[Blair Murphy] Your birth and your place of birth. [Annie Benton] Annie M Benton. - And when? - November 19th, 1924. In Norfolk, Virginia. - And what was it like here in Norfolk when you were a little girl? - Well I, being born in, in the twenties, I really, I don't remember too much, you know, about that. But, even in the thirties, we were a family that grandparent, one grandparent- 'cause my grandfather had passed- was living with us and she had young, young children, young boy and a young girl at that time. So we were all living in a place together, apartment, and close knit families. And all the parents worked and they did menial work, you know, labor. My mother did housework. My grandmother did housework and my father worked on the salvage yard. We called it junk yard at that time. He was a welder. So it left really pretty much the children home. Of course we went to school, but mostly, we took care of the house. - How many brothers and sisters did you have? - I had one sister. I had two sisters, but the oldest one died when she was six. So I don't remember her. - Okay. - But I do have one sister. - What part of Norfolk did you live in? - Lived in Huntersville. - Okay. I haven't heard of that area. Where is it? - Let's see, it runs into Tidewater Drive. Well, going east, I think, from where you, which is the way you came, I think. - Okay, and that was mostly Black community? - Yes, all Black community. Except there was a couple of stores that was run by Jews and they lived in the apartments above the store, right. But basically it was a Black community. It was a Black community. - So did you live in a, like a house or did you live in an apartment? - No, we lived in an apartment. It was a two bedroom apartment on our first apartment that we lived in. I remembered our bath was outdoors, but then we finally moved from there to a house that had a bath. - Do you remember how old you were when you moved? - I think maybe around, probably around eight or nine. - Do you know how, where your father learned to do welding? - No, I really don't, I really don't. I know he was in, in the service, but all I remember hearing him speak of about the service was that he was a cook in the service. - So was he, did he enlist or did he, was he drafted? - He was drafted during World War I. - So did he go overseas? - No, he didn't get to go overseas. - And were your parents born in this area as well? - No, my father was born in a little place on the other side of Emporia, Virginia called Pleasant Shade, Virginia. Most, a lot of people never heard of Pleasant Shade, but they have heard of Emporia. And my mother was born in Hickory, Virginia, which is near Chesapeake. - So it's just, in the area. - Yeah, uh-huh. And they met in Norfolk, 'cause when he left Emp- Pleasant Shade, he went into the service and he settled in this area. - So what was the name of your first school? - My first school? John T. West. - And how far was that from here? Where is it? - When I went to started in John T. West, I was living on, I guess maybe a couple of blocks away from school. - So you walked to school? - Yes. - How big was your school? - It was a two story school and it went to the sixth grade. - So did each grade have its own teacher? - Yes. And they also had the little, had some couple of rooms on the outside of the larger school for the some lower grades. And after attending John T. West, I went to the junior high school, which was Booker T, Booker T. Washington, which is Booker T. Washington High School now. It was Booker T. Washington Intermediate on one side of the auditorium, - And the high school on the other side? - And the high school on the other side of the auditorium. - And that was a very large school? - Yes, it was. And that was seventh grade through eighth. When you went to the ninth grade you went to high school. - So you went to Booker T. Washington High School? - Right, uh-huh. - So what do you remember about that school? - What do I remember? Well, I, let's see, basically was a lot- well, naturally it was a lot of studying and I didn't get to- I wasn't a socializer. I didn't socialize very much. (laughs) So. But I went to basketball games and they had football games. - Did you like your teachers? - Well, yes. I don't know of a teacher that I really didn't like, so. And you know, they put on plays and- - So it was all Black high school as well? - Yes, it was. - And did you have good access to books and things like that being a large high school? - Yeah, I'm trying to remember, did we. We had books. I think the school let you have books, but you had to turn those books back in at the end of the semester, mm-hmm. - Did you have a library in the school? - In the school? We always went to Blyden Branch library, which was, that was near my house too. - That was a public library? - Yes, it was. - Was it the city library or? - No, it was just an area library