Man: Okay, good afternoon.
-: Good afternoon
Man: We are very grateful to you
for participating in the Witness to Guantanamo Project.
We invite you to speak
of your experiences at Guantanamo and Bay Cuba.
And we're hoping to gather your stories and the testimonies
of those of other men who have been brought to Guantanamo.
We are creating an archive of the stories
so that people in America and in the world
will have a better understanding
of what you and others have endured.
Future generations must know what happened
and by telling your story you're contributing to history.
We appreciate and thank you
for your courage and willingness to speak to us.
If at any time you would like to take a break
please tell us and we will stop.
If at any time you say something
that you would like to remove,
just tell us and we will remove it.
-: Okay.
Man: If there's any question you don't wanna answer
please tell us,
anything you would like, we will always participate
and always do that.
-: Okay.
Man: Okay, and I'd like to begin
with some basic information including your name,
and if you can tell me your nationality,
and if you have any family, if you don't have to tell me,
but if you want to and if you wanna tell me your language
what your languages and your religion
whatever you'd like to tell me,
but we'd like a little information about you.
-: Yeah okay, my name is Zakir Jan,
and the last name is Asam,
and my nationality is Uzbek.
And I have a daughter and I have family.
Actually I had,
and what else...
and I am Muslim,
what else, 38 years old,
Man: 38.
-: 38.
Man: And can you tell us
when you first arrived in Guantanamo and when you left?
-: I arrived from Guantanamo on 16th of June, 2002.
that was the first made step
on the ground on Guantanamo.
Man: Okay, and you were released in when?
-: In 2006, 17th of November.
Man: Okay, and I'm just curious how
before we go into some background,
why were you sent to Albania?
Do you know anything about why they sent you to Albania?
-: Just have a general idea because US government
can keep monitoring on us, by keeping in Albania,
because Albania follows all the instruction from US.
I think that's the point we were sent here.
Man: And you knew there were wiggles here when you came?
-: Yeah, I knew.
Man: We would like to begin by asking you
to tell us your story
on how you were arrested and where you were taken
and what happened to you before you came to Guantanamo?
Could you tell us some of that?
-: Yeah, I was living in Afghanistan.
And when U.S. Air Force starts bombarding Kunduz,
and some people on some cars came,
and tell us to leave a village
because that village will be bombarded
and we escape a mountain,
and we spent there night and day.
And next time, next day, some commanders
and legal commanders were searching the mountain,
and they were taking people from mountain
to clarify who they are.
And they picked me from the place
and brought me to one village,
like a castle, but it wasn't a real castle.
And, I was kept there,
and they informed me if I need to go, if I need my freedom
I should pay them 3,000 US dollars,
because I am their prey.
So I couldn't pay.
And they told me that they're going to sell me
to US force because they are looking for people,
for foreigns, for Afghanistan and they are purchasing them.
Man: And do you, who were these people
who said they would sell you if you didn't pay?
-: They were armed commanders but illegal commanders
Man: Afghani?
-: Afghan people yes, they were Afghan,
but they were opposites of Taliban, yeah.
Man: And then how soon after were you sold?
-: In the, I think in the beginning 2000, in the May,
in the beginning of May, 2002,
I was sold to US force.
Man: And between the time
you were grabbed. -: I was.
Man: And the time you were sold,
you were in the castle.
-: Yes I was in the castle.
Man: Were you mistreated while you were there?
-: Yeah, that was very bad treatment to us.
I couldn't live underground,
because they kept us in underground,
and we left twice for our personnel needs.
Man: And who were you with?
-: They were one Arab and other,
were Pakistan from Pakistan, they were.
Man: Were they all sold to America too?
-: Yep, all of them, all of us.
Man: And when Americans took over,
what did they do with you?
-: They picked me from Kunduz to Mazar-e Sharif
and, I spent the three days then they sent me,
but I saw very bad a treatment there.
And I was kept in one castle.
And I spent there three days.
Then they picked me to airplane
and, i was sent sent to Bagram.
Man: Could you describe the treatment
that they did to you before you were sent to Bagram?
-: We worked 24 hours during of the day and chuckles,
even our legs were in chuckles, so we couldn't move fast
because that chuckles on our legs doesn't let us move fast.
Man: Were you dressed?
-: Yeah I were dressed yes.
Man: Did you wear a mask or?
-: During, after transport yes.
Man: And what happened at Bagram?
-: And they picked me to Bagram,
and I was treated as very badly,
because, they put a black bag on my head,
and they just close my eyes
with tape, even when I couldn't see anything
and they cut off my clothes,
they were four soldiers were holding me,
and one of them with a scissors cut off my clothes,
and when I, when they opened my eye,
when my eyes, I saw a front of me
only a woman soldiers, only woman soldiers
they were laughing at me.
That's that was very bad.
So according my religion to stand front of a woman,
absolutely naked,
that was insulting my religion,
offending my religion, but I couldn't say any word,
because two of those soldiers were standing
in front of me to be ready to beat me.
Even I couldn't move my with my eyes.
That was very bad.
And I didn't understand the time,
because I hoped justice from US,
because USA to just, the country of justice.
And that time, I didn't understand that my idea
about US was wrong.
Man: Did you know why they were holding you?
-: They want to change my clothes,
and they didn't let me do and to behind some something,
but they were afraid of me because, yes.
Man: I'm sorry,
-: Because they had information on people
all foreign people in Afghanistan are terrorist.
And I think there is some security rules
to treat for people like that.
Man: Did they tell you they thought you were a terrorist?
-: No, they didn't say anything
because they hadn't interpreter.
By the time i didn't understand Farsi.
They say something Farsi and English,
but I didn't understand both.
Man: And what do you think would happen to you?
-: And then I was taken to another room
on the absolutely isolated and that I spent there,
my hand was behind me, was closing,
my hand was in chuckles again,
and then my head was covered by a bag,
and I spent the night
Man: And then?
-: And then they, in the end of that night,
they brought me a food, plastic food,
and during of that food of meal,
they pick my bag from my head,
they let me eat something.
And then there was my head again with black bag.
And, I think one of interrogator came to interrogate me
and he starts to yell in Farsi something,
I couldn't understand any words of him.
And I said I don't understand anything.
And I spent another day there.
I think in the end of that day,
in the beginning of the evening,
I was sent to a regular room.
They were about 10 people.
And, I went there.
Man: Did you have a better understanding?
Did the other people tell you what was going on?
Did you know about 9/11,
you must have known about 9/11 then, right?
-: Yes, I heard about it.
Man: And did the other people tell you
why they were there or what was going on?
-: No, because that was prohibited to speak each other.
Man: And how long were you in Bagram
before they sent you to Guantanamo?
-: I spent there for 14 days.
But after third day,
no, after a third investigation, interrogation,
they tortured me, they beat me,
and I had the operation after that.
I was into hospital, military hospital
and I had the operation there,
but they didn't change a treatment.
Man: Could you describe what they did when (mumbles)
-: Okay, in the end of third interrogation,
one of that interrogator came into the room
and they start to yell at me by translating
but there was a big translator.
I couldn't say that was translator.
He couldn't understand some Uzbek words.
Even he couldn't separate kidney with liver.
He said, "you have problems on your liver,
"you should have the operation."
Even he was so fool,
he couldn't say kidney.
I said, okay.
And that day, in the end of that interrogation,
interrogator entered
into the room and they start to yell that I have given
during of three interrogation, three different information.
I said, if you're so brief, if you're so smart, prove it.
I was saying, he was taking notes,
show me there's differences.
He couldn't show, that was the trick of their investigation.
And I said, okay, prove it.
I'll take everything, you're wrong.
And he said, we'll see, that's the beginning
of your black days, dark days,
you know what they mean dark days?
And I said, okay,
they still put the bag on my head.
And I didn't know where they were taking me.
When I stepped into the door
step into the room, I felt something very heavy thing
in my stomach.
That's gave me very hard
and my breath, and what you remember then
I think three or some more movement.
I was going into my body
and I lost the concentration,
that was all, why I should remember.
