Cameraman: Okay, we're rolling. Interviewer: Okay, okay. Good afternoon. - Good afternoon. Interviewer: We are very grateful to you for participating in the "Witness to Guantanamo" project. - I appreciate that. Interviewer: We invite you to speak of your experiences at Guantánamo Bay, Cuba. We are hoping to provide you an opportunity to tell your story in your own words. We are creating an archive of stories so that people in America and around the world will have a better understanding of what you and others have endured. Future generations must know what happened. And by telling your story, you're contributing to history. We appreciate your courage and willingness to speak with us. If at any time during the interview, you'd like to take a break, just let us know. And if there's anything you say you'd like to remove, let us know and we can remove it. - No problem, it's all right. Interviewer: And I'd like to begin by asking some questions like your name and where you're from and your, where you're living today, and your age and birthdate. - Okay. You want me to start with my name? My name is Mamdouh Habib. M-A-M-D-O-U-H, second name is Habib, H-A-B-I-B. Born in Egypt. And my age over 50. (chuckles) My early background, it's too too far, from Palestine. My mom from Turkish, Turkish back background so far as well. I was told my mom's side was rich people, but now, when I born was no one rich, was poor. I think they lost money I don't know how. Maybe gambling. I don't know. But anyway, when I born, wasn't very good money. As family we was seven people. My family were around, five sisters, two brothers. We can afford to survive in a small house. And I was study to the high school. I left the country. I left Egypt and I start to build my life, to get married and to be as a human being, look after his life by himself. I went to too many different country around the world. Most of the Arab country and most of the Europe countries as well. And I stayed in, I was in India and Italy. I love Italy. I used to train horses. I love horse, better than the human being. Then I ended to come in Australia and I start the different life as I get married. And I got on my wife and I have four kids. And this how I start in Australia. Interviewer: Can you tell us when you came to Australia? - Actually, was a big decision to come in Australia. I was in Italy in the same time, Australian, Italy government give me a good opportunity to have Italian citizen and I have American guy, who buy a horse from my boss, his name Angelo Bazolin. I never forgot his name. And he was a nice man. And, I have opportunity to go, I think Chicago to (indistinct) the horse and the guy, he bought it from the United States. He offered me to give me a job and citizen in the United States if I train his horses well. And my sister, she asked me to come in Australia because I have my sister and my brother here. And I decided to come Australia, see my sister. The money I spend it all the way. It's very hard. This country the soon you come you can get out of it. And you're lucky if you came out because it's big, big amount of money to come. If you are a person to come for visit, and people were working all his life, a ticket and life is expensive. And I buy the ticket and I came and I couldn't go back because I spent all the money I have. And I met with my wife. Interviewer: You met your wife in Australia? - Yeah, actually her sister, she was married with my brother and, and they divorced and we continue. (chuckles) Interviewer: And when did you come to Australia? - '82 Interviewer: And where do you live now? I live in Guernica. And I start, actually around Australia, I was Sydney, only first, I used to live in an area called The Bright, then Meadowbank. Then I moved to Greenville. Then I went to area called Blacktown. Then I came to Guernica area. And this is where I am now. Interviewer: And, do you know when you were first picked up, what day that was? When you were first arrested? - Oh, I never been arrested totally. I don't like the word if arrested because arrest is someone done something wrong. Give the police or give anyone a chance to put him in jail or take him away. And I never been given anybody a chance to arrest me. I haven't done anything wrong. I call this, a kidnapping. First time I been kidnapping Pakistan, I was in bus and the people kidnapped me wasn't for me. It was two young boys from Shaman. I was in my way back to Australia. And was the bus was a stopped by civilian people. I think agencies and these people working for United state and the other country agencies. They point people, buying European and buy Middle Eastern and Arabs. They decide like, I believe this has happened long, long time ago when people, stealing people make them as a slave. Now, the time has come back again as in the new it's 2004, when 2001, they start kidnapping a human being, make experiment. And that's what they did to me. And wasn't this time it's not only me. They, a lot of people being kidnapped and I'm aware of it because this is not first. I was in, in Pakistan. And I was seeing it's a big issue in front of my own eye. Pakistan tried to kidnapping someone who is rich person is named Gatony and they shoot him front of my own eye. This is, it's a big story. I don't wanna go with you so much because it's gonna be long. This is in my book. I think you can read it, make you more clear what is about try to give you short of my experiences. That's what I'm telling you experience has stood up for these boys, because I see the Pakistani agency killing someone in front of my own eye and stealing the money and to try to do a lot of issues, not legal. And that's why I stood up for this young boys, to help them out. And- Interviewer: You know what the date it was? - The date I supposed to take the flight 1st of October, 2000, 2000, 2000, I think first 2001, 2001. Yeah, it's supposed to have the fly, 1st of October, 2001. This, no my fly, 1st of October, 4th of October, the tickets, all right? I've booked for 4th of October to catch the fly. And I got a copy of the ticket and all this, but I have a three days to stay and catch it. We catch the bus from a quite I think the 1st of October or the end of November. Interviewer: September? - It's September. Yeah, September. This is before October anyway. And they, one day wake me up, it's a three or four days missing. And until today in the government, they never mentioned what day I was kidnapped. And this is to, to make you, if you go on the records and this, I know that, but people doesn't know that, but I know that very well because the three days from the 1st of October to three of October, what the government here in Australia said, "We are aware of Habib, has been arrest." And 5th of October, and some of the documents say four of October, some of the cones say two October, but then very national national security say two October or three October. The three days, because this agency is work separately in Pakistan. The three days I was in the secret jail, and this is where the market of the human being to sell. Now where I was, it's a market, like auction. The sitting auction for me and the two boys, and appliance before they release me out. They make sell for American, Australia whole country. I got this three boys. I got that is very nice European people. You can sit him up, whatever you want. This is Habib. This Ibrahim. This is Bakim. Say what you want. Now they check it up our record. My record was America is nothing. I was until in 93. I was in America because I have my family there. I was protest for one guy, his name Said Mossein, the one he was accused for (indistinct). This the leader of the Jewish Wilson Inate. I was stood up for this guy and the camera got me when I was in the, in the case running in court. And they tried to set me up and this time put me in a good position to find as this person is a big thud worth how much now? Now- Interviewer: How much were you? Do you know how much you were sold for? - I was, by Egyptian told me I was they paying, the American paying the Egyptian 10 million. Interviewer: 10 million? - 10 million. Interviewer: For you? - For me to take me to Egypt This is America. This not Pakistani, Pakistani is from different money. Now, every Asian take his money. Now there is you have the Pakistani, the first Asian they took me. They paid the Pakistani to take me from Pakistani. Now the Egyptian to do the second job, for torture, coaching, to keep me there for few months, the America pay him to some amount of money, to get some... Interviewer: And do you know why that happened? - The guarantee I know why. The situation is, it's very clear to the world. America wanna accuse every single country, they are against United state. And America have to protect themselves from the world. Now to protect themselves from the world, they have to accuse everyone in the world, to try to bombing United State. All right, and this is what happened. Now to do this, how they gonna do it? There have to be something big happen in United State, and some people have to give evidence. We yes we wanna blowing up America. Yes we gonna do this to United State. Yes we done that. All I am, who is Habib? Habib is a person from Australia, he is, have a community, he have a lot of people listen to him, he helping people refugee in Australia, is important person. He's been aggressive in an Anti-American for sometimes in Australia, he's too dangerous for us and who's behind Mr.Habib? Who know? And now this guy is in our hands, he try, he involve was, September 11. It's not only me, I got a lot of people from different countries same situation. Interviewer: What kind of work did you do in Australia before? - well I was, I was, I have a company, a security company, and I have a restaurant in Lakemba area and I have a cleaning business. I was going very well. I was helping the community. I was helping people refugee, come from, they put him in the detention center. I was against the discrimination and I was against the people is doesn't do the right thing with the human rights. Interviewer: And did any Americans speak to you before you were sent to Egypt? - Oh yeah. The people done interview with me and nothing to do with Australia. Australia