in the Huntersville area. - So was it considered a Black library? - Yes, I would. - What do you remember about Norfolk? Like where would you shop? - On Church Street was the largest shopping area. Of course, some people shopped on Granby Street, but basically, it was segregation during the early years. And a lot of people didn't go on Granby Street because you know, they- Well, you know how salespeople- Well, no, you don't know neither, how salespeople were. They would rather wait on a White person before they would wait on you, you know, so a lot of people just didn't go in that area. - So those were White businesses? - Yes. - On Granby Street? - Uh-huh, but. - Church Street had Black businesses? - Some Black businesses, but they had, most of them were White businesses. - White owned? - White owned, yes. - But they were for a Black clientele? - Well, more or less, you know, you would see White people in there shopping too, but. - The Blacks were more accepted on Church Street? - Right. Well, I guess the people, even at that time, I mean, even on Church Street felt some kind of segregation too, but you know, I never experienced it, so. - What ways might they have experienced segregation on Church Street? - For instance, if there were, if there was a White person in the store, they would recognize them before, you know, they would recognize you. - So you'd just be standing there? - Yes, mm-hmm. - But it was worse on Granby Street? - Oh yes. - Did you shop on Granby Street? - I'll tell you the truth, not during the school years, I don't think I ever remember. I don't remember. I might have, but I don't remember. Can't recall. - So Church Street had clothing stores? - Yeah, shoe stores and furniture stores and whatever. - And would you go to the movies? - Yes, the movies were on Church Street, too. - Okay, so was that all Black movie theater? - Yes, but they were owned by White, but they were Black movies, you know, for Black people, movies for Black people. - Did you ever go to a movie theater that was like segregated within the movie house? - No, uh-uh. - They just had to go- - Yes. - And Whites would go somewhere else? - Yes, on Granby Street and other streets, mm-hmm. - What'd you do after high school? - Well, I got married in, I got married in, you want the year? - Sure. - I got married in '42, 1942. And then my first child was born in '40- one minute- '43, that's when it was, mm-hm. - Did you work? - Not at that time, I didn't. And then I had a second child in '44. And I think I worked between the third child, the second and the third child, which was, huh? - What'd you do? - Housework. - So you- - At that time I did housework. - So what year did you have your third child? - '48. - Okay. And where'd you work? - After she was born I did some catering. I did catering at a all White church. - So you, would you cook at the church or? - Yes, mm-hmm. And in the meantime I was still doing housework and I went to beauty school at night. - So where did you do housework? - You mean what area? - Yeah, and well, for whom? - Well, the White people that I did the housework for- - Was it a family? - Yes, mm-hmm. Well, a husband and a wife, wasn't, you know, they didn't have children. I don't even know what the year I started beauty school and what year I came out of beauty school. It was in the fifties, I know that I completed it. Then I worked for a few years in the beauty salon. - What was that like? - Enjoyable, 'cause I enjoyed doing hair. The only thing about working in the beauty parlor was the majority of the people work days and you had to work nights. So I worked for a while, but after my children started getting in the teenage years, I came out of the beauty parlor so I could be home evenings with them. - Okay, so you worked in the evenings when you started. - When I first started I'd work any time, day, but I'd work through the evenings, you know, but you got mostly your appointments in the evening after, you know, working hours after four o'clock I would say. So then. - What's the salon did you work for? - In the beauty parlor? - Yeah, the beauty parlor. - I think, let's see, until '60, 1960, 'cause I had another child in '61. - Okay. - I'd say '61 because no, it was '60 in 1960 because he was born in the early '61. - So what salon, what beauty parlor did you work for, the name of it? - Beatrice Beauty Salon. - And where was that? - In Huntersville. - Was it a big salon? - I'd say, well comparing to the salons today it was small 'cause it had six chairs in it, you know. - And did most of your clientele what'd they do for a living? - Were they what? - Did, were they school teachers or were they? - Yeah, some school teachers, housewives, domestic workers, like, you know, I had been. - A whole range of people? - Yes, mm-hmm, right. Yes, and of course, after I had my fourth son, I would stay at home for a while, but I guess until he