WEBVTT

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<v ->Mary, thank you so much for agreeing to be interviewed,</v>

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if you could just say and spell your full name?

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<v ->Mary Preus, M-A-R-Y P-R-E-U-S.</v>

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<v ->Thank you so much, and are you lay or clergy?</v>

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<v ->I'm lay.</v>

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<v ->And what is your denominational affiliation?</v>

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<v ->Well formally, I am a member</v>

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of the Ecumenical Community of St. Martin,

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that's where my church membership lies.

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And I was born and raised a Lutheran and have worked

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in a Lutheran church for over 20 years.

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<v ->Wonderful, okay, that's great.</v>

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So that is an interesting background.

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<v ->Right.</v>
<v ->Um, great.</v>

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Could you say a little bit more about

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the Ecumenical Community of St. Martin's people?

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<v ->That is the group that began St. Martin's Table,</v>

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so the Community of St. Martin is the membership group

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that meets as a worshiping community every Sunday evening.

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And we've been meeting over here in the Seward neighborhood

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or over where St. Martin's Table was,

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on Riverside Avenue for 30 years.

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<v ->Wow.</v>
<v ->So that's a group of people</v>

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who take as their main focus

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the non-violent peace making of Jesus,

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and follow that as a mission.

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<v ->Thank you, that's great.</v>

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So, where did you go to school?

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<v ->College, I'm assuming you're wondering?</v>

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(Mary laughs)
<v ->Yes, that would be great.</v>

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<v ->I went to college in several different places.</v>

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I was a slow learner and not a good academic person

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as a young person, as an adult I got very interested in it,

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so I've been to several different colleges

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as a matter of fact, and ended up graduating

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from Metropolitan State University in St. Paul,

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as a thirty-something year old.

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<v ->Well, good for you.</v>

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(they both laugh)

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<v ->And what work or ministry were you doing at the time</v>

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of Re-Imagining, that was several years

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actually you were involved, so in that time?

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<v ->Right, right.</v>

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I have always been

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in a musical group of some sort.

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So when the first Re-Imagining community got going,

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I had been directing Calliope Women's Chorus

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in the Twin Cities, and was just getting

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an invitation from Our Savior's Lutheran Church

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to be their music director.

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I was a member of Spirit of the Lakes, UCC Church,

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and part of, you know, a worship team there.

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I had also been part of a little house group of women

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that met to sort of do, what I think probably was happening,

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although I haven't done research on this,

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so this would be interesting, you know, kind of starting

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out little cells of worshiping groups as women.

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And looking at women's history in Christian worship

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as well as in other, you know,

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kinds of worship around the world.

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<v ->Oh, you know, that's fascinating.</v>

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Tell me a little bit more about that, what your group did.

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<v ->Well, so I left the church for a long time,</v>

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like I think a lot of women did, for the very reason

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that I found it to be completely patriarchal and sexist.

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And once I grew up a little bit, and realized

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that I had been steeped in a religious, worshiping life,

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my father was a Lutheran pastor, and that it was a part

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of my life that I needed and wanted,

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I latched on to Spirit of the Lakes

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and got to that UCC Church.

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Within that church body, there were some women

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who were exploring what women might have been doing

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in world religions throughout history.

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We gathered then in homes, it was only about,

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sometimes maybe, six to 10 of us,

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and someone would fashion something

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that involved some prayer and some singing,

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maybe some reading or poetry, some silence,

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some reflection, and that sparked me again

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and made me realize what I'd been missing.

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<v ->So, just to understand, so this was interfaith then?</v>

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<v ->Right, Christian.</v>
<v ->Christian.</v>

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<v ->Actually it was Christian, but we were looking</v>

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at it from an interfaith perspective.

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<v ->Okay, I see.</v>

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Fascinating, what was the name of the group,

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do they have a name?

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<v ->That name didn't have a group, I don't think,</v>

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I can't quite remember.

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<v ->Sure.</v>

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<v ->We might have called ourselves something.</v>

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<v ->That is really interesting.</v>

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So, what work or ministry did you do after Re-Imagining?

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<v ->Well that was when I was called, so to speak,</v>

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literally practically dragged, back

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into the Lutheran Church body

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(they both laugh)

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by a very persuasive pastor at Our Savior's Lutheran Church,

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who said to me, "I think you belong here."

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And I said "no", several times, it was a little bit

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like quitting smoking, you have to do it

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several times before it finally takes.

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Luckily, the co-pastor at Our Savior's was at that time,

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Janet Tiedemann, and she was a strong feminist,

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and a pastor from a kind of a cosmological perspective,

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which I found to be fascinating,

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and it was her call as well, then that said to me,

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"I think you can thrive here."

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<v ->Wonderful.</v>
<v ->So that's where I've been.</v>

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And I've been there for more than 20 years,

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and I have been thriving.

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Now in the meantime, I also was just becoming a member

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of the Community of St. Martin, so this ecumenical community

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called to me more from the mission part and ministry.

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That is how I understand Jesus' call to us,

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is to follow his path of peace and so that spoke

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to me directly and made me want to become a member of that.

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Now someone else was leading worship there at the time,

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so I was part of a music kind of, part of the music group,

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but I did not, now I am also the worship coordinator

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for that community.

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<v ->Oh really?</v>
<v ->So what Re-Imagining did</v>

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for me was to really help launch me into worship leadership,

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from a lay perspective.

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<v ->Yes.</v>
<v ->As musician</v>

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and prayer leader and Bible study leader.

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I've been leading Bible studies at Our Savior's now

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for more than 12 years, I guess.

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<v ->Before we go on, I want to hear a little bit more.</v>

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How did Re-Imagining help you do that,

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what role did it play in that?

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<v ->Well, you know, now that you have</v>

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started asking me this,

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and I've been thinking about it

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before we got here for this interview.

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It had a very big role, but it was hard to describe,

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I was trying to think about how I would describe it.

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It was very emotional for me, to be part of all

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of the conferences I was part of.

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I think seeing women in full leadership and power

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around spiritual theological issues,

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around worship leadership and music leadership and prayer.

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It was just absolutely stunning to me,

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and since I was sort of fairly young, you know,

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in my thirties when it got going,

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I just found it to be amazing and really

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strengthening, informing, empowering, absolutely for me.

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<v ->Yes, yeah.</v>

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<v ->Luckily I was part of, now I know you</v>

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might get into this later, but--

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<v ->Go ahead, go for it.</v>

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<v ->Part of some, these communities as you can tell,</v>

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Spirit of the Lakes, UCC, kind of even on the edge

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of the UCC Church, the Ecumenical Community of St. Martin

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is a bunch of peace-niks, you know, so always

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as part of their mission statement, open to LGBTQ people,

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and women in leadership, absolutely.

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And then Our Savior's, which had a more standard,

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kind of Lutheran presence, but the people there at the time,

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were very, had just sort of broken

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that church body open too.

