Felix Armfield: Today is July thirteenth, 1994. I'm Felix Armfield, the interviewer, and I'm about to interview Mrs. Laura Goods and Mrs. Veora Lundy, who are two former Black nurses here in New Orleans. And interestingly enough, we're going to be interviewing them at the famous Dooky Chase. Ms. Goods, could I have you, just for the record, just state your full name? Laura Jordan Goods: My name is Mrs. Laura Jordan Goods. Felix Armfield: Okay. Laura Jordan Goods: And Mrs. Lundy, would you do the same? Veora Hawkins Lundy: I'm Mrs. Veora Hawkins Lundy. Felix Armfield: Okay. And you both were former nurses here in New Orleans. With Mrs. Lundy's years on the two of us, Mrs. Goods, why don't we start out with you by just telling how long have you lived here in New Orleans? Veora Hawkins Lundy: Oh, I have lived here about for fifty years now. Felix Armfield: Okay. Were you born and raised here in New Orleans? Veora Hawkins Lundy: No, I was not. I was born in Iberville Parish. But when our parents died, they took us to Houston, Texas and we were reared up in Houston. Felix Armfield: Okay. When you say they took us, who took you? Veora Hawkins Lundy: Relatives, my aunt and uncle. Felix Armfield: Okay. Veora Hawkins Lundy: Yeah. Felix Armfield: Then you went to live with your aunt and uncle? Veora Hawkins Lundy: Right. Felix Armfield: Now, both your parents died at the same time during— Veora Hawkins Lundy: No. No, they died separate times, but they died young. Very young. My brother was a crawling baby and I was a very small, small child. Felix Armfield: Oh really? So was it just you and your brother? Veora Hawkins Lundy: Yes. Felix Armfield: You and your brother were the only two children. And then you went to live in Houston, Texas? Veora Hawkins Lundy: I went to school in Houston, Texas. Completed high school at Jack Yates High School. Felix Armfield: What was that? Veora Hawkins Lundy: Jack Yates High School. Felix Armfield: Spell that for me? Veora Hawkins Lundy: That's in Houston, Texas. Felix Armfield: Okay. Jack and— Veora Hawkins Lundy: Yates is the last name. Felix Armfield: Is that Y-A-T-E-S? Veora Hawkins Lundy: Y-A-T-E-S. He was supposed to be a very famous Negro in Houston. Felix Armfield: Okay. What year did you finish high school there at Jack Yates? Veora Hawkins Lundy: That I think it was—That's a long time. I think it was must have been in '30. '30, I imagine, '32. It been a long time. Felix Armfield: Well, if you finished up at Flint-Goodridge Nursing School in '34, we can assume that you must have came out of high school about 1930. Veora Hawkins Lundy: Right. Felix Armfield: Which is a good rough estimate. Then immediately following high school, did you then migrate on to New Orleans? Veora Hawkins Lundy: No, I didn't. When I made my application to Flint-Goodridge Hospital, I was a year too young to enter. So, I was able to work one year and come in the next year. Felix Armfield: Okay. Now what was too young at the time? Veora Hawkins Lundy: Well, you had to be eighteen to— Felix Armfield: You weren't eighteen. Veora Hawkins Lundy: I wasn't eighteen, no. Felix Armfield: So, they would not allow you to come in the program. That interesting. So what did you do in that year's time that you had that was free then? Veora Hawkins Lundy: Well, I worked for a private family. A young couple who had a young child, but they had a business, and they needed someone to take complete care of their child and that house while they were away. I did this until the day I left. Felix Armfield: Okay. Now, was this a Black couple or a— Veora Hawkins Lundy: A very young couple. Yeah. Felix Armfield: Were they a Black or White family? Veora Hawkins Lundy: No, they were White. Felix Armfield: Okay. Veora Hawkins Lundy: They were very kind. Felix Armfield: And that was there in Houston, Texas? Veora Hawkins Lundy: In Houston, Texas. Felix Armfield: Now when were you born, Mrs. Lundy? Veora Hawkins Lundy: Where was I born? Felix Armfield: When? Veora Hawkins Lundy: October the thirtieth, 1913. Felix Armfield: October the thirtieth, 1913. Veora Hawkins Lundy: Yeah. Felix Armfield: Okay. I know you got some interesting stories today. Well, we're going to get back to that in just a minute. Mrs. Goods, how long have you lived here in New Orleans? Laura Jordan Goods: I've lived here in New Orleans since 1927. Felix Armfield: Now, were you born and raised here in New Orleans? Laura Jordan Goods: No, I was born Iberville Parish in Plaquemine, Louisiana. Veora Hawkins Lundy: Oh, the same parish. Felix Armfield: So that's the same parish that Mrs. Lundy. So Iberville Parish. Now, where is this Iberville Parish? Laura Jordan Goods: Well, all I know it's the country. I haven't been there over three [indistinct 00:04:24] since I got here. Because I came to New Orleans in June twenty-seventh when my mother died. My father was no longer in the picture. My mother died and my maternal grandparents and took me, and reared me in New Orleans. Felix Armfield: Okay. Now were you already in New Orleans at the time of 1927? Laura Jordan Goods: No, I was in the country when my mother died. Felix Armfield: In Iberville Parish? Laura Jordan Goods: Yes. Felix Armfield: Okay. Then you came to New Orleans. Laura Jordan Goods: Right. Felix Armfield: And how old were you at that time? Laura Jordan Goods: Seven. Felix Armfield: Seven years old. So basically— Laura Jordan Goods: I was born January the first, 1920. Felix Armfield: January 1st. Okay. Save me the trouble of asking. Huh? Laura Jordan Goods: Yes. Felix Armfield: Okay. At the very impressionable age of seven years old, you came to New Orleans to live with your aunt and uncle? Laura Jordan Goods: Aunt who had two children, she was