WEBVTT 1 00:01.000 --> 00:06.000 Where you grew up? 2 00:06.000 --> 00:32.000 Let's see. The neighborhood was between South Tryon Street, Ban Street, College Street and East Hill Street. And it was between the Dilworth area, and across Tryon Street was the Third Ward area. 3 00:32.000 --> 00:34.000 That's what it was called? The Third Ward? 4 00:34.000 --> 01:00.000 No, it wasn't. We were in between those areas. We were between Third Ward, Dilworth and— Well, it was a few blocks away from Brooklyn area, which would've been on two or three blocks down on Ban Street. So we were in a section that where we were not directly in either of the districts where we were. 5 01:00.000 --> 01:03.000 Okay. Was your little area segregated? 6 01:03.000 --> 01:18.000 Well, it was a segregated area. And when I said segregated, it was a White area. The home that we were in was surrounded by the streets that I just said and we were in a White area. 7 01:18.000 --> 01:21.000 Okay. As a child, did you play with White children? 8 01:21.000 --> 01:23.000 Yes, we did. 9 01:23.000 --> 01:24.000 What was that experience? 10 01:24.000 --> 02:02.000 It was very nice. Very nice experience because at the time that we were in the neighborhood, the family that my mother worked for, the other servants were caretakers of the children. And on the Thursdays and the Sundays or whatever, mostly on Thursdays, the day off, they would come into our area as they call it, Alice Children's area and Maze and all. We would have just fun, picnics and everything. 11 02:02.000 --> 02:05.000 What kind of things did you do? 12 02:05.000 --> 02:42.000 Well, we played ball, softball. And this little thing that we did, we played— I need her to help me with this. We had the ball teams, we played tennis, we had the little miniature, little golf things in the yard that we did. We had a little tennis nets. We played just about anything. We played marbles, of course. I played. That was interesting. And volleyball. Just the games that were popular at the time, were the ones that we played. 13 02:42.000 --> 03:17.000 And we were introduced a good little bit of little, offhand I can't say, a interesting game, tag. And right now off the bat, I can't mention some of the games. They were games that you played just about every day. Mostly summer times. The volleyball and the tag and the— what you call that thing? That little thing where they throw that ball up? What you call that honey? [indistinct 00:03:14] Excuse me, I'm sorry, but I can't think. We played— 14 03:17.000 --> 03:18.000 It's okay. I can't either. 15 03:18.000 --> 03:26.000 That's why I wish she was here for some of the older games. And it was interesting how you throw the little things, throw the ball up and catch the ball. It'll come to be what it was. [indistinct 00:03:28]. 16 03:26.000 --> 03:30.000 Okay. All right. 17 03:30.000 --> 03:34.000 That was a fun thing that we did. 18 03:34.000 --> 03:36.000 Were they many other Black children in your neighborhood also? 19 03:36.000 --> 04:32.000 Now, there was not children, but mostly at the time that we were there. I was born 1921 in Charlotte, North Carolina. And the home was there when I was born. There were three older— I have a deceased sister that was older, two brothers, older. We were there in the neighborhood with the older servants that lived in the homes. Each home on College Street had a live in servant. And most of them were people that didn't really have that much of a family. My mother and father were what they called the adopted family. Most of the people catered to my mother and father. And when I really think about it now, is because of the marriage status. 20 04:32.000 --> 05:27.000 I remember a family that lived near the railroad, Mrs. and Mr. Springs, she helped at the Moorehead family. And the reason why I'm saying that, that's the reason that we were in that area because of those people. And Mr. Fred Springs was the yard person. Mrs. Springs would sit in with the children at times and whatever. My mother's friendship was most around her church people and the neighborhood servants. I'm trying to think right now offhand, I can't think of too many people offhand. Mrs. [indistinct 00:05:09] with her two children, Berdel, and just her daughter's name was— Well, I'm trying to say the servants' children were our family too. And the servants were— They adopted like family in with my mother and father. 21 05:27.000 --> 05:29.000 Did both your mother and father work for the same house? 22 05:29.000 --> 05:38.000 Family people. The Moorehead family of John Motley Moorehead senior. He would be. 23 05:38.000 --> 05:38.000 Famous family. 24 05:38.000 --> 06:08.000 They were very, very nice people. They gave us the security to— And even with my mother and father, they were church people. I have to give them credit for that. I can't give them credit, but I give my mother and father credit where they were people that taught us to be individuals, to be people. We never had to go through this Black and White issue. 