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So I did not, I felt the support from all around me.

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I was really lucky in that way.

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I did not have to struggle, although I think

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that's probably been strengthening for some women too,

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the struggle, but I didn't have to struggle

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from my perspective and my job--

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<v ->Yes.</v>
<v ->My job was not threatened.</v>

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My job, if anything, was enhanced.

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<v ->That's great.</v>
<v ->Yeah, it really is.</v>

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<v ->So, Mary, when and how did you first</v>

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become interested in feminist theology?

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<v ->I bet I was interested in it when I was a child.</v>

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(they both laugh)

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And actually, I also have to give some credit to my mother.

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My mother went back and finished her college degree

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when she was in her fifties, and then in her sixties,

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she went to Luther Seminary, as a Lutheran pastor's wife,

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and God, she did not feel comfortable to go for ordination,

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or you know, I don't know what quite

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all the thinking was behind that.

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But she got her MA from Luther, and part

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of her particular studies was women's studies in the church.

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So she, all of a sudden, had a library full

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of feminist theologians, and there it was for me to say,

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"oh, wow, this is an actual school of thought.

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This isn't just me saying why is

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the church so patriarchal and sexist?"

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<v ->Wow, good for your mom.</v>

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<v ->I know, really awesome in that period</v>

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and at that age for her.

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<v ->Yeah, when would this have been, roughly,</v>

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what decade would she have gone?

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<v ->That would probably have been in the '80s,</v>

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early '80s or late '70s.

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<v ->Good for her, that's great.</v>

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So let's move to Re-Imagining, and you were already involved

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at the first conference in '93.

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First of all, how did you ever get involved in Re-Imagining?

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<v ->Well, actually it was that connection</v>

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between the Community of St. Martin.

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So within our worshiping group there we had some Catholic,

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people from a Catholic background, and they knew

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Madeline Sue Martin, who was the music coordinator

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and worship coordinator for that first conference.

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I then, so before the first conference, we asked her

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to do a little training for the worship and music leaders

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at the Community of St. Martin, which we did in her home.

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It's one of the most beautiful, blessed memories

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I remember from worship leadership.

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Because from her Catholic perspective,

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her feminist perspective, her rich training,

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and experience and gifts that she had, she would bring us

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around her table, and she would have colors and candles

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and symbols and rocks and shells.

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And she would have us together as a small group,

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just discover what the symbolism of worship

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that was really going to be meaningful to us

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and to really explore kind of both the tradition and then,

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what she was the best at was cracking

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that open in a creative way.

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So she would say, "okay, this is

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what you might do traditionally.

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Now what might you do today?

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Or with these colors around you,

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or this theme that you have?"

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So she really guided us and then when we learned that,

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well when, I guess, I got the call from her.

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So she knew that I was a singing song leader,

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a choir director and when she got this position

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doing worship for the first conference,

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she asked me to be part of that group.

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<v ->So, it sounds like Madeline Sue was always building</v>

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on tradition, she knew the tradition

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and then was moving beyond.

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<v ->Well she was a worship professor at Notre Dame,</v>

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so yeah, she knew the tradition well.

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<v ->Yeah. So what was that process like,</v>

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what do you remember of it, Mary?

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Working on getting a ritual ready?

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<v ->For first one?</v>

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<v ->Yeah, the first one.</v>

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<v ->Yeah, the first one was very interesting,</v>

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and I must say, you know obviously, the first of anything

246
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is amazing, because you take so much time and effort.

247
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And I think one of the best things about

248
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that first conference was the breadth and depth

249
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of both the participants and the outcome.

250
00:11:04.681 --> 00:11:08.014
There was a broad ecumenical investment,

251
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there was also a strong feeling

252
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of not having it be white dominated,

253
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although a lot of the steering committee was white,

254
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and being here in Minnesota, I think that was part

255
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of the reason for that, but there was a strong,

256
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strong effort to have all women's voices be heard,

257
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and that was challenging, it's really hard to do that.

258
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And so you run up against a lot of roadblocks,

259
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which we did, but we worked through those in ways

260
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that were so enriching for so many of us.

261
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So we used a lot of music that was different

262
00:11:40.060 --> 00:11:42.474
and interesting, newly composed,

263
00:11:42.474 --> 00:11:44.756
a lot of creative, creative work.

264
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<v ->Yes, yeah.</v>

265
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Are there specific moments that you remember

266
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from that '93 conference?

267
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<v ->Yes, I have to spur myself on with some pictures,</v>

268
00:11:57.233 --> 00:12:00.276
because of course for me, in a lot of the conferences

269
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it was some of these amazing speakers, when I heard them,

270
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that just made my jaw drop.

271
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I mean, I have since learned to know some of them more,

272
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and now that I'm looking at this first one,

273
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I'm just thinking, first of all, they look so young!

274
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(they both laugh)

275
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Because I know some of them now.

276
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Yeah, it was, I mean, just looking over these pictures,

277
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is very moving, because of course, some of these women

278
00:12:28.347 --> 00:12:32.455
are no longer with us, and that's touching.

279
00:12:32.455 --> 00:12:34.753
And then some of them have made such an incredible name

280
00:12:34.753 --> 00:12:37.820
for themselves in the communities that I'm part of,

281
00:12:37.820 --> 00:12:40.930
Rita Nakashima Brock, and Barbara Lundblad,

282
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I probably know the best, personally.

283
00:12:44.889 --> 00:12:46.353
There's women from all over the world,

284
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and when I heard Jose Hobday and Delores Williams,

285
00:12:50.729 --> 00:12:53.729
you know, when I think of the other,

286
00:12:54.645 --> 00:12:57.562
Re-Imagining conferences, you know Mary Daly was,

287
00:12:57.562 --> 00:13:01.093
and Alice Walker's daughter Rebecca Walker,

288
00:13:01.093 --> 00:13:05.053
as giving her amazing testimony as a bisexual

289
00:13:05.053 --> 00:13:09.811
African American woman was just stunning to me, so...

290
00:13:09.811 --> 00:13:12.551
Yeah, those things, now as a musician, I remember like,

291
00:13:12.551 --> 00:13:14.895
from that first conference, working with Madeline Sue,

292
00:13:14.895 --> 00:13:18.076
who was at that point called Sue Side Martin,

293
00:13:18.076 --> 00:13:22.101
she gathered a choir that was very diverse

294
00:13:22.101 --> 00:13:24.893
and eclectic and interesting, and I remember

295
00:13:24.893 --> 00:13:26.875
that being a little complicated, you know,

296
00:13:26.875 --> 00:13:28.631
trying to figure out who was leading

297
00:13:28.631 --> 00:13:31.158
and what the style was going to be, and,

298
00:13:31.158 --> 00:13:32.815
but complicated in a good way.

299
00:13:32.815 --> 00:13:34.083
We had a really good time, and got

300
00:13:34.083 --> 00:13:37.090
to know really diverse, interesting women.