a divorced person, and my grandmother and grandfather who had proceeded me to the city. My grandfather was Reverend Richard Poor for who was a Baptist minister. You know how Baptist churches send people home when they get old? Felix Armfield: Yeah. Laura Jordan Goods: So, they had ended up in New Orleans with their daughter. Felix Armfield: Okay. And at that time you came to join them. Did you have any other brothers and sisters? Laura Jordan Goods: I'm the only child. Felix Armfield: The only child. Interesting. What were your first impressions of New Orleans in 1927? Laura Jordan Goods: It's very difficult for me to remember, but I was happy because I knew my grandmother when I was smaller, and I had attended church school. I mean church school in the church in Morrisonville, and my grandparent lived in Morrisonville. Felix Armfield: Okay. Now, was that typical that you would attend school in the church? Laura Jordan Goods: Yes. Felix Armfield: Why was that? Can you tell me a little bit about— Laura Jordan Goods: There were no schools in that area for Blacks. Felix Armfield: Okay. Laura Jordan Goods: And we were taught by a cousin whose name was Saphronia Poor. And she taught Sunday school and she taught school in this church. We walked on the levy to the church every day and walked back. Except on the times if I stayed over at my grandparents house. Felix Armfield: So all of your early schooling took place there in that church, and that was the school setting for the children from the surrounding areas that were Black— Laura Jordan Goods: Right. When I came to New Orleans, I entered into AP Rickard School? No, AP Williams. It was in the Red Light District. Felix Armfield: AP— Laura Jordan Goods: AP Williams. Felix Armfield: Williams. Laura Jordan Goods: Yes. Felix Armfield: And it was in the Red Light District. Laura Jordan Goods: That's what they called it then. Felix Armfield: What did you mean? What did the Red Light District signify then? Laura Jordan Goods: There was not supposed to be—They had houses of ill repute and there were lots of Black Doctors living in it. Felix Armfield: Okay. So pretty much the Red Light District meant the same thing then that it does today? Laura Jordan Goods: Right. Felix Armfield: In the Red Light District. Laura Jordan Goods: And my church that I attended was right around the corner from my school. Felix Armfield: Church you attended, was right around the corner from the school. Now you were in fact a Baptist family? Laura Jordan Goods: I came out of a Baptist family, but mine had joined Westlake Episcopal Methodist Church. So, I entered into Westlake. Felix Armfield: Okay. Now have you remained an Episcopal? Laura Jordan Goods: I remained a Methodist. Felix Armfield: Okay. Laura Jordan Goods: All my life. So when I married, I left Westlake and married into Grace United Methodist Church. That's where I still am. Felix Armfield: Interesting. Now, what kinds of things did your aunt and uncle do? Laura Jordan Goods: My Aunt— Felix Armfield: Oh, I keep saying Uncle. What kind of things did your Aunt do? Laura Jordan Goods: My Aunt worked in the Dietary Department at Charity Hospital. She was a cook. Felix Armfield: This is in 1927? Laura Jordan Goods: 1927. And she moved from being a cook, and then there were times when she cleaned up the clinic, maybe she was doing both of these things. Felix Armfield: So was that basically the only job opportunities that would've been available to her as a Black woman at Charity? Laura Jordan Goods: Yes. Felix Armfield: Okay. Was— Laura Jordan Goods: And strangely enough, I lived on Robertson Street, South Robertson and I could see Charity Hospital, which was run by the Whites and educated Whites to become nurses. But I could also look down the street on Robinson Street and see Flint-Goodridge Hospital, which was in a two story building that was teaching Black nurses. Felix Armfield: Interesting. Laura Jordan Goods: And I spent— Every morning I would run out there just to see, because they would march. You know the way they going? Veora Hawkins Lundy: Yeah. Laura Jordan Goods: I was see the ones from Flat coming out the side or around the street, march around the doors to the front of the building. I decided at a very early age I wanted to be a nurse. Felix Armfield: So, that made an impression on you? Laura Jordan Goods: Yes. Felix Armfield: To see the uniform Black women doing what appeared to be a very uniform regimented, kind of, task. Laura Jordan Goods: Right. And being the oldest girl in that family, because three years later another Aunt died and she left three children. So this family inherited three more of us. Felix Armfield: So the family was constantly growing? Laura Jordan Goods: Right. Felix Armfield: Now let me ask you quick question before we move back to Mrs. Lundy. At that time in 1927, that you said that your was working for Charity as a Dietician— Laura Jordan Goods: And a cook. Felix Armfield: Yeah. And doing some domestic— Laura Jordan Goods: Cleaning the place. Felix Armfield: —kinds of work down at Charity, were Blacks doing any other kinds of things at Charity Hospital? Laura Jordan Goods: No. Felix Armfield: Now Charity Hospital was the White hospital. Laura Jordan Goods: It was the County hospital. Veora Hawkins Lundy: State. Laura Jordan Goods: It's the State run hospital, but it was roomed, and everybody who found a positions that were non-menial were White people. So, the Black people were the people who cleaned up and did the cooking and things like that. Felix Armfield: Okay. Now at this time, does Charity care for the needs of the Black healthcare, concerns of the Black community? Laura Jordan Goods: Yes. And Mrs. Lundy was probably part