Leslie Brown: If one of my students were to ask—my students— If one of my students were to ask you why were people protesting in the 60s? What would you tell them? 

Margaret Turner: Well, we had been treated so wrong so long and we just, like I said a while ago, we wanted equal opportunities you see, because they had had us behind them all the time and they still try to keep us behind them. And it's not right. It's not right. And we are human too, just like they are. And we all come from the same sea, same part. That's right. Adam and Eve was the mother and father of the whole nation and they are no better than we are and the color of our skin have nothing to do with it. But they thought by them being fair that they were over us. You know what I mean? I don't know how they were taught that. And I don't agree with it and I just don't—I wouldn't accept it. I can't accept that. And that's what I would tell them. I can't accept that. Uh-huh. 

Margaret Turner: Because we have any color that we want in our own family. And the White man is the cause of that being messed up. Because if we were Africans, we would look like Africans, you see? But we a part of them, we are part of the White community. You see what I mean? And some was part of Jews. Because Sam Davis Jr. Said, he said he was a Jew. And I talked like what? Something somewhere in it because all my family talk fast. And my son, he talk real fast and my sister's son too. I can't hardly understand him sometimes. I'd say, what's that he said? 

Margaret Turner: Yeah. So that's what I would say. I don't ever be satisfied because things haven't been changed. We have closed down everything. They closed down—In fact, they closed down everything that we participated in to keep from hiring us. So, because downtown looked like a ghost town. They moved everything from downtown. We closed it up. They had going down that problem to do but move cause we wasn't trading with them. And I'll tell you another thing would help too. I think if we would have another big boycott on all of these stores where they don't have—They might have one person, one or two persons and then it's when they hired one or two Black people, it's always a White one over. See what I'm saying? And so I just don't accept what they do because it's not fair, not fair to our people. We don't want everything for ourselves, but we want equal rights. 

Margaret Turner: And that's the only way we're going get them. We going have to fight for it and seem like to be, we just going to keep on fighting. But I'm going to keep on fighting until I can't fighting no more. That's the best I can do. And I hope a lot of people will take the same idea that I have and try to move on. You see? Because we have a lot of Black people, I mean in my age group and was my age group at the time. But they didn't participate in these things. See what I mean? You didn't see them out there on the picket line. 

Leslie Brown: Well why do you think didn't—Why didn't they participate? 

Margaret Turner: Well my whole lot of them was afraid. I mean they just didn't have that—They just didn't have that push. They sit back and wait for somebody else to do it. 

Leslie Brown: Do you think some people were satisfied? 

Margaret Turner: Well yeah. All about them satisfied right now. First thing they'll say, well we doing pretty good. We doing better than we was. Well what's that say? Doing better than you was? You still ain't doing nothing. I don't think so. I think you're doing worse because if nothing moved and only way we can move it, we going to have to stop our money from coming in, from going out to them. You see what I mean? They got it tied up now and we have to spend our money with them if we want something to wear. Ain't that right, that's right. If we want some glasses, eye glasses or something, nine times out of ten we got to go to them. We do have one or two our doctors. But yet still, if we want to build a house, we still have to go to them. If we want to buy material for the house, we still have to go to there. So it's just one of those things we just.. It's just not fair. 

Margaret Turner: And I tell you something else I believe too, I believe the reason they built [indistinct 00:05:21] to build those houses over there in Emory Woods is to put the Black people over there together. See I can see, I might not see like you see, but I can see like I see. I feel like that he put those houses over there, Emery Wood Estate, because he know no White folks won't going over there to live. And he put over there and call it fixing for the Black folk. And they fell in there too. 

Margaret Turner: Just like over here I am. When I moved over here, White people was living all up on Alston Avenue and they moved out. They sold all the houses and Black people bought them even up there where the center is. That was in schools and he was a sausage man, and he lived up there right on the corner of Nixon and Alston Avenue, that big long brick house. He lived in front of the center up there. He sold all that property to the center. To the city, I mean. 

