WEBVTT
1
00:00:01.290 --> 00:00:03.180
[Blair Murphy] Your birth and your place of birth.
2
00:00:03.180 --> 00:00:06.698
[Annie Benton] Annie M Benton.
3
00:00:11.109 --> 00:00:12.395
And when?
4
00:00:13.770 --> 00:00:18.573
November 19th, 1924.
5
00:00:21.080 --> 00:00:22.563
In Norfolk, Virginia.
6
00:00:24.900 --> 00:00:27.899
And what was it like here in Norfolk
7
00:00:27.899 --> 00:00:30.273
when you were a little girl?
8
00:00:30.273 --> 00:00:35.273
Well I, being born in, in the twenties,
9
00:00:35.610 --> 00:00:39.930
I really, I don't remember too much, you know, about that.
10
00:00:39.930 --> 00:00:44.190
But, even in the thirties,
11
00:00:44.190 --> 00:00:49.190
we were a family that
12
00:00:52.050 --> 00:00:54.660
grandparent, one grandparent-
13
00:00:54.660 --> 00:00:57.840
'cause my grandfather had passed-
14
00:00:57.840 --> 00:01:00.990
was living with us and she had young,
15
00:01:00.990 --> 00:01:05.550
young children, young boy and a young girl at that time.
16
00:01:05.550 --> 00:01:10.550
So we were all living in a place together,
17
00:01:10.560 --> 00:01:13.920
apartment, and close knit families.
18
00:01:13.920 --> 00:01:15.700
And all the parents worked
19
00:01:16.590 --> 00:01:20.913
and they did menial work, you know, labor.
20
00:01:22.050 --> 00:01:25.110
My mother did housework.
21
00:01:25.110 --> 00:01:26.770
My grandmother did housework
22
00:01:28.140 --> 00:01:31.390
and my father worked
23
00:01:32.310 --> 00:01:34.923
on the salvage yard.
24
00:01:36.420 --> 00:01:38.493
We called it junk yard at that time.
25
00:01:39.600 --> 00:01:40.683
He was a welder.
26
00:01:43.140 --> 00:01:47.493
So it left really pretty much the children home.
27
00:01:48.510 --> 00:01:52.735
Of course we went to school, but mostly,
28
00:01:52.735 --> 00:01:55.080
we took care of the house.
29
00:01:55.080 --> 00:01:56.610
How many brothers and sisters did you have?
30
00:01:56.610 --> 00:01:59.520
I had one sister.
31
00:01:59.520 --> 00:02:03.600
I had two sisters, but the oldest one died
32
00:02:03.600 --> 00:02:04.470
when she was six.
33
00:02:04.470 --> 00:02:06.323
So I don't remember her.
Okay.
34
00:02:08.847 --> 00:02:11.340
But I do have one sister.
35
00:02:11.340 --> 00:02:13.980
What part of Norfolk did you live in?
36
00:02:13.980 --> 00:02:15.817
Lived in Huntersville.
37
00:02:15.817 --> 00:02:16.650
Okay.
38
00:02:19.650 --> 00:02:21.120
I haven't heard of that area.
39
00:02:21.120 --> 00:02:22.143
Where is it?
40
00:02:23.670 --> 00:02:26.433
Let's see, it runs into Tidewater Drive.
41
00:02:29.580 --> 00:02:32.340
Well, going east, I think,
42
00:02:32.340 --> 00:02:35.933
from where you, which is the way you came, I think.
43
00:02:37.270 --> 00:02:40.960
Okay, and that was mostly Black community?
44
00:02:40.960 --> 00:02:43.350
Yes, all Black community.
45
00:02:43.350 --> 00:02:48.023
Except there was a couple of stores
46
00:02:49.770 --> 00:02:53.580
that was run by Jews
47
00:02:53.580 --> 00:02:58.580
and they lived in the apartments above the store, right.
48
00:03:00.390 --> 00:03:04.320
But basically it was a Black community.
49
00:03:04.320 --> 00:03:06.003
It was a Black community.
50
00:03:12.030 --> 00:03:14.730
So did you live in a, like a house
51
00:03:14.730 --> 00:03:15.840
or did you live in an apartment?
52
00:03:15.840 --> 00:03:18.363
No, we lived in an apartment.
53
00:03:23.160 --> 00:03:26.920
It was a two bedroom apartment
54
00:03:28.146 --> 00:03:33.146
on our first apartment that we lived in.
55
00:03:33.960 --> 00:03:36.873
I remembered our bath was outdoors,
56
00:03:42.270 --> 00:03:45.600
but then we finally moved from there
57
00:03:45.600 --> 00:03:47.673
to a house that had a bath.
58
00:03:51.960 --> 00:03:55.243
Do you remember how old you were when you moved?
59
00:03:55.243 --> 00:03:56.733
I think maybe around,
60
00:03:59.100 --> 00:04:01.083
probably around eight or nine.
61
00:04:03.435 --> 00:04:06.783
Do you know how, where your father learned to do welding?
62
00:04:07.920 --> 00:04:09.603
No, I really don't,
63
00:04:12.390 --> 00:04:13.223
I really don't.
64
00:04:13.223 --> 00:04:15.720
I know he was in, in the service,
65
00:04:15.720 --> 00:04:20.100
but all I remember hearing him speak of about the service
66
00:04:20.100 --> 00:04:23.733
was that he was a cook in the service.
67
00:04:25.440 --> 00:04:29.283
So was he, did he enlist or did he, was he drafted?
68
00:04:31.290 --> 00:04:34.173
He was drafted during World War I.
69
00:04:37.498 --> 00:04:38.910
So did he go overseas?
70
00:04:38.910 --> 00:04:41.163
No, he didn't get to go overseas.
71
00:04:44.460 --> 00:04:46.680
And were your parents born in this area as well?
