WEBVTT 1 00:00.000 --> 00:04.000 Okay. 2 00:04.000 --> 00:50.000 I called the parent and I said, "May I speak with Mrs. So-and-so?" Someone said, "Who?" I said, "May I speak with Mrs So-and-so?" "Mama, the White man on the phone wants you." And any number of times I've been taken for White. Now in terms of Blacks, no. I mean, generally the people I know and whatnot, they know that I have a trained voice and so it doesn't bother. But there are a number of people when they've seen me, hearing me on the telephone first and then seeing me in person. 3 00:50.000 --> 00:53.000 You look. 4 00:53.000 --> 01:35.000 I've been told, somebody said to me one time, "You don't sound like someone with all the experience. You don't sound that old." I said, "What do you mean? How does old, what does that have to do with it?" "I don't know, but you just don't sound like it." And it's shown up several times. I've talked with people on telephone and then I've gone and I've seen the expression on their face. You don't have to say anything, but I'm not whom you were expecting. 5 01:35.000 --> 02:27.000 See, and it's the same thing over and over. It doesn't bother me, as I said with it. And I just try to be me and keep going with it. I have not, as I said before, overtly personally had a lot of incidents as other people may have had with them because of the nature of what I've been doing and how I've been doing with it. So maybe I've been put on a pedestal. Maybe I've been shielded or something like that. I don't know. People will say, "Oh, but you're different." People start talking about Blacks, or this Black. I said, "I'm not." "Oh, but you're different." "I said, no, I'm not different." 6 02:27.000 --> 02:29.000 Whites tell you you're different. 7 02:29.000 --> 03:36.000 "Yes, you're different," would tell, "but you're different." I said, "I'm not different. My blood is the same. Color is the same. Everything." "Yes, but." "But what? I just had opportunities and I made use of those opportunities." Other people have not had the opportunities so they have not been able to. But I learned because of my background that I knew my parents couldn't afford some of the things I wanted and some of the things that they wanted for me. So I had to make use of the opportunities as they came open. And I used every opportunity that I had to get ahead in terms of what I wanted to do. I have an uncle who told me, he says from a little child, he always knew I was going to be a teacher. I said, "How do you know?" He said, "Because you were always telling people how to do something and you wanted to do it better. You had to do this. You were telling them this, it's wrong. That's wrong." 8 03:36.000 --> 04:52.000 When the grandkids come here and they know that I'm going to stop them, if their English in a hurry. If you say something wrong, I'm going to correct it. My son is a doctor now and he had, when he was in school, he used to have papers to write. If he wanted it for content in terms of whether what he was saying was so, particularly in the science area to give it to his mother to read. If he wanted it grammar sense, he would give it to me. He wanted something typed one time, "Daddy, you a typist? But please don't change it." So I typed it as he had. Said, "Michael, you got a big mistake in this sentence right here after this." "Why?" "You told me don't change it." "But Daddy, you can see that that's wrong." "But you told me don't change it," see? It's out of that. It's a matter that they tease me in the club, that. 9 04:52.000 --> 04:57.000 What club? 10 04:57.000 --> 04:59.000 Oh, I'm sorry. I belong to a club called the Original Illinois Club. 11 04:59.000 --> 05:02.000 The Original Illinois Club? 12 05:02.000 --> 05:05.000 Original Illinois. It's a carnival club. You've heard of that? 13 05:05.000 --> 05:06.000 Uh-huh. 14 05:06.000 --> 05:39.000 Yeah. Okay. I happen to be secretary of the Original Illinois Club. For the balls, I've been serving as narrator, master of ceremonies, and whatnot. And usually in doing the script and whatnot, they will tease me because I look at it with a red pencil. And when we correct it, it passes my red pencil test because there's only one way to do something, that's the right way. 15 05:39.000 --> 05:39.000 What do you need? 16 05:39.000 --> 05:48.000 Okay, so you're this. 17 05:48.000 --> 06:29.000 I was saying in terms of, I insist that people do things correctly and I've been called a perfectionist. I said, "Well, just as easy to be a perfectionist as someone who makes mistakes all the time, and let's get it done the first time with it and go that way with it." So with the Illinois Club, as I said, usually I work closely with the tableau and the skit for the balls, and I insist that people are very accurate in what they do and things of that nature. 