Kate Ellis: Are there three, or were there three Rousseve brothers? Mildred Rousseve: There were five. Kate Ellis: Oh, okay. And yours was— Mildred Rousseve: Mine was Charles, and the second one was Ferdinand Rousseve, and the third one was Numa Rousseve. Kate Ellis: Which is Mrs. Evelyn Rousseve's— Mildred Rousseve: Brother-in-law. Kate Ellis: — brother-in-law. Mildred Rousseve: Yeah. Kate Ellis: Okay. Mildred Rousseve: He's my brother-in-law too. Kate Ellis: Okay. And so who was she married to? Mildred Rousseve: She was married to Numa Rousseve. Kate Ellis: Okay. Right. Mildred Rousseve: And then there was— Rene was last. Who else did I say? Kate Ellis: There were, you said Charles, Ferdinand, Numa, Rene. Mildred Rousseve: Yeah. Kate Ellis: Was there a fifth one? You said there was a fifth. Mildred Rousseve: Yes, there were five. Charles— Kate Ellis: Was there a Norman Rousseve? Mildred Rousseve: No. Kate Ellis: Okay. A son of a Rousseve that was named Norman? Mildred Rousseve: Not that I know of. Kate Ellis: Okay. Okay. Mildred Rousseve: Do we need to know all their names? I can get them again for you. Kate Ellis: No. Oh, no, that's fine. Mildred Rousseve: I have them, 'cause I was just sending a picture of them to— Kate Ellis: Oh, really? Mildred Rousseve: — to a daughter of mine in California. Kate Ellis: Oh. Well, I would love to, maybe later on, look at some of your old photos. I bet you have a lot of old photographs. Or I'm just looking at what you have here. Mildred Rousseve: Oh, this? Kate Ellis: Who is in this picture? Mildred Rousseve: Those are my children. They were absent from home for the first time. They had married. See? Kate Ellis: Oh. Mildred Rousseve: This one is a twin, and this one is a twin. They're not identical twins. I'll show you their pictures, but they're not identical. And they had each married. No, not this one, he hadn't married yet. And they came home for Christmas. Kate Ellis: When was this? Mildred Rousseve: 1955. Christmas morning at 1317 Columbus Street. We lived in another house at the time, and that's where it was. And this was my son, and this is his brother. Twins. They're twins. You'll see them together. Kate Ellis: Okay. Mildred Rousseve: And this is our daughter, Yolanda. She was a baby. Kate Ellis: Beautiful. Mildred Rousseve: This is Leonie, Mr. Rousseve's sister. And she was a school teacher, she was dealing. This is Genevieve, Roland is married to Genevieve and there's the baby. Kate Ellis: There's their baby. Mildred Rousseve: Yeah. Kate Ellis: So this is your grandchild? Mildred Rousseve: Yes. Yes. Right here, Eddie. And now I encourage him to go back to school and get his PhD. Kate Ellis: Wow. Mildred Rousseve: And he's going to get it in August. And he's going to work somewhere, it's out of Chicago. Kate Ellis: Wow. Mildred Rousseve: And he's crazy about it, but he wanted to stay here in the South and work at Southern University. But they called him for an interview after he had signed up to go up in— Kate Ellis: To Chicago. Mildred Rousseve: — Chicago. Kate Ellis: Oh. You mean Southern University called him— Mildred Rousseve: Yes. Kate Ellis: — after he'd taken a job in Chicago? Mildred Rousseve: Yes, that's right. Kate Ellis: I see. Mildred Rousseve: Yes. And this is Yolan, my daughter, and this is her husband. He has his PhD too. Kate Ellis: Wow. Mildred Rousseve: But he's a in pharmacy. Kate Ellis: Oh. Mildred Rousseve: He taught up in— Kate Ellis: And then, is that you? Who's that? Mildred Rousseve: Yes. Let's see. Kate Ellis: The person handing the gift? Mildred Rousseve: Yes. Kate Ellis: Okay. Mildred Rousseve: I'm handing that gift to Ronald, one of their sons. Kate Ellis: Right. Oh, lovely. Mildred Rousseve: We used to exchange gifts on Christmas morning. Kate Ellis: Looks like a nice group. Mildred Rousseve: Oh, they were lovely. Kate Ellis: That must have been a nice Christmas. Mildred Rousseve: It was a lovely Christmas. She was teaching, Yolan was teaching there at the time. She went to be with her husband and she got a job. And when Christmastime came, they didn't want to let her go. And she said, "Mr. I love my job and I love all the people here, they've been lovely to me. But I have to go home for Christmas. Nobody knows the Christmases we have and I want to go home. And I'll be back, just let me go for Christmas." And the superintendent gave her permission to go. Kate Ellis: Now, where was she when she was asking for permission? Mildred Rousseve: She was in— Where is this school? I can't think of it. I could get it from my sister-in-law. Kate Ellis: What state was she— She wasn't in— Mildred Rousseve: She was in Michigan, near Michigan. Kate Ellis: Oh, okay. All right. Okay. Well, let me back up for a minute. I just have to announce on the tape that this is Kate Ellis interviewing Mrs. Mildred Rousseve on Wednesday, June 22nd, 1994. Mildred Rousseve: That's right. Kate Ellis: That's right. Okay. Mildred Rousseve: Yes. Kate Ellis: So you grew up in New Orleans? Mildred Rousseve: Yes, I did. Kate Ellis: You were born in New Orleans? Mildred Rousseve: Yes. Kate Ellis: What was your family like? Who did you grow up with? And— Mildred Rousseve: I grew up with— I don't remember my father. I was born after my father died. I didn't ever know him. But they never told me anything. I knew about him, but I didn't know about grandparents. They never told me anything about my— Kate Ellis: About your grandparents. Mildred Rousseve: Uh-uh. Kate Ellis: Huh? Mildred Rousseve: Never. Now my mother was my color, but my grandmother that I knew, was Black. And they came from out in Houma, Louisiana. Kate Ellis: Houma. Mildred Rousseve: So I have an idea that my grandfather was White. They