Kate Ellis: What you just said is that you developed a reputation as paying your musicians? Olivia Williams Cook: Yes. Kate Ellis: And you were saying that you would pay them more? Olivia Williams Cook: That's right. Kate Ellis: A little bit more. Olivia Williams Cook: [indistinct 00:00:11] two dollars more. Kate Ellis: Just so that they'd do the job right? Olivia Williams Cook: That's right. That's right. A long time, when I came out—Nobody got no jobs, so we had gotten my own jobs. Kate Ellis: I see. You would have a middle person— Olivia Williams Cook: No, no, no. Kate Ellis: You talk. Well, who would hire you? Who did you have connections with that would— Olivia Williams Cook: Well, at that time, I had Whites at the time. At that time, you had a lot of Colored clubs. Kate Ellis: Now what time are we talking about? What decade about, are you talking about? Olivia Williams Cook: Around in the '60s and '70s. Because my first trip I took overseas was in '75. Kate Ellis: 1975? Really? Olivia Williams Cook: Uh-huh. I took a trip to Norway. Kate Ellis: Hm. Olivia Williams Cook: Trip to Norway. And at that time, those were the most hospitable people you have ever seen. Kate Ellis: In Norway? Olivia Williams Cook: A guy who plays—the trumpet player Wallace Davenport asked me to go over there. I went over there with him. Kate Ellis: Wallace Davenport? Olivia Williams Cook: Davenport. The people over there didn't know anything about Amazing Grace, What a Friend We Have in Jesus, Precious Lord, Hold My Hand. We were the first to bring that over there. Kate Ellis: Wow. Olivia Williams Cook: At that time, I went to Norway. A couple years later, I went back over there again and did concerts. One year we were there with—I was on the road about six, eight weeks. We were—Let's see. We went to Copenhagen. We went to several parts of Germany, several parts of France, Paris, France. And we went to the Hague House, we went to the Hague. Hague, you ever went there? Kate Ellis: No. Olivia Williams Cook: You went to Finland, 500 miles before you get to Russia. Oh. One night we were caught in a storm. I'll never forget that night. Kate Ellis: One night— Olivia Williams Cook: One night. About, I forget how many thousand feet in the air we were. I remember just going around and around and around. [indistinct 00:03:51] This guy was a Swede. I met him down here, I used to play down here with him. That was after this segregation. I was so afraid that night. Kate Ellis: You were afraid? Olivia Williams Cook: Of that storm. Ooh, that was a terrible storm. Everybody was going around like this. The airplane was going around like this, instead of going this way, which— Kate Ellis: You were flipping? You were spinning? Olivia Williams Cook: That's right. So finally, I got myself seated, I said, "Well, God, I guess I will see my people tomorrow." I asked Him to bless everyone and bless me. At that time, boy that was talking to me, he said, "Charlotte, what you doing?" From Sweden. I said, "I'm praying." And Mama said, "Charlotte, you're praying. I know you're praying." I said, "I certainly am." I said, "You know me." So this guy from Sweden said, "Well, prayers won't do much good now." I said, "What did you say?" Olivia Williams Cook: I said, "Look, you can go in the back of the plane and go under the seat, but get away from me." He said, "Well, in my country, we don't have that much religion." I said, "Well you just through." Today I feel my prayers are the only thing that saved us. Yes, it did. That storm was so bad. Ooh. I forget how many hours late. All that pictures and all that stuff. How many hours late we were, because we were getting off the plane and the photographers was there and gave us flowers and whatnot. We were just sweating. We were scared [indistinct 00:06:18]. Kate Ellis: Yeah. Olivia Williams Cook: Would you believe, that was in Norway? And it had twelve hundred people waiting for us. They would sit there for hours. Mostly kids. Those kids was a byproduct of Hitler. Some had no arms, no legs, crippled. That's right. When they heard Precious Lord, Take My Hand, those three hymns, we couldn't play another one, in Norway. Yeah. Those kids, anywhere where you'd go, they'd ask "Can you play Precious Lord, Hold My Hand?" [indistinct 00:07:19] Kate Ellis: That was their first exposure to that. Olivia Williams Cook: Yeah. Like I say, I've