301
00:13:37.090 --> 00:13:40.612
<v ->Amazing, now you were also involved in the 1998</v>

302
00:13:40.612 --> 00:13:43.426
and the 2000, and you became more and more involved

303
00:13:43.426 --> 00:13:46.774
in things, so are there memories you have of that?

304
00:13:46.774 --> 00:13:49.115
<v ->Well, yeah, as you take on more responsibility,</v>

305
00:13:49.115 --> 00:13:52.171
of course then it gets to be a little bit more of a job.

306
00:13:52.171 --> 00:13:55.008
So, then I feel I can, you know just thinking about it,

307
00:13:55.008 --> 00:13:57.781
feel more the weight of responsibility.

308
00:13:57.781 --> 00:14:00.459
I think that the Re-Imagining community was drawn

309
00:14:00.459 --> 00:14:03.062
to the group I was part of, Bread for the Journey,

310
00:14:03.062 --> 00:14:06.135
because we had made it a focus of ours

311
00:14:06.135 --> 00:14:08.008
to do music from around the world,

312
00:14:08.008 --> 00:14:09.667
and we'd done a lot of investigating

313
00:14:09.667 --> 00:14:12.203
of global Christian music in particular.

314
00:14:12.203 --> 00:14:14.569
And because, as I said, from the very beginning,

315
00:14:14.569 --> 00:14:16.882
that was always a theme for Re-Imagining,

316
00:14:16.882 --> 00:14:20.882
was this world-wide interest in women's theology

317
00:14:22.316 --> 00:14:25.678
and what feminists were doing all around the world.

318
00:14:25.678 --> 00:14:29.311
That music really fit well, so it was fun to work

319
00:14:29.311 --> 00:14:31.456
with the members of the steering committee

320
00:14:31.456 --> 00:14:34.248
for those conferences, and like I said, it did feel

321
00:14:34.248 --> 00:14:37.208
like more responsibility, but the conferences themselves,

322
00:14:37.208 --> 00:14:41.538
of course never have the same impact as that first one did.

323
00:14:41.538 --> 00:14:45.176
But they were each rich and amazing in their own way.

324
00:14:45.176 --> 00:14:47.093
<v ->Yeah, I'd like to hear a little bit more</v>

325
00:14:47.093 --> 00:14:48.964
about Bread for the Journey, because they were so important.

326
00:14:48.964 --> 00:14:50.734
How did that group get started?

327
00:14:50.734 --> 00:14:54.234
<v ->Well, I think that grew out of the ELCA,</v>

328
00:14:56.331 --> 00:14:58.933
the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America's

329
00:14:58.933 --> 00:15:02.134
global mission events and the invitation of the director

330
00:15:02.134 --> 00:15:04.714
of that, a woman named Bonnie Jensen,

331
00:15:04.714 --> 00:15:08.078
who was an amazing woman also in putting together worship

332
00:15:08.078 --> 00:15:13.030
and understanding what richness the world church brought

333
00:15:13.030 --> 00:15:15.414
to worship here in North America.

334
00:15:15.414 --> 00:15:18.562
So, how for so many of us, we almost need to hear

335
00:15:18.562 --> 00:15:21.912
the gospel message from people who are on fire

336
00:15:21.912 --> 00:15:24.960
with the gospel, those of us who've just grown complacent

337
00:15:24.960 --> 00:15:27.828
and have had it in our background for centuries

338
00:15:27.828 --> 00:15:29.877
and don't even think about it anymore.

339
00:15:29.877 --> 00:15:33.560
And she encouraged us to really do some investigating

340
00:15:33.560 --> 00:15:38.028
into the music of Christians around the world.

341
00:15:38.028 --> 00:15:40.470
And so to bring that to the Re-Imagining community really

342
00:15:40.470 --> 00:15:42.937
made a lot of sense and we had a good connection there.

343
00:15:42.937 --> 00:15:47.476
Bread for the Journey was started really by Tom Witt,

344
00:15:47.476 --> 00:15:49.615
and because I was his partner at that point,

345
00:15:49.615 --> 00:15:53.239
he asked me to be part of it and he's a keyboard player

346
00:15:53.239 --> 00:15:57.234
primarily, and then we called upon other colleagues

347
00:15:57.234 --> 00:15:59.261
we know who play a variety of instruments,

348
00:15:59.261 --> 00:16:02.079
and love to sing, so that we could do harmonies

349
00:16:02.079 --> 00:16:03.755
and put together a little band.

350
00:16:03.755 --> 00:16:05.386
<v ->Don't even know, you're a singer,</v>

351
00:16:05.386 --> 00:16:06.668
are you also an instrumentalist?

352
00:16:06.668 --> 00:16:08.346
<v ->My voice is my primary instrument,</v>

353
00:16:08.346 --> 00:16:10.224
and then I also play the guitar and the flute.

354
00:16:10.224 --> 00:16:13.014
And then as a group, when Bread for the Journey got started,

355
00:16:13.014 --> 00:16:15.210
and I believe it was in the Re-Imagining community

356
00:16:15.210 --> 00:16:18.126
that we, or during that time, that we took some

357
00:16:18.126 --> 00:16:21.187
little drumming lessons from another amazing woman

358
00:16:21.187 --> 00:16:22.980
in the Twin Cities, Colleen Haas,

359
00:16:22.980 --> 00:16:25.090
who had her own drumming studio.

360
00:16:25.090 --> 00:16:28.673
And she helped us to learn some of the rhythms

361
00:16:28.673 --> 00:16:30.703
from around the world, so that we could do some

362
00:16:30.703 --> 00:16:34.675
of that music with more authenticity, or at least, a flavor.

363
00:16:34.675 --> 00:16:35.955
<v ->How neat.</v>

364
00:16:35.955 --> 00:16:38.433
Now you mentioned the backlash did not affect you,

365
00:16:38.433 --> 00:16:41.010
in fact if anything, it was,

366
00:16:41.010 --> 00:16:43.304
the conference was positive for you,

367
00:16:43.304 --> 00:16:44.792
which I'm glad to hear.
<v ->Strangely.</v>

368
00:16:44.792 --> 00:16:45.971
I mean, you know, other than interesting.

369
00:16:45.971 --> 00:16:48.862
<v ->In what way was it positive for you?</v>

370
00:16:48.862 --> 00:16:53.105
<v ->Well, I think for me, both the global mission events</v>

371
00:16:53.105 --> 00:16:56.566
at the ELCA and these Re-Imagining events, you know,

372
00:16:56.566 --> 00:16:58.317
to have, it's like traveling the world.

373
00:16:58.317 --> 00:17:02.769
To have that kind of openness and challenge and breadth

374
00:17:02.769 --> 00:17:06.300
of experience and just knowledge and wisdom,

375
00:17:06.300 --> 00:17:08.242
be poured into your life, at a point

376
00:17:08.242 --> 00:17:12.732
where you're really excited and open, welcoming to it,

377
00:17:12.732 --> 00:17:14.164
was not only educational for me.

