WEBVTT
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Now it's on.
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Okay, so do you remember Take Back the Night?
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Sure.
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You know we did marches and this group of women,
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well, I wanted to say something.
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Because when I was in Ann Arbor,
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that was the first time I was in a conscious-raising group.
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Now the conscious-raising group that I participated in then,
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opposed to Gainesville, because Gainesville,
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it was before conscious-raising groups per se occurred.
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(crosstalk) the group of folks that I was with.
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I mean they were strong women.
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They were concerned and wanted to mentor women,
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which of course they did with me.
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But the focus, very clearly, was civil rights.
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It wasn't gender issues.
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So maybe it really was a little bit past you,
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'cause they put ads in the paper.
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Mm hm.
In Gainesville,
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but I don't know if
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it was '68 or '69.
It might've been--
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'69, maybe it was '69.
Yeah, so '69 I was gone.
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But, so the point that I'm making is
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that this conscious-raising group that I was a part of,
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you know, they didn't have very much awareness
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of women that weren't privileged.
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And I'm using that word intentionally,
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because I had two small kids.
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I had very limited income and they never thought of the fact
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that when they came to these meetings,
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their husbands took care of their children.
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So what I did was I left Carl and Gregory at the trailer.
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I put 'em to bed and I would go to that,
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but I would be a nervous wreck the whole time,
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because no one was with the kids.
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And so for me,
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the same thing occurred in Nashville
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because I had a boy child and there was this big issue
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about whether boy children could participate.
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Well I couldn't do any of the events
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if they couldn't participate,
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because I had nobody to babysit Carl.
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Separatism was a very big issue at the time,
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because I was subjected to a lot of stuff too,
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because I had the audacity to choose to have boy children.
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And to be with a man.
Yeah.
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Even though I was gay.
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But the point I'm making is
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that I always took the seriousness of these issues
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with a little grain of salt from that standpoint.
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Because I knew that people talked a good game
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but it wasn't always necessarily accurate from life.
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So for instance, this group of radical lesbians--
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Radical white lesbians.
Radical, you know,
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we all met--
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This is in Ann Arbor?
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No, this was in Nashville.
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I've skipped from,
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the Ann Arbor one was about me having
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to leave my children at home
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in order to go to conscious-raising group.
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But this thing in Nashville was true as well
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because I had two boys and I kinda had this separate life
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that was as a mother of two boys and lesbians.
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So we were organizing this group of women
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and everybody was going around and talking about their,
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whatever they wanted to say
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at the beginning of this organizing of this lesbian group.
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Well, I'd like to think of myself as funny,
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so when it got to me I said I wasn't a lesbian,
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I just slept with one.
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They didn't think that was funny.
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I, on the other hand, thought it was hilarious.
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But there was dead silence in this room.
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Because that was so unpolitically correct.
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And I was just making a joke, you know,
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but it wasn't--
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This is 19
This was a little too close
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to the bone.
(laughing)
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It reminds me of that cartoon, you know,
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where the one woman is saying,
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"Do you know the woman's movement has no sense of humor?"
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And the other one is saying, "No, but hum a few bars
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"and I'll fake it."
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(laughing)
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Yeah.
So,
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but, from a serious standpoint,
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that was significant for me.
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That lesbians, women, women of color,
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women of lower income realities,
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Women out of the prisons.
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I worked, I used to do a book group
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at the women's prison in Nashville.
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And because I'm always,
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it was a very sad time for me.
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I also had the Attorney General folks approach me
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about talking to sex offenders
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in the criminally insane prison
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out on Murphy's Burrow Road.
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I think they've moved it now.
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But the point is that, you know,
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we, and I'll say this about the four of us, are privileged.
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And there were many, many women who aren't privileged,
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who, being able to look at gender issues,
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was much less of an intellectual pursuit
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than it might have been for us.
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And I was always aware of that.
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The bookstore, I think, exemplified that a lot,
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because we would have people come in from Hartsville,
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or from, oh God, some of the little towns around Nashville.
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And these women were, in real life,
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in need of support, and appreciation of their lives
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that was much more easy for us.
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And I sort of balanced on a line, because of my,
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the experiences I had with my ex-husband
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and the difficulties of trying to get child support
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through the courts.
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This was before they were as serious
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about collecting child support as they are now.
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And when I went to the University of Florida
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and Wayne and I separated,
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I went to see if I could get student housing.
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And the woman that saw me told me under no circumstances
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would they consider a single woman
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being allowed to get single, married housing,
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because it would be a crisis with the men.
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And that I was undesirable.
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Flat out.
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And nobody thought anything about it.
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So I guess what I'm saying is that I think that
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in Nashville, what I got to do, in both the bookstore,
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you know, the record distribution, the concerts,
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all those kinds of things, is we went to great lengths
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to make sure that people on the whole scale of income
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were not excluded from participation.
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That was the first thing I heard about you
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when I heard about the bookstore.
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WomanKind Books, and it's not a rich white woman's thing,
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and that they did a particular consideration
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to class and income, and--
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So.
All the variables
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that get ignored.
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And then even when I went to Chicago
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was something that was of great concern to me.
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Which is that the world is not just made up
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of white rich women.
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Educated.
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Huh?
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Educated white--
Edu, right.
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And that sometimes in our educatedness,
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we don't realize our own,
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God what is it the word I wanna use?
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We think everybody's like us,
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and they aren't.
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So that was always important to me,
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because of my, of the boys that I had and the youngness,
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and the lack of support that I had in the culture,
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made a difference for me.
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But the timeframe there was I got in '69,
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it sounds like we were in similar places
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just next to each other.
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You know, that mine was really coming
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from the Methodist Church, yours from the Women Center
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and your school stuff and that kind of thing.
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But Nashville was a little town then.
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There weren't any decent place to go out and eat
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and the business, the women's,
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the music industry had some really strong women in it.
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That was also something.
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Who is the woman, she's in New York now,
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and she's much younger than me,
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I'd say 10 years at least younger.
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Her mother was head of the company,
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the organization that pays,
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like if your songs are performed.
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Oh, SGaP?
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SGaP.
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She was head of SGaP and this woman moved to New York
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just 'bout the time that I moved to Chicago.
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Young woman?
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Wasn't in New York then.
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Allison.
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Allison.
Oh my gosh,
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that name sounds familiar.
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Allison, what is her, I'll have to find her last name.
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But these are young women in the music business
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that their parents or their relatives,
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those folks were very successful.
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The Bluebird.
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Cafe?
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Yes, what is, what is her name?
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I'll just tell you this story about this woman.
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Her mother, there were two girls.
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(mumbles)
No.
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I'll tell you in a minute.
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Allison, no what was her name.
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She's not a musician, she's in the music business.
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Yeah, well this woman had the Bluebird
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and has just sold it in the last few years.
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But that was a phenomenal place, if you--
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The Bluebird was a woman-owned business?
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Yes.
Oh yeah.
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Oh yes.
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And she bought Sprouts from me.
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That restaurant was phenomenal
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in terms of people being heard
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by people in the music business
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who then might be interested in them
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and get them to record and those kinds of things.
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I mean it's like known around the country.
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That's still true.
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But she sold it recently.
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It was really one of the only places in Nashville--
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At that time, right.
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And this isn't a good example
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of the kind of strong female energy.
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It was in, I think Nashville, her mother,
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I'll think of her name, I just let go of it.
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Her mother and father, they came to Nashville
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because of the industry.
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And he was extremely successful in the industry.
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Okay, they were Jewish.
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They were Jewish, extremely attractive, well-off, bright,
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and she was blackballed,
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because she wasn't part of the Christian thing
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that was very important in Nashville,
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and I guess probably still is.
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She, Allison?
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No, no, no, the woman's, the mother of the woman
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that we're talking about--
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Of the Bluebird?
Of the Bluebird.
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And her name was Amy.
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I'm tryna remember their last name.
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I'll remember it in a minute.
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I'll call Joanna and find out what it is.
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Anyway, this woman, the way that I got to know 'em
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was on 2nd Avenue, she had been blackballed.
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Now instead of crawling in her hole
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and saying nobody liked her, you know,
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it was all blah blah blah,
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she just kept going.
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So what she did was she rented this big warehouse
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on 2nd Avenue.
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Now this is before 2nd Avenue was developed as,
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it was actually Gayle and I
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considered buying a bar on 2nd Avenue.
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I wish I had bought that bar.
(chuckling)
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But, oh God wow, almost had a name.
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Anyway, she rented this huge building
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and rented it out to small business.
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And we wanted to open a second unit in Downtown,
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so WomanKind Books, for a while, had a store there.
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Didn't know that.
Yep, we did.
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And so I was down there one day and I was,
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she was very funny, because she was very well-off,
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but you would never know it.
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She had a big broom.
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She would sweep the floors and talk,
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and you know that kind of,
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and so I was talking to her one day.
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God what's her name, I can see her so perfectly.
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Anyway, I was whining to her
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about somebody doing me wrong or something,
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and she says, "Well Carolyn," she says,
265
00:14:43.887 --> 00:14:45.047
"you know what?
266
00:14:45.047 --> 00:14:46.140
"This is what I've learned."
267
00:14:46.140 --> 00:14:50.177
She says, "People are no damn good."
268
00:14:51.130 --> 00:14:53.050
That's what she says, she says, "People are no damn good."
269
00:14:53.050 --> 00:14:54.840
And I'm like, "Really?"
270
00:14:54.840 --> 00:14:56.950
Because I knew that as much as I
271
00:14:56.950 --> 00:14:59.070
was interested in service, so was she.
272
00:14:59.070 --> 00:15:01.747
She says, "People are no damn good.
273
00:15:01.747 --> 00:15:05.737
"So what you have to do is you have to get up in the morning
274
00:15:05.737 --> 00:15:07.007
"and you gotta look in the mirror,
275
00:15:07.007 --> 00:15:09.467
"and you gotta say people are no damn good.
276
00:15:09.467 --> 00:15:11.437
"And then you gotta out on your britches
277
00:15:11.437 --> 00:15:13.617
"and go out and do what you gotta do."
278
00:15:15.250 --> 00:15:19.803
That comment has gotten me through many a bad day.
279
00:15:22.300 --> 00:15:24.550
And, that's what she did,
280
00:15:24.550 --> 00:15:26.723
and that's what she did with these girls.
281
00:15:27.650 --> 00:15:30.880
Because all of them became quite successful in--
282
00:15:30.880 --> 00:15:32.950
What girls?
Her daughters.
283
00:15:32.950 --> 00:15:33.783
Oh.
One of whom
284
00:15:33.783 --> 00:15:38.783
is the Bluebird owner that probably introduced,
285
00:15:39.360 --> 00:15:41.010
I don't know how many women
286
00:15:43.420 --> 00:15:48.330
as performers, that became best-selling performers.
287
00:15:48.330 --> 00:15:50.580
So it's Amy's mother who was blackballed?
288
00:15:50.580 --> 00:15:51.820
Yes.
289
00:15:51.820 --> 00:15:52.653
Yes.
290
00:15:54.450 --> 00:15:57.900
Because she didn't fit in with the,
291
00:15:57.900 --> 00:16:00.200
and her husband was extremely successful
292
00:16:00.200 --> 00:16:05.200
and at a very high position in a recording company,
293
00:16:06.590 --> 00:16:08.810
CBS or something, I don't know.
294
00:16:08.810 --> 00:16:10.930
CBS, 'cause that was actually Virginia,
295
00:16:10.930 --> 00:16:12.330
I think it was another.
296
00:16:12.330 --> 00:16:16.093
But the point I'm making is that they,
297
00:16:17.950 --> 00:16:21.920
that generation of young women in the music business
298
00:16:21.920 --> 00:16:24.780
in Nashville is phenomenal
299
00:16:24.780 --> 00:16:28.280
in terms of the success that began to occur.
300
00:16:28.280 --> 00:16:30.423
The same time, same timeframe.
301
00:16:32.760 --> 00:16:35.480
Because just prior to that, I ran for office
302
00:16:35.480 --> 00:16:37.763
during this timing, just prior to that,
303
00:16:38.650 --> 00:16:41.610
the first time that Marshall Chapman
304
00:16:41.610 --> 00:16:46.430
ever supported somebody running for office was me.
305
00:16:46.430 --> 00:16:48.370
And it was at the Bluebird.
306
00:16:48.370 --> 00:16:50.520
And she said, "You know, you have to go out and vote."
307
00:16:50.520 --> 00:16:52.820
And she talked about it for a few minutes.
308
00:16:52.820 --> 00:16:57.143
That never happened two years prior to that in Nashville.
309
00:16:58.210 --> 00:16:59.993
So that was an important time.
310
00:17:00.840 --> 00:17:02.150
And what time is this?
311
00:17:03.173 --> 00:17:06.076
Is this still '70, '75.
312
00:17:06.076 --> 00:17:08.650
No, this would've been probably '80.
313
00:17:08.650 --> 00:17:09.673
Tryna think of when I ran for office.
314
00:17:09.673 --> 00:17:11.413
It must been early '80s.
315
00:17:12.790 --> 00:17:14.840
I mean that stuff about Amy's mother and all that,
316
00:17:14.840 --> 00:17:15.673
when is that?
317
00:17:15.673 --> 00:17:19.050
That would've been the late '70s, '79, '80,
318
00:17:19.050 --> 00:17:20.430
something like that.
319
00:17:20.430 --> 00:17:21.610
We opened the store--
320
00:17:21.610 --> 00:17:23.010
That's why I didn't know about WomanKind,
321
00:17:23.010 --> 00:17:24.167
I was in Minneapolis.
322
00:17:24.167 --> 00:17:25.490
Now when did you open the store?
323
00:17:25.490 --> 00:17:28.600
70, let's see Gregory was hurt in '75,
324
00:17:28.600 --> 00:17:30.166
I went to (mumbles) '76, '77.
325
00:17:30.166 --> 00:17:34.427
'77, (mumbles) glad about that meeting,
326
00:17:34.427 --> 00:17:36.410
'cause I couldn't remember exactly--
327
00:17:36.410 --> 00:17:37.653
Say those dates again.
328
00:17:40.316 --> 00:17:41.616
What dates?
329
00:17:41.616 --> 00:17:42.690
What was in '77?
'78.
330
00:17:42.690 --> 00:17:47.600
Okay, in '77, and I probably started working on it,
331
00:17:47.600 --> 00:17:50.000
actually what happened is, there is a woman,
332
00:17:50.000 --> 00:17:51.370
and I'll have to get you her name,
333
00:17:51.370 --> 00:17:52.933
and I'm sorry I can't remember,
334
00:17:52.933 --> 00:17:55.190
I was freaking out coming over here.
335
00:17:55.190 --> 00:18:00.050
She had begun to buy feminist books
336
00:18:00.050 --> 00:18:04.090
and she would go to conferences and sell the books.
337
00:18:04.090 --> 00:18:06.190
And I met her at a conference.
338
00:18:06.190 --> 00:18:08.210
And I can't even tell you what the conference was,
339
00:18:08.210 --> 00:18:10.070
and we started talking.
340
00:18:10.070 --> 00:18:12.500
And I was talking about I really,
341
00:18:12.500 --> 00:18:14.280
you know, I was in divinity school
342
00:18:14.280 --> 00:18:17.130
and I was sick of the male stuff.
343
00:18:17.130 --> 00:18:19.660
I really wanted to do something connected
344
00:18:19.660 --> 00:18:21.520
to supporting women.
345
00:18:21.520 --> 00:18:25.117
And so, she said, "Well why don't we open a storefront,
346
00:18:25.117 --> 00:18:28.350
"and I'll just sell you half of the business."
347
00:18:28.350 --> 00:18:30.000
And so that's what happened.
348
00:18:30.000 --> 00:18:30.950
That's how woman.
349
00:18:30.950 --> 00:18:35.670
I went and found a store spot over on Belmont.
350
00:18:35.670 --> 00:18:40.670
And this is a perfect example of my city, because--
351
00:18:42.918 --> 00:18:45.296
'77 is when you opened WomanKind Books?
352
00:18:45.296 --> 00:18:46.129
Yep.