had a lot of experience. I'm so thankful for it. I had my breast removed thirteen years ago, fifteen years ago. I had a cancer and it was called the killer cancer. [indistinct 00:07:51]. There. My whole breast gone. Now the doctors tell me "You need something in here." I said, "Don't even worry about it." I don't worry about it. Because he came through. He was a very good doctor. He taught me about how people get operated on in your eighties. That's like butchering cattle, at a certain age like that. You have to think about that knife because if you have an illness or something, slight something wrong with you and they open you up, they open you up and that air strikes that. Kate Ellis: I'm sorry? Olivia Williams Cook: The air strikes that— Kate Ellis: Mm-hmm. Olivia Williams Cook: —you're gone. So I told him, I said, "Doctor, I'm not even." He said, "Well, it may not spread no more than that." I said, "It don't hurt me." He said, "Lord, don't you worry." I said, "I'm not." And to tell you the truth of it, I had it on this side, it didn't hurt me. I had just come from—Where I come from? Switzerland. A week before. The doctor examined me real well while there. He said, "Evidently, it must have been in your family, caused your breast." Kate Ellis: So you didn't want to be operated on this time? Olivia Williams Cook: No, indeed. No, no. I just had my faith. That's all. Kate Ellis: Yeah. Olivia Williams Cook: Remember I'm not thirty-two or forty-two or fifty-two. I'm 81. Kate Ellis: Mm-hmm. As far as traveling around this country and the experiences you've had, do you feel that—I mean, you said that in Norway, people really welcomed you. Olivia Williams Cook: Oh, yeah. Kate Ellis: It sounds like. In other parts of— Olivia Williams Cook: In France too. France too. Kate Ellis: In other parts of the United States, do you think it was easier? Were you welcomed? Or was it— Olivia Williams Cook: Oh, sometime. Kate Ellis: Or did it vary? I mean, I guess— Olivia Williams Cook: It varies. I tell you, I'm going to [indistinct 00:10:31] all these states in United States, but there's one place I never been and I've never had a yearning to go. Kate Ellis: Where? Olivia Williams Cook: California. Kate Ellis: Really? You've never been and you've never wanted to go? Olivia Williams Cook: I tell you, my dad. I tell you what. I knew him as dad because that's the only thing dad I knew, my grandfather. Kate Ellis: Oh. Olivia Williams Cook: He used to tell me about how California was sitting on a rock. This is the rock, it's tilted. He said, "One day, it's going to slip right into the Pacific Ocean." And now they tell you can actually see it. Slipping all the time. Kate Ellis: So you thought you don't want to be there when it slips into the ocean? Olivia Williams Cook: No, no. I didn't want to go there and I sure don't want to go now. I know I have to die, but then you— Kate Ellis: Not that way. Olivia Williams Cook: —need your five senses. Kate Ellis: Wow. Olivia Williams Cook: Yes, sir. Kate Ellis: So can you tell me a little bit more about playing in the clubs in New Orleans, what that was like? I mean, I guess I'm struck by the idea of what you were saying about being a woman playing in a strip club and the men sort of not being allowed to look. And yet you being out there— Olivia Williams Cook: Unless they can use you like they want to. Kate Ellis: I'm sorry? Olivia Williams Cook: Unless they can use you like they want to. Kate Ellis: What do you mean? Olivia Williams Cook: I'm talking about being intimate. And I wasn't for that. Kate Ellis: You mean, as far as the club owners wanted— Olivia Williams Cook: No, no, no. Kate Ellis: The musicians? Olivia Williams Cook: The musicians, yeah. Kate Ellis: Mm-hmm. But they would sort of—I see, so— Olivia Williams Cook: Yeah. But it's a nice—The clubs, you meet a lot of nice people. And some appreciate you so well. You see, I played with the jazz festival now about 60 years ago. Kate Ellis: You've been playing in the Jazz Fest? Olivia Williams Cook: Oh yeah, a long time. People say I took this last one. And you meet so many nice people. I tell you what, being a musician, it has so much to offer. Makes you feel like you're alive. Kate Ellis: When you're playing? Olivia Williams Cook: Yeah. We had a [indistinct 00:13:34] they used to— Kate Ellis: I'm sorry. Olivia Williams Cook: Young man. Not young