Blair Murphy: [indistinct 00:00:03]. Henrietta "Vannie" McCoy Crudup: I was born "Vannie," Henrietta McCoy. I was born September the 16th, 1918. Blair Murphy: And where were you born? Henrietta "Vannie" McCoy Crudup: I was born in Norfolk County. Blair Murphy: What was it like when you were growing up in Norfolk County? Henrietta "Vannie" McCoy Crudup: About when I was six years old, and my father raised—And it was nine of us in the home. Blair Murphy: Where were you in the order of the children? Henrietta "Vannie" McCoy Crudup: I was the baby of nine children. This—Hey, Richard? Richard: Huh? Henrietta "Vannie" McCoy Crudup: Come here. Do you know that—my birth certificate in that china closet? Richard: Mm-hmm. Henrietta "Vannie" McCoy Crudup: Well get it to me. I want to tell her something. Richard: Where at in the china cabinet? Huh? Henrietta "Vannie" McCoy Crudup: In a glass. Richard: That was Howard's. That was Howard Junior's. Henrietta "Vannie" McCoy Crudup: I don't know where you all are at now. Blair Murphy: That's okay. Take your time. That's okay. Henrietta "Vannie" McCoy Crudup: I don't know. Blair Murphy: It's okay. Henrietta "Vannie" McCoy Crudup: I'll have to get my birth certificate because everything—My name and everything. I thought it—it wasn't inside the—see, when you blind, somebody takes my things and puts them where they want them to go. Blair Murphy: What was it like in your house when you were growing up? Henrietta "Vannie" McCoy Crudup: It was a very nice upbringing. Some of the thing is because when my mother died, we had two cars. A Buick, a red car and a black car. We had two cars, and we had a horse and a buggy, and—And my father had 20 acres of land, and there was just corn. He worked my five brothers and four girls, and I was the youngest, but we all farmed and everything. Blair Murphy: What types of things did you grow? Henrietta "Vannie" McCoy Crudup: My father grew some of the biggest sweet potatoes, and rutabagas. He was a grower of rutabagas. And he had—what you call those—He grew feed for the horses. Fodder. I used to—I didn't know what fodder was. He would always say, "Get that fodder in." I didn't know what it was until I was grown. You know, that was the corn. Blair Murphy: The blades? Essie Dozier: The big blades. Henrietta "Vannie" McCoy Crudup: Huh? Essie Dozier: The big blades on the leaves— Henrietta "Vannie" McCoy Crudup: Big blades on the corn, and they would wind them up in put them in piles. Roll them up and put them in a pile. That's not—Yeah, not that, but they used to do— Richard: Back then. Henrietta "Vannie" McCoy Crudup: —that fodder out. My father would always say, "Make that fodder." Richard: What did you have to do? Blair Murphy: What did you do with that? Do you know? Henrietta "Vannie" McCoy Crudup: For the horses. Blair Murphy: For the horses. Henrietta "Vannie" McCoy Crudup: Horses and the cows to eat. Blair Murphy: Okay. Henrietta "Vannie" McCoy Crudup: Yeah. Blair Murphy: Do you remember going to school? Do you remember? Henrietta "Vannie" McCoy Crudup: Yes. I went to school. I started here on Salt Hill. And the first day I went to school, I didn't want to go, because everybody had a mother that took them to school and I didn't have a mother. And my father would walk. Would tell us to go to school, but everybody else—And then Marian Hasley, that was my friend. Marian Hasley and—Earl was too young, my brother. Anyways, everybody had a mother. Lucille Butler, all of them, had a mother, and I felt slighted. I don't know how I felt not having a mother, because everybody had a mother. Henrietta "Vannie" McCoy Crudup: Anyway, I went to school. And Mrs. Burley was our principal of the school. Do you remember him? Essie Dozier: No, I don't. Henrietta "Vannie" McCoy Crudup: Mrs. Burley was the principal of the school, and she made us welcome. And made me especially welcome, because I was reluctant to go into school. Anyways, I went and got to the seventh grade, and I said to myself, "I'm not going to let