353
00:18:48.988 --> 00:18:50.733
And where is it?
354
00:18:50.733 --> 00:18:53.006
It's on Belmont.
On Belmont,
355
00:18:53.006 --> 00:18:57.523
'cross from Belmont College,
356
00:18:58.940 --> 00:19:01.623
which the state changed substantially now.
357
00:19:02.870 --> 00:19:07.870
But, what happened is that she and I didn't get along
358
00:19:11.120 --> 00:19:13.540
and so I ended up buying her out.
359
00:19:13.540 --> 00:19:17.643
Her husband was going to Fisk to become a dentist.
360
00:19:18.610 --> 00:19:20.470
And she'd been doing this, going to--
361
00:19:20.470 --> 00:19:23.520
So, wait a minute, she was a partner with you?
362
00:19:23.520 --> 00:19:25.610
I thought she sold you half the books.
363
00:19:25.610 --> 00:19:29.423
No, what happened is she had,
364
00:19:30.730 --> 00:19:34.590
she didn't have WomanKind but she had,
365
00:19:34.590 --> 00:19:38.067
she sold feminist books at different events.
366
00:19:40.064 --> 00:19:41.620
Flexibilities.
367
00:19:41.620 --> 00:19:42.453
Right.
368
00:19:42.453 --> 00:19:47.453
And I met her and we just talked, and I don't remember all,
369
00:19:47.780 --> 00:19:51.190
how long it took, but over a period of time we talked.
370
00:19:51.190 --> 00:19:54.300
Like maybe I helped her take books to,
371
00:19:54.300 --> 00:19:56.810
and I was looking to do something,
372
00:19:56.810 --> 00:20:01.013
and I thought doing a feminist bookstore would be great.
373
00:20:02.000 --> 00:20:04.893
And so what happened is,
374
00:20:08.340 --> 00:20:11.500
I bought half of her stock.
375
00:20:11.500 --> 00:20:13.050
But we were partners,
376
00:20:13.050 --> 00:20:16.463
when we first opened she was there with me.
377
00:20:18.150 --> 00:20:23.150
And we didn't, as in many cases,
378
00:20:23.890 --> 00:20:26.560
in a small business like that,
379
00:20:26.560 --> 00:20:30.610
we didn't see eye-to-eye about how to do it.
380
00:20:30.610 --> 00:20:35.060
And I was in a situation where I could offer to buy
381
00:20:36.250 --> 00:20:37.853
the rest of her stock and I did.
382
00:20:39.090 --> 00:20:41.150
But that was like a six month period.
383
00:20:41.150 --> 00:20:42.890
I think, the first six months.
384
00:20:42.890 --> 00:20:45.150
Or first three months, or something like that.
385
00:20:45.150 --> 00:20:47.820
She had a very different picture of what she wanted to do
386
00:20:47.820 --> 00:20:49.250
than what I wanted to do,
387
00:20:49.250 --> 00:20:51.150
and I don't remember the details of it.
388
00:20:51.150 --> 00:20:54.660
But it's a typical partner story.
389
00:20:54.660 --> 00:20:55.800
Okay.
390
00:20:55.800 --> 00:20:59.720
And Joanna didn't get involved involved
391
00:20:59.720 --> 00:21:01.760
doing the bookstore for a little while.
392
00:21:01.760 --> 00:21:04.020
She was teaching at St. Bernard's.
393
00:21:04.020 --> 00:21:05.600
You were with her?
That was my--
394
00:21:05.600 --> 00:21:07.190
Yes.
Already with her?
395
00:21:07.190 --> 00:21:09.960
(chuckling)
396
00:21:09.960 --> 00:21:11.030
I'll have to tell you a story,
397
00:21:11.030 --> 00:21:14.170
'cause this is Ariel, I don't know if you ever see Ariel.
398
00:21:14.170 --> 00:21:16.930
I had never been with a woman, okay.
399
00:21:16.930 --> 00:21:18.040
Never.
400
00:21:18.040 --> 00:21:21.590
But I don't let little things like that interfere
401
00:21:21.590 --> 00:21:22.820
with my desire.
402
00:21:22.820 --> 00:21:25.660
And I was very interested in Cheryl Besas
403
00:21:25.660 --> 00:21:28.700
and Cheryl Besas wasn't available.
404
00:21:28.700 --> 00:21:31.440
Because we didn't know that Gayle was doing her wrong.
405
00:21:31.440 --> 00:21:32.273
Right.
406
00:21:32.273 --> 00:21:35.970
And what happened is, she had a meeting
407
00:21:35.970 --> 00:21:40.360
of people interested in owning, or running,
408
00:21:40.360 --> 00:21:42.307
or starting a woman-owned business.
409
00:21:42.307 --> 00:21:44.010
Now this was before the bookstore.
410
00:21:44.010 --> 00:21:46.790
I was at divinity school, I believe.
411
00:21:46.790 --> 00:21:48.740
Might even been before divinity school.
412
00:21:49.610 --> 00:21:51.023
But Gregory was hurt.
413
00:21:52.350 --> 00:21:56.173
So it was after June of '75.
414
00:21:57.600 --> 00:22:01.100
So Cheryl invites me to this meeting,
415
00:22:01.100 --> 00:22:04.871
which of course I am very interested in attending.
416
00:22:04.871 --> 00:22:07.930
(chuckling)
417
00:22:07.930 --> 00:22:12.930
And I could care less about women's bookstore or anything.
418
00:22:13.120 --> 00:22:14.160
You hadn't thought about it then?
419
00:22:14.160 --> 00:22:15.470
No, I hadn't.
420
00:22:15.470 --> 00:22:17.360
I mean, I wouldn't say that I wasn't interested
421
00:22:17.360 --> 00:22:19.118
in women's bookstores, but I wasn't interested
422
00:22:19.118 --> 00:22:20.101
in a women-owned,
423
00:22:20.101 --> 00:22:23.090
that was not my primary motivating factor
424
00:22:23.090 --> 00:22:25.250
of getting me to this meeting.
425
00:22:25.250 --> 00:22:27.133
And Joanna was there.
426
00:22:31.350 --> 00:22:32.990
Was she out?
427
00:22:32.990 --> 00:22:34.963
Yeah, she was in her, you know,
428
00:22:38.340 --> 00:22:42.893
she was in her, oh God what am I wanting to say?
429
00:22:45.530 --> 00:22:47.273
Militant stage.
Oh, okay.
430
00:22:48.140 --> 00:22:51.160
And so what happened is she was so good looking.
431
00:22:51.160 --> 00:22:53.870
'cause she had taken that,
432
00:22:53.870 --> 00:22:55.650
you know out in Hartsville,
433
00:22:55.650 --> 00:22:58.210
you know remember John and Emily.
434
00:22:58.210 --> 00:22:59.043
Yeah.
You don't know,
435
00:22:59.043 --> 00:23:01.730
well anyway, they had let her use this land
436
00:23:01.730 --> 00:23:04.430
and she built a house on the side of the hill.
437
00:23:04.430 --> 00:23:05.920
Oh, I remember that.
438
00:23:05.920 --> 00:23:10.312
And she had muscles and she was so cool.
439
00:23:10.312 --> 00:23:12.120
(laughing)
Yeah she's beautiful anyway.
440
00:23:12.120 --> 00:23:15.730
And she had long, anyway, I was like quite,
441
00:23:15.730 --> 00:23:17.220
well I wasn't smitten,
442
00:23:17.220 --> 00:23:18.930
'cause I was really interested in Cheryl.
443
00:23:18.930 --> 00:23:21.010
Right.
But that's where I met her.
444
00:23:21.010 --> 00:23:22.030
And she was real neat.
445
00:23:22.030 --> 00:23:24.990
And she walked me out to my car afterwards,
446
00:23:24.990 --> 00:23:27.390
and I thought well hmm, this is (mumbles) woman.
447
00:23:28.730 --> 00:23:29.730
That was it.
448
00:23:29.730 --> 00:23:33.630
Then I left, and I'm friends with Gwen Billack,
449
00:23:33.630 --> 00:23:36.317
who had the photo lab.
450
00:23:36.317 --> 00:23:39.753
And I went down to Gwen's business,
451
00:23:42.360 --> 00:23:44.947
like three days after that,
452
00:23:44.947 --> 00:23:48.560
and there was something I had to pick up, drop off,
453
00:23:48.560 --> 00:23:49.393
I don't remember.
454
00:23:49.393 --> 00:23:50.950
But anyway, I went in
455
00:23:50.950 --> 00:23:53.283
and who comes out of the darkroom but Joanna.
456
00:23:54.160 --> 00:23:57.360
And so Joanna goes, "Would you like to go to lunch?"
457
00:23:57.360 --> 00:23:58.380
Well I couldn't go to lunch.
458
00:23:58.380 --> 00:23:59.220
I don't remember what I was doing
459
00:23:59.220 --> 00:24:00.320
but I couldn't go to lunch.
460
00:24:00.320 --> 00:24:03.147
And I thought, that woman's interested in me.
461
00:24:03.147 --> 00:24:06.147
(laughing)
And so,
462
00:24:07.002 --> 00:24:08.090
you know I left,
463
00:24:08.090 --> 00:24:13.090
and like a week later, what happened is,
464
00:24:15.140 --> 00:24:17.300
where that bar, the other side,
465
00:24:17.300 --> 00:24:21.720
and the church, there was a group of lesbians,
466
00:24:21.720 --> 00:24:24.030
and so they had gotten me to go with them
467
00:24:24.030 --> 00:24:26.653
on Sunday afternoon to this other side.
468
00:24:27.930 --> 00:24:32.250
So I cannot remember why, by myself,
469
00:24:32.250 --> 00:24:34.607
I went to the other side.
470
00:24:34.607 --> 00:24:36.700
Can't imagine that.
But I did it.
471
00:24:36.700 --> 00:24:39.920
And I had my little purse and everything.
472
00:24:39.920 --> 00:24:42.853
And in fact, I should have never,
473
00:24:43.760 --> 00:24:46.240
I had a lesbian try to pick me up,
474
00:24:46.240 --> 00:24:49.660
and when I didn't go with her, she took my purse.
475
00:24:49.660 --> 00:24:50.493
It had my keys
476
00:24:50.493 --> 00:24:51.669
in it.
It was a rough place.
477
00:24:51.669 --> 00:24:52.502
Yeah.
That place
478
00:24:52.502 --> 00:24:53.856
was raided by the police
479
00:24:53.856 --> 00:24:56.440
numerous times.
I threatened the manager.
480
00:24:56.440 --> 00:24:57.727
I said, "You're either taking me home
481
00:24:57.727 --> 00:24:59.910
"or I'm calling the police."
482
00:24:59.910 --> 00:25:02.493
I mean I wasn't that mellow.
483
00:25:05.834 --> 00:25:09.200
So somehow I knew that a group of women
484
00:25:10.440 --> 00:25:11.340
were going down there.
485
00:25:11.340 --> 00:25:13.980
So I went down there by myself,
486
00:25:13.980 --> 00:25:18.350
and went in, and Ariel Coleburn asked me
487
00:25:19.490 --> 00:25:20.700
if I wanted to dance.
488
00:25:20.700 --> 00:25:23.150
And I went onto the dance floor with her
489
00:25:23.150 --> 00:25:27.440
and was dancing and somehow ended up dancing with Joanna.
490
00:25:27.440 --> 00:25:30.100
And ariel disappeared into the,
491
00:25:30.100 --> 00:25:32.188
and you know, then we were history.
492
00:25:32.188 --> 00:25:34.260
(chuckling)
493
00:25:34.260 --> 00:25:35.425
That was quick.
494
00:25:35.425 --> 00:25:36.410
(chuckling)
495
00:25:36.410 --> 00:25:38.280
Well you know, when you haven't been a lesbian,
496
00:25:38.280 --> 00:25:39.337
you are quick.
497
00:25:39.337 --> 00:25:40.810
(laughing)
You are quick
498
00:25:40.810 --> 00:25:42.840
and the next day it's the U-Haul.
499
00:25:42.840 --> 00:25:44.150
Well we almost got there.
500
00:25:44.150 --> 00:25:47.220
I mean we didn't, because of the circumstances I was in
501
00:25:47.220 --> 00:25:50.780
until we moved over on 20, 'cause I lived in Madison.
502
00:25:50.780 --> 00:25:51.963
Madison, Tennessee.
503
00:25:53.570 --> 00:25:55.210
Dinwiddie Drive.
504
00:25:55.210 --> 00:25:57.590
She used to come and visit me in her little Volkswagen
505
00:25:57.590 --> 00:26:00.250
and we would have to push it off in the morning.
506
00:26:00.250 --> 00:26:01.083
Yeah.
507
00:26:01.083 --> 00:26:01.983
That was love.
508
00:26:03.310 --> 00:26:04.700
That was mad love.
509
00:26:04.700 --> 00:26:07.020
And you were just moving into the new house
510
00:26:07.020 --> 00:26:08.230
when we had that meeting.
511
00:26:08.230 --> 00:26:09.063
Yep.
512
00:26:09.063 --> 00:26:10.740
'Cause I remember there was almost no furniture--
513
00:26:10.740 --> 00:26:13.153
We had never did have very much.
514
00:26:14.160 --> 00:26:17.930
For the support project, we had 150 women that came.
515
00:26:17.930 --> 00:26:19.300
I don't know if you know that.
516
00:26:19.300 --> 00:26:21.400
And it was straight and lesbian.
517
00:26:21.400 --> 00:26:23.739
Okay now, we're coming back to the topic
518
00:26:23.739 --> 00:26:25.473
of the project.
Right.
519
00:26:26.380 --> 00:26:27.213
Okay.
The activism.
520
00:26:27.213 --> 00:26:32.213
You had said that WomanKind Books was spread out,
521
00:26:32.260 --> 00:26:34.380
influenced other things so the woman,
522
00:26:34.380 --> 00:26:35.810
this support group.
523
00:26:35.810 --> 00:26:36.920
Need to talk about that.
524
00:26:36.920 --> 00:26:38.360
I need to hear about what it was
525
00:26:38.360 --> 00:26:39.907
and why it was.
Okay, so,
526
00:26:41.902 --> 00:26:42.735
what one of the things,
527
00:26:42.735 --> 00:26:47.735
okay, so what happened was that I went to divinity school.
528
00:26:48.360 --> 00:26:52.450
I couldn't stand the male stuff.
529
00:26:52.450 --> 00:26:56.250
I met other women like Kris Mottisher, and Della Hughes,
530
00:26:56.250 --> 00:27:01.250
and folks from the, from Edgehill United Methodist.
531
00:27:02.550 --> 00:27:07.483
We went to conferences, you know, where Mary Daily was.
532
00:27:08.860 --> 00:27:13.860
There was just a lot of bubbling up of feminism
533
00:27:15.170 --> 00:27:17.073
at the time in Nashville.
534
00:27:18.550 --> 00:27:22.490
I went, I had a son that got electrocuted
535
00:27:22.490 --> 00:27:25.540
and lived for a year, never gained consciousness.
536
00:27:25.540 --> 00:27:26.590
That was when the stuff...
537
00:27:26.590 --> 00:27:29.600
And before that, I had never been a lesbian.
538
00:27:29.600 --> 00:27:31.616
I mean, maybe in my heart, but nowhere else.
539
00:27:31.616 --> 00:27:32.770
This is 1975 right?
540
00:27:32.770 --> 00:27:34.910
This is in 1975.
541
00:27:34.910 --> 00:27:39.910
So what happened then that I was a representative
542
00:27:40.720 --> 00:27:43.670
from Edgehill to a conference
543
00:27:43.670 --> 00:27:46.513
that happens every year with Methodists.
544
00:27:47.580 --> 00:27:50.410
And I represented Edgehill United Methodist.
545
00:27:50.410 --> 00:27:53.390
And there was a night meeting,
546
00:27:53.390 --> 00:27:57.850
and the night meeting was over at Scarritt College,
547
00:27:57.850 --> 00:27:59.070
I wanna say it's Scarritt College,
548
00:27:59.070 --> 00:28:00.940
I might be wrong about that.