378
00:17:14.164 --> 00:17:16.473
I mean, as I said to you when you were talking to me before,

379
00:17:16.473 --> 00:17:20.378
I'm not a great academic student in a school setting.

380
00:17:20.378 --> 00:17:23.045
But when I'm in a setting like that where I'm listening

381
00:17:23.045 --> 00:17:25.924
to people talk and hearing their wisdom

382
00:17:25.924 --> 00:17:30.333
and their life experience, I just sucked it up.

383
00:17:30.333 --> 00:17:34.209
So it also then helped to establish, for my life,

384
00:17:34.209 --> 00:17:37.499
as a worship music person here in the Twin Cities,

385
00:17:37.499 --> 00:17:41.528
that I had this kind of global breadth and understanding

386
00:17:41.528 --> 00:17:44.066
that I could bring then, to these local communities here,

387
00:17:44.066 --> 00:17:47.129
which is such a gift, it's just an honor,

388
00:17:47.129 --> 00:17:49.250
it's a real honor and a gift for me.

389
00:17:49.250 --> 00:17:50.469
<v ->Wonderful, Mary.</v>

390
00:17:50.469 --> 00:17:52.856
Now I'm sure you were aware of the backlash,

391
00:17:52.856 --> 00:17:54.856
how did you react to it?

392
00:17:56.291 --> 00:18:00.458
<v ->I have little patience for the church institution</v>

393
00:18:01.308 --> 00:18:05.624
that struggles with change in such a deep way.

394
00:18:05.624 --> 00:18:09.017
And I feel a little confessional about that,

395
00:18:09.017 --> 00:18:11.978
because of course, my family has a long history

396
00:18:11.978 --> 00:18:15.367
in the Lutheran church and has been a big part

397
00:18:15.367 --> 00:18:18.125
of helping to actually form that body and shape it

398
00:18:18.125 --> 00:18:20.991
here in the United States and especially in the Midwest.

399
00:18:20.991 --> 00:18:24.136
So I have to always watch my impatience, you know,

400
00:18:24.136 --> 00:18:26.275
especially talking to people from my family,

401
00:18:26.275 --> 00:18:29.229
but just in my own self and remember that institutions

402
00:18:29.229 --> 00:18:33.635
always move more slowly than people, individuals of course,

403
00:18:33.635 --> 00:18:36.310
but even groups of people can move much more quickly.

404
00:18:36.310 --> 00:18:38.009
Which is what I think the Re-Imagining community

405
00:18:38.009 --> 00:18:40.179
was able to do, was to step out of some

406
00:18:40.179 --> 00:18:42.916
of those institutions and then just fly.

407
00:18:42.916 --> 00:18:45.740
Not that it didn't encounter stumbling blocks itself,

408
00:18:45.740 --> 00:18:48.102
and not that there isn't dissension amongst women

409
00:18:48.102 --> 00:18:50.341
who are feminist theologians.

410
00:18:50.341 --> 00:18:53.444
But to be able to just take that trajectory and say,

411
00:18:53.444 --> 00:18:55.449
"where could we go, if the institution

412
00:18:55.449 --> 00:19:00.345
was not holding us back?", was really what happened there.

413
00:19:00.345 --> 00:19:03.137
I felt so deeply saddened by hearing of women

414
00:19:03.137 --> 00:19:06.824
who lost their positions and lost their tenure

415
00:19:06.824 --> 00:19:10.864
or their job, you know important, well-paid jobs,

416
00:19:10.864 --> 00:19:13.900
and had to kind of start over themselves.

417
00:19:13.900 --> 00:19:15.788
That was to me, just tragic.

418
00:19:15.788 --> 00:19:18.662
So I think those church bodies made a mistake,

419
00:19:18.662 --> 00:19:22.494
I mean, I think they lost some valuable, valuable gifts.

420
00:19:22.494 --> 00:19:23.768
So that saddens me.

421
00:19:23.768 --> 00:19:25.858
<v ->Yeah, and I think you're already answering the question,</v>

422
00:19:25.858 --> 00:19:27.784
but I wonder if you want to say anything more.

423
00:19:27.784 --> 00:19:29.170
How would you account for the backlash,

424
00:19:29.170 --> 00:19:31.077
I mean institutional's resistance to change,

425
00:19:31.077 --> 00:19:33.607
is there anything else that you think was going on?

426
00:19:33.607 --> 00:19:35.957
<v ->Well, the male fear of women's power,</v>

427
00:19:35.957 --> 00:19:39.239
so all the weird interpretations of what we were doing

428
00:19:39.239 --> 00:19:42.770
with milk and honey and breasts and you know, images of God.

429
00:19:42.770 --> 00:19:45.161
And you know, that is all so bizarre to me,

430
00:19:45.161 --> 00:19:48.516
because of course, much of that imagery is ancient

431
00:19:48.516 --> 00:19:51.670
which of course, a lot of Christian imagery is as well,

432
00:19:51.670 --> 00:19:54.992
and has borrowed from, so it wasn't so strange,

433
00:19:54.992 --> 00:19:57.582
but it was that we focused on that

434
00:19:57.582 --> 00:20:00.236
and then that became, that was lifted up.

435
00:20:00.236 --> 00:20:01.640
And I think that was just really threatening,

436
00:20:01.640 --> 00:20:03.490
not only to men, but to some women as well,

437
00:20:03.490 --> 00:20:07.657
who were steeped in traditional Christian images and values.

438
00:20:08.780 --> 00:20:09.953
<v ->Yeah.</v>
<v ->Yeah.</v>

439
00:20:09.953 --> 00:20:11.438
<v ->Yeah, good, good.</v>

440
00:20:11.438 --> 00:20:14.773
Mary, how would you define Re-Imagining?

441
00:20:14.773 --> 00:20:16.554
<v ->Yeah, you know, makes me want to,</v>

442
00:20:16.554 --> 00:20:18.231
I was looking at these files earlier,

443
00:20:18.231 --> 00:20:20.252
when I thought we were meeting, and I saw a really good

444
00:20:20.252 --> 00:20:21.383
(they both laugh)

445
00:20:21.383 --> 00:20:22.923
definition in one of the newsletters,

446
00:20:22.923 --> 00:20:24.898
and now I can't quite remember it.

