WEBVTT 1 00:01.000 --> 00:04.000 You want me to sign on both lines? 2 00:04.000 --> 00:14.000 Right here. Mrs. Branch, for the tape, could you state your full name and date of birth please? 3 00:14.000 --> 00:26.000 My full name is Lanetha Jule Collins Branch. My birthdate is January twenty-second, 1935. 4 00:26.000 --> 00:28.000 Mrs. Branch, when did you come to Memphis? 5 00:28.000 --> 00:29.000 I've always lived in Memphis. 6 00:29.000 --> 00:30.000 You were born here? 7 00:30.000 --> 00:32.000 Yes, I was born here. 8 00:32.000 --> 00:36.000 What are your earliest childhood memories of Memphis? 9 00:36.000 --> 01:05.000 Well, the earliest childhood memories of Memphis was right in this neighborhood where you have LeMoyne-Owen College. We lived right down the street from LeMoyne College. The street before being named Hollis Price was called McDowell, and we had to move from McDowell when they built the LeMoyne Gardens housing project, they tore down our house and so we relocated to another area. 10 01:05.000 --> 01:05.000 When was that, ma'am? 11 01:05.000 --> 01:07.000 I guess about 1941. 12 01:07.000 --> 01:07.000 You were about six when they moved? 13 01:07.000 --> 01:07.000 Yes. 14 01:07.000 --> 01:08.000 Do you have any memories of that neighborhood at that time before you moved? 15 01:08.000 --> 01:47.000 The neighborhood prior to LeMoyne Gardens being built was a residential area, had very large houses, nice yards. It was a good family community. People were a working class people, church going people also, I might add. So it was basically a very good neighborhood. 16 01:47.000 --> 01:49.000 Were you at that time a member of Metropolitan Baptist Church? 17 01:49.000 --> 02:08.000 No, I was not at that time. I was a member of White Stone Baptist Church, which was my mother's church, which was located on what I called Long Avenue. It's not too far, I would say it's about eight to ten blocks from here. 18 02:08.000 --> 02:17.000 Ma'am, after you all left the street that's Hollis Price now, where did you relocate? 19 02:17.000 --> 03:04.000 We moved to 274 West Illinois, which is farther west, near the river. We moved into an integrated neighborhood. I better take that back, it was not integrated, it was an all White neighborhood when we moved there, quite difficult most of the time for many years. I was six years old when we moved to that area and I was getting ready for college when we left that neighborhood. It also was torn down to make way for the expressway. So therefore, basically during my childhood we lived only at two residences. 20 03:04.000 --> 03:06.000 What was the street again that became Hollis Price? 21 03:06.000 --> 03:14.000 It was called McDowell. 22 03:14.000 --> 03:18.000 McDowell. Ma'am, do you have any memories of your grandparents? Did you ever meet them? 23 03:18.000 --> 03:22.000 No, my grandparents were deceased before I was born. 24 03:22.000 --> 03:26.000 What did your parents tell you about them? 25 03:26.000 --> 03:52.000 My grandfather was a laborer and my grandmother was a business woman, but they preceded in death before I was born. As not unusual, African Americans did not have long lifetimes, probably up through the 1940s the lifespan was quite short. 26 03:52.000 --> 03:56.000 You said your grandmother was a business woman? 27 03:56.000 --> 03:56.000 Yes. 28 03:56.000 --> 03:57.000 What kind of— 29 03:57.000 --> 04:03.000 She did hair, she was a beautician. 30 04:03.000 --> 04:04.000 Do you know what part of the city was she located here in— 31 04:04.000 --> 04:13.000 Yes she was, but I don't know what part of the city. 32 04:13.000 --> 04:19.000 What else do you remember about your home and your neighbor's homes, on both McDowell and West Illinois? 33 04:19.000 --> 04:57.000 Well, on McDowell of course, as I said, it was a family-oriented community with children of all ages and a relatively quiet neighborhood. As I can remember it, we often did what most children did, played in the summertime and after school, then most times inside before it was dark. That was something that happened most times in most communities, you had to be inside before it was dark. And contrasting the McDowell residents with the Illinois residents, quite different. 34 04:57.000 --> 05:48.000 As I said, we integrated the neighborhood and racially it was quite difficult. My mother knew one woman on the street and of course that was her support system on that street. And I also had White friends, well, playmates, I better put it like that. So they're quite different. Some of their parents taught them the nigger word was used quite frequently, as you can imagine. But some parents taught their children that that term referred to anyone of any race who was bad, but yet some equated it with African Americans. So the neighborhood was quite unique in that some parents accepted us quite readily and others did not. 35 05:48.000 --> 05:52.000 When you say it was difficult for your family— 36 05:52.000 --> 06:43.000 Probably not as difficult for me as my older brother, who is now deceased, and older sisters, who one, which is now deceased. My brother that is now deceased was quite, I would not say timid, but he was not a person who wanted any trouble at all, because of his demeanor. He often ran home and threatened. My sister, who is deceased however, was just the opposite. They would call her sometimes Aunt Jemima. And of course she was very tomboyish and so she'd beat them up and it was quite different. I had a younger brother who was also one of those fighters, and so they didn't bother him too much either. 