Hersey Copeland Quinn: —here really put me ahead of them. Paul Ortiz: That was both in terms of trade and academics? Hersey Copeland Quinn: Academics, right, right. Paul Ortiz: What kinds of academics subjects were taught and stressed at the high school here? Hersey Copeland Quinn: Mostly mathematics, English, history, literature, music, and even had a foreign language too, that students could study. Paul Ortiz: Yeah. During this time you were doing a lot of traveling, a lot of driving back and forth from school. Did you have experiences with segregation when you were traveling? Hersey Copeland Quinn: Oh, yes. Yes. I remember distinctly we were on our way from school one afternoon and a car passed us. And they were students from Auburn University because they had on a uniform, Auburn University uniform, and one of them threw something out and hit the side of our car when they passed. Bettie Barret Quinn: You had the accident? Hersey Copeland Quinn: No, no, that's not when I had the accident. Paul Ortiz: Would you have experiences trying to get gas or using restrooms? Hersey Copeland Quinn: Well, I didn't have any experience using restrooms 'cause I knew not to try to use them in the first place. Of course, I didn't have any experience getting gas because we bought gas at the stations that we — Well, the people knew us and we knew them and, of course, we just bought gas and that's all. But as far as using restrooms and facilities like that, we didn't try to use them because we knew better than try to use them in the first place because they wasn't going to let us use them. Plus, the fact we bought most of our gas at that time at one station, the same place. It was a service station there near home where my father where did most of his trading as far as gasoline was concerned because that's where I bought our gas. Bettie Barret Quinn: Cleveland, he's still interviewing. Would you— Paul Ortiz: What was that a Black-owned business? Hersey Copeland Quinn: That's White-owned. Bettie Barret Quinn: Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Paul Ortiz: Were there ever times during those years when you or somebody else you knew, perhaps one of your friends would just get fed up with all of these rules about segregation and perhaps maybe go over the line and violate or push those at some point? Hersey Copeland Quinn: I definitely got fed up with it, but I didn't go over the line as you said, because well, I knew how far to go. I knew if I had gone any further, I knew what the consequences were, so I tried to avoid that. Paul Ortiz: Yeah. Did you know of any other people who might have stepped over some of those boundaries or just out of anger or just out of, during the '30s? Hersey Copeland Quinn: No. Most of the people during that time knew about how far to go. Of course, they just didn't go any further because they knew if they had gone any further or stepped over a bound they knew what the consequences were and, of course, they didn't want to deal with it. Paul Ortiz: Mrs. Quinn, in your latter high school years, did you have any particular kinds of aspirations for a certain kind of career or calling? Bettie Barret Quinn: Yes. I wanted to go into nursing, which I did. Paul Ortiz: Did you go to specialized nursing school after high school? Bettie Barret Quinn: Yes. L. Richardson School of Nursing. Paul Ortiz: Richardson School of Nursing. Bettie Barret Quinn: L. Richardson. Paul Ortiz: Oral Richardson? Bettie Barret Quinn: L— L. Richardson School of Nursing in Greensboro, North Carolina. Paul Ortiz: What year did you start there? Bettie Barret Quinn: 1947. I graduated in 1950. Paul Ortiz: I don't know much about Richardson school. Is this publicly funded or—? Bettie Barret Quinn: It was a private school, I think. Paul Ortiz: Was that set up by a church? Bettie Barret Quinn: I think so. Paul Ortiz: Seems like it might have been quite a move from Pitt County. Bettie Barret Quinn: It was, but it was not hard adjusting because you see, and at that time in the school of nursing, we went to school year-round. 1085 days for four years. You would get a week or so of vacation per year to go home. But it was not like college school now that you go nine months and out three months. We went year-round. Paul Ortiz: Would you do practice nursing at a hospital in Greensboro? Bettie Barret Quinn: L. Richardson School of Nursing was a hospital. Paul Ortiz: Oh, [indistinct 00:08:12] Bettie Barret Quinn: Hospital connected. Paul Ortiz: I see. Bettie Barret Quinn: See, we would have to go over to A&T for some subjects. There was a Lutheran school that we would go there for some subjects that was not offer at our school, and also Bennett College. If we didn't go to the schools for the subjects, the instructor would come to our school, it was the subjects that you needed. Paul Ortiz: What was the training like? Bettie Barret Quinn: It was nice. It was more really, you pay $75, if I can remember correctly entrance fee. You had to buy your books and uniform, but your working and everything helped defray your expense for going to school. Paul Ortiz: Now, you were coming into the profession at quite a unique period of time because you experienced, when you began your career— You began your career as an LPN or a—? Bettie Barret Quinn: Registered, as a RN. Paul Ortiz: As an RN, okay. At the beginning of your career, the hospitals are strictly segregated. Bettie Barret Quinn: Yes. Paul Ortiz: Then towards the end of your career, they were— Bettie Barret Quinn: They were still segregated. 