haven't been done anything. That's why I'm saying, in the beginning, cause this is in the film, it's different. What I try to tell you in the beginning, when I was kidnapped, I was sold by Pakistani. They hand me over and- Interviewer: To who? - To who I don't know. Who paying the full amount to the Pakistani, I have no idea. But, so until now I have no idea. But there is, I was informed, I was by the Egyptian they paying $10 million to keep me there for sometimes and torture. So the Pakistani, when I went Pakistani, this is because they taken time. They transfer us, it's not transferring, like someone is stealing drugs or transfer something is not legal. We are covering all the time, they put us in a van, they put us, driving and like hiding something from place to place for 25 days. They keep moving us from different places. Interviewer: In Pakistani? - Yes. Until they take us in a place Islamabad, and Australian Council, I saw him. His name Alistro Adam. He come in and he didn't see me first time. This Australian cause he gave me his business car, And I tell him "I am for Australia, I come in to see a set up. Why I'm here. You should not come in to see me. You should come and take me out of this corruption place." And he laugh and he say, "You're never gonna get out of here. You're gonna go back to Europe where you come from before. You go to back to Egypt." I wasn't believing what he saying. And I said this I say, now the world is being, because in 25 days, a lot of things happen. The war starts in Afghanistan, I wasn't know the war start. And a lot of sinkers after September 11 and all this time, I was under secret jail, I have no idea what's going on in the world. Interviewer: What did you do during those 25 days? - I didn't see nothing. (indistinct) is, was a winter at first issue, was... (sighs) Is a crime. Say I was in the cells underground. It's a torture Interviewer: There's something called a dark prison. Did you ever hear of that? - Dark prison is too many different dark prison. They have dark prison to keep you just for some time, until you come interrogation. They have dark jail, they just use the torture. They have a dark jail just reducing the lights, and they have a dark jail, they using the sounds. They have a dark jail to brainwash you. All right? And I've been through all this, I know all this. They have some of them in Pakistan, they have some of them in Egypt and I've been through all this stuff. It's too many different of dark jails. Interviewer: And when you were sent to Egypt, did you know you were going to Egypt, somewhat? - I wasn't believe this is gonna happen. I say to be honest, like say if you sit down and you're home and you find somebody, come in and you find yourself as like a it's a dream is no, I say it's a bad dream. No way is gonna happen but it happened. I wasn't believe it, he says no chance. Interviewer: Had you met any Americans by that time? - Oh yeah, well what happened is the first time, when we come to Islamabad, they promise us all the time to remove me from place to place, because they doesn't want me to fight them. 'Cause I'll fight for my life. Because these people is kidnap me. I wanna run away, I wanna do something to get rid of these people to go home. And every time they promise they say, "We could be for some reason for your safety, American kidnapping people would try to protect you from American." They lying to us. Until we go Islamabad they say, we going home now, because we talk with your ambassador, and he came in to see you, and he gonna send you home. And I wonder and I see the guy, his name Alistro Adam, from Australian embassy in Islamabad, and he give me his business card then he say, "This is what we going to do." Interviewer: What questions did the Americans ask you? - Alright, now that's the first day that guy he come and told me And he told me, "You have to cooperate because America control the world." As I said in the beginning. And I was believing because there's no way what happened has happened. And I say, "You cooperate with American, there's a way, no way out." Then the next day have two female, and one man is still female. I think one of them is CIA sorry for the language is a bitch criminal. She is a criminal. She's a CIA a woman, that's how I was informed by Australian, and by the Egyptian about this woman. She's speak very good Egyptian, and she's American 100%, her accent is 100% American. And she is the one asking me. It's not really questions, is they try to set me up. They try to say, I am a terrorist, and I'm going to hijack fly, and I am going to do this, I wasn't. I wasn't agree with anything, I was laughing. And, but they have everything, they have my luggage, they have my document, they been already in my house, they been... The way she talking to me, like she know everyone in my family. That's means during the 25 day they keep me there, there was already, done good search about my life from my family in Egypt and my family in America, and my family in Australia. Interviewer: Could you just confirm, are you a citizen are you an Australian citizen or? - Yeah. Interviewer: Or a citizen. - since 82. Interviewer: And did, why did they, why did they say that about you? - What do you mean? Interviewer: That you were involved in 911, Why did they say that? - They have to find something to keep me, all right? Now I didn't admit anything to them, and that's why in the time I was in Pakistan I was laughing at that people, because I said there's gonna be end. There's no way they're gonna keep me here for nothing. And it's no way. Because I am guarantee myself, I haven't done anything wrong to anybody. And I was really believe something's gonna happen, they're gonna release me because they can only way to do it, to get rid of me to kill me, or they gonna release me, because I haven't done anything wrong. But if they wanna get rid of the evidence, the only way they're going to kill me and I had to face that I'm innocent person if I die I will be in heaven. That's what I believe. And the time in Pakistan, they can't get anything from me because I haven't done anything to get through. But they try to accuse me, or they give me case to say up myself say, "Now with that mistake was you." But when you go back Australia what you're gonna say, is that I gonna say you what you did, you kidnap me, I've been tortured for months. I haven't done anything wrong say now, no good. It's not gonna work with these people. Now I know the people's faces and I know the names. What they try to do they try to brainwash me to get me out of what I have, to get me a new person as a terrorist, or a bad person, to send me back with bad record. Because people are gonna believe, oh I'm don't have baby, it wasn't Australia, it was helping refugee people. And in this time, they try to set up case against me here because all agency, they work together. Now in Australia, we Egyptian but Egypt cant do much about it because I left Egypt a young boy he's, yeah a guy he was 16 year old, he left the country, terrorists? They can't do anything they accuse me I was trying to kill Sadat. It's not gonna work because when the Sadat die, I was young person. Who bought this guy he gonna kill Sadat? Who's he? And I was this time in Italy as well. Now it's nothing to set me up and Egypt, and now in America, or what I did is nothing I was protest. And I was just visit United States. I have a family in New York and I just visit and people make protest against what happened in a court case. Wasn't any terrorism anything to do with this. And, they couldn't find anything. But my reputation is, shoot him as, give me bad person, because he been was Omar, Abra, Amanda, the blind Sheikh. He was this, he training gunfire in Australia, he has trained people, he went Afghanistan for few times, he being trained secretly and they make names. But they want me to admit it, they want a witness about it, but they have to set up all this, but how they going to set it up? And that's why they keep me longer to try to set up all this. Interviewer: And why do you think they sent you to Egypt? - Well because, they have, what they gonna do to me? They have the only corruption country was as a leader and running Islamabad agencies, only Egypt or someone else I can't say but Egypt is more secure because they can't take me to show them because I'm not sure the is. The end of story is they find me there or they trying to set me up in Egypt. The end of story in Egypt. Well they gonna say "Oh he was..." And this what they try to set it up. He tried to do a terrorist attack in Egypt and we pick him up. We shoot him. He's dead. But doesn't work, because what happened the guys, the the two young boys from Germany, has been released. And they released some information to the media in Germany and say, "This guy he was with us in a bus." And I haven't done anything wrong. And he disappeared. And how come if I was in Pakistan, and the same time America say, "I will go on to do a terrorist attack in Egypt." Or in the same time he say, "Oh he was in Afghanistan fighting." It's not gonna work. Interviewer: Could you describe how you were sent to Egypt? - It's really stressing, but I'll tell you it's, a really really stressing, all right? They sent me naked and it was nappies. They closed my mouth, they put some cotton in my mouth. Put a stick tape across my eye, it was a stick tape. They put it, cover was a black bag and they put (indistinct) and on top of it they put something in my ear to not listen to anything. I was like a spring roll, they all around chain around me. I can't say much. Interviewer: Were the Americans involved in this? - Three country, this country Australia, America, Pakistan, Egyptian. Interviewer: And when you got to Egypt do you know where you were taken? - No but I know it's Cairo, when I was inside because the people work inside the bag they carry but for some time I wasn't believe, I was thinking I'm in drugs. And maybe they try to make me believe I'm in Egypt. Because I wasn't believe, is long say, because I was like shocked when they take me in the fly and the way they done it to me and why they transfer me is incredible. It's not human. This people I'm not call them as a human being, is the way they