Felix Armfield: Take three. Back with Mrs. Goods and Mrs. Lundy. Mrs. Goods, we were talking about the meeting with Ms. Rita Miller when she's about to offer you the job. Laura Jordan Goods: Mm-hmm. Felix Armfield: Go on. Laura Jordan Goods: And she sat me down she said, "I talked to administrative care already," and I said, "Yes, they would accept a Black person in this position." Or at least they told her they would prefer one who had [indistinct 00:00:36], and they come through their affiliation without creating any problems, and who the founders of [indistinct 00:00:44] affiliated with us. I mean their charity and she said, "The only person I could think of was you." I'm not saying [indistinct 00:00:51] for you and [indistinct 00:00:57]. Felix Armfield: Okay. Laura Jordan Goods: [indistinct 00:01:00] louder and read [indistinct 00:01:01] the scripture. So, I did what she told me and I find it, and [indistinct 00:01:06] about that, but that was a new position. Felix Armfield: So, when did you get this position? Laura Jordan Goods: I joined the faculty at Dillard in September of '51. Felix Armfield: Okay. Laura Jordan Goods: And I coordinated instruction for students [indistinct 00:01:23]. In that position, I did not have a lot of clout or power to begin with. But, I was documenting the power and authority and the racism, because the head nurses was still over us, and the strange thing about it, about a week before I took it, I got permission from the directors to throw on a GYN to update my skills. And when the first person got [indistinct 00:01:53] the ladies who laughed at me that I was working. [indistinct 00:01:57]. Felix Armfield: Mm-hmm. Laura Jordan Goods: And she said, "Oh, I don't want you coming to work for me [indistinct 00:02:05]." Right, right. [indistinct 00:02:05] And I said, "No." I said, "This mass has given me permission to come up here and fast and to and let me practice updating my skill." I was telling next week at school [indistinct 00:02:22]. I wish you could have seen that lady's face. Felix Armfield: [indistinct 00:02:29]. Laura Jordan Goods: And three days later when I showed up to continue my skills, she had been transferred. She could not deal with this person who she had laughed at coming back to be in a supervisor position, and her BSN, and she only had it before. She had a problem with that. And it was very difficult in '51, coming the only Black teacher ever assigned in that area with these four Black students, I only had four, and we were assigned to the Color side. Felix Armfield: Mm-hmm. Laura Jordan Goods: It was Colored patients giving off the students, because the way our uniforms were different, everybody else was falling right, and do this [indistinct 00:03:27] in this blue dress, white apron, [indistinct 00:03:31] cap, black stockings and shoes. They thought they were aids, [indistinct 00:03:36] but we had to claim to them who we were, and we would always address them as "Mr." And "Mrs." and they didn't know how to accept that, because they had never been called that before. They were always called by their first names, and the doctors would call them girls and boys and they wanted to call you girls and boys, and I told them what's my name? [indistinct 00:04:00] and I was not a girl. Felix Armfield: Mm-hmm. Laura Jordan Goods: And then they wanted to tell me which hates your [indistinct 00:04:06], and what I was supposed to do and I would not agree with them, so I ended up [indistinct 00:04:14] in the elective office, and they were looking for every reason to throw us out. Felix Armfield: Mm-hmm. Laura Jordan Goods: I could still work [indistinct 00:04:20] many days, because I stayed [indistinct 00:04:26] check every room in the area, and see what we got in every eye [indistinct 00:04:33] right. I was even [indistinct 00:04:35], but I just stood my ground, and finally I took over the assignment, the location, and the teaching of all classes for these students, and they recruited other Black graduates from, and work in specialty areas with me, and I did that until I returned when I had a heart attack on [indistinct 00:05:03]. Felix Armfield: Mm-hmm. Laura Jordan Goods: Because I was taking then to ICU. By this time, I took a leave in '50, '59 to go and get a [indistinct 