37 06:43.000 --> 07:36.000 Neighborhoods in the south, at that time, were unusual and quite different than they are today, because it would not be unusual for you to find a street or an area where all Blacks lived, and right next to it all Whites lived in that situation. So even though on side streets there were some Blacks on, west of us on one street, about five houses, they were all Black. Then around another corner, you had a Black area, but it was not unusual during that time to find areas, little pockets, almost a patchwork area, if you could think of a patchwork quilt, one quilt part would be Black and the other would be White. And that was not unusual all over the south in that area in that time. So therefore you had relationships with Whites in that manner as far as neighborhoods concerned. 38 07:36.000 --> 07:43.000 Now this neighborhood around the college, LeMoyne College, was it like a patchwork quilt? 39 07:43.000 --> 08:15.000 At the time, when I lived here, most of this area was all Black. Prior to that time, however, there had been the same type of setting, but as I remember it, and of course I'll have to say that we were not allowed to go too far away. I can say we went to school and in this particular area it was predominantly Black. 40 08:15.000 --> 08:17.000 You said you weren't allowed too far away. 41 08:17.000 --> 08:57.000 Well, one thing in that area, I can say the farthest east of here that I would've gone would be Neptune Street, which is the beginning of LeMoyne Gardens. And then I went to school, the school was called LaRose Elementary School, which is on Wellington Street. And of course in this community we did not go beyond I would say Mississippi Boulevard— I'm sorry, Walker Avenue, which is right out here, to the south. And no further than I would dare say about what is now called Crump. It was our street then. 42 08:57.000 --> 09:36.000 But after the bridge was built, it was named after a former mayor in Memphis. And that was probably as far as we would go, unless we were accompanied to the Bill Street area to a movie or something like that. But most times we went right up the street, there was a movie theater right up on Walker Avenue and Mississippi called Ace Theater. And so therefore you really didn't have a need to go too far out of your community at that time. 43 09:36.000 --> 09:39.000 So sometimes you did go down to Bill Street? 44 09:39.000 --> 09:40.000 Yes, we did. 45 09:40.000 --> 09:42.000 What do you remember of Bill Street? 46 09:42.000 --> 10:22.000 Bill Street? Well, I've always remembered Bill Street as a place that had different scents. Because of the restaurants that were there and the food, some of the food would be all the way down the street that we went. Sometimes there they would have an amateur night at the theater called the Palace Theater. In fact, Rufus Thomas was one of the early MCs there. And he had a friend that was called Bones, and they would do comedy sketches at the Palace Theater. And so many people left in their own neighborhoods and went there for the amateur night. 47 10:22.000 --> 10:31.000 Now were there, at various places, where there were, quote, unquote, "Jim Crow accommodations" at some of the places? 48 10:31.000 --> 11:29.000 Yes, all the theaters that were what we call Main Street at that time had Jim Crow accommodations. You'd have to go in the side door or on a alleyway. The only one really had a side door, and then some did not have any Jim Crow accommodations at all. They were all White. Basically, as I remember, there were three theaters that had Jim Crow accommodations, the Macro Theater, which is the Orpheum now. And I guess that was the only one that you went to the side door on the street, where there was actually the street, the others were on alleyways. Then you had the theater, the Warner Theater, that you went into the side. And the other one, I can't remember because we very seldom went there to that particular one. It was near what is now Gilson and the Mall. And I can't remember because we very seldom went there. 