And when I open my eye, I was in separated room
and two soldiers enter into the room.
They start pushing me still,
pressing me to do what they say.
And my body was shaking of pain.
I said, I cannot do.
And they get until the end.
I lost everything, I couldn't control myself.
And then when I come back, when I opened my eyes
I was in separated room, but in small room.
And they came because they take my blood
for analyze, to analyze.
And they said, that I have to give it for test urine.
I said, why?
Through translator.
And then I said why?
Because we have to check something happen with you.
I said, okay, if you want to check, if not, you may die.
We may take you by force.
We may do everything to you by force.
I said, I refuse to give anything.
If I die here
you only say that I will be responsible for my death.
I need that, because you're doing everything over the rule,
over the law.
And they said, okay, we will force.
I said, try.
And then came on military doctor.
And he has taken some blood
by force, of course, I refuse to give anything.
And they said, I should be assigned to hospital.
If I refuse
they will be taking me by force.
I said, I refuse.
And I was taken to the hospital,
and they operate me there.
And they said, I lied because I didn't have any appendix.
And they said, I lied.
Then I said, I didn't say anything.
I didn't say I have appendix.
I said, just I had the pen.
And even Russia knows a first day of my...
Day in Guantanamo, I had a real bad swelling
and that swelling didn't go after operation.
They said, we cannot do anything.
But you lied to us.
I said, no, I didn't say anything.
I had the problems too.
And after four days
they sent me back to Bagram, to prisom,
I may say to camp.
They kept me four more days, four or five more days.
And they didn't pay attention
of my problems, of my health problems.
And they pick me to Kandahar.
I spend in Bagram 14 days.
Man: And the way you were treated in Bagram,
do you, once you went back to the cell four days later,
then they didn't torture you or mistreat you anymore
until you were sent to Kandahar?
-: No, they didn't say anything, but I was in separated room,
isolated room.
Man: Isolated?
-: Yes, isolated, and I spent there two days,
then I was taken to a regular room.
They will four or five people.
And I spend there two more days,
three more days, two, three more days.
And we were sent to come to Kandahar.
Man: And how did you endure that?
What were you thinking?
How would you survive?
Did think about how you might survive all this?
Did you do anything to help you survive?
-: No, nothing, absolutely nothing.
Man: What were you thinking?
Were you thinking of your family or thinking of any?
-: No, nothing.
Just, I need to get end of those tortures.
Man: That's all you were thinking.
-: Yes (mumbles)
Man: Did you think maybe you would lie
and give false testimony to get the end of it?
Well, anything you think
you would do anything possible just to end those tortures?
-: No, nothing, nothing.
Didn't come to my mind.
Only I think when it gets end.
I was waiting for that.
Man: You waited for that?
-: Yeah, because in the first of investigation
I ask for a lawyer
and they said, "you don't need any lawyer.
'This is military system, we can do anything,
whatever we want."
Man: And then when you went to Kandahar,
what happened there?
-: Absolutely nothing.
Even I wasn't taken to investigation.
They didn't say anything.
They didn't care about my health problems.
I spent there 29 days.
And then I sent to Guantanamo.
Man: And what were your health problems
while you were in Kandahar?
even I had teeth problems
and I had still problems with my stomach.
Man: Could you eat?
-: I complained many times.
No one take the attention.
No one took attention for my complains.
Man: Could you eat while you were?
-: Just a little bit.
Woman: Were they caused by the beatings?
-: Sorry?
Woman: Were your health problems caused?
-: Yeah, that was the cause of beating me.
Man: And so at Kandahar you weren't
as mistreated the same way you were in Bagram.
They left you alone in Kandahar,
is that what you're saying?
-: No, they even, they didn't take me to investigate.
Man: They didn't do any interrogation, nothing?
-: They didn't do anything.
Man: Were you in solitary, in Kandahar?
Or were you with other people in Kandahar?
Were you alone in solitary?
-: No, we were into the one big,
Man: One big room?
-: like a camp,
and we weren't there 13.
Man: And could you describe your trip
from Kandahar to Guantanamo?
-: And that was say,
from one time they pick about 40 people
to our airplane and we were treated very badly
because they kept our arm
with a thing like a wire, even you couldn't move.
If you try to move, it hurts, unpleasurable,
it was very hard.
And we were taken, our heads were covered by black bag.
And when we change airplane somewhere,
I don't know even,
after six hours, or for I think,
and they change airplane.
And they used to wear goggles, big goggles.
And they use gloves for our hands,
our legs and arms were chuckle again
our legs were chuckled on the floor.
Even when we couldn't go more than once two toilets.
When we asked something
they have give only one apple and one water bottle.
That's all what we had.
And was a little longer than 22 hours
and we went to Guantanamo.
Man: Where you giving injections
before you got on the plane
or any suppositories or anything,
did they give you any medication at all
before you got into plane?
-: No, just stick it, something on my neck,
that's all.
Man: And did you wear diapers?
-: Sorry?
Man: Did you wear diapers?
Did you have to wear diapers?
-: What kind of a diaper?
Man: A diaper?
-: What is diaper?
Woman: (mumbles)
-: Oh, like a Pampers, you mean?
No, they didn't do anything.
Man: And what happened?
Could you tell the story
of what happened when you were taken off the plane,
where they took you
and what that was like when you came to Guantanamo?
-: Yeah, (mumbles)
in Guantanamo, we were taken into the bus, special bus
and all the legs,
we were put on the floor,
but touching our forehead
to the shoulder of other people from the fast,
and even we couldn't move.
If someone has tried to move, they come and beat us.
We couldn't move.
And that was very, very bad treatment for us.
And they just beat us, nothing more.
If someone has tried to move,
to make any movement.
Man: And where did they take you?
-: They take me on some stones
and I think just taking longer than half hour
and we entered into the camp of Delta
and they put us under the sky
and we were waiting then.
Some of us more than six hours,
some of us, more than eight hours, 10 hours.
Man: And then?
-: And then we were taken into the medical building.
Again, they cut off everything from us, old clothes
and we had one minutes to take a shower.
And I was taken to investigation room
and I spent there longer than eight hours, with no reason.
Man: You were interrogated for eight hours?
-: I wasn't, that day I wasn't.
I spent there about six, eight hours
no one interrogate me and I was taken to block the day.
Man: Do you know which camp that was?
-: That was camp2 Mike block.
Man: And were you in with others in that camp?
-: Yeah, like cage, we were into the cage
that was two meter square room.
They had a metal bar.
Man: And then?
-: And the one small mattress
and two sheets and one blanket, that's all what we had.
Man: And when were you fully interrogated in Guantanamo?
Did it come soon after?
-: I was taken in the third day for interrogation,
and when I entered into the room,
I think you were first translator
during of my investigation.
Yeah, and the Russian was the first translator.
And I explained everything
and one of integrator said,
that's my older information.
doesn't submit with the other, what I have given.
But he was lying.
I didn't say anything wrong.
I didn't change any information.
What I said, I repeated, just nothing more.
And when I ask how long I be here
he said, "I cannot say anything, but maybe few weeks
"if you compromise with us, you'll go home
"after a few weeks."
I said, okay, but
Man: Did you believe them?
-: I didn't believe.
Man: Why not?
-: Because I was with no reason there.
Even when they ask why I am here, they couldn't answer me.
-: And were you mistreated while you were there,
in Guantanamo?
-: Yeah, when I tried to ask for my rights
and a second investigation,
second integration was very badly
and he said, "you need a room, your rights."
I said, yes.
And they have given my rights by sending to mental clinic.
Man: Could you describe exactly
how that interrogation worked
and how they ended up sending you
to a mental clinic and what happened?
Kinda tell the story about that whole thing?
-: Yeah, first time.
Sorry, I was sent for punish,
for punish block.
You know, they set a new,
and block November for punishment
and I was sent there.
And no one could explain to me, what's a reason.
And next day, when I complained about my situation
and why I was sent there and my interrogator
called Russian interpreter, and he said
as he promised me, he will give it to my rights.
He said, "that is is your right."
And that day I understood
that I was wrong by asking for my rights.
