WEBVTT 1 00:10.000 --> 00:19.000 Mrs. Baldwin, can you tell me when and where you were born and about the area that you grew up in? 2 00:19.000 --> 01:37.000 Sure. Yes, I was born in Anderson, South Carolina a long time ago, in 1923. This coming August, I'll be 71 years old, proud of that too. Anderson was a small town, and of course, let's see, but it's grown now. It's quite a big town. But I grew up in a home which I call the Presbyterian manse. My father was an ordained minister who went to Biddle University, which is now Johnson C. Smith, and my mother was a teacher. She had finished at Barber-Scotia. With my three brothers and one sister, I grew up there in Anderson until I was 12 years old. Then we left Anderson and moved to Keysville, Georgia, where my father became the superintendent at Boggs Academy, which is also a Presbyterian school. 3 01:37.000 --> 02:36.000 While we were in Anderson, he was principal of Salem High School and pastor of Salem Presbyterian Church. I think we had a very good background because our house was running over with books and newspapers. We had the only telephone in the community. We had only indoor bathroom. Of course, nobody came to use our bathroom, but we also had the first radio, and it was so much fun for the people to come and listen to the Joe Louis fights. That was what brought them together on the front porch. We just turned the radio up real loud and everybody listened to the fights often. 4 02:36.000 --> 03:38.000 But anyway, ours was like a community center where people came for different things. We were poor, but we didn't know it. There was always enough food there for another child or two other children who came over, and sometimes we ourselves would decide that we were going to hide the food if we had anything to do with it. Mama would say, "Don't do Hosea like that. Give him some food." We always had enough of whatever we had to help somebody else, and I think that was a beautiful thing. I can't stand to see a kitten hungry now, anybody. One of the first things I'll do is offer food if I think they haven't had food. That's a family trait, a tradition with us. 5 03:38.000 --> 03:46.000 What are your earliest childhood memories? 6 03:46.000 --> 04:29.000 Some of my earliest childhood memories when we were in Anderson was something that doesn't seem to exist now are things that I cherish was plenty of open space in which to play. Our parents didn't have to see us to know where we were because the neighbors saw us. If we were not in our own immediate neighborhood, there was somebody in that next neighborhood who knew us, and we were prone to be obedient to everybody in that neighborhood. 7 04:29.000 --> 05:21.000 That stands out to me as very significant because it's difficult to even let the kids go two doors away now if you don't know that those parents, and most of the time, both of those parents are there. We could play and have fun. I used to like to read, and I think I learned to read very early. I don't know how, but there were some chinaberry trees on either side of our house. There was one chinaberry tree that had an almost a 45 degree angle limb, and I would get a book and climb up and sit on that limb and rest my back on this part. 8 05:21.000 --> 06:45.000 I was above the street so I could see people passing, and this was not one of the lower limbs. I had to climb one up and then and they couldn't see me unless they really bothered to look. I would sit up in that tree and read. I read the whole Bobbsey Twins books and all, but just the freedom to go throughout the community and know that we were safe, we didn't have to worry about that. But that's one of the things I remember mostly. Other thing is what went on in the house. Our father held C.W., the oldest child, responsible for all of us when they would leave us at home and they would hold him responsible, and I didn't think that was fair. I never did think that was fair, because the next brother gave him such a hard time. If anything went wrong, that oldest child got blamed for it, and I didn't like it. But anyway, the parents were very strict as far as what we did. 9 06:45.000 --> 08:07.000 We could do anything at home that we wanted to, as long as they permitted it. The thesis behind that being, if there's something that you want to do, you can do it at home rather than out in the street. So in the manse, we played checkers and we played cards, and we danced and we played whatever was on the radio, but as long as the music wasn't too loud, it was all right. As long as we didn't argue over the cards or the checkers, it was okay. If we argued, he'd come down and say, "Give me the cards," and he'd take them. That was 19 cents to get another deck of cards, but just so we did not argue and whatnot. So consequently, we had a lot of kids who generally were over at our house. He had a relationship with all of those kids, and I think he helped to mold their lives like he did ours. He read to us. He would read the stories. I can't think of the name of the stories. Isn't that awful? But Brother Fox and Brother Rabbit, you know those stories? 