George Jefferson Thomas, Jr.: When I was put out of school, there were a lot of girls up there whose parents, I'm sure, just send them to the school. Just say, "Now I want you to go up there and I want you to marry a doctor or a minister or a lawyer." You know? Kate Ellis: Mm-hmm. George Jefferson Thomas, Jr.: So we didn't have any problems. And I had friends, and they said, "We'll help you out to go to school." I said, "Listen, I don't mind going out, spending your money to have a good time, but I don't want you to be invested." Because I didn't want nobody waiting at me when I got my degree, saying now I owe you this. Kate Ellis: So you didn't want anybody to give you money for school? George Jefferson Thomas, Jr.: That's right. So I would not accept that, and I thought my people would promise me, but when I wrote them, they didn't even accept, but one sister in Chicago. She used to send me enough to eat with. Finally. Kate Ellis: I see. So your friends, you wouldn't let them give you money, but you would have let your family members, but they didn't— George Jefferson Thomas, Jr.: That's right. Because I figured that they didn't have any designs on me. You know? Kate Ellis: Mm-hmm. George Jefferson Thomas, Jr.: So the chemistry guy that was in charge of chemistry, he gave me a job working in the lab after school. And this guy that was a little BN/GYN, he gave me a job operating on rabbits, because at that time, to tell whether a woman was pregnant or not, you had to open up the abdomen and look at the ovaries— Kate Ellis: Wow. George Jefferson Thomas, Jr.: —to see if there was follicular cysts being formed. If they were ripe or not. So that's the way I got into med school. George Jefferson Thomas, Jr.: I guess this is interesting about my life, I never done anything great in it, but I've always been around people who have been great and who have done great things. One of the guys in my class in college, became president of the university. And this guy, this was an ambassador to the United Nations. Andrew Young, he was in the United Nations, he was a good friend of mine. His father and I, we were very good friends. We were singing in the same group together. Kate Ellis: What group was that? George Jefferson Thomas, Jr.: The Osceola 5. That was a group that this director of the music of the church was in charge of. And this—One of the guys that I finished college with, was—Well, several of them became very prominent physicians. One of them is the head of—One of the greatest honors bestowed on him, is at internal medicine. He's at Howard. He's not on the teaching. He's retired, but he still takes great interest in it. And then one was in OB/GYN, was in—this first one was in that too. So I've always been around great people, and like I said, now I'm in this Boulé with all these people that's running the city and running these universities and things. So I said, at least I've had the opportunity of being around them. Even though I didn't get— Kate Ellis: It sounds awfully humble to me. George Jefferson Thomas, Jr.: Uh-huh. Kate Ellis: What is—Boulé is B-U— George Jefferson Thomas, Jr.: B-O-U-L-E. Kate Ellis: Okay. George Jefferson Thomas, Jr.: I think I have one of the books up in there. I'm not—I want to show you one of the guys that's in there. Kate Ellis: Do I need to unhook you? George Jefferson Thomas, Jr.: No, not necessarily. I guess I can reach over there. Kate Ellis: All right. George Jefferson Thomas, Jr.: He's a federal judge. No, he's not a federal judge, but the guy is in there that's a federal judge. But he is a state supreme court judge. He is the—The other guy that died recently was the joint administrator officer of the city. So I just said, been around so many greats. But— Kate Ellis: I see, Sigma Pi Phi Fraternity. George Jefferson Thomas, Jr.: I have some very talented people in my family. My brother, who died last year was a—a year or two ago, was very talented. And I had in a sister in Chicago who is— Kate Ellis: What did they do? George Jefferson Thomas, Jr.: I told you, he was a commission— Kate Ellis: Oh, right. George Jefferson Thomas, Jr.: Deputy commissioner. Kate Ellis: Uh-huh. Your sister was— George Jefferson Thomas, Jr.: But he was—He's also an excellent musician too. He did a lot of playing piano. Kate Ellis: Do you play piano? George Jefferson Thomas, Jr.: To my own amazement, but I wouldn't get out and try to play for anybody else. Kate Ellis: Uh-huh. George Jefferson