00:05:14], and I designed the curriculum, for medical surgical [indistinct 00:05:30] the students. And when I came back, I carried all that information. I [indistinct 00:05:30] all of that in my teaching practices. Felix Armfield: Okay. Laura Jordan Goods: So, my students were going into [indistinct 00:05:32] into the other schools in the ICU, because they got backgrounds in the ICU. And I wrote those [indistinct 00:05:42] from the back, but I think and we were then proving our curriculum from four years, and I was already committed and I was just going to say, [indistinct 00:05:52] and I overworked myself, and I ended up in ICU [indistinct 00:05:58]. Felix Armfield: Cool, cool. Laura Jordan Goods: The good thing about it, the ones who took care of me [indistinct 00:06:04], and they took very good care of me. And when I came back, I was pulled out of the charity area, I was placed on the campus as a teacher, so I moved from instructor, to assistant professor, to associate professor, and for two years I was acting chair. Felix Armfield: What's that? Laura Jordan Goods: So, I have a lot of experience [indistinct 00:06:28] Black and I came to stay a year, and then I said I say three, and like my mentor, Ms. Miller, I stayed like that. Felix Armfield: One of [indistinct 00:06:41] Millers. Laura Jordan Goods: Yes, I'm one of the original. We call it, you know [indistinct 00:06:46]? Who came behind us in the room, they are not the original [indistinct 00:06:51] Miller, but I'm one of the originals. Felix Armfield: You one of [indistinct 00:07:06]. Laura Jordan Goods: Yes. Felix Armfield: Great. Well, certainly I could have a [indistinct 00:07:06] of Black women in place, [indistinct 00:07:06] the whole rise of Blackness, and helped get our input in perspective for all of us, and more than likely a little [indistinct 00:07:14] certain stands out in all of us [indistict 00:07:15]. Laura Jordan Goods: Yes, she does. Felix Armfield: You just read that book. Laura Jordan Goods: Yes, I read that book. Felix Armfield: Yeah. Laura Jordan Goods: And I get tested by that, because she was my teacher then I just [indistinct 00:07:24], and even when she got married and went to New York, we talked [indistinct 00:07:29] and we sometimes a real time and that. And when she became seriously ill, Ms. Harget, who lives in New Jersey, got in contact with me, and still does, called me and told me Ms. Miller was critically ill, and she communicated to me and when she died, she called me, and I gave it to the rest of the people in the New Orleans area. Laura Jordan Goods: But I owe a lot to a lot of Black nurse. And Miss E. Lines Baker was my church person, and she was, by the time I finished nursing at Dillard, E. Lines had established a school of anesthesia, I was [indistinct 00:08:17] the nurse. It was the first Black school for [indistinct 00:08:24] to go and become anesthetists. She established it with the person who was in charge of anesthesiology at Charity. I can't think of his name, but Black nurses came from all over the South, to [indistinct 00:08:44]. To get into that school Felix Armfield: Okay. Laura Jordan Goods: So, I know that boy's not in the [indistinct 00:08:48], but E. Lines is a trailblazer. Felix Armfield: Okay. Laura Jordan Goods: [indistinct 00:08:48] is a trailblazer. This lady was a trailblazer. Because Jonesy was one of the first five nurses to be hired full time at Charity. Felix Armfield: [indistinct 00:09:10] Why don't we get ready try and wrap up here. Is there anything else that you'd like to say to add to our interview, before we get ready to wrap it up? Before [indistict 00:09:19]. Veora Hawkins Lundy: Not anything, specified, but I think if the grand thing to get these things in perspective, because there have been a lot of nurses who made contributions and especially Estelle Hubbard. I mean she made her contribution almost alone, and she said, "Half of my house, you have a clinic there." Felix Armfield: Mm-hmm. Veora Hawkins Lundy: There was no other excuse. And from her clinics, and clinics all over the City of New Orleans for Black people, I mean for two. Felix Armfield: And when did she open that [indistinct 00:09:55], if you [indistinct 00:09:55] she opened it? Veora Hawkins Lundy: No, it was before