anybody know anymore than I know, in my class." And I sort of led the class, all along, until I went to high school. Henrietta "Vannie" McCoy Crudup: I finished grammar school. And that night that we had an exercise, Reverend Johnson was our principal, and he said he wanted—He taught the seventh grade, and he wanted me to speak a resertation. Well, the welcome address. I said, "I never wanted to do that, because I wouldn't have a white dress." And he went to my sister and told her that he wanted me to speak the recitation, because I spoke this statement to the other children. I said, "No. No, I'm not going to have a white dress." Henrietta "Vannie" McCoy Crudup: And you know, my sister didn't make a me a white dress, and every girl in that class that graduated in the seventh grade had a white dress. I said, "I'm not going to be in the program." And— Blair Murphy: How much older was your sister? Henrietta "Vannie" McCoy Crudup: She was 20 years older than I am. Blair Murphy: Oh, okay. Henrietta "Vannie" McCoy Crudup: And that night we had the program, I said, "I didn't want—" I would sing the resertation, because I didn't want to say it. But he said, "You're going to say it." He went to my sister and told her that he wanted me to speak, and she said, "You're going to speak it." And he told me—And you know what, I remember, I never shall forget. She put on a dress that was a beige dress! Everybody had a white dress instead of me. I didn't have a white dress. She put on me a beige dress. I believe it was her dress. Henrietta "Vannie" McCoy Crudup: But Ms. Annie Jackson, do you remember her? Essie Dozier: No, ma'am. I've heard the name, but I don't remember her. Henrietta "Vannie" McCoy Crudup: Ms. Annie Jackson, she built me up so good, "Vannie McCoy is going to speak the recitation, and she speaks so nice." She built me up to everything. And I said—Well I was proud to get up on the stage in the back and speak that recitation. I said, "We welcome you here tonight, friends, with smiles and words of cheer. This is one of the happiest times of all of our school year." And I said, "We welcome you to hear our recitation and our speakers." Henrietta "Vannie" McCoy Crudup: Yeah, I did that thing fine, but I didn't have a white dress on. And everybody praised up me, the way that I said it, but I didn't forget that I didn't have a white dress on. I got over that night, real good, but I wasn't happy that—I wasn't happy. Blair Murphy: So you went to the same school from first grade? Henrietta "Vannie" McCoy Crudup: From first grade to the seventh grade. Blair Murphy: How many teachers were there in your school? Henrietta "Vannie" McCoy Crudup: Ms. Brown, Ms. Burley was the principal, Reverend Johnson, Ms. Lancaster, Ms. Straw—Oh, lord. Blair Murphy: You don't have to remember them all. Henrietta "Vannie" McCoy Crudup: Yeah. Ms. Straw. That's all; Brown, Lancaster, Straw. For Valentine's Day, she had a son that was named Valentine. In Norfolk, he was the—Ms. Straw, she was a Valentine. He had a Penny building. You know that one? Essie Dozier: The name of the building is? Henrietta "Vannie" McCoy Crudup: Penny's building that he had. It went from Sears & Roebuck on to— Essie Dozier: Systems management building? Henrietta "Vannie" McCoy Crudup: Yes. Essie Dozier: Yes, I remember [indistinct 00:13:14]. Henrietta "Vannie" McCoy Crudup: Yes. That's one. His mother was a teacher at our school. Essie Dozier: Okay. Henrietta "Vannie" McCoy Crudup: Uh-huh. Blair Murphy: Did you have a teacher for each individual grade or did they— Henrietta "Vannie" McCoy Crudup: No, there were four teachers for different classes. Blair Murphy: Okay. Different grades? Henrietta "Vannie" McCoy Crudup: Different grades. That's right. Blair Murphy: So a teacher might have more than one grade? Henrietta "Vannie" McCoy Crudup: Yes, because— Blair Murphy: Like first and second, did you have one— Henrietta "Vannie" McCoy Crudup: —You had a first and second, and third and fourth, would be together. Blair