never told me that, but I believed it because my mother was very pretty. And so— Kate Ellis: And she was— Mildred Rousseve: She was called Laura Donis. That's what they called her. What looked like the rest of my grandmother's children were Black. And she came to New Orleans, I don't know when, but I can remember being with my mother, my grandmother, and an old lady who was a friend of my grandmother's. And she was a Black lady. And they reared me, they reared my brother Harold, who was also very fair. They called him sheep, S-H-E-E-P. Kate Ellis: Did they really? Mildred Rousseve: For short. Kate Ellis: You mean, because he was light skinned? Mildred Rousseve: I guess. And his hair was blonde. Kate Ellis: Oh, so they thought he looked like a sheep. Mildred Rousseve: Yeah. And I guess it was nappy. Kate Ellis: But nappy blonde hair and light skin. Mildred Rousseve: Yes. Kate Ellis: Was it just the two of you by your mother? Mildred Rousseve: By my mother at that time. But my mother remarried. Kate Ellis: And so you had other brothers and sisters. Mildred Rousseve: And their names were Granderson and they were different. Kate Ellis: Their last name was Granderson. Mildred Rousseve: Granderson. Kate Ellis: What was your last name? What was your— Mildred Rousseve: Robichaux. Kate Ellis: Robichaux. Okay. Mildred Rousseve: R-O-B-I-C— Kate Ellis: Which is a French name. Mildred Rousseve: — It is. Kate Ellis: I see. Mildred Rousseve: That makes me believe that, that's where my roots are in Houma— Kate Ellis: Right. Mildred Rousseve: — and French. Kate Ellis: So you're saying that your grandmother was Black? Mildred Rousseve: Yes. Kate Ellis: You think that your grandfather was White. Mildred Rousseve: Was White. Kate Ellis: Although you never knew about him. Mildred Rousseve: Never. Nobody told me anything about him. Kate Ellis: Nobody ever said anything. Did you ever ask? Mildred Rousseve: I did. Kate Ellis: And they'd sort of— Mildred Rousseve: They just sort of ignored it. Kate Ellis: As only adults can do. Mildred Rousseve: Yes. Yes. Kate Ellis: But your mother was light-skinned and that's what made you think— Mildred Rousseve: But now my husband, his grandfather was from France. Kate Ellis: Oh, really? Mildred Rousseve: Yes. Charles's grandfather. Kate Ellis: And he, Mr. Rousseve senior. Mildred Rousseve: Yes. Kate Ellis: So he was— Mildred Rousseve: From France. Kate Ellis: And where was his mother from? Mildred Rousseve: Right here. She was pretty too. She was a pretty woman. Look at that picture over there behind that lamp. Kate Ellis: Okay. Mildred Rousseve: Let me see if I can get it. Kate Ellis: If you can stay there, 'cause I've got you on the microphone. Oh, this is her? Mildred Rousseve: Yeah. Kate Ellis: Can I bring it over here? Mildred Rousseve: Certainly. That's Mr. Rousseve's mother. She spoke French. My husband spoke French until he was seven years old. Kate Ellis: Oh, really? That his father taught him? That they taught him. Mildred Rousseve: Yeah, they taught him. They spoke only French in the family. Kate Ellis: So did he call himself— He must have called himself Creole. Mildred Rousseve: Creole, he called himself. Kate Ellis: Did you call yourself Creole? Mildred Rousseve: No, I didn't. Uh-uh. Kate Ellis: What did you call yourself in your family? Or what did your— Mildred Rousseve: I was just a mulatto. Kate Ellis: Okay. Mildred Rousseve: That's what I call myself. Kate Ellis: Right. She was beautiful. Mildred Rousseve: She was a pretty lady though. Kate Ellis: Yes. Mildred Rousseve: And a lovely personality. And she'd laugh and talk. She'd just bubble and cheeks would get so red. She was just a lovely lady. Kate Ellis: That's nice. So I want to get your family. What was the question I just had in my mind about— Oh, what did you know about your father? I mean, you knew your mother was light-skinned, you knew something about her background. Mildred Rousseve: Yes. Kate Ellis: What did you know about your father's background? Mildred Rousseve: Is this on now? Kate Ellis: Yes. Mildred Rousseve: Yes. Kate Ellis: It's on. Mildred Rousseve: I knew that he was light-skinned too. But the only thing I knew was that he had a job working as a— I don't know what, on the riverfront, I think. But I had his picture, but I gave it to my children. Kate Ellis: Oh, you did? Mildred Rousseve: And I had my mother's picture, but I don't know if I have it now. I gave it too, to them. I didn't know all of this was coming up. Kate Ellis: Oh, well, that's— This is not a test. Mildred Rousseve: But I knew this— Kate Ellis: You don't have to— Mildred Rousseve: — I knew that they lived on Liberty Street and that my father— Liberty Street. My father died in May of the year I was born, and I was born 1905. Kate Ellis: And he died that year. Mildred Rousseve: It was how many months? Kate Ellis: He must have been young when he died. Mildred Rousseve: I was. Kate Ellis: I mean— Mildred Rousseve: But I wasn't born. Kate Ellis: No, he must have been young when he died. Mildred Rousseve: He was. Kate Ellis: Wow. Mildred Rousseve: He was. Kate Ellis: How did he die? Mildred Rousseve: Of a stomach ailment. Kate Ellis: Oh, dear. Mildred Rousseve: And at that time, it must have been cancer if it was a stomach ailment. That's what I told them. I don't know what else it could have been, but that's what he died of. So he left two children, my brother Harold, and I were the only two from him. Kate Ellis: So how did your mother get along without him? How did she raise you? Mildred Rousseve: My grandmother lived with my mother and she was working. And she told my mother, "Laura, don't go out and get a job. You stay here." She said, "You are very pretty and if