Lorene Carter Poole: What was I going to say? 

Blair Murphy: I was asking you about when you went to school. You've explained about your scholarship. 

Lorene Carter Poole: Oh, yeah. I received a scholarship from The Great Granville Foundation. I think I've already explained that to you, what it's about. I went to school. And then I had to maintain a certain average to keep the scholarship. Anyway, I maintained and I made an honor student. 

Blair Murphy: What types of things did you do? 

Lorene Carter Poole: Well, first of all, I affiliated with the Methodist Student Movement. It's an organization that most anything that had to do with Christianity and things like that. I joined that. I don't remember all we did. I think we set certain goals that we were to accomplish and whatever as far as the Methodist Church is concerned in our life, with our problems in our lives. That's one reason why I joined that club. That organization, I should say. My next goal was to become a member of a sorority, and I already said that I was going to be a Delta because our team lady is the same lady that runs some other [indistinct 00:02:16] school. 

Lorene Carter Poole: I had gone to New York because that summer, the summer before I entered college, and they had met. That sorority sent me a suitcase filled with all kinds of gifts, and they had made a horn, I don't remember, or something. She brought it back with filled gifts, and I said, if was going to be anything, I was going to be a Delta. I said if I wasn't going to be a Delta, I wasn't going to join in a sorority. 

Lorene Carter Poole: But anyway, I pledged spring of my freshman year. And I went over in spring of my sophomore year. I think I missed the average one point that December of my sophomore year. But then I went up to a three point whatever it was to make sure I would get in the next semester. 

Lorene Carter Poole: Y'all can start asking some more questions. 

Blair Murphy: I have a question. You spoke a lot about church involvement, with church. Was there a family member who influenced you? What compelled you to be so involved in church? What about church? 

Lorene Carter Poole: I don't know. I guess I'd had so many experiences—. I just saw so much—so many things that were wrong that inspired me to—I just had a spiritual thing about being relieved when I was in church. Being relieved, seeing so many people dealing with alcohol, sometimes. The church was like a haven for me to escape from other things that were happening in our community, more or less. I felt very peaceful there, only in church. I still feel the same way I did, too. 

Lorene Carter Poole: I'm not sure if you know [indistinct 00:04:50], he ran for Secretary of State, a democrat, in Columbia this year, but I heard him say, I always said, he made the statement that the church was my salvation, and I wouldn't be where I am today without the church. So, one day, I was walking out the choir. We sang the choir all together. Singing was required in our church. And I heard him make that [indistinct 00:05:07] statement, and I said, "Oh, that's what I've always said. And you felt that way, too, Mr. [indistinct 00:05:16]." Church has always been a salvation. 

Lorene Carter Poole: You forget about what's really happening out there for a while. And then you regain your strength in dealing with it once you come out. And I've always had that, even when I was a child. I had to deal with certain things. The church would always relieve me, whatever pain I was suffering inside, whatever. I'd always end up finding a way to deal with it, once I had that spiritual feeling of spiritual uplift in church. 

Lorene Carter Poole: I made that my home. That's the same way now, even now. I can deal with things. I learned in early age about Christ and all things, in Sunday school as a child. I knew right from wrong. I'm not a perfect angel, I know that. All of us have sinned. But at least I knew that when I was wrong, I was wrong. You see, some children, they're raised, that are read by their homes—When they're doing wrong, nobody tells them that they're wrong, and so they keep doing wrong. But I always had a sense of knowing that I was wrong when I was wrong and right when I was right. I think the Church had something to do with it. 

Lorene Carter Poole: Now the church, in the bible, suffer so that every child—because if I didn't think I've done something or said something. You know when you're wrong, regardless. 

Lorene Carter Poole: I have taught students that come from home that have no sense of wrongs, because they were allowed to do anything. Do as you please, whatever. They had no sense of wrongness because no one was there to tell them they were wrong. No one told them they were wrong. 

Blair Murphy: When did you start teaching? 

Lorene Carter Poole: I've always had that sense of right or wrong. 

Blair Murphy: When did you start teaching? 

