WEBVTT 1 00:07.000 --> 00:10.000 You said your third daughter went to Germany? 2 00:10.000 --> 01:36.000 Oh, she was there for a year because her husband was a chaplain in the army and a lieutenant captain and some of her children was born in Germany. The second girl, she teaches in Jackson. The first girl, she was—All three of them worked in the public schools here, but they left when they got married. They went to another place. So she's in Ohio. One at the top is in Ohio. She works with a daycare and she works at night part-time with Jesse Penny. The fourth girl down here, she has a daycare center in Chicago. And this little girl down here, that's the youngest daughter. She has real long pretty hair and she didn't have nothing much when she had that picture made, but she has long pretty hair. And she's been in France. She stayed there a number of years in the Army. She was in the Army and after she came back, she was still in reserve. That made her be in this— 3 01:36.000 --> 01:43.000 National Guard? 4 01:43.000 --> 02:46.000 No, this place where those children got burned up, all those children, Desert Storm, she was there. She and my grandson, one of my grandsons were there together in that, whatever it was, that fighting or whatever was going on. The boy by her, that's my baby. He doesn't have all that long hair anymore. He's clean haired. He's 33. And that girl is older than he is and he's been in Germany a number of years or, Ohio, Chicago, everywhere. And he's back home now. He's the one live over there in the trailer. He been away for years. And so he come back. Nobody here but dad and myself. So he and his wife is here now. This is their son. 5 02:46.000 --> 03:54.000 The one at the top young, that's just James Jr. He lives in St. Louis, Missouri. He working there. The second is Willie. He has his own business in Washington, DC. The next one is Clinton. He's a twin. He's the one used to teach at college at Saints. He's a young man too. And he had some smart children. His wife was a teacher. He had some smart children too. They mostly all of them, mostly grown his children. And the third down the fourth boy, that's Harold. Harold and this girl over here about with the red bow, it's twins Harold and Carol. They're twins. Harold is in Jackson. He was working at Jackson State and UPS. UPS was paying most money, giving him a raise. And he left Jackson State and went to UPS and he's still with UPS and been there with them for years. 6 03:54.000 --> 04:49.000 So they all doing something for themselves and I'm proud of that. That's my family and what they are doing. Some teachers, some preachers, some mechanics, different things and some ain't nothing. So why would I say it like that? Because they won't even try. They not just out there. But I look for them. They not living on us but I look for them to make a life for themselves. They're not in the drug business. 7 04:49.000 --> 05:10.000 They're not, if they're alcoholics, I don't know that. I know one or two of them drinks but I haven't seen them. All they do they tell me, "You can't prove it." I sure can't. Okay. Okay. 8 05:10.000 --> 05:35.000 Was it hard providing for your children? Yeah. When you had your family, I mean I guess how was it economically when you trying to raise your children? You have those tough times? 9 05:35.000 --> 07:16.000 Sometimes. At times though, sometimes it seemed like we couldn't make ends meet until we got to the place where some was large enough to help themselves and to help others too. And then when it come to clothing, by me sewing I could make some of the things that they needed and then by others. But after, for a long time, for a number of years, well I say from the '60s, from the latter '50s and '60s and through the '60s there were friends that came in to help the needed like at Saints, Saints would hire Black and White teachers there, all right? Some of the White teachers were Mennonites. And at that time I was recruiting clothes for the children to go to school, any children. I was recruiting that. And this Mennonite asked me, "Ms. Russell, what are you doing?" And when I told him, he said, "Let us help you." I didn't know that they were rich people at that time. 10 07:16.000 --> 08:07.000 And I said, well that was on Friday. I said, "Wait until Monday." When I went back Monday he already had three bales of clothes, brand new clothes, shoes and clothes, everything. Didn't have to go for no help for any help. They had them there ready for me. And from then up to now they are still helping some way or another. Now he passed on. He sat up in his chair one morning and died. But his wife, every once in a while she'll send me a little check if it's not but $30 she'll send a little check and said, "We want to keep in touch." She and another family named Crowder. 