- We used based on risk models used in violence. I mean, I've written books a book on workplace violence and articles. And my team had people who are well studied in assassination and other types of risks. And so what was their potential for violence? And, you know, if you released them what was the chance that they'd be, you know, a recidivist. And so we would look at the individuals based on the materials that we had. And often there were many holes in the case files and categorize them one, two, three, four. And if they were really considered a serious risk and that they had been, we used a number of factors, the level of commitment. So how committed were they to the radical Islam? What was their capability? So were they trained in an organized training camp or did they just sort of get some training in a safe house? What were their associations? So were they affiliated with their affiliations with those people who are known to have done really bad things and what were their articulated intentions? So there would be people who were very radical who had been trained in the camps who had known other and affiliated with other significant Al-Qaeda members who engaged in violent acts against the United States who sat there and said to you, as soon as you let me go I'm going to become a suicide bomber. Well, thanks very much, I think we'll just keep you here for a while or individuals who said, yeah, this doesn't make any sense. There's no real commitment. And you could look at their behavior. And then of course, you know, over years it became a sort of a cauldron in there where people were self, were being radicalized by the group, had no capabilities, their affiliations and who they knew were really limited to people who really, if anything were pretty low level and they were remorseful and like didn't mean to be there. And it was a mistake and you'd rate them as pretty low level. And I think there was based on the, I don't have the stats in my head, but the recidivism was probably no different than the recidivism coming out of US prisons. There were people that went back and fought. The question was, was it because we missed it? Or they were so pissed from having been in Guantanamo and around people who were radicalized that they joined the cause. Nobody knew nobody's done any followup. 

Interviewer: Did you personally interview a detainee in this process? 

- No. It was all case file review. You couldn't interview because they didn't speak English, so 

Interviewer: Some do 

- Some, but very few. 

Interviewer: But you never spoke to a detainee personally? 

- No, For a risk assessment? No, we wouldn't. 

Interviewer: For another reason. 

- I mean, I remember chatting with a few, you know who were going to be run as sources 

- Meaning they were going to go back against the Al-Qaeda. 

Interviewer: You mean you released, the US government released some people knowing that they would then work for us? 

- Well, we didn't release them, It's a long story and I probably shouldn't go that on there but there were people who agreed to work for us. Yeah, who were not necessarily in Guantanamo Bay but we had captured them. Much like you would, so that no, they weren't Guantanamo Bay. But in terms of Guantanamo Bay, you had an investigator who was doing the interviews talking to the person. And then we would use case file material to make a determination.