18 06:29.000 --> 06:33.000 Can you tell me a bit more about, it's called the Original Illinois Club? 19 06:33.000 --> 06:33.000 Yes. 20 06:33.000 --> 06:35.000 What is it? Just briefly. 21 06:35.000 --> 06:37.000 It's a carnival club. 22 06:37.000 --> 06:41.000 Which means what? 23 06:41.000 --> 07:39.000 There are many organizations in New Orleans that are all-Black because you are not able to join the White organization. So they started, you wanted it to better yourself. You want other kinds of things. So you won't let me get in yours and let's start our own. The Illinois Club goes back, the oldest all-Black carnival club here in the country and its history goes back to 1895 when a man came from Chicago to New Orleans and he felt that the kids needed some social graces. He was a dance teacher and he moved to New Orleans and he opened a dance school for boys and girls, and taught them ballroom dancing and things like this, all Black with it in there. 24 07:39.000 --> 08:08.000 And they decided that they wanted to have a carnival ball, carnival dance. So they put on a carnival dance and then they went over so well, so well that they then formed themselves into a club and the idea was that they would find people and present them, train them how to do the social graces and then show them off publicly with it. And that has been the tradition of the club. Our job is to find young Black girls. 25 08:08.000 --> 08:41.000 Of course, if a White girl comes to our club, then fine, we have no problem. But I don't see why she'd want to come to us when she can go to [indistinct 00:08:14]. If you come to us, that means then somebody doesn't want you. That's being brutally frank, why would you come to me? Yes, we are the best there is in there, but you have a choice of going someplace else with it. Why would you associate with all-Blacks where once you're finished you're not going to be with these, you're going back to your own society. So nobody has ever come, but I'm just saying with that. 26 08:41.000 --> 09:19.000 So these girls, by application they apply to and our purpose is to find the girls. They're taught social graces, how to stand, how to walk, how to greet people, how to dance, and through a series of parties and whatnot. And then at the ball, they're formally presented to the social world with it. That's the primary purpose of the club. Secondarily, it's a social club for the members and their wives do meet also with it in there and that's the whole thing. 27 09:19.000 --> 09:27.000 So it sounds like it's multi-generational as far as when you find the girls, it's the elders teaching the younger women. 28 09:27.000 --> 09:57.000 Yeah. The girls are usually seniors in high school, and usually they're juniors or seniors in high school. We've had some freshmen and sophomores in colleges with it. And they are taught, the wives of the club members work with them. There are three of the ladies who are in charge of the debutantes who teach them the things they need to know. Plus, there's a special dance that the club has called the Chicago Glide, which is written for the club that they do that. 29 09:57.000 --> 10:00.000 And that's a special dance. 30 10:00.000 --> 10:08.000 Oh, yeah. We've got a tape of the whole thing there. You would enjoy. If I get it back, I might think about lending it to you. 31 10:08.000 --> 10:12.000 I would love that. When did you become a member? 32 10:12.000 --> 11:28.000 Oh, I've been a member about 16, 17 years. Yeah. It's expensive and you have a membership dues and whatnot with them, and there are the kinds of things that you do. And it gets to the point where you decide where you want to spend your money, what you want to do. And we have been involved generally with community projects, community. To me this is another kind of community project to do. And I've heard some people say that, why don't you take your money and give it to scholarships? And things like this. That's fine. I have no problems with it. I contribute to scholarship funds also. But then you have other things that need to be done with it. You need to provide outlets for these girls, you need to provide some other kinds of things with it, so each thing has its own place. Some of the people who make the criticisms aren't doing anything themselves, but they see where you can do something else with in there for. So that's the Original, that's the social outlet that we have with that in there. 33 11:28.000 --> 11:30.000 There was something like you've got a thought. 34 11:30.000 --> 11:30.000 No. 35 11:30.000 --> 11:31.000 Were you going to say something? 