11 08:07.000 --> 09:10.000 From that time what they remember, Mrs. Crowder sent boxes of clothes for my children. They stayed in school and in fact the Lord just helped me take care of my children. The Lord was in the plan because when my husband was so sick and stayed in the hospital three months at a time, I almost gave up. But I had a mind that it's just something deep within telling me, "I was going to make it." And I didn't know how I was going to send my children to school through the winter. And one young white girl come through said, "The Lord told her to drive through this way." And when she drove through this way, coming in from that way, this road is made like a horseshoe. She said when she got here, said the spirit told her to stop. And when she stopped she come in, she didn't know me and I didn't know her and she asked how we were doing and everything. 12 09:10.000 --> 10:21.000 And when she found out my husband was in the hospital, she said, "What your children going to do about clothes?" I said, "I don't know." She said, "Well Christmas coming on, what they going to do about toys?" I said, "They won't have any toys. They won't have any toys." She said, "Oh yes they will." I said, "No, I know they won't have any toys." She said, "Well let's just see." That was the end of that. She came back just before the day before Christmas Eve. She brought a ton of blue jeans. She brought enough clothes for my boy. I had six boys. She brought enough clothes for all of my boys to go through the whole school term and enough toys, more toys than they had ever had in their life. They could have two and three toys each. A big trucks, trains, everything. All them you named dolls and everything. 13 10:21.000 --> 11:21.000 So I just said Lord was in the plan because I didn't know her and she didn't know me. But she said her mother did that kind of work for people. They didn't live here, they lived away. And she came through the community and she started working out at Lexington for what you call it, as a social worker. And that's what happened. And that's what happened all the way down through the years. The Lord always made a way for us, always made a way. And sometime when I didn't have a dime, didn't know where I was going to get the next money or the next meal from, when I go to the mailbox, there's a check in there for $100. And one time I actually cried. 14 11:21.000 --> 12:29.000 I said, "Now who could send me $100 and just sign an initial?" And one time I got a box of nice clothes and they wouldn't tell me who sent the clothes. I just had a note and said, "I know you don't know who this is and I'm not going to tell you," but the box was from Chicago. And say, "But I know you have young children and I figured you could use these clothes." And they were girl clothes and I was so happy. I said, "I just wish I knew who it was so I could thank them." And my husband said, "Don't worry about it, just use the clothes." I said, "But I am concerned. I just want to let them know I got the clothes." I said, "They should at least let me know enough to find out where they are and who they are. But I don't have an address other than Chicago." 15 12:29.000 --> 13:52.000 But the Lord just had been working with us and taking care of us all the way. And January this year my husband had a stroke. Got out of it and went on about his business and it twisted his one leg in and got it shorter than the other one, but he's still going on and April he had another stroke. It affected his speech. He makes his sentences backward but he's still going on. I don't have to wait on him. When I wake up in the morning, he has already fixed breakfast and has eaten. Took his bath, got his clothes on, looking at the news or whatever. And I had a stroke in April, March. And so we still carrying on, both of us and we can cook and feed ourselves and everything. And I think it's just great. The Lord is blessing us and as the Lord bless us, we tries to bless someone else and we try to train our children up in the right way so they'll know how to treat other people, their families plus other people. 16 13:52.000 --> 14:04.000 Could you tell me some more about what it means to—When you say train the children in the right way, what did you mean? 17 14:04.000 --> 15:00.000 What I mean about that, in this life you meet up with many obstacles in life and you can't fight back all the time. There's some things you just got to take. It doesn't mean that you have to let a person run over you all the time, but there's some things you can really take. You can hush your mouth sometimes. If a person call you a bad name, you know you not that. You don't have to haul off and slap him, hit him or whatnot, then you don't have to call him anything back. You can hush. What did it do to you? What did that do? All right, the person can still rob, take from you, which these things is being done every day by the higher officials and we not doing anything about it. 18 15:00.000 --> 15:30.000 Some things we can tell God about and just wait on the law. And I