49 11:29.000 --> 11:32.000 Mrs. Branch, what was your first job? 50 11:32.000 --> 12:08.000 My very first job was when I was eighteen years old. It lasted for one day. (laughs) When you get out of high school, you think you going work for the summer before going off to college. And I went to a restaurant, it was on Summer Avenue called, I think it was Ferguson's. I think it still exists in some kind of shape or form now. And of course I had always been taught by my mother, because of the neighborhood we lived in, because we were the first Blacks there, that we were not better than anyone else, but we were as good as anyone else. 51 12:08.000 --> 12:48.000 And so therefore, I might have had a different concept of Black and White than others. And of course my mother considered me her rebel child. I was not a fighter, but I would do things that she felt one day I'd get in trouble with doing, such as drinking out of White water fountains and these type things, I'd do that for spite. But it was at a restaurant, I was to be a bus girl. And the owner was upset because I wouldn't say, "Yes, ma'am." I said "Yes" and "No." And she said, I must call her, "Yes, ma'am." and I told her I could not do that. And so I worked for one day. That was my very first job. I'll never forget it. 52 12:48.000 --> 12:51.000 After that, did you work anymore that summer before you— 53 12:51.000 --> 13:39.000 No, I didn't. The very next job I had was really at my foster aunt's restaurant. She would let me work during the summer times when I was out of school. And it was a waitress job, and I worked there. My mother at first did not like that, because my mother did not want me to work in a restaurant. Of course, it was the safest place for me because that was her dear friend and she considered me her niece. And of course I would work there and I'd always have to go back— After I'd wait on someone I'd have to go back and sit in the corner beside her, because she didn't allow any of the men to talk to me anything unless I knew them. And of course she'd always send me home in a taxi, there was certain taxi driver she'd call to send me home at night. So that was my only other job I had other than when I then moved into education. Those were only two jobs I had. 54 13:39.000 --> 13:41.000 Do you remember the name of that restaurant? 55 13:41.000 --> 13:46.000 It was called Bulo's Tavern. Quite well known in this area. 56 13:46.000 --> 13:48.000 Where was it located? 57 13:48.000 --> 13:54.000 It was located on Hernandez Street, right near Linden Avenue. 58 13:54.000 --> 13:57.000 Now why did your mother call you her rebel child? 59 13:57.000 --> 14:47.000 Well, because of the fact that I would do things that— During the time of Jim Crow, it was just unthinkable that you would drink out of White water fountains in the department stores. And I would do that. And anywhere, when I see that, I would automatically— But the thing I'd do is get the little cups, I used to have these little cups that fold up and I refuse to drink out of the fountain. I'd get me a cup and get the water out of the fountain. And the thing that, yes ma'am, no ma'am, or this type thing, I just didn't do it. Because the fact she had said that I wasn't better than anyone else, but I was good as anyone else. And I felt that if I must do this, then they have to do that for me too. And so she would always say that I was her one child with a stop sign. 60 14:47.000 --> 15:36.000 I guess my activeness, if she had lived, she would not be surprised at it at all. I can recall my first going off to college at Fisk University, probably the first sit-in that occurred was not written, but a group of us were coming home for Thanksgiving and we decided we were not going to get at the back of the bus. That was 1953. And of course the bus did not move. And the bus driver said he was going to call the police. Well, I still didn't move, because my mother would've driven up and got me. And she would not have been surprised I had been arrested for sitting-in and she probably wouldn't have, because I used to do that on the buses here. I would not give up and give up my seat. I would sit in an area that I felt was middle of the bus and if the bus was crowded, there was another seat I would not get up. 61 15:36.000 --> 16:09.000 And so she would not have been surprised. But I guess some of my classmates got a little afraid on it. And so they convinced us all to get up. But we went back to college, there was an instructor at LeMoyne— I'm sorry, at Fisk University called Lee Lorch. Of course, anyone who sought to write injustices at that time were called communists. And of course we met with Lee Lorch, and I don't remember the other doctor that was there, to talk about what we had experienced coming home for Thanksgiving. 62 16:09.000 --> 16:52.000 I left Fisk after the first semester because of illness and came home. And then I spent a year and a half here at LeMoyne, before going to University of Arkansas. But those were the things that you would see and, sometimes you refused to eat because you could not get food services and what have you, you didn't have restroom facilities and what have you. I just always felt that those things were wrong and I would voice those opinions. So I think this is why she would probably say I was her rebel child because I did not conform to the status quo. 63 16:52.000 --> 17:00.000 Well ma'am, you said for you this incident in '53 of not sitting back of the bus was not a new thing that you had done [indistinct 00:17:00]— 64 17:00.000 --> 17:34.000 No, I said in public buses, in the south, no matter how far back you sat, if a White person got on the bus and there was not a seat for them and you were sitting in a seat, you were to get up and let them have the seat. And so I had done that on the buses here, in Memphis, not getting up. I think when they think of you as a child that you don't know what you're doing, but I knew exactly what I was doing. 