36 11:31.000 --> 11:31.000 Uh-uh. 37 11:31.000 --> 11:31.000 You sure? 38 11:31.000 --> 11:37.000 No. 39 11:37.000 --> 12:01.000 I always wanted to get back to some things you said earlier. You were talking about when you were teaching Xavier Prep and you had some light skinned students and you'd tell them, go to movies. But you said to them, if they ask you who you are. 40 12:01.000 --> 12:03.000 Tell them who you are. 41 12:03.000 --> 12:04.000 Yeah. Don't deny it. 42 12:04.000 --> 12:06.000 Don't deny it. But they were never asked. 43 12:06.000 --> 12:25.000 They were never asked. But I'm interested, I mean I think that the whole, it seems like the whole issue of passing is, it's very meaningful here. It's not sure how controversial it is or it was, but something that I think it seems like a lot of people thought about. 44 12:25.000 --> 13:33.000 There's a lot into some of the cliches and things. You've probably heard the, I don't know whether if you're White, you're right. If you're Black, step back. That has a lot of meaning to it because that's actually what happened. If you're White, the thing was no matter what you did, and you're White and you got it on, you were always right. But if you're Black and you are in line, you step back, let the White go first. That's the significance of that kind of thing with it. And people used their color to get things which were rightfully theirs. It becomes wrong when you deny who and what you are where other people are concerned. See, that's where other. I have in my family history, my grandfather has a brother whose whole family says they're White. 45 13:33.000 --> 13:34.000 They left the family? 46 13:34.000 --> 13:49.000 Well, yes and no. They moved to California within, we knew they existed, but they had nothing to do with the other parts of the Boucree family. 47 13:49.000 --> 13:49.000 The darker part. 48 13:49.000 --> 14:00.000 Right, yeah. And only within the recent, one brother made an effort to come back, find out who the family was. 49 14:00.000 --> 14:01.000 One. 50 14:01.000 --> 14:37.000 One, I'm sorry. One of my uncle's sons did make some contact and we visited them in California and we visited his sister also in there. Now it is not as advantageous now to say that you're White as it was then. See, because there were a lot of things that you could get as White that you could not get then, but they spelled their name B-O-U-C-R-E with an accent over the E. 51 14:37.000 --> 14:38.000 So how do they say it? 52 14:38.000 --> 15:41.000 Boucre. That's the way they did it, see? So it separated a little bit there with it. But they're very fair. When you get into families, it's all, my mother's mother was just a shade darker than you with long silken black hair. Her background came from Indian, White French, Negro and she carries that down with her. On my daddy's side, my grandmother, his mother was very fair. She has relatives. She has a brother who has a family. Some of are fairer than you, live here in New Orleans. 53 15:41.000 --> 15:43.000 Do you see them? 54 15:43.000 --> 15:51.000 Oh, yes. They're not passing for White at all. They have never have. Other people think they are and call them. 55 15:51.000 --> 15:51.000 Call them White? 56 15:51.000 --> 16:30.000 Yeah. But they will tell them no. So when you get into this mixture and blend here in New Orleans, there's so many cross references and so much mixture here that you really don't know. And unless you ask sometimes, you just wouldn't know. There was a radio show, Keith Rush. It's like the Limbaugh show. What's his name? 57 16:30.000 --> 16:30.000 Rush Limbaugh? 58 16:30.000 --> 16:31.000 Rush Limbaugh now. 59 16:31.000 --> 16:31.000 Yeah. 60 16:31.000 --> 16:33.000 You heard his show? 61 16:33.000 --> 16:35.000 Well, I've heard of him. 62 16:35.000 --> 17:34.000 Yeah, he's way out in left field. Well, there was a local television called Keith Rush, a talk show, and it was pure racism and he was along that line and whatnot. And these little old ladies. I would sit, usually at lunchtime, I would eat lunch at my desk. My secretary was White, and her office right next to mine. And I would turn the radio on while we were eating lunch and Brenda would say to me, "You're going to turn our favorite program on." And we'd sit and laugh at what's going on. And we were listening one day. And you know that Morial, the present mayor is the son of Ernest Morial. Well, we know very well his father. As a matter of fact, my wife taught him in school and things like that. 63 17:34.000 --> 18:25.000 And this was after he was elected to mayor and whatnot and they were talking about the election and whatnot, and this lady called and she was talking about elections and about them being elected and them being this and that and the other. So he was in that behind. She said, "I learned that the mayor ain't White." Said, "No, he's not White, he's Black." She said, "He sure don't look like it." So Keith Rush said, "No, he's Black, he's Black." Said, "Mr. Keith, I'll tell you what they ought to do. If you're going to put a Black up for office, they ought to say he's Black so I wouldn't lose my vote by voting for him." Brenda goes, she said, "That woman didn't say that!" I said, "Yes, Brenda." 