WEBVTT 1 00:03.000 --> 01:28.000 You have people living in ghettos, you have trash not being taken out, you have poor health plan, poor people in the city. You have drugs that are destroying them. You have AIDS. You have pitting one people against the other. They call it ethnic cleansing. I don't know what they call it in Africa and other places where they're giving them guns. The United States and England are heading this, all of this. Now on the 5th of September of this year, I think it's the 5th, I was saying the 20th, but someone said It's the 5th. That is the organization I worked with, Sheila Institute. These five countries, heads of countries are going to have a meeting in Cairo, Egypt, and there they will finalize their plans on what is the next step to destroy people. 2 01:28.000 --> 02:36.000 We have five plus billion people in the world. The plan is to cut them down from five plus billion people to 2.5 billion people in the world. That's why they came up with abortions. But what it's going to be, it's going to be like this. Here, my daughter is just married and her husband said, "Well, we are going to have children." Okay, I find that I'm pregnant. She finds, in fact, but she's pregnant. So she goes to the doctor. The doctor said, "Yes, you are pregnant." Now all records go to the statistical department. See, you have the doctor has to send it to the state and the state sends it to the statistic department. 3 02:36.000 --> 03:55.000 Okay. It has said that, well, we already have 2.5 billion people in the world. We don't need anymore. She will have to have an abortion. Then there is, she goes to the doctor. The doctor says, "We got to kill this baby. You can't have a baby because we got enough people in the world." Then she has to have an abortion on demand. Kill it. You know anybody else until so many die. Then we die. We are to decide who's going to have a baby. And according to this information I have, only those whom the system would like to see living. You may have ever so big good a background and you might want a child ever so much, but if the system says that they don't want you to have a child, you don't have it. That's what we are fighting against. We are fighting to try to destroy this meeting that they're going to have in Cairo. 4 03:55.000 --> 05:23.000 And you know who will be the first ones. Black people will be the first ones that they will destroy. And they'll use some of us, just like they've got people in Africa now who are fighting against each other. And in Bosnia and Croatia and those countries. They are calling it ethnic cleansing. Now what kind of ethnic cleansing? I went to Croatia and those people lived together in peace, married and intermarried. And yet, some were given guns to fight against, in fact, the Serbs. Now the Serbs were like Whites in that they lived in a Croatian and lived in Bosnia, but they were being backed up by England and by the United States. That's why we don't bother. But yet what are we going to do down there in Haiti? We are destroying those people in Haiti with the saying that this is a democratic country and Aristide was elected by the people. So was Hitler. Is that any reason why they should say Hitler, "You stay there?" No, this is the system. 5 05:23.000 --> 06:24.000 And the system also through the years has made people think that you are inferior and you're superior. Because in the south you had many, many Black people who bought their freedom. They bought it. In the north, those people were brought on slave ships also. Those Europeans were brought on slave ships and were put in factories because our people lived near the sun and could afford to withstand the sun. We were put in the south. The Whites were put in the north and they were called indentured servants. Our people were called slaves. And it was only a difference because of the fact that they didn't want White people to feel as though they're on the same level with Blacks just because of the color of their skins. 6 06:24.000 --> 07:41.000 So this is why Black people need to get some independence and to believe in themselves. Unfortunately, the system, and I say the system because you got White people who understand and will work with us. But if you find a White person who wants to help Black people, he's targeted right then. He's definitely targeted. They'll put you in jail. They'll take away your rights because you're White and you got no right working with Black folk or giving them any kind of encouragement whatsoever. So this is what we have to go through. And then another thing about Whites, and when I say Whites, I'm not talking about all White people. I'm talking about those people with the slave mentality. They are afraid of Blacks. 7 07:41.000 --> 09:29.000 They are afraid that the Spaniards, the Blacks, the people from all over the world who are not Aryans, will get together because they're in the minority now. People of color are in the majority. And I don't know, I don't believe very much what the statistics say, but I believe in this country now Colored people are in the majority. They say that the Mexicans and people of Spanish descent will soon be overpowered. They would be more in this country than the Blacks are. But I don't mind telling White people, I know whom I am. I don't need to wear any kind of mark or any kind of indication that I am an African-American. But you don't know who you are. 10,000 Black people went into the White race from 1868 to 1910, and they don't know whom they are. But I know whom I am, and I'm very proud. I'm very, very proud that I have what they want and that's color. 