'Cause now we even went over to, I can't think of the name of the White nursing school, we went over there and had classes with the White students. The classes, some that was not offered at our school in Greensboro. See, after graduating from high school, I could not get into a nursing school for two years after graduating from high school because they all was filled. I had to wait two years before I could get in school. Paul Ortiz: I see. So once you became a registered nurse, where did you go to begin? Bettie Barret Quinn: I was here. Paul Ortiz: Oh, okay. Bettie Barret Quinn: See, for my school, they did not offer psychiatric— They had psychiatric patients, but they did not offer psychiatric nursing. So we had to affiliate, come here to Tuskegee, to the VA hospital for psychiatric affiliation. Paul Ortiz: Oh, I see. Bettie Barret Quinn: This is where I came for psychiatric affiliation. Paul Ortiz: So you worked here at the VA hospital? Bettie Barret Quinn: I came here as a student for 90 days for training in psychiatric nursing. Then after that, I went back to school and I graduated. While I was here, I met him as a student. Then after graduation, I married and came back. Paul Ortiz: Okay, and then you came back to work at the VA hospital? Bettie Barret Quinn: I worked at the school hospital on the campus. Hersey Copeland Quinn: John Andrew Hospital. Bettie Barret Quinn: John Andrew Hospital. I worked there first before going to VA. Paul Ortiz: Okay, and you worked there for about? Bettie Barret Quinn: Oh, about two-and-a-half years. Paul Ortiz: Two-and-a-half years. So Mr. Quinn, what were you doing at this time? Hersey Copeland Quinn: Okay. Well, after finishing high school, well, my parents were not able to send me to college, so, well I worked, I was out about maybe a year or so. The air base was just beginning out here. It's called Tuskegee Army Air Base at that time. So I worked there for about, I guess, a year, a year-and-a-half, something like that. But I worked in the canteen service, and I finally became canteen manager. Hersey Copeland Quinn: I was managing the canteen and, of course, I got drafted into the service because the draft was still on then, so I was drafted into the military. Of course, I stayed in the service. This is in World War II. I was in service about three-and-a-half years. I was inducted at Fort Benning. I went from there to Camp Gruber, Oklahoma. We did maneuvers in Louisiana. While we were in Louisiana, I was sent from there to the school up in Savanna, Illinois, at Savanna Ordnance Depot. After I finished my tour of schooling there, I went back to my outfit in Oklahoma and we transferred, well, we were sent overseas to England. Paul Ortiz: What unit was this? Hersey Copeland Quinn: This was 637 Ordnance Ammunition Company. We spent seven months in England and, of course, we made the D-Day invasion. We made the invasion attached to the 29th Infantry. My outfit didn't land, didn't get off our ship by D-Day, we were out there because we left, well, we pulled out from where we were. Maybe I should retro that a little. Hersey Copeland Quinn: When we were getting ready to make invasion, we had been told that we would probably invade Europe from the France area, but they didn't tell us when. So we were in training in England, and we would go on road marches. So when we would leave we would take all our equipment. So this time when we were on the road march, we didn't know whether we was coming back or not, and we didn't come back. We went down the road, just a little ordinary road. It was finally turned into a dirt road, went down to the channel and there was a ship there, LST. Hersey Copeland Quinn: This LST, the bottom could, well, it had a door that could drop down and, of course, vehicles could drive in. So we boarded this LST and all our vehicles, they drove them into the ship. We sat on that ship for a solid week, doing nothing but we would eat and go up on deck for calisthenics and that's all. So one day, the ship pulled out about 7 o'clock in the morning right after breakfast. Hersey Copeland Quinn: We sailed up the channel for about an hour and we