Bernyce Clausell: —New York City, from about 1927. And we left there and went to Washington DC, to work, in 1940. But, of course, in New York there was segregation too. You know? Stacey Scales: Right. Bernyce Clausell: Yep. But the only thing is, I didn't experience it too much because I didn't go where it was, like downtown, to the clubs and so forth. I didn't go. You know? Stacey Scales: Yeah. Bernyce Clausell: So it didn't bother me too much, coming up. But there is a great story told about that, said that people were lined up at one of the famous nightclubs, downtown. And this Black actor was in line, so this White guy, behind him, asked the doorman, says, "You allow niggers in here?" And the doorman said, "Oh. Sure. Come on in." You know? Stacey Scales: Ooh. Bernyce Clausell: "You can come in." So I don't know too much about segregation in New York City. But in Washington DC, I went over there. And I think it must've been my first day on the job. I went to work for this war department. And first day on the job, cafeteria wasn't really open. And well, we didn't know too much about the building, anyway, so we went out, a bunch of us girls, went out to another place. We had our lunches and we brought sodas. And so, we were getting ready to sit down. And so this lady said, "Can't you people find another place to eat?" Stacey Scales: Really? Bernyce Clausell: So we were looking around, this little dumpy place. About big as this office, you might say. And so we just took our sandwiches and left. You know? And it was— Stacey Scales: How did you feel? Bernyce Clausell: Hmm? Stacey Scales: How'd you feel when they said things like that? Bernyce Clausell: Awful. Because my orientation was that, "This is the great capital of The United States of America. And everything's open, everything's wonderful." You know? But at the time, that first day I got there was terrible, on the job. Bernyce Clausell: Then, on the job itself, there's a big cafeteria. And then there was small cafeteria. Well, for a few days, we didn't know about the big cafeteria, so we were eating in the small cafeteria, where there's Black employees. Now, these employees were like janitors. You know? And we were there only, we were the first Black, oh, I guess you might say semi-professionals. You know? We were clerks, typists, so forth, stenographers. And we were the first in the building. And the building I'm talking about is the Chief of Engineers building in Washington. We were the very first. And so, therefore, we didn't know anything about the other cafeteria, so we were eating in there with the janitors, who were Black. Bernyce Clausell: So suddenly they discovered this big cafeteria, said, "Hey. Let's go in," so we decided to go in. And so we went in. And we got our dinners on the tray and sit down at the different tables, not all of us at one table. So everywhere we so sit, the White ones would scatter. Stacey Scales: Yeah? Bernyce Clausell: They would leave. Oh, yes. It was quite a while before we broke that up. And then, probably after some months, we broke that up. And then they began to integrate and then would eat with us. Yeah. It was a rough road. Stacey Scales: Do you remember your grandparents? Bernyce Clausell: My grandparents? My grandparents? Not really. I don't remember my grandparents. No. Mm-mm. I remember one of my grandmothers, I remember her. Stacey Scales: Yeah? Bernyce Clausell: She was 105 when she died, so I remember her. Stacey Scales: Did they ever stories about how times were [indistinct 00:05:03]? Bernyce Clausell: Yes. She told stories, but— Thank you. But, actually, I don't remember them because I was too young. But she remembered, I know she would talk to the children, tell them things. And I really don't remember those stories. Stacey Scales: Well, what did your parents do? Bernyce Clausell: My mother worked. And my daddy, he worked too. So my daddy was a small fellow and it was hard for him to keep a job because all he could do was labor. Stacey Scales: Contract? Bernyce Clausell: And he was a little bit of fellow. And he would get hurt, or the job was too hard, like that. But he tried, he was very small. He wore boy-sized shoes. You know? Stacey