8 09:29.000 --> 09:41.000 Well, I wanted to ask you about, you touched on it a little bit about being in Selma during the '30s. How was the spirit among Blacks in Selma during that time? 9 09:41.000 --> 11:06.000 Fear. The same thing that happened in Germany. They were afraid. They were brainwashed. They thought they had to do everything a White man told them to do. They wouldn't try to break any of the traditions, and this was what the White man wanted, and he kept them like that. They couldn't understand how I would come into a place and never give my name. No, they never knew what my name was until after 1965. They would call me Platts. Or when I married, they called me Boynton, but they never knew my name. Because I—well, and my husband, I don't know whether any of them knew his name because he would always say S.W. Boynton. He would never give them his name. And he was targeted. But he had told me and told other people, "Well, I don't mind dying. I'd rather die for something than die for nothing." And he did. He died for something. 10 11:06.000 --> 11:09.000 What about the Black business owners? 11 11:09.000 --> 12:19.000 Black businesses? Business and professional Black people would run and get under the bed. They were just that afraid. However, when Dr. King came in, and you see, he came in January the 2nd in '65, and we got the right to vote in '65. When Dr. King came in, the news media came in also. You had sometimes as many people of the news media as you had a congregation. Then they were there. The preachers were not there until the news media came in and they followed Dr. King. And it was most disgusting, most disgusting when I would ask the ministers to open their churches and they wouldn't do it. There was one minister, Reverend Hunter, who opened his church back there and my husband was living. And he died. They don't give him any credit at all. 12 12:19.000 --> 12:21.000 What church was that? 13 12:21.000 --> 13:20.000 That was the AME Zion Church. I don't know. The first name is AME Zion. I think that was the only one we had. Then the next church was when my husband died. No, before then. First Baptist, that was my church, and the only way they opened it is because I told my pastor, "If you don't let us go into this church, I'm going to tell the members not to pay your salary." And he opened the church. Then we had so many, we had older people who were marching and demonstrating. We had the younger folk and the younger people stayed at the First Baptist Church and the older ones went to Brown Chapel AME Church. So both of those churches will be in the historic walk that they're planning on having. 14 13:20.000 --> 13:34.000 Okay. You said your parents were politically conscious at the time. How do you remember that? 15 13:34.000 --> 14:19.000 In 1921, when women were given the right to vote, my mother would take her horse and buggy and will go from house to house and take those people down to the registration office or take them to the polls. Then that was in Savannah, Georgia. Then when they left and went to Philadelphia, she became the first secretary of the first Chamber of Black Negro Chamber of Commerce. She was in the real estate business. Both of them were, but my father died. And she was very political. Very political. 16 14:19.000 --> 14:27.000 What did she tell you? Did you ever talk about it, I mean in the house, about politics? 17 14:27.000 --> 14:30.000 No. See, I left when I was 15, nearly 16 years old. Went to school. 18 14:30.000 --> 14:31.000 Wow. 19 14:31.000 --> 14:52.000 Well, my son finished high school at 14. He finished law school, he had his degree at 18 and finished. He had his law degree at age 21. He's now down in Selma, Alabama. 20 14:52.000 --> 14:59.000 And when you say when you graduated at 16, you went to Tuskegee? 21 14:59.000 --> 15:00.000 Mm-hmm. 22 15:00.000 --> 15:03.000 How was that back then? 23 15:03.000 --> 15:05.000 How was that? How was that? 24 15:05.000 --> 15:07.000 I mean, at the age of 16, going to Tuskegee, coming to a new place? 25 15:07.000 --> 15:07.000 Oh. 26 15:07.000 --> 15:13.000 At such a young age. 27 15:13.000 --> 16:12.000 Well, I wanted to go to Tuskegee. They didn't want me, my family didn't want me to go to Tuskegee. They just felt that, well, my mother said, "Well, I understand that women have work in the field." I said, "Well, do they have any women there?" Yes, because they had a place known as Little Women had a—that was Tandem Hall known as Little Women's Hall. I said, "Well, if the rest of them can do it, I can do it too." And yet, I had never had any association whatsoever with the farm, with the rural district. But if others could do it, I could do it too. And I just had it in me to follow in the footsteps of my mother because she was my role model. And my granddaughter tells me that I'm her role model. 