And after two days,
no, sorry, I spent there eight days with no reason
that they said I tried hurt myself.
How, I don't know.
They said they have found something in my room.
That was a lie.
That wasn't true.
And I was I sent to mental clinic.
I spent there a few days
then I was sent another time to another block.
And, but I was monitoring that, that time.
And I spent the one day
and one of soldier reported to DOC,
Detention Operating Center, that I want to hurt myself.
I was taken to punish block again,
that time for India block,
that work was for punishing detainees.
I was taken there, I spent three days,
three, four days
and I was sent back to another block, to Alpha block.
Man: So why did they keep doing that to you?
What do you think was going on?
-: Because I was lying, you know
You know, I wasn't giving a true information.
Man: That's what they said?
-: And they said, yes.
And because I asked for lawyer,
they said, "you don't need the lawyer."
Man: And that's why they put you in a mental block?
-: Yes, because I asked for my rights.
Man: And what can you describe
how it in the mental block?
What the experience was like and who else was there
and what you did all day?
-: First time
it's very difficult to remember by detail everything
because it was a long time ago and they'll bring you pills
samples, even they don't explain
what kind of pills they are feeding you.
Man: What are they (mumbles)
-: If you refuse, they will give you shot injection.
And because when I spent on special block a few weeks
I didn't understand
that they are treating with the people
worse than an animal,
because some animals are treaten better than humans,
human and other countries
because some detainees were taken by force for injection
when they keep doing injection after 20 days, they repeat.
After the third time you lost your mind.
Man: So what happened to you with the pills
and with the injections, what did happen to you?
-: First time, they tried to burn detainee on the bed.
They burn everything, and they gave you one injection
after the injection, even a human
doesn't need a life anymore, because he wants to die,
after that injection.
Man: What does it do to you?
What did that injection do?
-: That's very difficult for me
because all my body was shaking after that injection.
And I didn't understand
because they were threatening me
by giving another injection,
If I don't behave.
Man: Were you ever violent yourself?
Did they ever,
did you ever attack a guard or attack something?
-: Never, never
Man: Did you attacked the walls or attack?
-: Nope, no, no.
Man: Throw things or do anything that,
throw water on the guard?
-: First year no,
I didn't do anything.
I didn't offend any soldiers.
I didn't offend any of them
Man: Later on, you did?
-: Because they treated unjust with me,
then I stepped to do, because I couldn't do anything
than do those bad things.
I didn't offend anyone.
I didn't attack anyone.
Man: When you, later on what happened,
could you tell me what happened later on?
-: When they send someone else to mental block
they will be in the list of, you know, psych list.
They will come and ask and that
they will do some situation to make their life
their being there a little bit easier.
They try to give chockers, play chess
and they change the food.
They treat a little bit better than other detainees
that was everything, what can do.
And they prepared for the next investigation,
that mental clinic prepared all the detainees
for next interrogation, that's all.
Man: When you took pills, what did the pills do to you?
-: Nothing, if there are those pills,
I just slept nothing more.
Man: And what were you thinking
while you were in the middle block?
And were going through all this?
-: Because I asked for my rights.
I refuse to answer before I got all the information
from them, about my rights, about everything.
They couldn't break the law openly
and they use another way to punish me
because I am asking you for rights, for the law.
Man: And when you met other people
in the mental clinic, what kind of people did you meet?
And what happened to them?
-: Actually, most of them were showing themselves
like a crazy, but they were completely healthy.
There were escaping that interrogation period.
Not to give a wrong information
because they use all the information.
What you say against you,
but never for your benefits, never.
Man: Are you saying the other people
in the middle block were faking it so they could be there?
Or were they crazy themselves?
-: They show themselves like a crazy
but most of them weren't.
Man: But most of them were not.
-: Were not.
Man: Were you able to talk to them?
-: Yes.
I learned their Farsi.
I learned that Arabic.
Man: And were they beaten?
-: Yes, they were beaten
how to say, for example they were treated,
all of us were treated very badly there
because they should do attack into the room, anytime.
I mean, soldiers could enter into the room anytime
they could spray anytime the gas
they could make any injection any time when they want.
Man: So could you describe when you were attacked?
One time, can you describe the situation?
-: Okay, they come say they will come
and say just come front
of the fan and you should calm.
Even, you don't come.
I am warning you once.
And they prepare special team for entering into the room
with mask, with everything, with the big glasses (mumbles)
and they prepared everything.
Because all the detainees
couldn't patient, because they were treated very badly.
They were ready for everything
for hurts themselves, to do anything beacause that was,
I couldn't say that was a revenge to give them,
but they were tired.
US I may say military
and the US mental clinic made them tired.
Man: And to you, were you attacked?
-: Yeah, sure, because I didn't...
who likes to be monitored 24 hours a day?
No one, even we couldn't go to the bathroom
without monitoring.
Man: So why were you attack?
What happened?
-: You know what they say,
show me that one, show me that one (mumbles)
be controlled 24 hours can not be command
under command, 24 hours.
Sometimes I refused.
I said, no, why?
You have no reason to ask you didn't enter anything
into the room by breaking some rule.
So if you sure,
nothing wrong in my room, why are you asking?
" No, no, you should be under command.
"what we say, you must do."
Every step, they're attacking the room.
Man: Could you describe the attack
and what happened to you?
-: Yeah, they will.
They had two nurses and a one special team
that was in special mask, special glasses, a big glasses,
and they stand front of the cell,
front of the cage and the gas was ready to spread.
And before they entered the room,
that's put the gas first, and they entered into the room.
Man: And where they take you?
-: They took for special room and they bank
on the banners, on the bed
and they made the injection by force
Man: So they didn't beat you,
they just gave you an injection.
-: No, to hold you, to keep you, they may hurt annything,
they may push everywhere where they want.
Man: And did you resist?
-: Sure.
Man: Did that make it worse?
Did they then treat you worse?
-: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
If you try to resist, they make it worse.
Man: But it was worth it for you to fight them.
-: No, I didn't fight.
Never, I tried to escape.
That may action,
they took it like a resistance, nothing more.
Man: What do you mean by you tried to escape?
-: Okay, if someone sprays a gas
to your face, you try to keep your eyes back.
Even from the window they open the window
they spread from everywhere I guess.
They pick that detainee,
who was your neighbor out
they enter from this neighbor room,
they spread from everywhere, gas.
They put it down, and then that's all.
And then they pick you to bed
on the bed to make the injection.
You spend there longer than four hours.
If you spent time with no problems,
they enter you into the room, they take you back.
Man: So you returned to the same room.
-: The same room, with the no stuff into the room.
They pick everything like a punish,
because you resist, you are punished
under punishment and they take everything.
Man: And when you left the mental block
where did they take you then?
-: Everywhere, and one time they picked me to golf block
and I was monitoring 24 hours.
Two soldiers from a mental clinic or writing everything,
were sitting in front of my cage.
They were writing all the my moment,
what I'm doing, even I'm going to bathroom.
When the doctor read everything,
and he complain, why you're monitoring everything,
why they are taking notes.
He said, just they're monitoring nothing worst for you.
Just don't do anything wrong.
That's doesn't make it a problem.
As I said, okay, that was all there.
I spent a few weeks there.
I couldn't live longer another blocks
because, okay, we have to do special treatment
for you because you had mental problems.
Actually, I hadn't.
And they picked me to mental clinic again
because we cannot do a special treatment
with you to give a special food
to give extra staff than other detainees
because they start making problems
by asking we needed those stuff too.
So they tried to kept me.
Man: Did a psychologist or a psychiatrist
ever interview you?
-: Yeah, twice in a week.
Man: Could you describe what that is like?
-: He comes and,
will you behave, want to hurt yourself.
What kind of problems you have.
But when you explain your problems
your situation, they never use for your benefits.
They use for investigators benefits.
You may investigate with that way.
You may interogate with that way.
He had the problems.
Actually the doctors prepared for investigators,
for investigation nothing more.
Man: Did you participate?
Did you answer their questions?
-: During the interview, what is cycle,
what is (indistinct)?