of that. Yeah. They took care of, they were clinics we went to and then would—The hospitals were divided down the middle Blacks go one way and Whites go the other way. Felix Armfield: Okay. But there were no Black Doctors? Laura Jordan Goods: Oh no! Veora Hawkins Lundy: No. That's much too early. Felix Armfield: Oh. Laura Jordan Goods: They didn't get Black Doctors until I became a teacher there. I went there as a student, so I dealing affiliating there. There were no Black people who were teachers or Doctors or anything. At Charity then, the Blacks were orderlies and the people who scrubbed and cleaned and work in the kitchen down in the basement. You know that's— Veora Hawkins Lundy: Yeah. Felix Armfield: Mrs. Lundy? Veora Hawkins Lundy: Yes. Felix Armfield: Well, tell me a little bit about what it was growing up in Houston, Texas before we get to New Orleans. Veora Hawkins Lundy: Well, Houston is a segregated state, but Texas is wide open. Felix Armfield: So Houston, there was segregation also? Veora Hawkins Lundy: Oh yeah. Felix Armfield: Okay. Veora Hawkins Lundy: Very much so. Felix Armfield: Okay. No need to think otherwise, huh? Veora Hawkins Lundy: They had oil fields and some agriculture and things like that, and lumbering was really the main jobs for men. They paid well, and my Uncle was a hard worker, and my Aunt stayed home to take care of the house. So life was pretty nice in Houston. At that time, new Houston was almost just like a big country town. They didn't have a lot of rent houses. Most people had their own homes there, and historically they have always had good schools. So, we were very fortunate to get in school in Houston. But before we went to Houston, I went to another a church school, Second Baptist's. Felix Armfield: So you too got church schooled? Veora Hawkins Lundy: Yeah. And I mean they were strict. You had to— Felix Armfield: Tell us a little bit about that. Veora Hawkins Lundy: Beg your pardon? Felix Armfield: Tell us a little bit about— Veora Hawkins Lundy: We learned the ten commandments in the school. At that time when they called for Math, it was learning the tables and all—In other words, we learned basic things in that school. So, I think I went to school one year here when I got to a regular school. Thom La Forn, we didn't go there long because— Felix Armfield: What was the name of it? Veora Hawkins Lundy: Thom La Forn. Felix Armfield: Tom— Veora Hawkins Lundy: Yeah, T-H-O-M L-A F-O-R-N. Thom La Forn. Felix Armfield: Okay. Once you came to New Orleans— Veora Hawkins Lundy: And that was public school. Beg your pardon? Felix Armfield: That was once you came to New Orleans? Veora Hawkins Lundy: Yes. You see, I got my basic training in this church school. So I was about fourth or fifth grade when I went to Thom La Forn. See? I didn't go there very long when I had an Aunt who was very bossy and who was very determined. Part of the family didn't want her to have us. She would determine she was going to have—because my mother was her favorite sister. So, she came to New Orleans to visit and ask if she could come back and bring us on a vacation at my grandmother's. Incidentally, she was my step-grandmother, which was no relation to—She said, yes. Veora Hawkins Lundy: So she picked us up and brought us to Houston. We were there about, I guess, a month when my grandfather wrote and told her to bring us back. She said it was too short a time for her to bring us back. So he waited a while and he wrote back and said, "Be sure to bring those children." She wrote back and said, "I have no money to bring the children back and if—" Felix Armfield: Oh my goodness. Veora Hawkins Lundy: "—and if you want them, come and get them." Well, she was the bossy type and they didn't push her around. So grandfather didn't, never came after, but he got a lawyer to write to my Aunt and tell her if she didn't bring us back, she was going to be charged with kidnapping. Now my Aunt wasn't educated. She said, "I went to Uncle Anthony's house and picked those children up, and they brought us to the station. And those are my dead sister's children. I want them educated and I am not bringing them back, and you can't charge me with kidnapping." You would have really have to know my Aunt to appreciate it. She meant business. Of course, my Uncle was right behind whatever she decided. So they quit worrying her, and so we grew up in Houston. Felix Armfield: Now were you and your brother concerned with going back to your— Veora Hawkins Lundy: No, indeed not by any means. Felix Armfield: Oh, okay. So you were very content with here in New Orleans? Veora Hawkins Lundy: Happy as we could be. Felix Armfield: Really? So your Aunt, in spite of the fact that she was bossy, she really loved and cared for you and your brother. Veora Hawkins Lundy: Absolutely. And you know she— Felix Armfield: Now, did she have children of her own? Veora Hawkins Lundy: But they were adults. Her children was grown and we were— Felix Armfield: Okay. Veora Hawkins Lundy: My mother was the younger sister, so we were only little children. So, my Aunt stuck to her guns and we stayed in Houston until we got ready to go to college. I came to New Orleans. Felix Armfield: Oh, you stayed in Houston? Not— Okay. Now Thom La Forn, was that in Houston? Veora Hawkins Lundy: No. Thom La Forn was right here in New Orleans. That's when they first brought us to New Orleans. We were little children then. Felix Armfield: Okay. Veora Hawkins Lundy: In other words from Iberville Parish to New Orleans, and I think I must have about third, second or third grade when my Aunt came and got us. And then we stayed here a while and then we went on to Houston. Felix Armfield: Oh, so your Aunt was in Houston? Veora