28 16:12.000 --> 16:28.000 Well, when you got to Tuskegee, do you remember the place itself, how it looked then? 29 16:28.000 --> 16:28.000 Huh? 30 16:28.000 --> 16:29.000 As opposed to now? 31 16:29.000 --> 17:27.000 That makes a difference just here within the last 10 years. It has made some improvement. Yes, it had all of the buildings, all the buildings that they have now. I stayed in James Hall, Huntington Hall and White Hall. And the dining room was there as it is now. The academic building that burned here, not about two years ago, was there. And when I came, I was away. I don't know where I was. And when I came back and they told me that the academic building had burned, it was just like saying, do you know your best friend is dead? Because in those days, the whole of Tuskegee was like a family. And they had 3,000 some odd students. They had about as many as they have now. 32 17:27.000 --> 17:59.000 They have a little more now. But it was just like a family. And you just loved Tuskegee. You loved everybody. And if you went somewhere and you found somebody who said, "Well, I graduated from Tuskegee." There was a closeness there. Quite a closeness. But you just felt as well, I found a cousin, I found a family, a member of the family. I don't know how it is now. 33 17:59.000 --> 18:05.000 Did you get a chance to know Dr. Carver? 34 18:05.000 --> 18:54.000 I guess that's another story. Dr. Carver was a visiting professor. See, I majored in home economics. That was a part of the agricultural department. My husband was one of his students. When we married—well, Dr. Carver, that's one thing about that house. I was telling somebody that I thought I would break the house up where I lived. But what they wanted to be is one of the historic settings. Dr. Carver spent the night in this house. Mrs. Mary Bethune spent a night. 35 18:54.000 --> 20:14.000 Just about every outstanding African-American who came to Selma, Alabama stayed at that house. And they stayed there because Black people were afraid. They were afraid of us. They were afraid of anybody who associated with us. And Dr. Carver was my son's godfather. And I think, if I'm not mistaken, they have in that book, one of the letters, or at least the check when he was born, Dr. Carver sent him $5. When he was one year old, he sent him $1. When he was two years old, he sent him $2. When he was three years old, before he was four years old, Dr. Carver passed. I think. I'm not sure that his picture is in that book. You see me sitting up here thin and I know I have that. I got the air conditioner turned below. 36 20:14.000 --> 21:12.000 It wasn't the only Tuskegee. Tuskegee was not the only school that was strict. That was the order of the day for all schools. I understand the White schools, the Black schools, all of them protected the students, particularly the female students. We were, I considered it when we were here and people would ask even after I finished and I'd be talking perhaps to some of the other students or graduates and particularly the men, and they would say, "Well, do you remember out in Greenwood?" 37 21:12.000 --> 21:56.000 And Greenwood was outside of the campus. "Do you remember such and such a thing?" I said, "Don't ask me about that. Because when we were in school, we were in jail." You could not go off of the campus unless you were chaperoned. And very seldom there would be a reason to go off of the campus. During those days, the agricultural department would furnish perhaps just about all of the vegetables, the fruit, the dairy products. Your parents would send you boxes of food. 38 21:56.000 --> 23:02.000 We had the commissary that was right on the campus. And that's now the Home Economics Building. That was a school. That was the store. And during our senior year, we went to what was known as the Practice Cottage. For 10 weeks we were sent to the Practice Cottage. There is where you just practiced what you were going to be doing on the outside when you graduated. We had, there were 10 of us that went down at one time. We had two of us would do the cleaning, two of us would do the cooking, two would do the planning, the meal planning. Two would take care of the baby. And we just did everything that we would have to do on the outside. 39 23:02.000 --> 24:18.000 And we were kept busy. I mean, you just didn't know what was happening out there. That is outside of the campus. And I imagine being sheltered as I was all of my life, there was nothing on the outside that I would be interested in. Maybe others. Maybe there were some who weren't sheltered. Because even when we were home, I think for instance, the kids across the street, on Saturday they would go to the movies. We didn't want to go because the kids in the community would come to us. And there is where we would just have a good time. We would enjoy each other. And I felt the same way when I came to Tuskegee, because the classes, we had entertainments on the campus. You could go to the entertainments. You would go to the dining room and there your boyfriend, what was