James T. "Red" Eaves: And an oven and my furnace went bad one winter and I had a guarantee on it. Then I was out about a thousand dollars for labor, see? And I told him, I said no. I said, "You don't appreciate." That's been oh a year. I guess it's been about a couple years ago. I haven't been back in the place of business. 

Alex Byrd: But can you tell me something about when you started in the coal mines, Mr. Eaves? 

James T. "Red" Eaves: Yeah. I went in the mine, I guess, let me think a minute. I don't—wait a minute. I guess I was around 18. 

Alex Byrd: Around 18. 

James T. "Red" Eaves: 19 or 18, and they hired me and my brother and my first cousin. 

Alex Byrd: Which brother, the younger brother? 

James T. "Red" Eaves: Oldest. 

Alex Byrd: The oldest child. 

James T. "Red" Eaves: And his first cousin. 

Alex Byrd: Well, how'd you get that job? 

James T. "Red" Eaves: Well, the job was down here at White City. Now, the other day when we went to Madisonville, remember I took this back road? And when I hit, well, in other words, I went to back road and over to my right when I turned down there around that truck stop. You remember my truck stop down there around Mortons Gap? 

Alex Byrd: I think so. 

James T. "Red" Eaves: Well anyway, that road goes on back another way to White City, see, and we'd walk down there. That's the only way you had to go was walking, and there was dirt road. We walked down there. Well, the superintendent needs some extra coal, so he hired all three of us, and we went to work on a night shift. 

James T. "Red" Eaves: They had cars, I mean, they were monsters too, and you shovel, time you go in there until you come out and had a guy come in there and pull a car out and put your new one in there, you see. 

Alex Byrd: So did you take a shovel with you or they give you a shovel? 

James T. "Red" Eaves: No, they give us a shovel. I believe they did. Now, I don't know, it's been a long time ago. But anyway, I'm pretty sure they must give it us or sold to it us and take us out of pay, because I didn't have no money nohow. 

Alex Byrd: You's going down there to make some money. 

James T. "Red" Eaves: That's right, and we worked about, I don't know, maybe three or four months, something like that, and then he laid us off. 

Alex Byrd: Why he do that? 

James T. "Red" Eaves: Well, there wasn't no demand for coal. 

Alex Byrd: There wasn't no demand. 

James T. "Red" Eaves: I stayed around there while, and then I went to Louisville. I come, it's working up there for a construction company. 

Alex Byrd: How'd you find that job? 

James T. "Red" Eaves: Well, they had a union hall where you'd go low. Somebody wanted somebody to work, they'd call in there, see. 

Alex Byrd: Louisville had one of those, or they had one here? 

James T. "Red" Eaves: Louisville, in Louisville. See I lived in Louisville then, see. 

Alex Byrd: Did you go up to Louisville to find work? [indistinct 00:04:06] 

James T. "Red" Eaves: Yeah, went up there to find work. I hoboed a train up there. 

Alex Byrd: By yourself? 

James T. "Red" Eaves: Yeah. But see, I had a brother over there. My youngest, Bill, was already living in Louisville, see, Melbourne. 

Alex Byrd: You think. 

James T. "Red" Eaves: I had an auntie living up there, and so I went up there. I never will forget the first day, I washed cars all day long up there, 50 cents a car. 

Alex Byrd: At a car wash or? 

James T. "Red" Eaves: Well, just around a garage, wasn't no car wash, just a garage, area where you could wash cars. I believe it was on the outside, you see? 

James T. "Red" Eaves: Then I went out to this local union hall, and Quentin Burkes sitting there and got, I don't remember how many people. We went out there and went to work, and they was building government barracks. I worked for them, clean on up until October in '41. Then I went in service. And after service, I come back through Louisville. But I couldn't make enough money. I was money crazy. Didn't have no money, and the mines were paying more than anybody else there. 

Alex Byrd: You went in the service in '41, came out, and when did you come out? 