declare one day somebody that you know that did you wrong misuse you in some way, one day when you see that person, you going be sorry for them. You hate to see them go through what they going through because this is a world where you reap what you sow. 19 15:30.000 --> 16:41.000 So if you don't sow good seeds, you going to reap what your sow. If they were bad, you going to reap it. So whatever you do, let it be good. And this is what I tell them, you don't have to fight back all the time. If a person spit in your face, you don't have to fight back. You can take it and live with it. And when you don't fight back all the time and when you keep your mouth, even if it's your husband or your wife, when you don't say anything, even if it's your boss, they really don't know how to handle you. But if you talk enough, they know exactly what to do for you because they can read you out through your talking. They can tell what you thinking because you'll speak out and say what you going to do. You done told them what you going to do. But if you don't say anything, they don't know what you might do. You see? 20 16:41.000 --> 16:52.000 What did you teach your children about their behavior? Say for instance going out and they were out of the home, how were they expected to behave? 21 16:52.000 --> 17:50.000 Behave? The Lord is in that plan too. You teach them to behave. Don't you be the first to make offense. Don't you do it. If somebody offend you, you try to get rid of them in the best way you can. But don't you do it. Don't you be the person to do it. You behave yourself. But I'm not going to tell you to stand up there and let somebody fight you or beat you up, you see. You can defend yourself. But don't you go out there and start something yourself, you talking about my mama and you know you ain't studying about your own mama. Okay? 22 17:50.000 --> 18:38.000 Reason I said the Lord is in the plan, a few nights ago something happened to one of my daughters and somebody went in the house on him and my son found out who it was and he went to go for them. He got in his truck and started there. I wanted to tell him to "don't go," but he couldn't hear me for the truck. I had told him don't bother with them, don't bother that. He was going anyway. And I said, "Lord, don't let him go. Don't let it happen. I don't want him there because he's mad." 23 18:38.000 --> 19:36.000 You know what? His truck stopped on him and he couldn't get there. I laughed, I laughed. So I said, "I'm so glad that truck stopped on you because I didn't want you to go." He said, "The Lord wouldn't let me go." He knew himself what it was because he was angry at what was going on. He was angry. So sometime when you tell God about it, even if you in school, when you in school you know you don't know this lesson, you can't make this test. But keep on trying and after trying, ask the Lord to help you. The Lord have helped me make my test and made 100 on him without having my books because I couldn't get a book to study the test. Just tell God about it. That's the thing. 24 19:36.000 --> 19:36.000 What did you do for a living? 25 19:36.000 --> 19:40.000 Huh? 26 19:40.000 --> 19:40.000 Were you farming at this? 27 19:40.000 --> 19:40.000 My husband? 28 19:40.000 --> 19:46.000 Mm-hmm. At this? 29 19:46.000 --> 20:56.000 Yes. After he came from the army, we farmed a while. We farmed a while. I think we had about four girls and four boys. Four girls and three boys when we start farming. When we stopped farming. While we stopped farming, those boys, every time one got out of college, they got them a job and went to work in the city and they didn't come back. So my husband didn't have anybody helping on the farm and we had to give up the farm because they passed a law, if you don't work the farm yourself or your children can't work on the farm. And see, after we rented it out, then our children couldn't work on the farm. So then he continued his preaching. He was pastoring four churches at the time. Yeah, he just continued in the ministry and— 30 20:56.000 --> 20:57.000 He was doing that full-time? 31 20:57.000 --> 21:00.000 Uh-huh. Yeah. This something, 32 21:00.000 --> 21:05.000 They passed a law about the use of your own land? 33 21:05.000 --> 21:06.000 Mm-hmm. 34 21:06.000 --> 21:06.000 I didn't understand. 35 21:06.000 --> 21:09.000 Yeah, your own land. 36 21:09.000 --> 21:13.000 It said if you or your children couldn't do the farming, you had to sell it? 37 21:13.000 --> 22:03.000 No. If you rented it. See, we couldn't work it. We couldn't work it. I couldn't work on the farm. I always had problems with my legs. I couldn't work on the farm. And, you see, he couldn't do it by himself. He rented his farm land out. When he rented his farm land out, then they had passed this law that if you not working the crop yourself, your children couldn't work on the farm, you see. And so that was it for the rest of the family, boys and girls, they couldn't work out there. And other folks would come there and work right out there on our farm. 38 22:03.000 --> 22:04.000 But your children— 39 22:04.000 --> 22:15.000 And my children in the yard playing, they couldn't work out there. That was the law that they had passed. 