Yes, because between them were some good people
who really wished goods for us.
And they suggest to answer correctly to their question.
If we need to get out from mental clinic
and I answered what they expected
and I left that place even I got tired then,
because, you know,
human being needs communicate with other people as well.
I couldn't live there anymore.
And they left me alone
until a group of investigator came from my country.
Man: From Uzbekistan?
-: From Uzbekistan.
Man: Can you describe how that went?
What that was about?
-: That was very bad treatment, that's all what I can say.
Before that I was taken for interrogation room
and one US Navy integrator
enter the room with the Russian translator
and just entered and said, "you know (mumbles)
"I am your future."
I said, really?
Who are you?
You are a God
if you, my future, because everything comes from a Alah.
I said, you're my God?
He said, "no because everything concern
"with my notes about you.
"If you write something to commander,
you will leave this camp as soon as I get response
from commander, I may write a positive things about you
if you answer my question."
I said, I answered everything.
If you need some information, go back to my case.
You may read everything, nothing to add.
And he start to yell at me, start to just come
and he pushed on my neck
And he said he started to do some funny things
because he wasn't interrogator
as other one, he had no experience.
He's just
he wants to show himself that he may quit everything
and I'll afraid of his treatment
and then I'll say another thing
what I didn't say before.
I said, are you crazy?
And then he left the room and he come back after half hours
and said, "aha, I understood everything
"because you were treated as a crazy and you're crazy."
I said, okay, if I'm crazy, go away.
Why you are interrogating me?
And he started yell, to push me again.
I didn't say anything.
I didn't do anything.
And the next day I was taken to investigate
with people from my country, that's in the back.
I don't want to go back.
Man: Did the Red cross talk to you?
-: Yeah, but I did understand that
nothing benefit I can take from them.
I didn't communicate them.
I said, okay, just a regular conversation, nothing more.
Man: You didn't feel they could help you or you didn't?
-: No, I didn't feel.
Man: Why not?
-: Because they were working for the US government.
They were taking, collecting, selecting some information
and that's US government couldn't find
during interrogation.
Man: Did you see other people who were actually,
besides being hurt?
Did you see other people who were beaten
in other situations?
-: Yes, sure.
Even in mental clinic, I guess
in the end of November, 2002, they brought 14 detainees
from Russia who were captured,
who escaped from Cheech, that time they told me
that history had one of them was treated very badly.
He was beaten and he was tortured.
Even they pulled
a very hard projector on his head to affect his mind.
I don't know what they want that time
and the, he was tortured very badly,
even he was tortured in Russia,
then he was sent to Guantanamo.
Man: He told you this?
-: Yeah, he told me that, his history.
Man: Did you ever observe
or witness anybody being tortured?
Could you see that?
Or people just told you
when they came back to the cells.
-: In Guantanamo, I mean he was tortured.
No, I know.
I knew one group of detainees
who were sent to another country
for torturing and the for investigating.
And US government used way
to send detainees to another country
to find another information.
Man: Do you know what country
US would send those people to?
-: One group?
I think 16 of detainees were sent
into Arabic country,
I don't know exactly where an Arabic country is,
one of Arab countries, and they were tortured there.
And then they were sent back to Guantanamo
they kept and, and close to beach in Guantanamo
because one of soldiers told me that history
when I was in Yiguana, in camp Yiguana.
And he told me that history, that they were sent
to another Arab country to torture.
And then they were pick back to Guantanamo..
And they were in bad situation now in bad treatment.
And because they complained many times
about a situation in Yiguana camp
because that time US government said
"I am not enemy combatant."
And even the time I was monitoring 24 hours
in day, I said, I am not enemy combatant and I am innocent.
Why are you monitoring me?
I was completely disagree with that situation.
And then honest, and I try not to follow the rule.
If I am not enemy, if I am innocent.
Why I should be controlled?
Just opened the door.
Let me go away.
Where you go, because have you heard about Bumgarner"
A Colonel Bumgarner, Mike Bumgarner?
Man: No.
-: Yeah, and he was the commander
of JDOG joined detention operating group.
And he tried to help for people to do something.
And I heard from my lawyers,
he treated very badly from US government.
He tried to do something good for detainees
because he did didn't understand the time
we weren't treating very badly
and that we were innocent.
And that he tried to explain the situation,
what's going on in out of Guantanamo.
And he told me that, he said that he can not send me back
to my country and they're working on my case.
And then I asked
I ask if so, why you don't follow?
That time, they made it a small wall.
They kept there the convention of Geneva,
from Geneva, you know general convention?
Man: Mhmhh.
-: And there was a law
under some rules, but they didn't follow.
When I asked them to follow that rules.
They said, you know, we just hang them with and follow
and then accomplish to Bumgarner,
he said, you know the situation,
all that comes from the top, I can not do anything.
I should follow this order
but I'll do my best to make your situation better.
He tried to help.
And even we were controlled very badly there.
And I was sent, even, they send me after CRT.
You know what's a CRT,
after CRT, I was treated very badly,
then I can't play that on my situation.
And because of it,
I was sent to mental block twice,
because I was asked for the law,
that law they should follow.
Man: So after the CRT, when you asked for the law,
they sent you to the mental block?
-: Yeah, to mental block.
And then the commander of that mental block explained me
that I should follow the instruction.
And he said, we know you didn't do anything wrong
but we follow the older from the highest one.
Man: Did you see any dogs
while you were in Guantanamo?
-: Yeah, sure.
When they search a block, they entered into the block
and they keep around.
They took a circle with dogs,
the special force with a special clothes.
Man: Did they use the dogs with you too then?
with the dogs there, whenever searching your cell?
-: They did enter into the block.
They stand around the block, but they treated very badly.
When a friend of mine ask for the commander
higher than Capitan in Yuguana camp,
it happened when they told us we are not enemy.
And when they said, there was a very funny system.
Soldiers try to do some troubles
by themselves because they knew
and they know now, no one can complain higher to soldiers
your complaint doesn't go anywhere.
And they tried to play with us during, after pray call
during have over pray.
They come out and they start yelling, started making noise.
No, to ignore us, our pray
because it prohibited during after pray
to make a noise especially for the pray call.
And they start laughing of our religion.
And they went pray call.
you know, pray call when comes from speaker.
They were laughing at prey calls, making joke on it.
That's offending all religion.
It's very bad for Muslims.
And a friend of mine that time
when we were in Yiguana camp after CRT ask,
"okay, if so, I need to commander"
From, soldier asked to call commander.
He said, no, if not, I will ask for (indistinct).
It's okay, call.
He said, no, no, no, no,
but he didn't do anything wrong.
Just he broke the TV.
Then came, one a special group with a special car,
with a big weapons.
That's time I scared even,
who we are like a terrorist they treated us.
He was taking to special place
I don't know where that time.
Man: Did you see the Qur'an being?
-: Yeah, sure.
Man: Could you describe what you saw?
-: You know, some soldiers explained the situation,
when I was in chattle block,
they made a special problems with the Qur'an,
they have taken one Afghan detainee out
and he just entered the room
for surgery room and he just picked the Qur'an.
And that time was (indistinct) for shoulder
not to touch Qur'an because that was organized
to make special problems
with the camp, even not just with block,
they organized problems with Muslim, why?
If someone else picks Qur'an
and throws away to toilet, that's a very bad
bad for Muslims to see even,
and then not to make problems
not to protest for that action.
And he was just entered into the room.
He just picked the Qur'an, threw the into the toilet.
Man: You saw that?
-: No, friend of mine,
he was in that neighbor room
when Afghan was taken out from his room.
And that time he was a Arab from Arabic country.
And at that time he start yelling.
He was informing everyone,
I am Muslim, just look at it.
He makes the problems on purpose.
And that was the beginning of problems.
And that was the beginning of hunger strike.
Man: Did you participate in the hunger strike?
-: Yes.
Man: Could you describe how that happened
and what happened to you?
-: And I start, keep hunger strike,
I didn't eat.
Didn't drink anything during 12 days.
And the commander of mental clinic
came in front of my room with a translator
and he explained the situation,
and he said, "we should take you into the mental clinic."