Thomas, Jr.: But this is the guy. This Tee Keys. He's chairman of the— Kate Ellis: Which is— George Jefferson Thomas, Jr.: This one. Kate Ellis: Uh-huh. Chairman of Social Services. George Jefferson Thomas, Jr.: But I'm going to show you—I would want to show you his resume. It's in here somewhere, if not, it's in that book. Yeah, here it is. But it's just an example of the kind of people that I was telling you about. Kate Ellis: Mm-hmm. George Jefferson Thomas, Jr.: Candidates for—He's a candidate. He was trying to get me to go up there, but I can't make it. Yeah, this would more or less—describes his activities there. But that's the kind of people that have been— Kate Ellis: That were in this. George Jefferson Thomas, Jr.: Yeah. Norman Francis is President of Xavier. That's a big university out there. They accept more— Kate Ellis: And this is the first African American elected to the Supreme Court of Louisiana. George Jefferson Thomas, Jr.: Sam Cook is the president of Dillard. Kate Ellis: Mm-hmm. George Jefferson Thomas, Jr.: Roshawn, the president of the dart board team, vice president of the dart. Kate Ellis: So you're inducted into this Boulé [indistinct 00:05:44]— George Jefferson Thomas, Jr.: I'm the senior member in there now. Kate Ellis: Are you? Really? George Jefferson Thomas, Jr.: I've been in there more than anybody. And I don't know how I got in there, because I got in there a year—not too many years after I came in here. Kate Ellis: You mean into New Orleans? George Jefferson Thomas, Jr.: Yeah. Kate Ellis: Uh-huh. We should probably move to these—your family history soon. George Jefferson Thomas, Jr.: Mm-hmm. Kate Ellis: I want to ask you, before we move actually, on to these questions here on these forms. George Jefferson Thomas, Jr.: Mm-hmm. Kate Ellis: You mentioned that most of them, really well educated. George Jefferson Thomas, Jr.: Mm-hmm. Kate Ellis: Where are they educated? Why—What do you know about your family background? Your ancestors and what your—What father's [indistinct 00:06:27]— George Jefferson Thomas, Jr.: I can give you it. Kate Ellis: Yeah. George Jefferson Thomas, Jr.: I have a paper out there with all that on there, if you want me to get it. Kate Ellis: Do you? Yeah, I'd love to see it. George Jefferson Thomas, Jr.: All right. Kate Ellis: Is this [indistinct 00:06:39]? George Jefferson Thomas, Jr.: Medical Associates. Kate Ellis: What street is this on? George Jefferson Thomas, Jr.: That's Freret and Louisiana. Kate Ellis: What and Louisi—Oh, Freret and Louisiana. George Jefferson Thomas, Jr.: And this is a picture of the club that I was telling you about, where we used to dance once a year. Kate Ellis: Will you tell me the name of that one again? George Jefferson Thomas, Jr.: The Beau Brummell's. Kate Ellis: Beau Brummell's. George Jefferson Thomas, Jr.: Mm-hmm. This is the inside of the building. Kate Ellis: Of the Medical Associates? George Jefferson Thomas, Jr.: Mm-hmm. That's the picture of— Kate Ellis: Do you also have photographs of when you were growing up? George Jefferson Thomas, Jr.: I doubt it. I might have one somewhere, but I doubt it. Kate Ellis: I was about to say, around the time that you were in the war or at Howard, or when you got [indistinct 00:07:37]— George Jefferson Thomas, Jr.: I'm pretty sure I have some of that. But they're probably in the room in there, in that room in the den. Kate Ellis: Uh-huh. George Jefferson Thomas, Jr.: And see, this was Flint-Goodridge Hospital. That's the hospital that I was talking to you about. Kate Ellis: Right. Which I passed by that. No, there's a housing project right by that. George Jefferson Thomas, Jr.: Yeah. They made a nursing home—Not a nursing home, but a home for senior citizens, out of it. George Jefferson Thomas, Jr.: This is my wife and some of her family. Kate Ellis: Uh-huh. George Jefferson Thomas, Jr.: That's in Atlanta, there. And grandkids. Kate Ellis: I would love to get—to photocopy all photographs. Well not photocopy— Kate Ellis: Okay. The first question is, what is your zip code? George Jefferson Thomas, Jr.: 70122. Kate Ellis: Tell me—I remember you said 1916, I don't remember the actual date of your birth. George Jefferson Thomas, Jr.: 1916. Kate Ellis: I know, but what year? Not what year, what month and day? George Jefferson Thomas, Jr.: September the 24th. Kate Ellis: Tell me the town you grew up in again? George Jefferson Thomas, Jr.: Fitzgerald. Kate Ellis: Fitzgerald. George