64 18:25.000 --> 18:38.000 Yes, she did. 65 18:38.000 --> 19:00.000 She did. She said, "I can't believe it!" Yeah. Oh, we had some interesting experiences sometimes. She said somebody asked her, "What's it like working for a Black man?" She says, "Same as working for any other man. Why?" I said, "Brenda, you're supposed to pick up, got a whole lot of stuff and tell them." 66 19:00.000 --> 19:05.000 Make something up. 67 19:05.000 --> 20:22.000 She says, "Same with anybody else. He knows what he's doing. He tells me what I'm supposed to do. I do it. We work, so fine. No different working from nobody else. I'd rather work with him than for Mr. So-and-so," who was White. I knew who she was talking, okay Brenda. Okay, okay. But that's the thing that, and it's the subtle kind of things that come up. And some of the secretaries, when I was in the schools, because they were segregated, the staff was primarily Black. It wasn't until when they started integrating the schools that you got some White staff in the public schools so my secretaries were all Black. Then when I went down to central staff, then they started integrating and I've had both White and Black secretaries with it. So I had no problems working with them. They had no problems with me at all. They had some problems sometimes with other people who came in and would not look at them as a secretary working for a supervisor. Looked at as a Black girl, working for a Black man. See. 68 20:22.000 --> 20:23.000 Wait, what do you mean by? 69 20:23.000 --> 20:27.000 A secretary working for a supervisor. Fine. 70 20:27.000 --> 20:28.000 Yeah. 71 20:28.000 --> 20:41.000 But they came and here's this Black girl working for this Black man. How does he treat you? What does he say to you? Does he make approaches to you? Does he do? Said no. Is he supposed to? 72 20:41.000 --> 20:43.000 So they didn't expect a professional relationship with him. 73 20:43.000 --> 20:46.000 Right, they did not expect it. See. 74 20:46.000 --> 20:47.000 This was White. 75 20:47.000 --> 20:54.000 Yes. And I would get it because they would say it to me. The secretary would say it to me. 76 20:54.000 --> 20:58.000 Oh, right. It's so funny that the secretary wouldn't. 77 20:58.000 --> 21:12.000 Oh, yes. That's how the relationship we would have. They would come out and say it. See, and it's the subtle kind of things that you have to put up with. 78 21:12.000 --> 21:17.000 As opposed to the signs saying for Colored only or whatever. 79 21:17.000 --> 21:22.000 Yeah. And those are the things that kill you. 80 21:22.000 --> 21:24.000 The subtle things. 81 21:24.000 --> 22:28.000 The subtle things that come up with it in there. Let's see if I can get a—No, I can't think of anything right now. No, I can't think of anything offhand. My son is a doctor, the one right in the middle with the beard and goatee. That picture is about, ooh, eight, nine years old. That was the one when he finished medical school. We have the whole family. Those are my two daughters and their husbands, and my son and two grandchildren. When he went to St. Monica School, and then from there we moved, well not moved, he went to Our Lady of Lourdes. And from there to De La Salle High School, De La Salle was White high school. 82 22:28.000 --> 22:29.000 De La Salle? 83 22:29.000 --> 22:35.000 De La Salle. D-E L-A S-A-L-L-E. 84 22:35.000 --> 22:38.000 Okay. 85 22:38.000 --> 22:57.000 And that's one of the White high schools. Him and Michael did exceptionally well at De La Salle. As a matter of fact, he became a drum major and in his last year, he did the Gershwin's Rhapsody in Blue concerto with a band. Well respected, well liked. 86 22:57.000 --> 23:54.000 From there he went to Xavier University, pre-med, and then he went to Tulane Medical School. When he was leaving Tulane, he had to go. He was getting ready for his internship. He had to be interviewed at several places. And he went to one of the hospitals in Chicago. And he says he found it interesting because they didn't know what he was, and they were afraid to ask the question. Said he could tell by the questions who or what he was. And he says there were three doctors who interview him, all White. And he says one of them thought he was Asian or something like that. You can see, look at him. And of course he's done a lot of speech club also. 87 23:54.000 --> 24:57.000 And I was on his time also. You've got to dot your i's and cross your t's and things like that. And one of the other doctors when he said he graduated from Xavier, well, that's Xavier, Ohio. So there, you're White. So he went on to talk about