65 17:34.000 --> 17:36.000 How old were you? 66 17:36.000 --> 17:45.000 I was about twelve. Eleven, twelve years old. And the bus came right by our house. The bus driver told my mother that I did it. Nothing. 67 17:45.000 --> 17:48.000 Repercussions? 68 17:48.000 --> 17:53.000 Nothing. It was nothing. She just told him, "Thank you very much." And that was all. 69 17:53.000 --> 18:17.000 I'm really interested in this because I think you've hit on something that is missing on the history books in that this kind of activism is placed in a timeframe, maybe starting in '56 with Montgomery, maybe starting in '63 in Greensboro. We really don't have an understanding that these types of things were going on before that— 70 18:17.000 --> 19:01.000 You had isolation incidents of things all along before that time. Then our chronicle, nothing came forward. In fact, in our own city, we had a number of boycotts prior to that time that might not be in a history book. For example, the Commercial Appeal. Commercial Appeal was boycotted by Black people twice. And one prior to the one in 1956, because of their refusal to refer to Black females as "Mrs." and Black people did not take the newspaper. One paper was bought was passed all over our neighborhood. 71 19:01.000 --> 19:47.000 And so everybody who wanted to read the paper who was Black could read the newspaper, but everybody ended their subscription. And these things are not things that you found a great deal about. In fact, they were not noted even in the newspaper itself. But it did occur all over this area. Somewhere someone wrote about it, but those are the kinds of things that occurred. The same thing within the bus segregation here as well. And so there have been incidences in some places where these things have occurred, but yet they seem to the wider population that's just things on the good of somebody's heart of doing and they were not from the goodness of somebody's heart, somebody agitated for them. 72 19:47.000 --> 20:00.000 As far as the Commercial Appeal boycott, do you remember, was there a place where that was centered, were there leaders? Was it headquartered in a particular place? 73 20:00.000 --> 20:20.000 I don't remember, because as I said— I don't remember if it was headquartered in place, but I do remember that after my mother read the paper, I had to take it around the corner for other people to read and that they did boycott. And I can remember that at two instances, the Black people in Memphis boycotted the Commercial Appeal. 74 20:20.000 --> 20:26.000 In a more general way, who did you, at that young age, consider to be the leaders of the community? 75 20:26.000 --> 21:12.000 I didn't think of anyone being the leader, because I really didn't recognize any one entity of doing that. I guess people just got fed up. One of the things that always happens with African American society is someone looks for a leader. My response to that is, who is a White leader? That's always my response, for if you look for Black leader, who is a White leader? And sometimes the leaders have been identified for African Americans, African Americans have not identified anybody as a leader. And so therefore I don't remember anyone in particular, I really don't, during that time, as far as that kind of action is concerned. 76 21:12.000 --> 22:09.000 The people who had been identified at as our leaders would not ordinarily have done that kind of thing. Well, at that time, those people who had been identified as the leaders were what we call elitist Blacks. Probably the name that you have probably might have heard, Lieutenant George Lee, who was a leading Republican. I did not see him as a person who would make any waves at all because he was enjoying the police publicity's success as being a part of the Black Republican. And I cannot recall anyone in that early time say being a leader. I think it might have been something that's caught on because people said that they were tired of it. 77 22:09.000 --> 22:12.000 Now this was a time— 78 22:12.000 --> 22:22.000 I guess this first boycott had to be in the 1940s, late 1940s. 79 22:22.000 --> 22:42.000 I'm unclear about something, I don't know as much about this as I should know now, when Lieutenant George Lee was a identified leader, he was a Republican, was this a time, did Blacks in Memphis had have any access at all to organized elections? Did they have any kind of voting rights at that time? 80 22:42.000 --> 23:54.000 Yes, you did have voting rights. But as I said, many people were told who to vote for. Now, by this time, most Blacks in this area were really identified as Democrats, after the election of President Roosevelt. Probably prior to that time we would've seen many of them as Republicans, which was what you found after the Civil War, and because they preceded, Republicans, being the liberators, they voted Republican. But of course, with the changes with Franklin Roosevelt and after the effects of the depression that most certainly impacted Blacks quite harshly, especially those who didn't have relatives in Mississippi who had farms, who brought food to them and this type of thing. Then you had the largest group of people and then moving to the Democratic party. And so therefore, during the late 1930s, '40s, even up to the present time, your largest African American groups, as far as voting is concerned, has been Democratic. 