an known as taking it out, he would come to see you on Friday and Saturdays and you'd sit at the table and you'd talk. 40 24:18.000 --> 25:22.000 And usually whoever was sitting at the end of the table would move over and some other place and then let your boyfriend sit there. That was enough for me. The girls, naturally, this is another day. And people weren't as forward and as sexually awakened. I don't guess they were. I know I wasn't. And there are so much to keep you busy. Like my mother used to say before we went away, before I went away, never let a guy take you off from the rest of the folk. Always be in a group. And when you are in a group, naturally there's something that is going to be said or maybe you just wouldn't have time to concentrate on the guy. You'd have other things to talk about. So when I went to school, I just carried that on. 41 25:22.000 --> 25:30.000 Did you ever hear about any incidents in the community that got back to the campus about in terms of Blacks and Whites and having confrontations? 42 25:30.000 --> 26:55.000 No, I don't think so. I heard, this was before I got here. I heard, in fact, when I came to school, the Veterans Hospital was out there. Now, the Medical Center. I heard that Dr. Robert R. Moton had planned and was instrumental in laying the plans in getting the government hospital built. Before then, of the wars and Black people had fought in every war that we had in this country. People who fought in the wars, in the insurrection, Spanish American War, Civil War, World War I, and other little scrimmages they had, Black people fought in it. When they came back home, if they didn't have a relative, it was just too bad. Federal government would do nothing. And you had soldiers that were dying on the streets, I understand, if they didn't have somebody who would take them in. 43 26:55.000 --> 28:13.000 And it was only then after World War—I guess in 1924. After World War I was when the Veterans Hospital was built. Even World War I people had nowhere to go in the south. In the north, I imagine they went to whatever veterans Hospital they had. But when this beautiful hospital was built. And Dr. Moton had worked it so that they were going to staff it with all Blacks. That the Whites did not want that hospital to be staffed with Blacks. That the system wanted White administrators, White doctors, White nurses, and then Black nurses aides to work with the White nurses. And if there were a patient that needed the bed changed, she would call the Black nurse, change that bed where that Black man is. 44 28:13.000 --> 29:21.000 Then when Dr. Moton said, "No, it's going to be staffed with Blacks." That the Ku Klux Klan decided they were going to march on the campus. Now, whether they burned a cross, I don't know because I was not here. But they decided that they were going to march on the campus and they were just going to torture Dr. Moton. And they had the ROTC then. As I understand that ROTC and the other guys who were not members of the ROTC decided they were going to protect the campus so nothing happened. So they just figured that that was too much for African-Americans. Beautiful building like that, but no White person to be boss. That was a mentality of the Whites. 45 29:21.000 --> 30:00.000 Other than that, I didn't know anything about altercations or any trouble that they had. First thing I knew nothing about it at home. The only time I remember that we came in contact with Whites was we had a couple of White people to move in our community and the people signed the petition and got them out. I didn't know why then. But later on I heard that they were trash, White trash who came in the community and they got those White people out. 46 30:00.000 --> 31:08.000 Again, I remember two incidents that occurred when I was small. One was being on the street car. They told my mother, I was with my mother, told her to get back. And she said she wasn't going to get anywhere. Well, she got off of the streetcar. She got angry and she got off of the streetcar. I know. And I got off with her. I remember another case that we had wood, a wood stove and they put gas in the community. And my mother went down to get a gas stove and they didn't call you by your first name. That's the reason why I never used my first name because she didn't use hers. And she saw the stove and it was pretty, I thought it was so pretty. It was blue and white. I said, "Mama, get that one. Get that one." 47 31:08.000 --> 32:05.000 So she negotiated with a guy. And all the time he was saying, "Well, customer," that's what they call them, customers and madam. "Customer, you would like the stove. Customer, this stove. Thus and so, and thus and so." So as soon as she gave him a check, he said—my mother's name was Anna. He said, "Well, Annie, I'm going to send that stove right out." Mother said, 'Let me see that check. I think I must have left something off." He gave my mother the check. "Nobody ever calls me by my first name. Nobody. I am going to report you and I'm going to get your job." And she did. And he lost his job. That was at Haverty Furniture Company. He lost his job. She was just like that. 48 32:05.000 --> 32:07.000 Really? 