Nathaniel Bradshaw White Sr.: That was quite a trip. I'll get it somewhere. Well, if you need any one of those— Paul Ortiz: [indistinct 00:00:31] on a particular line? Nathaniel Bradshaw White Sr.: No. Paul Ortiz: Oh. Nathaniel Bradshaw White Sr.: You all right. Any one of these if you see that you might want a copy of, I think I got extra copies. Paul Ortiz: Oh, really? Nathaniel Bradshaw White Sr.: Yeah. Paul Ortiz: I'd love to have these copies if it would be— Nathaniel Bradshaw White Sr.: Oh yeah, all of those are different. Paul Ortiz: This is 35th anniversary. This is the 40th, and this is the— Nathaniel Bradshaw White Sr.: Yeah, okay. Yeah, that I think I got plenty of—If you need a extra, oh your whatever y'all need. Shavonna Maxwell: We just need one. Nathaniel Bradshaw White Sr.: Okay. All right. Yeah. Okay. Paul Ortiz: That's terrific. Mr. White, going back to the business district, I just had a couple real basic questions. Where would you go to get your hair cut in the '40s? Nathaniel Bradshaw White Sr.: Oh, we got plenty places and plenty barbershops. Yeah. In fact, in the South, you had a few Black barbershops for White people, so we cut our hair and others' hair too. And they weren't mixed though, the White barbers didn't cut Black people's hair. I think later on they did, but there were Black barber shops that cut White people's hair. And they were generally downtown the ones that did that, but in our neighborhood we had plenty barbershops. Paul Ortiz: Would you patronize one in particular? Nathaniel Bradshaw White Sr.: Yes. Just pick out one that—In fact, you have your own barber, you know then that you'd probably stick with that barbershop. Paul Ortiz: Who was your barber? Nathaniel Bradshaw White Sr.: My barber was a fellow named Sterling Hope and he's still cutting hair. Yeah. So he got too slow for me, I got another one that a little faster. (laughs) Nathaniel Bradshaw White Sr.: In fact, my brother was the one that discovered this guy down the street that was cheap and fast and good. (laughs) Paul Ortiz: Nice. Does Mr. Hope still talk to you? Nathaniel Bradshaw White Sr.: Oh, oh yeah. In fact, it's interesting thing about him, he was in Raleigh, I think he was in barbers school, and then when I moved here he was here. And so I just stayed with him a long time, so that's the way it goes. Paul Ortiz: How about eating establishments? [indistinct 00:03:59]. Nathaniel Bradshaw White Sr.: Yeah, different restaurants and all. Yeah. Paul Ortiz: Where would you eat? Nathaniel Bradshaw White Sr.: Now, The Green Candle, which is still operating, was operating back then, I used to go eat with them. And then of course when I got married I didn't eat out as often as I did before when I was single. And so that's the way it is. Yeah, plenty of services, beauty shops. Fact, we mentioned earlier beauty schools, so the women were pretty well covered. And the men too, for that matter. Paul Ortiz: Mr. White, I've heard other African-American businessmen talk about the important roles that women, particularly their wives, would play in their businesses. Did you see that? Did your wife have a role in your— Nathaniel Bradshaw White Sr.: Oh, yeah. She worked at some point, but my wife was a nurse and most of the time she was taking care of the children when they were small. And then when the children got older, she worked at nursing. And so that was more or less took care of that. And then at one point we had, just like we didn't have a large folding machine, we did a lot of folding by hand, then she helped with that, too. But when we got the equipment to—Folding by machine is much faster than folding by hand, we had less of that type of work to do. Paul Ortiz: Would your other partners, would their wives also help in the business? Nathaniel Bradshaw White Sr.: Some of them did help some, but not too many because some of them had jobs. And in fact, one of the partners married the secretary, so that took care of that, she was already there. (laughs) But yeah. Paul Ortiz: Wow. Shavonna? Shavonna Maxwell: Actually, I did. I was just very curious about the community from all the men who went to Hampton Institute, and you talked about it a little bit earlier, but how was that comradery between you all? And you stated that your son was at first going to go to Hampton himself. Were there a lot of students from this area because of you all's influence that went to Hampton as well? Nathaniel Bradshaw White Sr.: My son was what? Shavonna Maxwell: I was just stating that earlier you said your son was— Nathaniel Bradshaw White Sr.: My son was—Oh, yeah. Shavonna Maxwell: And I was just wondering if the young men in your Scout troops, a lot of them were encouraged to go on and they also went to Hampton and that sort of thing. Nathaniel Bradshaw White Sr.: Right, right. Well, Hampton seems to be that type of school. We had professors and then we had a minister that Sunday school and this kind of thing. We had talk about what you do when you go into a town, for example. And we were taught that—That's like when I went to Raleigh and we started looking for friends, that's the first group you associate with, and so that's camaraderie with the Hampton group trying to continue. And then I found it very interesting when I went to Raleigh, how dealers, these earlier graduates before we went to Hampton, how they really cared for Hampton and it was like they made good friends. Nathaniel Bradshaw White Sr.: And when I came to Durham, the same way. I mentioned Mr. Henderson, Mr. Henderson, he finished the year before, he finished at '32 and I went to Hampton at 33. But when we came here, we were immediate friends and we got together in the business organization, and then there's the other Hamptonians there. So we didn't have frats when I was at Hampton, but Hampton alumni was just as good as having a fraternity. And we were encouraged to do that, that's what I said, that you start talking to you about getting adjusted when you get in a new place. And so we just followed through on that. And even today some of our best friends are Hampton friends. Shavonna Maxwell: Anything. Nathaniel Bradshaw White Sr.: All right. Shavonna Maxwell: Do you have any— Paul Ortiz: Well, could go on and listen, actually, listen to you talk for quite a while, but I don't want to ruin our relationship by taking your entire day. Nathaniel Bradshaw White Sr.: Oh yeah. Well— Paul Ortiz: Oh, I know, actually, one more question is actually related. This summer we're actually doing some oral history work in Norfolk. Nathaniel Bradshaw White Sr.: In Norfolk? Paul Ortiz: Yes, sir. Nathaniel Bradshaw White Sr.: Is that right? Paul Ortiz: We're going to be in Norfolk from the second half of July through August, I think, or something. Nathaniel Bradshaw White Sr.: Is that right? Paul Ortiz: So I was wondering if you knew of some people that we should be getting in contact with in Norfolk to do interviews. Nathaniel Bradshaw White Sr.: Mm-hmm. Well— Paul Ortiz: Or maybe you could think about it, I could get back with you or— Nathaniel Bradshaw White Sr.: Probably so. I'm a little bit dim on Norfolk right now, but I'd like for you to look this church up. Paul Ortiz: Okay, that's Mount Olive Baptist Church. Nathaniel Bradshaw White Sr.: Yeah, you'll have a copy. If you don't have one—You have a copy of this? If you don't— Paul Ortiz: Yeah, that's one that you gave. Nathaniel Bradshaw White Sr.: Yeah, if you don't have one, you can take another one if you need it. I would be interested personally in the results of your interview— Paul Ortiz: If we can interview people from Mount Olive? Nathaniel Bradshaw White Sr.: Yeah, yeah. I think that would be one connecting link. So having met me as a graduate of this or whatnot, and I consider that one of the outstanding—Being a member of this church and a member of this troop, a very valuable asset in my life, and what I did in Scouting definitely comes from the fact that my being a Scout in this troop and my desire to give back what they had done for me. See, as I mentioned earlier, I grew up with a single parent, my father with four boys, and the church had definitely had very good influence on my life. And since you going to be there, you can check on me there, or you can let them know that I appreciate it and I tried to do what I could. Nathaniel Bradshaw White Sr.: And you'll have some of my troop there, and I regret that I haven't been able to go back and visit as much. And then what has happened, I used to travel all the time and I used to go home once in a while, but I didn't know I was going to get up here. I am 80 now, I'll be 81 in September, and you don't have the desire to jump out on that road as much as you did then. But I would certainly, since you are going to Norfolk, suggest to you that since we have talked and you see for yourself what I have tried to do and I would like for them to know that, too. Paul Ortiz: Okay. Nathaniel Bradshaw White Sr.: So I give you an assignment, both of you. Both of you. Paul Ortiz: Actually, if we could use, with your permission, use your name as a reference. Nathaniel Bradshaw White Sr.: Oh, yes. Yeah. Paul Ortiz: And say do you know if—Is Troop 72 still existing, or would it be a different— Nathaniel Bradshaw White Sr.: Frankly, I don't really know. I doubt it, I doubt it. I hope that they in existence, that would be a good connecting link if they are. It's good to find out what the situation is anyhow, and I'll be interested in knowing how it comes out. Yeah, I really will. And I say if I can help you in any way, I'll be glad to do the—But I don't