turned around and came back and went back into the same place. The next morning, we sailed out about the same time, but that time we didn't come back. As we would go along, other ships would come out from various little nooks and join us. So around noon that day, we had a fleet ships just as far as you could see either way. We sailed up the channel at a very slow pace. When night came, we were still sailing along. So I went to sleep. So some time that morning before day, I guess around 2 or 3 o'clock, I woke up and, of course, the ship had stopped. Hersey Copeland Quinn: I could hear artillery, guns shooting, so we were anticipating we might have been going into something like that. So when daylight came, we look around and just as far as we could see, nothing but ships. So we stayed in the channel all day that day. Ships would pull in to unload. We attempted to unload about, I guess, maybe around 3 or 4 o'clock in the afternoon, and we were getting off in waves. A group would get off on a landing barge and go into the beach, and then another group would get off and go in. So many of our troops got killed off the ship that I was on until around, I guess, around maybe 5 or 6 o'clock, some time just before dark, we got orders not to get off, and we wouldn't get off until the next day. So we pulled back a little further out into the channel, and we spent that night on the ship. So we got off the next day, which was the 7th of June. Hersey Copeland Quinn: Of course, we went on up through Normandy on through, and of course, I was in the Battle of Bastogne too. When the 101st Airborne was trapped. At that time, we were supporting the — Well, I was an Ordnance Ammunition Company, I don't know whether I say that or not. But we were supporting at that time the 101st Airborne along with other divisions. Now, my outfit usually operated about, well, our SOPs operate approximately from three to five miles behind the artillery. The setup then, I don't know whether it's like that now in the military, but the infantry was up front. The artillery was about behind the infantry, maybe about two or three miles behind the infantry. Of course, we were from three to five miles behind the artillery. Hersey Copeland Quinn: So when the 101st Airborne got trapped at Bastogne, we were between the Germans that trapped the 101st Airborne. I mean, the Germans that trapped the 101st Airborne were between us and the 25th Infantry. I guess they didn't try to include us in the trap because we were only ammunition company and they wanted to try to knock out the 101st Airborne. But anyway, this was Christmas Eve 1944, and, of course, that was the last major battle that we had with the Germans and we got out of that. Later on, the war ended, and so I was discharged and I came back home. So the GI Bill had passed, and I had planned to go to school 'cause I wanted to go to college before going in service, but I wasn't financially able. So I had planned to enroll here at Tuskegee, but Tuskegee was on a quarter basis then. I was discharged in December and I planned to enter school the spring quarter, which was going to begin in March. Hersey Copeland Quinn: But during that time, I didn't have anything to do, so I decided, well, I should try to do something to have some financial income, so I went to work at the Veterans' Hospital. So after going to work there, I didn't enroll in college in March as I had planned to. I decided to just work until September. So I worked there until September. By that time, I changed my mind about enrolling in Tuskegee. I decided I wanted to be a doctor. So having even seen some of the doctors out there and some experience with me and talked with them and so forth. So I enrolled at the Morehouse College in a pre-medical course, and I stayed there two years, did two years there. I came back to Tuskegee and went back to work at the Veterans' Hospital. Well, while I was working there, I also enrolled in school at Tuskegee. It was Tuskegee Institute then, so I enrolled in college there. Bettie Barret Quinn: So you worked and attended college? Hersey Copeland Quinn: Yeah. Yeah. I worked in winter and attended college at the same time. Paul Ortiz: What course of study were you following or doing at Tuskegee? Hersey Copeland Quinn: I had a major in science and a minor in mathematics. Paul Ortiz: At a time you were planning to go to medical school or— Hersey Copeland Quinn: Well, no, I had given up medical school then because I had a family, and I decided that it would be too expensive for me to try to go to medical school then. Paul Ortiz: One question about your military career or experience. I assume that you were in a segregated unit. Hersey Copeland Quinn: Right, I was. Now, we had White commissioned officers, but our non-commissioned officers were not White. We had a Black first sergeant and