Margaret Turner: And he way out on Alston Avenue back out the county. Because they had two big lakes up there. I used to go up there and fish. He closed—Yeah. Got one part of one down there now down there at the bottom behind the center. And so I still feel like that they didn't want to be around us. Well I can't, I'm not going to say anything too bad about that because it's something I don't want to be around. Some of my own and some of them too. But it don't make no difference who I'm around as long as they treat me nice. I don't care what color they are and whatnot. Because I can get along with anybody. I can get along with anybody as long as I can get along with my dog. That's right. He loves me. 

Leslie Brown: Now the other day you were telling me about laying down on the parking lot in Sears. 

Margaret Turner: Oh yeah. 

Leslie Brown: Holding the American flag. 

Margaret Turner: Yeah. 

Leslie Brown: I've told a lot of people that story. I also told them what you told me about who came in the back door. 

Margaret Turner: Oh yeah you did. Yeah, I told you I didn't care about you telling them I tell them to the face. Even one of them living you. The one I will, I'll tell in a minute. A son too. All of them. 

Leslie Brown: What— 

Margaret Turner: I mean they supposed to be my leaders. Our leaders. That's what they always call them. Our leaders, they the Black leaders. But they weren't my leaders. See God was my leader. You see? And he gave me my knowledge to do what I'm supposed to do. You see, although—Whether they accepted me or not, I didn't care about that. I'm doing what I'm supposed to do. 

Leslie Brown: Did you think they didn't accept you? 

Margaret Turner: Mm-mm. Yeah, I had one person when that picture came out in the paper in February during the— 

Leslie Brown: Saw that— 

Margaret Turner: Yes. When it come out, one person, Ruth Spaulding. Ruth sent me a card congratulating me. She said it was about time. That's what she said. 

Margaret Turner: And I know the rest of them know me. I know they know me because I've been around a long time. Because McKissick told them about it when they were there at the meeting at the student union a few years ago. He called me up there on the platform where he was. I was sitting in the audience. Because he had called me and told me he wanted me there. 

Margaret Turner: And Vivian was there and Viola and Geraldine Sanders. And they worked along with me too. And they were there, and he had me come up there and stand on the stage with him and he told them who I was. And he said, you all sitting out there with all those PhDs and all them other things that go with it and say here's—Ms. Turner right here said she don't have all that said, but she done more than you all ever done. Yes, that's what they told them. So they know me. Lou Barnes at the Student Union now she know me too, but she's nice. So she's very nice. But when I had death in my family, when I lost a mother, lost a sister, none of them call. Dr. Williams and the group there at the center, they sent me a check and everybody put their name on the card and sent to me. That was nice. But the rest of them, they didn't send me anything. 

Margaret Turner: I mean they didn't have to send him anything. Could have called or sent me a little card or something. Because every time somebody—If anybody dies, and I know they live here in Durham and I know if they're leaders or whatnot, if they're not leaders, if they're people that I know and I'll send them a card because I keep cards. And I got send them a card to this lady's family that died the other day and it's in the paper this morning I knew she had died. And so my daughter asked me, she said, "you going to send them a card?" I said, "yeah, I'm going to send them a card." She said, "well they didn't send—" I said, "I got nothing with that." I said, "I'm going to send them a card, that's all." 

Leslie Brown: You told me you were never scared during any of those demonstrations. 

Margaret Turner: I'm still not scared. 

Leslie Brown: So you could lay down on the parking lot in Sears— 

Margaret Turner: Oh yes. And see. Yeah. But that was way back there too that—Just remember what year that was. But in the meantime, whatever year it was, I was out there. Not only that, I did the same thing at Chapel Hill. Because I have a friend, I came over there with me because this guy was trying to tell you about yesterday, I couldn't think of his name, his name was Don Myers. He was a law student at the Duke. And me and Don was kind of good friends. And so Don called me and on Sunday evening and he said, Margaret, I think so let's go with the Chapel Hill. I said, I don't care if we do. No, it was on Saturday. Was it Saturday? 