man. But anyhow, used to play drums. [indistinct 00:13:44] so you're going to be like a Grand Marshal. And he had arthritis so bad, he could hardly walk. But seeing that drum set, bom, bom, bom. He [indistinct 00:14:02] and he walked [indistinct 00:14:04] miles he walked. As soon as that [indistinct 00:14:10] Kate Ellis: Oh, as long as he was playing the drums? Olivia Williams Cook: Yeah. But he was a Grand Marshal then. Just a Grand Marshal. He used two [indistinct 00:14:23] to carry the drums then. Grand Marshal. Kate Ellis: Tell me, what else did you like about being a musician, living the musician's life? Olivia Williams Cook: Well, I was happy to be able to make somebody else happy. Lots of folks say, "Will you play such-and-such?" I had a young man come to the club one night and he said he want me to—[indistinct 00:14:59] in that particular club. Kate Ellis: I'm sorry? Olivia Williams Cook: I wasn't working in that club. [indistinct 00:15:05] that club. He wanted to play What a Friend We Have in Jesus. He said, "I haven't seen [indistinct 00:15:13] long." [indistinct 00:15:16] I don't know where they are, they don't know where I am. I was working at the Sugar Bowl then. And the club that this guy was in was right around the corner, called the Bacina. Kate Ellis: The what? Olivia Williams Cook: Bacina. They came and got me and said, "Boy said, 'Go get Charlotte. Bet you that Charlotte knows that.'" And I played it the same [indistinct 00:15:44] Oh, did that man cry that night. Kate Ellis: Really? Olivia Williams Cook: Did he cry. Gave me a big tip. Music, you know it's said that the only earthly practice you will find up in the heaven is music. The only earthly practice you'll find in heaven is music. Now I took time to be talking to you, I said, I'll tell you one thing, when I get up there, they sure better have a harp or something for me because I want to play. Kate Ellis: Yeah. Huh. I mean, you mentioned earlier about that White performers, as far as playing jazz, the kind of music they were coming to hear you play and to teach them. They would never quite be able to play it the way that Black musicians could. Do you feel that—You've talked about how you would literally sit on your steps and ponder whether segregation— Olivia Williams Cook: Would ever end. Kate Ellis: —would ever end as you knew it. Has music, has that been something that's helped you through the pain of that— Olivia Williams Cook: Oh, yeah. Kate Ellis: —racism? Olivia Williams Cook: Yeah. I'll tell you about music, you can have your own problems. You're down, down, down. You ever get to your instrument, play it all. Hear the music, it lifts you. If you just hear the music, it lifts you. But if you can get your instrument and play it. Picks you up. Really picks you up. Really picks you up. I wouldn't give anything for that. I wouldn't. No, no, no. Kate Ellis: Do you feel that in general, as far as Black people as a group struggling in their communities, say, during Jim Crow and other times, do you feel that music has been a source of community strength, as well as personal strength? Olivia Williams Cook: It's a good point of communication. Good point. Now you see the Whites that come [indistinct 00:18:35] all get together. And they'll play and play together. Oh yeah. Oh yeah. Of course, you have a few of them, they'll make little funny remarks, but you don't pay any mind. If you intelligent and educated, you know they just saying that. Kate Ellis: You mean, like Whites when they say racist remarks or something? Olivia Williams Cook: Yeah. They trying to make you feel bad. It don't make me feel bad. Because while they're saying that, they're watching your fingers to see what you're doing, to see if they can do it. Yeah. There's one thing I'm glad I have [indistinct 00:19:18] They always taught me. Always taught me, "Don't hate anybody. Don't hate anybody. If you can't get along, stay away." I've always made that practice. I've always made that practice. Kate Ellis: Well— Olivia Williams Cook: Uh-huh. Kate Ellis: I know we're getting on in time, if you're— Olivia Williams Cook: What? Kate Ellis: If you're getting tired of talking here? Olivia Williams Cook: No, no, no, no, no. I don't have anything else to do. I had seen—Now, every year, but next month, the union will have its elections. Every year in September, we have elections. So now the man