25 06:08.000 --> 06:11.000 With Moorehead family? 26 06:11.000 --> 06:11.000 With the neighborhood. 27 06:11.000 --> 06:13.000 The neighborhood? Okay. 28 06:13.000 --> 06:50.000 And actually with that family. But it was a security that you had that you just went on and do what you had to do. You go to the stores, we went to school. Then the weekends is when we would have the gatherings. Now, they went to separate school and two or three separate things that, years ago I remember going to a park with my mother and some of the children and we were accepted, it was nothing. We ate hotdogs and things. But at the time that everything was segregated, I can't think offhand of anything that even the stores, the drug stores. 29 06:50.000 --> 06:51.000 Do you think that's because your family worked for the Moorehead family? 30 06:51.000 --> 07:08.000 You know what, I really, honestly, from my heart, I think it was because of my mother and father's character. I think I will not allow myself to give the Moorehead family, because I'd have to give it to my mother and my father. Their character. 31 07:08.000 --> 07:10.000 What type of characters did they have? 32 07:10.000 --> 08:00.000 There were just outgoing, hardworking, church going people. And my father, Clay Mans, his day off was Saturday. He would dress, he would go down Tryon Street. He would go on Tray Street to the arcade at the time, to get his hair cut, get his clothes out the cleaners from the little cleaning area on Trade Street, at the time what they called the arcade. He would have his suits altered at the little— There was a barbershop, beauty parlor, a cafe and this [indistinct 00:07:55], Lord I can't call his name. Mr. Dave Moore would do his alteration. 33 08:00.000 --> 08:00.000 Were they Black— 34 08:00.000 --> 08:20.000 And that was businesses. Uh—huh, Black owned businesses in this little arcade off of Trade Street. And I remember that so well. And I think that was a doctor there, a dentist upstairs in the arcade, right on Trade Street. And it almost seemed like to me that building stayed there until they did the thing. 35 08:20.000 --> 09:02.000 And that was his— But he would get on his dress and my mother did not allow us to say Sunday clothes. She didn't think that made sense because of the term. Sometimes you go to the store, whatever, you'd be well dressed and this or that. Neat clean, I've said. You look mighty nice, you got on some of your Sunday clothes. She refused us to live under those conditions. You wear, you look nice and present yourself presentable. But to sometimes be at [indistinct 00:08:55] having on Sunday clothes, she would tell us to just go on about our business. Always be neat and be clean. 36 09:02.000 --> 09:02.000 Be clean everyday— 37 09:02.000 --> 09:44.000 And if you were refer to it as Sunday clothes, speak up and just don't say this if not— And that they allowed us and they never let us be withdrawn because they knew more than we knew about things might would happen and things that would be said. But we were overcomers, I'm going to tell you the truth, I cannot think of any incident where I can honestly say coming up in that neighborhood from '21 born in 1921, I married in that neighborhood. Let's see, how old was I when I'm married? Got to think. 20. 38 09:44.000 --> 10:21.000 The same little area house is where, after I married, I think I was 23 years old. My son was there and my nephew and another nephew were brought up right in the same little house. From there, we moved there to Liberty Street and from Liberty Street to [indistinct 00:10:05] Street, which they were predominantly Black. And then eventually here. But my mother and father— I mean my mother got to live here, but my daddy died in January. He didn't make it in the little family home. 39 10:21.000 --> 10:27.000 I wanted to echo back and ask you about, did you work with your parents? 40 10:27.000 --> 10:54.000 No. No. I was more or less at home. In school. That was the utmost in their hard work and is what they would always say. We're working for you to go to school and do better. They didn't pursue us to be servants. They didn't say not to, but they didn't push you to do it. We were pushed to school. To go to school. 