81 23:54.000 --> 23:55.000 Did your parents vote? 82 23:55.000 --> 24:20.000 Yes, my mother and father voted. In fact, when I was eighteen years old, my mother took me down to register. She was very adamant about voting. I think I've carried it on to my son, because usually he'll vote in the morning, I vote in the afternoon, and he has to have been there when I get there. And he knows that I'll be looking to see if his signature is on the poll. 83 24:20.000 --> 24:25.000 You mentioned people will hit hard who didn't have relatives in Mississippi? 84 24:25.000 --> 25:00.000 Historically, Black people have had to make do with very little. That's part of our heritage out of slavery, that you got what was left over on any kind of an animal and you had to do something with it, and during slavery, you got the feet of the chicken, and the head, and these type things. You got the entrails of a hog and a cow. So you had to make do with those things that were not usable. And so therefore Black people probably could eat because the fact that they knew how to use these kinds of things. 85 25:00.000 --> 26:01.000 And then too, you had not had the great migration from the south. You might still have some relatives who had a farm, that in the summertime grew vegetables and what have you, and animals. And so when it was slaughter time for the animals in the fall, then you got food. And then when it was the summertime, you also got food. And then I can recall, we had a cousin that lived with us who had no children. Her son had been killed in Florida, he had gone down to work, who lived with us, and she had brought from Mississippi with her the canning of vegetables and what have you. And so therefore Black people might have been able to have food more readily because of the fact that the skills that had been learned out of slavery and brought into their everyday life. 86 26:01.000 --> 26:03.000 Did your family have relatives still in Mississippi? 87 26:03.000 --> 26:44.000 We had an aunt that lived in Arkansas, in Brinkley, Arkansas. And her name was Aunt Betty and her husband was a local principal, but they had a large farm, they had sharecroppers, but they also grew a lot, a very large vegetable garden. And so in the summertime we would go there for a couple of weeks and bring back all of these big huge bags of peas and beans and these type of things and fruits that were then canned and put away. 88 26:44.000 --> 26:50.000 Where were your parents originally from? Did they come to Memphis from another surrounding area? 89 26:50.000 --> 26:57.000 My mother was from Memphis. She was born in Memphis in 1900. My father came from Mississippi. 90 26:57.000 --> 26:59.000 What part? 91 26:59.000 --> 27:27.000 I don't remember. He never talked about where he came from, from Mississippi. He had mixed parentage, mixed White, Indian, Black parentage. And he never talked about, he never talked about. Which was not unusual for African American men at that time to not talk about their heritage, where they had come from, their parentage, it was not unusual. 92 27:27.000 --> 27:28.000 Why? 93 27:28.000 --> 28:37.000 I'm not sure if they have said that we are a matriarch people, and that Black women were able to get things done that Black men couldn't. And then Black men had been so dominated that they did not talk a lot, I guess to keep your mouth closed and you'll be okay. Well, in this particular area you're talking about here in the Delta, by opening your mouth about any little thing could necessarily mean you were lynched. And we are not too far from the area, about two blocks up, where some businessmen used to be up here at Mississippi Walker that were lynched. In fact, this is where Ida Wells wrote about it and why she had to leave this area. And so it was not unusual in many of the corners in these areas where Black men had been lynched. And so you had Black men at that time who were not stepping forward because the fact that they might well be killed in remarks that they made. 94 28:37.000 --> 28:39.000 Was there anybody who was stepping forward? 95 28:39.000 --> 28:50.000 I cannot think of any one person that was. We had two local newspapers. 96 28:50.000 --> 28:50.000 The World. 97 28:50.000 --> 29:12.000 The World. Mr. Swinger would write about things. He would write about some things that we felt were unjust to the people in this city who were African American. And most people read his paper and then— 98 29:12.000 --> 29:13.000 He wrote for the World? 99 29:13.000 --> 29:23.000 Yes, he did. One time he was the editor of the Memphis World. 100 29:23.000 --> 29:31.000 You say there was no one particular person who stepped forward, but yet there was resistance. How do you think people resisted during these times? 