40 22:15.000 --> 22:26.000 Wow. Do you remember approximately when that law came into effect? 41 22:26.000 --> 22:41.000 Not exactly, but it was probably in the '60s or '70's. Between '60 and '70. 42 22:41.000 --> 22:49.000 And this, the land that your husband farmed had it been in his family for a long time? 43 22:49.000 --> 23:04.000 No, we just got it in '51. 1951. 44 23:04.000 --> 23:11.000 Well you mentioned that your grandfather had had some. Is that still in the family? 45 23:11.000 --> 24:36.000 Yeah, that's still in the family. But no one lives there. They have died out. Now, just like down here. A lot of children, people, families was here when we first moved here in '51. But every grown person that was down here when we moved here, except my husband, main next house and the next house way down there on this side, the only three people still living. Everybody else is dead. There are family members, some family members in all those houses. But the older people that were young people when we moved here, they would be in their 70s and 80s now. They gone on. They did. So that's why I say it's just like it's a history book being bought up when an older person like that die because they can tell you a lot of things that happened long time ago. They can tell you about it. And some of those things, if you are interested in history, some of those things are really interesting to you. 46 24:36.000 --> 25:33.000 Now to me it is because the old man told me one day that we were living on top of houses down here and really? He said, "Yes ma'am." And he pointed out a place across the highway here. He pointed out that place in Westfield over there. I said, "Yes, sir." He said, "I used to live there. I used to live there." Said, "I went away. And when I come back, it had filled up so until I fell in a hole and when I fell in a hole, when I got on in there, a big bobcat jumped out the hole," and said, "and I looked out, I was in a house." "Down under the ground." 47 25:33.000 --> 26:16.000 He said, "Yeah." He said, "It's the same way over there where you stay." I said, "Well, I heard people say out there in front of my house that if you fall in a hole, you can't get out anymore. There's houses there. You living on top of houses." Said, "All that was low land. When we travel around here, it was in boats. We traveled in boats. So now since it's filled up, we don't have." I said, "Well how it filled up?" Said, "They wash from the hills down here. The hills washed down and all this used to be wooded land. 48 26:16.000 --> 27:27.000 And then cleared it up, made farms out of the valley, no water. Dug—What you call, creeks and levies, built levies and so on, running water on someone else. So to me, that was history to me. I said now I just hope I won't someday fall in a hole. But they told me, said, "Don't you notice every once in a while, don't you notice your house sinking?" I said, "Yeah." I said, "And we done built our walk two or three times on top of the ground." And we noticed the walk, all those bricks still go down in the ground. They're down in the ground again now. We done had a concrete walk across that way. You couldn't see it. Now the board done started another concrete walk on top of that one because the other one is out of sight. 49 27:27.000 --> 28:34.000 I said, "But how far are we going to sink?" That's history to me. Just like what I tell when I tell these young people about how we used to travel. I told them I went to high school in a wagon. When it rained so bad that we couldn't get from school, daddy had to come pick us up, come to the school and get us in a wagon. Ooh, that tickle him so bad. Who? How the wagon go. I said they had two mules to the wagon, pulling the wagon. They thought they, "You go that far in a wagon?" I said, "You had to or you walk that far. You had to." So that was it. We went to church in a buggy. I went other places and went to town, places in new wagon. So that was our life back there. 50 28:34.000 --> 29:02.000 But now it's different. Never had every young boy in good got their own transportation, their own car now. My grandchildren got their own car. "Granddaddy, I got to have a car. I'm going to school every day." They don't want to stay in the dormitory. They want to stay where they can commute to school. See? 51 29:02.000 --> 29:31.000 Oh, I talk too much, don't I? Yeah. So these where my grandchildren, all these little pictures. Here is my grands. Now this the last grand that I had here beside that one there. I raised this one, that one and that one with the cap over here. And Terrell—where Terrell picture, Adrian? Because Terrell is like— 52 29:31.000 --> 29:40.000 Right there. 