41 10:54.000 --> 10:58.000 How did your parents manage childcare while they were— 42 10:58.000 --> 11:45.000 Well, the thing about it, it was the way the family, the age group, because my oldest sister, she died in January last year, 81. In her death, she lived in Jacksonville. It was like the oldest one responsible for the other. And then another thing, excuse me, the times that when my mother went to work, the younger ones at home went to work with her. So I got to get that straight. Nobody was not like without home care. And the ones that were old enough to be at home, they were at home. I had a brother, when he finished high school, he went to Smith just for one year and he went to DC. 43 11:45.000 --> 12:43.000 The oldest brother died at 26. My sister, when she finished high school, she went to Monroe Winchester High School. After she finished high school, she went Winston—Salem College, excuse me. She had four years of college. And incidentally, the year that she died, she had put 50 years of teaching in Jacksonville, Florida. That's the nieces. I'll be going home with her when she come through here. She and I, my baby sister went to Smith one year and I had a brother. Each one of us had a chance. We finished high school and went into college. We went to, the two of us, we went to Barber Scotia for two years at [indistinct 00:12:30]. And that was a break there, because my sister that had been taking care of us and helping with the two years of Barber Scotia, she married, went to Seattle, Washington with her soldier husband. 44 12:43.000 --> 13:38.000 And then when she came back to Charlotte visiting, she let us know that Jacksonville, Florida be her home, [indistinct 00:12:52]. So she went to Jacksonville, Florida. Then I had another sister that went to New York when she finished high school. Seeing that they migrated. The older they got, they just wanted— This is where they were able and wanted to be on their own. There was no restriction where they couldn't venture out. And believe it or not, I was the home person. I just loved home. I was the home person. When I married, I stayed married. My husband was accepted into the family, into the home. I only have one child and I was the home person. And even though mama and daddy got [indistinct 00:13:30], I was not working. The type work I did, it was so surprisingly to most people. 45 13:38.000 --> 14:48.000 But when I finished high school, I wanted to be a home economics teacher. I didn't pursue that. When I went to Barber Scotia College, that was what I wanted so bad. I just loved cooking and whatever. I worked in the cafeteria as scholarship work. And I was just so into food. My two years at Barber Scotia, I was accepted at AMT and it's so strange what I did. I chose not to accept that because financial reasons, I knew it was time for me to have a job. So I went to the S&W Cafeteria downtown on Trade Street. Incidentally, this is most interesting. When I went to S&W Cafeteria to work, it was a Baptist convention in Charlotte, North Carolina segregation time. And the store was not open at the time to the two races. 46 14:48.000 --> 15:31.000 And I'm sure it had to be a boldness in me. And incidentally, the ad was in the paper and it just seemed to me that I wanted to do something worthwhile. I went up to be interviewed and I didn't let anybody know I was going. I just wanted to pursue this. Even the sign of people talking about, it wasn't enough room in Charlotte for all these people coming in the Baptist convention. And I went to the S&W, I was interviewed and I sat there knowing that it was an integrated place as well as other places. 47 15:31.000 --> 16:15.000 But that was one determination I had. And not to— They hired Black people. But what I'm saying, [indistinct 00:15:38] and I said this is a shame. A lot of people say, "It's a shame you can't go to the S&W eat." They'd be open on Sundays and this and that on Thursday or whatever, and you couldn't go to eat. I often think about, I was going in there to work, but I still wanted to just understand why. And I was willing to ask some questions, work with a beautiful group of people. The Cheryls, Mr. Cheryl and his son and his brother were the nicest people I ever met in my life. I was very open. 48 16:15.000 --> 16:17.000 Did you ask them why or did you ever? 49 16:17.000 --> 17:20.000 I was very open on the job. Now I'm going to show you how this came about. I was so open on the job that my managers and the people that I worked with, were people that they didn't say to me, but I learned later that I was a little outspoken. Well, it wasn't that I was just rudely outspoken, but I never did hold back. With the convention coming, the Baptist convention coming, the paper statement. So many preachers will being Charlotte and that they don't know where I'm going to be. So I'm not going to take it on myself in case something else would come up. But it seemed to me some kind of way, I was interviewed for the job. The opening that I would've had. I wanted to work in the salads. I always liked salads. They didn't have any opening for the salad. 50 17:20.000 --> 18:17.000 It was a lady that worked there. She lives over here now. She was in the salad department when I worked there. I hadn't had any experience in salads, but I was willing to learn the salad and all, because when I would go and see salad, I would just go crazy. So getting back to what I'm saying. S&W opened the cafeteria for the preachers the first year or the few months or whatever. They needed help now. They needed help. And I really liked the company when I realized how open they were to [indistinct 00:17:57] and people and whatever. But when they called me to work, they needed me because they had opened up, they had agreed to let the people come in. It seemed like they were about the first place that opened up downtown. It looked like Crest did it after S&W. I may be wrong there and I— 51 18:17.000 --> 18:17.000 You mean opened up to Black? 