72
00:04:46.680 --> 00:04:50.880
No, my father was born in a little place
73
00:04:50.880 --> 00:04:53.130
on the other side of Emporia, Virginia
74
00:04:53.130 --> 00:04:55.773
called Pleasant Shade, Virginia.
75
00:04:59.850 --> 00:05:02.400
Most, a lot of people never heard of Pleasant Shade,
76
00:05:02.400 --> 00:05:04.413
but they have heard of Emporia.
77
00:05:07.170 --> 00:05:10.083
And my mother was born in Hickory, Virginia,
78
00:05:11.910 --> 00:05:13.383
which is near Chesapeake.
79
00:05:15.018 --> 00:05:20.018
So it's just, in the area.
Yeah, uh-huh.
80
00:05:21.279 --> 00:05:25.720
And they met in Norfolk, 'cause when he left
81
00:05:27.510 --> 00:05:29.100
Emp- Pleasant Shade,
82
00:05:29.100 --> 00:05:32.253
he went into the service and he settled in this area.
83
00:05:35.910 --> 00:05:38.580
So what was the name of your first school?
84
00:05:38.580 --> 00:05:41.343
My first school? John T. West.
85
00:05:45.210 --> 00:05:48.860
And how far was that from here? Where is it?
86
00:05:48.860 --> 00:05:51.900
When I went to started in John T. West,
87
00:05:51.900 --> 00:05:53.523
I was living on,
88
00:05:55.230 --> 00:05:59.403
I guess maybe a couple of blocks away from school.
89
00:06:00.480 --> 00:06:01.710
So you walked to school?
90
00:06:01.710 --> 00:06:02.543
Yes.
91
00:06:03.660 --> 00:06:05.057
How big was your school?
92
00:06:06.360 --> 00:06:10.290
It was a two story school
93
00:06:10.290 --> 00:06:12.933
and it went to the sixth grade.
94
00:06:15.060 --> 00:06:18.360
So did each grade have its own teacher?
95
00:06:18.360 --> 00:06:19.233
Yes.
96
00:06:20.400 --> 00:06:22.473
And they also had the little,
97
00:06:24.630 --> 00:06:27.750
had some couple of rooms on the outside
98
00:06:27.750 --> 00:06:32.313
of the larger school for the some lower grades.
99
00:06:35.430 --> 00:06:38.640
And after attending John T. West,
100
00:06:38.640 --> 00:06:40.620
I went to the junior high school,
101
00:06:40.620 --> 00:06:45.620
which was Booker T, Booker T. Washington,
102
00:06:46.500 --> 00:06:49.080
which is Booker T. Washington High School now.
103
00:06:49.080 --> 00:06:54.080
It was Booker T. Washington Intermediate
104
00:06:54.690 --> 00:06:58.372
on one side of the auditorium,
And the high school
105
00:06:58.372 --> 00:06:59.205
on the other side?
106
00:06:59.205 --> 00:07:00.875
And the high school on the other side
107
00:07:00.875 --> 00:07:01.708
of the auditorium.
108
00:07:01.708 --> 00:07:02.610
And that was a very large school?
109
00:07:02.610 --> 00:07:03.910
Yes, it was.
110
00:07:06.690 --> 00:07:09.623
And that was seventh grade through eighth.
111
00:07:12.210 --> 00:07:15.393
When you went to the ninth grade you went to high school.
112
00:07:16.230 --> 00:07:18.120
So you went to Booker T. Washington High School?
113
00:07:18.120 --> 00:07:19.745
Right, uh-huh.
114
00:07:19.745 --> 00:07:24.745
So what do you remember about that school?
115
00:07:26.563 --> 00:07:28.213
What do I remember?
116
00:07:28.213 --> 00:07:29.046
Well, I,
117
00:07:34.590 --> 00:07:39.420
let's see, basically was a lot-
118
00:07:39.420 --> 00:07:41.400
well, naturally it was a lot of studying
119
00:07:41.400 --> 00:07:45.123
and I didn't get to-
120
00:07:46.470 --> 00:07:48.413
I wasn't a socializer.
121
00:07:48.413 --> 00:07:51.054
I didn't socialize very much. (laughs) So.
122
00:07:52.421 --> 00:07:53.254
But I
123
00:07:57.690 --> 00:08:02.193
went to basketball games and they had football games.
124
00:08:07.620 --> 00:08:09.240
Did you like your teachers?
125
00:08:09.240 --> 00:08:10.740
Well, yes.
126
00:08:10.740 --> 00:08:13.623
I don't know of a teacher that I really didn't like, so.
127
00:08:17.812 --> 00:08:20.577
And you know, they put on plays and-
128
00:08:25.994 --> 00:08:27.810
So it was all Black high school as well?
129
00:08:27.810 --> 00:08:28.990
Yes, it was.
130
00:08:30.177 --> 00:08:33.360
And did you have good access to books
131
00:08:33.360 --> 00:08:34.890
and things like that
132
00:08:34.890 --> 00:08:36.190
being a large high school?
133
00:08:39.030 --> 00:08:41.147
Yeah, I'm trying to remember, did we.
134
00:08:42.718 --> 00:08:43.551
We had books.
135
00:08:43.551 --> 00:08:48.030
I think the school let you have books,
136
00:08:48.030 --> 00:08:50.700
but you had to turn those books back in
137
00:08:50.700 --> 00:08:53.940
at the end of the semester, mm-hmm.
138
00:08:53.940 --> 00:08:57.259
Did you have a library in the school?
139
00:08:57.259 --> 00:08:58.650
In the school?
140
00:08:58.650 --> 00:09:02.973
We always went to Blyden Branch library,
141
00:09:04.320 --> 00:09:05.153
which was,
142
00:09:09.420 --> 00:09:11.493
that was near my house too.
143
00:09:12.736 --> 00:09:13.749
That was a public library?
144
00:09:13.749 --> 00:09:14.916
Yes, it was.
145
00:09:16.079 --> 00:09:19.803
Was it the city library or?