James T. "Red" Eaves: I come out in last of '45 or first of '46. 

Alex Byrd: When were you in CCCs? 

James T. "Red" Eaves: That was before then. 

Alex Byrd: So you was in CCCs even before you, was that after your first coal mine job or before? 

James T. "Red" Eaves: That was before. 

Alex Byrd: Well, what'd you do in CCCs? 

James T. "Red" Eaves: Well, in CCCs, it was Civilian Conservation Corps. 

Alex Byrd: Conservation Corps. 

James T. "Red" Eaves: Ok. Down in Russellville, they had this limestone rock. Lot of time we would work on those big rich people's farm down there. We had a little old hammer where we'd break rocks and sometimes we would work on land, trenches and stuff like that, where the water would go year and yonder, you see, and that's what we did in the CCCs then. 

Alex Byrd: Did you work with other guys from around here? 

James T. "Red" Eaves: Yeah, because my brother, he come in there later on as I was coming out. See, the pass some kind of law that he couldn't stand there over three years or something like, over 24 months, I believe it was. 

Alex Byrd: That's how long you stayed in? 

James T. "Red" Eaves: No, I stayed in 29 months because that law come into effect when I was in there, so they discharged us and took some more. But see right after that, the war broke out, see? 

Alex Byrd: So that's when went to the army. 

James T. "Red" Eaves: Yeah. But see in the meantime, I come out of CCCs and my brother went, and I believe he come out too, I believe. So you must remember that was in '39. 

Alex Byrd: '39. 

James T. "Red" Eaves: '39. Yeah, '39. 

Alex Byrd: Was there Blacks and Whites in CCCs? 

James T. "Red" Eaves: Well, no, they was segregated. You just had Black, White officers. 

Alex Byrd: So y'all didn't work with Whites at all then, did you? 

James T. "Red" Eaves: No. My most dealing with Whites was when I went in the coal mine. Of course, when I went in the mines up there where I work, all your bosses was White, see, and you work with Black. It might be some White guys in there, see, but that was hard work up there. The White man dodged it. 

Alex Byrd: He didn't want a load coal. 

James T. "Red" Eaves: No, he didn't want a load, and the coal was low, see, about 36 inches high. You'd have some of them in there. But most of them in there, they had the easiest job among, of course, all the work in there was hard. But some of the work was harder than others, you see, but anyway. 

Alex Byrd: Would've been the harder jobs, and what jobs did Blacks not get to do so much? 

James T. "Red" Eaves: Well, bossing, mostly bossing, and belts, see, they have guys walking belts, you see. 

Alex Byrd: They check on the belts. 

James T. "Red" Eaves: Yeah, and have a little shovel, clean up little spills on the belts, you see, and all the mechanics, they was White, see. 

Alex Byrd: Mechanics kept the belt in order and— 

James T. "Red" Eaves: Well, mechanics, they would work on equipment when it break down, see. And let's see, and they have some guys in there, they didn't have no education, White guys, and they called him a gang leader. He carried several Blacks off and work them, because he was White. Well, he didn't have mine forming paper, so they called him a gang leader, see. 

James T. "Red" Eaves: They'd give this guy a note what they want done. Well, he'd give it to Willie Lovens because he couldn't even read, see. Well anyway, when they swapped superintendents up there, he went to a bigger mines and they put another guy. 

Alex Byrd: This still at White City? 

James T. "Red" Eaves: No, this is Mannington. After I got out the army, you see, and me and him worked together for a long time. But anyway, when he becomes superintendent, me and him always got along pretty good. So he told me, he said, I told him, I said no. I said, "When you get that position, you be like the rest of them." He said, "No, only thing I'm looking for is [indistinct 00:11:18]." 

James T. "Red" Eaves: I said, "I'm going to treat you right." I said, "Time will tell." So when he got to be superintendent, he began to put me on different job. You see? 