447
00:20:24.898 --> 00:20:27.460
I think that the word itself, of course,

448
00:20:27.460 --> 00:20:30.710
says what it's doing, so it's imagining

449
00:20:34.767 --> 00:20:36.934
God and the body of Christ

450
00:20:39.188 --> 00:20:41.953
and it's re-imagining it, because we are,

451
00:20:41.953 --> 00:20:45.637
like I said before, we're not discarding the tradition,

452
00:20:45.637 --> 00:20:47.917
but we're taking the tradition

453
00:20:47.917 --> 00:20:52.255
and really digging into it to find the richness

454
00:20:52.255 --> 00:20:55.505
of its feminine imagery, of its strong,

455
00:20:57.155 --> 00:21:01.987
feminist values for love and peace-making and compassion,

456
00:21:01.987 --> 00:21:06.293
for world peace, you know, for just all kinds,

457
00:21:06.293 --> 00:21:08.863
I mean, that's one of the things from Re-Imagining

458
00:21:08.863 --> 00:21:11.001
that I remember feeling to be so stunning,

459
00:21:11.001 --> 00:21:13.153
and of course, really inline with my,

460
00:21:13.153 --> 00:21:15.860
with my theological interests, and that is

461
00:21:15.860 --> 00:21:17.554
how much it was about world peace

462
00:21:17.554 --> 00:21:21.471
from a women's, mother's, sister point of view.

463
00:21:24.178 --> 00:21:26.094
You know, just a lot more than I thought

464
00:21:26.094 --> 00:21:27.993
it would be in that regard.

465
00:21:27.993 --> 00:21:32.318
So Re-Imagining, Re-Imagining, kind of, I would say

466
00:21:32.318 --> 00:21:36.485
the whole body, the worshiping, studying, theological,

467
00:21:37.748 --> 00:21:41.748
living, breathing, body, of Christ in the world.

468
00:21:42.791 --> 00:21:44.210
<v ->Beautiful, I'm glad you didn't</v>

469
00:21:44.210 --> 00:21:45.830
find the written one, that was great!

470
00:21:45.830 --> 00:21:48.295
(they both laugh)

471
00:21:48.295 --> 00:21:49.957
As you look back on it, how would you say,

472
00:21:49.957 --> 00:21:52.829
'cause you were involved in planning and participating,

473
00:21:52.829 --> 00:21:56.537
how did feminist theology affect the process

474
00:21:56.537 --> 00:21:59.870
of the community, the way it functioned?

475
00:22:00.787 --> 00:22:02.976
<v ->As I recall, I believe there was</v>

476
00:22:02.976 --> 00:22:05.559
a strong emphasis on consensus.

477
00:22:09.783 --> 00:22:13.526
As complicated as that is, because I've done that

478
00:22:13.526 --> 00:22:16.202
in a couple other working groups that I've been in

479
00:22:16.202 --> 00:22:18.742
in my life, that weren't related to Re-Imagining.

480
00:22:18.742 --> 00:22:22.500
I know just what a long draw-out complicated process

481
00:22:22.500 --> 00:22:26.333
that can be, really listening for every voice,

482
00:22:26.333 --> 00:22:28.474
and not making a decision until

483
00:22:28.474 --> 00:22:31.378
every voice has really been considered.

484
00:22:31.378 --> 00:22:32.461
It's arduous.

485
00:22:34.925 --> 00:22:37.871
So I think we did that more and less

486
00:22:37.871 --> 00:22:40.227
at some different points in time and depending on what,

487
00:22:40.227 --> 00:22:42.923
you know, working group you were part of.

488
00:22:42.923 --> 00:22:45.433
But it was always emphasized through every conference

489
00:22:45.433 --> 00:22:49.874
that I was part of, and the steering committee I thought,

490
00:22:49.874 --> 00:22:51.089
(coughs)

491
00:22:51.089 --> 00:22:53.298
excuse me, had a real emphasis

492
00:22:53.298 --> 00:22:57.116
on not operating in a hierarchical way.

493
00:22:57.116 --> 00:22:58.170
<v ->Mm hmm.</v>

494
00:22:58.170 --> 00:23:00.224
<v ->So that was beautiful to be part of.</v>

495
00:23:00.224 --> 00:23:01.057
<v ->Yeah.</v>

496
00:23:02.228 --> 00:23:04.753
You mentioned, you used the word complicated here,

497
00:23:04.753 --> 00:23:08.281
what challenges would you say were faced by the community

498
00:23:08.281 --> 00:23:10.518
during its 10 years of existence,

499
00:23:10.518 --> 00:23:12.851
and how were they addressed?

500
00:23:13.692 --> 00:23:17.962
<v ->Obviously the challenges of people's personal struggle</v>

501
00:23:17.962 --> 00:23:21.574
within their own, other jobs and church bodies

502
00:23:21.574 --> 00:23:25.471
and authorities that they had to with, so there was that.

503
00:23:25.471 --> 00:23:28.966
Within the Re-Imagining community, I think there was

504
00:23:28.966 --> 00:23:31.912
some of the typical challenges that small groups encounter:

505
00:23:31.912 --> 00:23:36.079
burnout, aging out of some of the people involved,

506
00:23:39.388 --> 00:23:43.258
people who felt a strong commitment to Re-Imagining,

507
00:23:43.258 --> 00:23:48.001
but didn't necessarily want to take on any leadership role,

508
00:23:48.001 --> 00:23:50.174
maybe some dissension, although I don't really

509
00:23:50.174 --> 00:23:52.163
remember a lot of that, actually.

510
00:23:52.163 --> 00:23:54.134
Women kind of disagree with what they,

511
00:23:54.134 --> 00:23:56.837
I think the mission went amazingly

512
00:23:56.837 --> 00:23:59.044
and kind of ministry of Re-Imagining remained

513
00:23:59.044 --> 00:24:02.500
quite clear throughout those 10 years.

514
00:24:02.500 --> 00:24:03.376
Which is great.

515
00:24:03.376 --> 00:24:06.454
<v ->It is, that is wonderful.</v>

516
00:24:06.454 --> 00:24:08.126
You've kind of addressed this, but I'm going to ask it

517
00:24:08.126 --> 00:24:10.462
and see if other ideas come to your mind.

518
00:24:10.462 --> 00:24:12.241
What aspects of Re-Imagining were

519
00:24:12.241 --> 00:24:14.908
most significant to you and why?

520
00:24:18.336 --> 00:24:22.279
<v ->Yeah, as I said, lifting up the power of women.</v>

521
00:24:22.279 --> 00:24:23.766
The knowledge and wisdom and power

522
00:24:23.766 --> 00:24:26.348
of women within the church.

523
00:24:26.348 --> 00:24:27.912
<v ->Mm hmm.</v>

524
00:24:27.912 --> 00:24:29.586
<v ->I've just been doing some reading lately,</v>

525
00:24:29.586 --> 00:24:33.046
about the ancient church in Ireland coming up

526
00:24:33.046 --> 00:24:35.364
against the Roman empire when they were making

527
00:24:35.364 --> 00:24:39.531
those interesting church decisions in the eighth century,

528
00:24:40.589 --> 00:24:43.447
and it's just stunning, to see, you know,

529
00:24:43.447 --> 00:24:45.904
what happened with kind of male dominance

530
00:24:45.904 --> 00:24:49.686
within the Catholic Church at that point.