52 18:17.000 --> 18:17.000 Mm—hmm. 53 18:17.000 --> 18:20.000 Oh, okay. 54 18:20.000 --> 19:09.000 It was during the year when all everything, all the confusions and things. And it was an incident where it was a lot of things went on downtown during the segregation and during the Martha King situation. I should have that date in my head. And by me talking these things coming to me. Do you know that's when I went to the cafeteria, the S&W Cafeteria. I went there as a salad person and I worked up to the head salad person. From downtown, Charlottetown Mall and Park Road. But that was a work I liked. I loved the people and there were people similar to the people that my mother worked for. They were just good, decent people. The Cheryl family. 55 19:09.000 --> 19:11.000 Okay. I wanted to go back and ask you— 56 19:11.000 --> 19:39.000 I hope you got that. Meaning, instead I felt more comfortable into what I did even through the years I retired from the company than to go back into the college area. Because I could see a strain financially. That's why I didn't want to pursue the other two years because my dad had taken ill, incidentally that's when I stayed at home with my father instead of going back to school because my sister was not that. 57 19:39.000 --> 19:39.000 Okay, I'm going to go back and— 58 19:39.000 --> 19:41.000 Bless your little heart. Excuse me. 59 19:41.000 --> 19:44.000 Did you have any remembrances of your grandparents? 60 19:44.000 --> 20:24.000 Now, the most interesting thing about the grandparents, which would be my father's people, I never knew my mother's mother. Neither her father. Never got to meet them. It was something that she would always mention about. My father, when we were in our little surroundings, where I say we live, went to Reidsville, North Carolina, it was like someone called and said he needed to come and see about his mother and father. 61 20:24.000 --> 20:57.000 He went down to see about them. And for me to call the name of the place, it was in either Reidsville or Danville or Leaksville, in that little area. He went down to see about his parents, his mother and his father. And it seemed that someone said that you need to look after your father, quote unquote, because you're better able to do look after them. Which was all right with him. It was no problem. So he went down. And I understand that my grandmother and my grandfather were up in age. 62 20:57.000 --> 21:33.000 I remember them coming to Charlotte for a while. But they were in a little servitude home. For years he worked for the family people that looked after them and took care of them. And they came back to Charlotte. The strangest thing that my daddy never wanted to talk about, that was their little home. But for some reason, when my daddy being a humble man as he was, when he went back with the help of the people, they said, "Well, you should go back to see and see about things." 63 21:33.000 --> 22:11.000 He couldn't get anything together that was worthwhile as far as their home or who belonged to who. But it seemed like another generation of people came in over their [indistinct 00:21:47]. But for me to really tell you, I never heard my daddy speak anything of being in a slave living. There were a lot of sisters and a lot of brothers. Now, I met two of his sisters and two of his brother and the family root, which would be the man family's root. Most of those people in Philadelphia. 64 22:11.000 --> 22:13.000 They got [indistinct 00:22:13]? 65 22:13.000 --> 22:23.000 Uh—huh. His brothers, he had two sisters, Mary and Martha, and I think five brothers. But they were not close. 66 22:23.000 --> 22:28.000 So did you ever see your father's— 67 22:28.000 --> 22:46.000 Yeah, they came to stay with us. They were very quiet people. My grandmother, she was a pretty lady. She looked a lot like my mother. She was very quiet. My granddad was a picture of my dad. They were very quiet people. They didn't talk much. 68 22:46.000 --> 22:47.000 Did they ever play with— did you ever— 69 22:47.000 --> 23:34.000 No, we would talk with them. Sometimes it was, not too long ago. Let's see, my grandmother's name was Julia Ann. Grandfather's name was Clay. My dad, I believe was name after my granddad. But they were people that would not— we were chilled to not bother grandmother, granddad, I can picture the two of them sitting on the porch in rocking chair. I can picture speaking to them, but I don't remember ever being able to talk. But they were very uncomfortable. And I think about them sometime. I wished it had been where you could talk to them, but they were withdrawn. Both of them. 70 23:34.000 --> 23:37.000 They never talked about— Did they live during slavery [indistinct 00:23:36]? 