10 08:07.000 --> 08:08.000 Yeah. 11 08:08.000 --> 09:10.000 Well, he would read those stories, and he had a particular voice for Brother Fox, one for Brother Rabbit and all the others, brother Bear. I think that encouraged our interest in reading. All of us loved to read. I did until my eyes gave out on me and whatnot, but I still read with the tapes that come from the Library for the Blind. They just won't send me what I order. But those are some of the fondest members. Then the other thing is going to church, participating in Sunday school and whatnot, and then going to the conferences in the summer. We had family conferences, which was a lot of fun. When we'd go to register, they would register the Francis family, but daddy would maybe be a blue, he'd get a blue ribbon, mama would get a red. 12 09:10.000 --> 10:07.000 C.W. would get a blue ribbon. James would get a red. I would get a blue ribbon. Andrew would get a red. So for the duration of the conference, those of us who were red, we were red, and we played with all the other family members who were reds, so the blues opposed us in everything. We had sack races and egg races and all these things in the afternoon, but we also had a talent night where we had to do some things as family. One year, our family, my two oldest brothers and I did a trio on the piano, and then we sang. The whole family sang two songs with my oldest brother playing and whatnot. Just things like that, those are pleasant memories, how we would try to race and beat other families there each year. 13 10:07.000 --> 10:09.000 Now, those were sponsored by the Presbyterians— 14 10:09.000 --> 10:10.000 Presbyterian Church— 15 10:10.000 --> 10:10.000 Oh, I see. 16 10:10.000 --> 10:56.000 Those were family conferences. They were a lot of fun. There was one family in Due West, South Carolina, the Pressly family who, well, they just had girls. They had three girls, and of course he would, oh, Reverend Pressly would always try to get there before we did. So one year, just as we were getting into—this was in Augusta, Georgia. They always had this at Haynes Institute. Just as we were getting into Augusta there said, "There's old Pressly," and he had a Ford, see, daddy had a Dodge. Daddy knew a shortcut to get to Haynes. 17 10:56.000 --> 11:33.000 So daddy went around some back road and whatnot, and C.W., the oldest boy, said, "You going to let him beat us. You came in this old dirt road and all these curves and we can't make it." Daddy pulled into Haynes Institute, and we were at the desk when the Presslys came in. It was so much fun, but it was just good, wholesome competition. I don't know. There's so many things that I could remember about growing up early years, how to get along with the boys, was I was the only girl in the house at that time. 18 11:33.000 --> 11:38.000 How about your mother? 19 11:38.000 --> 12:25.000 Mama was, well, her name is Almena Martin Francis. I didn't give you my daddy's name, did I? His name was Charles Warwick Francis, Sr., and mama was Almena Martin. Mama was a very quiet person. She smiled a lot, but she had a left hand, I tell you, that she'd spank. Now she would spank us with that left hand and a brush if we got into trouble. 20 12:25.000 --> 13:09.000 Dad was an evangelist for a while, and that meant that he was out out of town during the summer, out of town quite a bit doing revival services for different churches and whatnot, very dynamic speaker. But mama kept things going while he was gone. You know how try how children try to play their parents against each other, but mama and daddy had an understanding, and we had that understanding, and we learned it. When she was there alone, she was totally in charge. He didn't want to hear anything but the good things when he got back. 21 13:09.000 --> 14:29.000 He didn't want us to tell him what mama did or what she didn't do or wouldn't let us do, mama was in charge. Of course, the same thing happened when he was there, but when they were both there, like any kids would do, we'd go and ask him for some kind of favor, and he'd say, "Ask your mother." We'd go and ask her and she'd say, "Ask your daddy." So that meant that they had to get together on whatever it was. James was the second-oldest son. He's the one