Alex Byrd: So until this point, you'd always been loading coal. 

James T. "Red" Eaves: Right, at the face of the coal. And he putting me on a, well, first I start working in the fire boss's place when he was off. 

Alex Byrd: That's the safe [indistinct 00:11:51]? 

James T. "Red" Eaves: No, that was the mine and guy that inspected the mine every morning before we go in, see. He going around about 4:30 or 4:00, inspect the working place. 

Alex Byrd: And he's called the fore boss? 

James T. "Red" Eaves: F-I-R-E, fire boss. He would examine the working places and come outside before the regular shift went in, see, make his report. Well, when he would go on vacation or was off, I was working his place, you see, and so— 

Alex Byrd: [indistinct 00:12:27] at about 30 now. 

James T. "Red" Eaves: So uh, they come to getting shorter bosses, guys were leaving there, going somewhere else. Then I began to work extra as a unit foreman. 

Alex Byrd: What's a unit foreman? 

James T. "Red" Eaves: That's a boss who works on a unit. Each unit in the mines got a number, number five unit, number four unit, whatnot, you see. 

Alex Byrd: So that's a area of? 

James T. "Red" Eaves: Right, a certain area. 

Alex Byrd: That's off the main like you was talking. 

James T. "Red" Eaves: Right, and so this superintendent, one that put me on that job. 

Alex Byrd: What was his name? 

James T. "Red" Eaves: Whitfield. 

Alex Byrd: Whitfield. 

James T. "Red" Eaves: Wes Whitfield. Then he brought me to the bottom. That's where you dump coal. The guy that was working down there, he quit. 

Alex Byrd: And that's the bottom is really at the top? 

James T. "Red" Eaves: No, the bottom. You see, when you go down the slope, when it level off. 

Alex Byrd: That's the bottom. 

James T. "Red" Eaves: That's the bottom, and we had a big pit, about big as this house, with a track over it, and the locomotive would come over there and dump cars that they would trip the bottom, the door swing open, the coal fall down the pit. Then they had a belt up under the pit, would carry it outside, see. So I started knowing that and Whitfield left there, and this other superintendent come back. Well, he didn't know I had mine foreman papers. 

Alex Byrd: You already had mine foreman papers then? 

James T. "Red" Eaves: Yeah. 

Alex Byrd: Oh well, I missed when you got the papers. 

James T. "Red" Eaves: Well, I told you that other day because— 

Alex Byrd: You told it to me, though we didn't get it on tape. 

James T. "Red" Eaves: Well, I'll tell you about it now. 

Alex Byrd: These are my notes from the other day. Here you go. 

James T. "Red" Eaves: Huh? 

Alex Byrd: I see where you tell me when you started working on the bottom right here. 

James T. "Red" Eaves: You want me to go through that now? 

Alex Byrd: Yeah, tell me how you got to be a foreman. 

James T. "Red" Eaves: Well, I inspected this, worked in this guy's place— 

Alex Byrd: The fire— 

James T. "Red" Eaves: The fire boss, so I came out one morning, the Black boys raised Cain, and some Whites, mostly Black, said he don't have a fire boss papers to inspect this mine. So Whitfield asked me would I go to school and make fire boss appointments. I told him yeah. But in the meantime, why I go to school for one thing when you could go to school for the whole deal, fire boss, [indistinct 00:16:11] foreman, anything found in that category. So I went, made first place papers. 

Alex Byrd: About what year was this? This in the '60s? 

James T. "Red" Eaves: Yeah. Let's see, it might have been in the first part of '70s. Might have been, I think it was, so then I worked back there as a boss. He wanted to hire me as a face boss, but I didn't want to get out the union. I had my miner's pension made, you see. Well, I don't like to put all my eggs in one basket, because one basket, they all break. Then you gone, see. 

