Ruth Spalding Boyd: And I had just never thought of living anywhere else. And my mother and father, of course were, living at that time. Once my husband got a job offer to go to Raleigh to work with the recreation department and I said, "Well, whatever you want to do." He said, "You know what? I think I better stay here because you need to be near your mom and dad." I said, "I sure do." And I was so glad he didn't take that job. Because I didn't want to go to Raleigh to live. And I stayed here because my father was sick for seven years bedridden. And my mother of course was taking care of him and I did what I could. And he died at age eighty-six. 

Ruth Spalding Boyd: My mother lived to be ninety-two and I looked after her after that. She was not sick but two months, and at the time she took sick, I could not handle her. So she had to go in a nursing home. But I did everything else for her. What I could. And I don't regret not having left Durham. I'm very active in my church, always have been. I think my daddy carried me to church when I was about six weeks old. My momma said, "She too young to go to church." But when I did start going, I liked it and I'm still active. I taught Sunday school for twenty-five years and I've better. And I'm still active. I don't teach Sunday school, but I still attend Sunday school at church every Sunday if I can. That's it. 

Ruth Spalding Boyd: And speaking of sickness, I retired because of my illness. I have rheumatoid and osteoarthritis and I was having so many problems until my doctor suggested that I stopped work. And when I did, said he was so glad that I did stop so I could move as I felt like moving. And I'm still able to move, which I'm very grateful for. 

Serena Rhodie: What was that first church, your father— 

Ruth Spalding Boyd: White Rock Baptist Church where I'm still a member. 

Serena Rhodie: Okay. Yeah. Were you active in any other organizations besides Sunday school? 

Ruth Spalding Boyd: Oh yes. Board of Christian Education. I was vice president for a number of years. And I sang in the choir for a little while. As a child I sang in the junior choir and when I got grown I stopped singing in the junior choir but I didn't join senior choir until late years. Then when I joined and got arthritis, I had problems with my throat and I had to get out of the choir. People tell me now when they hear me, "You ought to be in the choir." I say, "Why yes, I used to be in the choir." And right now I chairman of the scholarship committee by the church. Chairman of nominate committee of the church officers of the church, and a trustee and these are officers. 

Serena Rhodie: Can you describe Durham during the height of Hayti? 

Ruth Spalding Boyd: Ooh that was it. Well, they had so many businesses. We could get a printing done. And of course, got a lot of times the location was near the other printing office. There were restaurants, theaters. We had two Black theaters within two blocks of each other. The Wonderland Theater, the Regal Theater. The donut shop was a very lovely place you could go for meals. They had a hotel I couldn't go to. Well, I just wasn't allowed to go to the hotel unless it was certain people that were having something there. 

Ruth Spalding Boyd: For example, the pharmacist lived there in the hotel for a while before he found a house to live in. And he had a birthday party for their daughter. I went there then. But there were some places I just wasn't allowed to go. We had drug stores and we two was in my walking from home to church. Where I could stop and spend my pennies from Sunday school if I so chose to do so. And a lot of times I would save my Sunday school money. When I got Sunday school, I'd save a few pennies so I could go back to the grocery store in between Sunday school and church and buy something. 

Ruth Spalding Boyd: We had a cleaners, the grocery stores. But there were two grocery stores within one block of each other. And Hayti was just home. My father paired me with him everywhere he went. Always. I was the little girl, and I followed my daddy. And if he was going to the pool room to play pool, he would say, "Stand right here until I come out." And I'd stand right outside the pool room. Nobody would bother me. And they used to say people were so bad in in Hayti, but they were not that bad. 

Ruth Spalding Boyd: And they knew you. They protected you. And I felt that because my father was very friendly to people and people knew him, and nobody ever bothered me. They did bother some girls that would be found in Hayti. But I think because of my father, they didn't bother me. It was just a closeness to me. Doctor's offices, barbershops, there were so many businesses that were displaced and misplaced and went out of business because of the big guys. Turned down. We lived in Hayti and my family, mother and father, had to move. 

Ruth Spalding Boyd: They moved in '64 because they were getting ready to tear down that house. And my daddy had always said he wasn't going anywhere, when they started talking about urban renewal. "I ain't going nowhere but the Beechwood Cemetery." And I said, "Don't say that daddy." So I saw this house and I said to the lady, I said, "I heard you thinking about buying another house?" She said, "I'm thinking about it." I said, "Well tell me something. I want you to do me a favor. When you decide that you are going to get another house, let me know so I can think about getting this house for my mom and daddy." So I guess it wasn't three months after that and she called me, she said, "Boyd, I think we are going build a house and sell this one." I said, "well, honey, tell me how much you want for it." 