Murphy: Mm-hmm. Henrietta "Vannie" McCoy Crudup: That's right. And some girls that I was in the class with in the class, when I finished, they weren't—They were slow learners, and I passed them. And they were older than I was. Blair Murphy: Was it a big school? Henrietta "Vannie" McCoy Crudup: Yeah. Some of them were. Well, we had four classrooms. Blair Murphy: Okay. Henrietta "Vannie" McCoy Crudup: Four classrooms. They were a double line. Blair Murphy: Uh-huh. Henrietta "Vannie" McCoy Crudup: Yeah, but we learned more than—I had 10 of my own children. I know we learned more than the children now learn. In a way. In one way. We learned differently. We were different, because all of us tried to excel, one over another. And children are not like that now. I notice that from my children. I used to have to tell them all the time, "Don't let nobody know anymore than you can learn yourself." That's how they got through it. All of my children. All of them. Oh, yes. All of them. Blair Murphy: So you went on to high school? Henrietta "Vannie" McCoy Crudup: High school. And I graduated from high school in 1936. 1936. 1937, I got married because I wanted to go to college, but I didn't have nobody to send no money. Blair Murphy: Okay. Henrietta "Vannie" McCoy Crudup: I was married. And Addie, she went. My friend, Anna Williams—I don't know whether you know her. Do you know Anna Williams? Essie Dozier: No, ma'am. I don't think so. Henrietta "Vannie" McCoy Crudup: Okay. Gilbertine Williams? Essie Dozier: Yeah, Gilbert—Sure, I know the Williams. Gilbertine and— Henrietta "Vannie" McCoy Crudup: Gilbertine. Essie Dozier: Yeah. One of is an Alexander. Henrietta "Vannie" McCoy Crudup: Yeah. Essie Dozier: Yeah, I know them. Henrietta "Vannie" McCoy Crudup: Yeah, that's right. Now he was the one that I was supposed to have gone with him, Joe Alan. Essie Dozier: Yeah, Joe Alan. Joe Alan Alexander. Henrietta "Vannie" McCoy Crudup: Yeah. And [indistinct 00:16:42]—It wasn't many girls there. It was those two, but [indistinct 00:17:00] to go at all, and I wanted to go, but I didn't. Anyways— Blair Murphy: So where did you move when you got married? Henrietta "Vannie" McCoy Crudup: I stayed right in that corner house down from this street, with my sister. And then I stayed there about three years, and then moved to 935 Hill Street, and raised all my children there. Hill Street, 935 Hill Street. Blair Murphy: Did you have work? Did you work when you h Henrietta "Vannie" McCoy Crudup: I worked. I volunteered. I worked helping people in the community get on welfare. Blair Murphy: Okay. Henrietta "Vannie" McCoy Crudup: I did that. Nobody told me to do it, but I just saw a way that I could help. I recommended people, it was so many people I recommended, to get on welfare. But I learned that that wasn't good, because we wanted everybody to work. You know? Blair Murphy: Mm-hmm. Henrietta "Vannie" McCoy Crudup: But some couldn't work. It was reluctantly, we got the help. But lots of people didn't want it, because they couldn't help us. Anyways, in 19—about '50 something, somebody came around here and asked two, three girls, to work with the welfare social service, and I volunteered. I had about—I had all of my children then. Blair Murphy: Mm-hmm. Henrietta "Vannie" McCoy Crudup: Because my last child was born 1959, and I was working—I worked for seven years with the city, helping the people. Blair Murphy: This was in the 1950s? Henrietta "Vannie" McCoy Crudup: Yes. Blair Murphy: Okay. Henrietta "Vannie" McCoy Crudup: 1950s. And I worked for somebody at Great Bridge. She had a program. It was called an extension program. Blair Murphy: Mm-hmm. Henrietta "Vannie" McCoy Crudup: I worked with her there and—for all those years. And then what— Blair Murphy: So what was this neighborhood like when you first got married? Henrietta "Vannie" McCoy Crudup: It was good. It was a good neighborhood, because we didn't have any fights and all that. No fussing and fighting, and that. All the things that I was