who caused the most trouble. He kept things pretty lively, and he would always go to mama and say that, "Daddy said that I could do such-and-such a thing if it's all right with you," which was not so. That would put mama on the spot, but she knew, but she would have to check it out. But she said, "I have to talk to your daddy about this." But mama was, she loved doing different things. Mama could sing. She had beautiful alto voice, and she loved to sing. 22 14:29.000 --> 15:33.000 She loved to cook the things that she could cook. She wasn't the fancy cook at all, but she made biscuits that were good when they were cold, they were soft. It's one of the joys I had when I was in college. Whenever she would send me a box of things or send me something, she would put in a package of her biscuits; didn't even have to heat them. They were real good. She taught me how to cook a lot of things but she didn't teach me how to cook her biscuits. I never asked her to, and she didn't teach me how to do that. But she was quiet, she didn't have too much to say about anything. But if anybody would bother any one of her children or she thought that anybody was mistreating one of us, they would hear from mama. 23 15:33.000 --> 16:37.000 She would make a whole lot of noise then about C.W. or James and whatnot. But she tried her best to teach us the things that she knew best, and she knew Latin. Both of them knew Latin, and we would try to trick mama sometimes to see if she knew certain words. You could give her a word that she may not have heard, and she'd say, "Just let me think about it." In a few minutes, she'd give you a definition. She told us after we kept asking her, "How do you do that? How do you do that?" She told us, "It's my Latin background." She could just break it down. Just the year that I was getting into, what was it, 9th grade? 9th, my 10th grade, and I was due to have a foreign language in high school, they changed to French, so I didn't get to take Latin at all, but I wanted to take Latin just to—I've delved into it a little bit. 24 16:37.000 --> 17:53.000 But I know when James was in service and he wanted to go to officer's training school, in fact, he was up for that, he had to do a demonstration of some kind. He wrote mama and told her about it, and he wanted to know what she would suggest he do. She gave him two ideas, and he took one of them, I can't remember which now, and did a superb job in whatever it was he had to do. But we knew she was there to help us do whatever we wanted to. I remember writing her many days from college and letting her know, but I didn't have a relationship with her that I had with my daddy. They both encouraged us to do our very best whatever or whatever we did. She, "Don't forget now that the line of demarcation between you and your teacher, and you must respect that. You want to do well in anybody's class. Don't sit in the back, sit right in front of that desk." 25 17:53.000 --> 19:14.000 The sound advice that kids just really needed, "Don't argue with the teacher at any time. You respect their opinion, disagree with them and say, 'I disagree with you because,' and state your fact once. Once you do that, leave it alone.'" These would just sound things that I could use all through. I could count on her for that. But she lived with me here for about three years. She had Alzheimer's disease, and that's when my children were little. We didn't have a nursing home here. They were building one, but it wasn't ready. So I did put her in a nursing home in Selma, and I'd go twice a month to see her. She was kept clean and everything, but she died over there, but she outlived my father. My father died, daddy was 56, I think, when he died. Mama was going on 76 when she died. 26 19:14.000 --> 19:31.000 It sounds like your family, particularly your father was in Keysville, a community leader. Would that be— 27 19:31.000 --> 20:12.000 Yes. I think anybody who would be principal or superintendent at Boggs would have to be a community leader. He not only pastored Blackburn Church, which is on the campus, see, that's the Presbyterian church on the campus of Boggs Academy, but he also pastored two other little churches, one at St. Clair, which is right down the road, and there wasn't even a church there. There was a little house that we'd meet. We would have Sunday school down there Sunday afternoons, and then we'd have a little service. 