Scales: Hmm? Bernyce Clausell: And it didn't work because my parents didn't rear me, my auntie reared me, in New York City. Stacey Scales: So how did she do? Bernyce Clausell: Mm-hmm. She, well, she had a rough time with us, but she was partially blind. But people in New York City helped her with us, there was four of us. Stacey Scales: Yeah? Bernyce Clausell: Mm-hmm. And people would bring us clothing, things like that, and helped her out a lot. So we made it through, somehow. Stacey Scales: When did you come to Tallahassee? Bernyce Clausell: Came to Tallahassee in 1954. I came to school here. Stacey Scales: Oh. Yeah? Bernyce Clausell: FAMU. Stacey Scales: How was it different from where you were coming from, in Tallahassee? Bernyce Clausell: Well, I lived in Pensacola, before I came here. Stacey Scales: Oh. You went from the North to the South? Bernyce Clausell: Yeah. Well, it was somewhat different. But, see, when I left, I had to go back to Washington DC. In Washington DC, we found segregation, okay? Outside of the building where we worked, in the city itself. And I joined a group called The Federation. And this was a group of White people. And the Black people were us. You know? And we joined in with them, to try to fight segregation the best we could. What we would do, we'd work with Peoples Drug stores and some other places, but mostly Peoples Drug stores, trying to break down the eating system. So, on Saturdays we would meet and devise our strategy. Stacey Scales: What was the strategy? Bernyce Clausell: Yeah. And it had to be non-violent, first of all. Had to really be non-violent. And you had to have self-control. No matter what happened, you couldn't strike back, or anything. You know? So we would go into these restaurants, the White ones would go in, White people in our group would go in, and we would stand outside. They would get served, they would get enough for two people. You know? Stacey Scales: Oh. Yeah? Bernyce Clausell: And as soon as the seat beside them would become vacant, then one of us would ease in. You know? And they'd share their food. See, the idea was to show the restaurant owners that White people would eat there, even though Black people were eating there too. You see what I'm saying? Stacey Scales: Yeah. Bernyce Clausell: Because that was their hangup, saying, "Well, if we let Black people be served here, then the White people won't come." So they were trying to show that that was wrong, "They will come." Stacey Scales: Right. Bernyce Clausell: So, sometimes we had it real rough, after they found out. We'd go from one place to the other. Then, after they would find out what we were doing, they'd close the counter. We've been spit on and called every name you can think of, except the right name. You know? Stacey Scales: Mm-hmm. Bernyce Clausell: And they haven't really hit us, but they really called us terrible names, like that. Stacey Scales: And what was the name of the organization, again, the organized group? Bernyce Clausell: Federation. They was a bunch of Quakers. Stacey Scales: Oh. Okay. Bernyce Clausell: Mm-hmm Stacey Scales: [indistinct 00:09:36] Bernyce Clausell: Uh-huh. And I'm trying to think of the whole name, but I can't, it won't come to me right now. What is it? But it's been pretty good since, since I left there. But we would fight it. And finally, integration came. Stacey Scales: Was it CORE? Bernyce Clausell: No. It was CORE. CORE wasn't organized then. Stacey Scales: Oh. Okay. Bernyce Clausell: And one of the words in the name of the great was, "Federation." I can't remember, it may come to me. But, now, they themselves were ostracized by the Whites, by some of the Whites. You see what I'm saying? They received hate letters, hate phone calls. You know? Things at their door. "Nigger lovers," they were called all those kinds of things, but it didn't deter them, they still fought on. And, of course, I left Washington DC, before the fight ended. But, finally, integration came in Washington after I came South. Stacey Scales: Was there a Black Business District, or an area— Bernyce Clausell: Yes. In Tallahassee? Stacey Scales: Yes. Bernyce Clausell: There, up in Frenchtown, on Macomb Street. On