done it to me and they move me to the fly. And I wasn't believe it to be. Interviewer: When you were injured, were the Americans present? - Oh yeah, the American like the leader the people they, in control. It's not, it's not, it's not, it's not Egypt. Interviewer: How do you know that? - The people when American, say Egyptian is not in control. Australia is not in control. But they have to be there. Like now you are in charge of this group. Like you're filming and you tell these people what to do. You pay him to do this for you. You make a contract to tell him what to do. And these people they have to work as what they're told. They know everything they do it. They are in the hotel, he pay and he give you the room, the man who have the camera, he do what you told him to do. The lady she's clean up to put the chair and set up everything, they know about. They know they doing like their job. But who employed them to do it, is the United States. It's America. Interviewer: Did Americans talk to you while you were in Egypt? - Yeah, it's all in them they talk to me. Interviewer: And do you know what questions they ask you? - There's no questions. They have no questions to ask. They tell me what to say. Interviewer: What did they tell you to say? - They tell me, I have to be a witness against people, to protect myself to go home. Or I have to say, "Yes I was a stupid, and I tried to do something wrong and I'm sorry for what I did." There's two way, to be a witness against somebody, or to be accusing yourself, and it was a stupid in this time and that you agree. Interviewer: And do you know what agencies were involved? - Listen, its too many. The CIA and FBI is just both of them they all involved. But the man the main the run the business is CIA. They fly by CIA, they own the control of all this things because now I discover all this stuff recently too, because the people working together, the more in control the CIA. FBI they have a limit, but the CIA because all the dirty business, the fly to go and country to country, the kidnapping, the torture, all the CIA business. Interviewer: Could you... - FBI is just to come to take his right information. He have a limits. Interviewer: And I know it's stressful, but can you tell us a little bit about how you are treated in Egypt? I know you've written about it and you've talked about it. - Egypt it's not mercy, all right? That's why some of the CIA official is, they given evidence to I think one of DVD, they've given evidence. And they say it's a free country, the American youth, Syria, Jordan, Egypt. They say America use this Jordan to take information. If you want a good information, good result of information, take your victim or take your whoever, whatever you call it. Take him to Jordan to take information. If you wanna a good torture and result from torture, take him to Syria. If you want somebody and they want him back again, send them to Egypt. And is it true, since I have forgot the name of the guy. He is from CIA official. Interviewer: Did you see See, - American. Interviewer: other Americans in Egypt? - Oh yeah. Plenty. Say it's American. (sighs) I know a lot of American. And until, until today, this people go and Egyptian agency and they have really communication. And I was until before last time I go to Egypt and saw in the Egyptian government. I wasn't from truly Australian agency to not suing Omar Suleiman, the head of the agency in Egypt, because he's a good relation between him and the United State. And then in the United States this mean Australia aside. The agency, the biggest head for, for America use is Omar Suleiman his agency. And I saw him. Now I put him, excuse me, I have a case against him in Egypt. Interviewer: And how long were you in Egypt? - I have there, they keep me for six months. Interviewer: And did you think you'd ever get out? - I wasn't believed we're gonna be survive. Interviewer: You didn't? - Noway? This is why I was fighting say six, six months of my life in Egypt, I was every day, a fight. Interviewer: Why is it? - A fight was a god to die, say a fight to them, to, I want him to take his life or he take my life. Because I believe it's, it's not, it's no way out. Interviewer: And how did you, how did you endure? How did you cope between those six years? - This is, is to believe in God. This is, is, is I had the faith and I believe God is very close to everybody. And if you're innocent person, is God protect you. And I did, I did protect from God. Interviewer: What religion are you? I'm Muslim. Interviewer: And you, did you get a Quran while you were injured? (scoffs) - You believe in it or not. The first time I'm alive, I believe some people, they, doesn't put the Quran per place. They have a missing words of the Quran. They want to give it to people inside. They make fun, if they are Muslim as a name, but they never even, I believe this people as a Muslim. They bunch of criminal, they don't respect any religion and everyone they're Omar, Ahmed, Mohammed but who care? It's doesn't matter. It doesn't matter what religion I am, the matter is, what do you belief? Are you honest belief? What's your belief or you don't believe in? I say, if you are a human being, a Jewish, a Christian or Muslim, a Buddhist, whatever you believe for your own benefit. But the benefit is, I get it from you the treatment. When you treat me well, you present your religion and in a way who you are. A lot of Isis, what's is it? It's so many people as a hypocrite Muslim. If David Hicks, he gone in Islam. For how long? It's sometimes he learned, he know Quran better me. He know the Quran three quarters of the Quran by heart. But what he's saying now, he say the Osama Bin Laden he's an idiot. He was next door and he loved him. He was leaving with him until today. I'm not gonna say Osama bin Laden is a bad person or is a good person. Nobody know what is attention until you listen, you hear from himself. What he tell you, you have to believe what he's doing himself. I have to present it. But because the government said that I have to follow it. You a man, I live with these people. You're being pay by the his home. They call it is, like here in Australia. They have center link. You know what center link, the people paying you. If you can't afford to work all this, they have a similar thing in Afghanistan. Who pays this people in Afghanistan? They come from Osama Bin Laden's money. People will not work on employment. David Hicks was paying every week or every month. I see with my own eye under his pillow. He can say, you're a lawyer. I want to face him. He'd tell me your lying. This is all his money. And he came in with a story, he say Osama Bin Laden I am he is gone. He used to pay you for years. Don't be hypocrite. Islam as person is not acceptable the Islam to be hypocrite or two faces. I believe you are a good person until you prove you wrong, you are not good person. I can't accuse you for bad person until I see you do something. You done it. Interviewer: And how do you know about David Hicks? - Ah, David Hicks. I was, I saw him first time in 2000. What happened? I've been harassing by Australian as you and the Federal Police. Because America was planning to sometimes ago to, to attack Afghanistan and they want a people advertise it. They want a people opinion. All right. They wanna know what's going on around the world because America doesn't disturb anyone wanna go war. Doesn't disturb you just to jump in like I gonna across the river. I don't know how far I've got my neck. I have go down there, no they wanna check up what's before they start, what's gonna happen. And now they've been looking around what happened to me. I know too much. And that's why David Hicks when I left Australia, I have a business to looking for. I used to try to find any in the beginning to get out of Australia because I feel fully racism. To me I feel the stress, I was sick, I lost my business. They make me look. They put me in pressure and I was really sick and tired of it. And I wanna find my life. And I want, I told my wife, we're gonna go anywhere. I go to Asia, I went to Egypt. Egypt is the same system. We try to find the, you see someone sick and tired of people around him. They wanna go somewhere else fresh. And I've been in a process to do it. I went first time Pakistan, and I went Egypt. I went Emirates and different countries to step first step. And when I was in Pakistan, because by myself, I tried to find the cheapest way to live. They have a house as they call (indistinct) this houses like a Dow, where people didn't know what is. They have a people advertising the Islam. They have houses, so many of these houses in Pakistan. And this (indistinct) run by Pakistani government. All right. These houses, they doesn't, you know pay a cent to live there for food or sleep. And people advise me say, "Oh, if you wanna go Pakistan free." Because people would go from mosque to mosque say, you don't have to go mosque, just to go in the house. So this house is, they feed you and they give you the room to sleep. Laying out once the area was the hole. And I went to one of these houses, was David Hicks stay in this house in 2000. And it was his (indistinct) And on me, it was him. He was to study Quran. I saw him for about six, seven hours on my time. Because I went there about to in the afternoon or maybe mid-day. And I sit with him was the one guy from Saudi Arabia his name Ahmed, until at night 10 o'clock. He lift his sleigh bed because next day he was sent to study, university Islam in (indistinct) the (indistinct) to study. And he was like against fully Afghanistan. He called him a stupid, not religious. And he's against Osama Bin Laden, against Taliban. And he have really give a lot of comment about Afghanistan. They said this, these people Kafir non Muslim. And I was against what he said, because so why you have decided about somebody you never believe was sinner, I live with, I was there and come back, he doesn't like the life and came back to (indistinct) because he feels (indistinct) is a good people and they didn't do anything And he, he wants to fight for Kashmir, the Indian people. And I wasn't really believe I was thinking his as official or he worked for some Asian things. Cause the way