28 20:12.000 --> 21:09.000 Then there was another one called, I can't remember the name of the other little parish where he would have church about twice a month in the afternoons, but we always had Sunday school and church on the campus every Sunday morning. We had prayer meeting on Wednesday nights, and some of the community people would come for the prayer meeting, but basically, that was for the campus. When we first went to Boggs Academy, there was no electricity there. The principal's house was wired, and of course, they had, what is this independent kind of power or dynamo? 29 21:09.000 --> 21:10.000 A generator? 30 21:10.000 --> 21:56.000 Yes, it was in a little house, and that provided the power for the lights in the superintendent's house, but it was not working, so we were using kerosene lamps. When we first went to Boggs Academy, and that was one of the big contributions he made to Boggs Academy. He was determined to get some light there because it was dangerous. We'd go to, Wednesday night prayer meeting. You'd see lamps coming from all over the campus from the girls' dorm and the boys' dorm. We'd be bringing these lamps because that was the only night that we had. 31 21:56.000 --> 21:59.000 Now, when did he start at Boggs Academy? 32 21:59.000 --> 22:00.000 Pardon? 33 22:00.000 --> 22:01.000 When did he start? 34 22:01.000 --> 22:03.000 Working there? 35 22:03.000 --> 22:05.000 Yeah. 36 22:05.000 --> 22:13.000 Let's see. 23, 30, 23 plus 12 is 35, is that right? 37 22:13.000 --> 22:16.000 Yeah. 1935. 38 22:16.000 --> 22:17.000 Just a moment, '36. 39 22:17.000 --> 22:19.000 1936? 40 22:19.000 --> 22:27.000 1936 is when he went. 1936, that's right. That's right. 1936. 41 22:27.000 --> 22:30.000 Sounds like Boggs was a very vibrant place to be. 42 22:30.000 --> 23:47.000 Very much so. It really was. It had the boys' dorm, the girls' dorm, and the girls' dorm downstairs was the dining hall and the kitchen. So the boys had to come across Quaker Road to that side of the campus for all their meals. That mealtime at Boggs was a happy time because they would gather outside and wait for the last bell to ring before they entered the dining hall. We did different things at the table. Sometimes somebody in the corner would, "Where is table number one? Where is table number two?" Well, table number two couldn't respond unless they had eaten everything on that table. So that turned out to be a lot of fun. On Sunday mornings, well, I was director of Christian education the years that I worked there, and every Sunday morning there was a quotation of some kind and a leaf or a little sprig of leaves that we'd put on the table. 43 23:47.000 --> 24:43.000 Those quotations were meant to stir the mind to make them think, and there would be a whole lot of discussion. They would get to talking about the quotation or discussing it, pro and con and wondering, they wouldn't want to leave. The bell would ring from breakfast to be over, nobody would move, but there were varied kinds of experiences we had at mealtime there. Daddy enjoyed that too when he was there. He would often in preaching his sermons, ask questions, and he did that for two or three reasons. He worked with the boys when the boys were out doing certain things. I know they had to paint a barn, and he had all these big boys out there painting this barn, and they would talk about certain things that happened. 44 24:43.000 --> 25:42.000 They would talk about maybe the questions that he asked. He said, "I asked two questions in my sermon Sunday morning," and he said, "I know John Brown was asleep. I saw him. I know he doesn't know what the question was." He said, "But I want to know who can answer either one of those questions." Of course, the guys would work hard to stay awake and hear what he had to say. People came for different reasons, and of course, there were faculty, very young faculty who were vibrant teachers. Most of them, or many of them finished Johnson C. Smith. Of course, that's understandable with him, but he loved young people, and I think he passed that on to me. I like to deal with young people even now. 45 25:42.000 --> 25:56.000 Where would people come from to go to Boggs Academy? From the South I would imagine? 46 25:56.000 --> 27:02.000 Basically, from the South. Occasionally, we had kids from New York, maybe their grandmother had heard of—Oh, I'm about to pull that off. The grandmother may have heard of Boggs, or she may have had some experience and she would tell somebody else about it, or maybe somebody else would pass it on, people who had finished the Boggs years past, but they would come. I know when I was still in high school, we had two sisters from New York, but those were the only two who were that far away from home. The others were from places in Georgia and South Carolina and Florida, but basically throughout the Southeastern region was where they came from, and New York, Philadelphia, and that's about it. 47 27:02.000 --> 27:15.000 When I was talking with Mrs. Jones yesterday, she said that at one time, most of the teachers at Boggs, to her recollection, were White, but then that changed. 