146
00:09:21.208 --> 00:09:25.350
No, it was just an area library
147
00:09:25.350 --> 00:09:26.973
in the Huntersville area.
148
00:09:28.830 --> 00:09:30.806
So was it considered a Black library?
149
00:09:30.806 --> 00:09:32.056
Yes, I would.
150
00:09:40.050 --> 00:09:42.780
What do you remember about Norfolk?
151
00:09:42.780 --> 00:09:44.253
Like where would you shop?
152
00:09:47.550 --> 00:09:52.550
On Church Street was the largest shopping area.
153
00:09:56.280 --> 00:09:59.880
Of course, some people shopped on Granby Street,
154
00:09:59.880 --> 00:10:04.880
but basically, it was segregation during the early years.
155
00:10:06.060 --> 00:10:11.060
And a lot of people didn't go on Granby Street
156
00:10:12.000 --> 00:10:14.370
because you know, they-
157
00:10:14.370 --> 00:10:16.170
Well, you know how salespeople-
158
00:10:16.170 --> 00:10:20.190
Well, no, you don't know neither, how salespeople were.
159
00:10:20.190 --> 00:10:22.410
They would rather wait on a White person
160
00:10:22.410 --> 00:10:24.321
before they would wait on you, you know,
161
00:10:24.321 --> 00:10:27.563
so a lot of people just didn't go in that area.
162
00:10:27.563 --> 00:10:28.950
So those were White businesses?
163
00:10:28.950 --> 00:10:30.150
Yes.
164
00:10:30.150 --> 00:10:31.560
On Granby Street?
165
00:10:31.560 --> 00:10:32.493
Uh-huh, but.
166
00:10:34.860 --> 00:10:37.320
Church Street had Black businesses?
167
00:10:37.320 --> 00:10:38.730
Some Black businesses,
168
00:10:38.730 --> 00:10:41.883
but they had, most of them were White businesses.
169
00:10:43.153 --> 00:10:44.280
White owned?
170
00:10:44.280 --> 00:10:45.230
White owned, yes.
171
00:10:48.150 --> 00:10:50.913
But they were for a Black clientele?
172
00:10:52.560 --> 00:10:55.740
Well, more or less, you know,
173
00:10:55.740 --> 00:10:58.773
you would see White people in there shopping too, but.
174
00:11:03.300 --> 00:11:04.920
The Blacks were more accepted on Church Street?
175
00:11:04.920 --> 00:11:05.753
Right.
176
00:11:09.450 --> 00:11:14.070
Well, I guess the people, even at that time, I mean,
177
00:11:14.070 --> 00:11:15.280
even on Church Street
178
00:11:17.580 --> 00:11:19.450
felt some kind of
179
00:11:22.350 --> 00:11:26.313
segregation too, but you know, I never experienced it, so.
180
00:11:28.860 --> 00:11:31.440
What ways might they have experienced segregation
181
00:11:31.440 --> 00:11:32.850
on Church Street?
182
00:11:32.850 --> 00:11:34.680
For instance, if there were,
183
00:11:34.680 --> 00:11:37.170
if there was a White person in the store,
184
00:11:37.170 --> 00:11:39.312
they would recognize them before,
185
00:11:39.312 --> 00:11:41.062
you know, they would recognize you.
186
00:11:41.910 --> 00:11:43.350
So you'd just be standing there?
187
00:11:43.350 --> 00:11:44.740
Yes, mm-hmm.
188
00:11:48.167 --> 00:11:50.010
But it was worse on Granby Street?
189
00:11:50.010 --> 00:11:51.270
Oh yes.
190
00:11:51.270 --> 00:11:52.870
Did you shop on Granby Street?
191
00:11:54.912 --> 00:11:56.070
I'll tell you the truth,
192
00:11:56.070 --> 00:11:59.165
not during the school years, I don't think I ever remember.
193
00:11:59.165 --> 00:12:00.900
I don't remember.
194
00:12:00.900 --> 00:12:03.060
I might have, but I don't remember.
195
00:12:03.060 --> 00:12:04.053
Can't recall.
196
00:12:04.890 --> 00:12:07.440
So Church Street had clothing stores?
197
00:12:07.440 --> 00:12:12.440
Yeah, shoe stores and furniture stores and whatever.
198
00:12:17.370 --> 00:12:20.190
And would you go to the movies?
199
00:12:20.190 --> 00:12:24.547
Yes, the movies were on Church Street, too.
200
00:12:24.547 --> 00:12:27.390
Okay, so was that all Black movie theater?
201
00:12:27.390 --> 00:12:30.903
Yes, but they were owned by White,
202
00:12:32.880 --> 00:12:36.900
but they were Black movies, you know, for Black people,
203
00:12:36.900 --> 00:12:38.193
movies for Black people.
204
00:12:40.680 --> 00:12:41.940
Did you ever go to a movie theater
205
00:12:41.940 --> 00:12:45.030
that was like segregated within the movie house?
206
00:12:45.030 --> 00:12:46.920
No, uh-uh.
207
00:12:46.920 --> 00:12:48.990
They just had to go-
Yes.
208
00:12:48.990 --> 00:12:50.460
And Whites would go somewhere else?
209
00:12:50.460 --> 00:12:54.967
Yes, on Granby Street and other streets, mm-hmm.
210
00:13:06.210 --> 00:13:08.413
What'd you do after high school?
211
00:13:11.130 --> 00:13:15.203
Well, I got married in,
212
00:13:15.203 --> 00:13:17.763
I got married in, you want the year?
213
00:13:17.763 --> 00:13:18.596
Sure.
214
00:13:18.596 --> 00:13:23.103
I got married in '42, 1942.
215
00:13:27.782 --> 00:13:32.241
And then my first child was born in
216
00:13:32.241 --> 00:13:37.241
'40- one minute-
217
00:13:39.670 --> 00:13:41.553
'43, that's when it was, mm-hm.
218
00:13:45.000 --> 00:13:45.833
Did you work?