Ruth Spalding Boyd: And she told me. And we worked it out. Urban renewal paid my mother and daddy about five-hundred dollars more than she charged for house that she was selling. So that five-hundred dollars took care of the moving expenses. And of course we had lived in a nine room house. So there were a lot of things that they had to get rid of because this was just a four room house. And that was all they needed, just the two of them. My mother and father had had roomers and boarders all my life. And I guess that's one thing that helped me to know a lot of people. People that lived with us were mostly North Carolina Mutual. And the boarders were mostly North Carolina Mutual company boarders. They lived in a what they call a clerk's home. A big, big, big house. And I guess there were twenty of them were women. And those that didn't want to cook would come and eat with my mom regularly. 

Ruth Spalding Boyd: And when my daddy found out they were going to have to move, "But what about my roomers and boarders?" I said, "You won't have anymore. You will be just you and Mama." I said, "It's time for Mama to stop work anyway." So that's what happened. And when he got over there in that little four room house, he said, "I should have been here ten years ago." He was crazy about this small house with just the two of them. Because I never lived in a house with just the family until I moved to Durham. I was born in about at 1003 Fayetteville Street and we had roomers there. We moved to 605 Fowler Avenue when I was eight years old. A bigger house than we had. We had roomers and boarders, and most of the time I had a roommate. And then when I moved here, for the first time I was ever in the house with just three of us family. 

Serena Rhodie: During that time what was your extent of contact with other— 

Ruth Spalding Boyd: Other what? 

Serena Rhodie: Other races? 

Ruth Spalding Boyd: Races? 

Serena Rhodie: Mm-hmm. 

Ruth Spalding Boyd: Well as I say, as a child, the only White girl that I played with was this—the man in the meat department at this grocery store, he would bring his little girl down and she would come around and we would play. And we just played just like anybody else. Just the two of us. And I don't know whatever happened to her. As they, of course, closed that store, and I never heard anything about the family anymore after that. But now there's one man in Durham, White man, who still knows me from those days. He worked at this store and every time I see him, "Hey, there Ru." "Hi you, Mr. Burton." He's still very friendly. What happened to the other man— 

Serena Rhodie: How did people in the Black community relate to one another? 

Ruth Spalding Boyd: Well I think they did very well. If you lived next door to me and you needed an egg and you come over to borrow one, we'd lend it to you and vice versa. A cup sugar. I don't think people do that anymore. I don't know that they do. But very close I think. Now we lived across the street from a cousin of his and I didn't know until I was grown that they were first cousins. There was brother and sister children. They were just cousins and we were close to them but I didn't know we were kin, the closeness in the kinship, until I was grown. But we were still, and until I was grown now. In my father's family there were 14 children. And this particular cousin of his who lived across the street was born in Durham, lived in Durham. 

Ruth Spalding Boyd: And my father had a child, Alanzo. He had three brothers and sisters here in Durham and we were very close to them. Oh I was the youngest grandchild in the family that lived in Durham and I was the baby. We all were just very close as a family as well as neighborly. If you lived across the street and you saw me doing something I wasn't supposed to be doing, then you told mama and mama took care of it. And then mama told daddy, daddy really took care of it. And we had a lot of teachers that ate with us, and they would come home from school and tell what I did at school and I knew I was going to get it then. So I didn't do too much at school just because I didn't want a whipping when they told it at home. But I call that really close knit. 

Serena Rhodie: And what was some of the repercussions of the tension between the campus students and the city students? 

Ruth Spalding Boyd: They just acted so different to us. As if to say, "You can do something that I can't do and I don't like you." There were, as I say, a few that I became very close with. And one of the girls invited me to go home with her one weekend. And so to my surprise, my mother let me go. She didn't know her parents, anything. And we are still friends. And this other girl that I was real friendly with, was very friendly with my husband. And she's the one that would tell me messages from him, send friendly messages from him. And we are still friendly. But they just felt like, we thought we were more because we could do more than they could. 

Ruth Spalding Boyd: Because the dean was hard on us as well as them. And I thought, "Well really, there's not a closeness, I don't think now, of the children who stayed in there." Durham and on campus is not a close feeling for the city students. I know with me it's not, as to contributing to the college. Because there was such a difference that they made with us. As an Alumni, I feel I should. And I should contribute more but I don't feel that close to it because the dean made us. And speaking of the dean, the dean's niece and I were roommates, when I stayed on campus for one semester. In home economics you had to live on the campus in the practice cottage and learn to keep house. And her niece and I were roomates. We were roommates. And that didn't damage but it didn't help that much. 