Saturdays, there'd be hundreds of people up and down Macomb Street, shopping, or just standing on the corners, talking. Stacey Scales: Oh. Yeah? Bernyce Clausell: You know? Like that. Macomb Street was the street for Blacks. And they had fairly good businesses there too. They had Jewish businesses. I'd go there and buy shoes for my children at a nice shoe store they had there. Stacey Scales: Yeah? Bernyce Clausell: And they had dress shops, 5 & 10. But that's where we gathered, where the lots of Black people would gather, on Saturdays. Lots of them would come from the rural places and bring their lunches and just be there. Stacey Scales: Was that a grounds for organizing ever, people meeting on the streets? Bernyce Clausell: Oh. Probably. They probably did. You know? And then, of course, we went uptown too. Uptown was completely segregated. Now, you had Woolworths, 5 & 10, and McCrory's. And they had a large counter, where the Black people would have to go over here, separate from the White. Then, they would have to stand up and eat. If they bought a hot dog, they'd have to stand up and eat it, in both stores. And I think, the other stores, you couldn't eat in there, at all. And the restrooms uptown, they had, on the street, they had a Black one and a White one. You know? So one day I decided, "I'm going in the White one and see what it's like," so I went in there. It was nice and clean. It was much cleaner than the Black one, but that's all. And water, they had White water and Black water. You know? Couldn't drink at the same water fountain. Stacey Scales: Was the water actually different? Bernyce Clausell: No. Ain't any different. They just had a sign, a, "White/Black." You know? Stacey Scales: Did you ever try the water? Bernyce Clausell: No. I didn't. Because I don't drink water in public. Stacey Scales: Oh. Okay. Bernyce Clausell: You know? And so I didn't bother with the water. No. I guess should've, to see if it tasted any different. But there was segregation. And in some of the stores you couldn't even try on the clothes, they wouldn't let you try it on. Stacey Scales: No? Bernyce Clausell: No. You buy it, as is. If it doesn't fit, you may bring it back. But most of the time, you'd bring it back and they wouldn't want to take it. Stacey Scales: Did they ever explain why, or—? Bernyce Clausell: Oh. No. No. We knew why. You know? So you know, finally, we started fighting here. And students from A&M marched, had big marches uptown, like that. And we marched on Woolworths store. We stayed out of Woolworths for months and months and months, we stayed out. And it seemed like, to me, McCrory's closed. I'm not too sure of that. But, finally, they broke down, segregation uptown, they finally broke it down, through boycotting, mostly. Stacey Scales: Yeah? Bernyce Clausell: Yeah. And then, through when the bus boycott came, of course, that was another big fight. That was a big fight. And you know the story of how the bus boycott fight, so walked through that one. Reverend Steele and some of the other ministers were the spearheads in that and they fought it for a long time. But, finally, it broke down, but not without a fight. Stacey Scales: Did your FAMU administration play a role in that time? Bernyce Clausell: Well, not too much on the outside. They couldn't be too viable in it, see, because they're a State school, so the State shouldn't be fighting the State. You know? Stacey Scales: Yeah. Bernyce Clausell: But when Dr. Hudson, who was then Dean of Religious Education, he was very much into it. You know? But, now, the administration itself? No. I would say not. So I believe that they were leaning toward it, it was sympathetic, it wasn't a fight. But they didn't jump into it, but the students did. The students had nothing to lose. You know? Stacey Scales: Right. Bernyce Clausell: The people up there, they had their jobs to lose, so they had to be careful. Stacey Scales: What churches played a key role? Bernyce Clausell: Most all the Black churches. Stacey Scales: Yeah? Bernyce Clausell: Yeah. Most all the Black churches. Stacey Scales: What type of segregation line—? Bernyce Clausell: Cars, mostly. You know? When the Black people decided to stay off