48 27:15.000 --> 27:20.000 Well, that evidently was so before we went to Boggs. 49 27:20.000 --> 27:21.000 Oh, okay. 50 27:21.000 --> 27:26.000 Because when we went to Boggs, all the teachers were Black. There was no White teacher at all. 51 27:26.000 --> 27:26.000 Okay. 52 27:26.000 --> 28:15.000 You see, Boggs was established by the Presbyterian Church, but as most schools, just like Cotton Valley where I worked out here, when I first came, Cotton Valley was established under the American Missionary Association, which was sponsored by the Congregational and Christian churches in the country. But it was started by two White women who were also first principal down there. That's how Boggs was started, I think, by the Presbyterian women. So most of the teachers were White, I heard, I did not know when we got there, they were all Black. 53 28:15.000 --> 28:21.000 About how many people lived at and went to school at Boggs? 54 28:21.000 --> 29:41.000 Let's see. Well, there were only, I would say about eight students who came every day. Those were the Singletons from down the road. That was Johnny and Alberta Singleton, and then James Saxon, that's three. Vivian and her brother from Keysville, they drove over every day, that's five. I guess that's about all, that's eight. Now, then the others lived on campus. Many of them right around in Burke County, but they lived on campus. I would say there must have been a total of about 70 students. When we first got there, that was second, I mean, that was first grade on up through seventh and then nine through 12th. What happened when I went to Boggs from Anderson, I had been promoted to the seventh grade. 55 29:41.000 --> 30:40.000 I had just finished sixth grade, but when I got to Boggs, they did not have an eighth grade. See, they had first through seventh. So they gave me the test to see what I would do, and that put me in ninth grade. That's one reason I finished early, finished high school at 15 years old, because they didn't have the seventh grade there. They didn't have the eighth grade there. I passed it, that's what it was. They didn't have an eighth grade, but there must've been about a total of 70 students at that time. Of course, they grew and grew, but they have some nice buildings out there, faculty houses. The Harperson Hall has been redone now. Have you ever been to Boggs, or do you plan to go? 56 30:40.000 --> 30:43.000 Well, now that I've heard about it, I'd like to visit. 57 30:43.000 --> 31:57.000 It's a beautiful place to have a retreat. The Harperson Hall has been refurbished, and in there they have a lovely meeting conference area with new furniture. You can spend the night with beds, the bedrooms are nice and have, I guess about eight nice little faculty cottages. All of them are brick building that was the girls' dormitory is still there. The dining hall is Boggs Hall, which is the oldest building on the campus now. They have the Charles W Francis Community Center, which is the gymnasium. If you get a chance ever to go and visit, I think you'd be delighted to see it. It's a nice campus, way out, the kids can't get into anything out there. It's 10 miles from Waynesboro and eight miles from Keysville. 58 31:57.000 --> 32:04.000 Do you remember, Mrs. Baldwin, your grandparents? 59 32:04.000 --> 33:11.000 No. I remember grandmama, my father's mother. But you see, my father's father had died before I was old enough to remember. All I remember is a picture of him hanging over the buffet in the dining room at his house, and he was very proud man. In fact, my father was adopted by him, by Reverend and Mrs. Frazier, their names, he was Frazier. But he was adopted by him. I remember grandmama though. She was a little late in quite busy. When I called Prince that day, and he came, I couldn't move. I actually couldn't—I screamed. So grandmama came running. She said, "You didn't believe me, did you?" 60 33:11.000 --> 33:11.000 That's the horse? 61 33:11.000 --> 33:13.000 Yes. 62 33:13.000 --> 34:18.000 She picked me up, and I was just crying, and she said, "You didn't believe me. You must always believe grandmama." Anything grandmama told me after then I believed, I really did. But it was just frightening that he would come and he would just nudge, he wasn't hurting me, but I didn't know what to expect. In fact, I didn't expect him to come over the fence. So she had on an apron, and she always had sugar in one pocket and salt in the other, and she treated him like a baby. So she reached in one of those pockets and let him lick for whatever she had in her hand. She said, "Now go back in that pasture." He turned around and ran around the house two times, and then he jumped over there. Now, if he could get out, what didn't need to happen in there, but she would call him just to let us see that he would come out. But he always ran around those trees, and then he'd come over the fence, a beautiful horse. 