Lorene Carter Poole: I started teaching in August of 1956. And actually, the school opened up in August, but I knew we had to be here for 20—the new teachers had to be here on the 24th of August, a week, that's right, for about four days of training. I think school opened up the following Monday. We were here starting that Monday morning, and four days of instruction and all that would be expected, and so forth. 

Lorene Carter Poole: Then, I think we met our schools at [indistinct 00:08:25]. We could meet our principal and our staff now. I think the children came in—I don't know whether it was the Tuesday after Labor Day, I'm not sure. 

Blair Murphy: So that was a Black school? 

Lorene Carter Poole: Yes, W. A. Perry, a brand new school. We called it Little University at that time. The astronaut. We taught a lot of kids. I didn't finish getting my masters, but I have students that I've taught that have their masters, PhD, the astronaut, Charles Bolden, several other people who are now doctors, the dentist. I taught someone who was—who was the child? Oh, Gerald Jenkins, oh my God, when he was a little fella. 

Lorene Carter Poole: We taught them in seven—At that time, they only had seven and eighth grade for the first few years, and then they later added ninth grade. 

Blair Murphy: What grade did you teach? 

Lorene Carter Poole: All of them. 

Blair Murphy: Oh, okay. 

Lorene Carter Poole: Seventh, eighth, ninth. And then after that, ninth grade. Our first few years were just seventh and eighth graders. Then, they finally added ninth grade. 

Blair Murphy: So, when were schools—This was in Colombia? 

Lorene Carter Poole: It was in Colombia. 

Blair Murphy: And when were schools integrated, if they were? 

Lorene Carter Poole: They were not integrated at the time. 

Blair Murphy: What year did the process start? 

Lorene Carter Poole: 1969? 

Blair Murphy: Wow. 

Lorene Carter Poole: I don't remember. 

Blair Murphy: Sure. 

Lorene Carter Poole: I know in District 2, well, see, I've taught at several—I taught at different schools. I stayed W. A. Perry for six years. Then, I worked at Gadsen Elementary, which was later—I worked in an office for a year. I think I was—whatever, I worked. I didn't go back to teaching right away. So, I worked in an office. I worked for The Palmetto Education Association, it was an all-Black teachers state association. Teachers—An organization for teachers. 

Lorene Carter Poole: Then, I got a job at Gadsen. At that time, it was not District—That school was not in District 1, it was called [indistinct 00:10:52] school, which was District 5 at that time. Finally, it ended up bringing all the schools that were in District 5 into one district, which was District 1. All of those things. 

Lorene Carter Poole: I only worked there for a year because [indistinct 00:11:09] was leaving for—Her husband was going overseas and she was leaving with him. I didn't go back. I stayed—I was sound because I was expecting my child. I said I'm not going back down there because I was too sick to go down there. So I stayed at home here, and then I got a job in District 2, and I worked in School District 2 for 25 years. I was reassigned. I worked hard. 

Lorene Carter Poole: I retired June the 4th, 1989. 31 years. It would have been 33 years, but I was out two years with babies. Because my husband's in school at Ohio State, and when I was expecting, I was expecting to have second child, he came to get us. I worked for the first semester. He came to get us onto Ohio. We lived in marriage couples apartments on campus. So, my daughter [indistinct 00:12:17] was born in the university hospital on Ohio State Campus. 

Lorene Carter Poole: Ohio. Columbus, Ohio. She was born. Columbus, Ohio is where Ohio State is. We stayed there until that summer and then we left and came back to Columbia. What else do I need to say? Some things you want to know? 

Blair Murphy: I guess, maybe, how Colombia has changed? 

Lorene Carter Poole: Oh, Colombia has really changed a lot. When I first moved here, they were building—Started building, where they were putting lots of homes and residential areas. Because I voted in one of the Black residential areas here. I voted with a young lady that, she and her sister, had bought this home in this new area, new home now. She was looking for someone, a teacher or someone to stay with her, so while I was at Claflin in school, I met a lady who had two children and was coming back to school because her and her husband divorced. It so happened, her husband taught, was head of the biology department at State right next door. 