the buses, they started using their cars to pick up people, take them to work, and wherever. And, of course, we had meetings at the churches, at farms. Just about every week, we had a meeting, where the community would go, to meet. Stacey Scales: Did the news get around, from place to place, as to what was going on? Bernyce Clausell: Mostly the ministers would tell them, accommodations. Stacey Scales: Oh. Yeah? So word-of-mouth? Bernyce Clausell: Yeah. Word-of-mouth, actually, because they couldn't use the media. But the media was involved, in that Reverend Steele's, they would give interviews to the newspaper. Stacey Scales: Oh. Bernyce Clausell: You know? Right. Stacey Scales: [indistinct 00:18:39] Bernyce Clausell: Yeah. They would do that, so the news would get around that way [indistinct 00:18:46] Stacey Scales: Were you a minister when all of this was taking place? Bernyce Clausell: Let's see? No. I became a minister in 1971. Mm-hmm. But my husband was a minister. Stacey Scales: During this? Bernyce Clausell: Yeah. He was involved in it. Stacey Scales: What is his name? Bernyce Clausell: Reverend James Aaron Clausell. Stacey Scales: [indistinct 00:19:00] Bernyce Clausell: He was along with the rest of the ministers, right in there, attending the meetings, giving advice, like that, because he was one of the elderly ministers, at the time. Stacey Scales: Oh. Yeah? Bernyce Clausell: Mm-hmm. Stacey Scales: Were there any run-ins with the Ku Klux Klan or any type of controversy with outside groups? Bernyce Clausell: It seems to me that there was one or two run-ins with the Ku Klux Klan, but no crashes, no fights, no physical fights, or anything like that. You know? But it seemed like that they appeared at one or two of the marches, if my mind is clear on that, but they didn't fight, like they did in that Georgia town. Stacey Scales: Yeah. Bernyce Clausell: [indistinct 00:20:21] Stacey Scales: What neighborhood were you living in? Bernyce Clausell: Then? Stacey Scales: [indistinct 00:20:29] Bernyce Clausell: Right here. Stacey Scales: Could you describe the neighborhood? Bernyce Clausell: Well, this neighborhood, here? Were I live, it's very quiet, peaceful. And everybody was just neighborly and you could leave your doors open at night and walk in the street. You know? Stacey Scales: Yeah. Bernyce Clausell: My friend came down from New York. And it was so hot, I said, "Come on, Jo, let's go for a walk." She says, "At 2 o'clock in the morning? Hey, Bernie, are you crazy?" I said, "No. Not here. Everybody's nice." You know? So we just walked down the block, all the way down to the end. There was a little group, down at the end, having a little party, and they was just as quiet and nice as they could be. And you could leave your doors open, nobody would bother you, nothing, just like that. See, there were no projects anywhere, just us, just three streets. Stacey Scales: Was there ever a community crisis, where everyone had to get together and help each other out? Bernyce Clausell: No. Only deaths. You know? Stacey Scales: If you had a death? Bernyce Clausell: And deaths. When deaths occurred, people would get together and give food and money and flowers, like that, but no big tragedies that I can recall. No. Not in this particular area. Stacey Scales: Were there places that you wouldn't go, during that time? Bernyce Clausell: Here, in Tallahassee? Stacey Scales: Mm-hmm. Bernyce Clausell: Well, yeah. Being a Christian person, I didn't go to the activities, like nighttime activities in Frenchtown. Stacey Scales: No? Bernyce Clausell: No. Stacey Scales: That was taboo, down there? Bernyce Clausell: Yep. Uh-huh. For me it was and for persons like myself, they didn't go. We all went to church and to NAACP and activities like, to their luncheons. And you know? Stacey Scales: So what all did you do for entertainment? Bernyce Clausell: That. That's my entertainment. And then, fairs, given by the churches. They're giving fairs, all the time, we'd go to those. Stacey Scales: Did people— And, I guess, this goes back to the [indistinct 00:22:53] and with all this recollection. Did people ever talk about spirits and things? Bernyce Clausell: Spirits? Stacey Scales: Yeah. Bernyce Clausell: Not too much. Stacey Scales: No? Bernyce Clausell: Yeah. Mm-mm. Not, like when I came up, no. Stacey Scales: No? Bernyce Clausell: Mm-mm. I don't know if they believed in spirits. Ghosts. I remember, when I was a child, people would talk about ghosts. Stacey Scales: Yeah? Bernyce Clausell: Uh-huh. Stacey Scales: I guess, that's kind of somewhat the same. Bernyce Clausell: Yeah. And they talked about ghosts, all right. Stacey Scales: And superstitions— Bernyce Clausell: Yeah. Stacey Scales: —and things like that? Bernyce Clausell: Yeah. Well, in superstitions, I guess, they say they came from Africa. You know? Like putting your hat on the bed— Stacey Scales: Right. Bernyce Clausell: —stuff like that, bring you bad luck. And the black cats. Stacey Scales: Right. Bernyce Clausell: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Some people still believe in it, a black cat cross your path, and, boy, woe is you. Stacey Scales: Right. Bernyce Clausell: So that's— Stacey Scales: Did you hear of any lynchings, at that time? Bernyce Clausell: Oh. Yeah. Yes. I heard of lynchings. In Marianna, my husband was telling about some people that were lynched in Marianna and some small towns, here in Florida, where there were lynchings. And I don't know of any lynchings, here in Tallahassee. Stacey Scales: You said some were in Marianna? Bernyce Clausell: Yes. There were lynchings. Stacey Scales: Do you remember what about, what they were about? Bernyce Clausell: No. I don't know what they were about, but I know he told me that they lynched some men in Marianna, they hung them on a tree, and they were bad. You know? Very bad. But here, in Tallahassee, I don't recall any lynchings. You know? I just can't recall. Stacey Scales: What was your first job? Bernyce Clausell: My very first job? Stacey Scales: Very first job? Bernyce Clausell: Well, it was in New York City. And I worked for a contractor. I was his secretary. Stacey Scales: Oh. Yeah? Bernyce Clausell: Mm-hmm. But I can tell you about New York City, it was hard to get a job as a secretary, unless you were a certain hue, color. They only hired very fair Negro girls. Stacey Scales: Yeah? Bernyce Clausell: Fair. You had to be very fair, with long hair. Stacey Scales: Did you find that, as you traveled to the South? Bernyce Clausell: Yeah. I think that was true. And so, when I was going to school and I was taking bookkeeping and typing, so my auntie said, "Well, Bernyce, you can't get a job with bookkeeping and typist." I said, "Well, why?" You know? I was pretty naïve. I said, "Well, why?" You know? She said, "Well, you're too Black." I said, "Too Black?" You know? That kind of shocked me. I said, "Gosh. What does my Blackness have to do with my typing?" You know? Bernyce Clausell: But I went on, anyway, but that hurt. I went on, anyway, and I took the typing and all. And I got a job with, he was the treasurer of a church, so he didn't care what color you were, or what shade your were, just so you could type, and take notes, and keep his books. So I got a job, not making much, but I got a job. Stacey Scales: Do you remember, in your travels throughout the North and the South, did you ever run into racism at gas stations or restaurants? Bernyce Clausell: Mm-hmm. Well, yes. On our honeymoon, when my husband and I got married, we were leaving New York City. We were going to Troy, I believe. And we were on a train and we were in the— What you call it? Car. A special car, where the beds are. Stacey Scales: Yeah. Bernyce Clausell: And so, we went to the diner. And we were standing along the line. So this gentleman, the maître d' I guess, kept looking at us. You know? My husband's real tall and light-skinned, you couldn't tell. And he whispered to James and says, "What nationality are you?" Stacey Scales: Yeah? Bernyce Clausell: He says, "I'm an American." He says, "Oh. Come this way." So he put us in a little table and drew the curtain around us. Stacey Scales: For real? So when he said, "American," he just associated that with him being Black? Bernyce Clausell: With Black. Yes. Mm-hmm. Stacey Scales: So they drew the curtain around the complete table? Bernyce Clausell: Oh. Yes. Mm-hmm. Stacey