549
00:28:00.940 --> 00:28:05.350
And a woman from New York, from the women's division,
550
00:28:05.350 --> 00:28:10.350
see the Methodists, at that time, out of New York,
551
00:28:11.640 --> 00:28:16.640
out of the national offices were very, very invested
552
00:28:16.640 --> 00:28:18.053
in supporting women.
553
00:28:20.560 --> 00:28:25.363
And integrating them into participation in organizations
554
00:28:28.510 --> 00:28:32.720
and activism, all those kinds of things.
555
00:28:32.720 --> 00:28:36.920
And I actually, Randy Rogers, my friend,
556
00:28:36.920 --> 00:28:41.050
and Collen Water were also participants in that.
557
00:28:41.050 --> 00:28:42.650
At the same meeting you went to?
558
00:28:42.650 --> 00:28:46.140
Not that meeting, itself, but just that general milieu
559
00:28:46.140 --> 00:28:49.820
of activism within church women.
560
00:28:49.820 --> 00:28:52.669
Like I did, oh you know what I did?
561
00:28:52.669 --> 00:28:53.502
Church Women United?
562
00:28:53.502 --> 00:28:54.730
Church Women United,
563
00:28:54.730 --> 00:28:56.200
and let me tell you what I did.
564
00:28:56.200 --> 00:28:58.950
This was something I did before I was a lesbian.
565
00:28:58.950 --> 00:29:01.090
And I did it through Carleen.
566
00:29:01.090 --> 00:29:04.003
I went around to churches, and in fact,
567
00:29:05.210 --> 00:29:06.800
Cali Hutchinson was,
568
00:29:06.800 --> 00:29:11.250
and there was a strawberry blonde woman,
569
00:29:11.250 --> 00:29:14.480
wore short hair, what was her name?
570
00:29:14.480 --> 00:29:16.270
She was also at Edgehill.
571
00:29:16.270 --> 00:29:18.083
Anyway, I got them to participate.
572
00:29:20.810 --> 00:29:23.030
Carleen wanted me to do this program,
573
00:29:23.030 --> 00:29:27.160
which I ended up doing all over Nashville at churches.
574
00:29:27.160 --> 00:29:30.160
And it was about women in the church.
575
00:29:30.160 --> 00:29:35.160
And we got a divorced woman, a single woman,
576
00:29:35.780 --> 00:29:38.203
and when we could, we got a lesbian.
577
00:29:39.160 --> 00:29:43.453
And we had them speak to their experience in the church.
578
00:29:44.330 --> 00:29:46.460
Because right at, what happened is,
579
00:29:46.460 --> 00:29:49.700
I would get these straight women who had been very active
580
00:29:49.700 --> 00:29:51.880
in their churches with their husbands,
581
00:29:51.880 --> 00:29:54.823
their husband dies and their church cuts 'em off.
582
00:29:55.830 --> 00:29:59.300
And so we talked about those things in the big churches.
583
00:29:59.300 --> 00:30:03.410
So that was really when I started connecting
584
00:30:03.410 --> 00:30:06.040
with some of the lesbians at Edgehill,
585
00:30:06.040 --> 00:30:08.923
and got them to speak in those groups.
586
00:30:10.090 --> 00:30:14.783
So, we talked about the three stages of life in women.
587
00:30:15.670 --> 00:30:20.670
You're single, then you're married, and then you're a widow.
588
00:30:20.720 --> 00:30:23.600
And we talked about that, that how much
589
00:30:23.600 --> 00:30:26.083
of all women's lives were single.
590
00:30:27.520 --> 00:30:30.980
And I did all this research and we talked about that.
591
00:30:30.980 --> 00:30:34.062
And that was significant, even though it was straight.
592
00:30:34.062 --> 00:30:36.400
The focus was from straight women.
593
00:30:36.400 --> 00:30:38.027
Probably if we would start talking about lesbians,
594
00:30:38.027 --> 00:30:40.127
they all would've freaked out.
595
00:30:40.127 --> 00:30:41.890
I thought you said they had lesbians on them.
596
00:30:41.890 --> 00:30:44.323
I did have lesbians but I didn't advocate it.
597
00:30:45.290 --> 00:30:48.563
What I had them speak to was never marrying.
598
00:30:49.526 --> 00:30:50.359
Oh.
599
00:30:51.790 --> 00:30:54.540
Never marrying.
But you had a divorced one.
600
00:30:54.540 --> 00:30:55.373
Mm hm.
601
00:30:56.440 --> 00:30:58.700
Why was she talking about never marrying?
602
00:30:58.700 --> 00:31:03.700
No, I had a woman who was married and then widowed.
603
00:31:06.390 --> 00:31:09.201
And I had a woman who never married.
604
00:31:09.201 --> 00:31:11.460
And then I had women that were divorced.
605
00:31:11.460 --> 00:31:12.293
Okay.
606
00:31:12.293 --> 00:31:14.340
And what the focus was,
607
00:31:14.340 --> 00:31:17.780
was not whether they were lesbians or not,
608
00:31:17.780 --> 00:31:21.130
but rather that in a woman's life,
609
00:31:21.130 --> 00:31:24.210
no matter how right she does everything,
610
00:31:24.210 --> 00:31:26.670
she is still going to be single
611
00:31:26.670 --> 00:31:29.770
in a culture that gives women value
612
00:31:29.770 --> 00:31:31.613
because of who they're married to.
613
00:31:33.030 --> 00:31:36.420
And that was because of the population.
614
00:31:36.420 --> 00:31:41.420
That was church women in big churches there in Nashville.
615
00:31:43.050 --> 00:31:48.050
But that occurred just before I went to divinity school.
616
00:31:48.150 --> 00:31:49.510
Just before Gregory got hurt.
617
00:31:49.510 --> 00:31:54.510
So Gregory got hurt in June of '65, '75.
618
00:31:54.780 --> 00:31:58.423
And that for me is a watershed time,
619
00:31:59.300 --> 00:32:03.610
because I was so devastated.
620
00:32:03.610 --> 00:32:06.020
And actually, that's when I got to know Jan,
621
00:32:06.020 --> 00:32:08.547
because Joanna lived with Jan.
622
00:32:12.160 --> 00:32:12.993
They were roommates.
623
00:32:12.993 --> 00:32:14.458
Mm hm, sure did.
624
00:32:14.458 --> 00:32:16.530
And that's how I found out,
625
00:32:16.530 --> 00:32:20.730
I mean I knew this Sherry person from these public meetings
626
00:32:20.730 --> 00:32:22.003
about where we wanted,
627
00:32:23.320 --> 00:32:26.790
see Sherry, and I may be saying her name wrong,
628
00:32:26.790 --> 00:32:31.790
was very active in the Rape Crisis Center
629
00:32:34.200 --> 00:32:38.576
that housed the Women's Center.
630
00:32:38.576 --> 00:32:40.000
Or it's the other way around I think.
631
00:32:40.000 --> 00:32:40.833
Or however.
632
00:32:40.833 --> 00:32:42.613
The Women's Center, it house the rape crisis--
633
00:32:42.613 --> 00:32:43.950
Right.
634
00:32:43.950 --> 00:32:45.540
Right, but--
And I'm sure I know
635
00:32:45.540 --> 00:32:46.970
who Sherry is, but it's--
Yeah.
636
00:32:46.970 --> 00:32:49.205
And she was very radical,
637
00:32:49.205 --> 00:32:50.210
and Carley and all them
638
00:32:50.210 --> 00:32:53.530
just felt like she was just too extreme.
639
00:32:53.530 --> 00:32:55.440
She was quite something.
640
00:32:55.440 --> 00:32:57.360
And I went to several meetings
641
00:32:57.360 --> 00:32:59.160
where there was discussions about why we,
642
00:32:59.160 --> 00:33:01.610
and I probably said something about lower income
643
00:33:01.610 --> 00:33:03.260
and all that, 'cause I was always known
644
00:33:03.260 --> 00:33:05.540
for bringing that up.
645
00:33:05.540 --> 00:33:09.670
But that was the closest that I got until Joanna.
646
00:33:09.670 --> 00:33:14.090
And then Joanna had just broken up with Harrison
647
00:33:15.290 --> 00:33:16.740
prior to me.
648
00:33:16.740 --> 00:33:18.609
I mean I didn't know Harrison at all.
649
00:33:18.609 --> 00:33:21.450
(mumbles)
650
00:33:21.450 --> 00:33:26.450
So, '75 was really the beginning,
651
00:33:27.960 --> 00:33:32.850
I mean prior to that, say from 1970, '75,
652
00:33:32.850 --> 00:33:37.850
I'd done democratic organizing and the church thing.
653
00:33:40.590 --> 00:33:43.560
The meetings where we talked about women being single
654
00:33:43.560 --> 00:33:45.930
for a third of their lives.
655
00:33:45.930 --> 00:33:50.420
And I was on the commission
656
00:33:50.420 --> 00:33:55.140
for women that was a Methodist sponsored process,
657
00:33:58.950 --> 00:34:01.223
and then Gregory got hurt.
658
00:34:03.070 --> 00:34:05.730
I was working at Scarritt College.
659
00:34:05.730 --> 00:34:08.840
Gregory was in the hospital for seven months,
660
00:34:08.840 --> 00:34:11.980
and then home for five, and then he died
661
00:34:11.980 --> 00:34:13.630
in June of '75, no '76, June '76.
662
00:34:17.080 --> 00:34:19.490
'Cause he got hurt in June of '75,
663
00:34:19.490 --> 00:34:21.492
so he lived almost a year, a year,
664
00:34:21.492 --> 00:34:23.453
in fact he did live a year.
665
00:34:24.870 --> 00:34:26.213
My lil' baby boy.
666
00:34:27.300 --> 00:34:32.300
So it was really during that time after he got hurt
667
00:34:33.040 --> 00:34:36.930
that I kind of, before that I don't think I,
668
00:34:36.930 --> 00:34:39.280
I don't think until Gregory got hurt,
669
00:34:39.280 --> 00:34:41.830
I really ever seriously considered being a lesbian.
670
00:34:44.520 --> 00:34:47.680
My family wouldn't have, you know I had so little family.
671
00:34:47.680 --> 00:34:51.667
It was Wayne's parents and I just,
672
00:34:55.390 --> 00:34:57.133
I don't know, never thought of it.
673
00:34:58.312 --> 00:35:02.450
And me, even after TJ, which I did think of,
674
00:35:02.450 --> 00:35:04.540
but that was like when I was in high school.
675
00:35:04.540 --> 00:35:08.123
And then I was thwarted and had to go to,
676
00:35:10.120 --> 00:35:12.137
who's the guy that sings "Born to Lose"?
677
00:35:13.680 --> 00:35:15.720
(chuckling)
678
00:35:15.720 --> 00:35:18.340
So I felt I was born to lose when it came to lesbians.
679
00:35:18.340 --> 00:35:19.540
And guess what?
680
00:35:19.540 --> 00:35:21.868
I'm 67 tomorrow and I still think that.
681
00:35:21.868 --> 00:35:23.761
(laughing)
682
00:35:23.761 --> 00:35:25.478
And in a 15 year relationship.
683
00:35:25.478 --> 00:35:30.478
20, 20 with Nancy, I mean Joanne, 15 with her.
684
00:35:34.520 --> 00:35:36.276
I say that I am.
685
00:35:36.276 --> 00:35:37.225
Not in monotony.
686
00:35:37.225 --> 00:35:38.843
Yeah, not in monopoly.
687
00:35:41.405 --> 00:35:43.110
Monopoly.
(laughing)
688
00:35:43.110 --> 00:35:45.940
But you know what, this is what I say,
689
00:35:45.940 --> 00:35:50.940
I am an indiscriminate failure with both men and women.
690
00:35:51.532 --> 00:35:53.784
(laughing)
691
00:35:53.784 --> 00:35:55.986
I would so disagree with you.
692
00:35:55.986 --> 00:35:56.821
Seriously.
693
00:35:56.821 --> 00:35:57.810
I don't know about the men part.
694
00:35:57.810 --> 00:35:59.470
I'm just making a joke
695
00:35:59.470 --> 00:36:02.473
I'm gonna disagree on tape about that.
696
00:36:02.473 --> 00:36:04.580
(laughing)
697
00:36:04.580 --> 00:36:07.093
Well, oh God,
698
00:36:09.695 --> 00:36:11.500
I won't say any more.
699
00:36:11.500 --> 00:36:13.750
(chuckles)
700
00:36:15.850 --> 00:36:18.900
And I have had longterm relationships pretty much.
701
00:36:18.900 --> 00:36:20.463
Yeah.
702
00:36:20.463 --> 00:36:21.653
It's my nature.
703
00:36:22.760 --> 00:36:25.242
Okay, go back to where you were talking about,
704
00:36:25.242 --> 00:36:27.158
(mumbles)
705
00:36:27.158 --> 00:36:29.491
WomanKind Books and you met,
706
00:36:30.482 --> 00:36:32.426
you were talking about meeting in one of the conference,
707
00:36:32.426 --> 00:36:34.560
you went in together but they didn't last very long.
708
00:36:34.560 --> 00:36:37.020
Then you went off on how you met Kris Mottisher
709
00:36:37.020 --> 00:36:39.003
and Della while you were in divinity school.
710
00:36:39.003 --> 00:36:41.260
What did that have to do with WomanKind Books?
711
00:36:41.260 --> 00:36:42.130
Okay.
There was this meeting.
712
00:36:42.130 --> 00:36:42.990
There was this woman
713
00:36:42.990 --> 00:36:43.823
from New York.
Okay.
714
00:36:43.823 --> 00:36:44.980
All right, let's go back.
715
00:36:44.980 --> 00:36:49.240
I, when Gregory got hurt, the reason that it happened,
716
00:36:49.240 --> 00:36:51.330
I mean that's not the reason it happened,
717
00:36:51.330 --> 00:36:55.523
but the circumstances of it are that I was a,
718
00:36:57.720 --> 00:37:02.720
the firs time that I met Chris T. was at a public meeting
719
00:37:03.640 --> 00:37:07.740
about the Rape Crisis Center.
720
00:37:07.740 --> 00:37:10.060
He's only like seven years old, is that right?
721
00:37:10.060 --> 00:37:11.770
Yeah, he was seven, just about to turn eight
722
00:37:11.770 --> 00:37:13.000
when he got hurt.
723
00:37:13.000 --> 00:37:15.380
And Carl was three years older.
724
00:37:15.380 --> 00:37:19.360
So prior to Gregory getting hurt,
725
00:37:19.360 --> 00:37:22.163
I had already started going to Edgehill,
726
00:37:23.092 --> 00:37:26.600
and I had already met some lesbians.
727
00:37:26.600 --> 00:37:29.360
And I'd already been active.
728
00:37:29.360 --> 00:37:31.940
I went to that meeting,
729
00:37:31.940 --> 00:37:34.380
Christine actually told me
730
00:37:34.380 --> 00:37:35.980
that's where she remembered me from.
731
00:37:35.980 --> 00:37:38.230
And I don't remember her that strongly,
732
00:37:38.230 --> 00:37:40.623
but she was involved somehow in that.
733
00:37:41.460 --> 00:37:46.460
And so what I'm saying is there was parallels
734
00:37:47.220 --> 00:37:50.560
at that time already with people
735
00:37:50.560 --> 00:37:53.530
that I became much more active with,
736
00:37:53.530 --> 00:37:58.530
shortly, unbeknownst to us that that was going to occur.
737
00:37:58.650 --> 00:38:03.650
I also did, at that time, I also did some stuff
738
00:38:04.070 --> 00:38:05.740
with nursing homes.
739
00:38:05.740 --> 00:38:07.563
And that was with Victoria Webb.
740
00:38:10.248 --> 00:38:11.400
This is before '75?
741
00:38:11.400 --> 00:38:13.430
This is before' 75.
742
00:38:13.430 --> 00:38:17.580
But I'm just tryna give you the pieces of activism.