that I was under for a long time, the secretary of the union, he died last year. Another guy, Lou Dillons, that's a White guy. Now he played in the band with me a long time. Kate Ellis: This White guy did? Olivia Williams Cook: Yeah. He died. He got a job with me in the office and he died. Now I was received that, approximately two weeks ago, that the president of the union—He'd been president for years and years. Known as W-I-N—S-T-E-I-N. W-I-N-S-T-E-I-N. He— Kate Ellis: Winston? Let me grab your— Olivia Williams Cook: [indistinct 00:21:03] Steady. Oh, I got it. Kate Ellis: No, I took it off because I thought you had to get the phone. Olivia Williams Cook: [indistinct 00:21:36] Kate Ellis: You want me to—[indistinct 00:21:37] Olivia Williams Cook: Wait a minute. Oh yeah. Kate Ellis: Now it's upside down. Olivia Williams Cook: Upside down. The other side. Kate Ellis: Wait. Olivia Williams Cook: Is it all right? Kate Ellis: Mm-hmm. Olivia Williams Cook: The president of [indistinct 00:21:37] Now he's resigning because of the fact he has prostate cancer. And he feel his time is limited. But whatever job he got [indistinct 00:21:52] somebody else. Kate Ellis: He's going to— Olivia Williams Cook: He's going to give up. Let somebody else take over. Kate Ellis: Right. Olivia Williams Cook: So now I'm just waiting to see what's going to be the development of that. Kate Ellis: Some changes there? Olivia Williams Cook: Yeah. Kate Ellis: How was it when the two unions merged? Olivia Williams Cook: That was a real mess. Kate Ellis: Really? Olivia Williams Cook: Yeah. Yeah. They were 174—See, we didn't have a credit union. See, when I first joined the union, it was approximately five or six dollars a year. Membership dues. Now the dues now is approximately thirty-six dollars a year. Might be a little more. But I could really use—A certain amount of years, you're a certain age, you can apply for—We didn't have a pension. But after they joined, whatever we had, we had to give them. Whatever they had, we were entitled to theirs. So we were entitled to the pension. Kate Ellis: And the Black union didn't have that? Olivia Williams Cook: No. Kate Ellis: Why didn't the Black union have that? Olivia Williams Cook: I don't know why. I don't know why. But they had that. So I get a pension right now. Oh, they got sick about that for a while. Kate Ellis: The Whites did? Olivia Williams Cook: Yeah, but [indistinct 00:23:46] Well, they gave everything away that they had, you have to— Kate Ellis: So there was some— Olivia Williams Cook: —reciprocate. Kate Ellis: What about, how did the two hierarchies of the unions merge? I mean, how'd they take care of who would be president and who would be— Olivia Williams Cook: Well, after we merged, that's just it. After we merged, we [indistinct 00:24:11] the president of the White union stayed president of both the unions. Kate Ellis: What happened to the president of the Black union? Olivia Williams Cook: He was just gone. That's right. Speaker 1: How y'all doing? Olivia Williams Cook: Pretty good. Speaker 1: Alright. Olivia Williams Cook: He was just gone. You see? Kate Ellis: Yeah. Olivia Williams Cook: He was just gone. You see? That's the main thing. Beside that, they only hired—Let's see, the president of the union, the White union, well, he hired the secretary. That was the president, was the secretary of the Colored president. Kate Ellis: He hired the secretary of—I see, of the Black president? Olivia Williams Cook: Uh-huh. Kate Ellis: Uh-huh. Olivia Williams Cook: Then we had about two more Colored. Al Corns. I think he was a delegate, like a traveling delegate. And we had Mr. Crump. Now Mr. Crump is still there. Kate Ellis: Yeah, I [indistinct 00:25:12] Mr. Crump. Olivia Williams Cook: You saw him? Kate Ellis: I didn't see him. I spoke with him. Olivia Williams Cook: Ah. Kate Ellis: To see if he would do an interview with me. Olivia Williams Cook: Yeah. Kate Ellis: He said no. Olivia Williams Cook: He wouldn't do an interview? Kate Ellis: He said he wouldn't. Olivia Williams Cook: No? Crump's so rich [indistinct 00:25:29] That man owned a jewelry store. Kate Ellis: I'm sorry? Olivia Williams Cook: He one time owned a jewelry store. Kate Ellis: What's that? Olivia Williams Cook: A jewelry store. Kate Ellis: Oh. [indistinct 00:25:37] I see. Olivia Williams Cook: Yeah. Kate Ellis: So he's got some