he talk is openly, and he gets too much different issues. I was for him in 2000, I saw him in this house. About 10 o'clock, he went to sleep and I want to see this guy. We went for a coffee and I wasn't really have a good feeling about him. But he mentions this day about some people in Australia, one of them, they call Balal Ghazal. This guy is being accused here in Australia for the tried to blow it up McDonald and Lebanon. But some make you say it's, that's what I say. In the beginning of this show, the government love a terrorist. They want a terrorist business running, because this guy is named Balal Ghazal, he's been protected even by Australian agencies as you, he was accused for attacking McDonald and Lebanon and blew it up. Now he's out of jail. The, as you go in in 2009 or seven, given evidence, he said, he's a good friendship with us the officials. And- Interviewer: Was Jack Thomas around at that time too? - Jack Thomas. What I find out from David first time, when I come back in Australia, I got so much, they mentioned about some people, but he doesn't give me names, but the name, he gives it to me Balal Ghazal. And Balal Ghazal, he's here in Lakemba in Sydney, said this guy from different city and how come he knows Balal Ghazal, but Balal Ghazal he was with him in the house and had promised he wanted to send him to get married at his sister. That's what David Hicks thinks told me. And when I asked Balal Ghazal, people know him in Lakemba, I don't him much. And they say they have a different one, but I was, I was believed it's this day, if it takes over Jack Thomas, I wasn't know Jack Thomas. But when I go a second time in 2000, in Afghanistan, I see Jack Thomas, myself. He's a bigger mama, he look at taller Benny, he's a leader. He have a group of people behind him security. And he didn't wanna talk to me. And David Hicks said, Oh, he said, "Do you know these guy?" I said "No." Now is this guy, but he looks white. It's not really Afghan. He said, this is Australian. And I said, "Can I talk to him?" He said, "No." He said he doesn't trust you. And for his protection, he can't talk to you. And i say, "Why he talked to you?" He said, "Because I know him, even from Australia." And said, well, what's, what's the protection. I said, well, he doesn't want to talk to you. And for security. So, all right. And when I noticed, because as you went to try to employ me in Pakistan, he showed me his photo and another lady, her name Robbie Hutchison. She was Australian lady. She was in Afghanistan for maybe six years or 10 years. She's dead. And her kids and everything makes sense after it. Interviewer: What was she doing there? - She was a nurse. Interviewer: Working for who? - I think you should read her book, "Arabi Hatchson." What do they call her book. I don't remember her book. What they call it is it's, "Hidden Australia." It was her book she has been released. And this, this light as you given me her photo and her son, his name Mustapha. And also a guy, his name, Matthew Stewart. Why? Why are you always after me? Because they give me information and that's why they send me in Egypt too. They give me a lot of information. Cause they're tried to employ me and I had I refuse and I recorded when I talk with Andrea, I record what they asked me for. And they scared if I go back and I release this information, they're going to be in trouble. Interviewer: Any information you've got from David Hicks and Jack Thomas. And would you like to help us. - That's the information I got at later on. Now from Jack Thomas, Jack Thomas, I got his information from David Hicks. But the, what matters to you were the guy, he's still now, until today. He's a military officer from Australia. He fighting now until now in Afghanistan against United States of America and he's Australian. He's a military. His name Mathew Stewart. When I came in Australia, they showed him a photo, someone released in video. And I say, I stood up for Afghanistan. And I gonna fight against America. And I gonna fight against every single American, coming Afghanistan and Australian official said, "Oh, this sounds like a Britain." But this, his photo, give it to me. When I was in Afghanistan and Pakistan by as the official when they tried to employ me, they gave me this photo and I was surprised as you and the Australian media. So this guy, he looks like he is a Britain. And now we have no idea about him. If you ask Australian official now or Australian government about Mathew Stewart, they're going to say, "We'll have no idea." But this guy he's in a military official. He went to Afghanistan in 2001, he fight against United States and Australia, he was a military who was in Indonesia, what they call as Estimo. And because the corruption of the military and what happened, sexual stuff, and all this, he left and he ran away. He went up Afghanistan. Interviewer: Did you ever meet John Walker Land? He was the American (indistinct) - Yes. The white guy. The big one. Yes. Interviewer: Where did you meet him? - In Kandahar. Interviewer: How did you meet him? - In the kitchen. He doing food. Interviewer: He was doing? - Yeah. When I went Afghanistan, it was really people to me is they accuse as a stranger. Because David Hikes he may give me better protection as I'm a spy. Interviewer: David Hicks called you a spy? - Yeah, he told people, he doesn't tell me myself but he tell the people in Afghanistan, I'm a spy. I'm a CIA or as the official. My life wasn't risking it in Afghanistan. But everybody talking to me I was very careful with me. All right. Now to my position, because actually, maybe you got confused. Why I'm being in Afghanistan in the beginning when I was, and I want to Pakistan and someone is being killed. And because of me, they, his name Gatony. And because this man, he won my employer, he take me to Saudi Arabia. I'm going to work for him, as a contractor. And when we did record them for assay to try to employ me and I went to him, I said, "I'll be in under pressure of the Australian officials. They want to employ me." He said, don't worry just to go meet with them, recording. And we filming him and we make him look bad in the media. We protect you. And what it did, I did what he said. And I take the photo of the Azure official. And I record the conversation. And when did tell me about Trabia and the guy from Manchester woods and Jack Thomas and all this stuff, all this in my tape recording, he take all this with me and he gave it to his lawyer. One in Saudi Arabia and one in Pakistan lawyer, and photo in some of this, and say, This is why, when they picked me up, they find this stuff in my bag. And this why they scared to send me back in Australia. And this one of the reasons too, to me release, was I would admit any crime I did. Interviewer: And what- - What happened, we try to go through the media when he was killed. I tried to find way back to Australia, but I didn't know where to go. I have one left over from these guys. One, his name, Abdul Ilah this guy from Saudi Arabia. He go with me and is the only a way, we go through Iran to go back home. Because now they know you in Pakistan, they gonna go every airport, they gonna stop it for you. Then we went to Iran, we said, we go to the Al Jazeera and Afghanistan. They have a Cabo, they have an Al Jazeera office. If you're aware of that, that's the first one is being a shop by American, when they have war, I think that's what I said. We try to go to the Al Jazeera. This guy we meet with, he's now in his span, under house arrest. Everyone, they know he's a threat, because of me, he's been house arrest until today. Because he have my tape, he have my story, he have the name of the agencies, and he's been arrest when he had this stuff. That's what I believe. And now, I have no evidenced to bring it. They say, "This is all my evidence." Because when they asked me, I was, I was honest, in the beginning and I told them the truth. And they asked me, who do you think have the tape? Who you think have the evidence? Who you think have got the tape? Who you think got the photo? And I told him, I said, "I haven't done anything." They asked about, "No, the Australian." But who know? Maybe the Australian asked me, and I wasn't know that I've been asking by the Australian. I've been honest with the Egyptian from the beginning. Cause I said what to do is in Egypt. I wasn't, I haven't done anything wrong. The agency that tried to employ me. "So why are you here?" I said, "I have, I brought for you, I never been in there." I haven't done anything wrong. When they've been tried to employ me, I done this and I got the tape, bring my bag. Until today, I didn't have my bag. Interviewer: Why did you finally center out of Egypt? Why do you think they sent you out of Egypt? and then to Guantanamo. - This is what I'm trying to tell you because now to try to set me up was any cases I told them, the old, every single I told them, they find is the truth. Now, I'll told him about the video and the what's it called? The film, the camera I've been filming the Azure. I got the recording tape recording about Azure and I had talked to try to employ me. And if they send me back in Australia, they have to give me every single have. And that's why I went the case here to Australia because it doesn't give me what is my bag? And they gave me a $100, like $200. Where is the rest of my luggage? Where is all my stuff? Where's the document I have? What is this? They said, they have a list. Where is the list I have? They said, they have a (mumbles) tape. What is this tape? We wanna see it, but they take it because the tape are recording the conversation between me and Azure, how they tried to employ me to send me in Afghanistan to, to find Jack Thomas and Matthew Stewart. Interviewer: And so when you were sent out of Egypt, did you really going to Guantanamo - No I never know, even Guantanamo bay, I don't know what it is. Interviewer: You never heard of it? - I heard about it when they send me back to Afghanistan. Interviewer: And when do you hear of it, in Afghanistan? - Because what happened they take me to Egypt now in Egypt in the beginning, I said, I've been honest, that's what I'm listening. I haven't done anything wrong, I'm very confident, this is