Scales: So they had that already— Bernyce Clausell: Yep. They had the table set up like that, for any Black people that should come to the diner. Stacey Scales: Hmm? Bernyce Clausell: And then, another incident, before I married, I was living in Washington then. So my boss asked me to go to Birmingham, Alabama, to represent The Bureau. I worked for The Bureau of Councilmen, Negro Churches. So I was going to this meeting, to represent The Bureau. And we were in a segregated car, everybody from there was in a segregated car, everybody Black in the car. So the train got full and they had to move some White people in the car. So then, they made us all move up together. And they put a string across the car and hung some newspapers on the string, that was to separate us. Stacey Scales: Yeah. Bernyce Clausell: And all we had to do was look back there and we could see them and they could see us. You know? We said, "Wow." Stacey Scales: Hmm? Bernyce Clausell: "How far can you go with this segregation business?" You know? Stacey Scales: What were the people's reactions, when they did that? Bernyce Clausell: Everybody was incredulous. You know? "What?" You know? "They're just hanging string across there and some newspapers over it." You know? Newspapers don't go down far. You know? Stacey Scales: Right. The division of Black and White. Bernyce Clausell: Mm-hmm. Got to keep them separated, but it didn't really. Stacey Scales: Did you ever travel by car? Bernyce Clausell: Car? Stacey Scales: Yes. Just a car [indistinct 00:31:01] Bernyce Clausell: Yeah. Sometimes. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Stacey Scales: Would it be difficult to get gas and use the restroom? Bernyce Clausell: Well, there weren't any restrooms, you would just go to the woods. You know? And we only stopped at big cities, when we traveled. My husband and I, when we traveled, we only stopped in big cities for gas. Yeah. Stacey Scales: Why did you use that strategy? Bernyce Clausell: Because we know, in small towns, you're liable to get lynched. And so we never stopped in a small town. I don't do it today. Stacey Scales: No? Bernyce Clausell: Uh-uh. Prefer the big cities. You know? And I wait, until we fill up, so we can get to another town. But even, because the small towns are not that way now, some of them, but even now, you may run into some persons that are prejudiced in these stations, so we don't stop. Stacey Scales: Yeah. Bernyce Clausell: We don't stop. Stacey Scales: Were you ever turned down for gas? Bernyce Clausell: No, because we didn't stop. We didn't stop. Well, once, we did stop. And we asked. But before we bought the gas, we said, "Do you have a restroom?" The man said, "No." We left. Stacey Scales: Hmm? Bernyce Clausell: You know? Because we knew what that meant, so if you can't go to the restroom, you can't buy your gas. You know? Stacey Scales: When you moved here, did most people have a car? Bernyce Clausell: Well, when I moved here, we were in school. Stacey Scales: Mostly, in your neighborhood? Bernyce Clausell: In the neighborhood? Yes. Right here, they had cars. Stacey Scales: Yeah? Bernyce Clausell: Mm-hmm. Stacey Scales: Did most people rent or own their house? Bernyce Clausell: Right around here, they owned their house. Stacey Scales: Oh. Yeah? Bernyce Clausell: Mm-hmm. Right around this particular community. Stacey Scales: So in this town [indistinct 00:33:11] owned homes? Bernyce Clausell: Yes. Right where we live. See, there was no— Now, the projects is over here. The Mason Street Projects, we call them. See, they weren't built for a few years, after we moved here. And so, you have people that's renting in the projects. Stacey Scales: Okay. So when you moved in here, it was mostly homes? Bernyce Clausell: Over here, see, we have Joe Lewis, Calloway, and Basin Street. Now, Basin Street was one side, one-sided, I might say. And the other side was just woodland. And so, finally, they cleared out the woods and built the projects, over on that side of Basin Street. Stacey Scales: Were these streets always— Now, when were these streets named Joe Lewis and Calloway Street? Bernyce Clausell: Oh. Around '54. Stacey Scales: Oh. Yeah? Bernyce