was about, I don't know, four or four and a half anyway, I put him in kindergarten and I went back to doing day's work. So when he left out, I would leave out and by the time he got back home, you know, I was coming in or my father at that time would take him in if I, you know, didn't get there before he did. - So what did your husband do? - He was a stevedore. That- And now his first job, he was, he worked in a fish shop where they sold fish, the fish market. And then he became, you know, he went to the tobacco company after the first job. And then he went in service. - Did he serve in the war? - He been overseas, but the war ended when he got- - Okay, so that was World War II? - Yes, this was World War II. And when he came back, he went, he got a job as a stevedore. He worked on a longshoreman's corner and then he went down to the Naval Supply Center. - So what was it like during World War II? Because you had children. - Yes, I had, during World War II, I had two children when he went in the service. - Because they had like the rations. - Right. Yeah, I'll tell you the truth, I done forgot all about the war. (interviewer laughs) - So I guess it must not have been that difficult. - No, I, no. I tell you, it- I guess, I tell you the truth I never really had that much money to work with. So I always could budget. (phone rings) [INTERRUPTION] - You were saying that you could budget. - Yes, I learned to budget very well. So I think we did pretty good. We had problems. We would get behind in little things at different times, but you know, we basically made it. - You had help from your parents? - Well, yes, because when I first got married, I lived with my parents until the second child was born and this was when my husband went in service. And then when he came out of service, we got an apartment. - And what church did you go to? - At that time, I was going to the Church of God and True Holiness. - And what denomination is that? - Congregational Christian. Okay, then when I, when we got an apartment to ourselves, we lived next door to Shiloh Baptist and I sent my children to Shiloh Baptist Church. And, of course, I went there on occasions, too. - And what church did you grow up in? Did you grow up in- - In the Church of God and True Holiness, mm-hmm. - What was that like? - Well, we enjoyed it, you know, you know how children are, they always had your space, you know, kids sat on one side of the church. And we were involved in different things and Sunday school and speaking, putting on programs. - So. (phone rings) - I'll take this off. [INTERRUPTION] - So was it like a social aspect of going to church as well? - Yes. Yes. - [Answering Machine Message] Hello, I'm not able to answer your call at this time. - We, it was a group of us, you know, that always got together and would walk to church and you know, we enjoyed it. (Answering machine beeps). - So do you remember any of like the signs of segregation in Norfolk? - Yes, riding the bus where the Blacks had to sit in the back, the Whites in the front. How a White person could come up and ask you to move, to get up and let them have the seat and, take that phone off the hook for me, please. Thank you. - And were there any other, like the bathrooms or bus stations where you had separate? - Yes, there were. I know in the bus terminals. I never rode a train from Norfolk. I rode a boat and got on a train in Cape Charles, but I don't remember whether, you know. - What boat would you get on? - Well, I don't know what the boat was. It was a ferry would take you to Cape Charles when you were going north, you had to catch the boat from Norfolk, the ferry from Norfolk and- Kiptopeke Ferry. That's what it was, was called. (phone disconnected beeps) Oh gosh, that's going to be- - That's okay, that's okay. - It's going to be on there. (phone disconnected beeps) It'll stop. - Okay. (phone disconnected beeps) And I never experienced any segregation on the boat, I guess I was never had to go to the, you know, the restrooms or anything like that. (phone disconnected beeps) - Did your grand, your grandmother was alive when you first moved in? - Yes. - Did she tell you any stories, like family stories? - Mm, yes. They used to tell little things, but I don't remember it now. - Did she tell you stories about slavery? - Oh, no. - What newspapers did you read? - "The Virginian-Pilot" and "The Journal and Guide," which was a Black newspaper. "The Pilot" wasn't Black. It was, it's White. - And would the White paper include any like Black news or things that were going on in the Black community? - I'm sure so, but I don't remember. - But to find out about Black stuff, you mostly read "The Journal and Guide"? - "The Guide," yes. I'm sure they, the White paper, printed Black news, probably. I guess all the bad things, I'm sure. (interviewer chuckles) - Mm-hmm. - Oh, health. Could you tell me a little bit about