219
00:13:47.412 --> 00:13:49.980
Not at that time, I didn't.
220
00:13:49.980 --> 00:13:52.393
And then I had a second child in '44.
221
00:13:59.658 --> 00:14:03.408
And I think I worked between the third child,
222
00:14:05.370 --> 00:14:08.879
the second and the third child, which was, huh?
223
00:14:08.879 --> 00:14:10.409
What'd you do?
224
00:14:10.409 --> 00:14:11.409
Housework.
225
00:14:13.938 --> 00:14:15.128
So you-
At that time
226
00:14:15.128 --> 00:14:16.461
I did housework.
227
00:14:19.990 --> 00:14:21.960
So what year did you have your third child?
228
00:14:21.960 --> 00:14:22.793
'48.
229
00:14:22.793 --> 00:14:23.626
Okay.
230
00:14:25.830 --> 00:14:27.123
And where'd you work?
231
00:14:28.290 --> 00:14:32.580
After she was born I did some catering.
232
00:14:32.580 --> 00:14:34.660
I did catering at
233
00:14:36.892 --> 00:14:38.163
a all White church.
234
00:14:44.310 --> 00:14:46.410
So you, would you cook at the church or?
235
00:14:48.632 --> 00:14:49.799
Yes, mm-hmm.
236
00:14:51.954 --> 00:14:54.630
And in the meantime
237
00:14:54.630 --> 00:14:59.630
I was still doing housework
238
00:14:59.640 --> 00:15:02.883
and I went to beauty school at night.
239
00:15:07.920 --> 00:15:09.723
So where did you do housework?
240
00:15:11.610 --> 00:15:12.870
You mean what area?
241
00:15:12.870 --> 00:15:14.787
Yeah, and well, for whom?
242
00:15:15.705 --> 00:15:19.095
Well, the White people that I did the housework for-
243
00:15:19.095 --> 00:15:20.265
Was it a family?
244
00:15:20.265 --> 00:15:21.432
Yes, mm-hmm.
245
00:15:22.927 --> 00:15:24.180
Well, a husband and a wife,
246
00:15:24.180 --> 00:15:27.750
wasn't, you know, they didn't have children.
247
00:15:37.327 --> 00:15:40.647
I don't even know what the year I started beauty school
248
00:15:40.647 --> 00:15:43.710
and what year I came out of beauty school.
249
00:15:43.710 --> 00:15:44.940
It was in the fifties,
250
00:15:44.940 --> 00:15:48.693
I know that I completed it.
251
00:15:50.070 --> 00:15:54.063
Then I worked for a few years in the beauty salon.
252
00:15:56.040 --> 00:15:57.090
What was that like?
253
00:15:58.500 --> 00:16:00.783
Enjoyable, 'cause I enjoyed doing hair.
254
00:16:05.520 --> 00:16:09.120
The only thing about working in the beauty parlor
255
00:16:09.120 --> 00:16:12.040
was the majority of the people work days
256
00:16:12.930 --> 00:16:15.270
and you had to work nights.
257
00:16:15.270 --> 00:16:16.770
So I worked for a while,
258
00:16:16.770 --> 00:16:21.270
but after my children started getting in the teenage years,
259
00:16:21.270 --> 00:16:23.520
I came out of the beauty parlor
260
00:16:23.520 --> 00:16:25.503
so I could be home evenings with them.
261
00:16:26.470 --> 00:16:28.860
Okay, so you worked in the evenings when you started.
262
00:16:28.860 --> 00:16:32.190
When I first started I'd work any time, day,
263
00:16:32.190 --> 00:16:34.413
but I'd work through the evenings, you know,
264
00:16:36.360 --> 00:16:39.750
but you got mostly your appointments in the evening
265
00:16:39.750 --> 00:16:41.640
after, you know, working hours
266
00:16:41.640 --> 00:16:43.190
after four o'clock I would say.
267
00:16:48.930 --> 00:16:50.250
So then.
268
00:16:50.250 --> 00:16:52.530
What's the salon did you work for?
269
00:16:52.530 --> 00:16:53.570
In the beauty parlor?
270
00:16:53.570 --> 00:16:55.737
Yeah, the beauty parlor.
271
00:16:57.660 --> 00:17:00.240
I think, let's see,
272
00:17:00.240 --> 00:17:04.293
until '60,
273
00:17:06.180 --> 00:17:09.553
1960, 'cause I had another child in '61.
274
00:17:10.537 --> 00:17:11.370
Okay.
275
00:17:13.860 --> 00:17:18.010
I'd say '61 because no, it was '60 in 1960
276
00:17:19.800 --> 00:17:22.890
because he was born in the early '61.
277
00:17:22.890 --> 00:17:25.404
So what salon, what beauty parlor
278
00:17:25.404 --> 00:17:27.897
did you work for, the name of it?
279
00:17:27.897 --> 00:17:29.897
Beatrice Beauty Salon.
280
00:17:33.017 --> 00:17:33.850
And where was that?
281
00:17:33.850 --> 00:17:35.350
In Huntersville.
282
00:17:39.899 --> 00:17:41.649
Was it a big salon?
283
00:17:43.017 --> 00:17:48.017
I'd say, well comparing to the salons today
284
00:17:48.060 --> 00:17:49.060
it was small
285
00:17:50.310 --> 00:17:55.310
'cause it had six chairs in it, you know.
286
00:17:59.100 --> 00:18:02.899
And did most of your clientele
287
00:18:02.899 --> 00:18:05.561
what'd they do for a living?
288
00:18:05.561 --> 00:18:06.704
Were they what?
289
00:18:06.704 --> 00:18:09.660
Did, were they school teachers or were they?
290
00:18:09.660 --> 00:18:12.813
Yeah, some school teachers, housewives,
291
00:18:13.830 --> 00:18:15.840
domestic workers, like, you know,
292
00:18:15.840 --> 00:18:17.430
I had been.