Xavier, and he said Xavier is founded by Katherine Drexel. So one of the doctors looked at him and says, "Oh." See, when he said that, then the man knew, not that it made any difference, says but then he knew about Xavier University, knew about Katherine Drexel and whatnot. He says about that time the interview was almost over, I mean it had nothing to do with it in there. And the doctor said to him later on after what they were trying to figure out what he was, because nothing on the application said race or anything at all. But he went through and said, "Yeah, you can't tell well who or what it is." 88 24:57.000 --> 25:04.000 It's funny how people need to know sometimes. There's this sort of, what are you? 89 25:04.000 --> 26:13.000 And it goes back to the thing, if you know, they don't expect Blacks to be able to hold their own. And he knew in addition to what he'd gotten there. I had taught him here, we had taught him here how you go through, what do you do, how you act, what do you say, and things like that. And how you respond, what kind of body language you use. I've done this so I know, and I taught him so he knew what to do. And he also know what to do to give the people what they're looking for. You're looking for a certain kind of stereotype, so okay, I'm going to give you that whether it's true or not, so he knows. So he knew how to interview with them, but he said that that stands out with him. And so he's doing fine with it, but he does not have the problems that we had in terms of door because many doors are open already for him. And his credentials, when you look at it on paper, his credentials are there already so you don't have to have to worry about that. 90 26:13.000 --> 26:34.000 I'm curious about this, and it's not a question I normally ask because I think a lot of times, in some ways it's not always a really fruitful question, but just as far as what you're been saying, it sounds like you feel that there are more opportunities open to Black people. 91 26:34.000 --> 26:35.000 Yes. 92 26:35.000 --> 26:53.000 Now than there were when you were growing up. But it also sounds like there's a form of racism that, as you say, kills you. I mean, not literally on, or sometimes literally, but I'm just wondering if you can. 93 26:53.000 --> 27:48.000 Here's where the subtleness comes in sometimes with it. And if you've got a position that's open and two people apply, same qualification, one's Black and one's White. And it depends upon who the interviewer is. And you've got to make a decision. They're both equal in every respect. Whom do you select? Then what you need to do is go back, get some other criteria to separate the two. But invariably, it's going to come down to a color. That's the subtleness of it. And so you've got to go and be one step ahead in your preparedness. You've got to be able to answer one question a little better. 94 27:48.000 --> 27:55.000 So that it doesn't come down, so that the final deciding factor isn't? 95 27:55.000 --> 27:59.000 Yes, but at least you have the chance to go in and compete for it. 96 27:59.000 --> 27:59.000 And that's the difference. 97 27:59.000 --> 28:44.000 That's the difference. You could not compete for it before. You could not do it. Once you get in and they find out that yes, you can hold your own, then that makes it easier for somebody else coming behind. That barrier then disintegrates if that same person or that same group comes up. But if you change that format, and somebody else comes in there who has not gone, then you go back to the same kind of thing. If they have not come through and have seen you, that's it, see. So it's a matter that you've got to be overly prepared, better prepared in order to get where you've got to go with again. 98 28:44.000 --> 29:35.000 But the chance of getting through, the fact that they would at least let you apply is where some of the opportunity is. And I say by the same token, while it's there, you have got to be prepared. I don't think you have to get it just because I'm Black. Uh-uh, no, you've got to offer people something. Now you may have the edge because if you're going to do something there where we want to get a Black in, fine, but you have to get in on something also. What you know, and you've got to know it. And if you don't know it, shame on you. I've been on interview committees, and I've been criticized because I refuse to hire some of the Blacks because they weren't prepared. 