Margaret Turner: It was sat Friday. I mean it was Saturday or Sunday evening. And so I went and got this friend of mine. I tried to get her involved. And so we went over there. She could tell you about it. And yeah, I was out there laying all that traffic out there in Chapel Hill on the Franklin Street. And while I was laying out there, they was arresting my children. And so I rushed on down to the—No, the time before then I was with the children, but I didn't get arrested because I had to take care of them. If anything happened I had to call in and get help. And so we were trying to get into this cafe up there on Franklin Street. It was that close to, it was up that close to the church. First Baptist Church was right around the corner. 

Margaret Turner: And we was trying to get into that. And the children had, they was—When they was trying to get in, the policemen was there and they started arresting them. And so he picked up my daughter and picked up by one leg and the other leg was hanging down. And I told him, I said, wait a minute. I said, you pick her up like she's supposed to be picked up. I said, you don't pick her up by the leg right there. I said, you pick her up like she's a lady. Because they didn't care. Had one arm up and the other leg. The other leg hanging down. 

Margaret Turner: Yeah, I was out there and up to Sears, as I told you about up the up to Sears. I was up there laying down in the parking lot when the children came, when the guy came. I was trying to think of what the guy's name was. But I have a lot of students from Central. They all followed me. See, because I was there—While Mack was doing something else, I was doing something else. You see. But we didn't have nobody else out there unless we had Jocelyn Hill and her daughter. And we had some of the students taking charge of different groups. You know what I'm saying? So my group went to Sears. Yeah. 

Leslie Brown: So you were at Sears and you told me about the march to Chapel Hill. 

Margaret Turner: Oh yes. 

Leslie Brown: And you told me about the cafe in Chapel Hill and you told me about Howard Johnson's. 

Margaret Turner: Yes. 

Leslie Brown: And what else were you going to tell me about? 

Margaret Turner: I told you about—I've already told you about the March on Washington and some of that happenings there and see what else we got there— 

Leslie Brown: Well you said you wanted to tell me about a song. 

Margaret Turner: Oh yes. Oh the song that— 

Leslie Brown: "Walk Together Children—" 

Margaret Turner: Yeah. "Don't you get weary?" Yes. Yeah. You know this teacher I was telling you about Ms. Grissom, that was our song we sung every morning at the [indistinct 00:16:20] we have every day. So during the years, I told you I didn't think—I thought about the song but I didn't think about the meeting of it until I went to the last March in Washington. That's when it come to me. Walk together, children, don't you get weary, there's a great camp meeting in the Promised Land. 

Margaret Turner: And I worked it out, walked together children. I said that's the time I went to the March on Washington. That's the first time. And said, "Don't you get weary?" And I said, I told Carl and Dorothy Ruffin and I said, "I didn't get tired at all," really at all, we didn't have to lay down anything, I mean to rest ourselves because we were just in it. You know what I mean? We were all in it. We just didn't, I mean we didn't tire. We didn't get tired at all. And say, "There's a great camp meeting in the Promised Land." 

Margaret Turner: And I said, "Well it was a great camp meeting." All those people were there and that was a promised land for us at that time. And I wrote that thing out and that paper out and I said that's the reason I went to the March on Washington. I didn't have to realize why I went three times. Because I told my daughter the last time she had never been because she was young at the time. And we were going to New Jersey to take my grandson to my daughter. He was going to stay with her and go to school that year. And so we stopped at the March on Washington because Amber was going to be at the march from New Jersey. Because she wasn't going to miss either. She didn't miss. And so she enjoyed it. She enjoyed it so much. And I told her, I said, well I'm going. 

Margaret Turner: I said, if I'm in the wheelchair, I'm still going. I said, cause this is one march can't go without me. And she enjoyed it. And after we left there, we went on to went New Jersey and we got there before Al did. Because Al came with the group, with her group on the chapter there in New Jersey. Because she works with them too. Because she send me all the alumni papers from Central. I keep them, put them in my scrapbook. And so Margaret Ann talked about it now. She really liked it and I was glad she did and seemed like everywhere I would go, it was somebody—Especially in the freedom marches or any other thing that I'm in and I have my hat or something, they always stop. 

