --> 46:22.000 Where did I go? 121 46:22.000 --> 46:22.000 Yeah. 122 46:22.000 --> 46:37.000 After I went home from the strike, a young fellow hired me and I moved to Youngstown. I got— well, I tried to get in the school up in Youngstown but they wouldn't take me in because of the strike, they read about me. 123 46:37.000 --> 46:38.000 Youngstown State? 124 46:38.000 --> 46:40.000 Yeah. They recommended that I come back here. 125 46:40.000 --> 46:42.000 Oh, really? 126 46:42.000 --> 46:46.000 Yeah.