99 29:35.000 --> 30:49.000 I was on an interview committee not too long ago and they wanted a Black. I said, "I'm sorry, I cannot have you hire that Black person. Yes, we need a Black in this position, but the ones who came in are not prepared to do the kind of job that needs to be done. And I will not vote for them. Now you want to throw everybody out and go back and start all over again. I'll buy that. But if you say to me that we've got to make a selection here and now, then I will not accept, I'll vote against this person." And that's, yeah, you've got to have something to offer. I don't care who you are. And if you don't have anything to offer, then you need to go back and get yourself prepared. And it's fine. Yes, we've had the struggle, we've come the long way but the struggle is not over. But you got to do something in the struggle to help getting it by yourself prepared and going on with it. 100 30:49.000 --> 32:03.000 My three kids have had no problems wherever they've gone for anything because we've made sure that they were prepared. My older daughter is in med tech. She finished at UNO, that's the University of New Orleans in med tech. And she did exceptional. She went to the Dominican High School, which was an all girls White high school. That's the school she wanted to. We had our reservations about, well, that's why she wanted to go. Okay, go ahead. And when she finished at UNO, Baptist Hospital had no Blacks working in that tech. So they said to her, we want you to go to Baptist Hospital for your internship. She said okay. She went, and she didn't have to worry about the knowledge of how you do this, how you do that. She could concentrate on the other kind of subtleties putting other people in their place, and do this routinely. So she set the example of people coming says yes, Black can do this. 101 32:03.000 --> 32:06.000 So she took on two jobs. 102 32:06.000 --> 32:10.000 Yes, and that's what you do. And that's the job where you're the first. That's what you've got to do. 103 32:10.000 --> 32:12.000 Not the job. 104 32:12.000 --> 32:59.000 And you've got to be so prepared that you know what you're doing, you don't have to think about it. I look at this class that I teach on Saturday mornings, there are people in there who are in education, all kinds of things. And I say to them that as a teacher, I don't have to worry about whether I know how to do this problem. My concern is looking at you to find, do you understand what it is? Now I've got to spend all my time finding out how to work the problem that I'm not going to teach you. So I can do this routinely because I know it and I know I know it. That I'm looking at the other kind of things that are not as tangible. 105 32:59.000 --> 33:48.000 And that's where this whole racial thing comes up. And it hurts me to see the kids who are not being challenged, where parents have just wiped their hands of them, and they're just out there in left field dangling, doing nothing. We fight. My grandson, "Grandpa, you old-fashioned." I said, "Well, I'll tell you what, as long as you come around here, you're going to have to put up with this old-fashioned grandfather. Now if you don't want to put up with this old fashion grand grandfather, then don't ask me for anything at all." So we have a truce and there are some certain things that he just want. Yeah, okay. But he's beginning to see, now. He's learning. He just graduated from high school. 106 33:48.000 --> 33:49.000 Oh, okay. 107 33:49.000 --> 34:35.000 And he's finding out that some of the things we told him, he didn't do it. He went on his own, and didn't work that way. So he won't admit yet that it wasn't so. But somehow in order to make this country go, we've got to get people to start way down young. Pre-K, kindergarten. And when I see some of these girls, children having children, they having the slightest concept of what's going on in this world. And they don't know what to do with the child, they don't know all the things that they can teach their child from a baby. 108 34:35.000 --> 35:38.000 We were in education and I remember when Michael was the baby, my son Michael was about four years old, four or five years old. And you've heard the expression reading readiness? I don't know whether you heard that in education. It means being ready to read. There's a certain stage at which a child is ready to read. And I never knew what it meant in, I've heard the term, but I was not in elementary education, I was in secondary level. We left from here by car and went up to Chicago, across from Chicago to Detroit, from Detroit to Niagara Falls, down to New York, to the World's Fair when it was there way back in the '60s. From New York to Washington. And we had the three kids. And I remember in the Smithsonian in holding Michael's hand, little five-year-old hanging onto him, and we're going through, he says, "Do not touch." 