71 23:37.000 --> 23:38.000 Yeah. 72 23:38.000 --> 23:39.000 They never talked? 73 23:39.000 --> 24:21.000 They never talked about anything. My granddaddy, one day got off the porch and walked down on [indistinct 00:23:47] Street at the time, and nobody knew granddaddy. But when he got to this store, on [indistinct 00:23:57] Street and incidentally that was a very nice name. His name was Mr. Black. Black's Grocery Store. And he was a White man, of course, in the neighborhood with the grocery store. He knew when Granddaddy walked down the street, went in the store, he knew that that was Clay's father. So he called Daddy and let him know that granddaddy was down there. 74 24:21.000 --> 25:09.000 But that is when granddaddy seemed to, with his conversation with Mr. Black, he opened up a whole lot of things, talking, [indistinct 00:24:29]. He was sitting with a cold cola, talking to Mr. Black about things that he didn't— It was so sad to me that they were not open people. They were not open. And we were taught to not bother them. Both of them died in the little home there, where they were ill, died of old age. After grandmother died, Granddaddy didn't live— I bet two. It's hard for me to say because I was in high school. He didn't live long because the night he died he kept calling her and said, "Julie Ann, I'm coming where you are." I was preteen then. 75 25:09.000 --> 25:14.000 Did your parents ever explain to you why they were so quiet? 76 25:14.000 --> 26:17.000 They seemed to my dad, and you know what? Do you know through high school and all, my father probably, if he went to school much, my father never was— He came from Reidsville, North Carolina by being a courteous person on the street coming down the street, this little hotel. It seemed that one of the Mooreheads at that time, being a traveling person, coming through on the way home, daddy coming down the street. He had two luggage, fumbling had two baggage. Daddy as a young man, maybe 19, reached down and probably asked, "Could I help you?" Whatever. He wasn't afraid to ask. He often told us a lot, Mr. John Moorehead did, I think the people. He thought that was so nice. He said, "I come through here every summer and where do you work?" It seemed to me that daddy really didn't have a job. 77 26:17.000 --> 27:10.000 Maybe so, maybe not. I can't think. And my dad didn't talk much either. Believe it or not, he was a very reserved, and my mother too. They just never did too much talking. And it seemed that Mr. Moorehead knew the man the hotel where he was staying and all. And this nice man that helped him with his luggage, naturally put [indistinct 00:26:41] whatever. He asked daddy what kind of work did he do or something, he suggested to the man. So since he was nice enough to pick up my luggage, to just help me out by walking, you were distant to people. But his manner, he said he would be nice to work in a hotel. Now this is what it was told to us. Daddy would tell things and how he got that job working, being recommended, worked there. Mr. Moorehead would come through. 78 27:10.000 --> 27:54.000 Mr. Moorehead said to him one time, he said, "Clay, I'm think about being married, but if I get married I would like for you to work for me." That's how they met by him helping him with the luggage. And it happened, I think mama was— They were married then. And seem to me daddy said to him, he said, "Clay, how you doing?" He said, "Are you ready?" He said, "No, because I got one child and I'm married man, and I have a child and we expecting another one." And he said, "Well don't worry about it." He said, "I'll look out for you." And that's when he built the little home there. It was a friendship between two human beings. And I just don't like anybody to say it but, well naturally he was White and daddy was Black. 79 27:54.000 --> 28:49.000 But there were two human beings that needed each other. He could have come back and got the luggage, the way I understood it. But my daddy helping with the luggage. And they just from the years, when my daddy died, he never referred to him as their servant, as the friend. When the name was in the paper, the obituary, a friend. And I always thought of that. And when he said it, the [indistinct 00:28:19] that we always considered Ella and Clay as our friends. And that's the way it was. The children were not prohibited from playing with us. There were times that cousins or whatever would have things clothes that we could use. And my mother was not too proud to not accept things. We were able to go downtown, which through my mom and daddy to get things that we had to be quiet about this and quiet about that. 80 28:49.000 --> 29:12.000 And then what we got [indistinct 00:28:51]. Mrs. Moorehead had already called in to let them have what they want. Go in, sit down, quiet, choose what fitted your feet with your clothing and then whoever waited on you, they knew what to do. And then you come out with your little bags and all quiet. 