the issue. I've got this guy. And I give the tape to this media guy from this. I was Afghanistan because this reason said, because we bring you here because he was in Afghanistan. I said yes, I'm not denying I was in Afghanistan, but I tried to run away from the Azure. The agent is trying Asia since. They tried to get me. And- Interviewer: So when you were taken back to Afghanistan. - They took me from Pakistan because I was become disabled because in Egypt, they gave me a lot of drugs. I become paralyzed. And my left side. Yeah, yeah, I was in my left side is gone. Yeah. From the drugs and electric shocks. Yeah, I was and- Interviewer: Do you know what kind of drugs they gave you? - I don't know. Until today, maybe you see my body has become I will become itchy or I'll got a lot of itching, I'll go swore, but no one knows. They gone and come back. They gone and come back and no much we can do. Doctor think is a skin problem, but it's not true because someone does say you have eczema, eczema. And some of them, they say I don't know. Someone say from stress, but this is kinda my hands look like fluid. They come like and start itching my body. Interviewer: Were the drugs given to you as injections- - Everything, everything, drugs, sniffed, rink, food, needle, everything. Interviewer: And when they send you to Afghanistan you know who you were? - No, no I never, know. I never know my life since they kidnapped me, where are they gonna take me. I've been transferred more than 10 times or 12, they keep transferring me. Interviewer: Where did they change from the Afghanistan? - Well, the first they take me from Egypt and they say they gonna be released because I was very sick. They try to make me sense for us. I know something happened because I know people, I had the feeling and I have all the time. I have a vision, something going on and trust me or not. I see myself, where I go before I go they come and I was in this time, maybe you hear a program, was one from Qatar country. And he, he, he did talk about me and say, they call him for help because I was dying in this time. I remember before I left Egypt, they have a lot of people they come in to see me I was paralyzed and they try to tell me, "Are you're going home, you're finish? what you gonna tell about Egypt and all this setup?" Oh, this one, I go in Australia, I'm gonna say Egypt is a corrupt and criminal. They done this and this. So you still send us a (indistinct) until I die, I was paralyzed in this time. When they take me in Afghanistan, they take me to Pakistan and they transfer me from Pakistan. I have one guy from Pakistan. He can tell you the story too. His name's (indistinct) he's paralyzed, but now he's have a problem with his name. He's been released too. His name Sadik but he being kidnapped from Indonesia, Jakarta. Interviewer: He was in Afghanistan with you? - Yeah, he was no. He'd been kidnapped from Jakarta by the American. And he's now back in Pakistan. Interviewer: When you went to Afghanistan, how long were you there before you were sent to Guantanamo? - Well, he, I was released with this guy from Egypt in the same car. What he told me, I'm being contact with him. So if you wanna one day, I let him talk to me in the phone, you can hear him. Interviewer: Okay. - And maybe I can try him now if you want to. Interviewer: No, lets finish - It's what happened? He was kidnapped and sent to Egypt. He'd been on torture similar as mine. Then he was sent in the same time back to... He told me in Bagram, but I was told I was in Pakistan and from Pakistan, take us to Bagram and they keep me in Bagram. I wasn't able to an airport, in Bagram. I wasn't able to walk, to stand. Sorry. Interviewer: Why not? - I was already disabled. Interviewer: Your legs were- - I was gone. It's not mentally it's. I go head spin, I can no balance. If I stand up, I go back or go front. I can't. Interviewer: What caused that? - The, the electric shock, some of the doctors said someone was saying this drugs. And that's what I always to bleed from my nose and my ear and all the time. But I can understand when they take me to Guantanamo they used to... Something like a machine and my hands metal to make me stand in the beginning. I wasn't believing we're gonna be survive, since I wasn't believing, I'm healthy and I do exercise around again and again. And I'll be clothes. This is a mercy from my (indistinct) I can't deny that and says, and that's what I fighting until now. And this is why I accept your interview because I say I gonna fight to the last drop of my blood. And last minute of my life to tell the world how criminal this people is. Interviewer: So how long were you in Afghanistan before? - They sent me in to Bagram for 15 days, I think, or 11. And what the game is, is a bloody game because the media follow me. Some of the media fine about ma may I'm in Egypt. And when they meet, that's all we discover all this wouldn't have a case against Australia in a court paper document. What happened? And the media find out someone in Egypt Habib and what he's doing there and where he is when the media stopped, put the hand where I am in Egypt, they release me and they find out I'm sick person is not able to even stand up and say how will they get this guy? I got to meet with people, they're going to say, it's, it's being killed in Egypt. They tried to make me admit something and I refuse again. And they find out that I'm gonna die. And Egyptian government doesn't wanna put themselves in a responsible for killing him. Have to tell him, take him out of the country. Let him die in Pakistan or somewhere else. Not in here. Interviewer: Did you see any doctors while you were in Egypt or Afghanistan? - The doctor is a criminal. He say, what doctor is say is a doctor is a criminal who's doctor gonna come in a secret place or the torture place? What's type of doctor he entry in a place like this. He is a criminal. You have to be criminal. Interviewer: Why, why would they do? - Because it's a torture there. People try to kill you slowly. How what doctor is going to see a person, and people try to kill him. If this doctor try to make him survive, this mean he try to make him get more take more torture. I'd rather to let me die not make me survive. Interviewer: Did doctors examine you to see that you were surviving? - Examine every place I go from transfer. When to transfer me from place to place, they get the doctor see me. They filming me fully. Photograph inside my mouth every part in my body naked. They filming everything and to transfer me and the other one take me. They do the same thing. Every time they remove me. Interviewer: And did the doctors examine you? - It's not a doctor is a government business. Like give you Basel and they used to call me is anyways Basel sometime, and sometime they call me what they call it? Baggage. I'm a Baggage sometime call me Basel, sometime they call me different name I forgot the name. They call it And we find the name and the meaning of it Like, I don't know the word but something like that. They say something Baggage they calling us. Interviewer: And when you were disabled in Afghanistan, did American doctors see you there? - Was worst to see in Afghanistan to see a doctor or to be in a place there because is no such a doctor. And Afghanistan is no such American doctor. If anybody tell you they have a doctor there, they lie to you. The doctor only for military people and this is different area. We have a doctor his name Amon, he used to help the American. He is a doctor but he'd been picked up from Afghanistan, Now he's a crazy. He's still in Guantanamo Bay. His name Amon. He's a doctor. He got two few doctors, they used to help him because they have no doctor. They have no doctor. Interviewer: And when you were centered Guantanamo, did you know about Guantanamo then? - No Interviewer: Could you describe? - What happened they take me in Bagram, in Bagram they keep me because I think they'd been rushed to send me because they sent me with three people disabled, one two one one guy from Tunisia, his name and Lotfi, and one guy his name Nur from Algeria they disabled. And they take all the disable people in one fly. I remember I've been transferred with these guys from Bagram to Kandahar. They keep me in Kandahar for another 11 days, and they come and they take me straight away to Guantanamo Bay. Each time when the red cross come to me and I find next day I fly. Interviewer: The red cross came to you and- - And they come to me in Bagram, and another part what we said here when we come to Australia they say, they informed the council in Islamabad, I am in Bagram. And they waiting for the council reply. And (laughs) that transfer suddenly a transfer to... Interviewer: And when you was transferred to Guantanamo did your wife know where you were? Could you speak to her at all? - No, No, no. I said, as I told you, even when I come talk with the lawyer, what's his name? Yeah. No What's his name? (indistinct) Interviewer: Kenny? - Steve Kenny. Because David Hicks was in Guantanamo Bay. Australian government doesn't wanna help me with anything. Doesn't wanna, they show me no mercy. You can say that they doesn't interested for me to be even survive all right? Because they just cross on me. They doesn't what to do with me, they want me to be disabled and mental. I was one year and a half in a dark room I never see. Interviewer: In Guantanamo? - In Guantanamo Bay first year and a half, I was in a room not seeing nothing for a cell dark 24 hours, just someone Chinese I never forgot that. Chinese military woman she go in, she give me one shot. And I found myself naked in the floor all the time. This as memory until 2003. First time I say, they take me out of this cell they brought me next day with Hicks. After in 2000 train, they brought me the next day with Hicks and they would say to me to me, please me and you this exact words. When they brought me next to him he was in the first level one. You know what's mean level one. Level one one because in Guantanamo Bay they had level one, level two, level three, level four I was level four, and was what do you call, I see lost no item all my life in there. This mean naked all the time. David Hicks he was a level one extra this mean