Lorene Carter Poole: I became like a daughter for her. She sort of put me under her wings and became her daughter. She also pledged Delta. We just—She was just like a mother. I called her my play mother. But anyway, she did so much for me. She used to send food to me. I'd call and tell her I was hungry and she would have her brother to bring food over to State—I mean, over to Claflin to me. Because she lived on campus with her brothers at State college, because he was teaching biology over there, he was head of the biology department. For a time. But anyway. I don't know whether he was head of the biology department at that time, because I think Mr. [indistinct 00:14:37] or somebody was. [indistinct 00:14:40] was in the biology department at our school, and I think father was head of science department, over the biology department, over at State. Whatever. 

Lorene Carter Poole: But anyway, I went down. I was the one in school. See, I had finished graduating and everything, so I went down to visit her. They had cleared around State, then they built homes around there. I went to visit her, and I met Rose Albert, which was visiting from Columbia in around—She informed me that—I was telling her I was going to be teaching in Columbia that year. That was going to be my first job. She said, "Well, I know someone who wants a teacher to vote for." I said, "Really?" I said, "Great." So, she gave me the name and address along with the contact, and that's how I ended up finding a place to stay. 

Lorene Carter Poole: But I just want to say that that was a new development at that time, and then they started building all over Columbia. Columbia's really build up, because—I'm trying to think of some areas now that would—Well, this area right here. The houses that are—Like, little homes up that way. Do you see them? 

Blair Murphy: Mm-hmm. 

Lorene Carter Poole: This was a quiet neighborhood, but not this side. This side, Lane Construction Company had built homes. That's where we got our first home from. On Lorick Avenue, down at that lower end. But all of this, really, has always been—All this side of Lorick Avenue, you see it, has always been Black. Okay? The little homes on the right side, now even the two big homes that you see right there, they were not there. 

Lorene Carter Poole: That was a White neighborhood. That's why you see that church. Not this one. If you look up that driveway, you'll see a big church, because this used to be a White neighborhood over on this side. But when the highway came through, 277 came this side, the Whites new ahead of time to start moving out, and Black people bought the homes, started buying the homes. They're saying that they let them know. They were prepared to move out of the neighborhood. That's why it ended up turning all— 

Lorene Carter Poole: Well, what really started it, there was a White officer or somebody that lived in one of the houses, and he and his friend, Black friend, they were friends. He sold his house to him, and you know how they do, when one moved—When you'd move in, they'd start moving out. So, it started like that at first. But really, I think someone informed us that they knew about it. The highway was coming through, so they just sold up their homes to Black people. Each one leaving because they wanted to leave anyway. They didn't want to stay because Black was in the neighborhood. I know the house where—That was the first house, that White officer or soldier gave—sold his home to his Black friend. Right up on Lorick Avenue. 

Lorene Carter Poole: So, everything on the right-hand side, that was White neighborhood. Everything on this side, all the homes—This used to be a swampy area. We used to visit the house on the corner, hickory house on the corner, there was an elderly lady, we used to call her Mother [indistinct 00:18:12], we'd get our children and come by and see her on Sundays a lot of times. There were three houses—No. Used to [indistinct 00:18:21] by the church in a little house where that house was built now. Then, there are two houses, the three houses on that street, now four houses, all this was swampy area. That's why you see all these trees. They left the trees in the yards, that was a few years ago. 

Lorene Carter Poole: But that's why you see we are surrounded by trees, because it was a swamp. I used ride [indistinct 00:18:48]. I used to live right across over there. Our first home was right over there. We'd ride by and see this swampy area, just nothing but woods, nothing but woods. Except when we'd get to the strong house, all of this was just swamp. Nothing but trees, just swampy area. 

Lorene Carter Poole: So, we finally contracted, bought all of this land up and sold the lots to us. And what happened, we had wanted to stay where we were, over where we used to live, and we wanted to add on. The land next to us was available. It had a house on it, and was supposed to live in the house, but they had brothers that were away. Their mother passed. They promised to let us have that land so we could stay there and add on because we had a narrow lot. We were going to—already had made plans, everything. From another street and all. The realtor said he didn't want his mother's land broken up in pieces. 