743
00:38:17.580 --> 00:38:22.580
So the other thing is I did a lot of voter registration
744
00:38:22.660 --> 00:38:27.660
and I was active with this democratic women's group
745
00:38:29.060 --> 00:38:32.810
that was a liberal group that Carleen Waller
746
00:38:32.810 --> 00:38:34.670
was the queen bee of.
747
00:38:34.670 --> 00:38:36.580
And I'm using that term intentionally.
748
00:38:36.580 --> 00:38:38.260
C-A-R-L-I-N?
749
00:38:38.260 --> 00:38:41.210
Carleen, C-A-R-L-E-E-N Wall--
750
00:38:41.210 --> 00:38:44.669
I thought it was E-N-E but you know better I'm sure.
751
00:38:44.669 --> 00:38:45.748
I think it's two Es.
752
00:38:45.748 --> 00:38:46.630
Okay.
753
00:38:46.630 --> 00:38:47.463
Waller.
754
00:38:47.463 --> 00:38:48.296
Waller.
755
00:38:48.296 --> 00:38:50.140
And she's no longer living either.
756
00:38:50.140 --> 00:38:51.990
She was the head of that democratic women's group?
757
00:38:51.990 --> 00:38:53.030
Yes.
758
00:38:53.030 --> 00:38:58.030
And she was a force, because the democratic party itself,
759
00:38:58.710 --> 00:39:01.070
was more conservative,
760
00:39:01.070 --> 00:39:04.600
even though it was liberal relative to the state.
761
00:39:04.600 --> 00:39:07.513
But this women's group was really liberal.
762
00:39:11.160 --> 00:39:14.530
And at the same time, I was active
763
00:39:14.530 --> 00:39:17.280
in the Church Women United
764
00:39:17.280 --> 00:39:20.213
and a Methodist women's group.
765
00:39:21.320 --> 00:39:24.470
So all of those were supporting younger women,
766
00:39:24.470 --> 00:39:25.820
like myself at the time.
767
00:39:25.820 --> 00:39:28.240
I was a younger woman at that time.
768
00:39:28.240 --> 00:39:33.240
And that was where the church meetings
769
00:39:35.230 --> 00:39:38.520
where would talk about women's role in the church,
770
00:39:38.520 --> 00:39:40.470
where we would talk about they were gonna be single
771
00:39:40.470 --> 00:39:44.313
for a third of their lives, and got women to speak to that.
772
00:39:46.071 --> 00:39:47.660
And I did stuff on television,
773
00:39:47.660 --> 00:39:50.330
and radio, and stuff like that,
774
00:39:50.330 --> 00:39:51.573
connected with all that.
775
00:39:54.410 --> 00:39:56.580
So then Gregory got hurt.
776
00:39:56.580 --> 00:39:58.690
So what happened is, I went to this,
777
00:39:58.690 --> 00:39:59.923
this is really weird,
778
00:40:01.230 --> 00:40:05.140
I was a representative for Edgehill to this conference,
779
00:40:05.140 --> 00:40:07.130
this regional, you know, like every year
780
00:40:07.130 --> 00:40:09.740
they tell the ministers where they're gonna go,
781
00:40:09.740 --> 00:40:10.980
what church they're gonna have,
782
00:40:10.980 --> 00:40:13.193
and you do all the rules for the next year.
783
00:40:14.270 --> 00:40:15.110
That's what this was.
784
00:40:15.110 --> 00:40:17.150
And then every three years they have the one
785
00:40:17.150 --> 00:40:18.460
where everybody fights over
786
00:40:18.460 --> 00:40:22.220
whether they're gonna ordain ministers
787
00:40:22.220 --> 00:40:26.513
and all that kinda stuff, the national issues.
788
00:40:27.870 --> 00:40:30.023
But this meeting was at night.
789
00:40:31.000 --> 00:40:36.000
And, it was a required attendance
790
00:40:37.960 --> 00:40:39.630
and I had the boys.
791
00:40:39.630 --> 00:40:43.080
It was summertime and so they stayed
792
00:40:43.080 --> 00:40:45.760
with this friend of mine, Dona Brennon,
793
00:40:45.760 --> 00:40:48.543
and she had to go, she was working at,
794
00:40:49.800 --> 00:40:54.280
God what was the place that was, not Dollywood,
795
00:40:54.280 --> 00:40:58.980
but it was out on,
796
00:40:58.980 --> 00:41:02.773
it's not the Grand Ole Opry, but you know it was a,
797
00:41:06.200 --> 00:41:07.204
y'all don't remember this place?
798
00:41:07.204 --> 00:41:08.308
Just skip it.
799
00:41:08.308 --> 00:41:09.141
(laughing)
800
00:41:09.141 --> 00:41:11.356
What was the woman from New York talking about
801
00:41:11.356 --> 00:41:12.967
(laughing) to keep withholding this?
802
00:41:12.967 --> 00:41:15.310
(laughing) Okay, okay, no no no, I'm not withholding.
803
00:41:15.310 --> 00:41:16.143
I promise.
804
00:41:16.143 --> 00:41:17.161
Okay.
Okay, I'm just--
805
00:41:17.161 --> 00:41:18.410
You're not talking about Opryland?
806
00:41:18.410 --> 00:41:19.480
Yeah, Opryland.
807
00:41:19.480 --> 00:41:24.190
So Dona and Sarah worked at Opryland,
808
00:41:24.190 --> 00:41:26.230
so they had to be at work at six o'clock.
809
00:41:26.230 --> 00:41:31.230
So Dona took care, I'm there, I'm like five seconds from it.
810
00:41:33.200 --> 00:41:38.200
Dona was gonna watch the boys while I went to this meeting
811
00:41:38.330 --> 00:41:43.330
from this speaker from New York women's division
812
00:41:44.040 --> 00:41:46.630
was speaking and she was phenomenal.
813
00:41:46.630 --> 00:41:51.590
So I get there and I'm sitting in the church,
814
00:41:51.590 --> 00:41:54.690
and I'm sort of like doing this meditation thing,
815
00:41:54.690 --> 00:41:57.690
and I have this thought come into my mind.
816
00:41:57.690 --> 00:42:01.070
If I had to lose one of my children, which one would it be?
817
00:42:01.070 --> 00:42:02.600
This is the thought that came into my,
818
00:42:02.600 --> 00:42:04.750
it didn't even phase me.
Wow.
819
00:42:04.750 --> 00:42:07.133
And so I'm thinking about Gregory,
820
00:42:08.410 --> 00:42:10.910
and then I think about Carl and I couldn't decide.
821
00:42:12.140 --> 00:42:13.446
And then she came,
822
00:42:13.446 --> 00:42:14.843
(mumbles)
and spoke.
823
00:42:15.990 --> 00:42:18.129
And they were gonna spend the night
824
00:42:18.129 --> 00:42:21.270
and I was gonna come and pick 'em up at eight o'clock
825
00:42:21.270 --> 00:42:24.700
in the morning, because I had to go to the conference thing
826
00:42:24.700 --> 00:42:26.700
and I was taking them to the Boy's Club.
827
00:42:28.350 --> 00:42:31.120
So I'm living in Madison,
828
00:42:31.120 --> 00:42:35.530
Dona's house is, you know where Scarritt College was?
829
00:42:35.530 --> 00:42:37.003
It was the street right,
830
00:42:39.504 --> 00:42:40.620
I don't remember what the street was.
831
00:42:40.620 --> 00:42:44.297
Anyway that's where she lived.
Oh it's 24th and (mumbles).
832
00:42:44.297 --> 00:42:45.470
Something like that.
833
00:42:45.470 --> 00:42:46.710
Anyway that area.
834
00:42:46.710 --> 00:42:50.720
And so, I was driving home and I thought,
835
00:42:50.720 --> 00:42:52.603
I should go get Carl and Gregory.
836
00:42:54.251 --> 00:42:57.090
And I thought, oh no, I'll disturb Dona,
837
00:42:57.090 --> 00:42:58.970
she's tryna sleep.
838
00:42:58.970 --> 00:43:01.993
I should just wait and do what we agreed to in the morning.
839
00:43:04.740 --> 00:43:07.000
I go home, I get in the bed.
840
00:43:07.000 --> 00:43:09.860
I probably woke up four times
841
00:43:09.860 --> 00:43:11.800
feeling like I should go get Gregory,
842
00:43:11.800 --> 00:43:14.923
and I thought Gregory, not Carl and Gregory.
843
00:43:15.984 --> 00:43:19.280
And at eight o'clock Carl calls me screaming,
844
00:43:19.280 --> 00:43:21.123
he had gotten electrocuted.
845
00:43:23.450 --> 00:43:26.410
But, that was significant.
846
00:43:26.410 --> 00:43:29.130
That's a significant line for me,
847
00:43:29.130 --> 00:43:32.370
because I probably never would've been a lesbian.
848
00:43:32.370 --> 00:43:33.970
I mean, how do we know, you know
849
00:43:33.970 --> 00:43:36.700
if I'd met somebody and it would've whatever.
850
00:43:36.700 --> 00:43:38.860
But I never acted on it
851
00:43:38.860 --> 00:43:40.760
for the first thirty years of my life,
852
00:43:47.600 --> 00:43:50.283
and Joanna was so sweet to me,
853
00:43:51.700 --> 00:43:54.483
I mean she was really quite something.
854
00:43:55.460 --> 00:44:00.460
And so that was the universe provided that for me,
855
00:44:01.850 --> 00:44:03.440
that's how I felt.
856
00:44:03.440 --> 00:44:06.680
And I wanted to, when I was in,
857
00:44:06.680 --> 00:44:08.380
when Gregory was in the hospital,
858
00:44:08.380 --> 00:44:11.310
he was in the hospital for seven months,
859
00:44:11.310 --> 00:44:16.080
and they used to have these chaplains come around
860
00:44:17.440 --> 00:44:19.980
that were piss poor.
861
00:44:21.570 --> 00:44:22.423
You know they, first of all,
862
00:44:22.423 --> 00:44:24.420
they didn't know what to do with somebody
863
00:44:24.420 --> 00:44:28.490
that had this beautiful child that was damaged.
864
00:44:28.490 --> 00:44:32.993
And their whole level of spirituality was so
865
00:44:43.220 --> 00:44:44.053
Lame?
866
00:44:45.330 --> 00:44:46.163
Very lame.
867
00:44:47.130 --> 00:44:47.963
Very lame.
868
00:44:49.660 --> 00:44:53.010
So, I would be in this hospital
869
00:44:53.010 --> 00:44:55.240
and there was this room, and there was this little baby,
870
00:44:55.240 --> 00:44:57.920
that had the same disease
871
00:44:57.920 --> 00:45:01.330
that Jacqueline Kennedy's child died from.
872
00:45:01.330 --> 00:45:03.002
You know, where the lungs don't develop?
873
00:45:03.002 --> 00:45:04.060
Mm hm.
874
00:45:04.060 --> 00:45:09.060
And this little baby and Gregory were in the same room
875
00:45:09.617 --> 00:45:11.373
and I mostly came at night.
876
00:45:12.570 --> 00:45:15.926
And it was a holy space,
877
00:45:15.926 --> 00:45:18.980
that's the only thing I can tell you about that space.
878
00:45:18.980 --> 00:45:22.470
But I used to wanna kill those chaplains
879
00:45:22.470 --> 00:45:23.330
that would come in.
880
00:45:23.330 --> 00:45:26.140
And they would just spout platitudes,
881
00:45:26.140 --> 00:45:28.700
you know, just bullshit.
882
00:45:28.700 --> 00:45:31.480
And it was before I could learn
883
00:45:31.480 --> 00:45:33.663
to not be polite to everyone.
884
00:45:34.730 --> 00:45:39.730
And so, I decided that I was gonna go to divinity school
885
00:45:42.720 --> 00:45:43.800
and become a chaplain
886
00:45:44.690 --> 00:45:48.563
so that I could be in those rooms with those folks.
887
00:45:49.450 --> 00:45:52.013
Do it right.
But I couldn't do it.
888
00:45:52.013 --> 00:45:54.550
I mean I wasn't, I didn't have the fortitude
889
00:45:54.550 --> 00:45:56.100
to get through divinity school.
890
00:45:57.870 --> 00:46:00.643
But at Vanderbilt, at that time,
891
00:46:01.650 --> 00:46:03.130
there was a great deal about people.
892
00:46:03.130 --> 00:46:03.963
There was a woman
893
00:46:03.963 --> 00:46:06.990
that was appointed Dean, I think of the Liberal Arts
894
00:46:06.990 --> 00:46:08.450
and they threw her out.
895
00:46:08.450 --> 00:46:11.693
And I was part of a conscious-raising group
896
00:46:11.693 --> 00:46:15.250
that was mostly professors.
897
00:46:15.250 --> 00:46:17.720
And the whole discussion of,
898
00:46:17.720 --> 00:46:20.700
one woman was a Dean of Students
899
00:46:20.700 --> 00:46:25.700
and she did her Master's on self esteem.
900
00:46:31.498 --> 00:46:34.550
Her focus was on artists, women artists.
901
00:46:34.550 --> 00:46:37.700
And the stronger their self-esteem was,
902
00:46:37.700 --> 00:46:39.920
the better artists they were.
903
00:46:39.920 --> 00:46:41.523
I thought that was interesting.
904
00:46:43.430 --> 00:46:45.960
So I met a lot of women at Vanderbilt.
905
00:46:45.960 --> 00:46:50.730
And in addition to that, before Gregory got hurt,
906
00:46:50.730 --> 00:46:52.930
I was active with this group, I met this guy,
907
00:46:52.930 --> 00:46:54.053
his name was Bill,
908
00:46:58.080 --> 00:46:59.950
this red-headed guy, he was a doctor.
909
00:46:59.950 --> 00:47:02.220
And he, I don't know where I met him,
910
00:47:02.220 --> 00:47:04.660
somewhere along with Carleen Waller.
911
00:47:04.660 --> 00:47:08.260
And they had an organization at Vanderbilt
912
00:47:08.260 --> 00:47:11.403
that was an outreach group for,
913
00:47:13.960 --> 00:47:15.907
it's how I actually met Susan Schewel
914
00:47:15.907 --> 00:47:18.150
and Betsy Brock actually.
915
00:47:18.150 --> 00:47:22.840
Because this group, they would take college students,
916
00:47:22.840 --> 00:47:25.130
and place 'em like in the summer
917
00:47:25.130 --> 00:47:30.130
to work like in a mill town or other places
918
00:47:32.240 --> 00:47:37.240
to help them address whatever those issues were
919
00:47:38.340 --> 00:47:39.830
in that town or that city.
920
00:47:39.830 --> 00:47:41.803
And there were a lot of stuff like that
921
00:47:41.803 --> 00:47:46.193
in healthcare issues in Tennessee.
922
00:47:47.890 --> 00:47:52.890
And so I almost went to work for them doing outreach stuff.
923
00:47:54.060 --> 00:47:57.570
Now that was just prior to Gregory getting hurt,
924
00:47:57.570 --> 00:48:01.770
and so I knew folks from that arena
925
00:48:01.770 --> 00:48:02.890
and they were activist.
926
00:48:02.890 --> 00:48:06.270
And that was where the large contingency
927
00:48:06.270 --> 00:48:10.143
of healthcare people came to WomanKind Support Project.
928
00:48:12.680 --> 00:48:13.810
Can you just talk about that,
929
00:48:13.810 --> 00:48:15.020
the WomanKind Support Project,
930
00:48:15.020 --> 00:48:16.090
'cause you keep referring to it,
931
00:48:16.090 --> 00:48:17.289
I have no idea what it is.
932
00:48:17.289 --> 00:48:19.640
(laughing)
Okay, so the bookstore,
933
00:48:19.640 --> 00:48:21.160
so what happened with the bookstore,
934
00:48:21.160 --> 00:48:24.720
which is WomanKind Books and--
935
00:48:24.720 --> 00:48:25.890
WomanKind is one word?
936
00:48:25.890 --> 00:48:26.723
Yes.
937
00:48:26.723 --> 00:48:28.710
It keeps making it two on here.
938
00:48:28.710 --> 00:48:29.910
Yeah, it will do that.