you go and get a job, somebody's going to take advantage of you." So that's what made me believe that someone had taken advantage of my grandmother. Years ago, when pretty women were working in the households of Whites, some of the men did fall in love with them and had children for them. So I believe that's what happened to my grandmother. Nobody ever told me, never said anything about it. I knew my mother was pretty, she had beautiful hair. When I was a little girl, I had long hair. Kate Ellis: You have beautiful hair now. Mildred Rousseve: Yeah, that's what they tell me. Kate Ellis: Well you do. Yeah. Mildred Rousseve: Yes. Well, and I just paid attention to the things they said and what they didn't say. They didn't tell me and I didn't push it any further. So my grandmother said that she would help to take care of her. And so her friend, we call her friend, Aunt Tom. And she was working, she used to wash for very wealthy people, linen blouses and beautiful stuff, things that you had to do by hand and fluff by a machine. The lace, I forget what they call it. Kate Ellis: I don't know. Mildred Rousseve: Yes. But there was a certain call. And so the two of them took care of us. My mother and the two of us, the two children. Kate Ellis: Two of them being your grandmother— Mildred Rousseve: And then her friend. Kate Ellis: — and her friend. And so you all lived in the same house together? Mildred Rousseve: Yeah. Three rooms and a kitchen. Yeah. Kate Ellis: What street did you live on? Mildred Rousseve: Delachaise Street. Up on Uptown. Kate Ellis: Uptown. Mildred Rousseve: Often I've gone there. I've just gone by there in a car and looked at the house. 2116 Delachaise, because I knew I was reared there and I wanted to go there. We had box steps. We didn't have any porch or anything. Kate Ellis: What was your neighborhood like where you grew up? Mildred Rousseve: All Black. Kate Ellis: Really? Mildred Rousseve: Yes, in my neighborhood. Yes. Kate Ellis: Were you among the more, so it wasn't— Now, when you say all Black, are you distinguishing that from Creole? You know what I mean? Mildred Rousseve: Yes. I guess I was. Kate Ellis: I mean, I ask it only because some people I talk to will say, "Well, I lived in a neighborhood where there were a lot of Creoles." And so when you say that, I guess what I would— Were you one of the only Creole families— Mildred Rousseve: Well, I lived in— Kate Ellis: — in the neighborhood? Mildred Rousseve: — I lived in a neighborhood now or later, as I grew up, on Columbus Street, I lived in a neighborhood there with Creoles, but I was grown then. Kate Ellis: Oh, okay. Was that with Mr. Rousseve? Mildred Rousseve: Yes. Kate Ellis: And that's where that picture was taken? Mildred Rousseve: Yes. Kate Ellis: The Christmas picture? Mildred Rousseve: Yes. Kate Ellis: Okay. Mildred Rousseve: Yes, on Columbus Street. Kate Ellis: Okay. But when you were growing up, it was on Dela— Mildred Rousseve: It was on Delachaise. Kate Ellis: How do you spell that? Mildred Rousseve: D-E-L-A-C-H-A-I-S-E. Kate Ellis: Oh, okay. Mildred Rousseve: You going to remember that? Kate Ellis: Now I will. Oh, I just wrote it down. Mildred Rousseve: Oh, yeah. Kate Ellis: Yeah. Mildred Rousseve: Yeah. Delachaise. Kate Ellis: It's actually, it's a beautiful name. Mildred Rousseve: Yeah, Delachaise. Kate Ellis: Yeah. So you lived in that neighborhood, it was— Mildred Rousseve: And they were Colored, Colored people, some Black and some fair. The Smiths lived at the corner and they were fair. I remember two or three of the sons became mail carriers. Their mother looked something like my mother-in-law, had beautiful black hair, and she lived on the corner. Kate Ellis: Were there any White people living in your neighborhood? Mildred Rousseve: Not at the time. Kate Ellis: I ask because as, I'm sure— Mildred Rousseve: That's all right, honey. Ask it anyway. Kate Ellis: Oh, okay. Mildred Rousseve: I'm not thinking anything about it. Kate Ellis: No. And I wasn't expecting you, just one thing I hear so much down here is people always say, "You know, there were a lot of integrated neighborhoods in New Orleans." And there was segregation and there was Jim Crow. Mildred Rousseve: Right. Kate Ellis: But the neighborhoods were integrated. Mildred Rousseve: I don't know about the neighborhood. Not all the neighborhoods were integrated. Kate Ellis: And it sounds like yours was not. Mildred Rousseve: No, it wasn't. It wasn't integrated. They hadn't started this integration business then. They were all Negroes, most dark people and some fair like I was, 'cause I can remember, and my hair was very long, and I remember a little girl used to pull my hair. And one time she hit me. And I remember my mother said, "Mildred don't hit anybody when they call your name. Just go on as though you don't see them or haven't heard them." She said, "That's all right. Because she doesn't have the hair that you have and that's why she's telling you that, that she thinks she's something because she has long hair." But it wasn't that at all. I was never prejudiced toward anybody. Not ever. Kate Ellis: I believe that. Mildred Rousseve: Yes. Kate Ellis: The person who pulled your hair, she was— Mildred Rousseve: Dark. Kate Ellis: Oh, I see. Mildred Rousseve: Yes. Kate Ellis: And she resented you. Mildred Rousseve: Yes. Kate Ellis: Your hair and— Mildred Rousseve: Yes, and color. Yes. But the people in the neighborhood grocery store, they were White. They ran a grocery and they were very nice to us. Kate Ellis: But they didn't live in that area? Mildred Rousseve: No, they didn't live in that area. Kate Ellis: Is there somebody coming in? Mildred Rousseve: Nanie? They can't get in, but