James T. "Red" Eaves: So I was pretty active in the union, and before that, during that time, now a little bit before that, they brought me out of the mines as a district worker for district 23, UMWA. Well, all that was political, because Ball was running for president, see. So, got one Black, four Whites out of the largest locals union in West Kentucky. So when he got back in office, we went back to the mine, you see. 

James T. "Red" Eaves: But anyway, after that, they inspected, job becomes circulating around in this area. Wasn't no Black coal miner inspectors, period, see, and they was working for the government. So I took a civil service test, me and another guy, and they said we didn't pass. We just got a little old note from the government saying, "not pass," or I don't know, it's been so long. I didn't pay no attention. 

James T. "Red" Eaves: Then about a month, month and a half later, a guy from Washington named Rick Harris. He stopped over here in Madisonville at the Holiday Inn and called me and said, "Eaves," said, "I'm Rick Harris, I'm out of Washington DC," said, "I hear you want to become a federal mine inspector." 

James T. "Red" Eaves: I said, "Well, I was interested in one time." And I said, "I didn't pass the test." He said, "Come over here, let me talk to you." I didn't know him from Adam's apple, and he told me, he says, "Reason you didn't get in, they didn't have no Black inspectors." 

Alex Byrd: They just weren't hiring no Black inspectors? 

James T. "Red" Eaves: No, they weren't hiring none. 

Alex Byrd: And this was the '70s? 

James T. "Red" Eaves: Yeah. 

Alex Byrd: Goodness. 

James T. "Red" Eaves: Wait a minute. 

Alex Byrd: Or the '60s? 

James T. "Red" Eaves: Yeah. Wait a minute. Well, let's see now. I believe late part of the '60s, late part of the '60s. But anyway, he said, "Well," he said, "they wasn't hiring no Black inspectors, but if you're interested in it, I'll see that you get in." I said, "Well," I said, "I'm not going to give up my miner's pension." I said, "I'm going to write Tony Ball a letter, and see if it affects my miner's pension." 

James T. "Red" Eaves: So I wrote him a letter and he, Tony Ball, answered right back and said it wasn't affecting my pension. See I know Tony Ball personally, because when he'd come down here on a visit, I would be on the committee. You see? 

James T. "Red" Eaves: So I went on in and, well, let me back up just a little bit. When I started working for the district, I had been working about two weeks. I went over there one Monday morning, and district manager told me, he said, "Jimmy, I'm going to have to let you go. The men's can't get nothing out of you. You didn't mess up the barrel fund money." 

James T. "Red" Eaves: Asked me three questions and didn't give me time to answer. Mines on vacation, you see, said when the mines go back off vacation, you can go on back to the mine. 

Alex Byrd: And what's the barrel fund? 

James T. "Red" Eaves: No, no. Well, I'm going to get to that. And I wanted to ask him a question and he walked out the door. So I was talking to him, a local president, the president of the local union told him about it, and he said there's something else behind him. 

James T. "Red" Eaves: Well, one Black, two or three Whites got to some of the field workers out the office, told them I had took all the barrel fund money and messed it up. They couldn't get nothing out of me, see, and told them a whole lot of junk. They told this guy about it, Austin, district president, see. So that's the reason he fired me, he said, see, because I think he was getting pressure from a lot of these White guys, because they put a Black over at the work, see. 

James T. "Red" Eaves: So I wrote Tony Ball a letter, told them that it was supposed to be organized labor. I said, "The man fired me and I don't believe a scab." That's what they call a non-union, a scab but foreman, like that. Well, they sent two international board members in here to investigate it. I went over there, my president committees went with me. 

James T. "Red" Eaves: They didn't make no decision, then Ball had to make the decision, so I left. Out at the mine, one evening I got a call. This guy that was the president over there, they removed him, put another guy in there, see, and I went on back to work over there, see, and that really hurted me. I didn't think a guy would do something like that before you would investigate something. 