939
00:48:31.080 --> 00:48:32.580
Wonder where I put that stuff.
940
00:48:33.530 --> 00:48:34.363
I'll show you.
941
00:48:40.000 --> 00:48:42.516
Everybody's like that so we cannot keep them from talking.
942
00:48:42.516 --> 00:48:44.849
(chuckling)
943
00:48:46.633 --> 00:48:49.723
Give yourself some firmness injections.
944
00:48:51.346 --> 00:48:52.923
Signment injections.
945
00:48:55.260 --> 00:48:56.093
Oh yeah.
946
00:48:56.093 --> 00:48:56.926
Oh good.
947
00:48:58.515 --> 00:49:00.010
And here is one of the women.
948
00:49:00.010 --> 00:49:04.853
One of the things we had was a monthly coffee house.
949
00:49:05.810 --> 00:49:08.223
And that was the coffee house that I wrote about.
950
00:49:11.950 --> 00:49:15.610
And we did this with support from the Unitarian Church.
951
00:49:15.610 --> 00:49:16.630
Oh, cool.
Okay.
952
00:49:16.630 --> 00:49:21.630
So what happened is with the WomanKind Support Project
953
00:49:21.710 --> 00:49:25.063
is we opened a bookstore, okay?
954
00:49:26.240 --> 00:49:31.120
We developed a mailing list of women across,
955
00:49:31.120 --> 00:49:34.060
now this was before Amazon,
956
00:49:34.060 --> 00:49:37.740
this was before individual publishing houses,
957
00:49:37.740 --> 00:49:39.693
you could find them easily.
958
00:49:40.900 --> 00:49:45.900
So we developed a mailing list in the bookstore
959
00:49:46.150 --> 00:49:49.543
of a thousand women all over Tennessee.
960
00:49:50.430 --> 00:49:55.430
And people were always coming in wanting to get referrals
961
00:49:55.560 --> 00:50:00.560
to women doctors, to therapists, and to lawyers.
962
00:50:05.160 --> 00:50:09.500
I was very interested in the whole spirituality stuff.
963
00:50:09.500 --> 00:50:11.363
I was interested in politics.
964
00:50:14.540 --> 00:50:18.987
And we had men come to the bookstore at times.
965
00:50:21.450 --> 00:50:25.640
I can remember a guy came in, he was in tears almost.
966
00:50:25.640 --> 00:50:28.590
His wife was having an affair with a woman
967
00:50:29.570 --> 00:50:32.910
and he felt like, you know, what was wrong with him,
968
00:50:32.910 --> 00:50:33.950
and that kind of thing.
969
00:50:33.950 --> 00:50:37.950
We had women come in, they'd come in from Hartsville
970
00:50:37.950 --> 00:50:42.950
or from Lebanon, or even further west towards Meryll,
971
00:50:43.750 --> 00:50:45.890
and they would close the door,
972
00:50:45.890 --> 00:50:50.133
and they would like, oh my God, I'm saved.
973
00:50:51.140 --> 00:50:54.133
And so it was significant.
974
00:50:56.070 --> 00:50:58.300
We did things like, who was the woman
975
00:50:58.300 --> 00:50:59.653
that wrote all those,
976
00:51:02.986 --> 00:51:05.420
oh God what was her name?
977
00:51:05.420 --> 00:51:07.670
I had a letter from her because I disagreed with her
978
00:51:07.670 --> 00:51:12.670
and she had a temper, and she lived in the northeast,
979
00:51:13.150 --> 00:51:17.097
and she wrote, oh God what was her name,
980
00:51:17.097 --> 00:51:19.210
I wish Joanna was here, she would know.
981
00:51:19.210 --> 00:51:21.370
Anyway we did a book reading for her
982
00:51:21.370 --> 00:51:23.730
and we had probably a hundred women come
983
00:51:23.730 --> 00:51:27.570
to this little bookstore to get a book by her.
984
00:51:27.570 --> 00:51:28.843
She's well-known writer.
985
00:51:30.530 --> 00:51:32.568
And I can't remember her name.
986
00:51:32.568 --> 00:51:33.976
What books, what kinda books?
987
00:51:33.976 --> 00:51:38.976
It was biographical, it was like diaries.
988
00:51:39.660 --> 00:51:41.128
Wasn't diaries and she--
989
00:51:41.128 --> 00:51:41.961
May Sarton?
990
00:51:41.961 --> 00:51:43.373
May Sarton, May Sarton.
991
00:51:44.290 --> 00:51:48.540
Someone stole a letter to me from May Sarton outta my house.
992
00:51:48.540 --> 00:51:50.670
Oh God, she was such as charismatic--
993
00:51:50.670 --> 00:51:52.080
This is what happened.
994
00:51:52.080 --> 00:51:54.890
She came to this, she had friends in Nashville
995
00:51:54.890 --> 00:51:57.560
that were personal friends of her.
996
00:51:57.560 --> 00:52:00.770
And so when I found that out, I wrote her,
997
00:52:00.770 --> 00:52:04.983
and she came and did a book signing at WomanKind.
998
00:52:06.740 --> 00:52:11.740
She believed that women needed to be in a marriage
999
00:52:12.270 --> 00:52:14.700
to really understand commitment.
1000
00:52:14.700 --> 00:52:15.850
And she said this--
May Sarton believed that?
1001
00:52:15.850 --> 00:52:16.690
May Sarton.
1002
00:52:16.690 --> 00:52:18.017
And she puts it in one of her books,
1003
00:52:18.017 --> 00:52:20.070
and so I disagreed with her.
1004
00:52:20.070 --> 00:52:24.150
I felt like you could be a lesbian and be in relationship
1005
00:52:24.150 --> 00:52:25.920
and learn about commitment.
1006
00:52:25.920 --> 00:52:27.210
I wrote her this letter.
1007
00:52:27.210 --> 00:52:30.170
You should read the letter she wrote me back.
1008
00:52:30.170 --> 00:52:31.870
She was a spitfire.
1009
00:52:31.870 --> 00:52:34.320
She did not like to be disagreed with (chuckles).
1010
00:52:36.060 --> 00:52:38.012
Someone took that letter.
1011
00:52:38.012 --> 00:52:38.845
Aw.
1012
00:52:40.640 --> 00:52:43.870
But the point is that we did those kinds of things
1013
00:52:43.870 --> 00:52:45.258
and there was a bookstore,
1014
00:52:45.258 --> 00:52:48.683
what was the bookstore on Hillsboro Road.
1015
00:52:49.880 --> 00:52:50.713
Mills?
1016
00:52:50.713 --> 00:52:51.780
Mills.
1017
00:52:51.780 --> 00:52:52.613
Oh yeah.
1018
00:52:52.613 --> 00:52:54.820
And you know that would be normally
1019
00:52:54.820 --> 00:52:56.330
where she would probably have done that
1020
00:52:56.330 --> 00:52:58.930
but she did it WomanKind Books.
1021
00:52:58.930 --> 00:53:03.320
So the point I'm making is that for the bookstore,
1022
00:53:03.320 --> 00:53:08.290
there was a convening of a lot of different groups.
1023
00:53:08.290 --> 00:53:11.570
There was the Vanderbilt graduate students,
1024
00:53:11.570 --> 00:53:16.570
there were the outreach healthcare folks from Vanderbilt,
1025
00:53:17.122 --> 00:53:18.630
and I don't know, I'll have to find the name
1026
00:53:18.630 --> 00:53:22.963
of that organization, 'cause it was important in that time.
1027
00:53:24.430 --> 00:53:26.760
There were the people that lived out in the country
1028
00:53:26.760 --> 00:53:30.270
that didn't have access to books.
1029
00:53:30.270 --> 00:53:31.460
That was before Amazon,
1030
00:53:31.460 --> 00:53:35.813
that was before any of those kinds of bookstores.
1031
00:53:36.880 --> 00:53:38.490
So what happened is
1032
00:53:38.490 --> 00:53:41.970
because we were getting this huge mailing list,
1033
00:53:41.970 --> 00:53:45.100
we started doing a fancy catalog
1034
00:53:45.100 --> 00:53:47.630
that we would send out to everybody.
1035
00:53:47.630 --> 00:53:51.450
And people were constantly wanting these referrals.
1036
00:53:51.450 --> 00:53:54.670
And so and because I knew the political folks,
1037
00:53:54.670 --> 00:53:55.940
and I knew a,
1038
00:53:56.910 --> 00:54:01.910
I knew the lesbians, I knew the radical feminists,
1039
00:54:02.630 --> 00:54:04.780
and I also knew the church women,
1040
00:54:04.780 --> 00:54:08.690
and just the average folks.
1041
00:54:08.690 --> 00:54:11.060
I said well why don't we do something that,
1042
00:54:11.060 --> 00:54:13.373
and we were doing those marches.
1043
00:54:14.487 --> 00:54:18.360
Take Back the Night.
Take Back the Night.
1044
00:54:18.360 --> 00:54:21.370
There was something else going on politically at them time,
1045
00:54:21.370 --> 00:54:22.400
I don't remember.
1046
00:54:22.400 --> 00:54:26.360
Anyway, so I'm trying to remember,
1047
00:54:26.360 --> 00:54:31.360
maybe it was Lindsay Jones that I talked to about this.
1048
00:54:34.670 --> 00:54:36.980
And Lindsay Jones was an active person
1049
00:54:36.980 --> 00:54:38.873
part of this Vanderbilt group.
1050
00:54:41.440 --> 00:54:46.360
Anyway, we started talking about the fact that everybody,
1051
00:54:46.360 --> 00:54:47.950
whether they were lesbian or not,
1052
00:54:47.950 --> 00:54:52.950
wanted referrals to female doctors and all of that.
1053
00:54:53.390 --> 00:54:56.540
I said, "Well what if we got a bunch of folks together
1054
00:54:56.540 --> 00:55:01.540
to start talking about doing some of these things.
1055
00:55:03.220 --> 00:55:08.220
And so, I can't remember the, right at that moment,
1056
00:55:10.978 --> 00:55:14.060
that conversation, what the first step was,
1057
00:55:14.060 --> 00:55:17.023
but what I did, and I brought this,
1058
00:55:18.550 --> 00:55:20.653
I always keep,
1059
00:55:22.200 --> 00:55:26.280
this is from '79, okay.
1060
00:55:26.280 --> 00:55:29.003
And so I didn't have a chance to go through it all.
1061
00:55:37.470 --> 00:55:38.420
I'll go through it.
1062
00:55:38.420 --> 00:55:41.023
Here's three o'clock Mary Flanagan
1063
00:55:41.023 --> 00:55:44.400
to talk about the Women's Emergency Shelter.
1064
00:55:44.400 --> 00:55:46.920
See we, and so I'm gonna just tell ya,
1065
00:55:46.920 --> 00:55:48.730
and I've got a lot more of this stuff,
1066
00:55:48.730 --> 00:55:51.152
I just didn't have a chance to go through it.
1067
00:55:51.152 --> 00:55:51.985
Well that-
1068
00:55:51.985 --> 00:55:52.960
Can I tell you what my memories were,
1069
00:55:52.960 --> 00:55:53.900
and maybe that would jog--
1070
00:55:53.900 --> 00:55:55.854
Yes, sure.
(crosstalk) our memories
1071
00:55:55.854 --> 00:55:58.230
and I don't really know how accurate mine are
1072
00:55:58.230 --> 00:56:01.650
but I remember from where I was in the country,
1073
00:56:01.650 --> 00:56:03.360
having heard about WomanKind,
1074
00:56:03.360 --> 00:56:06.710
and intending to get there, and not making it.
1075
00:56:06.710 --> 00:56:11.080
And then my friend Catherine from Knoxville,
1076
00:56:11.080 --> 00:56:16.080
Kitty Moshell told me that there was gonna be a concert
1077
00:56:16.340 --> 00:56:19.450
that, and I think it was you that did it,
1078
00:56:19.450 --> 00:56:23.140
was bringing Teresa Trull and Meg Christian for a concert,
1079
00:56:23.140 --> 00:56:26.730
and it was gonna be the first concert in Nashville
1080
00:56:26.730 --> 00:56:28.630
by lesbian for lesbians.
1081
00:56:28.630 --> 00:56:29.820
Mm hm, mm hm.
1082
00:56:29.820 --> 00:56:31.700
And we all went to the concert.
1083
00:56:31.700 --> 00:56:33.040
We couldn't wait.
1084
00:56:33.040 --> 00:56:34.970
And I remember that poor woman that opened,
1085
00:56:34.970 --> 00:56:38.350
who sang all off key and embarrassed herself terribly
1086
00:56:38.350 --> 00:56:40.600
because she just couldn't get it straight.
1087
00:56:40.600 --> 00:56:42.294
See I didn't even remember that.
1088
00:56:42.294 --> 00:56:43.600
(laughing)
Oh my gosh it was,
1089
00:56:43.600 --> 00:56:45.340
I felt so sad for her.
1090
00:56:45.340 --> 00:56:47.250
And then after the concert,
1091
00:56:47.250 --> 00:56:48.870
it was gonna be like a whole weekend event.
1092
00:56:48.870 --> 00:56:50.960
After the concert, the next day
1093
00:56:50.960 --> 00:56:52.450
there was gonna be a big meeting
1094
00:56:52.450 --> 00:56:55.680
at the house where you were moving into,
1095
00:56:55.680 --> 00:56:59.040
and we were gonna try and get some things organized.
1096
00:56:59.040 --> 00:57:00.987
And I was working at Hartsville at the time
1097
00:57:00.987 --> 00:57:04.970
and I had just heard about Irene and was tryna find Irene.
1098
00:57:04.970 --> 00:57:06.450
I think she came to that.
1099
00:57:06.450 --> 00:57:08.351
No, she didn't, (mumbles) did.
1100
00:57:08.351 --> 00:57:09.550
Okay.
But I remember going
1101
00:57:09.550 --> 00:57:11.230
to the meeting at your house
1102
00:57:11.230 --> 00:57:14.520
and really looking forward to meeting you
1103
00:57:14.520 --> 00:57:17.160
and the WomanKind women.
1104
00:57:17.160 --> 00:57:19.250
And we were sitting on the floor,
1105
00:57:19.250 --> 00:57:20.670
and we were in different rooms,
1106
00:57:20.670 --> 00:57:24.340
and somehow or another it was rally well-organized
1107
00:57:24.340 --> 00:57:26.970
where we changed rooms and moved around,
1108
00:57:26.970 --> 00:57:29.370
and decided what we wanted to do,
1109
00:57:29.370 --> 00:57:30.880
and then moved into different rooms,
1110
00:57:30.880 --> 00:57:34.210
according to what it was people were interested in doing.
1111
00:57:34.210 --> 00:57:36.297
And we talked about a battered women's shelter
1112
00:57:36.297 --> 00:57:39.090
and we talked about a women's clinic.
1113
00:57:39.090 --> 00:57:40.930
And we talked about a coffee house.
1114
00:57:40.930 --> 00:57:41.763
Mm hm.
1115
00:57:41.763 --> 00:57:44.110
And I don't remember what else,
1116
00:57:44.110 --> 00:57:46.400
but it seemed to me there was one other thing
1117
00:57:46.400 --> 00:57:48.490
that was discussed.
1118
00:57:48.490 --> 00:57:52.460
Well I know that, that's interesting,
1119
00:57:52.460 --> 00:57:53.870
'cause see I couldn't remember
1120
00:57:53.870 --> 00:57:56.558
how we ended up having the first meeting.
1121
00:57:56.558 --> 00:57:58.240
I had discussed it.
1122
00:57:58.240 --> 00:58:01.980
One of the skills that I have is organization.
1123
00:58:01.980 --> 00:58:06.020
I can organize groups very well.
1124
00:58:06.020 --> 00:58:10.640
And so what happened is the information I just said to you,
1125
00:58:10.640 --> 00:58:12.400
fits in with that,
1126
00:58:12.400 --> 00:58:17.400
because what I did was I called Olivia and Redwood,
1127
00:58:18.570 --> 00:58:22.810
which is Holly Neers' group, and a number of others.