Jefferson Thomas, Jr.: Mm-hmm. Kate Ellis: Okay. And I'm going to list your principal occupation as? George Jefferson Thomas, Jr.: Physician of surgeons. I was a urologist during my active days. Kate Ellis: Mm-hmm. Kate Ellis: It's George— George Jefferson Thomas, Jr.: Yes. Kate Ellis: —Jefferson Thomas— George Jefferson Thomas, Jr.: Junior. Kate Ellis: —Junior? George Jefferson Thomas, Jr.: That's right. Kate Ellis: How would you like your name to appear in written materials? George Jefferson Thomas, Jr.: I don't have a preference. Kate Ellis: I'm kind to say, "Dr. George Jefferson Thomas, Jr." George Jefferson Thomas, Jr.: That's all right. Kate Ellis: What's your wife's name? George Jefferson Thomas, Jr.: Thelma. Kate Ellis: Thelma? George Jefferson Thomas, Jr.: Thelma Evangeline. Kate Ellis: Thelma Evangeline? George Jefferson Thomas, Jr.: Yes. Kate Ellis: What was her date of birth? George Jefferson Thomas, Jr.: I think it's September the 22nd, 1922. Kate Ellis: '22. George Jefferson Thomas, Jr.: Mm-hmm. Kate Ellis: Where was she born? George Jefferson Thomas, Jr.: In Gadsden, South Carolina. Kate Ellis: Gadsden? George Jefferson Thomas, Jr.: Yes. Uh-huh. Kate Ellis: G-A-D-S-D-E-N? George Jefferson Thomas, Jr.: I'm pretty sure that's it. Kate Ellis: You said South Carolina, right? George Jefferson Thomas, Jr.: Yes. Uh-huh. Kate Ellis: All right. And did she—What was her occupation? George Jefferson Thomas, Jr.: Housewife. Kate Ellis: What was your mother's name? George Jefferson Thomas, Jr.: Winnie Cornelia Whittaker, before she married. Kate Ellis: Her maiden name was Whittaker? George Jefferson Thomas, Jr.: Yes. Uh-huh. Kate Ellis: W-H-I-T-T-A-K-E-R? George Jefferson Thomas, Jr.: I'm not sure about that. It's either W-H-I-T— Kate Ellis: Oh, it's on that thing right there. George Jefferson Thomas, Jr.: —or W-H-I-T-T. I don't know which. Kate Ellis: Okay. Would you tell me, was it Winnie? George Jefferson Thomas, Jr.: Yes. Uh-huh. Winnie Cornelia. Kate Ellis: What was that middle one? George Jefferson Thomas, Jr.: Cornelia, C-O-R-N-E-L-I-A. Kate Ellis: Cornelia. George Jefferson Thomas, Jr.: Mm-hmm. Kate Ellis: When was she born? George Jefferson Thomas, Jr.: When was my mother born? Kate Ellis: Yeah. But I asked you that. George Jefferson Thomas, Jr.: It's in that thing there. Kate Ellis: Okay. George Jefferson Thomas, Jr.: But I really don't remember. Kate Ellis: Okay. One second. I'm wondering, did I not—I'm seeing a—am I looking at a—This right here, does that say, "Vinie"? George Jefferson Thomas, Jr.: It should be Winnie, but it says Vinie. Kate Ellis: Okay. But it should be Winnie? George Jefferson Thomas, Jr.: I'm not sure about that, I— Kate Ellis: That looks like a V-I-N-I-E. George Jefferson Thomas, Jr.: I believe that's what it is. Kate Ellis: So I'm spelling her name wrong on this stuff. George Jefferson Thomas, Jr.: Well, no. Her name is Winnie. I know her name is Winnie. Kate Ellis: Okay. Actually, that was her father's mother. George Jefferson Thomas, Jr.: Mm-hmm. I know her name was Winnie. Kate Ellis: Okay. And she was November 11th— George Jefferson Thomas, Jr.: November 11, 1911. She was born 11th day of the 11th hour. Kate Ellis: No, wait. 1883. Wait a second. Winnie Cornelia, November 11, 1883. So this is weird. This says, "to June 28, 1911." George Jefferson Thomas, Jr.: June the 20th? That's what it says on there? Kate Ellis: Look at. Tell me—Explain what this is about, what she's doing here. It says here, "Winnie Cornelia Whittaker," which is your mother— George Jefferson Thomas, Jr.: Uh-huh. Kate Ellis: —November 11, 1883. George Jefferson Thomas, Jr.: Uh-huh. Kate Ellis: And then there's this dash. Oh, maybe that's when she got married. Did she get married in June, 28th June '11, to George? That makes sense. Thomas. Okay. Okay. George Jefferson Thomas, Jr.: That must be. Kate Ellis: Okay. George Jefferson Thomas, Jr.: Because I know— Kate Ellis: Otherwise that would—Okay. George Jefferson Thomas, Jr.: —I know she was born— Kate Ellis: When did she pass away? Was that— George Jefferson Thomas, Jr.: I'm not sure. I think that was around 1967, but I'm not positive about that. Kate Ellis: All right. Well I'll say, "around 1967." I didn't ask you something about this. It says here, "These families were greatly mixed by marriage," does she mean racially mixed? What does she mean by "mixed"? George Jefferson Thomas, Jr.: I imagine that's what she meant, but I'm not sure. But