Serena Rhodie: What were the social activities that went on? What could they do? 

Ruth Spalding Boyd: They could do anything on the campus, but it had to be done before six o'clock. I mean, the doors locked. And if they went to ball game, of course they had permission to do that. That was right there on campus. But they were so restrictive. They couldn't go to this place called College Inn or College Grill. They weren't allowed to go. They weren't allowed to. I think the movies, there was some restriction even with the movies. And at that time we had to go upstairs. Have you ever been to Carolina Theater since you've been here? Well, they had three stories and we were up in the top. The Blacks had to sit up there. 

Ruth Spalding Boyd: And the campus girls, if they could go to the movies, there was a certain time that they still had you back on that camp at a certain time. And they just felt we could go anytime we wanted to. And I guess they were jealous of us. And then we were hurt because, since they restricted us a certain part of the campus. In other words, if you are from the city, you go in that room right there in that building. And you all can eat your lunch in there. You couldn't go in the cafeteria. 

Serena Rhodie: So they had to have parties during the day? 

Ruth Spalding Boyd: I don't know if they had any party. We didn't. Not in day time. We would play Pinochle. We go in that room and play cards at our lunch hour sometimes. But there weren't many parties going on. 

Serena Rhodie: You mentioned that the cattle had a ball? 

Ruth Spalding Boyd: They had a dance, yeah. Yeah. Well now that was once a year and that was on campus. Well chaperoned. In the gym. In one of the gym, old camp—they didn't have more than one a year. 

Serena Rhodie: What issue do you think was most important to the community? 

Ruth Spalding Boyd: What issue now? 

Serena Rhodie: Back then. 

Ruth Spalding Boyd: Back then? I guess we thought that integration was going to help us. And I guess that's why we tried to push for integration. I can't see where it has done that much, although it has made us aware that people are people, whatever race you are. And I've sort of always felt that I got the same kind of blood in my body that you got in yours, whatever color you are, I've got 'em. And it doesn't matter. The schools were unequal. Because it really hurt you to see you sitting up in an old desk that came from a White school, and dirty books that they had used, sent to us. It really hurt then, and it wasn't right. Segregation is the biggest issue. 

Serena Rhodie: How did Hayti feel with the idea of urban renewal? 

Ruth Spalding Boyd: Terrible, terrible. And the thing about it, since urban renewal, we had found out that there were certain people who reaped some of the benefits from that. That they got money out of it. Now how? I don't know. But everybody didn't. And then there were some areas that were left out that supposed to have been rehabilitated and they were not. I've got a friend who fought to get her neighborhood rehabilitated because they promised it to start with. And she led the fight in her neighborhood and finally won and they were able to relocate and tear down those little shacks they were living in. And one of those people in that area was the famous Ernie Barnes, who was an artist. He was a football player, at Central, and he went on to play professional football, and now he's an artist. A lot of fame [INTERRUPTION]. 

Serena Rhodie: You were talking about urban renewal and that— 

Ruth Spalding Boyd: Oh and this what I was going to say, this neighborhood, finally this girl got the city to go through with what they promised, and they were able to relocate. See, now people were real upset at first, real upset. And I think some of them were still upset more, when they found out that some of the people got money from this change. And these are people like city council members. I have no proof, but this is the only thing I've heard since [indistinct 00:25:42]. And some people got more than others when they bought the houses. And well, it's something I understand that happens in communities. That they go through and do this urban renewal and some people come out on the short end. I guess that's part of life too. 

Serena Rhodie: Were the councilmen, they were from Hayti? 

Ruth Spalding Boyd: Well they were, yes. Yeah, they were Black. 

Serena Rhodie: How did the community value education? 

Ruth Spalding Boyd: Very much so. Very much so. A lot of people in Durham went to North Carolina College and I went there because I couldn't have gone anywhere else. My daddy said, "You either go walk down the street or you don't go anywhere." And my mama said, "But they're going to college." And she insisted and we went where we could go. He could not afford to send us away. And at that time, there were no such things as grants and scholarships available. But we were always encouraged in my family, that we got to have a college education. 