81 29:12.000 --> 29:16.000 They would— 82 29:16.000 --> 29:53.000 [indistinct 00:29:14]. Just had the bill for the children. Dad and my mother were very happy people. They were very happy people. And this home right here was built through— They were in three wheels. This home that they built in this— Let's see, '69, no I'm wrong, honey. '59, because daddy died in December. We would come out here and look at it. He would say, my husband was living there. He'd say, "Y'all can have it. I don't want it. I don't like way out there." But he was up in there. 83 29:53.000 --> 30:21.000 Daddy was 80 something, my momma was 90 something when she died too. She died here. They had money in trust funds. They went three Moorehead wheels, the old John Motley and the John Junior. And they worked for what they had and they were very proud church going people, I tell you they were church people and they contributed a lot of input into the old Simpson Gillespie Church. 84 30:21.000 --> 30:56.000 Now, the new church that's down here on [indistinct 00:30:25] right off of [indistinct 00:30:26] Road and coming up, I remember things that they would do for the church to raise money to move from Graham Street to build a church in the new church. We've had three locations from the old Simpson Gillespie. And this third one, it was built— The new church finally through the years, the generations of families that are there now, we were all brought up and their children into the church. 85 30:56.000 --> 31:42.000 And we often, you think about how many years it took for those servants. The history of that church is beautiful to just instill to each generation. Build a church, build a church, and the little church down on [indistinct 00:31:10], the back of the church is to the street, but that's the family home church. And they are in the history of the church. My mother and father. As well as other family people that just known very well in Charlotte, the Strive family, the Brown family and the Fullsons and the Mans and the little history. And they were just church, church, church. We were church— I'm going to say home first, church and school. 86 31:42.000 --> 31:47.000 What values did your parents try to instill in you and your brothers and sisters? 87 31:47.000 --> 32:33.000 I'm going to tell you the first thing, you had to respect each other at home. You didn't wear— You can't say, if my socks yellow, that's my socks. You couldn't say that's my pencil. You had to share. You shared. And it was just a situation where you had to really go to church. They push you to school, they push you manner, they push you character and push you things that you were supposed to know. And that, I know had a lot to do with going and going to school and knowing these values. And it's the same thing that I don't like to say what's needed now, because it's hard for me to even say what's needed. 88 32:33.000 --> 33:07.000 And it's not selfish for me to know what I have. But I do know that to be a child of two proud, hardworking Christian people, I write today, I don't know of anything evil that my mother and father ever did. They had just all, just friends, friends, friends. And I really thank and I thank God about them being the type of people they were. The values that they taught. You have to be nice to people for people to be nice to you. You have to respect people. 89 33:07.000 --> 33:09.000 What did your— Oh, I'm sorry. 90 33:09.000 --> 33:24.000 You have to respect people and you have to treat people the way you would like to be treated. You cannot allow yourself to be a certain way and then people are catered to you because of your personality. 91 33:24.000 --> 33:29.000 I'm sorry, what did your parents teach you or tell you about White people? 92 33:29.000 --> 34:30.000 That was never a conversation. It was never like White, Black. It was like people, the only thing being a young lady I know my mother took me aside to say to me, she said, "Now, I want you to be careful." Because I'm happy they let us date early too. And I think that was so when I think about it today I have another friend and I tell that I think I started dating at 15. Home company, coming to the home. And she would often say, "So you know you have to be careful? You're a young lady and you are dating." With the company that I had, which was a high school friend, football player through the years, he went into the army and I went into school. But what I'm saying, I had a steady date and most of my neighbors knew my date. Most of the little stores where we would go in, the little drugs store, knew it was in age when I was younger in my preteen. 