James T. "Red" Eaves: See, if somebody tell you something, if you going to act on it, you'd get the details before you act on it. But he didn't, see, and I asked him at that meeting, I said, "How come you didn't act on him?" And he didn't say a word. I said, "I guess you did it because I was a Black." He still didn't say a word. 

James T. "Red" Eaves: But anyway, they moved him out office and put this other boy. But after Tony Ball got in to be president, we all went back to the mine except one guy and they made him president of a district, 23, you see. But anyway, now I'll get back to the, well, now what did I drop off? 

Alex Byrd: You was talking about how you got to be a miner. 

James T. "Red" Eaves: Oh yeah, that's right, and Rick Harris is the one called me to be a federal mine inspector, because he said he was going from Washington to Denver recruiting minority mine inspectors. But anyway, I got a letter from Barbersville, Kentucky, said I'd be stationed up there and I told my wife, I said, "I ain't going to no Barbersville," up in eastern part of Kentucky, close to Virginia line. 

James T. "Red" Eaves: That same, must have been the next evening, Rick called me, said, "Jimmy," he said, "I hear you got your assignment," said, "there's a problem?" I said, "No, it ain't no problem because I'm not going. He said, "Well, I'll tell you what," he said, "go ahead and accept it. Let me see what I can do on this end." 

James T. "Red" Eaves: So Childers was a district president. Rick told me that he saw him in Washington. See he asked him, said, "How about station Eaves in Madisonville?" Childers told him he couldn't do it. So Rick told him all right. He saw Childers's boss, I don't know, they must have been in the same office or something. 

James T. "Red" Eaves: Said he asked him, and said, "Yeah, I'll put him in Madisonville," said, "I'll call Childers now." He picked up the phone, called Childers and said, "Rick got his friend down there in White Plains. I want you to put him in Madisonville district." Childers told him that, "Yeah, I'll be glad to do that." 

Alex Byrd: You think they were trying to keep you out Madisonville? 

James T. "Red" Eaves: Yeah. 

Alex Byrd: Why you think they didn't want you in Madisonville? 

James T. "Red" Eaves: Well, they didn't have none in Evansville, in Indiana, you see. 

Alex Byrd: No Black? 

James T. "Red" Eaves: No, didn't have none, see, but anyway, Rick said he saw Childers about two weeks later in Washington. So he walked up to him, told him, said, "I was going to put Eaves in Madisonville for a long time." But see, he wasn't going put me down there. 

James T. "Red" Eaves: I worked in Madisonville office. Of course, I know the guy that was acting district manager, because he used to inspect our mines, see. He was a guy, had a big belly on the man. He had a hard time in that little old [indistinct 00:27:35], see, and he was from Indiana too. 

James T. "Red" Eaves: But I went on and inspect the mines, and see, when you inspecting mine, you don't deal with the little man. You deal with people's got authority. They appreciate they job, and they know if they give you any trouble, you can make it hard on them. 

Alex Byrd: Then was there a difference in working with Whites in the mines before you became a mine inspector and after you became a mine inspector, what was it like? 

James T. "Red" Eaves: Well, those guys up at Mannington, where I worked, when one of them come into mines—most of them are new guys, never worked in the mine before in their lives—they depend on Blacks to learn them. Now, a guy that's been working in the mine, he wouldn't hardly come up at Mannington. He wouldn't do that kind of hard work, see. So if a man depending on you, he ain't get no static from him, see. Now, I'm sure some of them had that in them, but they didn't show it because— 

Alex Byrd: Because the work was hard and dangerous. 

James T. "Red" Eaves: Now, that's right, see, and you depend on one another, you see, and one guy in particular, I like the guy. 

Alex Byrd: And it's still over at Mannington? 

James T. "Red" Eaves: Yeah, and he was bolting the roof. See, your rock is in layers, like that, see. Layer here like that, see. When you bolt them together, it makes it thicker, you see. That keeps them from falling, see. 

Alex Byrd: Keeps the top from coming down. 