53 29:40.000 --> 29:46.000 Now, that's his wife and baby with him. Now he's in Memphis. He's with MCI now. 54 29:46.000 --> 29:48.000 That's where they stay at. 55 29:48.000 --> 30:03.000 And where's George picture, Adrian? Where's George picture. Their mother, that's their mother up there with them when they were little. Where? Hannah here. Oh. 56 30:03.000 --> 30:06.000 Here. 57 30:06.000 --> 31:29.000 Yeah, that's his mother. That's the one took her daddy to church today. That second picture is her up there. So they all went—Let me see. No, he went to Russ College. That one went to Russ College. He finished. He graduated that other part of this year. Wife going to Russ now. This one finished at Jackson State. That's a young picture and Jackson State. And this one is going to Jackson State now on Jackson State. These are the ones I raised up right here, along with them last two there and last two of mine. So I've been there and right now I'm glad to retire. But yet, I won't retire. Not from here. If you wasn't here, I'd be on and now and when I get through, I'm going to church. I hope to go to church in Jackson tonight, even though we having revival here. But I promised my daughter, I would go one night with her. Okay. 58 31:29.000 --> 31:39.000 What would you say would be some of the biggest differences between the way you came up and the way your children came up or were there differences? 59 31:39.000 --> 32:38.000 Oh yeah, a great difference because they had a greater—They have, not had. They had and they have greater advantages of everything. Food, clothing, transportation, jobs, everything. Their advantages is different and greater. Sure. There's a great difference between the way they were brought up and the way I was brought up because now they can get a job most anywhere they apply now, but back there then if it had stayed the same, I couldn't because the job that they have now, White people had them then. 60 32:38.000 --> 33:26.000 White people had them and you couldn't get a job like that. Now, working in the bank, in the post office, you see Blacks in all these places. Well, they couldn't get jobs like that then. Daycare centers, Whites was the head of all those. Now these children got their own daycare center, got their own businesses. And my second son got his own business. And driving those big trucks, UPS trucks. There's still only White people driving those. Blacks are driving them now too. They have a better advantage than we had. 61 33:26.000 --> 33:34.000 And before we turned the tape on, you were telling me that you yourself never lived on a plantation. 62 33:34.000 --> 33:35.000 Beg you pardon? 63 33:35.000 --> 33:36.000 Before we turned the tape recorder on you were telling me that you had never lived on a plantation. 64 33:36.000 --> 33:37.000 Right. 65 33:37.000 --> 33:45.000 Your father owned—Oh, your father lived in your grandfather's place? I don't remember. 66 33:45.000 --> 34:52.000 He first, my dad first rented a place from a White man for so many years. And we had a disaster, which we had two deaths there. And he didn't want to stay there any longer. There wasn't a falling out or anything like that with he in the main because the main let him sell the place to another main. And we moved to a White man's place and stayed there three years. Rented a house from that White man three years until daddy could build us a house to stay in. And when he built a house while he was building a house for us to stay in, I think we worked for that White man one year or something like that. But we worked on the grandfather's farm. That's where he was building a house, on my grandfather's farm. That's where he built a house. And that's where we worked at on grandfather's farm. 67 34:52.000 --> 36:08.000 He said it was rough on the plantation, real rough. And at that time, even when I first married, White men were still whooping the Black folk, making them go to work. And in our area, one of the little Black—I mean he wasn't called Colored, he was really Black. Boy, broke it up on the plantation where he worked. He had been in the army and he come out and he going to work there for a man. The man was going to make his wife go to work, but his wife was sick. And this White man didn't care about the wife being sick. He just wanted her to go to field. And this Black boy had him to know that he married that girl, that was his wife, not the man's wife. And she wasn't going to the field. And he was right Black. And the more he talked, the redder his eyes got. His eyes turned red and his mouth was white. 68 36:08.000 --> 36:25.000 And the way he was looking, that man knew that boy a minute. He didn't bother his wife anymore and nobody else. And he was the kind that even whooped the men and made them go to field. 