know. I don't have any—Let's see, I have one young lady up there that might, instead, so you going to have to go cold turkey that I could call you and give you her name and telephone. And you're going to be there when? Paul Ortiz: Let me see. We're going to be there in mid-July. Yeah, that's right, because we were until August 16th and there— Nathaniel Bradshaw White Sr.: Where will you be? Do you know? Paul Ortiz: No, and actually we have two different teams, and I'm going to be on the team that's going to Memphis and the other team that's actually going to Norfolk is composed of three other people. Nathaniel Bradshaw White Sr.: So you won't personally won't be going— Paul Ortiz: So I won't be there, but I'll brief people on this and I'll actually make a copy of the article and talk to them. Nathaniel Bradshaw White Sr.: Well, I can give you an extra copy if I have it. So rather than have to make a copy, you can just give them a copy. Paul Ortiz: Okay. Nathaniel Bradshaw White Sr.: And I'm going to give you this person's name and I think that she might be able to facilitate a connection without you having to fish for it yourself, see. Paul Ortiz: That would really be helpful. Nathaniel Bradshaw White Sr.: Yeah, I think I'm going to give you her name and telephone number and all. Paul Ortiz: Okay. Nathaniel Bradshaw White Sr.: So that she might get on the telephone and call, say, "You go see so-and-so," or something like that. I gonna call her too, I call her too, see. That keep you from having to go through this misery of finally find out who to talk to and this kind of thing. Paul Ortiz: Right, that would be really helpful. Let me give you my office number too. That's my home number, I'll give you my voice—I have this new voicemail thing just in case. Nathaniel Bradshaw White Sr.: Yeah, okay. Yeah, I would appreciate that because I'm interested in that, and I know they would be interested in knowing how I have been benefited by this experience and all. And so all of my Scouting experience comes from this church. Paul Ortiz: Do you know anybody that might be still connected at some level to the Journal and Guide? Nathaniel Bradshaw White Sr.: Oh, you know, they have sold that paper and it's have a different ownership, so I don't know those persons there now, but that was my first job selling newspapers and all. I think some religious group person, either some minister or something. I don't know how many times it's been sold, but I know the original owners are not there. In fact, that had an influence on me studying printing, based on my connection. Paul Ortiz: Did you know, and I wish I could remember, did you talk about P.B Young? Nathaniel Bradshaw White Sr.: Yeah. That was the editor, and his brother H.C. Young, he was the actual printer. He was in charge of the printing of the newspaper and he tried to suggest to me that I would—At that time Hampton had the Academy High School, really. And he wanted me to leave Booker T. and go to Hampton, but I don't know if anybody with their head on right would leave Booker T. and go to Hampton when they—You want to finish Booker T. That was one of the finest schools, I thought. It must have been, I don't know whether it was just me going to Booker T., but I think it was one of the finest schools in the south. It's still Booker T., I believe, Booker T. Washington High School. And it was really great, we had great teachers and everything. So even if that fella told me that I could go to Hampton right then, I said, "Not until I graduate." Paul Ortiz: Does Booker T. have an alumni organization? Nathaniel Bradshaw White Sr.: Yeah. But our class had a meeting, I try to get them—Because this town is really have fine alumni and almost all the classes have a reunion, and I tried to copy from this town and I went there and after our 25th reunion, I tried to get somebody to call us together. We finally met at the 48 and 50, but that's the last time we met. Paul Ortiz: In 1948? Nathaniel Bradshaw White Sr.: Well, it was the 48th reunion from '32, whatever that add is, and then they met two years later for the 50. That was the last of it. I did the printing for the reunion, yeah. So I don't think they have the same drive this city has. Most of the classes meet—Now I don't know, that might change when they go to the new school, Hillside School, down the street down there. Paul Ortiz: Do you know people locally from Norfolk that we might get in touch with that are active with the alumni? Nathaniel Bradshaw White Sr.: I did know. Let's see, I'll try to do that along with this other person that I thought, yeah. Paul Ortiz: Sure appreciate it. Nathaniel Bradshaw White Sr.: My close friend has passed, I know that, but I'll try to see what I can do. So what will you be doing in Norfolk? Similar to what you're doing here?