Hawkins Lundy: Yes. Felix Armfield: Oh, okay. I was thinking your grandfather was the one that was in— Veora Hawkins Lundy: No, no. My grandfather was here in New Orleans, and when she came to get us on a vacation and she said she knew in her heart she wasn't going to bring us back. She knew that. Like I said, my Uncle was right behind her whatever she wanted to do. Felix Armfield: Well, it sounds like she was very concerned with your education. Veora Hawkins Lundy: Yes, she was. She said— Felix Armfield: Is that to say that you had a better chance of obtaining better education in Houston— Veora Hawkins Lundy: Oh, by— Felix Armfield: —than you did in New Orleans? Veora Hawkins Lundy: By all means. By all means. Because everything they offered in high school, they had it in the high school it was in Houston, Black and White. The Sciences and what's—I guess you call Physical Education, all the Math, all the English that you needed at that time, they had it to offer. Their teachers had to have degrees before they could teach in the school. There was no second thing is what you call it? Felix Armfield: Normal. Veora Hawkins Lundy: Normal. Yeah, they didn't have that. You had to get a college education. So they were well trained teachers. Felix Armfield: Good. Veora Hawkins Lundy: And then that was an oil state, they had a lot of money and they could invest from good schools. Felix Armfield: Pour more money into Education. Veora Hawkins Lundy: Yeah. Felix Armfield: Now, when did you first obtain your interest in becoming a nurse? Did you know all along you wanted to be a nurse? Veora Hawkins Lundy: Almost like Laura. Going to Yates High School. We passed the Negro hospital, it was the very hospital. Felix Armfield: What was the Negro hospital? Veora Hawkins Lundy: But there—Beg your pardon? Felix Armfield: What was the name of the Negro hospital there in Houston? Veora Hawkins Lundy: Oh, just Houston Negro Hospital. Felix Armfield: Oh, it was—Houston Negro. Okay. Veora Hawkins Lundy: Yeah. Felix Armfield: Go ahead. Veora Hawkins Lundy: There was a nurse named Ms. Bright and she was in charge of the hospital and she was a tall, stately woman. She wore this white uniform and this navy blue cape turned back with the red showing on it. It was just impressive. I said to myself, I said, "I would like to be like her. I really would be—" And then they had sent School nurses in to check the children and all. I said, "That's the job for me if I ever finish high school." This is why I went into Nursing. Veora Hawkins Lundy: I didn't regret it except the time we'd be working twelve hours, and like when the patients started dying, they would send us to sit with them and all that sort of stuff. But I hung in there. My Aunt thought—She kind of felt that I wasn't happy. She said, "Now if you want to, you can come home anytime you get ready." I said, "Okay, but I'm going to stick it out." Then at that time they gave, I think after your junior year, they gave you a stipend. Felix Armfield: Okay. Veora Hawkins Lundy: Yeah. So that really, your last year didn't cost you anything if you were satisfactory. Felix Armfield: Oh, good. Interesting. Mrs.— Laura Jordan Goods: Goods. Felix Armfield: —Goods, where do you finish your high school training here in New Orleans? Laura Jordan Goods: From A.P. Williams I went on to Hoffman Jr. High. Felix Armfield: Hoffman? Laura Jordan Goods: Yes. To J.W. Hoffman. Felix Armfield: Now, spell Hoffman. Laura Jordan Goods: H-O-F-F-M-A-N. Felix Armfield: N? Laura Jordan Goods: Mm-hmm. Felix Armfield: Now, is that where you went to high school? Laura Jordan Goods: That's where I went to junior high school. I was walking, I don't know how many miles, but I was walking from 2310 Iberville Street all the way up, it's on South Claiborne Street just to [indistinct 00:20:54] school. I didn't have seven cents to ride the transit. Just like when I was going to AP Williams, I didn't have money to buy lunch. My grandmother with fried bread, or whatever we had, and that's what we had for lunch. Strangely enough, people who had money to buy lunch were fighting for our lunch, and we would switch lunches. Laura Jordan Goods: Like Lundy, when I was in elementary school, when I entered AP Williams I was in third grade. Then when I got into seventh grade, there was a teacher there by the name of Ms. Pearson who saw something in me and took a special interest in me. At that time, teachers were not married. They were old maids. But she was very stately with a long black dress and her hair in a bun, and a stick in her hand. Which she used to knock you whenever you were out of line— Felix Armfield: Discipline you or— Laura Jordan Goods: —Or whatever you were doing. Then she wanted to skip me, but I cried and didn't want to leave my class. So my second time a went for my class, and then I went to Hopkins School. From Hopkins school, I think I stayed there two or three years, I went on to McDonald 35, which was the only senior high school for Blacks in the state, in the city. Felix Armfield: In the City of New Orleans? Laura Jordan Goods: Yes. When I got there, I was placed, they had General Education and College Education. So they put me in a college track. Felix Armfield: Okay. So they were prepping you for college all along? Laura Jordan Goods: Yes. I graduated from that school in 1937. Felix Armfield: Graduated from McDonogh 35 in 1937. Okay. Following having graduated in 1937, do you know then that you're going to go on off and obtain Nursing degree? Laura Jordan Goods: During the time I was going to junior high school, at the 37. I continued to say, "I'm going to be a nurse." But then I ended up working evenings and weekends at a Ms. Malone San's boarding