Lorene Carter Poole: One of my friends came by, in a new car. She got a new car to take me for a ride. The same girl I told you that I voted with my first year of teaching. Both of us were single, all of us were married—But anyway, she drove. She got me a ride, so she brought me over to this neighborhood. But I already knew a lot of people in this neighborhood. I saw the sign, I said, "Look, that house is up for sale." And I never wanted to be too far from the bus stop, neither be too far from our church. Walking distance to the church, walking distance to the bus stop. Because we needed a bus, we didn't always have a car, and we would always be close to the church. 

Lorene Carter Poole: I went back—So, they did. My husband had got up. The next door neighbor there, see, worked with us. We talked together, next door neighbor. We talked over at Perry school, the first school, my first job. He told us that he'd better get down, because he saw the people that were going to bid. Well, we had gotten Jenkins Realty was going to be down there to be there for us, to try to get the house for us, this house for us. Something told my husband, he said, "God spoke to me on that house." 

Lorene Carter Poole: But anyway, he went down and bid at Jenkins. He went one dollar, two dollars over, and the bank was only interested in what was getting owed to them— That's how we got here. 

Lorene Carter Poole: But this was nothing. I called it the wilderness. They built those apartments, that was a residence over there, too, those apartments over there were public housing. All that was woods, too. Except across the railroad track, that was all White neighborhood, but where those apartments [indistinct 00:22:02] trees. 

Lorene Carter Poole: Then, you have Meadow Lake. You have any number of beautiful areas, full of Afro-Americans, that they build since then. 

Blair Murphy: So people still largely live in Black and White neighborhoods? 

Lorene Carter Poole: I would say most—I would say that most Blacks still live in certain areas, Blacks. But so many—You see, now, since then, where my nephew lived before, well, his wife and two children still live there. That was a multiculture neighborhood. It was built that way. Whites were moving in and Blacks were moving in. That neighborhood. Like, in certain areas and now. My daughter, when she and her husband, they lived in a neighborhood where—Well, Black and White, they knew it, that it was going to be integrated. They moved into the neighborhood. It didn't matter that much with them. 

Lorene Carter Poole: Therefore, there are some built now. My nephew lived in that same neighborhood. What's the name? Mango? I don't know what it is, the big construction—but anyway, there are some neighborhoods like that where White and Black move into it. They don't move out of it because they knew that before then. Because that's where my nephews live, White and Black building in that neighborhood. They knew that Blacks lived there, and Blacks knew that they lived there. They knew that it was going to be a multiculture neighborhood. 

Lorene Carter Poole: Harbison is like that, too. That was an experience, but I'm not sure I know enough about that to explain that. But Harbison was an area that, if you ever go out there, they knew that that was going to be a multiculture neighborhood. Afro-Americans, as well as Caucasians. So, we've really grown. 

Lorene Carter Poole: I don't think there's now there—A Caucasian or European-descended, or whatever they're called, neighborhood in Colombia that's not integrated, that's not been one Black neighborhood since— 

Lorene Carter Poole: Spring Valley. I have a co-worker and a friend that lives in Spring Valley, and there are several people I knew that were Afro-American live in Spring Valley. The Caucasians did not move out. They stayed there. They didn't move because I knew someone, a White friend there, who was an art teacher, who had my retirement party there, all about teaching, she had it in their home. They don't move out, they just [indistinct 00:25:12] and so they stay. But mostly, people who move out a lot of times are these small—People who own these smaller homes because they've got all kinds of hangups about Afro-Americans. A lot of us have accepted it, and—they're there. 

Lorene Carter Poole: So, that's one big change since I've been here, soon will be 39 years, August 24th. Came here in '56. The shopping centers, oh, they are just, they've grown out of sight. As a matter of fact, we've got too many. 

Lorene Carter Poole: Did the phone ring?