1128
00:58:22.810 --> 00:58:24.333
And at that time,
1129
00:58:26.330 --> 00:58:31.330
Olivia was doing this phenomenal nationwide network
1130
00:58:32.160 --> 00:58:37.087
of women label distributors.
1131
00:58:38.500 --> 00:58:41.550
So, all around the country, we would...
1132
00:58:43.370 --> 00:58:45.260
There was a concert in Michigan,
1133
00:58:45.260 --> 00:58:48.510
not just the week long concert,
1134
00:58:48.510 --> 00:58:52.840
but there were other concerts around the country
1135
00:58:54.000 --> 00:58:55.640
that I sometime attended.
1136
00:58:55.640 --> 00:58:58.203
And I got to know the Olivia people very well.
1137
00:58:59.140 --> 00:59:01.320
Meg and Teresa came for that,
1138
00:59:01.320 --> 00:59:02.570
stayed with us.
1139
00:59:02.570 --> 00:59:06.520
We actually went on a, in fact I was gonna bring it,
1140
00:59:06.520 --> 00:59:08.640
'cause I had the ticket
1141
00:59:08.640 --> 00:59:13.640
where we went, when we went white water rafting with them.
1142
00:59:14.180 --> 00:59:16.333
Anyway, I'll let you see this.
1143
00:59:17.410 --> 00:59:21.180
So what happened is, in the process of the bookstore,
1144
00:59:21.180 --> 00:59:24.980
it became very clear that there were a bunch of things
1145
00:59:24.980 --> 00:59:26.730
that large groups of women,
1146
00:59:26.730 --> 00:59:28.230
regardless of whether they were lesbians,
1147
00:59:28.230 --> 00:59:30.973
straight, what they were.
1148
00:59:30.973 --> 00:59:32.170
But they were all feminists.
1149
00:59:32.170 --> 00:59:34.340
But they were feminists and they wanted
1150
00:59:35.270 --> 00:59:37.543
to have access to these things.
1151
00:59:38.470 --> 00:59:43.470
So, the first organizing that happened was just what
1152
00:59:45.765 --> 00:59:46.598
you said.
At that house.
1153
00:59:46.598 --> 00:59:47.431
And that was what I wrote about
1154
00:59:47.431 --> 00:59:50.070
for Rose was how I remember that happening
1155
00:59:50.070 --> 00:59:53.300
because in the process of that, I was talking to a woman,
1156
00:59:53.300 --> 00:59:56.230
and she asked what I did, and I said I was a carpenter
1157
00:59:56.230 --> 00:59:57.187
and I was working at Hartsville.
1158
00:59:57.187 --> 00:59:59.597
And she said, "Oh, well you must know Jan Dell,
1159
00:59:59.597 --> 01:00:00.627
"she's a carpenter too,
1160
01:00:00.627 --> 01:00:02.280
"but she doesn't work for Hartsville."
1161
01:00:02.280 --> 01:00:04.160
Right.
But I didn't know Jan Dell,
1162
01:00:04.160 --> 01:00:06.280
but the next room I moved into,
1163
01:00:06.280 --> 01:00:09.660
the woman I sat next to said, "Oh hi, I'm Jan Dell."
1164
01:00:09.660 --> 01:00:10.493
Okay, there you go.
And I said,
1165
01:00:10.493 --> 01:00:11.730
"Oh, I've been wanting to meet you."
1166
01:00:11.730 --> 01:00:12.787
You know and blotty blotty,
1167
01:00:12.787 --> 01:00:15.050
and I'm a carpenter, and I work in Hartsville.
1168
01:00:15.050 --> 01:00:18.110
And she said to me, "Oh, then you must know Irene."
1169
01:00:18.110 --> 01:00:21.100
And it was the magic name.
Yes, and--
1170
01:00:21.100 --> 01:00:22.410
Irene didn't make it to that meeting.
1171
01:00:22.410 --> 01:00:24.050
Right, and Sharon Lester
1172
01:00:24.050 --> 01:00:28.730
who was a big time builder of fancy homes,
1173
01:00:28.730 --> 01:00:30.310
Architect.
Eventually.
1174
01:00:30.310 --> 01:00:35.170
But see Jan and Sharon Lester started out,
1175
01:00:35.170 --> 01:00:37.270
Sharon Lester had a yard service.
1176
01:00:37.270 --> 01:00:39.703
I mean it had nothing to do with building.
1177
01:00:41.410 --> 01:00:46.410
And the 150 women that all indicated
1178
01:00:47.040 --> 01:00:47.873
that they wanted to come in,
1179
01:00:47.873 --> 01:00:50.050
we had two sessions.
1180
01:00:50.050 --> 01:00:50.883
Yeah.
1181
01:00:50.883 --> 01:00:53.320
Were 'cross the board.
1182
01:00:53.320 --> 01:00:56.460
They came from all those areas that I've been spending
1183
01:00:56.460 --> 01:00:58.800
this last several hours talking about.
1184
01:00:58.800 --> 01:01:00.060
And they came from other states.
1185
01:01:00.060 --> 01:01:01.143
'Cause I remember there were women there
1186
01:01:01.143 --> 01:01:03.182
that came up from Alpha,
1187
01:01:03.182 --> 01:01:04.264
because they were gonna help,
1188
01:01:04.264 --> 01:01:06.417
because they knew about organizing these kinds of things.
1189
01:01:06.417 --> 01:01:10.377
And there were a handful of women from other states,
1190
01:01:10.377 --> 01:01:12.298
but it was mostly Nashville women.
1191
01:01:12.298 --> 01:01:13.131
Right.
1192
01:01:13.131 --> 01:01:15.740
And Barbara Bennett was the one that was gonna
1193
01:01:15.740 --> 01:01:18.340
take the lead on the clinic.
Do the women's thing.
1194
01:01:18.340 --> 01:01:19.520
Right.
The women's clinic.
1195
01:01:19.520 --> 01:01:24.520
It was a straight woman who did the battered women shelter.
1196
01:01:24.900 --> 01:01:26.200
Peg Newhouser--
Peggy, yeah.
1197
01:01:26.200 --> 01:01:28.040
But Peg was after the fact.
1198
01:01:28.040 --> 01:01:30.230
Yeah.
Peg wasn't at the initial
1199
01:01:30.230 --> 01:01:32.530
Yeah.
part, because the basis
1200
01:01:32.530 --> 01:01:34.610
for the women's shelter
1201
01:01:34.610 --> 01:01:37.763
was that for a number of years,
1202
01:01:39.820 --> 01:01:44.680
there's a, I wanna say Lutheran or Presbyterian, something.
1203
01:01:44.680 --> 01:01:48.780
It's a women's group and they fund organizations
1204
01:01:48.780 --> 01:01:50.260
around the country.
1205
01:01:50.260 --> 01:01:55.260
But they required a certain amount of seed money
1206
01:01:55.790 --> 01:02:00.290
to come from the community or the organization
1207
01:02:00.290 --> 01:02:02.470
that wanted to do this.
1208
01:02:02.470 --> 01:02:05.507
So no one, and it was being done through the YWCA
1209
01:02:06.810 --> 01:02:08.710
and the Presbyterians.
1210
01:02:08.710 --> 01:02:11.830
And they could,
Peg (mumbles).
1211
01:02:11.830 --> 01:02:13.280
This was before Peg.
1212
01:02:13.280 --> 01:02:15.180
Peg hadn't started working there yet.
1213
01:02:15.180 --> 01:02:16.013
Yeah, but didn't she work at--
1214
01:02:16.013 --> 01:02:18.040
But she did, she went to work,
1215
01:02:18.040 --> 01:02:20.085
she went to work for the Y.
1216
01:02:20.085 --> 01:02:20.918
Oh okay.
Okay.
1217
01:02:20.918 --> 01:02:24.790
But this was prior to her actually being part
1218
01:02:24.790 --> 01:02:26.571
of the Women's Center.
1219
01:02:26.571 --> 01:02:27.404
Okay.
1220
01:02:27.404 --> 01:02:30.100
She was hired, I don't remember exactly what her stuff was
1221
01:02:30.100 --> 01:02:33.020
but she did come to those meetings.
1222
01:02:33.020 --> 01:02:34.846
However, what happened is,
1223
01:02:34.846 --> 01:02:39.846
this was through my connections with the church women.
1224
01:02:43.000 --> 01:02:46.947
Someone came to me from the Y, Carleen Waller,
1225
01:02:49.230 --> 01:02:54.180
and they said, the women's presbyterian,
1226
01:02:54.180 --> 01:02:56.010
something like that, I'll have find out
1227
01:02:56.010 --> 01:02:57.730
what the specifics were,
1228
01:02:57.730 --> 01:03:02.730
wants to fund a women's emergency shelter in Nashville,
1229
01:03:03.330 --> 01:03:06.000
but we have not been able to raise the money.
1230
01:03:06.000 --> 01:03:08.160
We have to put in.
1231
01:03:08.160 --> 01:03:11.023
Would you be willing to do that for us?
1232
01:03:12.010 --> 01:03:15.670
I said, "Well we're starting this WomanKind Support Project,
1233
01:03:15.670 --> 01:03:17.870
let me see what we can do.
1234
01:03:17.870 --> 01:03:21.650
Susan Schewel, myself, Betsy Brock,
1235
01:03:21.650 --> 01:03:23.610
there was a group of us.
1236
01:03:23.610 --> 01:03:25.227
Was Ann Ballard involved in that?
1237
01:03:25.227 --> 01:03:26.947
Ann was too young at that point.
1238
01:03:26.947 --> 01:03:28.400
Oh.
She came along,
1239
01:03:28.400 --> 01:03:31.400
but right, she actually lived two doors down from me.
1240
01:03:31.400 --> 01:03:33.466
This was before, I think, her lesbian period.
1241
01:03:33.466 --> 01:03:34.730
Supposed to be saying their names for Rose to get.
1242
01:03:34.730 --> 01:03:38.320
Yeah, but Ann Ballard's a good one too.
1243
01:03:38.320 --> 01:03:40.440
There's a whole group of people on the street
1244
01:03:40.440 --> 01:03:44.350
that Jan lives on no, that know about this due.
1245
01:03:44.350 --> 01:03:45.183
Ann Ballard--
1246
01:03:45.183 --> 01:03:47.010
And Cathy, there was a woman named Cathy
1247
01:03:47.010 --> 01:03:48.020
who had blonde hair
1248
01:03:48.020 --> 01:03:50.590
who I had a crush on but she was straight,
1249
01:03:50.590 --> 01:03:53.460
and she ended up having an affair with Susanne Muffey,
1250
01:03:53.460 --> 01:03:55.607
and went crazy because of it.
1251
01:03:55.607 --> 01:03:56.960
No, I don't know about that.
1252
01:03:56.960 --> 01:04:01.960
But she was also very involved in, I think the shelter.
1253
01:04:02.550 --> 01:04:06.200
This is what occurred.
1254
01:04:06.200 --> 01:04:09.190
Well it's funny, a whole bunch of stuff and things occurred.
1255
01:04:09.190 --> 01:04:10.820
Okay.
1256
01:04:10.820 --> 01:04:14.553
So these folks from the Y and the church folks
1257
01:04:14.553 --> 01:04:18.027
approached me and said, "Would y'all consider doing
1258
01:04:18.027 --> 01:04:20.220
"some kind of fundraising, some kind of."
1259
01:04:20.220 --> 01:04:21.770
And I said "Well I don't know."
1260
01:04:26.470 --> 01:04:29.350
If I was doing it as a group,
1261
01:04:29.350 --> 01:04:32.180
I had to deal with all the folks.
1262
01:04:32.180 --> 01:04:33.013
You know, in other words,
1263
01:04:33.013 --> 01:04:35.570
I didn't make commitments for other people.
1264
01:04:35.570 --> 01:04:39.420
So what happened is we were doing the support project,
1265
01:04:39.420 --> 01:04:44.420
and I talked to Susan Schewel a little bit, Barabara Bennet,
1266
01:04:49.290 --> 01:04:53.030
but more Susan Schewel, Betsy Brock,
1267
01:04:53.030 --> 01:04:55.570
a group of the divinity students.
1268
01:04:55.570 --> 01:04:59.483
There was this woman, Ruth Zarr.
1269
01:05:01.420 --> 01:05:02.570
There was another one.
1270
01:05:02.570 --> 01:05:05.823
There were a bunch of graduate students from Vanderbilt.
1271
01:05:07.481 --> 01:05:10.850
So what happened is we, I get this whole meditation.
1272
01:05:10.850 --> 01:05:15.850
What I saw was me get you to agree to sell 10 tickets.
1273
01:05:18.630 --> 01:05:19.980
This was before this ever
1274
01:05:19.980 --> 01:05:23.320
became a popular system of fundraising.
1275
01:05:23.320 --> 01:05:26.240
Get Susan to do that.
1276
01:05:26.240 --> 01:05:28.450
So what we did was we got 10 of us.
1277
01:05:28.450 --> 01:05:30.323
There were 10 of us in this,
1278
01:05:34.960 --> 01:05:38.400
we were the commission or whatever you wanna call it.
1279
01:05:38.400 --> 01:05:39.820
So there were 10 of us.
1280
01:05:39.820 --> 01:05:43.510
And we designed this fundraiser
1281
01:05:43.510 --> 01:05:46.650
that we did at Tennessee State,
1282
01:05:46.650 --> 01:05:48.370
which was a black school.
1283
01:05:48.370 --> 01:05:50.800
We did make that choice intentionally.
1284
01:05:50.800 --> 01:05:53.890
And they have a beautiful building
1285
01:05:53.890 --> 01:05:57.813
that is down off of Church Street, I wanna say.
1286
01:05:59.610 --> 01:06:03.930
Anyway, it was in the downtown area,
1287
01:06:03.930 --> 01:06:08.603
and I was able to coerce, beg, whatever
1288
01:06:11.930 --> 01:06:14.660
for them to let us use that space.
1289
01:06:14.660 --> 01:06:19.660
And then the 10 of us all agreed to sell 1,000 tickets.
1290
01:06:22.210 --> 01:06:24.560
So each person, if I remember correctly,
1291
01:06:24.560 --> 01:06:26.660
had a hundred tickets that they had to dispose of.
1292
01:06:26.660 --> 01:06:30.690
And then they got groups from their groups
1293
01:06:30.690 --> 01:06:32.170
to sell those tickets.
1294
01:06:32.170 --> 01:06:34.770
And we made like $15,000,
1295
01:06:34.770 --> 01:06:37.410
which was unheard of at that time.
1296
01:06:37.410 --> 01:06:39.740
And so what it went to was,
1297
01:06:39.740 --> 01:06:43.320
we already agreed with the healthcare people
1298
01:06:43.320 --> 01:06:48.110
that we would use $5,000 of that
1299
01:06:48.110 --> 01:06:50.740
to develop the health center
1300
01:06:50.740 --> 01:06:53.210
for WomanKind Support Project,
1301
01:06:53.210 --> 01:06:56.733
and that we gave the other $8,000 to the Y.
1302
01:06:57.710 --> 01:07:00.740
They were able to submit it to the Presbyterians
1303
01:07:00.740 --> 01:07:04.140
and then the Presbyterians matched those funds
1304
01:07:04.140 --> 01:07:05.960
so that they had the money they needed
1305
01:07:05.960 --> 01:07:07.520
to start (mumbles).
1306
01:07:07.520 --> 01:07:11.490
And Cali Hutchinson was involved in that,
1307
01:07:11.490 --> 01:07:15.990
as were--
1308
01:07:15.990 --> 01:07:17.401
I lost you with the health center.
1309
01:07:17.401 --> 01:07:18.680
Where did the health center come in?
1310
01:07:18.680 --> 01:07:19.513
Okay.
1311
01:07:19.513 --> 01:07:24.120
So what happened is, the Womankind Support Project,
1312
01:07:24.120 --> 01:07:25.980
we had these meetings
1313
01:07:25.980 --> 01:07:29.530
where we had a whole large group of people
1314
01:07:29.530 --> 01:07:31.460
that came indiscriminately.