she has a hearing aid. Kate Ellis: Okay. Mildred Rousseve: And maybe it made a sound. Kate Ellis: Do you want me to— Do you need— So where did you go to school? Mildred Rousseve: I went to school at McDonogh number six school, a public school out on Napoleon Avenue. It was segregated and we had Colored teachers, Black teachers. But lovely teachers, good teachers. And they taught us everything. And right up there on the Napoleon Avenue, right near a public library. But at that time, we couldn't even go in the library. Kate Ellis: They wouldn't let any— Mildred Rousseve: Blacks. No. Kate Ellis: — any Blacks in the library. So was there a way that— Mildred Rousseve: The public school was just for Blacks up there at that time? Kate Ellis: Oh, the public, you mean the public— Mildred Rousseve: Yeah. Kate Ellis: — the public— Mildred Rousseve: School that I attended, McDonogh number six. Kate Ellis: So what did the teachers teach you when you were there, when you were in school? And were they able to provide you with books that you couldn't get in the library? Mildred Rousseve: No, we didn't have to, we had our school books, that's about it. And these were very good teachers. So they were in the public school system. So they were smart. Kate Ellis: Yeah. Mildred Rousseve: They knew. They taught us well. Because I went to the grade school at number six school. And when I finished eighth grade, I went to McDonogh 35 High School. And that school was provided by John McDonogh, who left schools for White and Black in the city. And I had very good high school teachers. And if your grades were good, when you graduated from high school, you would be recommended and invited to go to the teacher's normal school. That's where they taught the young ladies to be teachers. Mildred Rousseve: And so all along, I had good teachers, all Negro teachers, but they had been educated, some at Southern, some at Alcorn and somewheres in the South, but they knew their business. They were very good. And when I graduated from McDonogh 35 High School, my grades were higher, I finished with honors and I was invited to go to the teacher's normal school. And I had to go to the teacher's normal school two years, and I became a teacher. Kate Ellis: Oh. Now what year was that, that you became a teacher? Mildred Rousseve: Oh Lord, I can't remember now. I'll have to go back and see. Kate Ellis: You were born in 1905. Were you about— Something that can even help you figure it out. So you were 10 years old in 1915? Mildred Rousseve: I was about 16. Kate Ellis: When you finished high school or when you finished the normal school? Mildred Rousseve: When I finished high school. Kate Ellis: Okay. And so about 18 when you became a teacher? Mildred Rousseve: Older than that nearly, because I went to the normal school and I became a teacher. 25, I think. At 25. Kate Ellis: Okay. Mildred Rousseve: Because I married Mr. Rousseve in 1931. Kate Ellis: Oh. So you taught. How long did you teach for? Mildred Rousseve: At the time that I taught, you could not be a teacher and marry. Kate Ellis: Oh. Mildred Rousseve: So when I met Mr. Rousseve, he asked me to marry him because he needed a wife. He had two children from his first wife and she had died. And in the process now of sending the children their pictures that I've had all these years. I can show them to you. Kate Ellis: I would love to see them. Mildred Rousseve: And I had to give up my job as a teacher. Kate Ellis: And had you been teaching in the elementary school? Mildred Rousseve: Yes. I was teaching second and third grade in elementary school, but I had to give it up when I became a teacher. Kate Ellis: When you married him? Mildred Rousseve: When I married him. And so I stayed at home quite a long time. I taught his children at home and they went to a private Catholic school. Kate Ellis: What school was that? Mildred Rousseve: St. Louis School. That went with the church, Holy Redeemer Church. And that was St. Louis School. And that's where they went? Kate Ellis: St. Louis School. Mildred Rousseve: And when my children came along, they were older, Charles and Theresa. They had gone to Xavier Prep at the time. Kate Ellis: This is Mr. Rousseve's first two children? Mildred Rousseve: Yes. And— Where was I now? Kate Ellis: You were saying that then your children came along after they— Mildred Rousseve: Yes. Kate Ellis: — those two. Mildred Rousseve: Yes. Kate Ellis: And where did they— Mildred Rousseve: They went to Craig School. Kate Ellis: Okay. Mildred Rousseve: And Valena C. Jones Public Schools. They went to those two schools. And as they went up in school from Craig, they went to the prep where Charles and Theresa first went. Kate Ellis: Xavier Prep. Mildred Rousseve: And went where their father went. He finished high school there in 1925 or 19 something. Kate Ellis: So were you and Mr. Rousseve about the same age when you met? Or was he a bit older than you? Mildred Rousseve: He was a bit, three years older. Kate Ellis: Okay. Mildred Rousseve: For instance, he died at 91. Kate Ellis: And you're— Mildred Rousseve: I'm 88. Kate Ellis: — 88 now. Mildred Rousseve: He died last December. This past December. Kate Ellis: Yeah. Mildred Rousseve: At 91 years old. That's his picture up there, getting his PhD. Xavier awarded him that picture. Kate Ellis: This one here? Mildred Rousseve: See the one in the middle? Kate Ellis: Yes, I do. Mildred Rousseve: You see the other man shaking hands with him? That's the president of Xavier. That's Norman Francis. Kate Ellis: Okay. Mildred Rousseve: And they awarded Mr. Rousseve an honorary doctorate. Kate Ellis: Oh, that's lovely. Mildred Rousseve: But he finished. He finished, I think it, in 19 