93 34:30.000 --> 35:25.000 The only thing I didn't like about in the neighborhood, if you go certain places or to be referred is Ella and Clay's daughter. And I would speak up, I said my name is Estelle. You go to the drug store and you go in for sodas or whatever, naturally you get what you wanted came out. And then before you could get out they'll say— Oh no, here's what it would refer to, some people I would say. They're the Moorehead servants' daughter. That's the only thing that bothered me. And I would say, I'm Estelle, I'm Clay's and Ella's daughter. To me, you don't need to use the servants to it. They're servants. I just didn't like that. I just didn't like anybody to refer to me as the Moorehead servants' daughter. 94 35:25.000 --> 36:10.000 That's the only prejudice that bothered me, because I wanted to be, and I knew I was my mother and father's child, but I didn't see where the Moorehead servants had to be in it to characterize me as an individual, as young as I was. And I just didn't like that. That would bother me, and mama sometimes would say, "Well Estelle, I don't see." I say, [indistinct 00:35:46] I don't see." She said, "Well, just don't you let it bother you, you just go on." My dad always told us to speak up if anything is said wrong. I have to say other than that, that's the only thing that would bother me. And it was not in a rude way, it was just like an introduction. 95 36:10.000 --> 36:10.000 You wanted to have your own identity? 96 36:10.000 --> 36:22.000 I just wanted to be me and my mother's and father's child. But to be say so and so and so, hi Ella and Clay, so and so, they fine. 97 36:22.000 --> 36:51.000 Hi, your daddy, your mother. And then maybe somebody in the [indistinct 00:36:26] who is she or who they or whatever? It'd be two or three, you didn't go too many places, say, "Oh, well I thought that's Moorehead servants' daughter, Ella and Clay's daughter." Things like that. Another thing I must admit, one Sunday I was playing and I fell, on a Sunday. 98 36:51.000 --> 36:52.000 How old did you— 99 36:52.000 --> 37:04.000 I was nine years old. The Nall Clinic today, the Dr. [indistinct 00:37:00] Nall Clinic. Dr. Nall lived the block up from where we lived. 100 37:04.000 --> 37:10.000 Dr. Nall? 101 37:10.000 --> 37:35.000 Nall. On College Street. But the back of the house was [indistinct 00:37:14] went up the back way. He lived opposite the Moorehead family. My shoulder was hurting, daddy called Dr. Nall and told Dr. Nall and said, "Estelle's hurt herself and hurt her shoulder. And I'm going to bring her up there for you to look at her." 102 37:35.000 --> 37:45.000 And that was fine because we would go to— It was on a Sunday. Went up to Dr. Nall at the Good Samaritan Hospital was over there. 103 37:45.000 --> 37:46.000 The what hospital? 104 37:46.000 --> 37:55.000 Good Samaritan Hospital was right there. Went up to Dr. Nall. Dad and Dr. Nall talked. 105 37:55.000 --> 37:56.000 Dr. Nall Black or White? 106 37:56.000 --> 38:43.000 White. The Nall is a clinic. Is the clinic today, [indistinct 00:38:01] Nall clinic. And I sat there and he said, "Now Estelle, I'm going to tell you, I'm going to have to set your shoulder." Daddy was with me, Dr Nall, and I'm sitting there and he put my arm in a cast on his back porch, on the back porch on the Sunday screening nice back porch. And I often wonder about that. And now, although he set my arm on his porch that Sunday, my dad would have to take me to the clinic and it was on Poplar Street, I believe. 107 38:43.000 --> 39:32.000 And we go and we had to wait our turn, of course, to get the place looked after, whatever. The times that there were things that were segregated, you were still serviced. You see what I'm saying? But that Sunday setting, that Sunday on his back porch, when time came for me to go down to the office, the main building, it was on Poplar Street and it was the Nall clinic, but it was big like it is. When my time was coming and all the other patients were waited on, of course, he would have his office for other customers and naturally it was segregated. Most buildings were. But I know I got that service when I needed to go there. 108 39:32.000 --> 39:35.000 Did other patients ever say anything? 109 39:35.000 --> 39:54.000 It was just like [indistinct 00:39:37] the office would be open on a Thursday for people that were off. I think about Charlotte when it come to those medical things, even dentists and things, they would just have certain days for the other other race of people. 110 39:54.000 --> 39:57.000 Okay. So they usually had a day? 111 39:57.000 --> 40:01.000 But seemed to me that the day that I would go was on a Thursday, at Nall clinic. 112 40:01.000 --> 40:04.000 Did he have other Black patients too? 113 40:04.000 --> 40:28.000 They had help there. Black help, there's no place where he didn't have the help, the maintenance help. And I'm sure he did have other patients. And even going to Good Samaritan at the time, they were most of the doctors would have to help at Good Samaritan Hospital for a lot of things. And he probably at that time worked at Good Samaritan. 