69 36:25.000 --> 36:38.000 So it's pretty common for White landowners to try to coerce the family or coerced certain members of the family to work whether White people wanted them to or not? 70 36:38.000 --> 36:38.000 Now or then? 71 36:38.000 --> 36:40.000 No. Then. 72 36:40.000 --> 36:41.000 Said it was pretty— 73 36:41.000 --> 36:43.000 It was pretty common for the— 74 36:43.000 --> 37:37.000 Oh yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah. I felt sorry for them because we lived on the borderline of a plantation one time. And I feel sorry for those people out there working in the hot sun. So when we moved here, these people go to work when they get ready, they come off work when they get ready. Whatever day they want to work, they work all day. And if they don't want to work the next day, they don't go to work the next day. They work just like they want to work and get the work done. But they couldn't do it on a plantation. And on a plantation those people went to town on Saturday. Everybody went to town on Saturday, Saturday evening. 75 37:37.000 --> 38:16.000 Down here, this used to be a plantation. It was turned into a government project for Black folk. And when these Black folks got here, if they went out there to work this morning and they feel like they want to go to town about eight or nine o'clock or by the time the stores open, they could work and go to town and come back any day or a week they wanted to. That was the advantage. Then everybody want to get them a home somewhere on a government project. So that's what they sought to do. 76 38:16.000 --> 38:17.000 And you've been here since '51? 77 38:17.000 --> 39:22.000 Sure. Since '51. We didn't intend to stay here, but our parents grew older and they owned their own home. My husband parents first, she didn't want to leave. And when she passed on, then my daddy had gotten older, he didn't want to leave his home. And we stayed on here and helped them because all my sisters and brothers, they left. It was 11 of us. And then when daddy passed on, he was dead. He died 20 years before mama did. Then mama didn't want to leave the house. She said, "I can't stand to be shut up and locked up in the house all day." She wanted to stay where she could leave the doors wide open, sit out on the porch day and night, long as she want. And she said, "I can't stand be way upstairs fasten up all the windows down." Said, "Well I just can't stand there." 78 39:22.000 --> 40:30.000 So we just stayed on here. Plus we had a bunch of boys, we had six boys and I said, "Let's stay on here. When these boys get out of school, they get grown and leave. They on their own. If they get in trouble, get their own self out of trouble, they're off our hands." So we stayed here. We here until yet now they don't want us to leave. So we, Madera, they call me Madera, we got to come back home. We got to have somewhere to come back. We don't have but 65 acres of land. Other people around here have more land. A lot of it might be wooded area, but they have more land. But the 65 acres, everybody done picked out their own spot of ground. Every child I got done picked out their spot of ground where they want to live. 79 40:30.000 --> 41:21.000 So don't sell the place. Don't leave. We want to get out of the city. We want to have somewhere to go. And if you all leave, we won't have nowhere to go, so. One daughter, this daughter was here today, what I told you took her daddy to work. She has a big house. She got a big pool at her house. And they come here for recreation and then right down to a house and the food. Enjoyment they want come back to the rural. So when you live in the city, it's enjoyment to come back to the rural and it's enjoyment to the person that's in the rural go to the city sometime for that enjoyment. 80 41:21.000 --> 42:33.000 So nothing wrong about that, but with everybody gone and I'm used to a crowd, it's just kind of lonesome sometimes with everybody gone. But they come back quite often. But I'm glad when they left this time, because everybody came, but them two boys at the top. Everybody came in July. What, in this August. They brought their husbands and the husbands brought their wives and the children and some of them brought the grandchildren. And the house was full day and night, the yard. And I can't tell you everybody where some of them slept. And you've been to Jackson. Have you been to Jackson, Mississippi? Well it's about 70 or 80 miles down the road. They went to Jackson every day and come back here and slept at night, get up cooking and eating, back to Jackson and back. Just like they going up there to Tchula. 81 42:33.000 --> 42:36.000 Whoa. 82 42:36.000 --> 42:37.000 On at Howard. 83 42:37.000 --> 43:21.000 Yeah. Yeah. I said, "You all sure do love to ride. You all love to ride." That was every day. But they enjoyed themselves. That was them. I didn't have to cook. I didn't have to do a thing but eat. They was washing and ironing every day. Cooking and eating every day. I didn't have a thing to do, but eat and keep talking. Okay.