531
00:24:49.686 --> 00:24:53.323
So anyway, not to get too far back in history,

532
00:24:53.323 --> 00:24:57.643
so reclaiming and re-imagining women's strength, wisdom

533
00:24:57.643 --> 00:25:00.825
and knowledge in the church, which is so ironic, isn't it,

534
00:25:00.825 --> 00:25:03.178
when you think of it now, because now we talk about,

535
00:25:03.178 --> 00:25:05.128
"oh, it's just all women in the church."

536
00:25:05.128 --> 00:25:07.233
Or I'll have men say to me, "women have

537
00:25:07.233 --> 00:25:09.540
a more natural affiliation to the church."

538
00:25:09.540 --> 00:25:12.281
Well why in the world shouldn't they be running it then?

539
00:25:12.281 --> 00:25:14.936
Or directing it, or you know, helping to lead it?

540
00:25:14.936 --> 00:25:18.217
If women have throughout the ages, had this kind of wisdom

541
00:25:18.217 --> 00:25:19.415
and knowledge of what it means

542
00:25:19.415 --> 00:25:22.312
to have a spiritual life for the family.

543
00:25:22.312 --> 00:25:23.845
Yeah, so it only made sense to me.

544
00:25:23.845 --> 00:25:26.083
There was some, for me the whole Re-Imagining thing

545
00:25:26.083 --> 00:25:29.255
was like a "ah-ha!" moments the entire time,

546
00:25:29.255 --> 00:25:31.643
like yes, yes, yes!

547
00:25:31.643 --> 00:25:32.476
I could just say, you know.

548
00:25:32.476 --> 00:25:35.178
(they both laugh)

549
00:25:35.178 --> 00:25:37.261
And then of course, yeah,

550
00:25:38.096 --> 00:25:41.624
so the challenges of women thinkers,

551
00:25:41.624 --> 00:25:45.791
who would come up with, not only just kind of brilliance

552
00:25:47.301 --> 00:25:49.828
in their words, but then, the emphasis

553
00:25:49.828 --> 00:25:51.414
that the Re-Imagining community had

554
00:25:51.414 --> 00:25:54.127
on this international community, so you got

555
00:25:54.127 --> 00:25:57.029
these influences from cultures that were really different

556
00:25:57.029 --> 00:25:59.862
from American or European culture,

557
00:26:00.964 --> 00:26:02.838
and those were stunning.

558
00:26:02.838 --> 00:26:04.797
You know, I wish I could think of something in particular

559
00:26:04.797 --> 00:26:07.180
that jumped out to me right now, because I've had

560
00:26:07.180 --> 00:26:09.559
so many global Christian experiences in my life,

561
00:26:09.559 --> 00:26:13.292
they get a little bit mixed up together.

562
00:26:13.292 --> 00:26:16.543
But, yeah, the images of God as mother

563
00:26:16.543 --> 00:26:19.043
and God as birthing, creative,

564
00:26:23.435 --> 00:26:27.268
cosmology in the world of the word and wisdom,

565
00:26:28.118 --> 00:26:32.019
you know, being one, all of that just changed for me,

566
00:26:32.019 --> 00:26:34.778
the way I look at the Bible, the way I lead worship,

567
00:26:34.778 --> 00:26:37.658
they way I look at music, it's really fundamental.

568
00:26:37.658 --> 00:26:39.836
<v ->Yeah, well that brings me to my next question.</v>

569
00:26:39.836 --> 00:26:41.836
Which is, how did you involvement in Re-Imagining

570
00:26:41.836 --> 00:26:44.305
change your perspective on feminist theology

571
00:26:44.305 --> 00:26:45.634
and or the church?

572
00:26:45.634 --> 00:26:46.973
<v ->Mm hmm, yeah.</v>

573
00:26:46.973 --> 00:26:50.094
Well, and I would have to say that this is kind of the same

574
00:26:50.094 --> 00:26:53.202
as feminism in general in our culture right now.

575
00:26:53.202 --> 00:26:55.380
You know, the question about what happened to it,

576
00:26:55.380 --> 00:26:57.907
like, people will say, "what happened to feminism?"

577
00:26:57.907 --> 00:27:00.385
Well, so for me, in the communities that I move in,

578
00:27:00.385 --> 00:27:02.176
which I recognize are really off

579
00:27:02.176 --> 00:27:05.292
on the left progressive end,

580
00:27:05.292 --> 00:27:07.504
and I am sometimes a little chagrined about that,

581
00:27:07.504 --> 00:27:09.539
because I don't know that it's healthy for me to stay

582
00:27:09.539 --> 00:27:11.789
in that little safety zone.

583
00:27:13.427 --> 00:27:15.599
The rest of the world, obviously from our elections

584
00:27:15.599 --> 00:27:17.569
that are going on, are operating

585
00:27:17.569 --> 00:27:21.638
in a much different way than I do in my circles.

586
00:27:21.638 --> 00:27:25.599
So, for me, it was like, "oh, feminism just moved

587
00:27:25.599 --> 00:27:29.810
into the world and became widely accepted

588
00:27:29.810 --> 00:27:31.624
and part of who we are."

589
00:27:31.624 --> 00:27:34.007
Well, that was my little world, and of course,

590
00:27:34.007 --> 00:27:35.460
I don't think that's true.

591
00:27:35.460 --> 00:27:38.056
So I think it was a backlash, so it's that whole thing

592
00:27:38.056 --> 00:27:40.423
about one step forward and two steps back.

593
00:27:40.423 --> 00:27:43.723
So there was a backlash within the church.

594
00:27:43.723 --> 00:27:46.810
However, I would have to say that the GLBTQ movement

595
00:27:46.810 --> 00:27:50.987
has helped to move also a lot of the feminist agenda forward

596
00:27:50.987 --> 00:27:53.820
as well as the anti-racist agenda.

597
00:27:54.988 --> 00:27:59.019
So, praise the Lord, praise the goddess,

598
00:27:59.019 --> 00:28:03.208
we are all, you know, working together to make for a world

599
00:28:03.208 --> 00:28:07.375
that is valuing the wisdom, knowledge, gifts and leadership

600
00:28:09.009 --> 00:28:12.818
of all people, regardless of any of those things

601
00:28:12.818 --> 00:28:15.561
that I don't even look at anymore, so it's hard for me

602
00:28:15.561 --> 00:28:18.096
when I get, even into a conversation with people about,

603
00:28:18.096 --> 00:28:19.987
"oh, well she was a woman who the head

604
00:28:19.987 --> 00:28:23.797
of a church all by herself," that I think, "yeah, I mean..."

605
00:28:23.797 --> 00:28:26.790
Or you know, "can a transgender person be a pastor?"

606
00:28:26.790 --> 00:28:28.128
And I'm just like, "well, why couldn't they?"

607
00:28:28.128 --> 00:28:30.986
I mean, it's just, for me, like I said,

608
00:28:30.986 --> 00:28:33.353
I get kind of impatient about that.