114 40:28.000 --> 40:35.000 I wanted to go back and ask you questions about your elementary school. Do you have any special remembrances of elementary? 115 40:35.000 --> 41:37.000 Lovely. This is a situation that's so hard to explain and sometimes when I think about it, it's hard to think. And I think I mentioned before, where we lived, we were not Dilworth. We were not third Ward, we were Brooklyn. And Brooklyn was a long ways from where we lived. Plus we ended up at the time into elementary school. We went— I'm trying to think. I don't think I got into— It seems that my street, elementary school, at the time that I started school was torn down. And it's bad for me to not know that history. That's not sticking with me. My years that I went to school, we went Morgan Street School, way in Cherry way out of the community. 116 41:37.000 --> 41:38.000 How did you get there? 117 41:38.000 --> 42:21.000 Okay. We got there from the Moorehead chauffer. They would take us to school. That this is very embarrassing and it's things that I block out. When we would go to school, to Morgan Street, the big car, the two of us getting out of the car, because I was held back a year because my birthday was close to hers, it was a year and six months. So I stayed out there, I was seven and she was six. We would go way to Cherry in the big old car. They would take us over there and we went there. And during that time, it was a time when people knew it was a shame that you had to go out of your community to school. 118 42:21.000 --> 42:53.000 Now remember that was Dilworth, just like DHL school, right where the [indistinct 00:42:27] is today. That was like three blocks from where we lived. Dilworth school was in that area. Few blocks from where we lived. My street was torn down. I'm trying to think how other school areas took care of the traffic. But you had to go in your district. We went to Morgan Street for a few years or so. 119 42:53.000 --> 42:54.000 Did the kids ever tease you? 120 42:54.000 --> 43:14.000 With the car, because we got so— It was so embarrassing with the big old car, they call it the hearse car. Our schoolmate. At the time that we were migrating so far from where we lived, there was a swaying bridge going over there where some children drowned. 121 43:14.000 --> 43:18.000 About what time, was that in 1930s? 1940s? 122 43:18.000 --> 43:20.000 It had to be like— 123 43:20.000 --> 43:21.000 1930s? 124 43:21.000 --> 44:15.000 Yeah, because I finished school in '42. In the early thirties, I should say the early thirties. It's bad to not have this damage, anybody can look over this and straighten it out. And then another time my mother was working and we hadn't started going to school. We hadn't gotten out of the house going to school. And she came home. She was so hurt and just exhausted. Somebody told her that a boy and a girl had gotten hit by the train and one of the ladies near the railroad track said a boy and a girl. Well, that would've been— Excuse me. My baby sister [indistinct 00:44:06], because we were all going to school and it was just like the commotion in the neighborhood. It was like it was one of us. 125 44:15.000 --> 44:58.000 But she was so hurt, even though she realized it wasn't us. I know the girl's brother that got killed by the train, finished high school with us too. We went to high school together. I mean, into the years. And it was so hurting. It was such a hurt. That's when they start getting together and knew it wasn't fair. It wasn't legitimately. Everything was wrong about migrating and going so far to school. And do you believe it wasn't too long that Dr. Wyche, Ellis Wyche, wife donated the property in Third Ward? 126 44:58.000 --> 45:16.000 Isabella Wyche Elementary School was built from the donation, the land being donated by Mrs. Wyche. But at the meantime, after these two incidents going and migrating so far— 127 45:16.000 --> 45:17.000 The flood and— 128 45:17.000 --> 45:36.000 And all of that. But the bridge broke. That's how those children— Reverend Heritage, the church on Mint Street, and his wife, they had a little private school there. What in the name were those— That church? 129 45:36.000 --> 45:41.000 Was it a Presbyterian? 130 45:41.000 --> 46:36.000 No, I can't think. Because he would go and minister to the people at the Good Samaritan Hospital. Reverend Heritage. The church was on the corner of Mint and in Hill Street. It was a nice church. I'm trying to think. They could have been [indistinct 00:45:59]. I'm ashamed of myself to not have this history down. My son will have a fit that I can't remember. After that, in the process of Isabella Wyche being built, we went to that little private school building. They didn't use it anymore. And Reverend Heritage and Mrs. Heritage, she was a teacher too. She taught there. And they used this little— That little religion. You went to the school and then from the church, and then from the church into their school. I'm trying to think. They—