James T. "Red" Eaves: Especially miner [indistinct 00:29:28], see, but now you take a place [indistinct 00:29:31] than my garage, maybe 8 or 10 feet thick. Ain't nothing you can do about it but listen for it, because it's going make noise before it falls. Sound just like thunder, you see, and you know it's way up, you see. But anyway, this guy, he was running this bolt machine and got careless. We would put the boats on four foot centers, see, one pinned to another be four feet. Anywhere you go, you see, be four feet. 

James T. "Red" Eaves: Well, he's running about six feet apart. And I said some to him, I said, "Now, you getting these pins too far apart." See, he was going in the place and pining. We come in behind there with the cutting machine. We cut the place and after we get out, the guy go there and shoot it. Then you loading machine go in behind him. 

James T. "Red" Eaves: In other words, it's a rotation. You go in there and do your thing. A guy behind you going in and do his thing, you see, and the last man in there is a loader, and he cleans up the place. He's just, he's circling all times. And he got hostile with me, and he was a White guy. 

James T. "Red" Eaves: So I told him, I said, "Well," I said, "Now, if you don't pin to suit me when we go in there, we'll put a timber." That's just a straight leg with a head and [indistinct 00:31:10], and you wedge it up to the roof, you see. But anyway, about two or three months later, piece of rock fell on him was as big as this couch and paralyzed him from waist down. 

James T. "Red" Eaves: He went to the hospital and stayed in there for a good while. Every time I go to the hospital to see him, he comes crying, see. He know he did that on his self, you see. But he want to hurry up, get in a place and get out and sit and wait on somebody else to go in there, do their thing, you see. But I mean I felt sorry for the guy, but I don't know whether he did it intentionally or just ignorant. Then again, you find some guys, they don't want a Black man tell them nothing, you see. 

Alex Byrd: Was there ever trouble in the mines you worked in between Blacks and Whites? 

James T. "Red" Eaves: I guess once, about, let me see, shit, I guess it's been 30 years ago along. We were riding in cars, going into work and this motor jumped off in the track, see. And this guy was sitting in the car, in other words, always was sat down flat, where if something happened you could brace yourself. A lot of guy would just sit up right. 

James T. "Red" Eaves: But anyway, the motor jumped off in the track, and this guy fell over and here hit the car and commenced the bleeding, see. This guy told a guy operating the motor said, "You was going too damn fast." And a guy said, "I wasn't." And he said, "You was," and this White guy said, "You feel the other way, do something about it." 

James T. "Red" Eaves: Then the [indistinct 00:33:33] from him, I believe it was, said, "Hold it right there," said, "I don't want to hear no more." Told them, "Stop right there." But the guy that got his ear hurt, he told the foreman that he wanted to go out and go to the doctor. That's the only incident that, to my knowledge. 

James T. "Red" Eaves: Now, we had one face boss. Nobody at the mines didn't like him. The superintendent didn't like him, and well, he didn't come up through rank, see. What it was, his daddy, a big shot in Crofton, and just took him off of the belt, put him over mens, you see. And I didn't like him and the superintendent didn't like him. He didn't like the superintendent. They get into it all the time. So he come down on the bottom where I was and— 

Alex Byrd: This was back when you was working— 

James T. "Red" Eaves: At Mannington. 

Alex Byrd: At Mannington. 

James T. "Red" Eaves: Find something on the bottom, and he had me doing, see I had a whole lot of leisure time sitting around, see. He didn't like that, see. So he told me one evening, said, "In the morning, before coal begin to come into the bottom, I want you to go out there and clean up on that slope belt." 

James T. "Red" Eaves: Well, I couldn't even see the slope belt from where I was working, see, so the superintendent had to go to the big office that morning to a meeting. I asked him, I said, "This slope belt's pretty dirty." I said, "You reckon I can come out shovel on a little bit?" He said, "No, man, no way. Don't ever leave that pit." Said, "Something hang up down there," said, "mess up the whole run." And he was right. 