what? I forgot. Kate Ellis: What, you mean from Xavier? Mildred Rousseve: Xavier Prep. Kate Ellis: Oh, okay. How did you and he meet? Mildred Rousseve: We met. I didn't know him, but he was teaching at 35 and I didn't even know him while I was attending. Kate Ellis: While you were attending there— Mildred Rousseve: Yes. Kate Ellis: — he was teaching there. Mildred Rousseve: But I didn't know him. But I had a friend, Mary Jones, who was getting married, and she wanted me to be in her wedding. So I was in her wedding. Take it off, honey. That's all right, it's hot in here. Leonie, is the air condition on? Put it on. You are warm? Kate Ellis: I'm fine, now that I took my— Mildred Rousseve: All right. And I was in the wedding. And another young man, a teacher at 35, had asked to take me home from the reception and I had accepted. But the night of the wedding, Mrs. Jones, who was the mother of the bride, told me her father was a bishop. So it was a nice wedding. They had means. And the mother told me, "No, Mr. Jackson is not going to take you home tonight, Mildred. I made arrangements, Mr. Rousseve is going to take you home." And later I found out why she did it. Because she had too, had married a man who had two children. Kate Ellis: Oh. Mildred Rousseve: And she wanted to get me married like that. That's why she did it. But it was all right, I'm glad she did, because he was a wonderful husband, a wonderful father, a wonderful man, a wonderful educator and everything. So I was glad it happened like that, but I wasn't glad at the time because I didn't know. Kate Ellis: You didn't know him. Mildred Rousseve: I didn't know him. Kate Ellis: How was he to take you home? Did he have a car then or what happened? Mildred Rousseve: He did have a car at that time. Kate Ellis: Wow. Because that was— Mildred Rousseve: Yes. He had a car. Kate Ellis: — that was sort of in the— 'Cause you said you— Go ahead. Mildred Rousseve: Yeah. Early. Kate Ellis: Early '30s. Mildred Rousseve: But he bought a car. Kate Ellis: Okay. Mildred Rousseve: Because he was already teaching a while, you see? Kate Ellis: Oh, so he was able to take care of himself. Mildred Rousseve: Yeah. Kate Ellis: Wow. Mildred Rousseve: So we met that night. He took me home. I lived up on Baronne Street at the time, and I was so excited. Mrs. Jones, the mother of the bride, had prepared for all of the girls in the wedding, a nice box of sandwiches and hors d'oeuvres, nice— Kate Ellis: To take home with you? Mildred Rousseve: — To take home with us. Yes. From the reception. And I was so excited getting out the car and dropped it all right there at his feet. I said, "Oh, Mr. Rousseve, I'm so sorry. I didn't mean to drop that." He said, "I know you didn't." And from that time on, we became friends and we married a year and a half later. He wanted to marry right away. Kate Ellis: Did he? Mildred Rousseve: Because he had those two children you see, that he knew his mother couldn't take care of them. And I loved children. And so he wanted to marry right away, but I told him, "No. I'd rather wait until I had taught nearly three years so I could be [indistinct 00:26:56] in the public school system." In case I needed to go back and work, I could get back. Kate Ellis: And that took three years— Mildred Rousseve: Yes. Kate Ellis: — to get? Mildred Rousseve: And that's exactly what I did. Kate Ellis: So then you said that you married, and so you quit working and raised— Mildred Rousseve: Took care of the— Raised his children. Took care of them. Kate Ellis: And your children too then? Mildred Rousseve: Yes. So I had five altogether. Kate Ellis: So two of his— Mildred Rousseve: And three of mine. Kate Ellis: — and three of yours. Mildred Rousseve: Yes. And that's my daughter right there. Sitting up there, my daughter. Kate Ellis: The wedding picture? Mildred Rousseve: Up there on the— Yeah. Yeah. Kate Ellis: Beautiful picture. Mildred Rousseve: And I have one of Theresa I can show you, but if I can get it I'll— Kate Ellis: Yeah, I would love to. Maybe when we turn off the tape recorder, you can show me different photographs. Mildred Rousseve: Yes, I will. Kate Ellis: That'd be great. Mildred Rousseve: Now that's her picture up there, Yolan. That's the daughter I had. And over here is the daughter she had. Look over there where I'm pointing, near the window. Look. Kate Ellis: Oh, there. Okay. Mildred Rousseve: Jane. Kate Ellis: I see. Mildred Rousseve: She's a doctor in Atlanta now. Kate Ellis: Wow. So you have some— Sounds like a lot of people in your family are very well-educated. Mildred Rousseve: They are. They all were. Yes. Yes. Kate Ellis: So, and then the twins. So you had a daughter and then two male twins. Mildred Rousseve: Yes. But Leonie is a twin too, but she's from her father's side, you see? Kate Ellis: But Leonie is— Mildred Rousseve: Mr. Rousseve's sister. Kate Ellis: Sister. Okay. Right. So getting back to what your life was like when you were young and you were in school— Mildred Rousseve: It was pleasant. The school was segregated. Only Colored girls or boys went to the school. But I never suffered from any integration. I really didn't. I hadn't known anything else. And I didn't want to be with the others. I just knew that we couldn't go to the same school. That's all. Kate Ellis: Right. Do you remember, did your teachers ever talk about it? Mildred Rousseve: No, not my teachers. They never did. No. Kate Ellis: Was it something around the people that you spent time with, whether in your neighborhood or in your family— Mildred Rousseve: No, they didn't— Kate Ellis: — that people talked about or sort of made— How did people talk about the fact that there were places that you were to go to