I don't know of any interracial marriages at that time. Now it's been plenty since then. Kate Ellis: There were plenty since your time, interracial marriages in your family? George Jefferson Thomas, Jr.: Well in my immediate family, you mean my children? Not—My daughter is married to an Iranian, and my grandson is married to a White girl. Kate Ellis: Uh-huh. I wonder what she meant by "greatly mixed by marriage". George Jefferson Thomas, Jr.: Now she could—if she meant Indians. Now she may mean Indians. There are a lot of Indians in that country, I know. Kate Ellis: Uh-huh. George Jefferson Thomas, Jr.: So maybe that's what she meant. I'm not sure. Kate Ellis: Okay. George Jefferson Thomas, Jr.: And it could have been—She could have been talking about the ancestors, because my grandmother was White. I mean, my grandmother's father was White. Kate Ellis: Oh, really? George Jefferson Thomas, Jr.: And her—My grandmother's father was the—I mean, her mother was Black. I think that's the way it was. Kate Ellis: What? That's weird. George Jefferson Thomas, Jr.: But I know my grandmother looked like she was pure White, but she— Kate Ellis: Your grandmother did? You said her father was White and your grandmother looked like she was White? George Jefferson Thomas, Jr.: Her father was White. Kate Ellis: Okay. George Jefferson Thomas, Jr.: And one of them was Black, so the other one must have been Black, or whatever it was. Kate Ellis: Right. But the point is, your grandmother also looked like she was— George Jefferson Thomas, Jr.: Oh, yeah. She looked like—She had gray eyes and white hair, and all that kind of stuff. Kate Ellis: You don't have any pictures of her? George Jefferson Thomas, Jr.: I don't think so. I may have them, but where at to look for them, I— Kate Ellis: Maybe Mrs. Thomas would know. George Jefferson Thomas, Jr.: I can ask her. Kate Ellis: All right. George Jefferson Thomas, Jr.: But this is a picture of the original group in that— Kate Ellis: Oh, yeah. Now this was in the early '60s. George Jefferson Thomas, Jr.: Mm-hmm. This is another picture of the building there. Kate Ellis: Mm-hmm. All right. George Jefferson Thomas, Jr.: And this is— Kate Ellis: You had a wide mustache. George Jefferson Thomas, Jr.: —This is a picture of one of the functions over there at the place. Kate Ellis: What place? Your country club? George Jefferson Thomas, Jr.: Yeah. Kate Ellis: That spread looks incredible. George Jefferson Thomas, Jr.: Mm-hmm. Now my mother and my father died about three or four days apart. That was in 1963. Kate Ellis: Oh, look. Then I can write it from this. George Jefferson Thomas, Jr.: Mm-hmm. Kate Ellis: Jay Tanner Stanley. That's not the man that married— George Jefferson Thomas, Jr.: Bea— Kate Ellis: It is. George Jefferson Thomas, Jr.: Bea Perry. Kate Ellis: Is it? Yeah. George Jefferson Thomas, Jr.: Yeah. Kate Ellis: Okay. George Jefferson Thomas, Jr.: But he's divorced, and he married Andrew Young's— Kate Ellis: Daughter? George Jefferson Thomas, Jr.: Uh-huh. Kate Ellis: Is that? Yeah. George Jefferson Thomas, Jr.: This is that same picture of my son and his family. And this was a picture of us, shortly after we came down here, at one of the cocktail parties. Kate Ellis: Can I photo—I want a copy of this. This was—When you say shortly after, this means—Oh, it says right here, "Week of January 25, 1958." George Jefferson Thomas, Jr.: Mm-hmm. Kate Ellis: Well you said shortly after you come down here, but you came down here in the '40s. George Jefferson Thomas, Jr.: '46. Kate Ellis: So when you say shortly after you came down here— George Jefferson Thomas, Jr.: I guess I was wrong then. But this is a picture that was taken back there in the back, at one of the reunions we had down there. Kate Ellis: Back of what? George Jefferson Thomas, Jr.: Back of the house. Kate Ellis: Okay. George Jefferson Thomas, Jr.: Backyard. Kate Ellis: That's [indistinct 00:19:13]. George Jefferson Thomas, Jr.: This is the—That's just a picture of the church. Kate Ellis: But what is—When is this? George Jefferson Thomas, Jr.: You know I don't remember. I can't remember, but it must have been a mighty long time ago. I had hair on my head, so you know. Kate Ellis: So you know that was a while ago. George Jefferson Thomas, Jr.: And this is a picture of the Beau Brummell club. Kate Ellis: Oh. Will you spell that for me? George Jefferson Thomas, Jr.: B-E-A-U, beau. Kate Ellis: B-E-A-U? George Jefferson