109 35:38.000 --> 36:19.000 And I says, "Where do you see that?" "Right there." And he says, "Exit. Right there." And something else he says. And I started pointing, what is that? "This way?" What is that? "Do not." I said, "Michael, how do you know what that is?" He said, "Well, we were up Niagara Falls and some other places and that sign was there. And you said, 'Don't touch that.' And I asked you why. And you told me to look at that sign." And I said, "How do you know that's exit?" He said, "That's how you get off the highway." So what about that door? "That's where you get on the highway." 110 36:19.000 --> 36:55.000 And I started listening to things that he was doing. And in Washington, we came back. My wife was from Opelousas and we were going to visit her parents in Opelousas. And just as on the highway, just as you cross the Atchafalaya into Krotz Spring, there's a huge, there's a place called a Capitol House or White House Capitol building, something like that, a restaurant. And we got to this place and Michael speaks up. "White House. That doesn't look like the White House we saw." What is it? "There is right there." And I got the newspaper. 111 36:55.000 --> 37:33.000 I said, "Michael, read this." And he started picking out the words. Now, I know you are ready to read. Because we talked to him. We told him it. It was just the kind of thing that we did as a part of growing, and that's what they need to do. Don't tell me, I don't have time for you. You spend time with them. The other, you heard me say that growing up, we had dinner together. Here in our family, dinner was always at six o'clock. I don't care where you were. Well, my wife and I both worked at six o'clock. We had dinner at six o'clock, whichever one that came in first, you started dinner. 112 37:33.000 --> 37:35.000 Really? Yeah. 113 37:35.000 --> 38:25.000 When the kids would get home, there were some things that they could basically do. Or on the weekends you'd fill things up like that with it. But six o'clock we tried to have dinner on the table, or you had to be here for dinner. Was a time where you talked, you found out what happened during the day, what went on with it. We were at two different high schools were rivals, right? It was at Clark High School. I was at Booker Washington High School. And the kids knew that our football teams were rivals, so they would try to get us into the argument at the table about the two teams. But we talked about everybody, what happened during the day, what's going on. When Rosalie got into med tech, and she started at the table talking about the dissections and "Rosalie, hold it a minute, let me swallow this first." 114 38:25.000 --> 39:05.000 But they got used to the learning process and things like that. And that's the kind of value that you need to, you've got to sit with it instead of just you're on your own. There it is, go get it. Sit and talk with them. What happened today? What did you do? What's going on with it? And that kind of thing. And my grandsons come here, we sit at the table and we talk. And that's the way that you get them with value, you get them across, you know what's going on. And it was no holes barred at the dinner table. You talk about anything you wanted at that table. You might clean it up a little bit. 115 39:05.000 --> 39:12.000 Right. 116 39:12.000 --> 39:30.000 But it was a kind of thing. And that's the kind of values that somewhere, people have to start with it and get it across with it and go from there with it. You've heard me on my pedestal all morning. 117 39:30.000 --> 39:31.000 No, it's great. I have a couple more questions. 118 39:31.000 --> 39:31.000 Sure. 119 39:31.000 --> 40:14.000 And then I think we should start on the family history portion, because you're going to get hoarse after. I bet. What were those questions? Right at the beginning of the interview that I wanted to ask. You were saying earlier that your father brought your brothers, a couple of brothers into carpentry and they did that. Why didn't he go into contracting with his father? 120 40:14.000 --> 40:46.000 There was some family discord. Now, what it was, I really don't know. But I don't think when he went into the carpentry with it, there was not the opportunity to go into the contracting business. Plus, I'm not sure what kind of education my grandfather had, but I think he had more than my daddy had. 121 40:46.000 --> 40:46.000 I'm curious about that. 122 40:46.000 --> 40:47.000 That may have been. Yeah. 123 40:47.000 --> 40:48.000 I'm curious about why that is. 124 40:48.000 --> 40:48.000 I really don't know. 125 40:48.000 --> 40:49.000 Yeah. 126 40:49.000 --> 41:26.000 I really don't know. But when my grandfather went into contracting, it was sometime later on where he went that way. But I think my daddy was more interested in the actual building rather than all the other problems that came on with it. Plus, with the contracting, you need a certain amount of capital to start off with. That may have been with it, I really don't know. 127 41:26.000 --> 41:38.000 I'll tell you why I ask and it's just something that I'm struck by. It sounds like your father had less money than his father. 