101 29:31.000 --> 30:33.000 I think from word of mouth or people got together and talked about things. One of the things that people feared in this area was people who got information and took it back to the White population. This was always a fear. And many people did that. If there was anything that was done in the Black community, the White establishment knew about it. And so sometimes people were not as open as they might have been because they did not know who was going to be taking what back. And so I just can't remember any person who stood out as a person who would do this. I really think there was things that were just passed along and people just started doing pretty much like doing slave time. You had no leaders necessarily, but the message got around just from word of mouth that this is what you were going to do and that you couldn't identify who your leader was, but yet the message was there. 102 30:33.000 --> 30:41.000 Would you say that your parents taught you certain lessons about living in this time, about dignity? 103 30:41.000 --> 30:44.000 My mother did. I'd have to say my mother did some more than anyone else. 104 30:44.000 --> 30:47.000 What lessons did she teach you? 105 30:47.000 --> 31:45.000 Mother was the type of person who used get along with anyone. They used to call us the uppity niggers on our street because of the fact that we had a car and we were able to dress well and we always had food on our table. In fact, one of my friends, Peggy, one of my White acquaintances, Peggy, she used our house every single day and she'd come right at dinnertime, she'd come for dinner. But mother taught us that you are important, you are somebody and nobody can tell you who you are. You must decide who you will be. And so therefore the idea that— But she also stressed that you should not think that you're better than anyone else. She was very religious and she would say all of us are God's children, and so therefore you're not better than anyone, but you are as good as anyone else. And don't let other people decide who you are. You must find that yourself. 106 31:45.000 --> 32:25.000 I guess that's a lesson that's always stayed with me, that, number one, where there's injustice, I have no fear of speaking up. And then to have empathy for all people, recognize that all people might not be in the same economical, education status that I am, but there's still people and they have something to often have something to give. And that's the attitude I take toward all people. And so therefore, even though this particular area, some of my church members another are fearful of this area, I'm not. I walk in this area. I'm a volunteer for YMCA too. And I used to walk from one place to the other and I didn't have any fear in doing that. 107 32:25.000 --> 33:09.000 And we did a survey last week over in LeMoyne, I had no fear about going there, knocking on doors and ask, asking questions. I've done that before. We have gone on outreach there. And I just don't have the fear that some people seem to feel that it's necessary to have an area that's impacted by poverty or people who are undereducated or uneducated, people who have to exist in public housing and what have you. So I guess the lesson that she taught me was that you have to tread some places where others might not tread and therefore do some things that others might be reluctant to do. 108 33:09.000 --> 33:28.000 These two guiding principles, this lack of fear of speaking out against injustice as well as this empathy for people in different stages in life, different levels in life. Where else do you think that lesson might have been reinforced with you? Where else did you pick these things? 109 33:28.000 --> 33:41.000 I guess a person that, there's one teacher that I remember very vividly. Her name was Mrs. Amanda Woofrin. She was my eighth grade social studies teacher. 110 33:41.000 --> 33:43.000 Could you spell that for me? 111 33:43.000 --> 34:50.000 W-O-O-F-R-I-N. Woofrin. And she was a very strong woman, as most Black women were during that time, very strong, very forceful, a strict disciplinarian. But also always telling her Black students what their possibilities were and not making them feel that they did not have the possibility to do anything else. And then another of my instructors in high school, Nat D. Williams, my twelfth grade history teacher. Nat D., I would say he lived before his time because the fact he was a great orator, a great historian and really kept us and helped us to be in perspective of who we were as well. And to think positive of about Blackness and not negatively of it. 112 34:50.000 --> 34:51.000 What high school did you attend? 113 34:51.000 --> 34:57.000 Booker T. Washington High School. 