63 34:18.000 --> 34:19.000 He was her horse? 64 34:19.000 --> 35:37.000 Her horse, and that was her way to get to town. She had a buggy, and it was a nice little buggy, had the gold lanterns on the side. But she never went out at night. I know one of my father's friends wrote him a letter and told him he needed to come and make provisions for grandmama to go to town or to stop her from trying to go in the buggy, because Prince had never been trained to pass a car. When he'd hear the car coming, she would have to stop him and jump out of the buggy and put an old coat or something over his head, and she'd pat him, "It's all right, baby. It's all right." When the car would pass, then she'd take the coat off and get back in the buggy. So they felt that it was dangerous for her to do that, but she might not be quick enough to cover his head or to pet him and slow him down, and he might run off with her. This is the only time I know daddy went to see about grandma without taking us. 65 35:37.000 --> 36:47.000 He didn't take any of us, but he told us what happened when he got back. He stayed two days, and he went with her to town. He let her drive. He just wanted to see what she would do. So he said she would get off and put that coat over his head and talked to him like he was a baby. So he said he let her do that until they got to the highway, and then he took over the reins. They didn't have to go but about a mile to the little general store where she wanted to go. She called that going to town. So daddy took this whip, and when Prince met the first car and he started rearing up, daddy popped him and she said, "Oh, don't hit my baby! Don't hit my baby!" Daddy popped him again, and he started trying, and he passed that car and met that car all right. Coming back, the same thing happened. He had to hit him twice. But then the next day when they went in, daddy let her drive, Prince passed the car. 66 36:47.000 --> 37:30.000 He met it and kept going, and he never had any trouble. Prince died almost a week to the day that grandmama died. Nothing wrong with him, he was a healthy, beautiful horse. She brushed him and combed him, and I don't know what kind of horse he was, but he was kind of a golden horse, with a little beige to his tail. Now he was a pretty horse, but that's what he had to do to make it come. She could hitch him up to the buggy and everything and talk to him the whole while she was doing, and he acted as if he understood her. 67 37:30.000 --> 38:06.000 She would do this around the back, and she would go through the house and lock up, and then she'd say, "Come on, Prince." He'd come on with the buggy around the house and wait for her to get in, and she'd go by herself. I remember her very vividly. She'd send us a bag of peanuts every year for Christmas. When we got the phone call that grandmama had died, my youngest brother Andrew said, "Oh-oh, no more peanuts for Christmas." But she's the only grandparent I remember. 68 38:06.000 --> 38:17.000 Would she ever tell you stories about her growing up or would she talk to you about things like that? 69 38:17.000 --> 39:15.000 No, she may have done that to the older kids. I don't remember any stories that grandmama told. See, I just can't remember any stories that she told. She and daddy would have the best fun when we were there because they sat and talked a whole lot and enjoyed each other. We played a lot because she had so many fruit trees, and she'd have us picking fruit. She had this huge level space out there where Prince was, and we'd go out there and play, and I just don't remember any stories that she told. 70 39:15.000 --> 39:18.000 So she owned her land? 71 39:18.000 --> 40:28.000 Yes, they owned that. They owned that. See, Daddy and his brother were adopted by Reverend Mrs. Frazier. He was a Presbyterian minister. He had also gone to Biddle, and he wanted both of those boys to be ministers. Daddy took the reins and he went to Biddle, but J.B., his brother, wasn't interested in being a minister, so he didn't want to go. So his daddy said, "Well, you stay home and work, work the farm." So J.B. didn't go the first year or two. He didn't go to college. Well, daddy went, they paid his fare and everything, but during the summer, daddy worked as a pullman porter. By having worked during the summer, he could come home for Christmas, quote, "in style." He'd come on the train. 