Ruth Spalding Boyd: And when it came to my son I said, "Well he's got to live his own life." And he decided. And there's no point in me breaking up and crying because he's not going to college. And as long as the ultimate goal in life is to have a job, make a living. And that was what I was concerned with him, which is what he's doing. He stayed away from here nine years. And he and his wife separated. And he had two children and I said, "You better come on back home and stay." And that's what he did. But you have to support your children. 

Serena Rhodie: Was the community very politically active? 

Ruth Spalding Boyd: Some were. My father was not active politically but he always voted. My uncle who was CC's father, he was the founder of the Durham Committee on the Advancement of Black people in Durham. And naturally, very political. My uncle was not that active in the Durham committee, although he went sometimes. But he didn't play a big part. Another uncle wasn't active at all in politics of Durham. In fact he was more or less to himself. Then another uncle that was here moved away in the 1940 to New York hoping for better opportunities. He worked at North Carolina Mutual and they are very low paying company, very low paying. And he wanted to do a little bit better. 

Ruth Spalding Boyd: And his youngest son had finished college so they decided they would move to New York. He went there, and put his age back ten years. And when he got to seventy-five he was just retiring. Because he had put his age back ten years. But he was able to do well up there. Yeah. His son, oldest son, operators a laundromat, dry cleaners. I'm sure. You know anything about Brooklyn? 

Serena Rhodie: A little. 

Ruth Spalding Boyd: What is it? Bedford-Stuyvesant area. Did they tear down and build? 

Serena Rhodie: I'm not sure. 

Ruth Spalding Boyd: You don't know about that. Okay. Well, it was something that happened in that area and that's when their business closed up. And they lived in one of those brownstone in Brooklyn and they moved out of that into—they don't call them condominiums in New York. What they call them? 

Serena Rhodie: Co-op? 

Ruth Spalding Boyd: Co-op. 

Serena Rhodie: Oh. 

Ruth Spalding Boyd: They call it a co-op. 

Serena Rhodie: How active was the NAACP? In Durham? 

Ruth Spalding Boyd: Say very active. Very active in Durham. But I've always thought they didn't recruit enough to get new members. They have representatives. They did have representatives in all the churches. And a person in our church would always get me to join in the NAACP. But I never attended the meetings. I joined. And then when this man died, nobody bothers to recruit you to join. As I told you previously, that I'm active in the church and my energy is at a low level and I can't do so much. So that is not my priority, to be active physically. But they have done some good, in fact they've done a lot. 

Ruth Spalding Boyd: And I know the George Frazier who was president at one time, they did quite a bit under his administration. And I'm not sure what they're doing now too much, but the general committee is the political group that sees to it that we choose the right candidates to vote for. For two weeks now they having meetings to meet the candidates, and last night there was a meeting in my church and the candidates were there to give interviews and questions. And they make their decision and they issue the little slip of paper to tell you who to vote for when you get to the poll. 

Ruth Spalding Boyd: And I use my own judgment, nobody tells me who to vote for. I look at the slip and see what they suggest, but I know who I'm going vote for, whether what they say or not. Because it's a free country. And my mother was one of the first women to vote when women had the privilege to vote. And she used to love to tell that she was one of the first ones to vote. She was living in Savannah, Georgia, at that time and she was so proud of it. And we always felt proud that we could vote and did vote. A lot of people nowadays don't think it does any good. I said, "Well if you stay home it doesn't do any good either." 

Serena Rhodie: What were some of the things that the NAACP did? 

Ruth Spalding Boyd: Well they encourage people to do the right thing. I'll put it like that. Whatever it was. And I think the biggest thing has been integration. Because a lot of people now wondering if it was the right thing because it's put us back a lot. Some of the things. 

Serena Rhodie: Right. How do you feel? 

Ruth Spalding Boyd: Well I feel like we Black teachers, did a better job of educating our Black children than the White teachers were doing educating them. Some of them, I should say. I taught next to a White teacher. She didn't have any discipline at all and was afraid to discipline children. And this little boy, one day I passed the room, he was sitting there on top of the desk, turned around looking out the window. Class was going out for physical ed, and I came back, it wasn't that long. I said to her, "Excuse me. May I see Gary?" "Gary, what are you sitting that window looking out the window for?" "She told me not to just say." I said, "But you're not learning anything. Why?" "She told me to turn around." I said, "Listen, I'm going to tell your mom." I said, "You came to school and learn, not to sit here and look out that window and do nothing." 