Margaret Turner: They want to make my picture or something. So that's what they did in Washington. All the newspapers come by. And when I knew anything it was one photographer stooping right there in front of me. I was sitting on the bench and I had my hat on my lap and they was, but they would never do it unless they asked me. And so it had been something that nobody didn't have but me. And I did see somebody else trying to get it back together. But a lot of times you find a lot of things that people does and interests you and you might try it yourself. You know what I mean? So I think that's what happened. They've tried it themselves. And people were coming by on the second March on Washington. 

Margaret Turner: They were coming by when I was laying down on the—I was laying the ground right at Lincoln Monument. I was tired that day. It was hot out there. And so I was laying down and I had my hat pulled down on my face to shield the sun. And then I had my black backpack laying. I had just laid it over there where I had my little things in, my cooler and everything in. And I heard something click and I looked up and there was a Black guy taking my picture while I laying down there. And I told him, I said, "Wait son" I said, "Here, take my camera and make me some." (laughs) So he did. 

Margaret Turner: I don't know who he was. And people were coming, was meeting me and giving me buttons. They were giving me buttons. Especially White people, Black ones. I think they were trying to keep them. But the White people were passing and if they had buttons they would give them to me. And I kept all that stuff. So it was very enjoyable and very educational. And anytime that I can participate in something, I don't have be seen now all the time. If it's anything like freedom, I'm there. I'm ready to go. So if anything else happen, if I can't walk, I'm going. Somebody going to carry me. Yes, somebody going to have to carry me. Yes. And so far so good. We still, things haven't turn out like I want them to turn out. So I keep moving forward as far as I can. Just like the good book says "ask and ye shall receive, seeking and ye shall find." 

Margaret Turner: But if you sit down and don't do nothing, you ain't going to find nothing. So that's my motto is to seek. And I'm always seeking trying to find something. Because I've had my grandson saying, what you cutting all this stuff out for? So you cutting out that stuff out for, I said, you don't have the mind that I have. You don't know why I cut it out. This is me. I said, you do your thing, I do mine. This is—That's my interest in life. I feel like that I'm a part of a living. I'm a part of this world and I'm supposed to do some of the things that I want to do. Especially if they're all right. If they're write constructive things, I don't believe in them. I don't like my mess now. 

Margaret Turner: I don't like no mess. I don't deal with that. I don't deal with nobody. Not the matter that I'm in the battle, but I try to deal with decent life and I don't have nothing to worry about. See what I'm saying? I'm happy every day. That's right. I don't have nothing to worry about. I don't have to worry about where my next piece of bread is coming from because I prepared for that a long time ago. See what I mean? And my grandmother used to sing this song "By and by, when the morning come, all the saints of God gathered home. We would tell the story how we overcome, we'll understand it better, by and by." 

Leslie Brown: My mother used to sing that. My mother used to sing that. 

Margaret Turner: Yeah. And grandma could sing that song too. Her voice was a little cracky at that time by her being that age. But she could sing her songs and she used to sing other "But how tedious and tasting sour, when Jesus no longer I see, sweet birds and sweet something, sweet flowers have all lost their sweetness to me." And she used to sing all those and I didn't have—The least I did that they had a meaning. Those songs had a meaning. But one thing about the Black preacher, I don't know about the White preacher, but one thing about the Black preacher, I think the reason that the children doesn't cater to the church they used to because they don't have the leadership they need for this day and time. 

Margaret Turner: This is a due day. You don't keep preaching hell and damnation to the kids. You see and you don't call altar prayers every Sunday for you to come and be saved. You're already saved. What you going up there for? What you going up there to get on your knees for somebody say, oh, she went to the altar today. See what I'm saying? And so I feel like it's just a waste of time. Because once you in Christ, you're always in it. You don't have to go down and ask the Lord the same thing every Sunday. Do you think so? 