healthcare? - Healthcare? - Yeah, like would you go to, did you go to the hospital and have your children? - Yes, I did, but I went to an all Black hospital. - Okay. So most people when they had their children, they went to the hospital? - Well, no, not most people. I mean, a lot of people, you know, went to hospital, but I know a lot of people that stayed home had midwives. - Midwives. - Mm-hmm. But I guess I was just fortunate, you know, to have gone to the hospital. - So most people couldn't necessarily afford to go to the hospital? - Well, I think maybe during the time that I was having my children, I believe that most folks- Well, at least most I knew, you know, they had jobs. So, and at that time it was much, much cheaper to have a child then than it is now. 'Cause I remember my first one, I paid 27.50. (laughs) - That's good. You would like that, now? - Yeah. Mm-hmm. - Did you ever travel? - Yes, we would travel mostly to Philadelphia. I had an aunt and uncle and that's where my grandmother eventually went to Philadelphia to live. I had cousins up there, so. - What do you remember about traveling? Did you enjoy it? - Yes, you know, you always enjoy being with family. Of course we had eventually, you know, had friends up there. I still communicate with, you know, a friend, there. - Was Philadelphia, a lot different than Norfolk at the time or was it kind of the same? - I think, I'm thinking that there was some difference and perhaps I did not notice, you know, the differences, but I really don't know. You go and visit, you know, you get out and go around to different places, shopping and to the stores and all, but I never noticed that much. But other than riding the buses myself, I never really felt a lot of segregation. Maybe I didn't go to the places, you know, but you know. - So you could kind of avoid like the insults. - Mm-hmm, well no, I never, you know, experienced anything like that. And I don't think it was because I avoided to, you know, but I just never experienced anything like that. - There was like a Black community large enough that you didn't have to- - Well, yes, that's true. And then too, in the later years when I did start shopping, you know, on Granby Street and wherever, I still didn't experience any major segregations, you know. - Do you think that was because Norfolk was more urban? - It might have been. And then too, you know, there's a lot of servicemen in this area, you know, especially Navy men, you know. - How would that have affected? - I don't know. I imagine because I just have seen, you know- Now I've heard of, you know, segregation among the servicemen, but I used to see the Black and the Whites together, you know, in the early years, so. - And that was kind of normal because it was a mix of people in the area. - Yes, and then too, they were, you can push that. They were, I imagine because they were servicemen and I guess stationed together and had become friends, you know? - Okay. Where would you take your children 'cause you lived in like an urban area. Were there parks where you- - Yes, there was a city park which was segregated and then there was a park in Huntersville that it was a nice park that the kids always used. - And that was an all Black park? - Yes, it was. - How was the other park segregated? - Well, how? They had, I guess they. - Did they, they have dividers, are there certain areas you weren't supposed to go? - No, I don't, I never experienced anything like that. - Oh, okay. - Because they, the city park, you know, you had the animals and all different things like that looked over. I could be, you know. - Just seems strange they would try to segregate a park. - Maybe you just felt that way. You know, knowing how, how the area was. - Children weren't, White and Black children couldn't play. - Oh, well they didn't, you know, I guess unless the schools carry, of course at that time, the say, you know, schools weren't integrated. - Mm-hmm. - But I know the schools would carry the kids, you know, out to city park. And of course my kids, you know, I took them to the beach. We had a couple of Black beaches in the area, City Beach and Seaview Beach. There was a Buckroe Beach over in Newport News or Hampton one, I don't know which, Newport News, I think it is. I don't know. You know, churches used to, especially in the summertime after vacation Bible school, they always had a big day at the beach. So that was something that kids always look forward to. - So did you enjoy this time? - Yes, I did. I guess we were poor folks, but we didn't know we were poor, you know, and I think the neighborhood was, was closer then, you know, than it is now. - You had a lot of friends in your area? - Oh, well, yes, you know, nice neighbors. And of course you could tell a neighbor's child to behave or a neighbor could tell your child to behave and you know, they would, he would see the difference. - Okay.