brought up—When I was brought up, we had trouble with the Ku Klux Klansmen. Blair Murphy: Okay. So did White people live near here? Henrietta "Vannie" McCoy Crudup: Huh? Blair Murphy: What people lived in this area? Henrietta "Vannie" McCoy Crudup: Yes. Mm-hmm. And we are sandwiched between the White people. Blair Murphy: Okay. Henrietta "Vannie" McCoy Crudup: And some of them were good. Most of them were good, but—You know my brothers would go to the closest corner, where my father had some land, and every time they would go to—from Gainesville Boulevard down [indistinct 00:21:46], they had to fight. Every time. They had a fight every time they went to the farm. Blair Murphy: They had to pass by White people? Henrietta "Vannie" McCoy Crudup: That's right. They had to pass by the White people, and those boys—You know it's one man that I know—You know Mr. Midget? Midget [indistinct 00:22:23]— Essie Dozier: I've heard the family name. Henrietta "Vannie" McCoy Crudup: Huh? Essie Dozier: I've heard the family name, Midget. Henrietta "Vannie" McCoy Crudup: Now he was a bad boy. They had to fight all the time. All the boys, they would go to the closest corner, and they had to fight every time they passed that place. Blair Murphy: Why were they bothering them? (phone rings) Henrietta "Vannie" McCoy Crudup: Well, they'd say, "Where are you going?" (phone rings) [Indistinct 00:23:09] told that they were going up to the farm and they were just going. And they said that they had to fight. They beat them up. Beat the boys up. Beat all my brothers up, until—You know what stopped that? Blair Murphy: What's that? Henrietta "Vannie" McCoy Crudup: They were going to the farm. The Chapman's had a farm, and the McCoy's had a farm. And they got in a fight and Mr. Midget was with them. And if you know him, you see how his face is—they beat—He beat our boys [indistinct 00:24:16]. And the one who came from Washington, and his name was Fred Carpenter. Blair Murphy: Fred Carpenter. Henrietta "Vannie" McCoy Crudup: Do you remember him? Blair Murphy: Yes, ma'am. Henrietta "Vannie" McCoy Crudup: And they got in a fight, and I think he took—I know he took a baseball bat, that he hid in the wagon, and beat that man, Mr. Midget, up. And that stopped the fights. They didn't fight no more, when he he did that. And he went away, because they were going to get him. You know? Blair Murphy: Mm-hmm. Henrietta "Vannie" McCoy Crudup: And he went away, and stayed for years. He is a friend to all of us. He knows all of us now, Mr. Midget. He is a nice man, but that was their prerogative, to fight. But we bought gas from him and everything. He was a fine person. Sometimes you think that somebody's bad, we can blame lots of things on our youth. You know? Blair Murphy: Uh-huh. Henrietta "Vannie" McCoy Crudup: When you were young and not mindful of not doing things, and we were friends. Mr. Donnie King Gibson, he was a friend of ours, and all of them, we were together. But it was always somebody in the crowd, would want to make strife. That's been all the time. Blair Murphy: This whole Black community here is in between two separate White communities? Henrietta "Vannie" McCoy Crudup: Huh? Yes. Blair Murphy: Okay. Henrietta "Vannie" McCoy Crudup: Money Point, and Portlock, and we were in between. Blair Murphy: Was there another Black community in a different area? Henrietta "Vannie" McCoy Crudup: Mm-hmm. Well, all along Dozier's Corner, and on to Great Bridge, that's where the other people—But we were very sister-like, in churches. St. Luke, that's in Hope Grove, that was our sister church. Blair Murphy: What was your church? Henrietta "Vannie" McCoy Crudup: Mount Olive AME Church. Blair Murphy: Okay. Henrietta "Vannie" McCoy Crudup: Mount Olive. I grew up at that church, all my life. Blair Murphy: Okay. Henrietta "Vannie" McCoy Crudup: And it's still here. They are building a new church over here. Blair Murphy: What do you remember about church, when you were little? Henrietta "Vannie" McCoy Crudup: Say