and places that White people were to go to? Mildred Rousseve: They didn't talk about it. It just happened. Kate Ellis: It's just what you knew. Mildred Rousseve: It's just what I knew. You just knew you weren't supposed to go there, so you didn't go, to have people insult you. Kate Ellis: Right. Mildred Rousseve: You see? Kate Ellis: Because if you went, you would be insulted. Mildred Rousseve: Insulted, yes. So at that time, this integration hadn't started, but Mr. Rousseve started it. I wish I could show you some of the pictures. I think I have it in the paper that he saved for Amistad. See, a lot of his things have gone now since he died. Kate Ellis: Gone to Amistad? Mildred Rousseve: And they went to Xavier and they went to Amistad. I think I have a paper. You better take this off. Kate Ellis: Okay. Mildred Rousseve: So I can get the paper of the man who knew all about the integration at that time. Kate Ellis: Do you mean in the '50s or the '60s or— Mildred Rousseve: Uh-huh, when they started. Kate Ellis: I don't want you to— Mildred Rousseve: I won't step on it. Kate Ellis: Well, you can step on it, I just don't want you to trip. Mildred Rousseve: No, I won't step on it. Kate Ellis: Okay. Mildred Rousseve: Take a mint then, that's nice for you. Kate Ellis: That's okay. I'm fine. That juice was perfect. Mildred Rousseve: All right. Kate Ellis: So here we are back again an hour later. Mildred Rousseve: Yes. Kate Ellis: Let me collect my thoughts for a minute. Well, there are a couple things that we talked about while we were looking through photographs that I'd love to follow up on, on tape. Mildred Rousseve: What are they? Kate Ellis: One thing we've been talking about today to some extent are the different shades of people in your family, in Mr. Rousseve's family. And you were mentioning that you knew of people who were so light-skinned that they moved to California. Mildred Rousseve: Yes. Kate Ellis: And went for White. Mildred Rousseve: Yeah. And they're on the other side. I have a friend out at the nursing home, she was a music supervisor here in the city for years and years. And she had three or four sisters. And they all went away from here, went to California, to pass for White. And they've given her up, they don't go to see her anymore. They don't even come down here. Yes. A lot of them went to California. Don't you tell them I said it? Kate Ellis: I won't. Yeah. Because they obviously wouldn't want their— Mildred Rousseve: Identity known. Kate Ellis: — identity known. Mildred Rousseve: But she's out of the nursing home now. Kate Ellis: Why didn't she go for White? Is she something— Mildred Rousseve: She was doing, she was working here. She was a supervisor of music in the system. And she'd leave her job. Kate Ellis: Was she light-skinned as well? Could she have done that? Mildred Rousseve: Yes she was. She could have. Kate Ellis: And she chose not to. Mildred Rousseve: At that time, yes. Kate Ellis: When was that, when you say at that time? Mildred Rousseve: But her other sister, Robin, looked just like White. And she was married to a man, Mr. Minor, he looked just like White. Kate Ellis: So they moved to California together? Mildred Rousseve: Yeah. Kate Ellis: Around, could you say that was in the '50s or the '60s or the '40s or what? The— Mildred Rousseve: '50s. Kate Ellis: And what did people say about that when that happened? Mildred Rousseve: They didn't say anything. When they found out, they just went. Kate Ellis: They would just leave. Mildred Rousseve: They out there. They just left. They didn't say what they were going to do. But that's what they did. Kate Ellis: What do you think of their decision to do that? Mildred Rousseve: Well, I thought it was wrong because I could have done it too at that time, because I was fairer than I am now. But I didn't want to give up my mother and give my stepbrothers and sisters that I had from when my mother remarried. I couldn't give them up. I'm too loyal to my family to do that. I couldn't do that. Kate Ellis: You were saying that Mr. Rousseve was really proud of his Black identity. Mildred Rousseve: He was. He was. He belonged to the NAACP. He joined. And so was his father, they joined every Black movement that came. Kate Ellis: Really? Mildred Rousseve: Mm-hmm. He was. He was very proud of his NAACP, because they worked for the Blacks. Kate Ellis: They worked for— Mildred Rousseve: They wanted recognition, you see? Kate Ellis: You mean they wanted recognition— Mildred Rousseve: What did you say before? What came on before? Before something started? Kate Ellis: Before the civil rights— Mildred Rousseve: Yes. Kate Ellis: — movement started. Mildred Rousseve: Yes. That's what I wanted to say. Civil rights movement. Kate Ellis: You're saying the NAACP— Mildred Rousseve: Yeah. Kate Ellis: — worked for Blacks— Mildred Rousseve: Yes. Kate Ellis: — before the civil rights movement. Mildred Rousseve: Yeah, before that. Yeah. His father was the one who worked for Blacks too. Kate Ellis: Did he? Mildred Rousseve: Yes. Kate Ellis: What did he do? Mildred Rousseve: Well, he was in an association, you see? And that's how they work. Kate Ellis: What do you mean? Mildred Rousseve: You can't get anything unless you have a group of people who are going to agree to you with those things. You see? That's what he did. Kate Ellis: So his father would organize Black people? Mildred Rousseve: He was with the group. I don't say that he'd organize Black people, but he was with them. Those men you saw in that thing, they were all fair in that paper, they were working for civil rights. Kate Ellis: In that history of, that Black History in Louisiana paper? Mildred Rousseve: That I showed you. Yes. Kate