money. Olivia Williams Cook: Oh, he's got money. Kate Ellis: Doesn't need to bother with an interview. Olivia Williams Cook: He works at the union and at that time, when he was playing, he was one of the best saxophone players here. Kate Ellis: Really? Olivia Williams Cook: Yeah. I think he owns a hotel here now. I don't know what else. Kate Ellis: [indistinct 00:26:07] Olivia Williams Cook: You can see me waving. Everybody knows me. Kate Ellis: Yeah. I can see that. Olivia Williams Cook: All the kids. People in [indistinct 00:26:20] the kids [indistinct 00:26:21] Kate Ellis: Well, you've probably seen a lot of generations of people come up in this neighborhood. Olivia Williams Cook: Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. This over here, I have here, that's [indistinct 00:26:35] my mother bought this house for me. Of course, after I tore down this one, had this one moved in here. Kate Ellis: I'm sorry, say that again. The— Olivia Williams Cook: My mother bought this property when I was 50 years old, for me. Kate Ellis: For you. Olivia Williams Cook: For me. But there was another house. Well, we had that house torn down and at that time, it was, remember those high-rises [indistinct 00:27:02] a lot of new houses. I had this house moved and brought [indistinct 00:27:09] Kate Ellis: Now, your mother, you told me. [indistinct 00:27:14] my notes, what your mother did to earn a living because your father was— Olivia Williams Cook: My grandfather was a very proud man. Very, very proud. He asked my mother, "When you're ready, do you want to [indistinct 00:27:33] or you want to keep it?" She said, "I want to [indistinct 00:27:46]" "All right," he said, "Well, I won't make you do anything you don't want to do." When we went to the hearing, my father [indistinct 00:27:49] My father didn't come to the hearing, so the judge gave my mother her divorce. My grandfather's name was William James Mayo. That was his name. He said, "Well, William. What if I make this guy pay alimony?" He said, "Judge, I'm a poor man." He said, "I make no man take care of his child. If he don't have that kind of pride," he says, "I don't make him." "Yes, you will." Now I lived like a little queen too. Kate Ellis: You lived like a queen? Olivia Williams Cook: Like a little queen. Yes, sir. He said, "I'm going to keep my mother home to take care of her." That's right. And my dad was on the railroad and my mother was out here. Grandmother was out here, nurse and midwife, bringing babies. They ain't but had but one more daughter, my mama's sister Silva. She went to school. After a while, she graduated, she started teaching kids. She taught school until her thirty years was up. Kate Ellis: Until her thirty— Olivia Williams Cook: Yes, retirement, retirement. I just can't remember. Yeah. My grandfather said he was Pullman porter until he retired. Very nice, [indistinct 00:29:37] I have the papers there right now. Kate Ellis: And what they said about him? Olivia Williams Cook: Yeah. [indistinct 00:29:46] And my grandmother—When you see me, you see my mama and my grandmother. Kate Ellis: Really? Olivia Williams Cook: My grandmother was a very proud woman. At that time, [indistinct 00:30:03] When she was doing midwifery, it was nothing for a woman to have a baby fifteen, sixteen pounds. Kate Ellis: Fifteen or sixteen pounds? Olivia Williams Cook: Yes, sir. And they didn't tear like they tear now. [indistinct 00:30:21] At that time, the nurses wore white blouses and a white skirt down to here. Kate Ellis: Down to their ankles. Olivia Williams Cook: She kept hers the same way. You could just stand them up. Kate Ellis: Clean and starched? Olivia Williams Cook: Many times she would go and say, "Where was he at?" "[indistinct 00:30:54] just me, Miss Mayo." "Where is your husband?" "I don't know." Kate Ellis: That's what she would say to— Olivia Williams Cook: To the mother-to-be. "Where's your husband?" Said, "I don't know." When the baby's born, it had but [indistinct 00:31:09] the baby. My grandmother would take her—After they wore underskirts as long as the skirt, take her underskirt and tear it and wrap that baby in it. Kate Ellis: That's what she did for people in the community? Olivia Williams Cook: That's right. Kate Ellis: She'd clothe the babies and these were poor women? Olivia Williams Cook: Yes. I remember when [indistinct 00:31:37] And she said [indistinct 00:31:45] Certain women would come. She'd always come to see—And my grandmother could look at you and tell you was pregnant. Kate Ellis: Really? She knew. Olivia Williams Cook: And she taught me. See now, let me tell you something. She said, "Bring me your urines." That's the urines, she'd look at mine. Whatever she seen, she'd say, "You pregnant." So [indistinct 00:32:12] they had no husbands. "Oh," she said, "So-and-so's coming?" Said, "Oh, she pregnant." "Oh," she say, "Well, so-and-so's wife will be here too. She's pregnant too." Kate Ellis: How would she—She just knew? Olivia Williams Cook: She just knew it. She just knew it. She had that kind of experience with it. Kate Ellis: Yeah. Olivia Williams Cook: Had that kind of experience with it. Telling you, something else. I'll tell you something better than that. Way, way back when I was a youngster. Wasn't even thinking about getting married. They had the thing known, it was called the gown men. Kate Ellis: The what? Olivia Williams Cook: The gown men. Kate Ellis: The gown men. Uh-huh. Olivia Williams Cook: They'd call up till one o'clock, two o'clock in the morning and say [indistinct 00:33:15] And my grandmother would say, "Ooh, I'm not going out there at this time of the morning." Gown Men there. She said, " [indistinct 00:33:23] You're crazy." She'd go by herself. Go by herself. Kate Ellis: Two, two— Olivia Williams Cook: One, two o'clock in the morning. She used to meet the Gown Men. They used to have long gowns on and bonnets. Kate Ellis: And bonnets? Olivia Williams Cook: Bonnets. They used to say they were students. Nobody really could prove that, but they would kidnap the babies and all that kind of stuff. Kate Ellis: Wait, the Gown Men, these were White men? Olivia Williams Cook: Yes, supposed to be. Kate Ellis: Who were these—I'm sorry, they were men, they were Gown Men? Wait, what would the Gown Men do? Olivia Williams Cook: They were student doctors. They said they were student doctors. Kate Ellis: Oh, okay. Olivia Williams Cook: They'd take the people, people would disappear. I guess they'd give them a needle and kill them and take them to work on or something. [indistinct 00:34:27] Kate Ellis: These were students, they were called Gown Men, they were White student doctors. Olivia Williams Cook: That's what they said they were. Kate Ellis: Who said they were? Olivia Williams Cook: That was a— Kate Ellis: That was known around here? Olivia Williams Cook: Yeah, around here. Kate Ellis: And your grandmother would go out at one or two in the morning— Olivia Williams Cook: [indistinct 00:34:49] Kate Ellis: To do what? Olivia Williams Cook: To go to [indistinct 00:34:52] these women. She'd be just walking by herself, going to—somebody would call her. Kate Ellis: I see, to have a baby. Olivia Williams Cook: And they'd say, they'd talk to theirself. My grandmother [indistinct 00:35:02] "Nurse, is that you?" She says, "Yes." "Go ahead. We're not going to worry you." Kate Ellis: What do you mean, grow up? What do you mean? Olivia Williams Cook: "Go on, we're not going to worry you." Kate Ellis: Oh, with this gown men. I see. So they let her pass without ever giving her any trouble? Olivia Williams Cook: Any trouble. Kate Ellis: Because they knew her. But she didn't know—I mean, these gown men, that sounds so mysterious. Olivia Williams Cook: Uh-huh. Kate Ellis: I mean, people would disappear? Bodies? Olivia Williams Cook: Listen, honey, there's a part there, see downtown with Canal Street? Kate Ellis: Uh-huh. Olivia Williams Cook: What street is that, baby, where the Chinatown used to be? Albert Joseph Cook: Chinatown? [indistinct 00:35:44] Rampart. Olivia Williams Cook: Yeah. Tulane, Rampart. Kate Ellis: That was Chinatown? Olivia Williams Cook: Yeah, Chinatown down there. Then you see the Chinamen was out, the long pipes, they're long. Kate Ellis: What? Olivia Williams Cook: Long, old pipes. You'd see old, long pipes. Albert Joseph Cook: [indistinct 00:36:06] pipes. Olivia Williams Cook: Opium. Kate Ellis: Oh, the Chinese men did? Olivia Williams Cook: Yeah. Kate Ellis: Opium pipes, uh-huh. Olivia Williams Cook: They had people used to go there. Dope was down there. It was not like it is now. It was in one place, like. And sometime, you'd never see those people no more. Kate Ellis: What people? People who went down to the— Olivia Williams Cook: To the— Albert Joseph Cook: [indistinct 00:36:27] down in Chinatown. Olivia Williams Cook: Chinatown. Albert Joseph Cook: It was like you wanted to smoke that dope, you'd go there. You take off the clothes you got on and redress you with the Chinese clothes. Olivia Williams Cook: That's right. Albert Joseph Cook: And you'd smoke that opium, you stayed in there two or three days. Olivia Williams Cook: Yeah. Albert Joseph Cook: Until you got over that high. Olivia Williams Cook: I guess so. They killed some of them. Albert Joseph Cook: Then they'd come out. Olivia Williams Cook: Never did come out. Kate Ellis: Who would go to these—I guess they're called opium dens? Olivia Williams Cook: Yeah. Kate Ellis: Who would go there? Olivia Williams Cook: Well, just who [indistinct 00:37:03] people that— Kate Ellis: People that what? Olivia Williams Cook: People that liked that kind of stuff. Participate in that kind of stuff. Kate Ellis: White and Black alike? Olivia Williams Cook: Yeah. Albert Joseph Cook: The people [indistinct 00:37:22] had this low control over it now. It's all over now. Olivia Williams Cook: Yeah. Albert Joseph Cook: [indistinct 00:37:28]. Olivia Williams Cook: Yeah. Albert Joseph Cook: And they doing this. They take off the clothes you have on now and they put on the Chinese outfit on. And you would smoke that stuff. Be in there for two or three days. Kate Ellis: [indistinct 00:37:42]. Olivia Williams Cook: Yes, they did. Albert Joseph Cook: When you came off that high, you was free to go. Or if you decided to stay, you stayed. Olivia Williams Cook: That's it. Kate Ellis: People would just sometimes never come out again? Olivia Williams Cook: Come out again— Albert Joseph Cook: Maybe sometimes you might put too much in that. Olivia Williams Cook: Too much in it. Kill them, you see? Kate Ellis: Wow. Albert Joseph Cook: That's just like, you were talking about, the red light district. Olivia Williams Cook: Yeah. Call it the red light district. We had one of them here. Kate Ellis: Yeah, the red light district. Olivia Williams Cook: [indistinct 00:38:24] You see Krauss on Canal Street? Kate Ellis: Uh-huh. Krauss? Olivia Williams Cook: Krauss Company. Well, right behind that, two, three blocks behind that, I say who— Albert Joseph Cook: All that back there. Olivia Williams Cook: All back that way, that was the red district, red light district. Kate Ellis: Storyville? Olivia Williams Cook: Well, that's a part of Storyville, I guess. But who was that, what's that over there? That big house back there? Albert Joseph Cook: Lulu. Olivia Williams Cook: Just like this is Krauss up here. Albert Joseph Cook: Lulu White. Olivia Williams Cook: [indistinct 00:38:57] Albert Joseph Cook: Lulu White. Olivia Williams Cook: [indistinct 00:38:58]. Kate Ellis: Lulu White? Olivia Williams Cook: Lulu White. Yeah. Albert Joseph Cook: [indistinct 00:39:02] Kate Ellis: But you never played in the red light district? Olivia Williams Cook: Oh, no, no, no, no, no, no. I bought that. Kate Ellis: That was not—You could play in the clubs on Bourbon Street? Olivia Williams Cook: Yeah, yeah. Kate Ellis: [indistinct 00:39:12] at strip shows— Olivia Williams Cook: Anyplace questionable, I didn't go. Kate Ellis: But a strip show place, that wasn't considered— Olivia Williams Cook: No, no, no, no. Kate Ellis: That wasn't considered questionable? Olivia Williams Cook: What? A strip? Kate Ellis: Yeah, I mean, where would you draw the line, I guess? Olivia Williams Cook: Well, I was a musician. Kate Ellis: Yeah. Olivia Williams Cook: I walked to my instrument and played. That's all. Kate Ellis: I see. Oh, oh, oh. I didn't mean would you actually—When I said work in the red light district, didn't some musicians— Olivia Williams Cook: Oh, some of them— Kate Ellis: Did they have music there? Olivia Williams Cook: Mostly men in there. Albert Joseph Cook: They didn't hire women. Olivia Williams Cook: They wouldn't hire us. Kate Ellis: They would not hire you in those— Olivia Williams Cook: Uh-uh, no. Kate Ellis: So a strip show, yes. But a brothel, no. Olivia Williams Cook: Uh-uh. Kate Ellis: I see. Olivia Williams Cook: That's where—What's that place at? A guy, where he got his— Kate Ellis: Jelly Roll. Olivia Williams Cook: Not Jelly Roll Morton. Scott Joplin. Kate Ellis: Oh. Olivia Williams Cook: He got his dopes right there from Lulu White. Kate Ellis: He got his what from there? Olivia Williams Cook: His dopes. That's what killed him. Right there. [indistinct 00:40:31] Right there. Kate Ellis: Wow. Olivia Williams Cook: (dog whining) Shut up. Kate Ellis: Your dog? Olivia Williams Cook: Yeah. Kate Ellis: Let me ask you the last few questions on this. Olivia Williams Cook: Uh-huh. Kate Ellis: Have you received any awards or honors or held any offices? Olivia Williams Cook: Held offices? Kate Ellis: Yeah. Like, been the secretary of this or the president of that or whatever. Olivia Williams Cook: Well, I was once the secretary in old union 496, the Colored union. I was secretary of that. Kate Ellis: What did you call it? The Colored—I mean, you'd it—What was it called at that time? Olivia Williams Cook: Colored Musicians' Union. Local 496. Kate Ellis: What about, have you received any awards or honors? Olivia Williams Cook: I gave a concert in Jackson Square. I have an award in there for that. Kate Ellis: An award for a concert at Jackson Square? Olivia Williams Cook: Uh-huh. (dog whining) Kate Ellis: Listen to your puppy. Olivia Williams Cook: He wants to come up. Kate Ellis: Yeah. The church you attend [indistinct 00:42:09] Olivia Williams Cook: Oh yes, I have awards from my church. Kate Ellis: Like what kind of awards? Olivia Williams Cook: As being the organist of the church. Yeah, big award hanging up in my— Kate Ellis: Tell me the name of the church again. Olivia Williams Cook: St. Joan of Arc. I have received awards from the mayor here. Kate Ellis: For what? Olivia Williams Cook: For participating in certain things. Kate Ellis: What kinds of things? Olivia Williams Cook: Well, like you go out and play or honors— Kate Ellis: I see. Olivia Williams Cook: Or for certain things you play for, they give you honor for it. Kate Ellis: I see. So awards from mayor for various performances? Olivia Williams Cook: Yeah. Let's see, [indistinct 00:43:10] I got two or three [indistinct 00:43:10] the mayors. I think I got one from Morial. I got one from who? Who was before Morial? Albert Joseph Cook: Did you get one from Morial? Olivia Williams Cook: I think I did. [indistinct 00:43:12] And I got one from who else? Who was before Morial? Kate Ellis: [indistinct 00:43:12] Well— Olivia Williams Cook: [indistinct 00:43:12] I got. Kate Ellis: Okay. So St. Joan of Arc is your church? Olivia Williams Cook: Uh-huh. Kate Ellis: Do you belong to any other church? Oh, you were in the Methodist church? Olivia Williams Cook: Oh, when I was a kid. That was Haven's, H-A-V-E-N, capital S. Kate Ellis: Capital S? Olivia Williams Cook: Not capital—I mean, apostrophe. Kate Ellis: Oh. Olivia Williams Cook: Haven's Methodist Church. Kate Ellis: Okay. Okay, any sort of organizations that you belong to now or have belonged to? Olivia Williams Cook: I never was one of those who belonged to organizations. Kate Ellis: You weren't in organizations? Okay. But the name of the Musicians' Union now is—What's the exact name? Because you do belong to that union? Olivia Williams Cook: Yeah, I belong to that. Local—Wait. American Federation, Local— Kate Ellis: American Federation of Musicians? Olivia Williams Cook: Of Musicians. Kate Ellis: Local— Olivia Williams Cook: One—Wait now. 496-174. Kate Ellis: 496-174. Olivia Williams Cook: Yeah. Kate Ellis: Any other activities or affiliations? Hobbies or interests or anything? Olivia Williams Cook: Mm. No. I tell you this much, the times here when the music business got so slow, I used to go out and sew. Kate Ellis: Really? Olivia Williams Cook: Oh, yeah. I sew well. Made all my children sew. At that time, I was playing, I played a lot of the—At that time, the public schools used to have, what do they call that? Oh, shoot. I know it. Some of the schools hired me to play this—It'd be like a festival. Kate Ellis: Like it had fairs or something? Olivia Williams Cook: It was like a festival where I could play. [indistinct 00:46:16] music. And I played a lot of those. Kate Ellis: At music festivals? Olivia Williams Cook: I can't call— Albert Joseph Cook: [indistinct 00:46:27]. Olivia Williams Cook: I forgot what the teacher called it then. Each school used to have one. I played for many of them. What else? There is something, I guess I forgot. Albert Joseph Cook: Project. It was a project. Olivia Williams Cook: No, that wasn't a project. The project was for—one time when—