Ruth Spalding Boyd: So I went to the office that afternoon and called his mother and told her. She wanted to know why did I call? I said, "Well, I'll tell you. I called because I'm Black and he's Black and you Black and I'm interested in Gary." "Why didn't his teacher call?" I said, "I can't tell you why his teacher didn't call." I wasn't going to say she's White. I didn't know. So that next day, the teacher came to me, she said, "What am I going to do?" I said, "You're going to have to learn to be firm with Gary and the rest of them and let them know you mean business. You're not going to sit there and let them cut up and then let them look out the window. That's not teaching them anything." 

Ruth Spalding Boyd: I said, "." She learned though. She was nice to them all, but she wasn't firm and to let them know she meant to do what she told them to do. And I don't know if it helped her or not, but I hope it did. She stayed right there in that same classroom until she retired. And Gary right now, if I see him, "Hey Ms. Boyd. Hey Ms. Boyd." I think he appreciated it as he got older. And I knew, I didn't know his mother, but I knew the lady who was a neighbor of his that would carry him to different scouting events, and I had seen her with him and I knew she would appreciate it. 

Ruth Spalding Boyd: And in fact I called her and got Gary's mama's number from her to tell her. And Gary, seemingly, has turned out to be a nice young fellow. But that's one of the things I guess NAACP has done to try to create an independence upon yourself. Get people off welfare, encourage them to do for themselves. Then first it start committed and telling you who to vote for. I've never gone along with it, but it does help [INTERRUPTION]. 

Serena Rhodie: Okay. What was another function of the Durham committee? Did they only do the voting? 

Ruth Spalding Boyd: Mainly the voting. And I guess maybe with the businesses, they might have given advice or something because there was the Black businesses involved in that. I never attended but two meetings. But that's the main thing, they keep you abreast of the voting and the candidates. 

Serena Rhodie: What were other kind of where integration kind of failed in the school system? Where else did you see the— 

Ruth Spalding Boyd: Well, I can't say that anywhere else. It opened up until we've got Black people that go to White churches. Members of White churches that their prerogative. We've got Whites that have joined the Black churches. Because we had a couple that joined our church. They moved here from—where I went somewhere. And we didn't know why they wanted to join with us. And everybody said, "They writing a book. They writing a book." But I couldn't say why they joined. And it so happened though, I found out later, that there had been a mental breakdown. One of the parents, he had a mental breakdown. And I don't know if there was a weakness there or just what, but eventually that couple divorced. And eventually they went back together. They remarried and then they divorced. Separated and divorced again. Okay. 

Serena Rhodie: How has the community changed during your lifetime? Regards to the physical appearance? 

Ruth Spalding Boyd: Well, I think there are some sections that are much more beautiful. And the homes, certainly some of them are larger, more spacious. I don't know that there is as much closeness as neighbors because people are in such a busy world. We don't have time to visit like we used to. I know when I was a child, my father used to carry me to visit the sick all the time [INTERRUPTION]. 

Serena Rhodie: You were talking about how Durham changed— 

Ruth Spalding Boyd: Yeah. There isn't as much in-home visitation I'm sure because of the change in times. I don't think there's any less caring, as far as looking after people and remembering people. Now in our community, we have a organization we started shortly after we moved over here. And each family pays so much dues per year. And if there is a death in the family or illness, we do something for the members. Carry food, the usual things that people do when there's a need in the home. Carry food to the home and serve dinner as a gift, unless they going to the church. But it's just a change in time, that people just don't have time to do what they used to do or don't take time. And it's something that we really need to remember. That people are people and they need people. 

Serena Rhodie: How do you think its change? In regards to wisdom? 

Ruth Spalding Boyd: I think it's a little more acceptance of each other. That fellow that just called, he said this White fellow that works with him was talking about going get some club. And he says, "You better let me check that. Because you might not be accepted going to that night club because you White." He said, "You let me check with some Black folks. Let's see if it's all right for you to go." So he was trying to locate somebody who knew something about this club. I don't know anything about it either. But I guess you just have to know how to deal with people and remember that people are people. 

Serena Rhodie: Okay. Is there anything in particular that you'd just like to talk about that you feel is important, that we haven't so far? 

Ruth Spalding Boyd: Well, I can't think of anything special. But it's important to remember, I think, that we are all here for a purpose. And we need to try to do something in life to make someone happy. For us to be happy. Well, I know that's what makes me happy. When I can do something to make somebody else happy. And I've been that way, because I started off, as I say, with my daddy visiting people all my life, where there was sickness and death. And I'm not afraid of people. I like people and I just enjoy doing it. My life is not my own because if someone were to call and say, "Right now, I need you to do so and so," I would—