128 41:38.000 --> 41:38.000 Yes. 129 41:38.000 --> 42:14.000 And I think that some that goes against how, had heard things would go where if your parents had a certain amount of money, then you would equal that or you might be able to. And what they talk about now is that this current generation isn't able to do that. And what strikes me about it is I wonder how much race or Jim Crow segregation, racism, made it difficult for one generation to necessarily get what the parents had. Do you see what I'm? 130 42:14.000 --> 42:14.000 There was not. 131 42:14.000 --> 42:14.000 Asking about? 132 42:14.000 --> 42:16.000 Yeah. 133 42:16.000 --> 42:18.000 It's not as easy to transfer. 134 42:18.000 --> 42:18.000 Right. 135 42:18.000 --> 42:23.000 Those. And I'm, just a hypothesis. 136 42:23.000 --> 43:30.000 My father left us nothing other than a house that was not paid for, but in terms of he was not able to earn enough money to accumulate that you could save and whatnot. And the opportunities were not there for it. Now I don't know what other opportunities my grandfather had had, but I assume that education wise, my grandfather had more by virtue of the fact that he taught industrial arts at the high school. So I'm assuming that he had that, and I'm assuming then that he probably had some other kinds of assets that he acquired somewhere along the line. I really don't know with there that. I know that these other sons did not go, they stayed in the trades as a person with it there. But it could be that when they were growing up and they had, each one of them had these different kind of specialties. 137 43:30.000 --> 44:24.000 He used them as a, I'm assuming something. I don't know that that was so. See, because I know my daddy's brothers moved to Chicago when I was a very early age. Only one of them I knew of here in New Orleans where he moved. But the other two brothers, as far as I knew, were always in Chicago from what I knew. Now, before I was born, it could be that he used them as a family business with it in there. And then when he stopped his business, they were already entrenched into what they were doing into that. Especially because with the contract, you've got to know other kinds of areas with that. That could be an answer. I really don't know. 138 44:24.000 --> 44:24.000 Yeah. 139 44:24.000 --> 44:45.000 I really don't know that then. 140 44:45.000 --> 45:00.000 I have a little question. I guess it's just, again, these are all little questions. You had mentioned, I think you had started to talk about at one point, Whites in the surrounding area would occasionally come in to play ball with people in your neighborhood? 141 45:00.000 --> 45:01.000 Yeah. 142 45:01.000 --> 45:05.000 Were you going to say anything else about that or about that, just that they did? That there was— 143 45:05.000 --> 45:05.000 It was just. Yeah, there was sometimes. 144 45:05.000 --> 45:12.000 Sometimes, and then you would go your separate ways. 145 45:12.000 --> 45:12.000 Yeah. 146 45:12.000 --> 45:12.000 And that was the social time. 147 45:12.000 --> 45:15.000 This little island right here, there was a space in here. So some of the guys who lived maybe over on this street. 148 45:15.000 --> 45:17.000 The White guys would come in. 149 45:17.000 --> 45:23.000 Would come in and they would mix in with them, or from the other, would mix in with them and play for it. That's the only thing with it. 150 45:23.000 --> 45:23.000 And am I right that Dryades, is that how you pronounce it? 151 45:23.000 --> 45:29.000 Yeah, Dryades. 152 45:29.000 --> 45:34.000 Dryades Street. Were there a lot of Black owned shops on that street? I know it was a prosperous. 153 45:34.000 --> 45:38.000 Yeah. The businesses were primarily operated by Jews. 154 45:38.000 --> 45:39.000 Oh, okay. 155 45:39.000 --> 45:41.000 Yeah. It was a Jewish. 156 45:41.000 --> 45:43.000 But it was an area that was open? 157 45:43.000 --> 45:47.000 Yeah. Well, Blacks primarily shopped there. It was open to everybody. 158 45:47.000 --> 45:47.000 I see. 159 45:47.000 --> 45:56.000 But it was the uptown area for shopping for Blacks. You didn't have to go all the way to Canal Street. 160 45:56.000 --> 46:00.000 And you didn't have to worry about being turned away or not being looked upon. 161 46:00.000 --> 46:00.000 Right. Yeah. 162 46:00.000 --> 46:05.000 And then you had full access to the merchandise. 163 46:05.000 --> 46:34.000 There was still some segregation, racism there, but it was not as, these were not the Holmes, the Dillards, that type of stores. You had shops, small shops there, what you call mom and pop shops, things like that with it. There was Woolworth there. There were dress shops. There were men's stores, all kinds of things in that area.