my time. It was way before my time. I hadn't finished nursing when she—I mean I had not entered nursing when Ms. Hubbard established that clinic. I'm so sorry we didn't get— Laura Jordan Goods: You have your eyeglasses. Is she in this picture? Ms. Hubbard, because— Veora Hawkins Lundy: Right here. There she is. Laura Jordan Goods: Okay. Veora Hawkins Lundy: That's Estelle Hubbard. Laura Jordan Goods: See, because we celebrated the fiftieth anniversary of this sorority, that they established, and these were the charter members. See? I did not know all of those people. Veora Hawkins Lundy: Yeah. Laura Jordan Goods: They were before my time. It's actually when you called— Veora Hawkins Lundy: Estelle Hubbard. Laura Jordan Goods: —I wanted to look it. Veora Hawkins Lundy: Estelle Hubbard was way before my time, but she had established herself and— Yeah, here she is. Laura Jordan Goods: That's where the picture came from and you gave them the picture. Veora Hawkins Lundy: Yeah. That's only in the— Laura Jordan Goods: We have no longer this sorority, [indistinct 00:10:52]. I started learning for history from these ladies. Laura Jordan Goods: Those were some of the old trailblazers. Felix Armfield: There's Mr. [indistinct 00:10:52]. Laura Jordan Goods: Yes. Veora Hawkins Lundy: Yeah, yeah. Felix Armfield: Okay, that was probably before she got married. Laura Jordan Goods: Yes. Veora Hawkins Lundy: Yeah, oh yeah. And here's E. Lines Baker in the middle here. Laura Jordan Goods: Mm-hmm. Felix Armfield: And what's her name, E. Lines? Veora Hawkins Lundy: E. Lines Baker. Laura Jordan Goods: And she was well known by the [indistinct 00:11:46]. Veora Hawkins Lundy: Yeah. Laura Jordan Goods: And she was the [indistinct 00:11:49]. Veora Hawkins Lundy: Yeah. She was widely respected by White and Black doctors, yeah. Laura Jordan Goods: Yes. Felix Armfield: Okay. Let me ask just both of you a quick wrap of question. Got to get the paperwork done. Mrs. Lundy. Veora Hawkins Lundy: Yeah. Felix Armfield: Is Jim Crow dead or is Jim Crow alive and well? Veora Hawkins Lundy: No. It isn't dead, but our spirit isn't dead either. Felix Armfield: Okay, okay. Veora Hawkins Lundy: See, until you kill the fellow spirit, you can't kill them. Felix Armfield: Mm-hmm. Veora Hawkins Lundy: And a whole lot of things they're supposed to do, because they can't do anything else. Felix Armfield: Okay. Veora Hawkins Lundy: It's just like this politics now. These White people will almost kiss an Negroes foot if they think he got a following. Felix Armfield: Mm-hmm. Veora Hawkins Lundy: And that's the way it's going to be. Every time they run some kind of political movement, they used to make it a habit of coming to Mt. Zion, that's my church. Because that's a pretty good size congregation, and lot of people—Mom died in United Methodist Church, yeah. And it got so, we said we can't hardly have church, because the White folks coming. (laughs) But you got to keep the power. You got to keep it, absolutely. Felix Armfield: Mrs. Goods. Was Jim Crow dead or was Jim Crow alive as well? Laura Jordan Goods: No. Felix Armfield: No. Laura Jordan Goods: It's not dead. It is very much alive and well. Felix Armfield: Mm-hmm. Laura Jordan Goods: I was just at the meeting at the state board yesterday, and I got involved in the meeting. You see my girls won't let me alone, and Alerian, the one who dropped me off— Veora Hawkins Lundy: Yeah. Laura Jordan Goods: —was elected, she maneuvered, and got elected chairperson of the legislative committee. But the district nurses [indistinct 00:13:52]. Veora Hawkins Lundy: Mm-hmm. Laura Jordan Goods: And so, she's started calling Black nurses, since they gave our list, and she didn't see any Black names on our list, the committee list. So, she called to my former students, and they agreed to come on and one showed up yesterday and it's [indistinct 00:14:13]. Oh, and she called me, and I said, "Well, Alerian, you know that I didn't even renew my rights, since I didn't want to make the mistake of rights and nurses. I wanted to do other things with my life." Laura Jordan Goods: I said, "And I have got a membership in all the nursing [indistinct 00:14:35], so I don't think I'm eligible to be on your committee." She said, "That's why I'm