72 40:28.000 --> 41:24.000 Of course, that made J.B. a little bit jealous, I think, 'cause he daddy was, he'd coming home on his style on the train, and everybody knew that he came on the train and whatnot. So J.B. decided after all, after two years that he would go to college. So he went to Johnson C. Smith, and he finished and he became a minister, also, Presbyterian church. But that was the farm that they had. They grew everything that farmers grow. I don't think they did any cotton or anything like that, but they had all kinds of vegetables and fruits and things during the summer when we were there, peanuts and potatoes, I don't know if you know how people used to save their potatoes, sweet potatoes? 73 41:24.000 --> 41:26.000 Now, they would bury them, or— 74 41:26.000 --> 41:45.000 Yeah, they banked them. I don't know how they did it, but they would prepare a place in the ground. They would stock the potatoes in there, and they'd put straw and then another layer of potatoes, and they'd cover all that with dirt, and it would keep them. 75 41:45.000 --> 41:45.000 I see. 76 41:45.000 --> 42:18.000 They'd just get potatoes out when they needed them, and they wouldn't be frostbitten or spoiled or anything like that. So they grew things, and of course, she had her flowers. They kept the flowers, plants all winter under the house. They would put them down under the house so they would last like that. They wouldn't die, and she'd bring them out in the spring. 77 42:18.000 --> 42:21.000 She lived in Anderson, South Carolina? 78 42:21.000 --> 42:22.000 Who, grandmama? 79 42:22.000 --> 42:22.000 Yeah. 80 42:22.000 --> 42:50.000 No, no, no. This was down in Georgia, below Savannah. This was in Ludowici, or what is it called? Ludowici county, Georgia, down, not too far from Savannah. 81 42:50.000 --> 43:04.000 What was the neighborhood or the community like in Keysville? You talked a lot about Boggs Academy, and it seems like that was central to the community. 82 43:04.000 --> 43:05.000 Yes. 83 43:05.000 --> 43:09.000 Was there another part of Keysville that— 84 43:09.000 --> 44:34.000 Yes. Keysville is located eight miles away from Boggs and the—What do I want to say? That's the post office. That's where the mail comes. Now, the mail is delivered by the local postman. It's delivered, he comes and brings the mail to the school, or we can go and pick it up. Sometimes when there's too much mail, they'll have a note saying someone needs to pick up the mail, and someone from Boggs would ride over and get the mail. But Keysville is a small town. We used to make a joke about it saying that if you stump your toe, you'd just fall right on through Keysville. But they had this little general store there, which wasn't much bigger than this area, and that's where the post office was. Let's see, I guess in the city of Keysville, there had to be a dozen homes at most. Many of them, some of them were White and some were Black. 85 44:34.000 --> 45:28.000 The Whites lived right close to the little general store. There was an old rickety bridge. You could hear a car going over that bridge, a wooden bridge clump, clump, clump. Of course, it's been replaced now by a nice, sturdy, concrete bridge. I was over there last summer. The town had no—well, it was unincorporated. They didn't have a police force or they didn't have running water, sewage, the things that make a town a town. They just didn't have that until one of Boggs graduates, she was in the class behind me, she was in the class with my youngest brother, Emma Gresham. 86 45:28.000 --> 46:02.000 She'd be an interesting person for you to talk to over there, Emma Gresham. Emma lives in Augusta, but she has residence in Keysville. She is now the mayor of Keysville. They have incorporated Keysville, and they have a community center. They have a municipal building. It's small, but to see this happening in Keysville, they have running water now and a sewage system and some of the things that they're supposed to have as a township. 87 46:02.000 --> 46:09.000 Now, you mentioned that Whites lived next to the general store? 88 46:09.000 --> 46:10.000 Lived close to it. 89 46:10.000 --> 46:11.000 Oh, close to it. 90 46:11.000 --> 46:12.000 Close to it. 91 46:12.000 --> 46:17.000 So Keysville, there was a segregated pattern— 92 46:17.000 --> 46:18.000 Oh, definitely. 93 46:18.000 --> 46:18.000 —of residents. 94 46:18.000 --> 46:27.000 Sure. You could drive through a little town like Keysville and tell whether a White lived there or a Black. It was that type of neighborhood. 95 46:27.000 --> 46:32.000 I see. Actually—