he have everything and have a magazine in his cell, and they try to tell me see how we treat him? Cooperate and he told me, man I know you I see on in Pakistan in 2000. And I see in Afghanistan and say, yeah, they'd see in Afghanistan but I'm not there to do anything wrong. I didn't see you in Pakistan. I didn't dare to make anything wrong well if you done something it's up to you say just let him release you. Just tell me and you in the same ship. They not gonna let me out without you. And they not gonna let you out without me I said I don't give you shit sorry for language. But I haven't done anything wrong but you was fighting there. You have a gun. You released a video tape to attacking the world. Interviewer: David Hicks released the video tape? - Yes. The tape of Osama bin Laden, when he had ban his arm he say gonna shoot the world and all this. He is Jack Thomas and David Hicks and is preaching guy. That's what David Hicks said in his message. Interviewer: They are in the tape? - They one covering the face and kicking the door and shooting the statue. This them. And that's the tape is been released by these people. And the end of the story Jack Thomas, they find, the court find him is innocent person. I don't believe that, are you gonna believe that? Because he say Osama bin Laden is a terrorist. But you live with him for for six easy idiots. And he coming out after six years because he's being killed. So he's a terrorist? What about you? Your honest? Hypocrite. And they was there. And they released it too, I haven't done anything. And David Hicks he's been treated in Guantanamo Bay, like a King I'll tell you that. He's suffering today saying Oh I haven't been treated. He's a lawyer and I can give you 100 of people It's being released from Guantanamo Bay they can tell you on the phone, how David Hicks is been treated like a King. He have a walkie talkie in his cell. He called the guy any time he want to go out for rec. Anytime. He smoke in the cell. He give me smoke. And he say you cooperate you and me in the same ship. I said no I'm not. (indistinct) shit ship I'm not a there. I haven't done anything wrong. I haven't done anything let him kill me, but I'm not gonna say I done anything wrong. And I haven't done it let him kill me. I already been killed in Egypt from the beginning, but he being cooperate as a lie and he can do this all the time. Interviewer: What did he say to you when you said that? - He say it's up to you, you're losing I said I lose I don't care. I lose. Say ain't gonna be here all life. And if we not released by this in this time can was around Ramadan I believe said if we're not released by this from Ramadan, we never gonna get out. I said I never be out. I never gonna go out with a charge of this place. Because I haven't done anything wrong. I was kidnapped and this is exactly the truth. I haven't done anything, I haven't carried a gun, I haven't carried bomb. I'm not trying to do anything to harm nobody. These people done kidnap me and put me in torture for no reason. You being picked up in Afghanistan, with your gun in your hand you done something wrong, your enemy combating after them to do to you. You broke the law broke up to you, but you on him. But I stood up for you. And I say yes I done that because and I haven't done it. I don't have to do this, because on the same ship, I don't wanna go with this ship. Let this ship go. Interviewer: What happened to you when you told them that? - They take me back to the isolation and done finish. They start torture again. Not allow me to sleep. They move me from cell to cell. I was through the hell. Interviewer: Did you see the red cross while you were in Guantanamo? - Yes I see red cross. Is it corporation to the United States? It's a corporation. I don't believe in red cross it's rubbish. America doesn't give red cross permission to go in until to be quiet. That's the deal and this what I was taught. And even the letter until today, the red cross scare especially with me, because I know the red cross very well. Red cross even they report the lying report. They say we contact the Australian council in 2000, and when they pick me up when I come to Bagram, it's not true. If they contact the council, we say who you did talk with? They say no they can't say it. Why not saying who you did talk with in Australian council? When you're saying in Bagram, the same we say in Kandahar. Why council background and doesn't wanna put dates? It's all corporate Interviewer: Did the Australian government come in and interview you while you were in Guantanamo? - I'll tell you what? Australian government is every single thing they done is lie, dishonest, they corrupt. They fully lie from the prime minister, to every even to the small Sergeant or officer in a department of foreign affairs or federal police, or as you is all lie. Interviewer: Why do you say that? - Because this lie, fabricated. Everything is been fabricated about my case. Interviewer: Did they speak to you while you were in Guantanamo? - They say they meet with me in their own document in court. They say they speak to me in Pakistan intricate me. I never see official in Pakistan. The American came to see me but they're Australian. They make a statement. This one, they come in giving evidence in court. They see me and the guys tell me I did see you in Pakistan. I see him in Pakistan only see me Let's try (indistinct) Australian ambassador his name (indistinct). He say no as your official official give you his card but they give you card of the ambassador. Why the ambassador send his business card? Was is it official? Why not Why? Why he give it to agency? Oh, what do you call it as official to give me his business card? Because they know in business card in here and I go what's in there They put electric shock and the drugs to make me brainwashed and forgot his name And I still until today if you check up in 60 minute program, the first issue I remember that come in my memory, when I see Alistro Adam's photo I say this the one I saw him in Pakistan and this is the one he sent me in Egypt. It's all a lie, it's corrupt. Interviewer: Did you see any doctors In Guantanamo? - No Interviewer: No? - They didn't take me in hospitals. Even and their report they lie about it. They said done operation for me in my tummy. They been planning to do something for me, but doesn't work out. They say they have operation, they done operation for me in my legs. They give me medicine. They tell me I had a cancer prostate. And the Australian official, he give it to me the bottle, and the bottle said "A medicine of Habib." In Guantanamo Bay alright? Australian didn't already give me medicine for cancer, and I still until now I have it in my hand. And the guy is say you have a cancer. They try to make me believe I had a cancer prostate. Interviewer: Did they try to help you with your disability? - Australia? Interviewer: No, American doctors. - They love to me to be sick. I used to dying at day every day they love to have me sick. Interviewer: Why? - Because this is part of suffering. I was hunger strike. You know what they do to me because they used to give me drugs in my food, alright? And I stopped eating. I done hunger strike because I feel myself, I'm doing something. I'm not feeling I'm normal to do it. When I done hunger strike I find myself. I know where I am I know who I am. I wasn't know everything. Interviewer: Did they force feed you? - They force me feed me that's why I have ulcer. They used to bend the the nose, they brought it through my nose a hose, and the guy make it like a plumber in and out until today I got ulcer. I didn't think I ate as burning. Interviewer: How long many days did you get force fed? - Oh, I was, for some time I was sick and this time I was really sick. Interviewer: Why didn't you stop? - Stop what? Interviewer: Why didn't you start eating so you could stop being force fed? - I wasn't scared to it because they gave me drugs in food. Because I wasn't normal. The soon I ate they gave me something. Even the guy I have a witness. They his name Mohammed. He's now from what's it called? They released him from what country is, Chad. He's Saudi Arabian by background his Chad. He's seeing the guards because they mark my fruits. Because they have a special people to give them drugs. And the guard had told me he told me that he used to call me Abahmed the name. Faizal Abahmed. Say don't eat your food, I say why? He say I see the guy outside, he had a Mark in your plate. - Interviewer] How do you know they didn't put drugs in the food When you were forced fed in the liquid? Could they have done it? - Well, I can't do much about it. What they do is when you force him, you can't do much. Did you say my photo in the book? Interviewer: I haven't opened the book. - All right open the book show me the photo. Interviewer: I can look at the photo later. - Yeah it's I was 50 kilo. Interviewer: You weighed 50 kilos? - I was my weight was 50 kilo when I come in Australia. Interviewer: Because you wouldn't cause you- - I'm not eating I can't eat. I'm not eating because I wanna die, but I'm not eating because the drugs, and I'm not trusting the food. The guy give me plate he urinates in it. And he told me you want it or not. I don't want it I don't want this food. They said they respect religion, they never respected religion. Interviewer: And where were you force fed? In the clinic? - Well they have a special people they take him. They have a clinic a different clinic. They have their clinic outside. They have they brought me in a freezing area. Is air conditioned very freezing. And they brought you're naked. They have a level of say like I used to sleep in bed, was handcuffed like this. One handcuff in right one in other side, my legs open as well was handcuffed as well. And this one he had gone to hospital for a hunger strike. Interviewer: When you were force fed where you put in that chair that they used? - No in bed. Interviewer: You were in bed when they force fed you? - They give you this one that's it. You can't do much about it. Because he had been tied up says. Interviewer: How many times a day do they force feed you? - Oh I don't remember they bend. They have like food cans, they just to come and put it