Thomas, Jr.: BRUMMELL. Kate Ellis: Beau, Beau Brummell. George Jefferson Thomas, Jr.: Now you know that was taken a long time ago. Kate Ellis: This was your car? Okay. George Jefferson Thomas, Jr.: This when I first came down here. Kate Ellis: But say now, you keep saying when you first came down here, but—So this was the Ford. Did you have kids when you came down here? George Jefferson Thomas, Jr.: Yeah. I said I had two. Kate Ellis: When were your—Well, I'll ask this— George Jefferson Thomas, Jr.: Three, really. Kate Ellis: Yeah. Okay. That's right. One on the way. George Jefferson Thomas, Jr.: That's a picture of my father and of the church that he was— Kate Ellis: Uh-huh. George Jefferson Thomas, Jr.: Now don't ask me when that was taken. Kate Ellis: But that was more recent. For how long did you sport a mustache? George Jefferson Thomas, Jr.: Until I got hurt, I guess. Kate Ellis: Really? George Jefferson Thomas, Jr.: Uh-huh. Kate Ellis: Then what, you couldn't keep up with it? George Jefferson Thomas, Jr.: That's my brother that died two years ago, in the middle. But this, I saved this check, just to show you how they waste money in the government. Now why would they— Kate Ellis: Oh, for 32 cents? George Jefferson Thomas, Jr.: Uh-huh. Kate Ellis: A Medicare payment. Now Louisiana Avenue, right? That's where your office was? George Jefferson Thomas, Jr.: Mm-hmm. Kate Ellis: Okay. George Jefferson Thomas, Jr.: This is a picture of the singing groups, in front of the church, since we went every Sunday. Kate Ellis: There you are. Uh-huh. George Jefferson Thomas, Jr.: You didn't meet Mrs. Dent, since you've been down here, did you? Kate Ellis: No. I actually—We asked to do an interview with her, and she was unable. George Jefferson Thomas, Jr.: Yeah. Kate Ellis: I'm disappointed about that. George Jefferson Thomas, Jr.: Well this is a picture. I don't know when it's from. That's [indistinct 00:22:15]— Kate Ellis: [indistinct 00:22:15]. George Jefferson Thomas, Jr.: She was quite a concert pianist. A very talented— Kate Ellis: She looks so nice. George Jefferson Thomas, Jr.: Mm-hmm. Very lovely person. Kate Ellis: I guess I could guess from the clothes, what era, what decade we're in here. George Jefferson Thomas, Jr.: These are some pictures of the Boulé, when I first got in it. This when I was living over on—before I moved over here. Kate Ellis: So is Boulé, is it a mixed raced club? I mean, is it a mixed race— George Jefferson Thomas, Jr.: No, it's sole Blacks. Kate Ellis: This gentleman here, who is— George Jefferson Thomas, Jr.: Who is that? Caruso? Kate Ellis: There's a man here who looks White. George Jefferson Thomas, Jr.: Where your finger and thumb is? Kate Ellis: Yep. George Jefferson Thomas, Jr.: No, he's a minister out in California. That's Reverend Hill. Kate Ellis: Really? George Jefferson Thomas, Jr.: Mm-hmm. He is not that bright either. Kate Ellis: He's not that bright? George Jefferson Thomas, Jr.: Uh-huh. I mean, in color. Kate Ellis: Oh. I thought you meant— George Jefferson Thomas, Jr.: Now you see, all these guys are dead, that's what makes me feel like the last leaf on the tree. We were the original four in that group. Kate Ellis: Look at their faces though, it looks like it's burning down or something. George Jefferson Thomas, Jr.: Mm-hmm. Kate Ellis: The way it is there, don't they look kind of surprised or something? George Jefferson Thomas, Jr.: Yeah, I guess so. Kate Ellis: Because this is right the opening, right? George Jefferson Thomas, Jr.: Mm-hmm. Kate Ellis: And they've got flowers on their suits. That's you. George Jefferson Thomas, Jr.: Yes. Kate Ellis: C King. George Jefferson Thomas, Jr.: That's when he was leaving. He's—I was the master of ceremony. Kate Ellis: Who was leaving? George Jefferson Thomas, Jr.: Reverend Hood, the minister. The former minister. This is him on the end with that watermelon in his hand. Towards your right, where your thumb is. Kate Ellis: Wait a minute. Oh. I thought you had—It looks like a young guy. George Jefferson Thomas, Jr.: Well he was then, but he's up in age now. Kate Ellis: I wish you could tell me what era this was. Around—Would this be '50s or '60s? George Jefferson Thomas, Jr.: That's got to be in the '50s. Kate Ellis: The '50s? George Jefferson Thomas, Jr.: I'm sure it is. Kate Ellis: Okay. Good. George Jefferson Thomas, Jr.: And this one has to be in the '50s or '60s too. Kate Ellis: The cast. The Fellowship of the Fellows. George