49 32:07.000 --> 33:04.000 She was a ball of fire. Now, when they went to Philadelphia, and I heard this just the other day, I heard this from a retired attorney. And she was saying that your mother, your mother was something. She didn't take anything off of anybody. I know that being in the real estate business, it grew when my father died. I guess more people came from the south and it's just her business just grew. And she had a lot of welfare. They didn't call them welfare then. I don't know what they called them. But anyway, I was down south and I was working in Alabama. And she had a lot of people who got their checks but wouldn't pay their rent. 50 33:04.000 --> 33:51.000 So there was one person she had to evict. When she evicted this person, I think they put a suit in against her. So she ran down and she says, "Listen." At that time she was in her 70s. "Listen, these people are having babies and you are encouraging them to have babies, and you expect me to take care of them. If you fool with me, I'll sell every one of these houses I have and sit on welfare just where I should be." They say, "Okay, Ms. Platts. Okay, okay." They let her alone. But they didn't take advantage of her, no. 51 33:51.000 --> 33:57.000 When did you first become aware that there was, for some reason, a difference because of your color? Did your mom explain to you? 52 33:57.000 --> 34:49.000 When I started working, I started working and I was teaching in Americus, Georgia. That was the same place, I mean the same year and a couple of months before I came to Alabama. Oh, I was young. I just didn't notice anything about Colored and Whites. You superior and I'm inferior. Because we used to fight the little White kids coming up. We had to pass by their school. We were going to a new school. And I thought we had this new school where my father was a contractor. I didn't think about segregation. 53 34:49.000 --> 35:50.000 I just figured my father helped to build that school and his children were going there. But we had to pass by an older school where there were Whites and we would fight like cats and dogs. Nobody ever did anything about it. You just fight. That's all. And I was in the first grade and they would take the younger ones and say, you going, and the bigger ones would stand behind the corner and then take our books like this. And if the Whites would push us off of the sidewalk, then the others would come in and fight for us. So I just thought that was just a system. But when I started teaching, I went to the bank and I was just standing up at the window, just standing. This great big old White fella, red and big at the window. 54 35:50.000 --> 36:49.000 And I was just standing up at the window like this. It was pretty good size. My mind was either in Philadelphia or somewhere else. This guy looked at me and he said, "Don't you see me standing here? Get on back." And I looked at him and I put my hands on my hips. I said, "Who do you think I am? And who do you think you are?" And why I said this, I don't know. I said, "I'm not one of them." Now, I don't know why I said that because I had not been—it was the first check that I got. "And I'm not one of them." What did that mean? To this day, I don't know why I said it. But when I said that he drew his hand back, balled his fist up, and I just looked at him and he dropped his hand and went on about his business. 55 36:49.000 --> 37:51.000 Now, God was in the plan, and I went to the window and I transacted whatever business it was. And after that I began to wonder what in the world was that? What was wrong with that man? And when I got on the outside, I saw the president of the school. This was a Baptist school where I was teaching. And I told him about it. And he said, "Dears." He used to call everybody dear. "Dears, what did you do that for? You know that man could have killed you and going on the campus and lynched all of us." This was in Americus, Georgia. I said, "Hmm, he better not put his hands on me." And I went on back to the campus and I started thinking, because I didn't read anything about people having to bow down, and yes, sir, boss, and no, sir, boss, and all of that. I knew nothing about that kind of stuff. 56 37:51.000 --> 38:59.000 And I started thinking, what kind of folk are this? He better not put his hands on me. But I learned from then and telling the others on the campus, the other teachers about it, they began to tell me about lynchings and whatnot. But I didn't know anything about it. As I said, we were sheltered. And when I came to Tuskegee, you couldn't get off of the campus. You couldn't go anywhere you wanted to go. That's all right with me. I've got enough to entertain me right in the dormitory. But the students were really, the women particularly were very, very sheltered here on the campus. Oh, they had some of them that sneak out. And I didn't know it until I finished. And some of them told me about it. I know during our, just before graduation, we had a girl who was pregnant. That it was time to grad—just a few days before graduation. They shipped her off, sent her home. 57 38:59.000 --> 39:08.000 Well, if you did go off campus, was there a Black section in Tuskegee, like businesses that you could go? 58 39:08.000 --> 39:10.000 They would take us downtown to the stores. 