in this this straw in and they go. Interviewer: Did you see other people? - There's no first food. Is they put you some in your nose, like a cup and a tap, they just to put him in and it goes that's it. They go through in your body. It's not forced into in Egypt they do this, in Egypt they put you in the floor, and the two people open your mouth, and they feed you by force. Interviewer: They do that to you? - Yes they done it so many times. Interviewer: Did you see other people being force fed in Guantanamo? - Oh yeah. They have one guy who was Palestinian, who was over two years. They have Kuwaiti guy but sometimes too. So many people yeah. Interviewer: Did you get to be friendly with anyone in Guantanamo? Were you friendly with anyone in Guantanamo? - Like who? Interviewer: I know did you get to- - Guards or you talk about the detainee? Well detainee it depend, because the detainee even America making rooms inside, they make people the detainee hate each other. They make rumors this they work for us, and this guy work for us and people start not trusting each other they stupid. Even play with the peoples mind and some people believe it and some people say America said we have a 300 people now, Well maybe 200. I don't believe that. To me believe now in Guantanamo Bay not less in at least 900 people there. Interviewer: You think today? - Today not less I'm guarantee that, not less than 900 people there with my guarantee. And I know every place see they think am stupid, but I've been every single place in Guantanamo Bay. They remove me every single place. Before I come was the building camp called camp six. I know camp six before the building I see the map of it. I see the plan of it because what the Australian done, they put me Guantanamo Bay as Egyptian. No one no know I am a Australian. And that's why the guard to used to talk in English and no one believe I understand English because they think I'm an Arab. And that's what the America this Australia did. They put it as I am Egyptian. What they gave me for my hand that they put the names, they say E and G, Egyptian. Interviewer: And so you could listen to, - I listened to them I say, I know what the world... I'm saying the world doesn't know. And from Egypt, from Pakistan, from that's why I broke a Australian, I'm saying I'm glad of it, I'm proud of it, I'm a strong of it. I'm saying, I know what's the broke Australian government. I broke the Australian government because everything I know it's truth. And what the government involved with is the biggest corrupt in the world I see people die, I see people killed, I see people stealing money for no reason, I see innocent people, people from FBI and CIA was killed American. They killed them in Egypt because they changed their religion to Islam and they was a CIA official and he become Muslim and stay in Afghanistan his name Henry, he was killed in Egypt. He was with me. I know leaders, there's been kidnapped from different country are being killed in Egypt in front of my own eye. I know how the agency work. Interviewer: When you were in Guantanamo did psychologists ever come to talk to you? A psychologist? - Where? Interviewer: In Guantanamo. - That's a funny question. Psychology is the business is running in Guantanamo Bay. America sold Guantanamo Bay for all the doctors, American doctor in America or different country is the biggest business. Call it experiment in Guantanamo Bay. In Guantanamo Bay is a doctors. It's not interrogator it's the doctors. The doctor have a few detainee he want a surge. He wanna make his study in this few people. What's Habib story? What's Bini Amin story? What's this guy story? I'm not interested people in Afghanistan, I'm not interested. I want people to have a brain. I wanna study good case. And this guy he sent his interrogator, his interrogator work for his experiment. And this guy he asked me the question he's been told to ask. Interviewer: What kind of question would he ask? - The band what the experiment go what the guy the doctor wants him to do, because he's got him make a say, make a surge and make a course like what you're doing now. Study what torture study about how to treat him. Because they try to make the American, when they go into the war this one, some of the people I was told to hear the military themselves said when they try to make that Spanish people say, they said, "When American get in a war and they taken for torture, they have to know what way they think people can talk." And this was the practiced What's the worst torture to it? And that's what happened it's experiment place. It's not a doctor the hospital for temporary business They doesn't care people get killed. They put him there for that. What's a big deal. How many people do you know how many people been, how many people America admit is been killed in Guantanamo Bay did you know any? Is America admits of anybody being dying in Guantanamo Bay? Interviewer: Yes, they do. - How many? Interviewer: I think six. - Six, are you believe yourself? Since 2001 until today six people die in Guantanamo Bay? Interviewer: How many do you think died? - I believe my own eyes. I see no less than 10 people die in front of my own eye. Interviewer: How did they die? They die by kicked and hitting and someone draining the water. Oh man. Interviewer: You saw people. - I saw a guy, I was in the cell, this area next to camp four ask about camp four. David Hicks know came before very well. Camp four is a place, they have a few... I used to tell people they have a woman in Guantanamo Bay. People say, "No." I say, "I hear a woman." I see a woman, When they remove me inside. I see a woman and young shield 10 months old, no one believed me, until the recently. America admit they have a guy now his age is nine years old. Does mean how hold he was when he was in Guantanamo Bay? He's a gamey guy and the woman, the one what's her name? Afya. She was there after how long? Yeah, I saw her there in Guantanamo Bay and I bought him my book and no one believed me, but I seen it because I've been removed. They remove me every hour, every single place in Guantanamo Bay I've seen it. I seen it in my own eyes, they think I'm gonna be crazy. And this is what the Australian government tried to say. When I come back to him, Mr. Habib he is gone. But doesn't work because I'm not crazy, I'm normal. And this mercy from our last panel, the Alla from God, it's not mercy from the America, it's not mercy from Australia. Australia doesn't feel for me. And doesn't give me money because I'm a good boy. I've been punished for no reason. Now they give me money to shut me up, to keep me quiet. But the money they give it to me. It's not even one of my rights until today. Australian government haven't been apology for me. I've been harassed, they try to... Since I was released and I come in Australia one week, they not even leave me to rest with my family. They tried to arrest me for double murder. I see people get killed. Even people innocent or whatever it is. I called the police. They come and they tried to set me up for murder case. Interviewer: When you were released can tell us how, how you felt when you were released court? Did you expect- - I wasn't believe it. Even ask, if you go back to Joe Maguli ask him. Joe Maguli, he told him, listen, I don't wanna see your face anymore. I don't wanna even to say listen Habib maybe one year, he take him to come back to get me out. I said, don't come back because I don't wanna see you. Before I've been released We was planning, took it out of Guantanamo Bay. And my plan, maybe you hit what somebody after I left, they tried to run away from Guantanamo Bay. This is my plan was. Interviewer: To run away. - Yes. To get out of Guantanamo Bay because we know the system, I was planning to do it. We don't care if somebody have to die to get the people released and all after I left someone done it, I think. Interviewer: To try to break out? - Yes we tried. Interviewer: How would you have done? - I was in camp India, right? I know every single thing We're changing Guantanamo Bay. As my information, they take you in the room outside in the shower area sometimes. In the shower area, they have a small window. They only release your hands. When you go inside the shower, they have a window. You give him hands to take the handcuff to take the legs off from the down the bottom, down the bottom in camp India is very high, you can take your head out. I've been trying me and another two guys. I don't want to mention names. And, and one of Tony's in he's very tough person. And one was Arabian and two people and three of them I think that they been released. Another two I don't know what happened to them. When he got in the shower, the two shower was the same. We're done already making as some plan to do it. But after are done this plan, I think that they hear us and I've been removed to camp five. All right and sometime I was hitting some people was trying to get this and Cambodia to get out of. But I wasn't even believe I've been gonna be release but I was prepared to die any time. Interviewer: Before you were released, could you send letters to your wife? - Australian government and American government they were sending a letter in my behalf. I never write a letter. Interviewer: You never wrote a letter to your... Why not? - Because I don't wanna make my wife believe I'm surviving because I wasn't even believed my family survive. I was thinking all died already. Interviewer: Why? - And even I wanna tell them my mind, even the survive, because that's what I was told. That's what they show me in Egypt that my family was killed. Interviewer: So you thought they had... - And I want to tell myself is the truth. That's what they told me. And I told myself, I have to believe that. And it's good for me. Make me keep going. Interviewer: And you never got a letter from your wife, from the red cross? - They used to give me a letter. I didn't accept anything. Even in the reports say, Habib doesn't accept anything. Even the guy come from Australia, his name Taca, Australian official. He's talking to me and I don't accept anything from him. I know even talking to him. Interviewer: And when you left Guantanamo you came home, What did you feel when you saw