Alex Byrd: That's what the superintendent tells you. 

James T. "Red" Eaves: But this mine foreman want me to go out there and shovel on a belt. So we got walkie talkers in the mines, and so when he got up in the works, I was on the bottom. He called me over the loudspeaker. I know the superintendent was going to Madisonville and he said, "Eaves, you been on that slow belt yet?" 

James T. "Red" Eaves: I didn't say nothing. Said, "Do you hear what I said?" I said, "Yeah, I heared you." He asked me again. I said, "Well, I got news for you." He said, "What is it?" I said, "The superintendent told me you didn't have a damn thing to do with me. Your job was to get that coal down here to me." Everybody in the mines heared it. People on the outside heared it, see. 

James T. "Red" Eaves: And to cap it off, when I started inspecting mines, I'd go to his unit. Well, we had about five or six inspectors knowed him and didn't like him. We go to his unit and burn his butt. District manager asked me, he said, "Jimmy," he said, "how did you and Johnny make it when he was at Mannington?" I said, "Not worth a damn." He never sent none of us back out to that mine where this guy worked, and the guy finally died. 

Alex Byrd: In the coal mines? 

James T. "Red" Eaves: No, he didn't die in mine. He died after got laid off, because the mine closed up. But better, I stuck it into him rough, see, now see, he was denied that. He told me to go out there and shovel on that belt, see. 

Alex Byrd: Did he act like he hadn't told you? 

James T. "Red" Eaves: Yeah, he would've done. He was that type of fellow, see. See, here's something, but nobody don't like you in the mine. See something badly wrong with you, you see, nobody. I told superintendent one day, I said, "Well," I said, "I don't know what you going to do." I said, "Johnny ain't speaking to you." He said, "Well, I'll tell you one thing, if that coal quit coming out of that mine, I'll speak to him." And he meant it too. 

Alex Byrd: [indistinct 00:38:37]. 

James T. "Red" Eaves: Yeah, he meant it. 

Alex Byrd: Why do you think in the mines there was so a little trouble between Blacks and Whites? 

James T. "Red" Eaves: Well, I'll tell you what, when you in the mine, you got your own thing to do, you see. In other words, say if you were drilling, see, drilling the coal, you go in there and drill. All right, well, when dinnertime come, you all sit down and eat dinner together. But see, you working, and where you have trouble when people ain't working. They got time to shoot the bull, you see? 

James T. "Red" Eaves: But them guys over, as I tell you, most of them is the first time they've been underground was at that mine, you see. And most all of them was farms, come off from farms, you see, and they was hardworking guys. In there, you go in there and you would do your work. See now, that was on the bottom. I guess I worked about, I guess if you put all my work together, I didn't work two hours a day. 

James T. "Red" Eaves: Uh-uh. I didn't work two hours a day. I had a seat just like this, and I would reach up and press the button just like that. That's right. Then I was getting time and half a half an hour every day, because see I wouldn't stop for dinner. Because if I stopped for dinner, the pit might get full, so he told me, "Well, we just give you time and half, see." But my goodness, and I'd press a button, tell the guy on the outside, "Start my belt, bins full of coal." See, then on the end, they had another belt was dumping into that pit. See, all I do was sit there. 

Alex Byrd: You had a good job. 

James T. "Red" Eaves: Sure, I had a good job, and there was a ceiling was high as this was. I couldn't even reach the ceiling. 

Alex Byrd: So it wasn't one that was low. 

James T. "Red" Eaves: Nah-uh. See, what to do to shoot out. See they shoot out several areas in the mine you see. 

Alex Byrd: Down at the bottom, it's the highest ceiling then [indistinct 00:41:03]. 

James T. "Red" Eaves: See in other words, just like they going to, well, see, if they going to work on equipment, see, big equipment, they would go in the mine and shoot out area room and put a overhead hanger, where they could take stuff out of machinery, you see. 