Because they started making problems
and you get punished with no reason.
We now, you do everything,
you don't do anything bad.
And they said, no.
And I was taking a special room.
That period of hunger strike.
And a captain from Navy,
Navy captain entered into the room.
Okay, "why are you keep hunger strike?
This time I explained,
your soldiers, and your government
insulting our religion, even, I don't know why I'm here.
What's the reason?
That's really difficult.
Okay, if you want, I may start eating now
but I should know why I am here.
How long I'm going to be here.
Explain what reason, if I innocent, just show me my crime.
And he said, that's a very difficult question.
I can not get answer right now,
but I may send your request to state department.
I said, okay, but you should eat now,
but I am not going to die during.
Okay, how long I asked, how long it takes time?
He said, "two, three days."
Okay, I wait for two, three days.
I'm not going to die during of two, three days.
That was six or seven days of my hunger strike.
And that affect very badly for US government.
They didn't accept that hunger strike.
That was the first hunger strike.
And I explained, I'm not going to die
during of two, three days.
Okay, I will wait for your response, Okay?
He said, "okay."
And I was in back, but
Man: Were you forced fed?
-: That time no.
Man: Sometime you were?
-: Sometime, yes.
Man: Could you describe the other times (mumbles)
-: They pulled a plastic tube through your nose
and they fed you with the (indistinct)
Man: And why did you go on hunger strike the second time?
Or third time or (mumbles)
-: Because of, again, there were making problems
with our with our religion,
by throwing Qur'an into the toilet
and ripping Qur'an, just tearing them to piece.
Man: And that's why you went on a hunger strike?
-: Yep.
Man: And how many days was it
before they started force feeding you?
-: No, after the third time
I was taken to hospital and I was forced to eat
and they fed me through plastic tube through my nose.
Even the time I refuse, but I was forced
Man: And how long did that go on?
-: Six days.
Man: And then why you stop?
-: And they said
they're going to do a better condition for Muslim.
They never going to makeup problems with our religion.
And then I stopped.
Man: Did you ever try to commit suicide?
-: Sorry?
Man: Did he ever try to commit suicide?
-: They blind me on it
and it was very difficult to be patient
to their unjust treatment.
I show myself to escape the treatment
that's I want suicide but that wasn't true.
Man: Did you know anybody
who did try to commit suicide?
-: Yes, I think already six of them died
because it's prohibited to kill themself for Muslim
because that was very bad treatment for Muslim,
even they couldn't patient for the treatment.
That there is a reason.
Man: In the metal clinic,
did you see people who tried to commit suicide?
-: No, they were very clever.
I may say like me.
Man: Excuse me.
-: I may say like me, to escape investigation process.
Man: And the way you escaped
from the investigation processes is.
Man: Because they start pushing me
to give wrong information
to catch me and some wrong information.
I didn't want it.
I said, if you're (indistinct) something,
you're sure that, you'll have to say all information.
Man: Did you, was the doctors coming?
Were doctors present a lot with you too,
besides psychologist?
-: What kind of doctors?
Man: Well, -: Medical, physical.
Man: Why were they doing medical checks on you?
-: Yeah, sometimes when you call doctor
even nurse, they didn't come,
to make it even a regular apartment
when you complaint it will be taken
after a few months, for example, I can pull up many times.
They just pulled up my teeth with no reason.
I said, just fill it.
They said, "no, we will just pull them off."
And they pulled off my teeth, five of them.
And when I had some physical, medical problems
I tell psych doctors to care about my medical problems,
physical medical problems, and they try to do something.
Man: So when you came from Kandahar
to Guantanamo, you still had a medical problem.
-: Yep.
Man: Did the doctors
-: Even they didn't pay attention
to my problems that day.
Man: Did they ever (mumbles)
-: Didn't
Man: They never did.
-: They never did.
Man: When you left Guantanamo
were the medical problems still there?
-: When I left, no.
Man: They went away.
-: Yeah (mumbles)
Man: Could you describe how you first found a lawyer
and your meetings
with lawyers and how that worked?
-: Through, Abubakar, you know him?
Man: Yes.
-: He said, if you want, I may sent my lawyer,
they may send just someone else to be your own lawyer.
I said, okay, that was the reason.
But during CRT, they said I will have one
a military lawyers.
Actually, he worked to make it worse for me not to help.
Man: Why was that?
-: Because during of military tribunal he told
another thing but I did understand that time, English,
not too much, but I could catch them
when they tried to give wrong information.
Even translator worked for them, not for me.
When I said,
for example, when I said I left at village
one day before they start bombarding that village
and the interpreter said, "he left that village
"while they were bombarding."
I said, stop.
And I asked in English that time, wasn't my English like now
I asked the president of the tribunal,
You asked that question, yeah?
"Yes."
And she gives to you that answer?
"Yes,"
that was wrong.
And she stands as by keeping up her hand.
I apologize, get my apologize for tribunal, I was wrong.
I said, why are you playing hard?
This is tribunal,
not just regular appointment with the doctor,
if you didn't have some appointment to make us some problems
or mistake acceptable, what are you doing?
And I feel refuse from that translator
and her name was Shakhida or Shakhista,
I guess he was from US.
And she understood Uzbek, Russian language.
Woman: (mumbles)
-: We were taking together even.
Man: Did you know him before you came to Guantanamo?
-: No, I didn't.
He was very funny guy.
I am talking about, Uzbek (laughs)
Woman: (mumbles)
-: Yeah, I heard about he's lawyer, but I am not sure
that he really is or not.
(murmurs)
Man: Can we talk about that on camera?
Can we ask you about that?
Can you talk?
-: Yes, sure.
Man: There were other Uzbeks in Guantanamo?
And did you know them?
And could you tell us how you got to know them
and how you have to be friendly with them?
-: I didn't know one of them even
before Guantanamo, when first time I was taken
to mental clinic, I heard about Abu Bakr,
his real name, Ibeck
issued release from Guantanamo,
now to Ireland and he looks so funny.
You never miss when you've been with him.
Oh, he was a funny, he spent his time
with some patients to do fun of solders
to make them problems by talking to them.
And he loves girls very much.
And when I entered first time mental clinic
he asked, "who's the detainee who entered this part
"because I heard someone else entered into the"
That was Delta block,
"enter the Delta block, he was Uzbek"
I said, yes, I am Uzbek.
We were yelling each other
you know, from the distance, maybe he was far away
30 meters or 40 meters from me.
And, "who, what's your name?"
I said, my name is Zakir, what's your name.
"My name is Abu Bakr."
And they knew to tear each other.
And then he asked site commander to get closer to me.
And he was moved from his place to right front of my cage.
Man: Wow.
-: Yeah, and we spent two days
and he was a little troublemaker, you know,
he never patients someone else
made unjust treatment to him.
His starts spitting on them vow to face.
He just call and said, "Hey, how are you?"
And he knew very well,
I think he knows very well, English,
now better than mine, I guess.
And he calls soldier and said, "Hey, how are you?"
With some funny things
because he wants to get (mumbles)
how, by spitting on face,
he said, "Hey, how are you?"
I am okay.
Because that was the way to get way around, you know,
and when he comes closer, he spits on his face
and he gets so happy.
When I ask, why you doing problems?
Now they come to pick you to get punished.
Now he said, no, you know (mumbles)
I don't anything
and he will be taken to other block, to get punished.
And he started making problems down there
then he will take him back
in other time to mental clinic.
And he used that method to get back
to mental clinic, to get a better treated.
Man: Why are you better treated metal clinic?
-: Because they said, "don't make proud muster this detainee.
"He makes, he may do some problems.
"He may hurt himself, don't do."
Because all those comes from commander, common staff
common groups,
and they said, "don't treat them."
And that they sticked a red sticker on the cage.
If you have a red sticker
no one comes and plays with,
no one comes and push to you, so hardly,
they do with another detainees, not with you
Man: Because?
-: Because you had a red sticker on you cage.
Man: Which means
-: Which means you are a danger detainee
and the danger mental patient, you know,
Man: Did you have a red sticker?