Leslie Brown: No, I think you [indistinct 00:26:09]— 

Margaret Turner: You're already saved. You asked him to save you and he accepted it. He heard you the first time. You don't have to keep telling him the same thing over and over again. He heard you the first time and it's up to you to apply yourself to it. That's the way I feel about it. I mean I don't cold water nobody for doing that. But I still say I think that's one reason that these children just don't, they just don't have no interest in them. And you have to do something to interest them in this day and time. You see because this is a new generation. You don't expect for them children to come up like I did. I expect for them children to do like I did. 

Margaret Turner: I didn't have what they have. I didn't have no TV. We had a radio and a little more organ or something like that. You see what I'm saying? But we didn't have what they have, what they got now. They got everything. We didn't have the parks and things that these children have. See what I'm saying? When we had a picnic or something, we had to go [indistinct 00:27:23] somewhere and ride on the old truck there. Looked like it was going break down and if you leaned over there too far on the side of the truck, everything, it would go this way. It had some stakes there. Hold them, hold that what you call them on the side? 

Margaret Turner: And sometimes that little truck be going and you be hanging on now trying to get to the park. We didn't have nothing in Durham. And that park they had over there, Chavis Park, I believe it was. Chavis or Pullen Park, one in Raleigh. And that's where we had to go for our picnics. And so these children don't have to do that. They got everything that they need here, which we didn't have. And so you don't expect for them to act like we had to. People say, oh that's a bad one. You were bad yourself. You weren't good. You were bad yourself. I was devil. I was a little devil at times. 

Margaret Turner: But one thing about it, we got the good whooping and that helped too. Because if we hadn't got that good whooping, we'd probably be acting like some of them act today. But see you can't whoop your own child now because the Lord don't allow it. And that's another thing against, that's right. That's another thing against it. We got more children in school now. Got children in college. And I was reading another article in the paper this morning where it say that the White children smokes more than the Black children. But see one thing about our Black children, they're not going to smoke because they're athletes and they can't smoke being athletes and them is not athletes. They think it's a disgrace. See what I say. 

Margaret Turner: And that's one reason why they're trying to get rid of the cigarettes you see. But that cigarette, that tobacco have done a lot for the people, especially the Black people. And the poor Whites too have done a lot for them because a lot of people got homes, you know that the Black people got homes you know that they couldn't afford before because they didn't make no money. You see. And the Black man is not responsible for not the cause rather of all Black people having homes. The White man only let you have the money. See what I mean? Especially if you had a job. 

Leslie Brown: Yeah. You were saying that. You were saying that the other day that it was White banks that lent people money and that not all Black people helped all Black people. 

Margaret Turner: No, I mean no. We have a lot of, I mean that's why I got my money from and they found out that I was working at the American Tobacco Company and I had good credit. That was the main thing. You had good credit, you pay your bills on time and all. Because that's what I always did. I pay all my bills on time. Sometime I pay them before time. Just like I've already put my bills in the mail for the month already for September. But see everything but my telephone bill just come so I'm going to fix that check. I put it out there tomorrow. See what I'm saying? Because I said I looked at my bill last night and I said good gracious, my bills is over a thousand dollars this month. See because I had car insurance and a whole lot of things I had with vehicle insurance, tax. It's a tax they added on to you downtown and tax on my house. I sent that to my lender. 

Margaret Turner: See cause I said that's one reason why I left it. Because my tax was 800 something dollars. Yeah. And so I sent it to them because they supposed to pay for it until I pay for my house and I can pay for my house when they get ready because I don't owe much, don't work much more on it that I can't pay it off. But I was just waiting. I said well I just made it go like that because that little interest that I pay, it's all right. Not the matter I can, if anything happened to me, they could pay it right on off if they want to, because the children don't even want what you got today. I can't blame because I didn't want what my mama had. Because see at that time they didn't save nothing. They get new furniture if they want it, throw that other out, you see. 