Jefferson Thomas, Jr.: Mm-hmm. Kate Ellis: What's that? George Jefferson Thomas, Jr.: That's just the men's group. That's when I was in the Army. Kate Ellis: Oh, R. Perry. Robert Perry? George Jefferson Thomas, Jr.: That's when I was in— Kate Ellis: Robert Perry? George Jefferson Thomas, Jr.: Yeah. Kate Ellis: Was he a friend of yours? George Jefferson Thomas, Jr.: Yeah. That's— Kate Ellis: He must have been. George Jefferson Thomas, Jr.: —That's Bea's father. Kate Ellis: I know. George Jefferson Thomas, Jr.: Uh-huh. Kate Ellis: So he must have been a friend of yours, huh? Because you were in the same [indistinct 00:25:08]. George Jefferson Thomas, Jr.: Yeah. Kate Ellis: What's this? Where is this taken? George Jefferson Thomas, Jr.: It was in the 1970s, I think. Kate Ellis: In the—Oh. George Jefferson Thomas, Jr.: I know I was in the Army, overseas. And this is when we first moved in that building, the clinic. Kate Ellis: Yeah. Okay. Kate Ellis: So do you think this is '50s or '60s, or later? George Jefferson Thomas, Jr.: I think it was probably in the '50s. I'm not sure, but I would guess it was in the '50s. I had hair on my head in this. Kate Ellis: Oh, I see this is the opening. This is the opening. George Jefferson Thomas, Jr.: Yes. Uh-huh. Let me see who—Everybody on there almost, is dead. Kate Ellis: Is dead? That, I don't know. It's hard for me to imagine what that would be like. George Jefferson Thomas, Jr.: I think I overstayed my time. Kate Ellis: No. Uh-uh. All right, I should ask you more questions. George Jefferson Thomas, Jr.: Okay. Kate Ellis: I know—here's—Right, you told me this. It's down here. It doesn't say it right here. Where was your mother born? George Jefferson Thomas, Jr.: I would guess Rockford, Alabama. That's where I first knew her, and that's the only place I'd ever known. Kate Ellis: Okay. Did she—She was a housewife, right? Amazing, your mom. George Jefferson Thomas, Jr.: Mm-hmm. Kate Ellis: Okay. And your father's name, I know your father's name. George Jefferson Thomas, Jr.: George. Kate Ellis: George Jefferson Thomas— George Jefferson Thomas, Jr.: Senior. Kate Ellis: And his date of birth? George Jefferson Thomas, Jr.: You're asking me? Kate Ellis: No. I'm going to look, but do you happen to remember it off the top of your head? George Jefferson Thomas, Jr.: No, I sure don't. Kate Ellis: Okay. Wait a minute, you handed me something earlier. George Jefferson Thomas, Jr.: Yeah, I was about to say, I gave you that— Kate Ellis: Not this. George Jefferson Thomas, Jr.: —the funeral— Kate Ellis: Yeah. George Jefferson Thomas, Jr.: It should be on there. Kate Ellis: I put it in one of these piles. George Jefferson Thomas, Jr.: That's another picture that was taken, that she sent me. Kate Ellis: This is great. Wow. Okay. Kate Ellis: Oh, it doesn't say. This is the back. It only says when he passed. It doesn't say when he was born. George Jefferson Thomas, Jr.: I thought it did. Kate Ellis: You would think it would. There's no obituary on there. I mean, it doesn't say— George Jefferson Thomas, Jr.: I don't know how he was when he died, but I was for sure it said on there when he was— Kate Ellis: But he was probably born in the 1880's as well. George Jefferson Thomas, Jr.: Let me see, he must have been. It wasn't in that article then. Kate Ellis: What? George Jefferson Thomas, Jr.: It wasn't in that newspaper article, huh? Kate Ellis: I'll look again. George Jefferson Thomas, Jr.: This is my daughter's wedding, and her husband's on there. He's the Iranian. Kate Ellis: Oh. Let me see this. George Jefferson Thomas, Jr.: That's the paper? I'll look it up. Kate Ellis: Now tell us more about what he did with this chart I'm checking off. What about where he was born? George Jefferson Thomas, Jr.: I think he was born in Hawkinsville, Georgia. Kate Ellis: Hawkinsville? George Jefferson Thomas, Jr.: Yes. H-A-W-K-I-N-S-V-I-L-L-E, Hawkinsville. Kate Ellis: Okay. Moving right along, can you tell me the—I need the names of your brothers and sisters, and when they were born. George Jefferson Thomas, Jr.: It's not in—It's in that thing, I'm pretty sure that I gave you it. Kate Ellis: Oh, this thing. George Jefferson Thomas, Jr.: His date of birth should be in there. Kate Ellis: Yeah. George Jefferson Thomas, Jr.: I thought she put everything in there. Kate Ellis: Okay. She writes about their marriage. George Jefferson Thomas, Jr.: You want me to see if I can find it? Kate Ellis: Oh, I