house on— Felix Armfield: Ms. Malone San? Laura Jordan Goods: Yes. Felix Armfield: Would you spell that? Laura Jordan Goods: M-A-L— Felix Armfield: M-A? Laura Jordan Goods: L. Malone—L-O-N S-A-N. I think I have it right because it was years ago. Felix Armfield: [indistinct 00:23:19]. Laura Jordan Goods: My chores included, on weekends I did the washing for all of the people who lived in the house. During the evenings, and sometimes on the weekends, I had to clean the rooms. It was something like 20 rooms. Her boarding house was there for the young White Graduates from Charity Hospital. Felix Armfield: Now, which White Graduates? Laura Jordan Goods: From Charity Hospital. Felix Armfield: I mean Doctors or nurses? Laura Jordan Goods: Nursing. nurses. It was a nursing boarding house for these girls who graduated. Upon graduating, they moved into this house, because it was close to Charity and it was reasonable— Felix Armfield: Okay. Laura Jordan Goods: I always said I wanted to be a nurse, so I used to put on their uniform, and I would clean up there, and wear their shoes. Veora Hawkins Lundy: Yeah. Laura Jordan Goods: On my floor we put on this. They laughed when I said I wanted to be a nurse. Felix Armfield: They laughed? Laura Jordan Goods: Yes. Felix Armfield: As to belittle? Laura Jordan Goods: Belittling me. Felix Armfield: All right. Laura Jordan Goods: I had to say, "Well, where are you going to be a nurse?" Because, by that time Flint-Goodridge Hospital had closed. Felix Armfield: Now what year is this? Is this like 1937? Laura Jordan Goods: This was like 1930, I was thirteen years old when I started this. I did this until I graduated. Okay. So that must have been 1933 at some point. Felix Armfield: And Flint-Goodridge had closed it's doors at that time? Laura Jordan Goods: Right. Felix Armfield: But what kind of proper healthcare is being offered here in the City of New Orleans to Black people? Laura Jordan Goods: People were going to Charity. The people who went to Flint were usually the people who had some money to pay for the service. Felix Armfield: But Flint-Goodridge were clearly a Black establishment? Laura Jordan Goods: Yes. Felix Armfield: There were Black Doctors and Black nurses— Laura Jordan Goods: They had Black Doctors— Felix Armfield: —and Black Administrators. Laura Jordan Goods: —and nurses. No, the Administrators were White and they had White Doctors on the staff. Felix Armfield: Right. Okay. The story needs to be told. Laura Jordan Goods: Right. I was getting five dollars a week. Felix Armfield: For— Laura Jordan Goods: For all that work. Felix Armfield: Cleaning that boarding house? Laura Jordan Goods: Yeah. But at that time, that was a lot of money. Felix Armfield: Yeah. Laura Jordan Goods: It helped me buy clothes— Veora Hawkins Lundy: Yeah. Laura Jordan Goods: —shoes to go to school. Because up until that time, for a minute the clothes I wore, which turned out to be good clothes, were given to me by White families who lived in the streets behind us. I got this stuff hand me down from— Felix Armfield: Now, what area of town are you living in? Laura Jordan Goods: I was living— Felix Armfield: What ward was it? Laura Jordan Goods: —two blocks off Canal Street. I don't remember the ward, but it's two blocks off Canal Street. Felix Armfield: So, you were in the uptown? Laura Jordan Goods: I was in—When you below Canal Street, you fall downtown. Felix Armfield: Okay, so you were below— Laura Jordan Goods: Yes. Felix Armfield: So, you were downtown. Laura Jordan Goods: The 23rd hundred block of Iberville Street. Felix Armfield: Okay. Laura Jordan Goods: And Iberville Street, was one block from Canal Street. Felix Armfield: So, you were down town? Laura Jordan Goods: Mm-hmm. Felix Armfield: Okay. You were saying that you would dress up in the White Student nurses, uniforms and shoes and things— Laura Jordan Goods: While I cleaned. Felix Armfield: And you would tell them that you wanted to be a nurse? Laura Jordan Goods: Yes. Felix Armfield: And they would laugh at you. What kind of conversations was spark from those incidents? Laura Jordan Goods: They would ask me what I wanted to be, and I would tell them. There were lot of them, they had [indistinct 00:26:42] from room to room. They were in their rooms at night the keys were in. They would just say, "Oh really, you want to be a nurse?" And they just laugh. Then some of them were kind, so kind to me. Some of them would just create extra things for me to do. Felix Armfield: Really? Laura Jordan Goods: Mm-hmm. Felix Armfield: This raises all kinds of questions in my mind for the healthcare concern of the Black community here in New Orleans. Mrs. Lundy, when you initially decided that you wanted to be a nurse, did that concern of—The healthcare concerns specifically of the black community, was that one of your concerns, one of your specific interests? Veora Hawkins Lundy: Well, specifically I wanted to be a nurse. I mean, this was my concern. I didn't know the need because we never were sick. We never went to a hospital, and the people around us were all right. But, to me this was a great promotion to become a nurse. Now, after I became a nurse, I was concerned because I saw the need. I mean— Felix Armfield: When did you become a nurse? Veora Hawkins Lundy: When did I become a nurse? Felix Armfield: Yes. Veora Hawkins Lundy: In 1934. Felix Armfield: 1934? Veora Hawkins Lundy: Yeah. Felix Armfield: Where did you get that degree that gave you the authority to be a nurse? Veora Hawkins Lundy: What'd you say? Felix Armfield: Where did you get the degree? Where did you get— Veora Hawkins Lundy: Right here in New—I finished from Flint-Goodridge School of Nursing. Felix Armfield: Finished from what was called the Flint-Goodridge School of Nursing. Veora Hawkins Lundy: Flint-Goodridge School of Nursing of Dillard University. Felix Armfield: Okay, so it was an extension. Veora Hawkins Lundy: Yeah. But it wasn't a degree program at that time. It was this three year— Laura Jordan Goods: Diploma. Veora Hawkins Lundy: —diploma. Yeah. Felix Armfield: Okay. But you still were consider a nurse once you were finished? Veora Hawkins Lundy: Oh, yes. Yeah. Laura Jordan Goods: You passed the Board? Veora Hawkins Lundy: Oh yeah. Felix Armfield: Oh yeah. Veora Hawkins Lundy: Look, I ain't bragging, but I was number one. Felix Armfield: Okay. You passed number one at— Veora Hawkins Lundy: In other words, I made the highest mark in the State Board at that time. This is what I'm saying. Felix Armfield: Was that Black or White? Veora Hawkins Lundy: Black and White. Everybody was taking the State Board the same time. Felix Armfield: Ooh— Veora Hawkins Lundy: See what I'm talking about? Felix Armfield: Yeah. Veora Hawkins Lundy: But I will say this, a lot of those teachers didn't have degrees, but they were dedicated. They knew what they were doing and you didn't fool them. I imagine some of the things that they offer now at a nursing school, they weren't offering it then. You see? Like—Well no English or anything like that. Your high school English was the English you had until you got out and went to a college or something like that. So it was all related to Nursing. Laura Jordan Goods: That was E. Lines Baker was your Director? Veora Hawkins Lundy: Who? Laura Jordan Goods: Was E. Lines Baker your Director? Veora Hawkins Lundy: Yes, indeed. Strict as she could be. Felix Armfield: What was her name? Veora Hawkins Lundy: Eola Lines Baker. Laura Jordan Goods: [indistinct 00:29:50]. Felix Armfield: That was the Director who was so strict? Veora Hawkins Lundy: She was the Director, and believe me she was— Felix Armfield: This was at— Veora Hawkins Lundy: She was a director. And I don't think she had a degree when she was a Director. You see? Felix Armfield: Mrs. Lundy, you were telling us about whether— Veora Hawkins Lundy: Eola Lines. Felix Armfield: Ms. Baker had a degree, but how strict she was— Veora Hawkins Lundy: Yes. Felix Armfield: —there at the program. What were some of the requirements? Veora Hawkins Lundy: Well, you had to be of good character. I think we had to finish in your second or third list in your high school, and had to be in good health. For the time you had to pay, you have to have the money. Or, something— Felix Armfield: Now what kind of cost was that? Veora Hawkins Lundy: Beg your pardon? Felix Armfield: When you say you had to pay, what was the cost approximately? Veora Hawkins Lundy: I couldn't really remember. But it was pretty good the first two years. Felix Armfield: Okay. Veora Hawkins Lundy: Yeah. But, when I was in nursing The Depression was on. There was a lot of people didn't have the money. Felix Armfield: Now when you were a student? Veora Hawkins Lundy: When I was a student, yeah. Felix Armfield: The Depression. Veora Hawkins Lundy: Yeah. Felix Armfield: What kinds of complications did that bring about so far as— Veora Hawkins Lundy: Well, a lot of people just couldn't enter. Sometimes some churches would give scholarships. And incidentally, the background of Flint-Goodridge Hospital is Methodist. Felix Armfield: Okay. So it— Veora Hawkins Lundy: It's a Methodist concern. I don't know where they joined the, what's that? The United Church of Christ? Laura Jordan Goods: Yes. Veora Hawkins Lundy: But the Methodist Church established— Felix Armfield: Flint-Goodridge. Veora Hawkins Lundy: Flint-Goodridge. It also established, what they call, New Orleans University and Gilbert Academy. Felix Armfield: Okay. Laura Jordan Goods: And Straights Academy. Veora Hawkins Lundy: Oh, Straight was congregation here. Yeah. Felix Armfield: Yeah. But they all came together to form Dillard University— Veora Hawkins Lundy: Yeah. Right. Felix Armfield: Got [indistinct 00:31:36] to that. Veora Hawkins Lundy: Yeah. Felix Armfield: Now when you say that you had to be of good character, was there a character statute that was in place if you wanted to be a Black nurse, or a nurse period? Veora Hawkins Lundy: A nurse period. You just had to be a good character. In other words, you couldn't be a good timer, couldn't be a gambler. You couldn't run around with people's husbands and boyfriends, and that sort of thing. Why that tickles yourself? What you asked me, didn't you? Felix Armfield: And I'm glad you told me. I'm glad you told me. This group will certainly appreciate— Veora Hawkins Lundy: Who? Honey, let me tell you, if they found out they shipped you home immediately. You couldn't come in there with that kind of cat. Felix Armfield: Now could nurses be married, at the time? Veora Hawkins Lundy: Well, when we were students, no. And I don't think you could either— Laura Jordan Goods: You couldn't be [indistinct 00:32:37] when I came along, which was '42. Felix Armfield: So okay, now as a student, it's understood you weren't going to be married. Veora Hawkins Lundy: Yeah. Felix Armfield: But once you became a nurse, could you marry? Veora Hawkins Lundy: Yeah, because you had so many outlets. You didn't have to work at any special hospitals. You could work with State or you could work for private hospitals. Felix Armfield: You weren't necessarily like teachers. Teachers weren't supposed to be married— Veora Hawkins Lundy: Oh no, it wasn't that strict. But they were very strict while you were a student. Felix Armfield: Okay. Now where did you receive your training? Veora Hawkins Lundy: Where? Felix Armfield: Where did you receive your