what? Blair Murphy: What do you remember about church? Henrietta "Vannie" McCoy Crudup: Oh, yes. Oh, well I remember we had a young people's department, and he had retreats, and he had Christian retreat. He would have six days of Bible school. He had six days of Bible school, from Monday to Saturday, and we had picnics. The most that we had, we studied the Bible. We studied the 10 Commandments. All our people in the church would try to speak to everybody, abiding by the 10 Commandments. And I would think, all of the children would say, "Thou shalt not steal. Thou shalt not bear false witness." These are the two that I thought stayed in our minds. Henrietta "Vannie" McCoy Crudup: "Bear no witness. Thou shalt not steal," those were the only ones that—All the ones that stayed in our minds, and I said, "It looks like everybody wanted to steal something." Everybody wanted to steal something. And I remember a Jim White store that we used to go in the store, and everybody would try to look at Mr. Morrison. Morrison had a store called, 'Carline,' that's the one where we brought our groceries from. Blair Murphy: Was that a Black man? Henrietta "Vannie" McCoy Crudup: He's a White man. Blair Murphy: A White man. Henrietta "Vannie" McCoy Crudup: A White man, Louis Morrison. And he would get a kick out of the boys stealing. You know? Blair Murphy: Mm-hmm. Henrietta "Vannie" McCoy Crudup: Take a handful of nuts, so Mr. Morrison—I'm going to tell you about this, and you're going to laugh. When we first knew about Brazil nuts, we didn't know they were Brazil nuts, and Mr. Morrison, he told all of us children that they were burnt nigger toes. You know? Blair Murphy: Okay. Henrietta "Vannie" McCoy Crudup: Brazil nuts, they're nigger toes. Now Mr. Morrison would get a store full of people, all those men—And Luther Easley was a friend of ours, and he would go in the store. And he said Mr. Morrison would say, "What you want, Luther?" He said, "Mr. Morrison, give me five cents worth of those nigger toes." And we didn't know what the men were laughing about, because we didn't know that they were Brazil nuts. Blair Murphy: Okay. Henrietta "Vannie" McCoy Crudup: And we called them "nigger toes." And every time, every day, every evening, Luther would get five cents and buy. Mr. Morrison, "What you want?" Luther, "I want five cents worth of those nigger toes." And they had a laugh for days. They laughed all day, about him saying, "nigger toes." Luther went to New York and he met a girl, and the girl's—He said, "Buy some of those nuts at Christmastime." He said, "We call them 'nigger toes.'" She said, "No, they're Brazil nuts." He said, "I didn't know that." Blair Murphy: That's what my grandfather called them too. Henrietta "Vannie" McCoy Crudup: What? Did he? Blair Murphy: Yes, he did. Henrietta "Vannie" McCoy Crudup: No. Essie Dozier: Was he from the South? Blair Murphy: Yeah, he's from North Carolina. Henrietta "Vannie" McCoy Crudup: Yes. That's what— Essie Dozier: First thing I heard too. Henrietta "Vannie" McCoy Crudup: —That's what you heard too? Essie Dozier: I heard it too. That's what—Yeah. Henrietta "Vannie" McCoy Crudup: Yes. Essie Dozier: I knew that before I knew to call them Brazil nuts. Henrietta "Vannie" McCoy Crudup: Mm-hmm. Nigger toes. Yes, I had—And we thought we were saying something great. Blair Murphy: Seriously? Henrietta "Vannie" McCoy Crudup: I laughed all the time. And he said, "I didn't know what they were until I went to New York," and the girl in New York told him that they were Brazil nuts. And I have— Speaker 1: I'll see y'all later. See you, Mom. Essie Dozier: Bye. Henrietta "Vannie" McCoy Crudup: —I have kept it in my mind, all the time, "Brazil nuts." Essie Dozier: Yes. Henrietta "Vannie" McCoy Crudup: Yeah. But they are good. I love them. (laughs) Yes. Blair Murphy: [indistinct 00:34:35]. Henrietta "Vannie" McCoy Crudup: You? You heard it? Essie Dozier: Yes. Henrietta "Vannie" McCoy Crudup: I didn't—I haven't—You are the first one that I heard, other