see. Okay, she writes it out. George Jefferson Thomas, Jr.: I thought she had everybody's— Kate Ellis: So Portia? George Jefferson Thomas, Jr.: Mm-hmm. Kate Ellis: Okay. Well then—Oh, Edwina? George Jefferson Thomas, Jr.: That's my sister. Kate Ellis: Lottie? George Jefferson Thomas, Jr.: They're my sisters. Kate Ellis: Franklin [indistinct 00:32:20]. George Jefferson Thomas, Jr.: That's my brother. Kate Ellis: Okay. She wrote it all up here; Portia, [indistinct 00:32:24]. George Jefferson Thomas, Jr.: I thought she wrote everybody's— Kate Ellis: All right. I won't even write it all out. I'll just take this to make a copy. George Jefferson Thomas, Jr.: Good. Kate Ellis: Then I'll write it. Okay. But tell me this, what—Actually, [indistinct 00:32:44], you were third. George Jefferson Thomas, Jr.: Uh-huh. I'm the second. I'm junior. Kate Ellis: No, but I mean you were the third born. George Jefferson Thomas, Jr.: Oh, yeah. Kate Ellis: You're the third child. George Jefferson Thomas, Jr.: That's right. Kate Ellis: Yeah. George Jefferson Thomas, Jr.: I was the third, Portia's the middle one. Kate Ellis: Okay. Well this won't have this, can you tell me the names of your children and when they were born? George Jefferson Thomas, Jr.: Okay. I don't know. Let me see, my oldest son is George III, and he was born—I'm not sure about that. I think he was—Thelma? She's probably sleep. Kate Ellis: Do you have a general year, about when? George Jefferson Thomas, Jr.: I know—What year? Kate Ellis: Yeah. George Jefferson Thomas, Jr.: Yeah. He was born in 1942. Kate Ellis: Okay. Where was he born? George Jefferson Thomas, Jr.: Here in Winston-Salem, and then I'm pretty sure it was in January. I think it was in January. I'm not sure, but you— Kate Ellis: Okay. That's all right. Winston-Salem. Okay. And then who was the—What about after? George Jefferson Thomas, Jr.: The next one? Kate Ellis: Yeah. George Jefferson Thomas, Jr.: He was born— Kate Ellis: What's his name? George Jefferson Thomas, Jr.: John Charles. Kate Ellis: John Charles. George Jefferson Thomas, Jr.: Charles Thomas. Kate Ellis: Thomas. George Jefferson Thomas, Jr.: You want to know where he was born, or you just— Kate Ellis: Yeah. George Jefferson Thomas, Jr.: He was born August the—born in August, but I'm not sure about— Kate Ellis: The date? That's okay, but do you remember the year? George Jefferson Thomas, Jr.: I think he's two years younger than my older one, but I'm not sure about that. I— Kate Ellis: So I'll say 1944. And then was he born in Winston-Salem? George Jefferson Thomas, Jr.: Yes. Uh-huh. Kate Ellis: Okay. George Jefferson Thomas, Jr.: All of them were born in Winston-Salem. Kate Ellis: And then— George Jefferson Thomas, Jr.: And all my granddaughters. Kate Ellis: Some are your grandchildren. So she's got the same name as your wife? George Jefferson Thomas, Jr.: I'm pretty sure it is. Kate Ellis: Okay. Does she have a different name now? George Jefferson Thomas, Jr.: You mean her last name? Kate Ellis: The last name? Or the married name? George Jefferson Thomas, Jr.: Yeah. Yeah. Kelghati, K-E-L-G-H-A-T-I, I believe. Kate Ellis: Say it again. George Jefferson Thomas, Jr.: I think it's K-E-G-L-G-H-A-T-I, I think. Kate Ellis: That's an Iranian name, isn't it? George Jefferson Thomas, Jr.: Mm-hmm. Kate Ellis: K-E-G-L-H-E-T-I? George Jefferson Thomas, Jr.: K-E-G-L-G-H-E-T-I, I believe. Kate Ellis: Okay. And when was she born? In '46? George Jefferson Thomas, Jr.: I think she's two years younger than the next one too, but I'm not sure about that either. Kate Ellis: But she was also born in Winston-Salem? George Jefferson Thomas, Jr.: Yes. Kate Ellis: How many grandchildren do you have? George Jefferson Thomas, Jr.: Ten. Kate Ellis: Okay. I need to list places where you have lived, and the dates. Now it sounds like you moved around a lot when you were young. George Jefferson Thomas, Jr.: Yeah. Unfortunately, I don't remember too much about it. Kate Ellis: Yeah. George Jefferson Thomas, Jr.: I know I was born in Fitzgerald, and lived in Talladega, when my father was in school, before we went to be a minister in Atlanta. And then we moved to Raleigh. And from Raleigh to Winston-Salem. Kate Ellis: And then from Winston-Salem— George Jefferson Thomas, Jr.: Well, that's when I went to college, to Talladega for four years, and stayed there two years in between, to work. And then I moved to Washington for the next four years. Kate Ellis: So it was