Clausell: Somewhere around there. Stacey Scales: Okay. Bernyce Clausell: '54, '55. I don't know. But Joe Lewis was quite famous. You know? Stacey Scales: Right. Bernyce Clausell: And Calloway, Cab Calloway. You know? Stacey Scales: Right. Bernyce Clausell: Right there. And Basin Street. The Basin Street Blues. So that's where they got them from, those people. Mm-hmm. Stacey Scales: Famous actors, then? Bernyce Clausell: Yeah. Right. And then, over there is Harlem Street. Stacey Scales: Hmm? What school did you attend? Bernyce Clausell: I attended Florida A&M University. Stacey Scales: Okay. Bernyce Clausell: Here. And I attended Howard University in Washington DC. Stacey Scales: Yeah? Bernyce Clausell: Mm-hmm. Stacey Scales: Where were you reared, I mean, where'd you go to high school? Bernyce Clausell: In New York City. Stacey Scales: Yeah? Bernyce Clausell: Mm-hmm. Right. Stacey Scales: Did they ever teach African American history at any of the schools you went to? Bernyce Clausell: No, sir. They did not. I got most of my history from the church. Our church kind of dealt in that. Stacey Scales: Right. Bernyce Clausell: Mm-hmm. Stacey Scales: Did your family teach African American pride and things like that? Bernyce Clausell: Oh. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. From the family and the church, mostly. Stacey Scales: What type of things did you learn? Bernyce Clausell: We learned about famous people. And then, we were exposed to some of the famous people, like Marian Anderson and— It's a tenor. I heard him sing. Ugh. What was his name? A famous Black tenor singer, I heard him. Stacey Scales: Paul Robeson? Bernyce Clausell: Hmm? Stacey Scales: Not Robeson? Bernyce Clausell: Paul Robeson? He's an actor. I can't think of his name, right now. That's awful. Well, I heard him sing, in person. And I heard Marian Anderson. And we got a chance to hear, in person, some of the great people of that day. Mm-hmm. Stacey Scales: How did that make you feel, when they would sing about their experience—? Bernyce Clausell: Well— Stacey Scales: —during that time. Bernyce Clausell: Yeah. Well, during that time, I was very impressionable. And like, "Oh. God. That's somebody." You know? And I would admire them. You know? And I just thought they were great people. You know? Stacey Scales: Was there anyone in the community you looked up to, as a leader? Bernyce Clausell: This community? Stacey Scales: Yeah. Bernyce Clausell: No. I don't think so. No. They looked to me. Stacey Scales: They looked to you? Bernyce Clausell: Yeah. I'm kind of reluctant to say that, but it's true. You know? Stacey Scales: Right. Bernyce Clausell: Everything that happens, they'd call me. You know? Stacey Scales: So how'd you get to be the community person, like community [indistinct 00:37:51] Bernyce Clausell: I don't know. I guess, through the church. You know? I pastor the church on the corner. And I do lots of community work. We give out clothing. That room, back in the back, is full of clothes. I just moved it out of here. Stacey Scales: Oh. Yeah? Bernyce Clausell: And we have two house, two handy houses, at the church, is full. Stacey Scales: Oh. Yeah? Bernyce Clausell: And so were going to have a giveaway, you might say, next month, now, for back-to-school. You know? Stacey Scales: Right. Bernyce Clausell: And for a whole week, we're going to be giving away clothing. Stacey Scales: Hmm? Bernyce Clausell: And, well, we do just lots of community things. I go around to the nursing homes and have services. We go to the prisons. And as a matter of fact, they made me The Mother of Florida State Prison, on downstate. Stacey Scales: Hmm? Oh. Yeah? Bernyce Clausell: I used to go there, every three months, and have church down there. And then we go to the local correction institutes, like in Madison and Monticello, [indistinct 00:39:00], like that. We go all around. And we minister to the sick, like that. So, I guess, maybe through all these things. Stacey Scales: Right. Bernyce Clausell: Yeah. Stacey Scales: How long has the church been taking on these responsibilities? Bernyce Clausell: Well, the church is 36 years old, but we haven't been doing all that for 36 years. I would say about 25 years. Mm-hmm. I think 25 years. 