609
00:28:33.353 --> 00:28:36.226
<v ->Do you think any of this is the legacy of Re-Imagining</v>

610
00:28:36.226 --> 00:28:41.195
or do you think mostly the backlash was effective in...

611
00:28:41.195 --> 00:28:42.246
What do you think?

612
00:28:42.246 --> 00:28:44.304
<v ->Hmm, in moving the feminism into the church, or?</v>

613
00:28:44.304 --> 00:28:47.088
<v ->Yeah, was it, did Re-Imagining succeed in doing that?</v>

614
00:28:47.088 --> 00:28:49.347
What is the legacy of it in the end, would you say?

615
00:28:49.347 --> 00:28:51.731
<v ->Oh absolutely, I think they succeeded.</v>

616
00:28:51.731 --> 00:28:55.073
I think the movement succeeded, you know,

617
00:28:55.073 --> 00:28:57.645
to some of us it might be to a smaller degree

618
00:28:57.645 --> 00:28:59.744
than we had hoped, but it's just

619
00:28:59.744 --> 00:29:02.229
that incremental and it's in there now.

620
00:29:02.229 --> 00:29:05.710
I mean, if you look at, well 'cause of my perspective

621
00:29:05.710 --> 00:29:08.701
with music, you know, hymnity of the church now,

622
00:29:08.701 --> 00:29:12.753
the, a lot of churches are still really resistant

623
00:29:12.753 --> 00:29:14.878
to it, so you can't discount the fact

624
00:29:14.878 --> 00:29:17.197
that there are small rural churches for example,

625
00:29:17.197 --> 00:29:20.752
all around the world that are still using old resources

626
00:29:20.752 --> 00:29:22.150
and still want to do the same thing

627
00:29:22.150 --> 00:29:23.880
that they did a hundred years ago.

628
00:29:23.880 --> 00:29:26.797
But, for the church moving forward,

629
00:29:27.848 --> 00:29:30.964
change of language in hymns, definitely.

630
00:29:30.964 --> 00:29:33.256
Change of language in worship, I mean, I'd have to say

631
00:29:33.256 --> 00:29:36.414
that in the Christian context, the UCC Church,

632
00:29:36.414 --> 00:29:38.439
has obviously been in the forefront of that,

633
00:29:38.439 --> 00:29:40.802
because they started doing it before anybody else did.

634
00:29:40.802 --> 00:29:45.389
But in almost every denomination now, that has,

635
00:29:45.389 --> 00:29:46.948
it's just mysterious to me though,

636
00:29:46.948 --> 00:29:50.198
that it's still only 30, in the 30 years,

637
00:29:50.198 --> 00:29:52.821
somewhere for most of the main Protestant denominations

638
00:29:52.821 --> 00:29:55.141
that women have been ordained.

639
00:29:55.141 --> 00:29:58.026
It just, I mean, if you look at that, that's not very long--

640
00:29:58.026 --> 00:29:58.859
<v ->Right.</v>

641
00:29:58.859 --> 00:29:59.806
<v ->In church history, so...</v>

642
00:29:59.806 --> 00:30:00.693
<v ->That's true.</v>

643
00:30:00.693 --> 00:30:02.238
<v ->So to have the Re-Imagining movement in the midst</v>

644
00:30:02.238 --> 00:30:06.265
of those 30 years, makes such a strong impact,

645
00:30:06.265 --> 00:30:09.464
has been such an incredible blessing and legacy,

646
00:30:09.464 --> 00:30:11.224
gift of that community.

647
00:30:11.224 --> 00:30:13.641
<v ->Great, oh that's wonderful.</v>

648
00:30:15.222 --> 00:30:17.018
Couple, two final questions.

649
00:30:17.018 --> 00:30:18.885
What do you think Re-Imagining means today

650
00:30:18.885 --> 00:30:21.370
and I don't just mean the Re-Imagining community,

651
00:30:21.370 --> 00:30:24.095
but I mean, what needs to be re-imagined still

652
00:30:24.095 --> 00:30:25.928
in church and society?

653
00:30:26.981 --> 00:30:28.800
<v ->That's the big question!</v>

654
00:30:28.800 --> 00:30:30.572
That's the one we're asking ourselves all of us

655
00:30:30.572 --> 00:30:32.968
who are leadership in churches that are caring

656
00:30:32.968 --> 00:30:34.475
about that and thinking about it.

657
00:30:34.475 --> 00:30:35.414
<v ->Exactly.</v>

658
00:30:35.414 --> 00:30:38.893
<v ->What does it mean to re-imagine church today?</v>

659
00:30:38.893 --> 00:30:41.655
As in the body of Christ as what I would say.

660
00:30:41.655 --> 00:30:45.535
Because what I see are a lot of different expressions

661
00:30:45.535 --> 00:30:49.837
out there now, it's not as homogeneous as it once was.

662
00:30:49.837 --> 00:30:54.456
And so, then I think what it means is what unites us

663
00:30:54.456 --> 00:30:58.417
and what allows us to be different and diverse

664
00:30:58.417 --> 00:31:02.084
and interesting and still fit into the body.

665
00:31:04.103 --> 00:31:05.597
So that's what I'd have to say.

666
00:31:05.597 --> 00:31:07.567
Like, we're back to sort of house churches

667
00:31:07.567 --> 00:31:10.168
and giant mega-churches and still some kind of

668
00:31:10.168 --> 00:31:13.085
little brick on the corner churches

669
00:31:13.962 --> 00:31:17.746
and you know, within that, what I would hope,

670
00:31:17.746 --> 00:31:21.395
and this is where, you know, like I said,

671
00:31:21.395 --> 00:31:23.252
one step forward two steps back.

672
00:31:23.252 --> 00:31:26.229
You know some of those communities are actually going

673
00:31:26.229 --> 00:31:29.161
backwards in the conservative way that I would say,

674
00:31:29.161 --> 00:31:31.120
they're still very male, very hierarchical,

675
00:31:31.120 --> 00:31:34.012
very patriarchal, God is a king, we're going to heaven,

676
00:31:34.012 --> 00:31:37.123
and that's sort of the end of the story.

677
00:31:37.123 --> 00:31:41.027
So that's troubling to me, but I think that the groups

678
00:31:41.027 --> 00:31:44.562
that feel they're moving into the new millennium

679
00:31:44.562 --> 00:31:48.312
and the new world, are all asking themselves,

680
00:31:49.518 --> 00:31:51.287
"what does this look like now,

681
00:31:51.287 --> 00:31:54.120
how can we be welcoming and open?"

682
00:31:57.103 --> 00:31:58.393
It's not as easy as that, though.

683
00:31:58.393 --> 00:32:00.601
That just sounds like some of that kind of cliched language

684
00:32:00.601 --> 00:32:03.360
that we've been using, so I'm struggling with that question.

