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<v ->At the time and as I look back,</v>

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there was a certain point where I said,

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"Boy, we're really being marginalized here."

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In terms of...
<v ->Who's we?</v>

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The Navy JAG, the Army JAG

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the Air Force JAG.

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I mean we were,

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we usually meet with the general counsel

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on a fairly frequent basis.

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I wanna say monthly.

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We had a particular meeting with him

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where we were still all gathered at,

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we'd meet over lunch.

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And he would, we, the JAGs

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the Army, Navy, Air Force JAG, common ops lawyer,

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we all met outside the room.

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And at that point, I don't want to jump so far ahead,

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but discussions had started about commissions,

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you know, what we would do.

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And I remember the Army JAG, Tom Romig saying,

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we, you know, we need more information.

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I mean, we're kind of operating in a vacuum here.

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And I said, yeah, my guys are saying the same thing.

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I mean, they're saying, what am I supposed to be working on?

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And I'm saying, I'm not sure.

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Keep doing research, you know.

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Research commissions, you know, write down some opinions.

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So he said well we need more information.

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I said, and I said, I'll give it a shot.

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So we went into this lunch, and this is another,

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it's a vignette, but I remember it.

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Jim went around the room and we all,

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you know, gave him reports, Jim Haynes.

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And we went around the room

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and we just gave him, you know, our little reports,

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what was going on in our world, nothing really significant.

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And so we had a little talk about the commissions

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and I was, I just have,

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we sat wherever we wanted at these things,

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but this meeting I just happen to be sitting

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right across the table from him.

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And I said, Jim, are we on the team or not?

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I mean, we need more information.

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And this collegial meeting turned at that point

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he just looked at me and he said, no you don't.

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I said, okay, we don't.

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So we walked out afterwards and as guys will do,

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you know, they kind of slapped me on the back.

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And I said, I gave it a shot.

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I mean, I, we're only going to get the information

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they want to give us.