-: Always.
I had always a red sticker on my cage.
That helped me.
Man: I hadn't heard that before.
Could you go back to the lawyers?
-: Mhmhh
Man: So you got to meet a lawyer and
was that helpful for you?
Did lawyers help you?
And also did the government ever pretend?
-: From CSRT you mean?
Man: No, when you met Abu Bakr, (mumbles)
-: Oh, yeah, I think it happened
in the end of November, 2004.
When I asked for a lawyer through Abu Bakr.
And he said, he told his lawyer on my request
and they will respond as soon as they can.
And after three months I got the first letter
from my lawyer, from Chris, Christopher Moore
from clear (mumbles)
And that was the first letter from the lawyer.
Man: And when you met him,
did they help you?
Do you think they help you get you out?
-: Not so much but they effected a little bit.
Because now they could put some condition
from the state department.
Man: And did the government
ever pretend they were your lawyer?
Did you ever have a governmen?
-: Yeah, they tried to make it somebody else
front of him not to come to meet with me
to do some problems.
And they didn't get it exactly information about me.
Man: Did they ever tell you not to meet with your lawyer?
-: Not openly.
Man: Did they tell you you will be better?
-: No, but Chris told me when he come to Yiguana camp
when he met with me?
Thanks, he explained the situation
what was the problem.
When I asked,
okay, if you're my lawyer
why you didn't come so long
and ask me the situation was?
And he explained what situation is now.
Man: Before you met your lawyer any day
on a day that you were to meet your lawyer
did the government or the military take you
to another place?
-: Yeah, to Eko camp.
(murmurs)
Yes, and when we were in Delta camp
we were taken to Eko camp to meet our lawyers.
Man: Were you taking it the night before?
-: Sometimes before three days.
Sometimes two days.
Sometimes before night.
Man: Did anyone ever ask you to spy
for the United States government?
-: No, because they were afraid of me.
I said, I may work for you.
No one trust you.
Okay, that's enough.
Man: And they were afraid of you because,
because you was too much trouble.
-: No, because, come to see
I had not a friendly relation with the US
because they treated me unjust, you know
because they said, no, no, no.
When I was in camp two, I was taken
four palography tests.
How do we say for detector, palography test.
And they asked me that time, "what are you going
"to do when you leave from Guantanamo?"
I said, I am going to be your guest.
I go to your house.
Man: You said that?
-: Yeah, I said for that's a interrogator
and he was so scared,
said, "no, never come!
"I will come off with my rifle?"
I said, going to kill me?
No, I am protected.
He says, "I said, I'm not going to kill you.
"I am going to have just a friendship with you,
nothing more
"I may give it to you food."
Like I am homeless.
I said, no,
I'm trying to fix my life
my future, if I leave, you know, he was scared.
Man: Were you able to communicate with other detainees?
Was it easy for you to communicate with other detainees?
-: What do you mean to communicate?
Just to talk.
Man: Was it easy to talk?
Were you in isolation a lot or not much?
You're mostly in the middle of clinic or in regular cells.
-: They had two section of mental clinic.
One of them was a isolated,
second part was the regular cages.
I may say, not cells, cages.
And that cages were regular,
through the fan you may communicate with the others.
Man: You were in isolation also?
-: Yeah, many times and a very long time.
Man: How long was the longest time?
-: Sometimes two, three days.
Then I were taken back then started making some problems
not mental problems by soldiers.
And I got anger Man: Right.
To Us and I started making problems.
Then after that, I wasn't taken
for investigation and they said, "please be quiet.
"We don't arrest you,
"do a doctor say, nothing more."
And then I stopped putting my condition from that doctor.
If so I was taken with no reason.
Now you should follow my instructions, not to follow yours.
"We cannot."
That was their answer.
Man: When you were in isolation,
did that upset you or did you mind you were in isolation?
-: No, I was making
when I was out, I started making problems when I was taken
into the isolation.
I was so quiete to keep out as soon as I could.
And they had no chance then pick me back.
Man: And so it was, was it easy for you in isolation
or did you?
-: I prepared myself for isolation.
Man: How did you prepare yourself?
That's like, well to eat than making powers
and getting to isolation then getting sleep there.
That's all.
Man: When you found out
that you were gonna leave Guantanamo, did you believe?
-: No, I didn't believe
that I will leave in Guantanamo, you know.
Man: Who told you, and how did,
can you describe the situation?
-: I think it was, it was the end of October
when Chris, my lawyer came into Yiguana camp
and that, because I refuse for my lawyer.
I didn't trust them anymore.
I couldn't trust them
because if you working on my case, okay, what is the result?
Even she has already said
I am innocent, not the enemy combatant.
And they said, "you will go out."
Okay, if so, why you couldn't do anything?
And he's walking.
It was really difficult to fight
against the state department
because, and he tried to explain the reason
and I couldn't believe,
they said "okay, you want a lawyer since that time."
"yes you didn't do anything."
And I said, okay, I refuse
because we had a phone conversation that time.
I told over the phone, okay, I refused.
You may not come to make me
no, no, my Jonathan Blackman was his boss,
his chief.
"Jonathan Black wants to talk to you."
I don't want to talk to him anymore.
And I hang up the phone.
And after 20 days, approximately after 20 days,
he came and the one sold soldier informed me
that's my lawyer wants to meet with me.
I said, who?
I have no lawyers.
You said, no, you have a lawyer.
That's a private lawyer wants to talk to you.
And he said, ah, I receive a package from my lawyer.
Laughter even I didn't open it.
And the soldier informed me that my lawyer wants to come
toward me, to talk.
And I refuse.
I said, I don't want to meet.
He said just, he has a very good news for you.
And that was interesting.
I said, okay, I want to make a try and afternoon he came
and then I was waiting
for me under the shade
Calls to reach, calls to see.
And he enter, said, "just tell me Zakir,
if I am still on the case or not?"
I said, it depend of your news.
Yeah. I got the letter
from government within 30 days you'll be released.
If so, you're on the case, that was my joke.
And we met each other
and that I spent a whole day together and I prepared food.
He'll laughed at food
because I cook very good foods, natural foods
and he was happy.
Then I think after 20 days I left.
Man: And when did you find out you would come to Albania?
When did you find out you were coming to Albania?
-: Oh, even in the end of summer, 2006, a delegation
from ICRC informed me that they are preparing us
to send to Albania.
I refuse actually to come
to Albania, I said, I'm going to wait here.
Even Bumgarner
come to ask me to be agreed with them.
I said no, I never been agree with you.
I never go to Albania because I heard from ICRC.
That's a five detainee is in difficult situation
if they couldn't find jobs.
They couldn't do anything
even they had some problems, medical problems
and that's a very poor country, a poor country.
And that was the reason.
And I tried to find out because I had a police station
and soccer, and there was some information about Albania
because what (indistinct) had Albanian soccer team.
And I tried to find some information
because we had no rights to watch TV.
I mean a regular teller station.
Though we had a DVD PlayStation TV?
We were isolated that time
and I tried to find some,
then I refused.
I was forced to come to Albania, that's all.
But I refused then
Bamgarner come to say, "okay, you cannot stay here
if you're innocent."
Okay, you guys brought me here.
You should have find some place
which I could fix my future.
Could I start my life?
"Yes."
That's old, that's my condition.
I am not going to leave to Albania.
No, you must, must, must.
Yeah, I was forced.
Man: And when you were sent here
did you know any of the weagers who were here?
You knew Abu Bakr.
Did you know anyone else?
-: We were together in camp
in Yiguana camp
Even they, you know
they select us together, all the NEC, enemy combatants.
Man: So you had a community when you came here?
-: Yes, we had, we had
even we saw each other before CSRT.
Just we were talking from distance,
we're greeting each other.
Man: I want to go back to the communication.
Did you ever, were you able to send notes?
Or any other ways to communicate
besides just screaming over to somebody?
-: No, no, no, no, nothing.
Oh, I may send picture because, not notes.
Man: You could send pictures?
-: I'd draw very well.
Man: You would draw (mumbles)
-: Yeah, I did.