685
00:32:03.360 --> 00:32:05.605
I'll tell you right now, my answer to that is,

686
00:32:05.605 --> 00:32:07.307
we're struggling with that question,

687
00:32:07.307 --> 00:32:09.870
and I think it's gonna be a really good struggle.

688
00:32:09.870 --> 00:32:14.299
But I don't know that I really see very clearly,

689
00:32:14.299 --> 00:32:16.101
what that's going to look like.

690
00:32:16.101 --> 00:32:18.482
<v ->So what is it that keeps you tied</v>

691
00:32:18.482 --> 00:32:20.035
to the Christian tradition?

692
00:32:20.035 --> 00:32:21.047
<v ->Mm hmm, yeah.</v>

693
00:32:21.047 --> 00:32:22.996
Well I think that struggle is pretty fascinating actually

694
00:32:22.996 --> 00:32:27.163
right now, because of so many interesting things happening.

695
00:32:28.292 --> 00:32:31.328
And because I see brothers and sisters

696
00:32:31.328 --> 00:32:34.495
in the faith struggling together to...

697
00:32:37.091 --> 00:32:40.008
Well what keeps me in the faith is,

698
00:32:41.003 --> 00:32:42.915
what keeps me in the Christian faith,

699
00:32:42.915 --> 00:32:44.703
is Jesus, I would have to say.

700
00:32:44.703 --> 00:32:47.294
So as a feminist, that's interesting.

701
00:32:47.294 --> 00:32:49.552
<v ->What is it about Jesus?</v>

702
00:32:49.552 --> 00:32:51.220
<v ->Well, Jesus was a feminist.</v>

703
00:32:51.220 --> 00:32:52.454
(she laughs)

704
00:32:52.454 --> 00:32:53.853
So there you go.

705
00:32:53.853 --> 00:32:55.183
(they both laugh)

706
00:32:55.183 --> 00:32:57.038
<v ->In what way, was He a feminist?</v>

707
00:32:57.038 --> 00:32:59.642
<v ->Well, Jesus was inclusive.</v>

708
00:32:59.642 --> 00:33:02.240
And not only a feminist in that regard,

709
00:33:02.240 --> 00:33:04.849
but I think more challenging, almost than feminism now,

710
00:33:04.849 --> 00:33:06.497
as I'm talking about the future of the church,

711
00:33:06.497 --> 00:33:10.452
is Jesus hung out with the wrong people.

712
00:33:10.452 --> 00:33:12.842
And we don't and haven't done that

713
00:33:12.842 --> 00:33:15.070
in the Christian faith very much.

714
00:33:15.070 --> 00:33:17.916
Isn't that interesting, that we stabilized ourselves

715
00:33:17.916 --> 00:33:20.229
in places that were just like us,

716
00:33:20.229 --> 00:33:23.271
and made kind of comfortable homes for ourselves.

717
00:33:23.271 --> 00:33:26.227
So that's what I think the struggle coming up is all about,

718
00:33:26.227 --> 00:33:29.621
is what does it mean to follow, really follow,

719
00:33:29.621 --> 00:33:32.402
like Gandhi said, "if Christians really followed Jesus,

720
00:33:32.402 --> 00:33:34.565
the world would be a much different place."

721
00:33:34.565 --> 00:33:36.594
And much more peaceful for one thing.

722
00:33:36.594 --> 00:33:40.233
So if we follow the way of peace and the way of hanging out

723
00:33:40.233 --> 00:33:45.022
with the wrong people, I think we could really move

724
00:33:45.022 --> 00:33:48.326
into an interesting future, that's why I hang with Jesus.

725
00:33:48.326 --> 00:33:49.950
<v ->Yeah, I love it.</v>

726
00:33:49.950 --> 00:33:52.766
One last question, the Re-Imagining community is developing

727
00:33:52.766 --> 00:33:56.301
a website and part of it's going to be historical,

728
00:33:56.301 --> 00:33:58.728
we are digitizing all of the conferences, they're going

729
00:33:58.728 --> 00:34:02.430
to be available online, a bunch of different resources.

730
00:34:02.430 --> 00:34:04.636
So I'm wondering if you have thoughts about

731
00:34:04.636 --> 00:34:08.264
what would be helpful to include in that website.

732
00:34:08.264 --> 00:34:09.734
<v ->I would just love to have some</v>

733
00:34:09.734 --> 00:34:12.053
of what we've been talking about, like the history,

734
00:34:12.053 --> 00:34:14.905
a timeline would be really fun to see.

735
00:34:14.905 --> 00:34:16.067
<v ->Okay, great.</v>

736
00:34:16.067 --> 00:34:18.504
<v ->Even just a little timeline of events and maybe</v>

737
00:34:18.504 --> 00:34:20.466
kind of main names that were associated with them,

738
00:34:20.466 --> 00:34:23.464
or ways you could link into who were the presenters--

739
00:34:23.464 --> 00:34:24.332
<v ->Great idea.</v>

740
00:34:24.332 --> 00:34:25.796
<v ->And where and when did that happen.</v>

741
00:34:25.796 --> 00:34:26.629
<v ->Yeah.</v>

742
00:34:26.629 --> 00:34:31.120
<v ->And then, a continuing, almost blog-like conversation</v>

743
00:34:31.120 --> 00:34:33.348
about what we've just been talking about,

744
00:34:33.348 --> 00:34:36.428
what did Re-Imagining mean then, what was accomplished,

745
00:34:36.428 --> 00:34:38.600
or what happened during all those years,

746
00:34:38.600 --> 00:34:42.723
and then what's happening as a kind of a outgrowth

747
00:34:42.723 --> 00:34:46.678
of all of that amazing energy, would be really fascinating.

748
00:34:46.678 --> 00:34:49.629
<v ->That is great, wonderful ideas!</v>

749
00:34:49.629 --> 00:34:51.383
Is there anything we haven't discussed

750
00:34:51.383 --> 00:34:53.496
that you would like to add?

751
00:34:53.496 --> 00:34:55.786
<v ->Well, I do just want to reiterate as we did</v>

752
00:34:55.786 --> 00:34:59.950
before we started taping, the legacy of Madeline Sue Martin

753
00:34:59.950 --> 00:35:04.060
and just what an influence she was on men and women alike

754
00:35:04.060 --> 00:35:07.299
and the people she worked with, so it's tearing me up

755
00:35:07.299 --> 00:35:09.216
because she was amazing

756
00:35:10.265 --> 00:35:13.015
and she was so ahead of her time.

757
00:35:14.103 --> 00:35:17.853
So to have her be leading us into that future

758
00:35:19.158 --> 00:35:21.774
was just an amazing, beautiful thing.

759
00:35:21.774 --> 00:35:22.902
<v ->Thank you so much.</v>

760
00:35:22.902 --> 00:35:25.485
<v ->Well, thank you.</v>
<v ->Thank you.</v>