A whole
293
00:18:17.430 --> 00:18:19.920
range of people?
Yes, mm-hmm, right.
294
00:18:19.920 --> 00:18:24.920
Yes, and of course, after I had my fourth son,
295
00:18:25.380 --> 00:18:28.210
I would stay at home for a while, but
296
00:18:30.870 --> 00:18:35.130
I guess until he was about, I don't know,
297
00:18:35.130 --> 00:18:37.833
four or four and a half anyway,
298
00:18:38.790 --> 00:18:41.053
I put him in kindergarten and
299
00:18:44.190 --> 00:18:46.803
I went back to doing day's work.
300
00:18:48.420 --> 00:18:51.298
So when he left out, I would leave out
301
00:18:51.298 --> 00:18:54.180
and by the time he got back home, you know,
302
00:18:54.180 --> 00:18:55.180
I was coming in
303
00:18:56.760 --> 00:18:59.250
or my father at that time would take him in
304
00:18:59.250 --> 00:19:02.793
if I, you know, didn't get there before he did.
305
00:19:04.680 --> 00:19:06.420
So what did your husband do?
306
00:19:06.420 --> 00:19:08.380
He was a stevedore. That-
307
00:19:09.540 --> 00:19:11.673
And now his first job, he was,
308
00:19:15.180 --> 00:19:18.300
he worked in
309
00:19:18.300 --> 00:19:22.350
a fish shop
310
00:19:22.350 --> 00:19:24.543
where they sold fish, the fish market.
311
00:19:27.420 --> 00:19:29.680
And then he became, you know,
312
00:19:32.060 --> 00:19:35.193
he went to the tobacco company after the first job.
313
00:19:40.230 --> 00:19:44.733
And then he went in service.
314
00:19:47.880 --> 00:19:50.580
Did he serve in the war?
315
00:19:50.580 --> 00:19:53.727
He been overseas, but the war ended when he got-
316
00:19:54.660 --> 00:19:56.427
Okay, so that was World War II?
317
00:19:56.427 --> 00:19:58.844
Yes, this was World War II.
318
00:20:01.230 --> 00:20:03.213
And when he came back, he went,
319
00:20:04.050 --> 00:20:06.283
he got a job as a stevedore.
320
00:20:07.640 --> 00:20:09.880
He worked on a longshoreman's corner
321
00:20:10.740 --> 00:20:14.673
and then he went down to the Naval Supply Center.
322
00:20:21.900 --> 00:20:25.070
So what was it like during World War II?
323
00:20:25.070 --> 00:20:27.840
Because you had children.
324
00:20:27.840 --> 00:20:31.080
Yes, I had, during World War II,
325
00:20:31.080 --> 00:20:34.420
I had two children when he went in the service.
326
00:20:36.600 --> 00:20:38.820
Because they had like the rations.
327
00:20:38.820 --> 00:20:39.653
Right.
328
00:20:44.670 --> 00:20:46.342
Yeah, I'll tell you the truth,
329
00:20:46.342 --> 00:20:48.200
I done forgot all about the war.
330
00:20:48.200 --> 00:20:51.639
(interviewer laughs)
331
00:20:51.639 --> 00:20:53.572
So I guess it must not have been that difficult.
332
00:20:53.572 --> 00:20:54.489
No, I, no.
333
00:20:55.400 --> 00:20:59.091
I tell you, it-
334
00:20:59.091 --> 00:20:59.924
I guess,
335
00:21:01.559 --> 00:21:03.060
I tell you the truth I never really had
336
00:21:03.060 --> 00:21:05.040
that much money to work with.
337
00:21:05.040 --> 00:21:07.593
So I always could budget. (phone rings)
338
00:21:09.837 --> 00:21:10.670
[INTERRUPTION]
339
00:21:11.580 --> 00:21:14.010
You were saying that you could budget.
340
00:21:14.010 --> 00:21:16.623
Yes, I learned to budget very well.
341
00:21:18.469 --> 00:21:21.273
So I think we did pretty good.
342
00:21:22.950 --> 00:21:24.120
We had problems.
343
00:21:24.120 --> 00:21:26.560
We would
344
00:21:28.140 --> 00:21:30.540
get behind in little things at different times,
345
00:21:30.540 --> 00:21:34.833
but you know, we basically made it.
346
00:21:38.700 --> 00:21:40.890
You had help from your parents?
347
00:21:40.890 --> 00:21:43.470
Well, yes, because when I first got married,
348
00:21:43.470 --> 00:21:48.470
I lived with my parents until the second child was born
349
00:21:50.460 --> 00:21:55.460
and this was when my husband went in service.
350
00:21:55.950 --> 00:22:00.423
And then when he came out of service, we got an apartment.
351
00:22:06.728 --> 00:22:09.090
And what church did you go to?
352
00:22:09.090 --> 00:22:12.390
At that time, I was going to the Church of God
353
00:22:12.390 --> 00:22:13.773
and True Holiness.
354
00:22:23.220 --> 00:22:24.820
And what denomination is that?
355
00:22:25.920 --> 00:22:27.363
Congregational Christian.
356
00:22:36.760 --> 00:22:41.583
Okay, then when I, when we got an apartment to ourselves,
357
00:22:42.630 --> 00:22:45.240
we lived next door to Shiloh Baptist
358
00:22:45.240 --> 00:22:50.240
and I sent my children to Shiloh Baptist Church.
359
00:22:53.325 --> 00:22:55.675
And, of course, I went there on occasions, too.
360
00:23:00.883 --> 00:23:02.444
And what church did you grow up in?
361
00:23:02.444 --> 00:23:03.277
Did you grow up in-
362
00:23:03.277 --> 00:23:07.077
In the Church of God and True Holiness, mm-hmm.
363
00:23:07.077 --> 00:23:09.483
What was that like?
364
00:23:09.483 --> 00:23:12.570
Well, we enjoyed it, you know, you know how children are,
365
00:23:12.570 --> 00:23:14.310
they always had your space, you know,
366
00:23:14.310 --> 00:23:16.740
kids sat on one side of the church.