114 34:57.000 --> 35:03.000 And what other things stick out in your mind about Booker T. at that time? 115 35:03.000 --> 35:47.000 It was a school. The principal was Blair T. Hunt, who was a pastor at Mississippi Boulevard Christian Church. Very stern, strong man, led a very tight ship. But also told us that because we was at school, you were at the best school in the world. He thought his school was the best. And really at that time, when you think about the high schools that were available for Black children, it was, because it had many things to offer that other high schools did not. Mr. Hunt would've made an excellent politician, even though he was a minister and did not consider himself a politician. He could manipulate the system, he was a master at it. He really was. 116 35:47.000 --> 36:24.000 And so he could get things for his schools that other people could not. And he also learned how to play the game very well with the White establishment. And he did that, I feel, very strongly so that his students would have the best it could possibly gotten for any students. Well respected by everyone, with curse sometimes, and was very stern. But he did have an excellent high school. And students still at that school every year have reunions of classes, in fact, they have a national reunion coming up— 117 36:24.000 --> 36:26.000 In Chicago? 118 36:26.000 --> 36:35.000 — in August. So the spirit of the school continues on, even though there are many students who were there doing his tenure now, who were old as I am. 119 36:35.000 --> 36:39.000 What were some of the things that he get that others couldn't? 120 36:39.000 --> 36:57.000 For example, lab equipment in labs and science and mathematics and your class. Our classrooms were never over packed in. So he would make sure that the materials that students needed and everything they needed was there. 121 36:57.000 --> 37:02.000 I've heard through tradition that a lot of the materials from Booker T. actually came from Central? 122 37:02.000 --> 37:40.000 They might have, they might well have. But many of the schools did not have, for example, have commerce classes. They did not have cosmetology, and they did not have large shop classes. And Booker T. Washington had all of those things, not only one or two, but many shop classes. Cosmetology classes, home economics classes. And then we really never were over-crowded, even though it was the largest high school, it seems that he had an act with faculty where the class would not be packed with kids. 123 37:40.000 --> 37:47.000 What was your course of study at Booker T.? What interest did you identify? 124 37:47.000 --> 38:29.000 Well, mostly by tenth grade I decided I was going to be in the commerce class, which was a secretarial class at that time. And because I had a sister there that these classes were chosen, I took typing in tenth grade and then if you were chosen, because many students applied, but because you could only have one class, there were really two classes. But the teacher picked up her class in eleventh grade and she'd have them for two years. The teachers chose their students. And so what they usually did was chose the top students in the building and this is what happened. That was my choice there. I wanted to learn how to type. 125 38:29.000 --> 38:34.000 Did you go on to pursue business at Fisk, LeMoyne or the University of Arkansas? 126 38:34.000 --> 39:32.000 No, my interest had always been in history. My degree is in history with a minor in political science and government. And to tell you the truth, I went to school on boys scholarships and most people assumed that I majored in music, but I never did. I had no interest to major in music. I could sing, yes, but my interest had always been in political science, so law. In fact, my ambition had been to be a lawyer. I often tease Judge Lockett now about that, he's a member of our church. But he told me I did not need to go to law school, he was at our career day at Booker T. Washington. And I was the only girl in the group for a law. And he told me, "Just forget it." He swears he didn't do that, but I remember he did. But only one attorney ever encouraged me to do that. And that was Attorney Estes who passed away. 127 39:32.000 --> 39:41.000 Are there moments or memories that you made or stick out about your days at these three universities? 128 39:41.000 --> 40:38.000 One of the things that I liked at Fisk was that there was some activism there. LeMoyne was not at that time, it came in much, much later. University of Arkansas, I loved it. I loved it better than all three really, because of the camaraderie that you found there, the faculty and staff, the president, it would not be unusual for him to be walking the campus with students, talking to them and this type of thing. And his door was always open to you. And I think the whole atmosphere of the campus was one that if you went there, you loved it. In fact, I'd been there three days and hadn't called home. And my mother called all over the place trying to find me to see what was wrong, because she was so positive— When I was to Fisk, I called home every day, and she was just so positive that I was going to do that. 129 40:38.000 --> 41:06.000 And I had not. I'd been there three days and had not called home. She was very concerned, so she called everyone until she found me to see what was— As soon as she found me to find what was wrong, and nothing was wrong, I was just having a good time enjoying the choir, had to go early. That's the times you bond together and practice and do a lot of things together. And so once she found out I was all right, she was satisfied. And I didn't call home every day either. So it was a difference. 