Ferdie Miller Walker: —cook and clean, to teach you how to carry bed pans and scrub floors and wait on folks. So I think she really was hoping all the time that I would change my mind and not want to be a nurse, because she really did not feel that nursing was much of anything to do because she had already done that. But I did. Paul Ortiz: What led you to that decision, wanting to be a nurse? Ferdie Miller Walker: Well, my mom was a nurse. And I had been going with her as she did public health nursing and public school nursing all of my life. When there was nobody at home for me to go home from school and have somebody there, there was usually somebody there until my aunt died, and when there was nobody there, then I was in the back of the car with Mother and I made home visits with her. Ferdie Miller Walker: I was with her when she nailed quarantine signs on people's houses because there was a contagious disease in the community, and it was just something that I wanted to do. And she did not deter me, but she really did try hard. So Fisk and Meharry had a five-year program where you'd go and do your basic sciences and so forth. For the first two years at Fisk. Then you'd go to Meharry for three years to complete all of your other sciences. So I went to school and you graduate with a BS degree in nursing. So that fed into my desire to go to Fisk and continue on at Meharry. Ferdie Miller Walker: It was never just to go to Fisk and plan to be there for four years and get a degree in something. Fisk was my way to get to nursing and a degree, and that's what it was for me. And I was really too young to go. I know I was 15 when I went to Fisk. And my mother and I really did have a hard time with that because she told me that she wouldn't to let me go. And I told her if she didn't let me go to Fisk then, I wasn't ever going anywhere. And she really did believe me. She really thought I meant it. And I really did mean it because that was all I wanted to be. I just wanted to be a nurse. That was all. So when she realized that if I went at 15, I would be at least 20 when I got out. Then I got to go to Fisk. But I really did. I grew up wanting to be a nurse. Ferdie Miller Walker: I had taken care of an aunt who lived with us, and she and I were just really very close, who was sick and she had diabetes, and I just did a lot of things for her through a lot of bad spells that she had. She had to take insulin and I could help her with that. And then one time she had a real bad problem with sores and things. And so I just really felt like that was what I wanted to do. I wanted to be a nurse. And this was my way to get there and still remain friends with my mother. So it was just okay. And my dad was just the greatest kind of guy who never raised up and raised his voice at anybody or anything unless you crossed him. He was very agreeable and he just sat me down. He said, "Well, now Freddy Luis, are you sure that's what you want to do?" And I convinced him that I did. And so he said, "Well, Abby, we better let her go ahead and do it." And so that's really how I got there. Paul Ortiz: So you started at Fisk around 1943? Ferdie Miller Walker: 1944. Paul Ortiz: '44. Ferdie Miller Walker: 1944. Paul Ortiz: What was social life like at Fisk? Ferdie Miller Walker: Oh, it was wonderful. See, I really didn't have a whole bunch of free social life at home. It was a date occasionally, and I didn't date very early. And the date was to leave home and be back at the time set when I was at home. Well, when I got to Fisk, boy, we could just swarm around there. Archie Lee Walker: And there you pick up on that word swarm? Ferdie Miller Walker: Yeah, we did. We swarm. There were all these boys from all over the world that I'd never seen and stay out until 10:30 every night. Every night you could stay out until 10:30 and you could go to the canteen, you could smoke. I hadn't been at Fisk for two weeks before I learned to smoke because that's what I learned to do. The first day I got there. Brought me back to cigarettes and started smoking. Because that was a grownup thing to do. But it was really freedom for me. There was nobody looking over my shoulder to see what I was doing. We could go to the canteen, we could dance. It was just really wonderful. It was a coming out party and I just came right on out. Met a lot of really neat people from all over the United States. Learned how to tell really big lies about the oil wells in my backyard. Archie Lee Walker: The joke behind that is when we were growing up and you'd go to other parts of the world, as soon as you say you're from Texas, everybody thought you owned an oil well. Ferdie Miller Walker: Yeah. And I just fed into it. But I really, really meet some nice people. Really nice people, nice friends that I still have and still enjoy very much. And the dating thing was great. And knowing people from different sections of the United States and being friendly with them. And then going to Meharry. My class at Meharry was the first class after the Cadet Nurse Corps. Are you familiar with Cadet Nurse Corps? The Army established in many schools of nursing what they called a Cadet Nurse Corps. And they paid these girls, the nursing students to go to school. Ferdie Miller Walker: It was like being a part of the Army Specialized Training Corps only it was for nurses. And ours was the first class after that, which meant that we had to pay our own way for everything. And we felt like we were overcharged at Meharry. So then we just kind of took advantage of that. There were only 13 of us anyway, and every time we sat out, we had a class meeting and we decided when they let the aides and the maids wear our uniforms that we'd go on strike. But we were too ethical to really strike, so we just took off our uniforms and wore print dresses and caps to work. And that was our strike. Archie Lee Walker: That was your protest. Ferdie Miller Walker: That was our protest. And we chose to do it just before the joint commission or Hospital accreditation was coming. We were not dumb. We were not dumb. So this was kind of the activist thing that we chose to do because the school was doing nothing to keep everybody from taking our things. And we had to pay, where the other girls were being paid to be there. We had to pay full freight. And so we just said, "Well, we'll get you. But being away and in college at Fisk and at Meharry was kind of a coming out for me because I'd never had that much independence in my whole life. I'd never been able to make those kinds of big decisions for myself. I'd always been kind of told what to do by my mom and my family and all, but then when I was away from them, then I was able to make some decisions on own. It was really wonderful for me. Paul Ortiz: Now, how did you meet Mr. Walker? Ferdie Miller