1315
01:07:31.460 --> 01:07:32.917
There were about 150 people
1316
01:07:32.917 --> 01:07:36.680
and the only bases for those original folks
1317
01:07:36.680 --> 01:07:41.680
were interest in a support process I guess.
1318
01:07:44.160 --> 01:07:45.120
Develop what we needed.
1319
01:07:45.120 --> 01:07:47.190
That's what I wrote for you Rose.
1320
01:07:47.190 --> 01:07:48.050
To me--
so this is
1321
01:07:48.050 --> 01:07:48.970
already written up?
1322
01:07:48.970 --> 01:07:51.030
Yeah, well, yeah.
To meet our needs.
1323
01:07:51.030 --> 01:07:53.966
But, this is all the feeling that can go with it.
1324
01:07:53.966 --> 01:07:54.799
Okay.
Right.
1325
01:07:54.799 --> 01:07:56.710
So what happened is, people would come
1326
01:07:56.710 --> 01:07:57.977
to the bookstore and they would say,
1327
01:07:57.977 --> 01:08:01.737
"Would you give me a referral to a therapist?"
1328
01:08:01.737 --> 01:08:03.867
"Would you give me a referral to a lawyer?"
1329
01:08:03.867 --> 01:08:06.247
"Would you give me a referral to
1330
01:08:06.247 --> 01:08:11.247
"where I can get healthcare, see the nurse practitioner?"
1331
01:08:13.070 --> 01:08:15.192
All of which is lesbian-friendly.
1332
01:08:15.192 --> 01:08:18.067
"Are there any coffee houses going on?"
1333
01:08:20.013 --> 01:08:23.870
"I'm an artist, do you know about other women artists?"
1334
01:08:23.870 --> 01:08:26.290
So we got all those kinds of things.
1335
01:08:26.290 --> 01:08:29.440
So out of that came this brainstorming
1336
01:08:29.440 --> 01:08:33.390
about developing an organization
1337
01:08:33.390 --> 01:08:35.800
that would be a coffee house,
1338
01:08:35.800 --> 01:08:38.627
that would have a health center--
1339
01:08:39.811 --> 01:08:41.890
And that was the meeting at Carolyn Johana's
1340
01:08:41.890 --> 01:08:43.462
after the concert.
1341
01:08:43.462 --> 01:08:45.140
(crosstalk)
And we had that meeting,
1342
01:08:45.140 --> 01:08:48.030
and then we had about six other meetings.
1343
01:08:48.030 --> 01:08:49.635
Yeah afterwards.
Afterwards.
1344
01:08:49.635 --> 01:08:50.468
Right.
1345
01:08:50.468 --> 01:08:52.470
So that what happened is,
1346
01:08:52.470 --> 01:08:55.960
all the therapist that wanted to meet together
1347
01:08:55.960 --> 01:08:58.720
and talk about their issues,
1348
01:08:58.720 --> 01:09:02.680
broke and developed their own
1349
01:09:04.040 --> 01:09:06.330
conscious-raising group of therapists.
1350
01:09:06.330 --> 01:09:08.190
And you know when you do therapy,
1351
01:09:08.190 --> 01:09:09.403
how you have to have,
1352
01:09:11.220 --> 01:09:15.283
you know, actually Susan, someone has to,
1353
01:09:17.494 --> 01:09:18.794
I forgot what it's called.
1354
01:09:19.690 --> 01:09:24.690
You know if Susan is my client, somehow I have to
1355
01:09:31.840 --> 01:09:36.840
have discussions with people about the processes that go on.
1356
01:09:38.000 --> 01:09:41.540
I'm totally screwing it up by saying it that way.
1357
01:09:41.540 --> 01:09:44.563
But these therapist met,
1358
01:09:45.460 --> 01:09:48.810
that came through WomanKind Support Project,
1359
01:09:48.810 --> 01:09:53.810
and they developed processes for their own needs,
1360
01:09:54.290 --> 01:09:56.040
such as that.
1361
01:09:56.040 --> 01:10:00.110
I think it's called a peer evaluation, or something,
1362
01:10:00.110 --> 01:10:02.210
I don't even know, 'cause I'm not a therapist.
1363
01:10:02.210 --> 01:10:06.250
But there were many therapists that participated in this,
1364
01:10:06.250 --> 01:10:07.573
straight and gay.
1365
01:10:09.700 --> 01:10:11.440
Then there was the group
1366
01:10:11.440 --> 01:10:15.140
that wanted to start a health center,
1367
01:10:15.140 --> 01:10:18.910
which Barbara Bennett and Susan Schewel,
1368
01:10:20.060 --> 01:10:21.417
you know a bunch of 'em.
1369
01:10:22.900 --> 01:10:24.566
So that's where that $5,000 was going?
1370
01:10:24.566 --> 01:10:25.813
Right.
To this thing Barara Bennett--
1371
01:10:25.813 --> 01:10:26.840
Right, right.
1372
01:10:26.840 --> 01:10:28.610
And so what happened--
and you've got Barbara's
1373
01:10:28.610 --> 01:10:30.610
piece on that also.
1374
01:10:30.610 --> 01:10:32.951
Okay, did she mention Schewel,
1375
01:10:32.951 --> 01:10:34.280
cause I don't know how to spell Schewel.
1376
01:10:34.280 --> 01:10:37.620
S-C-H-E-U-L.
S-H-E-W-E-L.
1377
01:10:37.620 --> 01:10:39.340
Okay, there you go.
S-H-E?
1378
01:10:39.340 --> 01:10:42.233
Double E-L.
W-E-L.
1379
01:10:43.800 --> 01:10:47.163
S-C-H-E-W-E-L.
1380
01:10:48.070 --> 01:10:48.903
Okay.
And I've
1381
01:10:48.903 --> 01:10:49.900
got her phone number and everything.
1382
01:10:49.900 --> 01:10:51.817
I can give you, I've stayed in touch with her.
1383
01:10:51.817 --> 01:10:52.650
Okay.
1384
01:10:52.650 --> 01:10:56.840
And so what happened is they met separately,
1385
01:10:56.840 --> 01:10:58.980
just the people that were interested
1386
01:10:58.980 --> 01:11:00.730
in the health center.
1387
01:11:00.730 --> 01:11:03.910
And although I was doing, at the time,
1388
01:11:03.910 --> 01:11:06.740
I was working with Elizabeth Goober Ross
1389
01:11:06.740 --> 01:11:09.105
and I was going across the country
1390
01:11:09.105 --> 01:11:14.105
and getting certified to work as a member of her group.
1391
01:11:17.310 --> 01:11:20.680
But I wasn't, the only involvement
1392
01:11:20.680 --> 01:11:21.850
that I had with the health center
1393
01:11:21.850 --> 01:11:25.090
was that I was part of getting certificate of need.
1394
01:11:25.090 --> 01:11:27.710
Back then you had to go and you had to apply
1395
01:11:27.710 --> 01:11:29.590
for a certificate of need.
1396
01:11:29.590 --> 01:11:32.950
And you had to show there was a need for those services.
1397
01:11:32.950 --> 01:11:37.570
And the money that we raised at that fundraiser,
1398
01:11:37.570 --> 01:11:40.450
which was phenomenally successful in Nashville.
1399
01:11:40.450 --> 01:11:43.920
I mean, the politicians like went crazy.
1400
01:11:43.920 --> 01:11:46.580
Because it was a grassroots fundraiser.
1401
01:11:46.580 --> 01:11:48.250
It was based on...
1402
01:11:50.170 --> 01:11:55.170
We made over our expenses $13,000, which was phenomenal.
1403
01:11:56.760 --> 01:12:00.463
And it actually created the ability for the,
1404
01:12:04.505 --> 01:12:09.505
YWCA to start the emergency women's shelter.
1405
01:12:09.890 --> 01:12:11.930
And what was the event itself?
1406
01:12:11.930 --> 01:12:13.010
It was at the--
1407
01:12:13.010 --> 01:12:14.100
At my house?
That you
1408
01:12:14.100 --> 01:12:14.933
were selling tickets to?
Okay.
1409
01:12:14.933 --> 01:12:19.250
It was a fundraiser for the emergency women's shelter
1410
01:12:19.250 --> 01:12:21.910
and the health clinic.
1411
01:12:21.910 --> 01:12:23.660
But when people bought a ticket, what did they get.
1412
01:12:23.660 --> 01:12:26.054
They got a ticket to come to the event.
1413
01:12:26.054 --> 01:12:27.350
What was the event?
What was the event?
1414
01:12:27.350 --> 01:12:28.183
(chuckles)
1415
01:12:28.183 --> 01:12:31.850
Well, it was like a major cocktail party.
1416
01:12:31.850 --> 01:12:32.683
Oh, okay.
1417
01:12:32.683 --> 01:12:34.060
That's all I can tell you.
1418
01:12:34.060 --> 01:12:39.060
It was at Tennessee State.
1419
01:12:39.750 --> 01:12:43.870
It was in this beautiful hall,
1420
01:12:43.870 --> 01:12:48.870
and every woman politician, a lot of men politicians,
1421
01:12:50.810 --> 01:12:55.150
Vanderbilt professors, Vanderbilt graduate students,
1422
01:12:55.150 --> 01:13:00.150
lesbians from every walk of like.
1423
01:13:01.123 --> 01:13:03.620
We didn't have anyone who took their clothes off
1424
01:13:03.620 --> 01:13:05.010
and ran around without their bras,
1425
01:13:05.010 --> 01:13:08.339
but we did have those at the coffee house.
1426
01:13:08.339 --> 01:13:10.090
(laughing)
And the coffee house,
1427
01:13:10.090 --> 01:13:12.600
we had the National Lesbian Alliance
1428
01:13:12.600 --> 01:13:13.640
that was started.
1429
01:13:13.640 --> 01:13:14.473
Mm hm.
1430
01:13:14.473 --> 01:13:16.380
And out of the National Lesbian Alliance
1431
01:13:16.380 --> 01:13:20.230
came the A Newsletter, which was the lesbian newsletter.
1432
01:13:20.230 --> 01:13:22.870
Well Gayle and I did a newsletter
1433
01:13:22.870 --> 01:13:24.420
for probably three years,
1434
01:13:24.420 --> 01:13:26.515
and I have copies of 'em all.
1435
01:13:26.515 --> 01:13:31.515
That was before the A Newsletter?
1436
01:13:32.270 --> 01:13:34.900
It may have been for that organization,
1437
01:13:34.900 --> 01:13:36.740
but Gayle and I did it.
1438
01:13:36.740 --> 01:13:38.620
Yeah, well I was involved with the coffee house.
1439
01:13:38.620 --> 01:13:40.367
I did the coffee house.
1440
01:13:40.367 --> 01:13:42.990
And we started the coffee house, again,
1441
01:13:42.990 --> 01:13:45.370
as an alternative to the bar, similar to the one
1442
01:13:45.370 --> 01:13:47.080
that we did in Knoxville,
1443
01:13:47.080 --> 01:13:49.890
which was similar to the Cafe Chino in New York,
1444
01:13:49.890 --> 01:13:52.060
except that we had really good performers,
1445
01:13:52.060 --> 01:13:54.210
because it was Nashville.
(mumbles)
1446
01:13:54.210 --> 01:13:56.480
And after the first few coffee houses
1447
01:13:56.480 --> 01:13:58.630
that we had, we kind of merged
1448
01:13:58.630 --> 01:14:01.780
with the National Lesbian Alliance,
1449
01:14:01.780 --> 01:14:04.030
because we were starting to make money.
1450
01:14:04.030 --> 01:14:06.430
So we used the coffee house,
1451
01:14:06.430 --> 01:14:08.120
and all of this is written down Rose,
1452
01:14:08.120 --> 01:14:09.330
in the stuff I gave you.
1453
01:14:09.330 --> 01:14:11.980
Okay, then I don't need to be recording it.
1454
01:14:11.980 --> 01:14:12.813
Right?
1455
01:14:12.813 --> 01:14:14.060
But I will say something.
1456
01:14:14.060 --> 01:14:15.420
So the money we got
1457
01:14:15.420 --> 01:14:18.980
through the coffee house went to--
1458
01:14:18.980 --> 01:14:21.980
Then there was approaching all these other groups
1459
01:14:21.980 --> 01:14:23.000
so that people would come.
1460
01:14:23.000 --> 01:14:26.300
Getting 150 people at a house on Saturday,
1461
01:14:26.300 --> 01:14:28.130
we had three of those meetings.
1462
01:14:28.130 --> 01:14:29.600
Yeah.
Three of those meetings,
1463
01:14:29.600 --> 01:14:31.343
which were the same meeting.
1464
01:14:32.190 --> 01:14:35.390
In other words, what happened is all 150 people
1465
01:14:35.390 --> 01:14:37.343
weren't there at that one day.
1466
01:14:38.450 --> 01:14:42.610
But it was a large house and it was overflowing.
1467
01:14:42.610 --> 01:14:44.960
And so then what happened is we kept track
1468
01:14:44.960 --> 01:14:47.608
of everybody's name and how to get in touch with them.
1469
01:14:47.608 --> 01:14:49.756
And we lost people.
1470
01:14:49.756 --> 01:14:51.830
We also lost people because you know,
1471
01:14:51.830 --> 01:14:55.780
there was Dr. Joe's wife
1472
01:14:55.780 --> 01:14:58.170
who couldn't be going to an event
1473
01:14:58.170 --> 01:15:00.110
that a lot of lesbians were going.
1474
01:15:00.110 --> 01:15:02.380
I mean literally we had to deal with that,
1475
01:15:02.380 --> 01:15:04.840
which is you know the whole phobia stuff.
1476
01:15:04.840 --> 01:15:08.630
Like if they were doing something with the lesbians,
1477
01:15:08.630 --> 01:15:10.510
they must have to be a lesbian too.
1478
01:15:10.510 --> 01:15:11.460
Right.
1479
01:15:11.460 --> 01:15:13.750
So this is held at somebody's house?
1480
01:15:13.750 --> 01:15:15.270
At their house.
At your home.
1481
01:15:15.270 --> 01:15:17.024
That's down in that piece that I gave you.
1482
01:15:17.024 --> 01:15:20.007
(mumbles) that's the Irene piece.
1483
01:15:20.007 --> 01:15:21.580
(mumbles)
1484
01:15:21.580 --> 01:15:25.130
And then the parties we had.
1485
01:15:25.130 --> 01:15:26.130
We had great parties.
1486
01:15:26.130 --> 01:15:29.610
Oh, great parties at your house.
1487
01:15:29.610 --> 01:15:31.960
You could walk down the block three blocks away
1488
01:15:31.960 --> 01:15:33.890
and you would know there was something going on
1489
01:15:33.890 --> 01:15:34.723
somewhere close.
The smell of pot
1490
01:15:34.723 --> 01:15:35.556
coming out of the house.
1491
01:15:35.556 --> 01:15:37.940
Well that too, probably as well.
1492
01:15:37.940 --> 01:15:40.100
I was thinking of the decibels.
1493
01:15:40.100 --> 01:15:42.743
Yeah that too, and the traffic, the cars.
1494
01:15:42.743 --> 01:15:47.180
But what it did, in a sense,
1495
01:15:47.180 --> 01:15:52.180
and it's like, you know all of the lesbian distributors
1496
01:15:54.320 --> 01:15:59.320
of music and the labels all were aware
1497
01:16:00.480 --> 01:16:04.993
of this large lesbian population in the natural area.
1498
01:16:06.950 --> 01:16:08.780
We did the first
1499
01:16:08.780 --> 01:16:13.780
National Women's Music Distributors Conference.
1500
01:16:16.000 --> 01:16:20.880
All the labels came and we met for like a week.
1501
01:16:20.880 --> 01:16:23.310
Say that again, First National Women.
1502
01:16:23.310 --> 01:16:27.510
Yeah, Women's Labels Distributors.
1503
01:16:27.510 --> 01:16:31.490
So it was like, there is a feminist bookstore
1504
01:16:31.490 --> 01:16:33.550
in Kansas City, they came.