And that picture was taking to my friend from Kazakhstan.
Man: So some guard took your picture and gave it to him?
-: Yeah, but that was just friendly.
If they knew they would punished him.
I was prohibited.
Man: So some guards were friendly to you?
-: Yeah, but they are afraid of getting punished.
You know
even when I was in Yiguana camp, one Spanish soldier come
but he was in good relation with me.
Man: A Spanish soldier?
-: Yeah, he was (mumbles)
His nationality was Spanish.
And he explained
in many things what's going on in Guantanamo.
And he said, "I know who you are.
"So because I am telling you," and he was punished
because he was treated us.
Man: Do you know how he was punished?
-: He was taken from that camp
because they will be sent another
camp when detainee makes more troubles.
Man: And so do you feel that some of the guards were nice
some of of the guards were just nice?
-: Just a little bit, yeah,
and I had a guard in there.
I think Roshan knows about what my guard,
than about my flower garden,
and yeah, I plant (mumbles)
Man: Could you tell how to plant your flower garden?
-: And one guy from Saudi Arabi,
his name was Siddiq.
She knows him.
And we decided to make a garden together.
And because, on Fridays we had that extra food
from Bazaar, extra food.
They brought from out extra than regular food.
And we get at least what we need.
For example, ice cream,
watermelon, melon, cantaloupe, (mumbles)
And I asked for watermelon
and I pick the seeds from watermelon.
I said, Siddiq, what do you think?
Can we be plant watermelon?
Just tried because climate was very good.
And I decided to try.
Man: which campus is this?
-: It was Yiguana, camp Yiguana.
We had a little bit more freedom than other camp.
Man: The guards like it?
-: Yeah, when I asked the commander
of the camp, he said, "we cannot give it to you,
"and there are special permission
from Washington from pentagon, from somewhere."
And they said, "okay, but give them plastic
you know, (indistinct) other things, plastic, not metallic.
And I said, okay, but when they give
I should give it back before evening
even those plastic instruments
and I asked for instruments and we grow.
And that we had more than 28 watermelons, like this size.
Yeah, and what happened,
second month, one of commander of that scamp
he was staff soldier.
Yeah, staff soldier.
And he entered with the machine
who works with art, and he entered into
and that he was taking by the video camera,
but interviewed, and he explained,
"we're working for detainees we're growing watermelons."
He was on the pictures of newspapers.
And I saw the picture that black surgeon was working in.
They announced us, they're working for detainees,
They're growing watermelon,
they are growing flowers for detainees.
That was my job, not him.
Oh, it was terrible.
And I need to tell my lawyer and I talk that time.
I try to make a phone conversation with the Chris.
And I said, okay, I want to talk (mumbles)
my kitchen last fall.
And they said, "what are you doing?
"What kind of, Zkir that's military newspaper.
"We cannot do anything."
They made whatever they want.
You know, they announced
that they are growing for us watermelon.
They're making flower garden.
Man: Did you ever eat any of your watermelons?
-: Oh, most of them, more than 28,
I said, because I count them and I grow (indistinct)
It was very sweet.
Man: Awesome? -: Yeah.
Man: And you got to eat them too?
-: Yes, sure.
Man: Could you share them with the other?
-: Yeah, because they were afraid because,
with other detainees yes, sure,
because that time we left only four, we were four.
And even I fed soldiers.
They were afraid
because they were prohibited to any food offers
because they're afraid of get poisoned from us.
We were terrorists so we could do anything.
Man: So for how many years
were you able to grow the watermelons?
-: That was the beginning of the summer, 2006.
Man: Before you left?
-: Yeah, before I left and I made the try
but it gave results,
we had more than 20, callops, not so big
with which we had from Bazar, but it was very sweet.
Man: And did everyone know, did everyone know about that?
-: About?
Man: About what you were growing?
Did other detainees ever know?
-: Detainees, yeah
When I was the one,
when I went to hospital
and I complain about my teeth problems
and I saw there Abubakar, Uzbek not this one
other who is ready to release to Ireland.
And I explained him all situation.
He said, "yeah, I heard about your garden" (mumbles)
I said, that was excellent.
And he move on other detainees about my garden.
Man: Do you grow a garden here in Albania?
-: No, I have more time and no area.
Oh I could, but there is no place and no time.
Man: So what is your attitude about Guantanamo
and about America looking back, what is your attitude
about the country and the people?
Do you have any thoughts about the people since you
the different people you met and how America treated you?
Do you have any thoughts about that today?
-: You know, I cannot say all American people
are bad because I had, and I have good friends from America
and I saw many of them who were treated very badly with me
you know, even I cannot say about the Uzbek
the same things (mumbles)
because you know, country and all
the nation has its good side and the bad side.
And even they have now some of them like on my friends
not on like lawyers
even others still communicating with me as a friend
but they are my friend.
And one of them were very in bad situation.
That's America has done with us.
So on just treatment.
And even they were crying friend of us,
that their country has done something bad
which may give us some thoughts
really bad thoughts about US and both people from US.
Then I explained to them that this is,
that is not their fault.
If someone else has done something wrong
we cannot blame everyone.
Man: Did you say you have some friends
from the prison that you're still in touch with?
-: Except this people?
Man: I mean, since you left Guantanamo,
are you still friendly with some of the people,
you met in Guantanamo?
-: Do you mean from soldiers?
Man: No, with soldiers or any.
-: No, we couldn't exchange information.
Man: What about with other detainees?
Are you in touch with them?
-: Yeah, I spoke twice with the person from Kazakhstan
and his father explained me
because it was very dangerous that time, because you know
international calls will be monitored through satellite
or something like that.
Even I was warned that my all conversation
will be recorded monitored, and I never say anything.
And I stopped trying to get connected then.
I said, okay.
But I had a conversation after that.
Man: How has one timeout changed your life?
Is there anything positive that came from it?
-: Positive, I cannot say anything positive
about my life which I spent in Guantanamo,
everything negative.
Man: Could it have changed your life in a positive way?
-: Positive, no,
I cannot say any words of positive.
Man: Could you just say what
it changed your life negatively?
-: Yes, life negative, because I lost trust in people.
That's all.
Man: You lost trust
in people because, the way Americans treated you?
The lawyers treated you?
-: Yes, yes, not lawyers
because US government treated me unjustly, you know
Man: And before that you always believed
in people, you always felt people did the right thing?
-: Yes I did.
And now I lost
because you know, those medicine
even that time, didn't give any effect,
now they're giving effect, very bad effect
those mental pills
mental medication, you know.
Man: How are they giving you?
-: Because now my brain function is not like before
even I may feel it.
I feel it.
Man: Can you describe what the difference is?
-: Sometimes, you know (mumbles)
I could remember when I was
in a while, when I start thinking on something
that look like in dream, you know,
because those medicine makes that time.
Me, like in dream, as you are looking
at people, but even makes you so lazy
even you don't want think when you wear something
like in dream, but you get tired of it.
And even I am getting back
to that effect, which medicine I was given in that time.
It's a very bad effect
because I thought,
I think less the effect of those medicines.
Even the effects now to my study.
Man: When you first came to Albania
were those medicines affecting you?
-: No, I cut out those medicine,
when I left to Yiguana camp.
I said, I don't take this medicine anymore
because, and they said, "okay, you can not stop it."
They said, "then you should make those dose
"a little bit lower, and lower"
And now you miss that,
I said no, I am compared to healthy people
like you storing like that, I said, don't trash it.
Man: So how long did you take medicine
when in Guantanamo?
-: Longer than three years.
Man: Three years you took medication?
-: Yes.
Woman: Do you know what it was?
-: No, no one explained what kind of.
Man: And when did it stop?
What year did it stop?
-: When I stopped those medicine,
they picked me once, twice
and doctor came said, if you stop taking medicines
we will force you make injection.
Man: Did they continue then with injections?
-: Yeah, and they said, "if you stop taking this medicine
"we'll force make an injection."
Man: And so did you get injections throughout?
-: No, I said, if so I'll take them.
Then that time, doctor explained
you cannot stop it striking.