367
00:23:16.740 --> 00:23:20.070
And we were involved in different things
368
00:23:20.070 --> 00:23:24.450
and Sunday school
369
00:23:24.450 --> 00:23:29.450
and speaking, putting on programs.
370
00:23:33.803 --> 00:23:34.636
So.
371
00:23:34.636 --> 00:23:38.010
(phone rings)
I'll take this off. [INTERRUPTION]
372
00:23:38.010 --> 00:23:43.010
So was it like a social aspect of going to church as well?
373
00:23:43.825 --> 00:23:44.658
Yes. Yes.
374
00:23:46.058 --> 00:23:47.000
[Answering Machine Message] Hello,
375
00:23:47.000 --> 00:23:50.466
I'm not able to answer your call at this time.
376
00:23:50.466 --> 00:23:53.220
We, it was a group of us, you know,
377
00:23:53.220 --> 00:23:55.470
that always got together
378
00:23:55.470 --> 00:23:58.110
and would walk to church
379
00:23:58.110 --> 00:24:01.610
and you know, we enjoyed it. (Answering machine beeps).
380
00:24:10.505 --> 00:24:13.740
So do you remember any of like
381
00:24:13.740 --> 00:24:16.803
the signs of segregation in Norfolk?
382
00:24:18.210 --> 00:24:20.110
Yes, riding the bus
383
00:24:21.330 --> 00:24:25.230
where the Blacks had to sit in the back,
384
00:24:25.230 --> 00:24:26.523
the Whites in the front.
385
00:24:31.800 --> 00:24:35.970
How a White person could come up and ask you to move,
386
00:24:35.970 --> 00:24:38.020
to get up and let them have the seat and,
387
00:24:44.070 --> 00:24:46.890
take that phone off the hook for me, please.
388
00:24:46.890 --> 00:24:47.723
Thank you.
389
00:24:49.140 --> 00:24:50.910
And were there any other,
390
00:24:50.910 --> 00:24:53.650
like the bathrooms or bus stations
391
00:24:55.710 --> 00:24:57.952
where you had separate?
392
00:24:57.952 --> 00:25:00.780
Yes, there were.
393
00:25:00.780 --> 00:25:02.703
I know in the bus terminals.
394
00:25:07.860 --> 00:25:10.053
I never rode a train from Norfolk.
395
00:25:11.820 --> 00:25:16.440
I rode a boat and got on a train in Cape Charles,
396
00:25:16.440 --> 00:25:18.603
but I don't remember whether, you know.
397
00:25:21.210 --> 00:25:22.660
What boat would you get on?
398
00:25:27.570 --> 00:25:30.120
Well, I don't know what the boat was.
399
00:25:30.120 --> 00:25:34.590
It was a ferry would take you to Cape Charles
400
00:25:34.590 --> 00:25:36.720
when you were going north,
401
00:25:36.720 --> 00:25:39.030
you had to catch the boat from Norfolk,
402
00:25:39.030 --> 00:25:42.750
the ferry from Norfolk and- Kiptopeke Ferry.
403
00:25:42.750 --> 00:25:45.073
That's what it was, was called.
404
00:25:47.282 --> 00:25:49.157
(phone disconnected beeps)
405
00:25:49.157 --> 00:25:51.064
Oh gosh, that's going to be-
406
00:25:51.064 --> 00:25:53.970
That's okay, that's okay.
407
00:25:53.970 --> 00:25:55.220
It's going to be on there.
408
00:25:56.318 --> 00:25:59.107
(phone disconnected beeps)
409
00:25:59.107 --> 00:26:00.628
It'll stop.
Okay.
410
00:26:00.628 --> 00:26:04.211
(phone disconnected beeps)
411
00:26:06.610 --> 00:26:08.320
And I never experienced
412
00:26:10.770 --> 00:26:13.080
any segregation on the boat,
413
00:26:13.080 --> 00:26:15.880
I guess I was never
414
00:26:19.800 --> 00:26:21.570
had to go to the, you know, the restrooms
415
00:26:21.570 --> 00:26:22.759
or anything like that.
416
00:26:22.759 --> 00:26:26.342
(phone disconnected beeps)
417
00:26:37.500 --> 00:26:38.333
Did your grand,
418
00:26:38.333 --> 00:26:41.698
your grandmother was alive when you first moved in?
419
00:26:41.698 --> 00:26:42.531
Yes.
420
00:26:44.880 --> 00:26:48.193
Did she tell you any stories, like family stories?
421
00:26:49.468 --> 00:26:51.930
Mm, yes.
422
00:26:51.930 --> 00:26:54.420
They used to tell little things,
423
00:26:54.420 --> 00:26:57.237
but I don't remember it now.
424
00:26:57.237 --> 00:26:59.760
Did she tell you stories about slavery?
425
00:26:59.760 --> 00:27:00.593
Oh, no.
426
00:27:08.915 --> 00:27:11.377
What newspapers did you read?
427
00:27:11.377 --> 00:27:16.377
"The Virginian-Pilot" and "The Journal and Guide,"
428
00:27:19.110 --> 00:27:21.975
which was a Black newspaper.
429
00:27:25.507 --> 00:27:28.623
"The Pilot" wasn't Black. It was, it's White.
430
00:27:34.050 --> 00:27:37.320
And would the White paper include any like Black news
431
00:27:37.320 --> 00:27:40.973
or things that were going on in the Black community?
432
00:27:40.973 --> 00:27:43.806
I'm sure so, but I don't remember.
433
00:27:45.237 --> 00:27:46.830
But to find out about Black stuff,
434
00:27:46.830 --> 00:27:49.389
you mostly read "The Journal and Guide"?
435
00:27:49.389 --> 00:27:50.972
"The Guide," yes.