130 41:06.000 --> 41:10.000 Was there a spirit of activism at [indistinct 00:41:09]? 131 41:10.000 --> 42:04.000 Yes, in some cases. In fact, Martin Luther King spoke at our campus when in fact we had bomb threats. I was there during the time, because I stayed out of school for two years after LeMoyne. When I was there, we had a bomb threat because he was speaking there. We had him as one of our speakers. This was during the time of the activism that he was carrying on in Alabama. And of course right down the road is Central High in Little Rock that was going on. And during that time, President did not want us off campus. It was about forty miles away. He did not want any of us to go alone any place off campus because the fear for our safety was so great. And of course he put out a bull and he referred us to stay on campus. But if we had to go downtown, anything, we were not to go along, that a group would have to go together. 132 42:04.000 --> 42:26.000 Which campus was it? Was this the Pine Bluff campus? And that's forty miles from Little Rock? You earlier mentioned one of the values that you've carried is a willingness to tread where others will not tread. What have some of those places been? Where have you treaded? 133 42:26.000 --> 42:53.000 Well, as a teacher in city school system, one of the things I took part in is some of the boycotts that we had. We boycotted trying to get a Black person on the Board of Education. And our boycott kept my child off school, we had to put what was called Black Mondays. 134 42:53.000 --> 42:53.000 What were those? 135 42:53.000 --> 43:30.000 Black Mondays were an attempt to get representation on the board of education. And Black parents were asked to keep their children home every Monday. And the boy put pressure on the Black schools, the children had to have an excuse for why they were absent. And of course the superintendent made a statement that, of course I caught right on to, because he had said he could not assure our children's safety if we kept them at home. And of course, if you can't assure my child's safety at home, then you can't assure it at school. 136 43:30.000 --> 44:18.000 And so I wrote to that effect, to the excuse, "Well, since your superintendent cannot assure my child's safety. I'm keeping at home." So they couldn't do anything with that. Nothing. Because he said that he as a public statement that he made. And of course, since I knew I was going to keep him out, I made a ditto. If you're familiar to the Ditto machine, it makes purple copies. So I made them all in purple to make sure to let him know that I was not writing a new statement every time, all I did was sign it in black. And I sent that to school with him, even though I worked in Memphis schools. And I was at that time what we call the Memphis Community Lab. That was old Owen College. One building that was left on the campus. 137 44:18.000 --> 44:59.000 Advanced Junior High is built on the part of that lot now, it's a building that's very deteriorated right behind it, but that was called the Memphis Community Learning Lab. It was an experimental program to look at the modalities of children's learning. And so we all wore black bands, some of us, not everybody, some did, our directors did not and some others who felt they couldn't do it. But of course there were some of us there who worked there, who had been activists and been in the marches and whatever. And so we supported that through that. And also some of the bands that we had here in Memphis City schools also. 138 44:59.000 --> 45:05.000 And what years did the Black [indistinct 00:45:01]? 139 45:05.000 --> 45:29.000 Let me see. About mid-'60s. They finally appointed two people to the Board of Education, who is now Judge George Brown, he was appointed, and Hollis Price. 140 45:29.000 --> 45:31.000 And when did they finally make those appointments? 141 45:31.000 --> 45:48.000 After they saw that we were not going to change the Black Mondays. And in Tennessee, you get your funding based on the number of children who come to school. And parents really did do that. And of course, doing the garbage strikes also. 142 45:48.000 --> 45:49.000 So they did the same thing in support of the sanitation? 143 45:49.000 --> 46:55.000 We took up money for sanitation workers, and they asked us not to put any garbage out on the street. Because they said, "If you put it out the street, we'll pick it up." I should have taken a picture of my backyard, it was horrendous. It was horrendous. But they had asked us not to put it out on the street. And some people did, they said it was is a hassle or what have you. But one of the things I did, my job at my school was to take up a dollar from each teacher every week. Because they didn't have any money. And really during that time, garbage men, if you looked at their salaries, they really would've qualified for welfare, because they were making so little money. And it amazes me now how fearful people were at that time to even give a dollar, that they were so fearful, that we had about close to forty people in my building, and only seven of us would give a dollar a week. And some people were so fearful. And then they asked—