all of other enlisted men who were Black, but our commissioned officers were White. Paul Ortiz: Did you witness cases of discrimination against Black soldiers in the Army during those years? Hersey Copeland Quinn: Yes, not particularly in my outfit. I said my outfit, I mean as far as the White officers and the soldiers in my outfit, but the units were segregated. We had all Blacks in my outfit except the White commissioned officers and other outfits that were all White. Of course, they had the White enlisted men and White officers. In the camps, we had segregation. We had Black service clubs, White service clubs. I believe the posts changed were segregated too. I'm not certain now. It's been so long, but I think they were segregated. Paul Ortiz: So now both of you are in Tuskegee after World War II. Were you both at the VA hospital when you first met or—? Bettie Barret Quinn: Yes. Hersey Copeland Quinn: I was working at the VA hospital when she came there as a student. Paul Ortiz: So really, it was really quite by accident that you first met. Hersey Copeland Quinn: Right. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Paul Ortiz: Did you one of you notice the other first, or did you meet each other at a social event? Hersey Copeland Quinn: Well, I was working in the office that she had to process through and, of course, that's when we met. Paul Ortiz: Oh. Now, before you married, did you have to go back to your families to get an okay or take each other to meet your families? Hersey Copeland Quinn: No. No. Paul Ortiz: So you married here at Tuskegee. Hersey Copeland Quinn: No, because she was here on affiliation as a student, and she went back to North Carolina to finish. After she finished there, we got married in North Carolina. Paul Ortiz: Oh, okay. Did you live North Carolina for a while or—? Hersey Copeland Quinn: No, I just went up there and we got married, and then we came back here to live. Paul Ortiz: Oh, I see. Okay. So this would've been about 1950 that you came back? Hersey Copeland Quinn: Yeah. Right. Paul Ortiz: Now, what was Tuskegee like in 1950? Now at this time, were you back in living in Greenwood or were you living in—? Hersey Copeland Quinn: Oh, no. At that time, well, when we first got married, we lived in, well, a place called Simmons Gardens. Bettie Barret Quinn: Macon Gardens now. Hersey Copeland Quinn: It's Macon Gardens now. You say you interviewed Sandy McCorvey before coming here? Paul Ortiz: Yeah. Hersey Copeland Quinn: Okay. When you were coming here, where you turn, there's a traffic light, you turned left the traffic light to come here. If you had turned right that way would've taken you in the area where we live when we first got married. Paul Ortiz: Oh, That's on Josephine Street, or— Hersey Copeland Quinn: No, it's— Bettie Barret Quinn: No. Hersey Copeland Quinn: I believe it's Patterson Street, isn't it? Bettie Barret Quinn: It's Patterson Street. Hersey Copeland Quinn: Patterson Street. Bettie Barret Quinn: Right there, right there. Hersey Copeland Quinn: Yeah. Yeah. Bettie Barret Quinn: Right off of Patterson Street. Hersey Copeland Quinn: Yeah. Paul Ortiz: So that was the first place the you lived? Bettie Barret Quinn: Yes. Hersey Copeland Quinn: Yes. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Paul Ortiz: Okay. Bettie Barret Quinn: We lived there from September to May— Hersey Copeland Quinn: To May. Bettie Barret Quinn: —because they were building the house. Hersey Copeland Quinn: Yeah, then we moved here. Paul Ortiz: Oh, okay. Hersey Copeland Quinn: They were building this house here and we moved here after it was complete. Paul Ortiz: Was this an area on Culvert Street— Now was this an area in the '50s that was expanding rapidly for Black families? Paul Ortiz: Yes. In fact, it was started in the '50s. This was all woods prior to that. They cut this street down through here. When we moved here, they were only— Bettie Barret Quinn: Five houses [indistinct 00:30:48]. Hersey Copeland Quinn: Five houses on this street— Bettie Barret Quinn: Up above us. The houses [indistinct 00:30:52]. Hersey Copeland Quinn: But this house and the house next door were only houses down here in this area. Paul Ortiz: How did you make the decision to move back here? Hersey Copeland Quinn: Well, we needed some place to live because we were renting over in, what was it, Patterson— Paul Ortiz: Summer's Garden. Hersey Copeland Quinn: Summer's Garden. So we wanted a house of our own, and this was a place that had just began to build up. In fact, it was the only area like this where they were building the new houses at that time. Paul Ortiz: At that time, were you on a Black [indistinct 00:31:55] apartment? Was it financed? Did you go to a local bank for financing? Hersey Copeland Quinn: Yes. Excuse me. Well, under the GI Bill, they had a method of