than what I know from South here—Yes. Yes, you are the first one that I heard say that they heard somebody, and they call them "nigger—" Blair Murphy: Nigger—That's what my grandfather always called them. Henrietta "Vannie" McCoy Crudup: Yeah. Blair Murphy: [indistinct 00:34:59]. Henrietta "Vannie" McCoy Crudup: He did? Blair Murphy: Yep. Henrietta "Vannie" McCoy Crudup: Now you said your grandfather? Blair Murphy: Mm-hmm. Henrietta "Vannie" McCoy Crudup: What? Why did he do that? Blair Murphy: I don't know. I guess that's what he heard them called, so that's what he called them. It must have been kind of spread out. Henrietta "Vannie" McCoy Crudup: Yeah. Oh Father, I haven't heard nobody said that but you. Yes. Yes. Blair Murphy: Do you know how your father came to own his land? Henrietta "Vannie" McCoy Crudup: My grandmother was a Cherokee Indian. She used to cook for the people in Dozier's Corner, that had the slaves. Blair Murphy: Mm-hmm. Henrietta "Vannie" McCoy Crudup: She was the cook. My mother was a—My grandmother was a Cherokee Indian, and she was light skinned. Blair Murphy: Uh-huh. Henrietta "Vannie" McCoy Crudup: She had long hair, Indian hair. Long. I remember her hair was right down to her hips. Blair Murphy: Do you remember meeting her? Henrietta "Vannie" McCoy Crudup: Yes. Blair Murphy: [indistinct 00:36:22]. Henrietta "Vannie" McCoy Crudup: She died after my mother died. Blair Murphy: Okay. Henrietta "Vannie" McCoy Crudup: Yes. She— Blair Murphy: So she was your mother's mom or your father's? Henrietta "Vannie" McCoy Crudup: No, my father's mother. Blair Murphy: Okay. Henrietta "Vannie" McCoy Crudup: And she accumulated that land. I don't know how she got it, but I saw the deed that I had here, that my father—She willed that land to my father. Blair Murphy: Okay. Henrietta "Vannie" McCoy Crudup: She had some more sons, but my father was Irene, the one she wanted to give the land. And he had 20 acres of land in Doziers's Corner. Blair Murphy: Uh-huh. Henrietta "Vannie" McCoy Crudup: And out of five of them, the land was in my mother's name. Blair Murphy: Okay. Henrietta "Vannie" McCoy Crudup: And 15 in his name. And I think my grandmother got that land from the White folks. They gave her that land or she bought it from them. I don't know how she got it, but she got 20 acres of land. I don't know how she got it. Anyways, she was the cook for the slaves. Blair Murphy: What are— Henrietta "Vannie" McCoy Crudup: Huh? Blair Murphy: —Were the slave owners around her? Henrietta "Vannie" McCoy Crudup: Yeah. That's right. Blair Murphy: And she cooked for several different— Henrietta "Vannie" McCoy Crudup: Yeah. Blair Murphy: Okay. Henrietta "Vannie" McCoy Crudup: All of them. She was the cook. Blair Murphy: Okay. Henrietta "Vannie" McCoy Crudup: And she had a sister. She had some sisters that lived in Oak Grove. Blair Murphy: Okay. Henrietta "Vannie" McCoy Crudup: And that's—I don't know how she got the land, but I think that they willed her some land. You know? Blair Murphy: Mm-hmm. Henrietta "Vannie" McCoy Crudup: I don't know. I don't know about that and I never asked my father about that. You know? Blair Murphy: Yeah. Henrietta "Vannie" McCoy Crudup: But I know she had that land, and my father's brother signed all that land to him. Blair Murphy: Okay. Henrietta "Vannie" McCoy Crudup: They signed that land to my father, because my grandmother wanted him to have it. Henrietta "Vannie" McCoy Crudup: It's funny. I don't know. I'm not going to say that. I don't—I forgot what we were talking about. Blair Murphy: Do you remember how—what your wedding was like? Because I heard that women didn't necessarily wear a white dress when they got married. It was probably a real nice dress, but now, they're buying a white dress. Henrietta "Vannie" McCoy Crudup: That's right. When I got married, I had on a dress laced up and it was— Essie Dozier: Do you remember what color it was? Blair Murphy: [indistinct 00:40:16]. Henrietta "Vannie" McCoy Crudup: It was a steel