your wife and children? - To be honest was for nearly one year. I'm not believe it's the truth. I wasn't believed this is my wife and this my kids not true. I was thinking I'm not drugs or it's a brainwash or something not real. And sometime until today, or sometime happened to me again. Interviewer: Wait, who was on the plane with you When you left Guantanamo? - The plane with me was alternant general. Australian official is from the alternant general, the same person he's saying never Habib, he gonna have a dollar from Australia for bullshit, the same person he is assigned for me now recently, to pay me some amount of money for apology, the same person he fly with me from Guantanamo Bay to here. I had to talk with this guy, and I just to try to make my wife believe what I said is the truth, in front of him. I said, is did Australia torture me? I say, yes, but this is off record. Say why off record, that Mr. Habib. We settled the case with you today. Send this money and give it to me. It's not settling the case, but give me my dignity. But I want you to tell in front of my wife, did you see me, I am fear? Say now, that when you was in the fly with Joe Maguli was Joe Maguli next to you and the fly was a private fly because that's why they put me in the past because I was kidnapped. They can't take me in the military ones. Like David Hicks and the others. All right, now he was inside the flight. He even scared to come out the door of the flight. I have two guard behind me and another one was sniper. And one right in the back was a sniper. And say, if you turn the face, we shoot you in the head. And I did tell my face, he doesn't shoot me in my head. And I told the, I asked him this question from my wife said, "The guy told me if you turn your face, you're going to shoot me in my head." Say yes. And I said, "Did I turn my head?" He say "Yes." So you say, you think I fear? I'm not fear. Interviewer: Were you shackled on the plane going home? - No, no way in the world. This is Magalia asked if I'd done any crime in shackled. That's mine say, this is my dignity. That's what I got a dignity for me because I haven't done any crime. They can shackle me because I have no case against me. And this is what Australia until today suffering. They was trying to say Habib done crime, but I haven't, they done crime, I haven't. Interviewer: When you landed with your wife, she'll be waiting for you there? - Yeah, it was a lot of media coverage and people white. But this story, because Australian say, oh, it doesn't mean Mr. Habib came in and having been a charge. This mean he's not guilty, bare rubbish. But now we find out the old corrupt from the Prime Minister to everybody, they are corrupt criminal. They lot of people, victim of the corruption, but did there this to honest people. Interviewer: If I was going to ask you if it's possible and might not be, but if it's possible, we ask, if we form a detainee is question, what might've been the worst experience you had in Guantanamo? Is it possible for you to pick something that shows the worst of what you experienced? - In Guantanamo Bay, to me it's a second experience. Cause the first experience was Egypt, I think was Pakistan. But Pakistan as is, is a beginner. And I was believing Pakistan is not gonna be longer. But when I went to Egypt, this, I forgot all about itself. Now I'm there and that other person, and this is what I count myself, I die in this time, I did die in this time. Then when I finish and to tell you experience is worst experience to give you is playing with your mind, brainwashed. It's the worst. It is because there's a mentally or your life stick with you. Cause they did play with my mind. And it's, it's a, I don't know what they did with others, because in Guantanamo Bay a lot of people, they get distressed because with a darkness, no sleep and is no sleep, make you a really aggressive person. It's until now I am. Sometime I get angry because for no sleep sometime I couldn't sleep because I feel myself as it's not the same, it's come back for me, but it's not the issue. But the brain wash to make you different person who you are. This is harder that to get your person back, it's not easy, it will take you all your life. And that's what they did. They brainwash, brainwash is not easy and they give you different. They try to put you and a different person than what you are. Interviewer: I understand you have to leave in about five minutes. - Yes thank you. Interviewer: Is there something you'd like to say in closing or something I didn't ask you that you would like to share with us. - Well, what I've tried to tell you or not tell the world, is any government, as my experience, they're not interested about public, they're interested about themselves, they're criminal, they do crime. They doesn't mean the crime. How much cost or how much worse, much harm, main thing they make money and to make it as what they wanna do for their own benefit. They doesn't believe in the humanity. And as I said in the beginning, Jack Thomas has been in a country in Afghanistan. He is a fighter. He was a leader of the Column Amir. And the same council, Alistro Adam the same one he order and he had me over to the Egyptian and hand me over to the Guantanamo Bay. The same person he done the birthday party for this guy and he was wrong. He was threatened the world, he make him birthday party and make him contact his lawyer in Australia. And they send him back in Australia, not in Guantanamo Bay, say, see what the issue is? A dive he takes to make them as an Australian hero. It doesn't matter, are you white or black, or whatever. Maybe all you have a worry about the Australian people more than these people, I did not believe. Or that's what I believe myself, because I ate in this hand, this country, in this land, I live with these people. I don't have to be do any crime, doesn't mean I have nothing against you until you harm me. But if you touch me, I broke your arm. If you go to me, I kiss your hand. That's what it is. You touch my family, I'm not gonna let you go. But if you go to me, whatever you want from me, I give you, I don't know what religion are you. They're not interested to my religion ever you believe and anyone fight behind the religion is a liar. Religion, till you fight for your land, for your home, for your wife, for your kids. Does until you fight because you want something from somebody. All right, respect. I respect the land where I am because this land keep me, and I respect the law of this land because I live in this land. But if this land doesn't respect me, I'll have to fight back in a law what the play with. I say play because it's not true, it's not law. Australian country playing is a law, but they don't have the law. The playing game with the system, they kidnapped me. They tried to accuse me. But I win, in the end of the story, because of you and the other people, they believe I haven't done anything wrong. After how long I prove myself now is over 10 years, I've been fight for it. The guy in Canada, only for nine months, they get $10 million for just few months torture. I've been for four years and God know how torture I have. They know themselves. They admit what I've been through. They make me paralyze, but I'm not about the money, about the dignity. Dignity never is a waste of money. They waste anything, you can't get it with dignity. And that's what it is, the truth. And this is what we after the truth. And that's why I'm saying, I must stand up with a very loud voice, and I tell the world, I can fight any government because I'm honest and I'm better on the Prime Minister even Obama himself. I call him as a liar sometimes ago, we would say, why not give him a chance? He's the guy who started saying no, because he know he is not gonna do what he say. He signed agreement where soon he stepped in the government, he said, "Close Guantanamo bay." I said, he can't close Guantanamo Bay because he can afford it, because whatever, come from Guantanamo Bay the make people, fight against America, all their life. Because if the guy 10 months old, he's taken in Guantanamo Bay accusing as a terrorist, this guy, he gonna come back out of Guantanamo Bay he gonna fight again for his life. Cause he lost his life. And he sees mom in Guantanamo Bay raped for no reason because America want that or the Prime Minister want that. And he close his eye he turn his face and say, yeah, yeah, the terrorist and not truth. People is not gonna let him go. That's why he can't close Guantanamo Bay. And I'm honest I said the truth. This is why they media respect me. He is a liar, did he close Guantanamo Bay? Checkup in the media checkup Habib what he say about Obama. When he start say Obama never gonna close Guantanamo Bay because he can't afford it to close Guantanamo Bay. I know better than him. I know the world, I see too much, but the world doesn't know much. You doesn't know. That's why I'm talking to you today. That's why I come all the way. It doesn't matter cost, but how much to release for you and for us, people still believe because that's me and you. We not live in a jungle. We call ourself a human being is different between the human being and the animal, big different. The animal they get his, what he wants by fighting. You take what he wants by tongue, because animal can't express his feeling by tongue. It could express his feeling by hand. We not use our hand until we need our hand. And that's what I tried to tell the world is it's not really, as my issue, people have to decide who's right and who's wrong for themselves and the end of the story, America never believe any Prime Minister, who try to help you out. He tried to help himself. He tried to help his pocket to try to get a much, much good time for himself the soon he stay in the parliament house or in the state in a house of the government under the money of the government. He tried to enjoy himself. He doesn't care about what anybody else they lie. Interviewer: Wow! I wish we could go on but we have to end so I wanna thank you. And you need to take 20 seconds of quiet for Johnny, the filmmaker to just have room tone. So if you wouldn't mind. - All right. Film maker: Picking room tone. (indistinct) Interviewer: Thank you, sir.