Talladega for college and then back to Winston-Salem? George Jefferson Thomas, Jr.: Uh-huh. Kate Ellis: And then to Washington? George Jefferson Thomas, Jr.: Uh-huh. Kate Ellis: Four years, you said? George Jefferson Thomas, Jr.: Uh-huh. Kate Ellis: What year did you graduate from Talladega? George Jefferson Thomas, Jr.: 1935. Kate Ellis: And you were at Talladega for four years? George Jefferson Thomas, Jr.: That's right. Four years. Kate Ellis: Okay. George Jefferson Thomas, Jr.: '31 to 35. Kate Ellis: So this I can do, the last years. And then from 1937 to 1941, you were at Howard? George Jefferson Thomas, Jr.: That's right. Kate Ellis: And then you were in the service for four years. George Jefferson Thomas, Jr.: Uh-huh. Well I did an internship first. Kate Ellis: Oh. George Jefferson Thomas, Jr.: From '45 to '46. Kate Ellis: You mean after the war? After— George Jefferson Thomas, Jr.: No. Uh-huh, that's wrong. I finished in '41. From '41 to '42, I was doing an internship in Winston-Salem. Then I went in the Army, from '42 to '46. Kate Ellis: Okay. And then— George Jefferson Thomas, Jr.: I came down here in '46. Kate Ellis: —And you've been here since? George Jefferson Thomas, Jr.: Mm-hmm. Kate Ellis: Well that wasn't so bad. I'm just going to say that—Great. Well that was—And I'll just—It's okay if you don't know that one. And then I need your—The names of the schools you attended. Now since you moved around a lot when you were young, did you have a—What about your high school? Was it one high school that you went to all the time? You weren't [indistinct 00:39:31]— George Jefferson Thomas, Jr.: It was called Columbian Heights High School at that time, but— Kate Ellis: And that was in Winston-Salem? George Jefferson Thomas, Jr.: Uh-huh. Kate Ellis: So that's when I am going to start. I'm going to start with where you went in high school. George Jefferson Thomas, Jr.: Okay. Kate Ellis: Was that a private school or public? George Jefferson Thomas, Jr.: Public. Kate Ellis: But you—as opposed to parochial school. George Jefferson Thomas, Jr.: Uh-huh. Kate Ellis: Okay. It was called—What was it called? George Jefferson Thomas, Jr.: Columbian Heights. Kate Ellis: Columbian Heights, with an N at the end? George Jefferson Thomas, Jr.: Uh-huh. Kate Ellis: Okay. And that was in Winston-Salem. George Jefferson Thomas, Jr.: Mm-hmm. Kate Ellis: And that would have been—Now you skipped years, so— George Jefferson Thomas, Jr.: Yeah. And I finished in midterm too. I finished in January of four— Kate Ellis: Of 30— George Jefferson Thomas, Jr.: —of— Kate Ellis: —'31. George Jefferson Thomas, Jr.: Yeah. Uh-huh. I just worked until September, and then I went to— Kate Ellis: Well I was going to say, you've [indistinct 00:40:20]. And then Columbian Heights, and then there was Talladega— George Jefferson Thomas, Jr.: Mm-hmm. Kate Ellis: —College. George Jefferson Thomas, Jr.: See I told you, you should have sat up here. You could have been writing much easier. Kate Ellis: What? George Jefferson Thomas, Jr.: I told you, you should have sat up here. You could have been writing much easier. Kate Ellis: Well I have my clipboard, that's all right. George Jefferson Thomas, Jr.: Okay. Kate Ellis: My handwriting is bad, no matter where I write. George Jefferson Thomas, Jr.: You write with the wrong hand, that's the problem. Kate Ellis: Well, you'd think so. Okay. And your BA, you got in 1935? George Jefferson Thomas, Jr.: Uh-huh. Kate Ellis: And then it was Howard. Howard University Medical School. George Jefferson Thomas, Jr.: Mm-hmm. Kate Ellis: And Washington. I should have been a doctor, because my handwriting is so illegible. MD in 1945. Did you have any schooling after that? George Jefferson Thomas, Jr.: No. I was in training after that, internship and residency. Kate Ellis: Okay. And then— George Jefferson Thomas, Jr.: And all kinds of— Kate Ellis: —And this is, I need to list your current and most important previous jobs. So basically, it's the job, the employer and the place, and the date. George Jefferson Thomas, Jr.: Well let me see if I can give you a print out on that. Kate Ellis: Really? You've got a—What do you have, like a— George Jefferson Thomas, Jr.: I should have— Kate Ellis: —a video kind of? George Jefferson Thomas, Jr.: No. I have it on the computer. [indistinct 00:42:04]. Kate Ellis: All right. Okay. George Jefferson Thomas, Jr.: I hope this is acting right. The printer's acting right. Kate Ellis: Uh-huh.