gray. Blair Murphy: Okay. Henrietta "Vannie" McCoy Crudup: A steel gray dress, and the top was laced like—And the bottom was crepe. I don't think nobody I saw got married in a white dress. Everybody that got married, they got married in an ordinary dress. Essie Dozier: Did they get married in the church? Blair Murphy: Or did they get married in a home? Henrietta "Vannie" McCoy Crudup: I, in a home. I got married in our living room. Essie Dozier: Okay. Henrietta "Vannie" McCoy Crudup: Reverend Moore married us, in 1937. Blair Murphy: Mm-hmm. Essie Dozier: [indistinct 00:41:16]. Henrietta "Vannie" McCoy Crudup: Yes. I remember that. It was [indistinct 00:41:21]. I remember that I got married [indistinct 00:41:27]. Henrietta "Vannie" McCoy Crudup: I didn't know what I was doing when I got married. I didn't know what I was doing. (Dozier laughs) But all the girls was getting pregnant. I said, "I'm not going to get pregnant, and I mean I'm not going to get pregnant." But I got pregnant. Henrietta "Vannie" McCoy Crudup: I stayed around, I stayed around. I finished high school. I wanted to go college and I couldn't. Do you know I couldn't save up to $100 to go to school? That's all it cost, $100 a year, to go to school. And I couldn't save that to save my life. But you know why? You know why I couldn't save it? Blair Murphy: Why? Henrietta "Vannie" McCoy Crudup: I was working for 50 cents a day. Blair Murphy: Where were you working? Henrietta "Vannie" McCoy Crudup: Down in Fort Lauderdale, tending to babies. White babies. Those children, I loved them. I don't know how I came to love the White children so good. You know? Blair Murphy: Mm-hmm. Henrietta "Vannie" McCoy Crudup: All of us. All of us that worked for them—I used to go to the beach with the people that I worked for, Mrs. Simpson. It's lots of people that I worked—[indistinct 00:43:11] lots of people that I worked for, and kept their children. And you know, I used to go to the beach with them. Blair Murphy: Uh-huh. Henrietta "Vannie" McCoy Crudup: I fixed the food for the children. I did just like the wife ought to have been doing, and I did it. Blair Murphy: Okay. Henrietta "Vannie" McCoy Crudup: Taking care of the children, and Mr. Simpson and his wife, they were on the beach somewhere and I had the children. I loved that. I liked that, and I thought I was somebody. But you know what happened to me? Blair Murphy: What's that? Henrietta "Vannie" McCoy Crudup: I had all those children. I can name them; Hope, Simpson, Bucky, and Rita. All of them, I had on the beach. One ran off on me. I could have died myself, because I couldn't swim. And he ran in the river, and I went to grab him. I told him, many times, that I could have died in that—in Virginia Beach. Where the water was the same color as the sky. Henrietta "Vannie" McCoy Crudup: We went to Virginia Beach, and that boy run off, I wouldn't let him drown because I was going to get in—And I was so scared I had lost that child, I didn't know what to do. I was afraid, I didn't want to die. Henrietta "Vannie" McCoy Crudup: I just—A little before I finished high school that summer. I thought that boy had drowned, I thought they were going to lynch me. I thought that. I knew that I had to take care of their children. But they were good to me. Mrs. Simpson was good. She was good to me. We had a good time. Henrietta "Vannie" McCoy Crudup: Her husband used to bring baskets of tomatoes, and he'd say, "Vannie, you can have something from my [indistinct 00:45:56]." They were good to me. They were very good to me. But then I was good to them, because I didn't—I cleaned up. I was the finest cleaner. Henrietta "Vannie" McCoy Crudup: I don't know what my house looks like now, because I haven't seen in years. Blair Murphy: It's clean. Henrietta "Vannie" McCoy Crudup: I'm blind. Blair Murphy: Very clean. Henrietta "Vannie" McCoy Crudup: But I was industrious. I liked to be in a clean house. Now, I don't worry about too many things that's extraordinary, but I like it. I like a—