Walker: It was tough. We had both graduated from college and I was a single woman at home being chased by any number of guys. And having to jump over the couch to get away from some of them. And when he said, "Well, why don't we go out?" I said, "Listen, I'm not jumping over any more couches. I'm tired of jumping over couches. Now, if you want to sit down and talk, okay, but don't be trying to get me in the bed." So I guess he said, this is a crazy girl. And so I just— [indistinct 00:10:25]. Archie Lee Walker: You didn't tell him what I said. She won't tell you that, see. I said, "I'll make a deal with you. You don't try to marry me and I won't try to get you in bed." And she agreed. And we had a ball. I was so tired of feeling like being backed in a corner, some gal trying to get me to the altar for some five years. I was up to here. Why can't we just go out and have a drink and dance and I'd take you home and I'd go home? Couldn't find anybody like that. Ferdie Miller Walker: But we did not know each other. We didn't date at all when we were growing up, even though we only lived—At one time, we only lived about four or five blocks apart. But we just— Archie Lee Walker: Went to the same high school. Ferdie Miller Walker: And went to the same junior high school. But may have known your name. Archie Lee Walker: Yeah. Well, I knew your name. Ferdie Miller Walker: But we just didn't travel around. Archie Lee Walker: Just didn't travel in the same circles. Ferdie Miller Walker: So. Paul Ortiz: Well, Mr. and Mrs. Walker, I know I've taken up entirely too much of your time. You did come here for— Ferdie Miller Walker: I was going to tell you that this one thing that really sticks in my mind, and I talked to Archie about it for a very long time, so. One really harassing kind of thing that I went through. And at that time I was 11 years old and I will never forget it. I used to go back and forth to church on Sunday afternoon to the United Methodist Youth Group and always rode the bus. And I had to stand on the corner, which was about two blocks from my house to catch the bus. And the policemen—And in those days, all police people were White and all bus drivers were White. Archie Lee Walker: All city employees were White. Ferdie Miller Walker: Yeah, all city employees. And these policemen would harass me as I was standing on this corner waiting for the bus to come. And sometimes the two of them would drive up. The bus stop was up high and the street was down and they'd drive up under there and then they'd exposed themselves. Paul Ortiz: The policemen? Ferdie Miller Walker: Yes, while I was standing. And it just really scared me to death. And the only reason I did not go home at that time was because if I'd gone home, my mother would've made me stay. So I just stepped back from the corner. And because I rode that way all the time, the bus driver could see me standing there in the corner. He'd always stop and I'd get on the bus, but it was these same cops. So I had a morbid fear of policemen all of my life. And it has not completely gone away yet. Archie Lee Walker: Yeah. Because that's pretty common. Ferdie Miller Walker: And this was in the broad open day light with the sun shining and everything. But I will never forget it, and it always comes back to me every time I get into a really— Archie Lee Walker: Now that's one of the things— Ferdie Miller Walker: —bad experience. That was really bad and it was bad for all Black girls. Archie Lee Walker: That's one of the things that parents pass on to their children, fear and hate of the police. If you look at the Black kids today, even the little ones— Ferdie Miller Walker: I try not to. Archie Lee Walker: —they are scared to death of policemen. Ferdie Miller Walker: Many are. Archie Lee Walker: And it's beginning to let up a little bit. The police are trying to erase that, but it's generations and generations and generations of fear. Ferdie Miller Walker: They're saying that you need to be aware of the—Helping people in your community. But it was really hard for me to tell my children that these were helping people. Really hard. And I really prayed a lot over that. And I said, "Well, this is something that you've got to do." I had a job as a public health nurse in Topeka, Kansas, and we had a lot of child abuse even then. And that was in the—'57. Ferdie Miller Walker: My supervisor said to me, she gave me a situation. She said, "Now when you go to a house and somebody is—A man is beating his wife, now what are you going to do?" I said, "Call the minister." And she said, "Freddy, you're an intelligent person. You know that's not right." I told her, she's a wonderful person. I said, "Alice Jensen, I know that's not the right answer. I should call the police, but I don't believe in the police." And that was after my third child was born. So it's taken a long time for me to have any kind of trust in the police, in this group, even though I tried to say to myself, it's one person and everybody is not like everybody else, but it's really very difficult for me. Archie Lee Walker: What kind of paperwork you got? Ferdie Miller Walker: And that has stayed with me. What honey? Archie Lee Walker: I'm just asking what kind of paperwork you got there? Paul Ortiz: Oh this is—These here are interview agreements, and as I told you, a copy of this material will be deposited here at the archives. And this basically gives us permission to deposit it and for students and scholars to listen to the tape and to use the material. And let's see. Okay, you would sign here. And I sign over here. Ferdie Miller Walker: Okay. Paul Ortiz: And this paperwork, perhaps you could just leave this paperwork maybe at the desk and on your way out. This is just general kind of biographical information. Archie Lee Walker: Oh, okay. Ferdie Miller Walker: Will we ever know or get to read or see any of this information? Paul Ortiz: Well, I'm sure— Ferdie Miller Walker: Do I need print this? Paul Ortiz: If you could print it on the top line and then just on here and then just sign it here. Ferdie Miller Walker: Okay. Paul Ortiz: Yeah. I'm sure that the next time you come back to the school, that you will be in the archives. Ferdie Miller Walker: How will we know it? By what name? Paul Ortiz: Well, there will be a file. Now we have manila folders and it will be in one location and it will have your name on the outside of it. And at that point there should be an index. Ferdie Miller Walker: This would be nice to be able to give this to my children because I probably have told you more than I told them about some things. Paul Ortiz: Well, I'll give you the name of the archivist. And so maybe the next time you come over here, you can maybe give him an advanced call and that he could arrange something to where you could ask him.