Ellis: Right. That Mr. Rousseve had stayed? Mildred Rousseve: Yes. Kate Ellis: They were all working for Black people. Mildred Rousseve: All working for Blacks. Yes. Kate Ellis: And that was important to you and important— Mildred Rousseve: Yes. Kate Ellis: — to Mr. Rousseve. Mildred Rousseve: Very important to me. Now, when my grandmother died, my mother remarried. I told you I was being taken care of by my grandmother and the lady who lived with her, and they were taking care of us. And she was working. And she died. She was working as a cook— Kate Ellis: Your grandmother was? Mildred Rousseve: — for wealthy people. My grandmother was. And they came and said she had died in this doctor's home. And he thought a lot of my grandmother and gave us a lot of money when she died. Well, anyway, later on, the gentleman across the street, his name with Mr. Granderson, he had never married. And he knew my mother was alone. My mother was still pretty. And he knew that she was alone and she needed help. And she had these two children, she had Mildred, and she had Charles, and she had Harold, by my father. But he asked to marry her and he married her. And from his marriage to my mother, they had three children. Everett, John, and Clara. Kate Ellis: What year was that around? About how old were you when they got married? Mildred Rousseve: Now how old? I really don't know now. No, wait, let me see. Kate Ellis: Oh, I could say, were you in elementary school or in high school? Mildred Rousseve: I was in elementary school. Kate Ellis: Okay. But so just to get a general. Mildred Rousseve: Yeah. I was in elementary school and he married my mother. And so he used to pay my car fare down to the school to 35, 'cause I didn't walk down there. But I walked home in the evening. But he gave us a good living. He bought us a good house. And when I started teaching, when I finished high school and I started teaching, I mean, the normal, and everybody wanted me to come and live with them. And I didn't want to live with them because I had my stepfather who had taken care of me. And so I stayed there until I married. And that's what I wanted to do. Kate Ellis: Was to stay with them until you— Mildred Rousseve: Huh? Kate Ellis: Was to stay with your family until you got married? Mildred Rousseve: Yes. It was the only family I knew. Kate Ellis: Sounds like he was a good man. Mildred Rousseve: Very good. And the children were good children. I stayed there long enough to help to send my oldest brother to college. He went to New Orleans University. And that's why I sort of reluctantly didn't want to marry, because my brother wasn't going to go back to school. Kate Ellis: You mean if you had left— Mildred Rousseve: To college. Yes. Kate Ellis: — Oh, because you would stop providing income? Mildred Rousseve: Yes. Provided his tuition up at the New Orleans University. Kate Ellis: So what happened when you did get married? Did he actually stop going to college? Mildred Rousseve: He did. But he became a mail carrier, a postman. And he had a good living. So he turned out all right. Kate Ellis: Did you have people in your neighborhood who you had ever noticed passing for White? Mildred Rousseve: No. Not at that time. When I was a girl, no. Kate Ellis: What about when you were, I don't know, in your twenties or when you were teaching? Mildred Rousseve: Oh, yes. So a lot of them at that time. But you said nothing about it, you didn't know what they were going to California for, but later we learned why they were there. Kate Ellis: What about people— I heard about people who, as I'm sure you well know, there were jobs that Black people could have say in department stores if they passed for Whites. Mildred Rousseve: They did. Kate Ellis: And they'd lead a double life in a sense. Mildred Rousseve: They did. That was true. Kate Ellis: And how would you interact with them if you knew? Mildred Rousseve: Well, I had a friend who was very fair, Rachel Adams. And she worked as White. And I'd meet her on Canal Street and we'd both go to the show for Whites. Kate Ellis: Oh, really? Mildred Rousseve: And they would never know. Kate Ellis: Like the movie theater? Mildred Rousseve: Yes. And when it was time to go home, she would go up and sit in front the screen and I'd sit behind, but we didn't care. Kate Ellis: Now, why would you sit behind and her in front if you both could pass for White going into the theater? Mildred Rousseve: Well, I wasn't passing for White, but Rachel had a job as White, and so she had to sit above the screen. Kate Ellis: Oh, otherwise they would've found out? Mildred Rousseve: Yes. Kate Ellis: And would you pretend to not know each other on the— Mildred Rousseve: We didn't talk. Kate Ellis: — when you got on the train. Mildred Rousseve: Yeah. Kate Ellis: So it was sort of your little secret. Mildred Rousseve: And she made my dress when I married Mr. Rousseve. Kate Ellis: Oh, really? But when you said that you'd go to the show, you'd go into the White section together. Mildred Rousseve: Yes. Kate Ellis: And nobody stopped you. Mildred Rousseve: Nobody knew. Kate Ellis: Right. Sounds like that was something, and many people did if they could. Mildred Rousseve: They did. Many people did. Kate Ellis: And it was sort of— Sounds like a lot of times it was sort of unspoken. Mildred Rousseve: Yeah. It was. It was. Kate Ellis: That people, you were just kind of subtle. Mildred Rousseve: Right. Kate Ellis: You mentioned earlier when we were talking that the one time when there was a girl who was darker than you, who came and— Did she pull your hair? Mildred Rousseve: Yes. Kate Ellis: And so maybe she resented. Mildred Rousseve: She did. Kate Ellis: Do you think that