training? Veora Hawkins Lundy: Right here at Flint-Goodridge Hospital of Dillard University. Felix Armfield: Okay. So you received the training there at Flint-Goodridge. Could you have gone to Charity to get your training? Veora Hawkins Lundy: Oh, no! That was much too soon. Much too— Felix Armfield: Now, what was too soon? What time—When did you get your training at Flint-Goodridge? Veora Hawkins Lundy: What time did I get— Felix Armfield: What year? What year? Veora Hawkins Lundy: Well, I went in '31. I finished in 34. So, that— Felix Armfield: Okay. Charity was not taking— Veora Hawkins Lundy: No. Felix Armfield: —no Black nurses. Veora Hawkins Lundy: In fact, there wasn't a school in the South that was taking Black nurses. Felix Armfield: So, basically— Veora Hawkins Lundy: If— Felix Armfield: —Black hospitals had to be established in order for Black nurses to get their training. Veora Hawkins Lundy: Right. Of course, they had to be observed and there was some standards required of them by the State, and— Felix Armfield: So, it was just out of—Completely out of the question? The fact that you were going to go to Charity Hospital to get your training? Veora Hawkins Lundy: Well absolutely. Simple as simple. You wouldn't think of it, and I don't think I would've gone at that time even if they offered to me. Because— Felix Armfield: You would've wanted to go over there, huh? Veora Hawkins Lundy: No, no. Even after they opened it up, there's some of these people who had died in a little segregation, as an individual, and you just couldn't put up with it. So, I was happy for Flint really. Oh, it was small. They didn't give a degree, but they gave you a chance to be an RN and you could go from there. If you wanted to go to a college and get a degree. Felix Armfield: You actually had an opportunity to nurse the real sick back to health I hope. Veora Hawkins Lundy: Oh, yes! Yeah. We had to learn all the different instruments, and all this different tests, and all that sort of thing. You had to know how to know signs and symptoms, and when to report them and all that kind of thing. You had to know when to get to work. If they said eight o'clock you'd be there at eight. Of course they didn't always say four o'clock and it was four thirty and you were still there, because they needed your help. Felix Armfield: Mrs. Goods, now you finished your schooling when? Laura Jordan Goods: In 1947 from Dillard. Well, there was a two year lapse between my getting out of high school and entering the Nursing School. When I graduated, they had about five or six White diploma programs. Felix Armfield: Keep talking. Laura Jordan Goods: Like Mercy Hotel, [indistinct 00:36:05], Southern Baptist—And there's another one, I can't remember the name. I applied to all of those schools. And then I also, I'd been qualified. Felix Armfield: Right? Laura Jordan Goods: They had no picture of me, but on my transcript it said McDonogh 35. They knew that was the only school that Black folks could graduate from, so I was turned down. So after I had boyfriend and I was in love and all of this. I couldn't see my way to get out and go into Nursing School. I had been engaged for a year. Then, I decided since I was being pressured by my then boyfriend to get married, his Father came to see my Grandma and asked to marry me, to allow me to marry him. They agreed. And the first things I can remember saying, "I really don't want to get married if I can't go to Nursing School after I'm married." My father-in-law said, "If you want go to Nursing School then get up there to Nursing School in any city that you can go to. I'll see that you go." Felix Armfield: So he wanted you to marry his son? Laura Jordan Goods: Yes. Because, I was a poor girl. Now they had property and everything. But I was a girl who had been grown up the right way, and I lived down the street from him. Okay? So he agreed, and so I got married, of course, at Grace United Methodist Church. While I was waiting, I had my son, my first born— Felix Armfield: And when was this? Laura Jordan Goods: This was in 1939. My son was born in [indistinct 00:38:27]. So I was home still wanting to go to school, but I wasn't working. I was just a young housewife, living in the home with my mother-in-law and father. I read in the Louisiana Weekly, that's the Black paper. Felix Armfield: And Louisiana Weekly was around a long time. Laura Jordan Goods: Right. Said that Goodridge Hospital would be opening up a School of Nursing in September '42. I got so excited, told husband, I told my in-laws, we got in the family truck. I rest my baby. I went to this interview to see Ms. Miller. This lady from Boston had been brought here in the '40s to put together the Nursing Program. Felix Armfield: Okay. Laura Jordan Goods: She had seen my transcript. She'd seen everything in my records papers. I sat area with my husband. She said to me, "Historically, we do not accept married people in the program for Nursing. But, I will give you a chance. I'll accept you on probation. But I want you to know that you will have to abide all rules and regulations of going to our school. You may live in the ward zone, you may live in the community and take your basic core courses for the first two years, courses in education. But when it comes time to go into the clinical, the last two and half years, you must live in the dormitories. [indistinct 00:39:22] I did that. I went home on Fridays at five o'clock and I had to be back in the dormitory at eleven o'clock on Sunday. Veora Hawkins Lundy: That must have been kind of difficult. Laura Jordan Goods: It was, but I wanted it. My husband knew. And the thing about it was twenty-five dollars a quarter, which was a hundred dollars