helping veterans finance homes, so I financed this under the GI Bill. Paul Ortiz: Now, what was life like in Tuskegee for you during the 1950s? I guess, in terms of social life? Hersey Copeland Quinn: Well, life, it was good here then. Tuskegee back during that time and immediately prior to that time was really good as far as social life was concerned. Well, see, first of all, we had the air base out here. Was the air base still there when you came here? No, it just closed. Yeah. Okay. During World War II, we had a air base here where Black pilots were trained, in fact, the first Black pilots. Hersey Copeland Quinn: As a matter of fact, I tried to get in flight school, but, well, first of all, my parents didn't want me to fly and they wouldn't sign the papers for me to try to get in flight school. But Tuskegee, at that time was, it's real promising. There were a lot of prominent Blacks here. Those who didn't live here, a lot of them came through here for various things in connection with either the university or the air base, which was here at that time. You've probably heard of Chappie James, I imagine? Paul Ortiz: Just a little bit. Hersey Copeland Quinn: Yeah. He was trained here. In fact, he married a girl from here. His home was in Pensacola, Florida, but he married a girl from here. Bettie Barret Quinn: Who was that? Hersey Copeland Quinn: Chappie James, he was the first Black four-star general in the Air Force. Paul Ortiz: So Mrs. Quinn, at this time, during the '50s, were you working at the VA Hospital or John Andrews? Bettie Barret Quinn: In the '50s? Paul Ortiz: Yeah. Bettie Barret Quinn: I worked at the John Andrew in 1951 to 1953. Paul Ortiz: Okay. Bettie Barret Quinn: In September of '53, I went to VA. Paul Ortiz: Okay. Bettie Barret Quinn: Which I worked until June '84. Paul Ortiz: Now, some people have told us about the Syphilis Experiment that was happening at— Bettie Barret Quinn: I was not there during that. Paul Ortiz: Okay, that was after. Bettie Barret Quinn: They were finishing that up when I came here as a student. Paul Ortiz: Okay. Bettie Barret Quinn: Isn't that correct? Hersey Copeland Quinn: Yeah. Bettie Barret Quinn: Because I don't remember them testing anyone for syphilis or treating anyone. Hersey Copeland Quinn: I was here during that time, of course, none of my people involved with it. But I do remember some of the persons that were involved, some of the physicians, nurses, and so forth. I didn't know what was happening then. But since everything came to light, and I began to read about it, I recall some of the names of those people. I recall some of the things that, well, they used to go around to the schools and so forth giving shots and injections and things. Bettie Barret Quinn: [indistinct 00:36:54] syphilis? Hersey Copeland Quinn: I know some of them were connected with the syphilis, some of the same persons I were connected with syphilis— Bettie Barret Quinn: A public health nurse? Hersey Copeland Quinn: I know it. But some of those same people worked with this syphilis thing after I started reading about it. Bettie Barret Quinn: You had referenced one public health nurse. She was a [indistinct 00:37:16] Hersey Copeland Quinn: No. No. Bettie Barret Quinn: No? Hersey Copeland Quinn: No. No. Several of those names that were mentioned that I read about in connection with this syphilis case. They apparently worked along with the public health nurses, because I know one doctor was Dr. Miller. I remember him distinctly that worked with it, and they used to come around giving— Reading it in later years when they finally came to light and I started read and about it, it appeared to me that they disguised what they were doing through public health, through the public health nurse. That's the way it appeared to me from what I read and remembering the names of some of the people who were working with it. Bettie Barret Quinn: [indistinct 00:38:26] Hersey Copeland Quinn: Huh? Bettie Barret Quinn: [indistinct 00:38:27] Hersey Copeland Quinn: That may not be true now, but that was the impression I got when I read about it in later years and recognized some of the names of some of the persons that were involved. Bettie Barret Quinn: Some of the public health nurses work with the VA with it. Hersey Copeland Quinn: Well, maybe so. Bettie Barret Quinn: [indistinct 00:38:48] Paul Ortiz: Mrs. Quinn, do you have a different recollection or a different interpretation? Bettie Barret Quinn: I don't want to discuss it. Hersey Copeland Quinn: Well see, I was here then. She wasn't here then. That happened when I was growing up. I was a youngster growing up at that time of course. She was in North Carolina. I didn't know what was happening until in recent years when it finally came to light and they started publishing it. When I started reading about it, I remembered