436
00:27:51.982 --> 00:27:54.565
I'm sure they, the White paper,
437
00:27:56.340 --> 00:27:58.683
printed Black news, probably.
438
00:28:02.010 --> 00:28:04.360
I guess all the bad things, I'm sure.
439
00:28:04.360 --> 00:28:05.193
(interviewer chuckles)
440
00:28:05.193 --> 00:28:06.026
Mm-hmm.
441
00:28:15.750 --> 00:28:16.780
Oh, health.
442
00:28:18.330 --> 00:28:21.060
Could you tell me a little bit about healthcare?
443
00:28:21.060 --> 00:28:21.893
Healthcare?
444
00:28:21.893 --> 00:28:23.310
Yeah, like would you go to,
445
00:28:23.310 --> 00:28:26.529
did you go to the hospital and have your children?
446
00:28:26.529 --> 00:28:27.946
Yes, I did, but
447
00:28:30.403 --> 00:28:33.419
I went to an all Black hospital.
448
00:28:33.419 --> 00:28:34.252
Okay.
449
00:28:39.218 --> 00:28:40.809
So most people when they had their children,
450
00:28:40.809 --> 00:28:42.930
they went to the hospital?
451
00:28:42.930 --> 00:28:44.640
Well, no, not most people.
452
00:28:44.640 --> 00:28:48.840
I mean, a lot of people, you know, went to hospital,
453
00:28:48.840 --> 00:28:53.057
but I know a lot of people that stayed home had midwives.
454
00:28:53.057 --> 00:28:54.157
Midwives.
Mm-hmm.
455
00:28:58.440 --> 00:29:00.770
But I guess I was just fortunate, you know,
456
00:29:00.770 --> 00:29:03.093
to have gone to the hospital.
457
00:29:04.980 --> 00:29:07.180
So most people couldn't necessarily afford
458
00:29:08.097 --> 00:29:09.660
to go to the hospital?
459
00:29:09.660 --> 00:29:11.760
Well, I think maybe during the time
460
00:29:11.760 --> 00:29:13.773
that I was having my children,
461
00:29:15.690 --> 00:29:19.973
I believe that most folks-
462
00:29:21.330 --> 00:29:24.453
Well, at least most I knew, you know, they had jobs.
463
00:29:26.730 --> 00:29:31.110
So, and at that time it was much,
464
00:29:31.110 --> 00:29:34.859
much cheaper to have a child then than it is now.
465
00:29:34.859 --> 00:29:38.052
'Cause I remember my first one, I paid 27.50.
466
00:29:38.052 --> 00:29:40.800
(laughs)
467
00:29:40.800 --> 00:29:41.967
That's good.
468
00:29:43.967 --> 00:29:45.389
You would like that, now?
469
00:29:45.389 --> 00:29:46.639
Yeah. Mm-hmm.
470
00:29:48.090 --> 00:29:49.323
Did you ever travel?
471
00:29:50.190 --> 00:29:55.170
Yes, we would travel mostly to Philadelphia.
472
00:29:55.170 --> 00:29:56.730
I had an aunt and uncle
473
00:29:56.730 --> 00:29:59.190
and that's where my grandmother eventually went
474
00:29:59.190 --> 00:30:00.813
to Philadelphia to live.
475
00:30:03.109 --> 00:30:04.473
I had cousins up there, so.
476
00:30:10.200 --> 00:30:13.500
What do you remember about traveling? Did you enjoy it?
477
00:30:13.500 --> 00:30:17.133
Yes, you know, you always enjoy being with family.
478
00:30:19.182 --> 00:30:21.753
Of course we had eventually, you know,
479
00:30:22.620 --> 00:30:23.820
had friends up there.
480
00:30:23.820 --> 00:30:27.453
I still communicate with, you know, a friend, there.
481
00:30:30.390 --> 00:30:32.280
Was Philadelphia, a lot different than Norfolk
482
00:30:32.280 --> 00:30:35.193
at the time or was it kind of the same?
483
00:30:38.622 --> 00:30:39.573
I think,
484
00:30:40.592 --> 00:30:43.150
I'm thinking that there was some difference
485
00:30:44.820 --> 00:30:47.073
and perhaps I did not notice, you know,
486
00:30:49.380 --> 00:30:53.020
the differences, but
487
00:30:54.570 --> 00:30:55.683
I really don't know.
488
00:31:00.810 --> 00:31:02.280
You go and visit, you know,
489
00:31:02.280 --> 00:31:06.690
you get out and go around to different places,
490
00:31:06.690 --> 00:31:10.800
shopping and to the stores and all,
491
00:31:10.800 --> 00:31:14.580
but I never noticed that much.
492
00:31:14.580 --> 00:31:18.040
But other than riding the buses myself, I never really
493
00:31:24.630 --> 00:31:29.043
felt a lot of segregation.
494
00:31:32.220 --> 00:31:35.463
Maybe I didn't go to the places, you know, but you know.
495
00:31:36.630 --> 00:31:39.930
So you could kind of avoid like the insults.
496
00:31:39.930 --> 00:31:43.110
Mm-hmm, well no, I never, you know,
497
00:31:43.110 --> 00:31:44.673
experienced anything like that.
498
00:31:45.630 --> 00:31:49.167
And I don't think it was because I avoided to, you know,
499
00:31:49.167 --> 00:31:52.833
but I just never experienced anything like that.
500
00:31:53.820 --> 00:31:56.760
There was like a Black community
501
00:31:56.760 --> 00:31:58.500
large enough that you didn't have to-
502
00:31:58.500 --> 00:32:00.243
Well, yes, that's true.
503
00:32:03.420 --> 00:32:06.480
And then too, in the later years when I did start shopping,
504
00:32:06.480 --> 00:32:09.540
you know, on Granby Street and wherever,
505
00:32:09.540 --> 00:32:11.470
I still didn't experience any
506
00:32:14.310 --> 00:32:16.593
major segregations, you know.
507
00:32:20.430 --> 00:32:23.180
Do you think that was because Norfolk was more urban?