Margaret Turner: But a lot of times you didn't do it like that. Because some pieces you take care of it just like my mama's table here and this here too. And I got a whole lot of stuff. I just didn't throw away my stuff. I got a lot of stuff out there in my utility house right now. Yeah. So I don't owe no furniture bills. But the way I feel, I feel like I want a better house. I want a better house because they making the rooms larger now. And then if I had a better house, you see I could have my own place to put all my stuff. I was thinking about closing in my patio out there and putting the top open and having it fixed. And I could use that— 

Leslie Brown: As a place to work. 

Margaret Turner: Said what now? 

Leslie Brown: As a place to work. You would work out there. Would that be your be your place [indistinct 00:33:24]— 

Margaret Turner: Yeah. For the time being. Yeah, for the time being until I moved it somewhere else. 

Leslie Brown: Well I have just one last question I have to ask. 

Margaret Turner: All right. 

Leslie Brown: And it's something I keep coming across. It seems that the NAACP had a hard time getting started in Durham in the 30s and the 40s. Was that true? 

Margaret Turner: Yeah, because I mean it was something that the people wasn't used to. I mean because it was a big time thing, a national thing. See what I mean? And it's still a national thing because a little man don't even have a peep in. See what I mean? They still don't have a peep in. They wouldn't choose me for anything. Well I'm a lifetime member, but they wouldn't choose me for anything because I'm me. You know what I mean? I'm here. 

Margaret Turner: So that's the way that is. And then too, on the other hand, a lot of people didn't never join NAACP. But you had to have something within you to realize what you was getting into. What it meant to you. Okay. And so that's one reason why I joined it. As I told you before, it was already in me that I wanted to move forward and I wanted something happen. I wanted some happenings, I wanted some changes made. But the biggest majority of the NAACP members, I mean when they go to the conventions and thing, they go for big time. They go to the highest hotels. It is. And you can't hardly stay at no hundred dollars a night. And you got to be in that movement with them close by them in some office or something. Or some delegator or something that they chose in order to stay in hotel. 

Leslie Brown: In 1945, that's when you went to work in the tobacco factories. 

Margaret Turner: And that's when I joined NAACP. 

Leslie Brown: And that's when you joined the NAACP? Well there was the Durham Committee on Negro Affairs and there was the NAACP and was there anything else? Were there any other organizations? 

Margaret Turner: Yeah, we had the Ministerial Alliance— 

Leslie Brown: Ministerial Alliance. 

Margaret Turner: Black Ministerial Alliance. And now they got two, got a Black one and White and Black together. I think they rezoned it or something. Because my pastor Reverend [indistinct 00:36:18], he belonged to the one downtown. 

Leslie Brown: Now were there a different group of people active in the NAACP than were active with the Durham Committee? Were they different groups of people? 

Margaret Turner: It's still the same way with the Durham Committee. Oh it was different people that some people, the biggest majority of Black people didn't belong to the Durham Committee because it wasn't big enough. You understand what I'm saying? They wasn't big enough. The shoes was too small at that time and they didn't apply themselves. But you had to be political wise, you know what I'm saying? You had to have that political sense of getting in there with them— 

Leslie Brown: To belong to the— 

Margaret Turner: To be interested in the— 

Leslie Brown: Durham Committee. 

Margaret Turner: Yeah, that's what you had to do. 

Leslie Brown: So you had to— 

Margaret Turner: I worked on the poll. I worked on the poll just like I told you where I would go. I always wanted to move forward. I always chose things that had some meaning to it for me and those things like that. I say with the higher up doings, things to be done. That's what I wanted to be. So I was just a little person, but I was there. 

Leslie Brown: But you were there. 

Margaret Turner: Yeah. 

Leslie Brown: Now. But people could belong to the NAACP and they didn't have to be— 

Margaret Turner: [indistinct 00:38:09]? 

Leslie Brown: One of the big shots. 