James T. "Red" Eaves: See, they would make those areas in the coal mine, you see, and that's where it was on the bottom. All your cold come in there, you see, and I had chairs. See when I went down there, it was just as filthy as it could be, loose coal, coal dust everywhere. I went in there, I told the superintendent, I said, "I've been getting me some rough lumber, because people come down there when I'm working, they just in my way. 

James T. "Red" Eaves: I fixed these seats where they would be back out of my way. You see, and I guess to tuck a lot of month and a half. I fixed seats up there and [indistinct 00:42:16] dust it. It was just as white and clean, back in there, for the guy to go back in there. When they waiting on the man trip, they go back in there, sit down, you see. 

Alex Byrd: To rest. 

James T. "Red" Eaves: Yes. Had a lawn chair. It was where you could—You see these yard chairs with high backs to them? 

Alex Byrd: You can sit back on them. 

James T. "Red" Eaves: Yeah. I fix one down there, and the general manager come in mine one day. I hear the master superintendent say, "What you doing with a chair like this in here?" He said, "That fellow over there built all these chairs." 

Alex Byrd: You got to make the [indistinct 00:42:55]. 

James T. "Red" Eaves: Yeah, and every time he come in the mine, he'd grab that chair too. 

Alex Byrd: One of those big ones? 

James T. "Red" Eaves: Yeah. 

Alex Byrd: Was it different between Whites and Blacks out of the mines? 

James T. "Red" Eaves: Oh yeah. You see some of the guys that you've been working with, and if they by their self, or they speak to you in the count, have a little conversation. But if their wife was with them, they looked the other way, they wouldn't see you. But now if you had your wife with you, he's all up in your face, you see? 

Alex Byrd: In White Plains itself and in around White Plains, was all of it mostly segregated? Where could Black folks go to eat and stuff like that? 

James T. "Red" Eaves: Yeah, it was segregated to the T. Well see, let me see. They had one or two restaurants, you could go in there and buy something, but you didn't sit in there and drink. Of course, I was so small and I think they had a little beer or something, maybe under the counter that they—But see White Plains, I don't think they ever sold whiskey in White Plains. Nothing but bootleg whiskey, you see. 

James T. "Red" Eaves: We had a little incident here once though. Used to be a swimming hole down this way about, well, it was on that road we went to Madisonville, back here somewhere. I don't know if you remember or not, but it's a creek down in there. 

James T. "Red" Eaves: And I learned how to swim with a gallon bucket. A gallon bucket that had a lid on it so it wouldn't sink, you see. We learn how to swim in the pond. But anyway, you go down that creek, when you get in it, it's about 10 feet deep, you see, and you'd jump off it and go back into it, see. That's where we'd swim. The White boys would swim down there, you see. 

James T. "Red" Eaves: And sometimes wouldn't be over two or three of us, but then it'd be 10 or 12 of them, maybe more, they'd be down there swimming. This particular time we was coming away, and they was fixing to go in, and they ganged up, was going run us away from down there. And a guy by name of Lewis Drake, he picked up a stone and throwed in the bunch and broke this guy's wrist. Well, his daddy was a big wheel here in White Plains. 

Alex Byrd: The White boy that got his arm broken? 

James T. "Red" Eaves: Yeah. His daddy was a big wheel, see. Well, his daddy know my daddy. My daddy had been trading with him for years. Well, just about all the people here in White Plain trade with him, see, and he know all these Black people, and he know his son, see. They thought he was going to do something. 

James T. "Red" Eaves: He told him, said, "Well, I know those Black boys out there," and said, "They wouldn't bothering none these White boys." Because where we played ball, it used to be a little big ditch down there, water in there about a foot deep. We used to play in that water, see. I was real small then, see, wasn't another word said about it, and then had a cow pasture out there. 

James T. "Red" Eaves: Now, this boy was a little older than I am, but he had a brother around my age. And we played ball together—