Yes, make a lower, lower, lower.
And I didn't complain because
after CSRT stop making any problems
because I was promised to leave to camp four.
And they said,
"if so, you should get yourself better than now.
"You are in trouble because you had
"bad back behind you
"because you pass on mental steps that you should prove it.
"You may go to camp four."
I said, I may start giving myself quite right now.
I meet whatever you want.
And my interrogator said, "if you keep yourself quiet,
"you will be there after two months."
He promised me
and what kind of a way I used to leave to camp four.
And his name was, I forgot his name.
And he told me, "I need information about everything.
"If you need, you may read in my files, in my case."
He said, "no other info.
"You need other information?
"Let me exchange."
Okay, I'll give you all the information
whatever you want, but I won't go to camp four.
"Have you been ever?"
Never, okay.
Okay, when I come from camp four, I answer your question.
What kind of, doesn't matter.
Okay, okay.
Then I left to camp four then come back.
I started repeating.
No, no, no.
Okay, what do you want, do you want, (mumbles)
You want to hear from me?
That's I am terrorists.
I am like that.
I am like that and I explain.
And he was so anger.
I said, okay, we will send those information
to state department and we'll wait for response.
Man: I'm sorry, are you saying that sometimes
you gave false information just to please them?
Is that what you're saying?
-: No, he told me he wants all the information
which you have given before
to repeat or he said, "I want to ask some questions."
What kind of question?
I have given all answer to your question.
You may check my case, my files, whatever you want.
No, I need the new something.
Okay, if you need the new something,
under condition, my exchanging.
How?
For next investigation or interrogation,
I will come from camp four.
Oh, how have you even ever been there?
Never, okay
Okay, and I was taken from count four after two weeks.
And he was so happy to just withdraw from phase
you know, in the, you see,
I said what, I sent you there.
Okay, okay, what do you need now?
And he has given the same questions.
He was taking the answer, the same.
He was so angry at me.
He said, "you're giving me"
okay, what did you expect?
You expect, no, I was wrong.
I was trained in some special camp.
I pass some special training, like Alqaeda?
I never say that because I didn't do anything.
He was anger.
You get what you want.
Man: So can you just explain to me again
about the medication you were on pills
for three years?
-: Different because we were like a rabbit under experiment.
We have some, you have the same proverb.
We have a proverb, like a rabbit under experiment.
Man: Right, a rat.
-: Yeah, a rat under experience.
And you know, when the doctor gives
to you this medicine, they come to ask you how
what kind of effect he has given to you?
He takes notes, everything, everything.
I never gave the right information.
Then I didn't want to help that doctor
to make more experiments about that in medicine.
I gave false information, everything
they got lost on some way.
Man: And then when you stop taking the medication,
then they gave you shots for a while after that,
or they didn't?
-: Actually some of them, were, no.
When I refuse taking those medicine,
they made it, they called doctor,
psychologist to come to make appointment.
And he explained me if I strictly stop this medicine
it may could give me bad effect.
Man: Right.
-: Then, they will be
forced me to take, to make an injection.
Man: Right.
-: Which they were making to another detainees
from that injection, they were losing their mind
because it was very bad injection.
I don't know what kind of.
Man: Right.
I saw many detainees
who has lost their mind front of me.
Man: So you continued.
I just want to make sure it's good.
You continue winding it down and then you stop.
-: Yes.
Man: And then the effects, came back later on.
-: Yeah, even I feel about the effect of those medicines.
Man: Okay, is there something else that
that I didn't ask you,
that maybe you want to talk about?
Or maybe what is say?
-: You know, what is offend me, when I asked for the justice
from commanders, not just from soldiers, from someone else.
they help all the unjust treatment never goes out
from Guantanamo, unjust treatment to people.
Even I think in America, even very bad and very,
the high terrorists had their own rights to keep silent
at least, but never, they use that right to Guantanamo.
But why?
Because that is not American area, not American land.
Someone else made me explanation, when I asked
for that, what they, I mean, they is a military people.
They didn't follow the law.
They didn't follow the rule.
If so, why they ask people to follow?
Even I was arguing with the special agent from CIA
why they have killed so many innocent people in Afghanistan.
That is military situation, you know, it's easy.
They killed many, many innocent people
with no reason, because we had information.
They were group of Taliban.
And we destroyed that village, more than 2000 people
on that time.
And when I argued,
and he was wondering how I did get that information
about that village, but I didn't say anything.
And I said, if you say,
when I ask why they're treating me very badly here.
And you know, we're now separating
and the clarifying who is who and the, you are between them.
We're forced to make the same treatment to you.
And we know, but you should be open with us.
And I explained, if some of them terrorist,
aren't you terrorist?
What do you mean, I am a terrorist?
I said, your government never get innocent people?
What do you meant?
And I explained the situation.
And you know, he was wondering how I got this information.
I said, you never killed innocent people?
And my government never kills.
And I explained the situation.
He couldn't make any explanation.
And I said, okay, and a terrorist, why you don't treat them
as a terrorist, even terrorist has their right.
Yes, even terrorist has it's rights.
Okay, so I can not answer.
Even that special agent from CIA
couldn't answer my question.
Man: How did you know he was a CIA agent?
-: He showed me, you know
like a card he has
and two persons were introduced themselves
during of capture in Guantanamo.
Two of them, one of them, he was one of them.
I don't remember.
He showed me his ID.
And you know, last time even I got tired answering
if they don't introduce themselves
because (mumbles)
covered by tape,
I said, okay, introduce yourself.
Even the president of CSRT hide his name.
I said, if you saw why you don't open?
Why you don't introduce yourself?
If you wants to make justice to be open, just be open.
Oh, this is military Bay.
We cannot be open.
You say you never afraid of making rule.
Okay, if you don't rule,
why you're afraid of me, why you're scared of me?
Why you covered your name?
That's the rule, he covered his rank.
He covered his name, everything.
And the one of those three got upset of it.
He said, "yes, (indistinct) you're right,
we treated some of them very badly and unjustly.
And he was angry at his government,
as his governmental was treated very badly with some people.
And he said, and that,
that affect him very badly.
Even I ask if you so follow the justice
why you don't be open some
okay, who you are?
He said, "I cannot introduce myself."
That's the military rule.
Man: What would you like from America today?
-: Sorry?
Man: Would you like America to do anything
today for you or for the people in Guantanamo?
-: To do, okay.
Last the general problems we were sent to Albania,
but US government made it on purpose,
not to get better out of life
because if we get better and we
may ask for rights and we may ask for
just unjust treatment we have seen.
And if so, US government destroyed my past and my future
I may say my future and my health.
Why he was government doesn't take that responsibility
to fix at least my future.
Not to just send to some country
where that person can get worse, why
Woman: What country would you like to go,
where would you like to go?
-: Except Albania, everywhere.
Man: Would you come to America, if they took you?
-: Like to be.
Man: Well, do you have anything else, otherwise?
-: If you dodn't have any questions, anyone.
Man: Well, thank you very much.
-: You're welcome, anytime.
Man: And it was a pleasure speaking to you in English.
(murmurs)
Woman: There's one question.
-: Please. Man: Sure.
-: I wanna understand,
it seems that the, on the blocks people they organized,
like in terms of people (mumbles)
-: Which camp you're talking about?
Because they are completely different system,
completely different situation, condition,
one, two, three, four, five, six.
Woman: Okay, what I'm trying to understand
like where the certain people who took,
like helped other people learn languages
or helped organize the group
or organize hunger strikes,
or how did it work in terms of (mumbles)
-: It was just from the beginning of detention,
they tried to help Afghan people to learn English
learn (mumbles)
Woman: Who tried to help?
-: I don't know what kind of people
when I ask to learn English, they resist, you know why?
Because if I understood English,
I'm understand what they were reporting between them
and wrong information, because they didn't want
what was the conversation was between them.
Woman: So you learned Arabic just by listening
or did someone help you?
-: Just by listening,
Farsi, Arabic, just by listening
(murmurs)
Man: Okay, thank you so much.
-: You're welcome. Woman: Thank you.
(murmurs)