Margaret Turner: Oh, anybody? Yeah, anybody could be belong to the NAACP. Because you don't find many people at my church that belong to it. If they do, they probably they comers. Because I used to write memberships for some of them there, but they hadn't called me for any. So I don't know whether they still are members or not. Because I write memberships now. I mean I don't ask nobody nothing. If anybody want a membership, I got Terry here. I write and send it in. I don't send it to the office. Because if I send it to the office, no telling when they get it and I just send it on to New York and then they come back to them. That's the way I do. So they don't have to wait until they get ready to send down memberships out. 

Leslie Brown: And how did you join—How did people join the NAACP in 1940s—? 

Margaret Turner: Well, through somebody else. 

Leslie Brown: Through somebody else— 

Margaret Turner: Joined through somebody else. Like I told you what happened to me. This lady was working with me and her husband was membership—Was working on the membership drive. And so she asked me. 

Leslie Brown: And the woman that worked with you, did she work at American Tobacco? 

Margaret Turner: Yes. Yeah. Her husband worked at the American Tobacco Company also. 

Leslie Brown: So people would talk at work about the NAACP— 

Margaret Turner: Oh yeah. Well see, she knew what her husband was doing and so she brought that to me. But I don't know who else she asked. But a whole lot of them from the American Tobacco Company, they get [indistinct 00:39:39] to join NAACP and a whole lot of them belong to it now. But then they're not life members. Some of them it's life. But I paid up my life because I felt like that paying up my life, I would save money. You will save money. 

Leslie Brown: That's true. 

Margaret Turner: Yeah. Because you're paying every year maybe 10 or $20 every year. 

Leslie Brown: Well how come so many people from the tobacco factories join the NAACP? 

Margaret Turner: Well one thing about it, the ministers stretched the point and some people fall for what the minister said and he could tell you exactly what the meaning of it was, how much it meant to you and how much it meant to the community. And so that's one reason I think that the—And then two, the people in the churches was outstanding people regardless of where they come from. They was characteristic [indistinct 00:40:37] people, people that you could say that's my church member. You know what I mean? They took part in it, in church leadership. And during that time we had caucus. I mean we had catechism, the leading of the church and all that stuff. 

Margaret Turner: You see. I don't think these kids get that now. We had leadership training because we had leadership training at Livingstone College. And then when our other pastor came, Reverend Speaks came, Reverend Perry had to go to Livingstone College. And when Reverend Speaks came, we had it—At St. Mark. I got three diplomas. I got one in youth, I got one in church worship and something else. There's three of them that I got the diplomas in. And that leadership training. And see that was, and it wasn't many people that applied themselves to that leadership training. 

Leslie Brown: So how did you become a part of leadership training in the church? As a youth or as a young person? 

Margaret Turner: How did I come a part? Well, I was a little church going girl. That's what I always said. I was a little church going girl. And just like I tell you a while ago, I always wanted to be into something that was constructive and that was something that had a meaning to it. And it was just in me. And so— 

Leslie Brown: It was something you wanted to do. Did somebody encourage you? Did people encourage you? 

Margaret Turner: No, I encouraged myself. 

Leslie Brown: So you just chose— 

Margaret Turner: I just chose what I wanted to do because I wanted to do good things I thought was good. I wanted to do the best that I could. I didn't want to be lagging behind there, running around everywhere and being talked about and all that stuff. So I didn't want that because that wasn't me. I was me. When I could do something worthwhile and feel good about it. Just like now I feel good about what I do. 

Margaret Turner: Let's read—I'm helping you. See what I'm saying? Because if I didn't have no interest in it, I wouldn't even be bothered with it. Because we stayed here about four hours of the day, didn't we? And if I don't care how many more it take I with you, I help you do all I can to help you. Anything that I can do to help you do that. Because I put off a whole lot of things that I could be doing. See what I mean? But see this where my blessings come from. See if I don't ever do nothing for nobody but myself, the Lord can't bless me. What can he bless me with? Nothing. 

Leslie Brown: Well, I don't have any other questions.