there— Mildred Rousseve: But later she became my friend. Kate Ellis: Really? Mildred Rousseve: Yes. Kate Ellis: Do you think that there were times when there was resentment among people who were darker who couldn't pass? Mildred Rousseve: Oh, yes. I know there was. I know that. Yes, there was resentment. Kate Ellis: How would that be expressed? How did that show itself? Mildred Rousseve: Oh, just in meanness, or not speak to them or not want to, certain things. Kate Ellis: What do you mean? Mildred Rousseve: Just didn't want to be friends with them. Kate Ellis: So meaning you mean the darker skinned wouldn't want to be friends with— Did you think that sometimes, like did the lighter skinned people tend to keep more to themselves? Mildred Rousseve: Sometimes. Kate Ellis: And the darker skinned kept— Mildred Rousseve: Sometimes. But it didn't prevent people from doing well. It didn't prevent them from becoming educated. You see the Perrys, their mother was very fair, Mrs. Perry, Lillian Perry and the twins and all of them. And all of them were educated. It didn't harm us. It didn't harm me one bit. Kate Ellis: Right. Yeah. Mildred Rousseve: Yes, they were. But I was friendly with everybody, Whites and Black. And my mother told me to be good to everybody, and I would get along and I did. I spoke to everybody. Talked to everybody. We had White neighbors at one time. We have a White neighbor right now, right next door. Kate Ellis: Oh, really? Mildred Rousseve: She's still there. Ms. Swab, and one across the street. And we're on speaking terms, we're just as nice. They wouldn't think of moving from there. Kate Ellis: Yeah. Sounds like there are some neighborhoods where Whites did move. Mildred Rousseve: Yes, they did. Now, when we moved here, more than 25 years ago, they were living next door, had been there. They started this settlement. Her father planted those trees out there, those oak trees, because he worked at Parkway Commission and they were all White. And they became friends with us, you can't imagine. He came in our yard and planted rose gardens, planted trees around the walk. They were lovely people. Kate Ellis: Well— Mildred Rousseve: We all alike. Kate Ellis: Yeah. No, I mean, of course it goes without saying, I believe you and I agree with you. It also sounds, just from what you're saying, that sometimes you wouldn't necessarily always expect that from White people. Mildred Rousseve: No. Kate Ellis: That sometimes, I mean, you said earlier that you knew not to go to some White neighborhoods because you'd be insulted— Mildred Rousseve: Yes. Kate Ellis: — if you went there. And I know that despite that, and despite knowing that, I know that it sounds to me that you've had a lovely life. Mildred Rousseve: I have. Kate Ellis: So I'm not— Mildred Rousseve: I have. Kate Ellis: — I'm not here to have you tell me, "Oh—" Mildred Rousseve: No. No. Kate Ellis: — "My life was ruined because of racism." Mildred Rousseve: Oh, no. I didn't think about it. Kate Ellis: Really? Mildred Rousseve: I got everything I should have had in life. My mother couldn't provide me. I didn't have a Christmas tree until I married. Kate Ellis: Really? Mildred Rousseve: But I had other toys. And I got those toys, it was the doll and toy fund that they had here every year in New Orleans. Kate Ellis: What's it called? Doll— Mildred Rousseve: Doll and toy fund. People give to that here every Christmas, to give poor children the toys that they would like to have. Kate Ellis: And so you— Mildred Rousseve: I was one of those children. Yes. We got toys. And I didn't know where they came from and didn't worry about it. Kate Ellis: You got toys. Mildred Rousseve: A beautiful doll. Yes. And this old lady who helped my grandmother take care of us, she was lovely to me. Aunt Tom, we called her. Kate Ellis: Oh, the one that you lived— What did you call, Aunt Tom? Mildred Rousseve: Her name was Thompson. Kate Ellis: Oh. Mildred Rousseve: And we used to call Aunt Tom. Kate Ellis: I see. Mildred Rousseve: I've had a very good life. Very good. And if I had to do it over again, I'd be happy to do it over again. I came in contact with good people. I came in contact with people who loved me. Maybe there were some people who didn't. Maybe there were some people who were jealous of me, but I didn't care. Didn't worry me, I didn't know they were jealous of me. I didn't know that. But I have had a very good life. And when I married Mr. Rousseve, Mr. Granderson, my stepfather came to visit me. He gave me away as a bride. Kate Ellis: Did he? Mildred Rousseve: And I was happy to have him do so. I didn't miss anything. Kate Ellis: Yeah. No, that's— Mildred Rousseve: I didn't have a big house. My mother didn't have a big home like this, and neither did we, when we first married. But we were living in Rousseve's home over on Columbus Street. If I had time, I'd take you and show you the house, it's right by McDonogh 35 school. Kate Ellis: On Columbus Street. So the house that he grew up in? Mildred Rousseve: Yeah. Kate Ellis: So that's where you lived first, and then eventually you moved? Mildred Rousseve: Yeah. No, not here. We moved on Humanity Street. We built a house on Humanity Street. Kate Ellis: And then from there you moved here? Mildred Rousseve: Yes. Kate Ellis: Okay. Did you ever live outside of New Orleans? Mildred Rousseve: Never. Kate Ellis: No. Did you travel much? Mildred Rousseve: I did after we married. Yes. Kate Ellis: Where did you travel? Mildred Rousseve: Oh, one year, Mr. Rousseve went to school at the University of Chicago. And his last month there, my daughter and I went and spent two weeks with him and then came home with him. And then we went to see Ferdinand when he—