1505
01:16:33.550 --> 01:16:37.720
There was a bookstore in California, you know they all,
1506
01:16:37.720 --> 01:16:38.553
in most cases--
1507
01:16:38.553 --> 01:16:41.720
Organized by Womankind or Womankind Support.
1508
01:16:41.720 --> 01:16:43.200
Right, well WomanKind Book,
1509
01:16:43.200 --> 01:16:45.720
I mean we were distributors for them
1510
01:16:45.720 --> 01:16:47.710
and so we organized that.
1511
01:16:47.710 --> 01:16:52.710
I mean, primarily it was Jenny Berson from Olivia and me
1512
01:16:53.010 --> 01:16:54.590
that actually organized it.
1513
01:16:54.590 --> 01:16:58.453
And that was specifically for women distributors.
1514
01:16:59.400 --> 01:17:03.580
And that was a pretty phenomenal concept,
1515
01:17:03.580 --> 01:17:07.780
because what they did is they, all of these women
1516
01:17:09.860 --> 01:17:12.440
were organized into an organization
1517
01:17:12.440 --> 01:17:14.560
that was nationwide
1518
01:17:14.560 --> 01:17:17.683
for concerts and record distribution.
1519
01:17:19.904 --> 01:17:21.040
For women's music.
That was pretty wonderful
1520
01:17:21.040 --> 01:17:22.660
for women's music.
1521
01:17:22.660 --> 01:17:26.883
And the way that I really got to know Susan,
1522
01:17:30.580 --> 01:17:33.913
I already knew you for other infamous reasons.
1523
01:17:34.910 --> 01:17:39.273
But Susan, although we did the stuff with the,
1524
01:17:42.846 --> 01:17:45.300
what is the thing that Carol likes so much.
1525
01:17:45.300 --> 01:17:49.170
We went several times to sell books there,
1526
01:17:49.170 --> 01:17:51.180
'cause I still continued to do that,
1527
01:17:51.180 --> 01:17:55.800
to go to activities that were happening.
1528
01:17:55.800 --> 01:17:58.760
But there was some reason I couldn't go,
1529
01:17:58.760 --> 01:18:01.200
and so you started doing it.
1530
01:18:01.200 --> 01:18:05.060
And you did that for a number of years for us.
1531
01:18:05.060 --> 01:18:07.294
Actually I didn't, I just did it one time.
1532
01:18:07.294 --> 01:18:08.190
One time, only one time?
1533
01:18:08.190 --> 01:18:09.353
See I remembered it as more than that.
1534
01:18:09.353 --> 01:18:11.342
That was my first trip to woman's rights.
1535
01:18:11.342 --> 01:18:13.527
I kept going back but I didn't bring boys.
1536
01:18:13.527 --> 01:18:15.330
And I met Susan at the coffee house,
1537
01:18:15.330 --> 01:18:17.363
'cause I was doing the door,
1538
01:18:18.200 --> 01:18:19.427
along with the many other things.
1539
01:18:19.427 --> 01:18:23.560
And I remember the night that Susan and Carol Sukas
1540
01:18:23.560 --> 01:18:28.560
with her neck brace, and Katy and Mary Qwelski.
1541
01:18:28.643 --> 01:18:30.340
The four of them came in together
1542
01:18:30.340 --> 01:18:35.030
and they were four of the most adorable young women
1543
01:18:35.030 --> 01:18:37.716
I had ever seen in one bunch in my whole life.
1544
01:18:37.716 --> 01:18:39.344
And look at this, now we're all old.
1545
01:18:39.344 --> 01:18:44.300
(chuckles) But the thing that is phenomenal about this,
1546
01:18:44.300 --> 01:18:49.100
is this was in the '70s, in Nashville, in the Bible Belt,
1547
01:18:49.100 --> 01:18:51.540
and I think that was significant.
1548
01:18:51.540 --> 01:18:52.628
Because we never--
1549
01:18:52.628 --> 01:18:55.560
Oh yeah.
Everything we're doing
1550
01:18:55.560 --> 01:18:58.540
for this (mumbles) project is in the Bible Belt.
1551
01:18:58.540 --> 01:19:01.320
Right, and I'll tell you
1552
01:19:01.320 --> 01:19:04.010
the kinda crazy things that happened.
1553
01:19:04.010 --> 01:19:06.903
Do you remember the two women that came from California?
1554
01:19:11.900 --> 01:19:15.410
One of 'em got involved with Susan Schewel for a while
1555
01:19:15.410 --> 01:19:17.680
and she left and went back to California,
1556
01:19:17.680 --> 01:19:21.471
where you have night meetings and everybody--
1557
01:19:21.471 --> 01:19:22.523
Oh, a tent meeting?
Yeah,
1558
01:19:22.523 --> 01:19:23.530
or it'd be like a camp meeting.
1559
01:19:23.530 --> 01:19:24.880
Revival.
Revival.
1560
01:19:24.880 --> 01:19:27.290
They would have a revival every year,
1561
01:19:27.290 --> 01:19:30.170
and these two women were in the back of the bookstore
1562
01:19:30.170 --> 01:19:34.227
and I'm hearing, all of a sudden I hear this, "Excuse me!"
1563
01:19:35.270 --> 01:19:38.160
You know, and it was Ellen.
1564
01:19:38.160 --> 01:19:39.717
Ellen Hattigan.
1565
01:19:39.717 --> 01:19:41.140
Ellen Hagan
1566
01:19:41.140 --> 01:19:43.258
and the other young woman.
Oh and Elise.
1567
01:19:43.258 --> 01:19:44.250
Ellen and Elise.
That's right.
1568
01:19:44.250 --> 01:19:45.610
Okay.
I sure do remember.
1569
01:19:45.610 --> 01:19:49.200
So Ellen was like, her voice was going up and up.
1570
01:19:49.200 --> 01:19:52.360
And I go back there and there's this guy there.
1571
01:19:52.360 --> 01:19:56.020
And I say, "Excuse me, what's happening here?"
1572
01:19:56.020 --> 01:19:59.550
And so Ellen is beside herself.
1573
01:19:59.550 --> 01:20:02.350
They're having this revival at this baptist church,
1574
01:20:02.350 --> 01:20:05.640
this man has come down into the bookstore,
1575
01:20:05.640 --> 01:20:09.708
and he has asked her where he can get a prostitute.
1576
01:20:09.708 --> 01:20:11.627
(laughing)
I remember that.
1577
01:20:11.627 --> 01:20:14.166
I remember that, oh my God.
1578
01:20:14.166 --> 01:20:16.170
Now this is in a feminist bookstore.
1579
01:20:16.170 --> 01:20:18.150
Yes, I remember that.
And so Ellen
1580
01:20:18.150 --> 01:20:20.660
was about to have heart failure, right?
1581
01:20:20.660 --> 01:20:22.237
Oh yeah.
And I'm like,
1582
01:20:22.237 --> 01:20:23.470
"Excuse me?"
1583
01:20:23.470 --> 01:20:25.257
You know I'm saying, I said,
1584
01:20:25.257 --> 01:20:28.080
"Do you know what this bookstore is?"
1585
01:20:28.080 --> 01:20:30.827
I said, "This is a feminist bookstore.
1586
01:20:30.827 --> 01:20:35.827
"We don't really refer people to prostitutes."
1587
01:20:36.800 --> 01:20:38.927
And I said, "And besides,
1588
01:20:38.927 --> 01:20:41.313
"aren't you with that baptist church?
1589
01:20:42.177 --> 01:20:46.540
"What would they say if I walked down and told the people
1590
01:20:46.540 --> 01:20:49.330
"that you're looking for a prostitute?"
1591
01:20:49.330 --> 01:20:52.890
And he starts backing out of the door.
1592
01:20:52.890 --> 01:20:55.795
And I said, "In fact, I think I'll come with you."
1593
01:20:55.795 --> 01:20:56.628
Oh I remember that.
1594
01:20:56.628 --> 01:20:58.050
And I may have even been there,
1595
01:20:58.050 --> 01:21:00.030
'cause I was (mumbles) at the time.
1596
01:21:00.030 --> 01:21:02.670
And I walk with him back to this church.
1597
01:21:02.670 --> 01:21:05.477
And I found the head of the thing,
1598
01:21:05.477 --> 01:21:07.686
and I said, "Do you know what this guy was doing?"
1599
01:21:07.686 --> 01:21:08.519
Oh I remember that.
1600
01:21:08.519 --> 01:21:10.630
You were the talk of the whole lesbian community.
1601
01:21:10.630 --> 01:21:13.177
So, but the point is that
1602
01:21:13.177 --> 01:21:17.630
Still.
the reality of that energy
1603
01:21:17.630 --> 01:21:19.663
that was for a lot of us.
1604
01:21:22.962 --> 01:21:26.640
It's pretty phenomenal for that time, in Nashville.
1605
01:21:26.640 --> 01:21:29.410
Because like I said, even women performers,
1606
01:21:29.410 --> 01:21:30.540
at that time, couldn't--
1607
01:21:30.540 --> 01:21:33.120
And Carol did and I said, "No."
1608
01:21:33.120 --> 01:21:34.337
Yes, (laughing).
1609
01:21:34.337 --> 01:21:36.240
I can't believe this guy.
1610
01:21:36.240 --> 01:21:37.073
He was like,
1611
01:21:37.073 --> 01:21:39.150
what is wrong with him?
1612
01:21:39.150 --> 01:21:44.150
But the point is that we acted on our needs.
1613
01:21:46.150 --> 01:21:48.930
And we're supportive of one another.
1614
01:21:48.930 --> 01:21:51.870
And, you know, we did all the bad things too.
1615
01:21:51.870 --> 01:21:56.820
I mean we had all the (sighs) damaged people,
1616
01:21:56.820 --> 01:21:59.660
and damaged behaviors, and all that.
1617
01:21:59.660 --> 01:22:03.120
But, you know in fact I got sued.
1618
01:22:03.120 --> 01:22:04.350
I don't know if y'all know that,
1619
01:22:04.350 --> 01:22:06.963
but there was a therapist,
1620
01:22:07.910 --> 01:22:11.990
a therapist that lived out side of Smyrna,
1621
01:22:11.990 --> 01:22:16.580
who worked, who was part of the WomanKind Support Project.
1622
01:22:16.580 --> 01:22:21.580
And see that money that opened that and all that,
1623
01:22:22.290 --> 01:22:24.630
I was not involved in that.
1624
01:22:24.630 --> 01:22:28.900
It was done with Susan and Barbara,
1625
01:22:28.900 --> 01:22:30.040
and I don't know what they did.
1626
01:22:30.040 --> 01:22:31.880
You know they rented the space, all that.
1627
01:22:31.880 --> 01:22:34.370
I did end up being the executive director
1628
01:22:34.370 --> 01:22:38.360
of the health clinic for a period of time,
1629
01:22:38.360 --> 01:22:43.360
but it was really because Susan and Barbara were exiting.
1630
01:22:48.810 --> 01:22:53.770
But this therapist, you know, we had programs there.
1631
01:22:53.770 --> 01:22:55.030
We had all kind of programs.
1632
01:22:55.030 --> 01:22:57.050
We did the Deaf and Dine stuff.
1633
01:22:57.050 --> 01:23:01.240
We did a whole range of programs.
1634
01:23:01.240 --> 01:23:03.963
And this therapist worked there.
1635
01:23:05.120 --> 01:23:07.570
And I don't know what arrangements they had
1636
01:23:07.570 --> 01:23:09.000
about pay or anything.
1637
01:23:09.000 --> 01:23:11.350
I don't think anybody was really paid.
1638
01:23:11.350 --> 01:23:15.520
I think all the money went to supplies and rental.
1639
01:23:15.520 --> 01:23:18.400
But this woman sued me.
1640
01:23:18.400 --> 01:23:19.233
For what?
1641
01:23:19.233 --> 01:23:20.853
For back wages.
1642
01:23:23.200 --> 01:23:26.763
So I went, I had a good friend in the music,
1643
01:23:28.090 --> 01:23:30.510
she was an attorney in the music business.
1644
01:23:30.510 --> 01:23:32.803
And I can't tell you what her name is,
1645
01:23:34.440 --> 01:23:36.163
but she represented me free.
1646
01:23:37.817 --> 01:23:40.080
And they threw it out of court.
1647
01:23:40.080 --> 01:23:41.650
So staying at your house a lot,
1648
01:23:41.650 --> 01:23:44.520
because I was working at Nashville Center then.
1649
01:23:44.520 --> 01:23:47.030
And instead of having to go back and forth everyday,
1650
01:23:47.030 --> 01:23:49.250
I would stay with you and Joanna very often.
1651
01:23:49.250 --> 01:23:51.500
Thank you so much for those times.
1652
01:23:51.500 --> 01:23:52.510
Oh I loved it.
(crosstalk)
1653
01:23:52.510 --> 01:23:55.541
I said you were infamous.
It was so much fun.
1654
01:23:55.541 --> 01:23:57.727
I remember you calling me so many times,
1655
01:23:57.727 --> 01:23:59.787
"Joanna and I have to have a fight,
1656
01:23:59.787 --> 01:24:01.829
"come on over so we can fight in front of you."
1657
01:24:01.829 --> 01:24:04.033
(laughing)
1658
01:24:04.033 --> 01:24:06.313
Joanna and I fought all the time.
1659
01:24:06.313 --> 01:24:07.607
And I'd come over and I'd sit there,
1660
01:24:07.607 --> 01:24:10.107
and you'd have your fight, (chuckles) be finished.
1661
01:24:12.029 --> 01:24:13.380
'Til the next fight.
1662
01:24:13.380 --> 01:24:14.213
Yeah.
1663
01:24:15.410 --> 01:24:17.480
And Joanna and I are still together.
1664
01:24:17.480 --> 01:24:18.360
Yeah.
1665
01:24:18.360 --> 01:24:19.780
Hey Nancy!
1666
01:24:19.780 --> 01:24:20.680
Yeah.
1667
01:24:20.680 --> 01:24:23.386
You think Joanna and I are still together?
1668
01:24:23.386 --> 01:24:24.458
Very much so.
1669
01:24:24.458 --> 01:24:25.820
(laughing)
1670
01:24:25.820 --> 01:24:27.617
She's a saint, thank God.
1671
01:24:27.617 --> 01:24:28.810
Sometimes we're always
1672
01:24:28.810 --> 01:24:31.133
with this person one way or the other.
1673
01:24:32.610 --> 01:24:35.270
Well, I guess we'll be together 'til we die.
1674
01:24:35.270 --> 01:24:36.550
Yeah.
I mean we're not together,
1675
01:24:36.550 --> 01:24:39.250
we're not lovers or anything like that, but we're--
1676
01:24:39.250 --> 01:24:42.000
Why did that therapist think she was owed back wages?
1677
01:24:43.380 --> 01:24:46.410
The whole thing was totally bizarre.
1678
01:24:46.410 --> 01:24:47.950
It was craziness.
1679
01:24:47.950 --> 01:24:49.760
But it had to do with the support project?
1680
01:24:49.760 --> 01:24:51.390
Yeah, it had to do with the support project.
1681
01:24:51.390 --> 01:24:52.470
And who was the lawyer?
1682
01:24:52.470 --> 01:24:53.303
Who was that woman?
1683
01:24:53.303 --> 01:24:55.940
Because she also represented Mary BJ.
1684
01:24:55.940 --> 01:24:56.773
Yeah.
1685
01:24:56.773 --> 01:24:57.671
Free in something.
1686
01:24:57.671 --> 01:25:02.150
She is someone I knew for years and years.
1687
01:25:02.150 --> 01:25:03.720
Sherry, Shelly?
No.
1688
01:25:03.720 --> 01:25:05.260
No.
1689
01:25:05.260 --> 01:25:06.093
Cherry.
1690
01:25:06.093 --> 01:25:07.120
I'd have to look her up.
1691
01:25:07.120 --> 01:25:08.740
I can look her up.
1692
01:25:08.740 --> 01:25:09.720
I can see her.
1693
01:25:09.720 --> 01:25:11.391
I can see her with her long hair,
1694
01:25:11.391 --> 01:25:15.950
and she was tall and thin and quite nice looking.