calling you." She said, "Because I called down there, I was given your name, and I asked them that I recruit a person to be on my community who is retired, who has vision, and creative ideas, and [indistinct 00:14:53]," and I said yes. Laura Jordan Goods: So, your name is on here? Laura Jordan Goods: And I think [indistinct 00:14:58]. We went into that meeting and you couldn't even imagine how much bias really is in that organization. Felix Armfield: Mm-hmm. Laura Jordan Goods: Oh, she had gone and had a live research about strategies for helping Core. She had went and got the [indistinct 00:15:21], and had gotten some ideas, and she had written for [indistinct 00:15:26] who wanted to know what the primary issues were regarding a new [indistinct 00:15:31], and he had several copies of this, and then she presented this to these five or six other writers. They said, "Oh, we don't need to be studying that, because we're not the [indistinct 00:15:45]." And we have to sit with them. It doesn't mean really hard [indistinct 00:15:52] discussing the issues that impact our nursing. And the people live there. And she insisted that they give us a copy of the Nurse Practice Act for the State of Louisiana, and that they give information about third party payments, which nurses are trying to get Felix Armfield: Mm-hmm. Laura Jordan Goods: —as independent practitioners, they didn't want to deal with that. Felix Armfield: Why? Laura Jordan Goods: You know it's interesting. It is really Felix Armfield: [indistinct 00:16:27]. Laura Jordan Goods: So, I am fairly committed to that. I will work with her on that. Veora Hawkins Lundy: On the Internet, I did. Felix Armfield: What? Veora Hawkins Lundy: And as long as we are a minority, it ain't going to be dead, and you might as well face it. Laura Jordan Goods: And I said to her, "Alerian, if this committee is going to deal honestly with the issues of health practices, and if the Nurse Practice Act was revised and updated, that's what I have to do, because the [indistinct 00:16:55] are the ones have to do it, and I suggest you touch base with the [indistinct 00:17:00] we had in Washington DC." I knew a lot about it, so I asked that she touch base with [inadistinct 00:17:05], who said I'm still in nursing, and [indistinct 00:17:09] back who has been well outside the sorority in you, and get in touch with my former professor at the University of Wisconsin, Sheleila, who is in the [indistinct 00:17:22] Clinton administration, because we are going to have the network and get it, and work it, and present it to them. And we're going to have to to reach out to get Black nurses to come and join this organization, so we can help. Felix Armfield: Mm-hmm. Laura Jordan Goods: And so we can go in [indistinct 00:17:39] be the representative, we go the Louisiana legislature, to get people to lobby, or talk individually to our senator to educate him, and we have a lot of Black there. We need to educate them. Felix Armfield: Yeah, yeah. Well, I think we're going to bring the report session of the interview to a close. And I'd like to thank both of you. Veora Hawkins Lundy: Well, I'm going to comment Laura Jordan Goods: [indistinct 00:18:09] Veora Hawkins Lundy: —whenever there is opportunity to push a cause for the Black people on the point. Felix Armfield: Thank you. It was so good to be able to talk to both of you. Laura Jordan Goods: And you know, when you push a cause for Black people, you push a cause for everybody, who's unemployed and [indistinct 00:18:22]. Felix Armfield: You push a cause for American people. Laura Jordan Goods: Right. Veora Hawkins Lundy: Yeah. Laura Jordan Goods: And you know that's why we love Cheryl [indistinct 00:18:29], so much She is for real and she is committed to the recent event. Felix Armfield: Yeah. [indistinct 00:18:39] thinning his touch. Veora Hawkins Lundy: You have do it. And I admire you for taking your time and being organized. Lot of people didn't organize for a job, and I admired that. Felix Armfield: Thank you. Laura Jordan Goods: Yes. Felix Armfield: Thank you so much [indistinct 00:18:55]. Laura Jordan Goods: So, we'll adopt you as one of our sons. [indistinct 00:18:57] I have my children, so you will have to be one of my children. And I just wanted to—