59 39:10.000 --> 39:10.000 The downtown, the segregated ones? 60 39:10.000 --> 39:10.000 Yes, I'm sure it was. I'm sure it was. Didn't pay any attention to it. 61 39:10.000 --> 39:27.000 But there was no Black business? People that owned? [indistinct 00:39:26]. 62 39:27.000 --> 39:35.000 I don't think so. I think all of it—see, everything was Black in the community. You had the stores, like the stores right off the campus now. 63 39:35.000 --> 39:36.000 Okay. 64 39:36.000 --> 40:12.000 You could get anything you wanted. You had to the drug store. You didn't have to eat off of the campus. You had the grocery store on the campus and off the campus. Most of the kids, I'm sure was like I was. And that is their parents supplied them as whatever they needed. Clothing, with money. And they didn't need that much money, things like that. But I enjoyed being sheltered because I was used to being sheltered. 65 40:12.000 --> 40:21.000 Well, did your mom ever talk to you about, I mean, did you ever talk to your mom about your experience? 66 40:21.000 --> 40:23.000 Experience here? 67 40:23.000 --> 40:28.000 I mean, yeah, having that experience when you went to teach too and going to the bank? 68 40:28.000 --> 41:46.000 No, I don't think I ever talked to her about that. No. No, I never did tell her. But one thing about it, she always told me, now I'm the only one in the south. All of the rest, everybody's in the north. And here I am down here in Alabama, when nobody had ever lived in Alabama. In '36, I think it was '36 in North Alabama, there were some Black boys. At that time, Black men or boys would—we call them hobos. They would catch the train, in the car boxes or box cars. And they would sometimes, I understand a lot of them say they would ride for the fun of it. They'd have money in their pockets, but instead of paying their fair, they'd just go and catch a train. 69 41:46.000 --> 42:35.000 What do you call those people? And so I said, we call them hobos. But I think there was another name. So these nine boys got in these box cars. And they found some women, some White women, and they were arrested and put in jail. Well, it got back home to my mother. My mother said, "Leave that Godforsaken place. People will lynch you. Come on back up here." Well, I never liked Philadelphia. When they moved, I didn't like it. "You come on up here where your family is. Don't you stay down there." 70 42:35.000 --> 44:04.000 But of course, that didn't mean a thing to me because I was grown and it was time for me to think about myself. So then she said, "You know what? I keep you on the altar in front of God. Every day I pray for you. I pray that nothing will ever happen." And I'm sure she did because I would go after the crackers. Oh, I'd boiled them out. And I never had any repercussion. So I think her keeping me in front of God all the time had a whole lot to do with it. And I told my son that. And my granddaughter, who's now in college. I feel as though if you don't have a religious background or if you don't have somebody who believes that you don't have to be killed to be anything happening to you. If you have somebody who believes, in fact, every person themselves should believe in God. But I have had no trouble whatsoever. 71 44:04.000 --> 44:04.000 What did you remember about the nine? 72 44:04.000 --> 44:06.000 Hm? 73 44:06.000 --> 44:12.000 What do you remember about the case or about this [indistinct 00:44:10]? 74 44:12.000 --> 44:18.000 Some of them died in prison. I believe they stayed there 15 or 20 years. 75 44:18.000 --> 44:23.000 Did people talk about it in Selma? 76 44:23.000 --> 44:48.000 I'm sure they did. My husband and I would discuss it. But I'm sure. I don't know whether they did or not. They might have been afraid to do it. They might be afraid to open their minds. Because they believe that White folk were right. They might have said they didn't have any right on that train. They know that's White folks place. I don't know. I don't know. 77 44:48.000 --> 44:58.000 Did you think at the time that they were going to be lynched or convicted? 78 44:58.000 --> 45:37.000 Oh, I guess so. Because you see when in working down in Selma, I ran into all kinds of things. People had all kinds of weird tales about what happened. Lots of people believed in us and they would come to the office and talk about how badly they were treated. So I would not have been surprised regardless of what happened. For instance, when I first went to Selma, they had a guy who was a sheriff. 79 45:37.000 --> 46:17.000 And every time he'd kill a Black person, he would put a notch in his gun. But nothing was done about it. And see, our office was right across from the City Hall and the jail was on the top floor of the City Hall. Often we would hear people screaming and hollering where they beat them half to death. And I know whenever anything would happen, they'd come right on across and tell us about it. So there were lots and lots of atrocities. That's the reason they tried to get rid of us, because-