a year. Which my father-in-law paid. But, during the second part, the Cadet Corps came in. Then all of the nurses were being sent to the army and they wanted the new nurses who were graduating to fill the hospital. So the United States Cadet Nursing Corps paid my tuition, and paid for my uniform and books. We had Cadet Corps uniforms, a gray coat with the red epaulets. Veora Hawkins Lundy: Yeah. Laura Jordan Goods: Gray skirt, gray hat, and we had pin striped gray and white for the summer. So, a lot. We all inducted into the Cadet Corps with White and Black nurses at the auditorium. Felix Armfield: I think that's an interesting statement made that the woman from Boston said, "Ordinarily we don't accept married people into our Nursing Program." Laura Jordan Goods: That's what she said. Felix Armfield: But, she allowed you to be there yourself. Laura Jordan Goods: I was there on probation. So [indistinct 00:40:51]. My curriculum was different because I had two years of education courses. Just like anybody else going to a college who was a freshman in [indistinct 00:41:06]. The only difference in the Nursing students and the regular students, we took our anatomy and physiology with pre-med students. So our course is different. Then in our second year, we were given parts of our uniform. The first time we went to Flint, we had smocks. At first. Patients say, "Oh, look at all of these young women. They're all pregnant." Felix Armfield: So when you say the smocks, you're talking about the maternity top? Laura Jordan Goods: Yes. Felix Armfield: Okay. Laura Jordan Goods: Yes. And we did such things as, we gave bed baths, and we took a course in the Nursing Home called nurse [indistinct 00:41:52]. And then went and we worked in the diet kitchen and we served a tray. The next level of uniform, we got a black dress. I mean [indistinct 00:42:01] dresses, and we pinned on white cuffs and a white collar, and a white apron with black stockings and black shoes. We wore that uniform, that kind of uniform, until we finished our fundamental nursing program at Flint-Goodridge. Laura Jordan Goods: Then when we left Flint-Goodridge as juniors, we were affiliating at Charity Hospital. Then we went in there, the affiliated, we got our caps. That was added to our uniform, and our bibs. Then we knew we were on our way. It got different things [indistinct 00:42:50]. We didn't have many teachers. I mean when we started out as freshman, there was some seventy-five people. But, by the time we went admitted into the Nursing Program, they were only ten of us. There were only ten people who made it. It was just that tough. Then that good character thing was in there too that Lundy talked about, and Lundy knew Ms. Miller. And she was the personification of a lady, wasn't she? Veora Hawkins Lundy: Oh, she was. Laura Jordan Goods: She was a— Felix Armfield: Now when you say—Who was Ms. Miller? Is that— Laura Jordan Goods: Rita E. Felix Armfield: Ms. E. Miller. Laura Jordan Goods: Rita E. Miller from Boston. Felix Armfield: Okay. Laura Jordan Goods: We had her— Felix Armfield: Was she the one who told you that, "Ordinarily— Laura Jordan Goods: Yes. Felix Armfield: —we don't accept married women in our program"? Laura Jordan Goods: Yes. Felix Armfield: Now was Ms. Rita Miller, in fact, married herself? Laura Jordan Goods: Yeah. Well, she married after she retired. Felix Armfield: After she retired? Laura Jordan Goods: After 33 years, she married. Felix Armfield: Really? Laura Jordan Goods: Yeah. And then the other, I think [indistinct 00:43:51] the other Black teacher was Ms. Anna Sewall, who was a Scientist and knew all the Sciences. Ms. Miller was the Administrator and she knew all the professional courses. Ms. Sewall knew all the clinicals— Felix Armfield: Ms. Sewall. Laura Jordan Goods: Anna E. Sewall. Felix Armfield: Spell out that last name. Laura Jordan Goods: S-E-W-A-L-L. Felix Armfield: Okay. Laura Jordan Goods: Juliet Lee taught nursing arts. She was [indistinct 00:44:22]. Felix Armfield: Juliet Lee? Laura Jordan Goods: Juliet Lee. She was the youngest one, and she was flauty and fiery, but she knew was doing. [indistinct 00:44:27] while major teacher had, later on, Ms. Fredericka Jones joined the faculty and taught me at surg. Felix Armfield: Okay. She taught what now? Laura Jordan Goods: Medical surgical nursing. Felix Armfield: Okay. Laura Jordan Goods: And the nurse that taught the Nursing application, and the Black Doctors at Flint taught the Medical Clinicians. Okay? So we had— Felix Armfield: Now, who were some of those Black Doctors? Laura Jordan Goods: Some of the teaching black Doctors were Dr. Seagray, who was a pediatrician. Felix Armfield: Okay. Laura Jordan Goods: Dr. Epps, who was a surgeon. Felix Armfield: You're talking about in the early '40s when you were getting your degree. Laura Jordan Goods: Yes. And Dr. Bowers, who taught medicine, was a Harvard Graduate. Felix Armfield: Okay. Now wasn't there one person, nurse Miller—And who was the gentleman that she was—The two of them sort of worked hand in hand? Laura Jordan Goods: Dr. Dent was the president. Dr. Albert W. Dent. He was the one who said, "If we are going to have a Nursing Program, [indistinct 00:45:42] and he had a special feeling for nurses and the roles we played in the healthcare system. He decided that if there was going to be a Nursing Program for Black Women, it was going to be on a campus. It was a [indistinct 00:45:59]. So he went out and searched around for the best Black person to find, and he found Rita Miller and gave her the freedom to recruit the best faculty she could find. So, our faculty came from out of state. They came out of diploma programs. Most of them came out of diploma—