some of the names of the people that were working here at that time. I remember them going around to the communities and what they were doing and so forth. But I didn't know that they were working with this syphilis case or anything. Paul Ortiz: What was social life like in Tuskegee? Where would you go say, in your spare time, or if you had spare time, events? Hersey Copeland Quinn: Well— Bettie Barret Quinn: When I first came here every other week, there were always different fraternities and sororities having big bands coming to Tuskegee, like Cab, am I my right? Cab Calloway and all those— Hersey Copeland Quinn: Yeah. Cab Calloway, all the big bands came here. Bettie Barret Quinn: We would get invitations to the dances and things. Paul Ortiz: Where would those be held at? Bettie Barret Quinn: What was the name of the place? Hersey Copeland Quinn: There was a place called the Propeller Club at that time. Bettie Barret Quinn: That was owned by the Bulls? Hersey Copeland Quinn: Yeah. Paul Ortiz: That was— Hersey Copeland Quinn: Of course, the air base was here then too, so that— Bettie Barret Quinn: The air base wasn't here when I came in. Hersey Copeland Quinn: Well, it had just closed, and prior to that it was here. It started when the air base was here. Paul Ortiz: But the Propeller Club was out where the air base used to be or— Bettie Barret Quinn: Mm-mm. Paul Ortiz: —no? Bettie Barret Quinn: Off of Patterson. Paul Ortiz: Oh. Is there a building still there that, is that building still there? Hersey Copeland Quinn: No, no it burned. Bettie Barret Quinn: It burned. Hersey Copeland Quinn: Burned. Paul Ortiz: Oh. But that was considered to be a very popular place to go, the Propeller Club? Hersey Copeland Quinn: Right. That's right. Yeah. Bettie Barret Quinn: We had other activities there too. Social activities. Hersey Copeland Quinn: Yeah. Paul Ortiz: What kind of social activities? Dances? Hersey Copeland Quinn: Dances and theatrical programs. Quite a few of the actors came here at that time, Lena Horne. Oh, quite a few of them. Paul Ortiz: Would they be at the Institute? Hersey Copeland Quinn: They have been to the Propeller Club and of course, the Institute too. But the Propeller, this place had a large— Bettie Barret Quinn: Auditorium. Hersey Copeland Quinn: —auditorium, and of course, quite a few entertains entertained there. Paul Ortiz: What was the relationship between the Institute and the community, say, over here? Would you go to events held at the Institute? Hersey Copeland Quinn: Oh, yeah. Yeah. Most so then than now, I would say, because years ago and back during time when I was growing up, and of course even since then, the only swimming pool we had was at the Institute. Of course, all of the kids went up there to swim. The Whites had a swimming pool, but they wouldn't let us swim there, so we had to swim at the Institute. So swimming pool, which is the university now. Paul Ortiz: Did— Oh, I'm sorry, Mrs. Quinn. Bettie Barret Quinn: They organized the little league baseball teams and all during that— Hersey Copeland Quinn: Oh, yeah. Yeah. Bettie Barret Quinn: We had, was it four groups? Greenwood, Greensboro— Hersey Copeland Quinn: Yeah. Bettie Barret Quinn: Rockefeller, Zion Hill. Hersey Copeland Quinn: We had a little league baseball league and there was several teams. Of course, at the end of the season, they had a playoff for a championship. It was quite a bit of activity in that time. Bettie Barret Quinn: A lot of parents and different organizations sponsored the teams and bought the uniforms and all. Because we had three sons that participated. Paul Ortiz: That was a major activity at that time— Bettie Barret Quinn: Yeah. Paul Ortiz: Okay. Bettie Barret Quinn: For the young children. Paul Ortiz: They were ran primarily by the parents? Hersey Copeland Quinn: Yes. Bettie Barret Quinn: And different organizations, because what happened, like Mr. Hooten, he was one of the officials. Hersey Copeland Quinn: Yeah, but he was a parent too. Bettie Barret Quinn: Yeah. Hersey Copeland Quinn: The parents was operating it. Now, however, organizations would help furnish uniforms, baseballs, and things like that bats because there was no source for equipment and uniforms and things like that. So either the parents had to furnish it or the organization would furnish it. Bettie Barret Quinn: That's when it first started we had to do that— Hersey Copeland Quinn: Yeah. Bettie Barret Quinn: —furnish it, but later years they started— Hersey Copeland Quinn: Oh yeah, yeah. In later years— Bettie Barret Quinn: They started furnishing these things for them. Hersey Copeland Quinn: Yeah. Bettie Barret Quinn: Because we had, what was it? Two sons, we purchased their uniforms and everything that they had to use to begin with. When the third son wanted to play and he stayed out—