20. About 20 years. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Mm-hmm. [indistinct 00:39:47] like that. But it has grown, and grown, and grown. You know? We've done more and more things, particularly after I retired from school. You know? I used to teach school. Stacey Scales: Oh. Yeah? Bernyce Clausell: Mm-hmm. Stacey Scales: Where'd you teach? Bernyce Clausell: I taught at Griffin School. I taught at Pineview and Bellevue. Stacey Scales: Between now and the time period that we were talking about earlier, what type of significant changes do you see? Bernyce Clausell: Oh, my. As that ad said, "We've come a long way, baby." Oh. Yes. It's quite different, in that, right here, in Tallahassee, you can go anywhere. You can go in the government buildings. You can go to any church. See, when we first came here, Black people couldn't go to the White churches, we were not welcome. You can go to the stores uptown and be served and go in the dressing rooms and try on clothing, and people are courteous. If they're not, you can report them. And you can ride on the buses, if you want to. Go in any filling stations and be served courteously. Go in any stores. Bernyce Clausell: You can get jobs. One of the things that have opened up is economics. There are more Black people in good jobs, in government and private industries, also. And see, it used to be the only jobs you could get were menial. You know? Or teaching. But now, you can qualify, you can get any kind of job. And, of course, if you are discriminated against, then you have some recourse, you've got an agency or an advocate that you can go to. And that's a big difference. Yeah. And, of course, one of the things that has changed, even in that, is that Black people, there was a time, where if you're Black, you had it made. You know? Stacey Scales: Yeah? Bernyce Clausell: Yes. Everything was for Black people. You could get ahead of the Whites. You'd get hired, ahead of the Whites, because you're Black. Stacey Scales: Right. Bernyce Clausell: See, that day is gone. You know? They don't do that anymore. So, and we had the area of Black Pride, Black is Beautiful. Stacey Scales: Yeah. Bernyce Clausell: We had that. And almost, that's almost gone. You know? We had pride for the Black children, Black young people, try to emulate Africans. Then, I met an African one day, and she's from Nigeria, she says, "No," she says, "We don't fix our hair like that." She says, "We're trying to fix our hair after you all." You know? And it looked that that has gone a little far. Stacey Scales: Yeah. I guess, what I've noticed, too, is because there are so many different African cultures— Bernyce Clausell: Right. Stacey Scales: —that it's not just one. Bernyce Clausell: Not just one. Every tribe is different. You know? But, generally speaking, we've come a long way. You know? And we have far to go too. But I would say that, really, advances, segregation and such is gone, but prejudice and such is still around, but it's more hidden, it's introverted. You know? And they say things to you. Or you go. And I found that, some places I go, I have to stand and wait, still. Stacey Scales: Yeah? Bernyce Clausell: Yeah. But I have stood and waited. I said, "Well, I'll just wait and see." And sometimes I speak out. I says, "Now, wait a minute, here? I was here ahead of her." You know? "Oh. I'm sorry." Stacey Scales: Right. Bernyce Clausell: You know? Stacey Scales: I don't believe I have any more questions. Do you have any other advice that you'd like to share? Bernyce Clausell: Well, not really. I would just think that we have really grown. And we have many organizations that organize to continue to keep down prejudice. You know? And they're being successful, in many ways. Churches have advanced. And so many of the churches you have, even have mixed choirs. You know what I'm saying? And people in them. And so, I think it's the churches should've been first. If they continue to fight this thing, I think it'll finally just disappear. You know? But it's moving. Let us say, "It's moving, upward." You know? Right? Stacey Scales: Okay. Bernyce Clausell: Uh-huh. Stacey Scales: Thank you.