508
00:32:24.540 --> 00:32:25.500
It might have been.
509
00:32:25.500 --> 00:32:27.773
And then too, you know, there's a lot
510
00:32:27.773 --> 00:32:31.350
of servicemen in this area, you know,
511
00:32:31.350 --> 00:32:32.943
especially Navy men, you know.
512
00:32:39.690 --> 00:32:41.313
How would that have affected?
513
00:32:45.120 --> 00:32:46.170
I don't know.
514
00:32:46.170 --> 00:32:50.163
I imagine because I just have seen, you know-
515
00:32:51.990 --> 00:32:55.290
Now I've heard of, you know,
516
00:32:55.290 --> 00:32:58.380
segregation among the servicemen,
517
00:32:58.380 --> 00:33:02.280
but I used to see the Black and the Whites together,
518
00:33:02.280 --> 00:33:05.343
you know, in the early years, so.
519
00:33:07.680 --> 00:33:09.030
And that was kind of normal
520
00:33:09.030 --> 00:33:11.493
because it was a mix of people in the area.
521
00:33:11.493 --> 00:33:14.553
Yes, and then too, they were, you can push that.
522
00:33:15.810 --> 00:33:19.200
They were, I imagine because they were servicemen
523
00:33:19.200 --> 00:33:22.530
and I guess stationed together
524
00:33:22.530 --> 00:33:24.183
and had become friends, you know?
525
00:33:32.187 --> 00:33:33.020
Okay.
526
00:33:34.702 --> 00:33:35.747
Where would you take your children
527
00:33:35.747 --> 00:33:38.250
'cause you lived in like an urban area.
528
00:33:38.250 --> 00:33:39.330
Were there parks where you-
529
00:33:39.330 --> 00:33:44.330
Yes, there was a city park
530
00:33:45.030 --> 00:33:47.250
which was segregated
531
00:33:47.250 --> 00:33:51.820
and then there was a park in Huntersville
532
00:33:52.950 --> 00:33:57.950
that it was a nice park that the kids always used.
533
00:33:59.280 --> 00:34:00.209
And that was an all Black park?
534
00:34:00.209 --> 00:34:01.376
Yes, it was.
535
00:34:03.690 --> 00:34:06.030
How was the other park segregated?
536
00:34:06.030 --> 00:34:10.950
Well, how?
537
00:34:10.950 --> 00:34:12.393
They had, I guess they.
538
00:34:16.890 --> 00:34:18.840
Did they, they have dividers,
539
00:34:18.840 --> 00:34:20.950
are there certain areas you weren't supposed to go?
540
00:34:20.950 --> 00:34:23.937
No, I don't, I never experienced anything like that.
541
00:34:23.937 --> 00:34:24.770
Oh, okay.
542
00:34:24.770 --> 00:34:26.100
Because they, the city park, you know,
543
00:34:26.100 --> 00:34:29.220
you had the animals and all different things like that
544
00:34:29.220 --> 00:34:30.750
looked over.
545
00:34:30.750 --> 00:34:31.983
I could be, you know.
546
00:34:36.090 --> 00:34:39.170
Just seems strange they would try to segregate a park.
547
00:34:42.720 --> 00:34:44.250
Maybe you just felt that way.
548
00:34:44.250 --> 00:34:49.178
You know, knowing how, how the area was.
549
00:34:49.178 --> 00:34:51.570
Children weren't, White and Black children couldn't play.
550
00:34:51.570 --> 00:34:54.000
Oh, well they didn't, you know,
551
00:34:54.000 --> 00:34:57.540
I guess unless the schools carry, of course at that time,
552
00:34:57.540 --> 00:35:01.099
the say, you know, schools weren't integrated.
553
00:35:01.099 --> 00:35:02.583
Mm-hmm.
554
00:35:03.750 --> 00:35:07.050
But I know the schools would carry the kids, you know,
555
00:35:07.050 --> 00:35:08.193
out to city park.
556
00:35:10.922 --> 00:35:14.550
And of course my kids, you know, I took them to the beach.
557
00:35:14.550 --> 00:35:19.290
We had a couple of Black beaches in the area,
558
00:35:19.290 --> 00:35:22.293
City Beach and Seaview Beach.
559
00:35:24.295 --> 00:35:28.020
There was a Buckroe Beach over in Newport News
560
00:35:28.020 --> 00:35:29.735
or Hampton one, I don't know which,
561
00:35:29.735 --> 00:35:32.068
Newport News, I think it is.
562
00:35:37.816 --> 00:35:38.649
I don't know.
563
00:35:39.537 --> 00:35:42.150
You know, churches used to,
564
00:35:42.150 --> 00:35:45.960
especially in the summertime after vacation Bible school,
565
00:35:45.960 --> 00:35:49.680
they always had a big day at the beach.
566
00:35:49.680 --> 00:35:53.733
So that was something that kids always look forward to.
567
00:36:01.680 --> 00:36:03.243
So did you enjoy this time?
568
00:36:04.140 --> 00:36:05.537
Yes, I did.
569
00:36:08.383 --> 00:36:12.270
I guess we were poor folks,
570
00:36:12.270 --> 00:36:13.860
but we didn't know we were poor,
571
00:36:13.860 --> 00:36:18.787
you know, and I think the neighborhood was,
572
00:36:19.860 --> 00:36:23.913
was closer then, you know, than it is now.
573
00:36:28.200 --> 00:36:30.810
You had a lot of friends in your area?
574
00:36:30.810 --> 00:36:34.590
Oh, well, yes, you know, nice neighbors.
575
00:36:34.590 --> 00:36:39.590
And of course you could tell a neighbor's child
576
00:36:39.900 --> 00:36:43.260
to behave or a neighbor could tell your child to behave
577
00:36:43.260 --> 00:36:48.260
and you know, they would, he would see the difference.
578
00:36:54.483 --> 00:36:55.316
Okay.